Hyperfixed – "Garbage Fruit [Or, The Fruit of Theseus]"

Date: September 25, 2025
Host: Alex Goldman
Featuring: Emma Cortland, Robin (podcast producer), David Karp (pomologist), Matt Vela (hospitality tech CEO), Margie (Emma's cousin)

Episode Overview

This episode of Hyperfixed investigates a mystery familiar to anyone who’s spent time in hotel lobbies or conference rooms: Why are Red Delicious apples—an apple almost universally regarded as flavorless and mealy—so often the fruit of choice in these spaces? Listener Robin, herself a podcast producer, suspects a government/industry conspiracy, but host Alex Goldman and the Hyperfixed team set out to uncover the real story behind the Red Delicious apple’s ubiquity and decline—and in doing so, discover a tale of failed marketing, unintentional genetic meddling, and a fruit forever changed.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Question: Why Are Red Delicious Apples Everywhere?

• Robin’s Theory & Annoyance

  • Robin expresses a conspiratorial suspicion about Red Delicious apples, noting they're so widely available for free, yet almost nobody actually likes them.
  • “There is something that feels so conspiratorial about Red Delicious apples...they sort of just happen to you, and you always get them for free.” (Robin, 03:18)
  • She half-jokingly speculates government played a role in their spread to support both “Big Apple” and roadside travelers.

• Alex & Emma’s Initial Investigations

  • Both echo the question: who is actually buying these apples and why, since everyone considers them subpar?
  • “Who’s buying them?…Are people eating these under duress? Are they truly eating them out of a perverse pleasure or utility?” (Emma Cortland, 06:20)

2. The (Unflattering) Rise and Fall of Red Delicious

• The Origins: A Fruit Once Worth Eating

  • Pomologist David Karp introduces the story behind the “Hawkeye” apple—from an accident in Iowa to a prized, aromatic, delicious fruit.
  • “The original Hawkeye Red Delicious was indeed delicious. It was highly aromatic…tasted great.” (David Karp, 09:12)
  • The Stark Brothers nursery successfully marketed the variety nationwide in the 1920s, and its versatility made it extremely popular.
  • “In many ways, the original Red Delicious was the Platonic ideal of an apple.” (Alex Goldman, 12:30)

• The Shift: Selection for Looks Over Flavor

  • As demand grew, shoppers selected the reddest apples available. Growers responded by propagating “sports”—genetic mutations for deeper red color.
  • Unbeknownst to them, the desirable traits for flavor and aroma were genetically linked to variegated (less red) skin.
  • “Every time a farmer would graft a newer, redder sport, the apples it produced would be a little less sweet.” (Alex Goldman, 16:30)
  • Multiple generations of increasingly red apples led to a product that looked great but tasted worse and worse.
  • “You ended up with something that was considerably less delicious, undermining its name and a poster child for specious commercial fruit.” (David Karp, 17:20)
  • Once the apple’s reputation nosedived, supply outstripped demand, and surplus apples ended up in places where quality didn’t matter.

• Industry Consequences and a Historic Bailout

  • By 2000, the collapse in demand led to a $760 million government bailout for apple growers.
  • “Nobody should feel sorry for us. We did this to ourselves.” (New York Times quote, paraphrased by Alex Goldman, 18:34)

• Who’s to Blame? Economics, Not Conspiracy

  • The incentives rewarded color, not quality.
  • “Bad money drives out good, and so this is bad fruit drives out good…You cannot blame them for selecting the red strains…had to make the economic decision to plant what enabled them to survive, and they did so.” (David Karp, 19:57)

3. Hotels, Apples, and the Illusion of Hospitality

• Why Offer Apples at All?

  • If Red Delicious is so bad, why not offer nothing?
  • Enter Matt Vela, hospitality tech CEO:
    • The apples are not really intended to be eaten; they are largely there as decor—a low-cost way to imply hospitality.
    • “If I put an apple out, at least we've done the hospitality thing…And if no one eats them, we save costs…I can recycle that apple for five guests…” (Matt Vela, 30:38)
    • The decision most often comes from accountants, not hosts: it's done to check a hospitality box more than delight guests.

• “Garbage Fruit” as Concept, Not Consumable

  • The Red Delicious in hotel lobbies has become a symbol—“the concept of hospitality”—not a sincere offering.
  • “It is confirmed true. All style, no substance. These apples.” (Emma Cortland, 33:33)

4. The “Ship of Theseus” Apple and a Taste of the Past

• The Final Revelation:
  • The Red Delicious apple epitomizes the Ship of Theseus paradox: continually modified for appearance until nothing of its original remained but the name.
  • Yet, you can still find a taste of history—if you look hard enough.
  • Emma’s cousin Margie visits a farmer’s market and tries one of the original “Hawkeye” apples.
    • Her verdict: “It does not taste like a trash apple. It tastes like a good apple. Fuck, yeah. Fuck, yeah.” (Margie, 35:13)
  • Emma is delighted by this discovery: “Wow, guys, I am so tickled. I’m charmed. I love this.” (35:26)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It looks like the Snow White apple. Death is hot.” (Emma Cortland, 07:19, as the group jokes about the Red Delicious aesthetic)
• “That's like anti-hospitality…putting these out on the bet that more people won't eat them than will.” (Alex Goldman, 31:14)
• “Hyperfixed is produced and edited by Emma Cortland Amore Yates and Sari Sofer Sukanek…We cannot exist without your problems. So if you have problems that you need solved by us, please submit them…thanks so much for listening.” (Alex Goldman, 36:04)
• “Have you ever heard of Gresham's Law?...Bad money drives out good, and so this is bad fruit drives out good.” (David Karp, 19:57)
• “These Red Delicious apples we've experienced in our lifetime, they're like the myth about the ship of Theseus…growers stripped the fruit of everything that made it great…then slapped some shiny red paint on the side.” (Alex Goldman, 32:27)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:18] Robin asks: “What’s the deal with Red Delicious apples?” Conspiracy suspicions aired.
• [09:12] David Karp recounts the actual origins of Red Delicious apples.
• [13:51] The genetics of selecting for color and its detrimental impact on taste.
• [17:20] How selection led to "specious fruit"—the beginning of the end.
• [18:34] The apple industry bailout and self-blame.
• [19:57] Explanation of Gresham’s Law as applied to fruit.
• [30:38] Matt Vela explains why hotels use Red Delicious apples as decor.
• [35:00] Margie, Emma’s cousin, tastes an actual Hawkeye apple: “It tastes like a good apple.”
• [36:04] Episode credits and call for listener problems.

Episode Tone & Takeaways

The episode is humorous, mildly irreverent, and genuinely curious in tone. Alex and team balance skepticism about conspiracies with a willingness to dig deep for the real, often less dramatic answer. The result is as much a tale of marketing, economics, and unintended consequences as a quirky fruit mystery. The story ends on a hopeful note: if you seek out the old varieties, you can still reclaim a taste of what once made the Red Delicious apple so aptly named.

For more fun mysteries and solutions, visit hyperfixedpod.com.