All In Your Head | 2

Summary

Hysterical: Episode 2 - "All In Your Head"

Host: Dan Tabersky
Release Date: July 22, 2024
Produced by: Wondery | Pineapple Street Studios

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Introduction: Leroy’s Plight and Community Tensions

Dan Tabersky opens the episode by revisiting the unsettling situation in Leroy, New York, where a group of high school girls has been experiencing mysterious and severe symptoms. The community is grappling with fear and uncertainty, leading to widespread speculation about the cause of these sudden health issues.

Notable Quote:

"There's a mystery in Leroy that no one seems to be able to solve."
— Kathy Dunn [09:37]

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The Emergence of Symptoms and Initial Reactions

The outbreak began in the fall of 2011, initially affecting students involved in extracurricular activities such as soccer, cheerleading, marching band, and track. Symptoms included uncontrolled jerks, verbal tics, and other motor disorders, sparking concern among parents who frequented the sidelines of their children's activities.

Notable Quote:

"What is going on with these girls?"
— Dan Tabersky [02:36]

Kathy Dunn, a local mother, recalls her realization that the symptoms were not isolated incidents but a growing trend impacting multiple students, including her daughters.

Notable Quote:

"I just kept thinking, what's going on? I didn't have any clue. There's gotta be an answer."
— Kathy Dunn [09:37]

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Investigation by Local Health Authorities

As the number of affected students increased, Dr. Greg Young, a neurologist with the New York State Department of Health, was tasked with uncovering the cause. The investigative team conducted extensive testing, including blood work, environmental assessments, and air quality tests, but initially found no physical or environmental causes.

Notable Quote:

"We really went through everything, and I knew what the diagnosis was."
— Dr. Greg Young [16:23]

Despite these efforts, Dr. Young remained confident in his diagnosis, which he presented to a concerned town meeting without divulging specifics, citing patient privacy and ethical considerations.

Notable Quote:

"We've looked at the infectious disease side of it, and there is no infection among these children."
— Dr. Greg Young [17:02]

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Diagnosis of Conversion Disorder

At the January 11, 2012 town meeting, Dr. Young officially disclosed that the girls were suffering from conversion disorder, a form of mass psychogenic illness. This diagnosis suggests that psychological stress is manifesting as physical symptoms, a controversial conclusion that left many parents skeptical and distressed.

Notable Quote:

"Conversion disorder is real, but it can be a bear to wrap your mind around."
— Narrator [19:11]

Conversion disorder, characterized by neurological symptoms without an organic cause, was likened to historical cases such as the Salem Witch Trials, where similar mass hysteria was misinterpreted as demonic possession.

Notable Quote:

"Mass psychogenic illness happens overwhelmingly to girls. No one's quite sure why."
— Dan Tabersky [24:13]

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Community Backlash and Skepticism

The announcement of conversion disorder as the diagnosis was met with outrage and disbelief. Parents like Kathy Dunn found it hard to accept that their children's severe symptoms were "all in their heads," leading to mistrust towards the medical authorities and the school.

Notable Quote:

"I thought that's bullshit. You're just gonna withhold all this information from us."
— Kathy Dunn [17:43]

Parents questioned the thoroughness of the investigation and the motives behind the diagnosis, suspecting a possible cover-up or negligence by the school and health officials.

Notable Quote:

"I don't believe that. There's just no way."
— Kathy Dunn [27:25]

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Alternative Theories and Ongoing Mystery

Amid the skepticism, alternative theories emerged. One such theory suggested ergot poisoning, a possibility linked to ryegrass on the athletic fields, known to release toxins under specific weather conditions. However, this remained speculative, as no concrete evidence supported it.

Notable Quote:

"Ergot, often grows on ryegrass, and in certain weather conditions, rainy, damp, cool."
— Narrator [33:16]

The presence of an orange ooze on the athletic fields and recurring flooding added layers of mystery, hinting at potential environmental factors that might have been overlooked or inadequately investigated.

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Expanding the Scope of the Illness

As the investigation unfolded, reports indicated that the mysterious illness was beginning to affect others outside the initial group of high school girls, including a 36-year-old woman. This development suggested that the condition might not be confined to a single social group, challenging the initial diagnosis of mass psychogenic illness.

Notable Quote:

"Some people would go as far to say there's a cover-up."
— Howard Owens [28:01]

The expansion of symptoms beyond the original cohort raised questions about the true nature of the illness, leaving the community in a state of heightened anxiety and uncertainty.

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Conclusion: An Unresolved Enigma

Episode 2 of Hysterical delves deep into the complexities surrounding the mysterious illness in Leroy, NY. The diagnosis of conversion disorder as a mass psychogenic illness offered a plausible explanation but failed to quell the fears and suspicions of the affected families. As new cases emerge, the mystery thickens, compelling listeners to ponder the intricate interplay between mind and body, and the challenges in deciphering unexplained medical phenomena.

Notable Quote:

"In our latest series, media mogul Ted Turner launches a 24 hour channel dedicated... but CNN doesn't just shake up the television industry."
— Dan Tabersky [20:50] (Note: This quote references an advertisement and is included here for contextual understanding of the transcript but is not directly related to the episode's content.)

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Key Takeaways

• Mass Psychogenic Illness: The case in Leroy highlights the phenomenon where psychological stress manifests as physical symptoms, particularly in tightly-knit social groups.

• Community Trust: The diagnosis strained the relationship between parents and health authorities, underscoring the importance of transparent communication during public health crises.

• Ongoing Mystery: The emergence of new cases beyond the initial group suggests that the true cause remains elusive, keeping the mystery alive and challenging existing theories.

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Produced by:

• Lead Producer: Henry Maloski
• Associate Producers: Marie Alexa Kavanagh, Sophie Bridges
• Managing Producer: Erin Kelly
• Senior Producer: Lena Masitzis
• Additional Production: Zandra Ellen
• Editor: Diane Hodson
• Executive Editor: Joel Lovell
• Fact Checking: Natsume Ajisaka
• Mixing: Hannis Brown
• Sound and Engineering: Raj Makhija
• Original Music: Dina Maccabee
• Legal Services: Crystal Tupia

Executive Producers:

• Pineapple Street Studios: Max Linsky, Henry Malofsky, Asha Saludja, Jenna Weiss Berman
• Wondery: Morgan Jones, Marshall Louie, Jen Sargent

Written and Executive Produced by:

• Dan Taberski

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For more insights and detailed investigations, listen to all episodes of Hysterical on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts.

Transcript

[Dan Tabursky]

Wondery subscribers can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad free. Join Wonder in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Hey, everyone, it's Dan. I have an exciting announcement to share with everyone. Hysterical has been named the Apple Podcast's show of the Year. It's a recognition given to just one show that demonstrates quality and innovation in podcasting. The editors over at Apple Podcasts called our show an impeccably crafted and creatively structured investigation that sets a new standard for immersive audience experiences. And if you can't tell by the sound of my voice, I'm blushing. We really are so honored and so appreciative for the recognition and that you are here to listen to the show that we're really proud of. Thanks for listening. Now onto the show. Previously on Hysterical.

[Kathy Dunn]

I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like, stuttering super bad. I'm like, stop fucking around. She's like, I can't. So by the third one, I'm having concerns. We heard a lot of like a yipping sound, a screeching sound. I even heard like a cat meowing.

[Dan Tabursky]

Were you thinking that other people were faking it?

[Kathy Dunn]

Yeah, but that, like, I figured out later on, I was like, oh, I'm so sorry that I thought that about you, because here I am and we're in the same boat now. Girl.

[Dan Tabursky]

Where did you grow up?

[Kathy Dunn]

Right here in Genesee County. I went to Byron Burgeon, which is a tiny combined school one town over from Leroy.

[Dan Tabursky]

I'm in Leroy, New York, sitting in the living room of Kathy Dunn. And before I explain who Kathy is, let's just get the white hot controversy out of the way. How come some people say Leroy, the.

[Kathy Dunn]

Richer people call it Leroy because they want to sound classy and elegant is almost like. And then just regular working class, blue collar people call it Leroy.

[Dan Tabursky]

In the fall of 2011, Kathy was a full time mom raising two kids, two daughters, both of whom were attending Leroy Junior Senior High School and a score. Her oldest, Amy was a sophomore and played on the junior varsity soccer team. Kathy go to the games all the time.

[Kathy Dunn]

Yeah, I mean, you know, the parents sitting on the sidelines. You sit in your little folding chairs while the kids are playing and you're chatting.

[Dan Tabursky]

Lately, though, the sideline chit chat was being consumed by one chit in particular.

[Kathy Dunn]

That little, you know, parent talk. And it's like, what's going on with these girls?

[Dan Tabursky]

You know, what's going on with these girls was becoming the question of the Season still kind of whispered, but getting louder.

[Kathy Dunn]

There was a lot going on with these girls having what we were saying as having outbursts.

[Dan Tabursky]

It wasn't, what are you seeing? What are you hearing?

[Kathy Dunn]

A lot of verbal. A lot of verbal ticcing, where things, you know, like, maybe just a holler, a yell. And you didn't think much of it if it was one girl.

[Dan Tabursky]

Remember, there already was someone with Tourette syndrome in the school. So till now, the occasional tic was less a reason to freak out and more just like a, well, there goes so and so.

[Kathy Dunn]

Yeah, it was kind of like, you know, oh, well, that girl has blonde hair. Well, this one has a verbal tic once in a while.

[Dan Tabursky]

But then that started to change.

[Kathy Dunn]

So it didn't become anything noticeable until it was more than a couple girls. Then all of a sudden, it's like, wait a minute.

[Dan Tabursky]

So after watching her daughter Amy play soccer week after week as her teammate's symptoms worsened, it was a surprise when it was Kathy's younger daughter, Emily, who eventually came down with the symptoms.

[Kathy Dunn]

Yeah, it was. The school nurse called me and said that Emily had been in her office that day because they had noticed that she was starting to do some physical, like, head ticcing. I didn't think that it was gonna affect me. And then it did.

[Dan Tabursky]

Emily, you'll remember her from last time. Just an 8th grader when her symptoms started. For her, it was uncontrolled jerks of her head and arm. Do you start to even question yourself? Like, is this real?

[Kathy Dunn]

Oh, yeah. I had moments. I was like, is this. Is this even a thing? Let me see if I can stop doing it. Let me see.

[Dan Tabursky]

You see. You would try to, like, sit still?

[Kathy Dunn]

Oh, yeah. I'd try to sit there for, like, five minutes and sit still. Couldn't do it.

[Dan Tabursky]

Here I am again with Kathy, her mom. I feel like if I had come home with tics, I feel like my mother's first instinct would have been like, what are you up to? Like, a little suspicious. Not because she doesn't trust me.

[Kathy Dunn]

I mean, yeah, of course I was a little bit, because, you know, kids are kids, and, you know, you don't know. She was always an odd girl anyway. She was already an odd one out. So everybody in town had been saying, oh, a lot of these girls are faking it. They're doing it for attention. So I just kind of thought maybe. Maybe she could. Who knows?

[Dan Tabursky]

Kathy asked her older daughter Amy, what she thought.

[Kathy Dunn]

I just said, what do you think? Do you think she's faking and she's like, I don't know.

[Dan Tabursky]

So that evening when Emily came home from class, Kathie played dumb.

[Kathy Dunn]

I didn't say anything to her about it. I didn't say, hey, the school called and said, you're doing this. I wanted to kind of see if she would still do it outside of school.

[Dan Tabursky]

And she observed to see if Emily would tic when she thought that no one was watching. With no audience, nothing to gain, and there sitting in front of the tv, zoning out alone with whatever rerun flickering in front of her, Emily did it.

[Kathy Dunn]

I don't know how you explain that. Kind of turning her head, a head jerk kind of thing.

[Dan Tabursky]

And then she did it again and again, plain as day. Whatever was causing these symptoms that Kathy had been watching spread from her folding chair on the sidelines, had now spread to her own kid.

[Kathy Dunn]

Okay, so this is something. This is for real. This is happening.

[Dan Tabursky]

I'm Dan Tabursky from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios. This is hysterical. Episode 2 All in youn Head if.

[Dr. Greg Young]

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[Dan Tabursky]

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[Dr. Greg Young]

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[Dan Tabursky]

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[Dr. Greg Young]

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[Dan Tabursky]

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[Dr. Greg Young]

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[Kathy Dunn]

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[Dr. Greg Young]

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[Dan Tabursky]

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[Dr. Greg Young]

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[Dan Tabursky]

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[Kathy Dunn]

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[Dan Tabursky]

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[Kathy Dunn]

I work on a news show.

[Dan Tabursky]

And yeah, the news can feel like a lot on any given day, but.

[Kathy Dunn]

You just can't ignore la noticias when.

[Dan Tabursky]

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[Kathy Dunn]

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[Dan Tabursky]

We take the news and boil it down to three essential stories. Listen to the Upverse Podcast from npr. A few years ago, I was walking my dog down Irving Place in Manhattan. Billy was an old geezer by then. A grade A Ass dragger. And we come to a corner, and he's sniffing at this trash can, and I notice there's smoke coming out of it. Probably a flicked cigarette that didn't go out. But it's becoming a proper little fire. I can see flames now, And a couple other rubberneckers notice now, too, and little bits of trash fire are falling off the sides. I look at the guy next to me, and he looks at the fire, then back at me, and I look at the fire, and I look at Billy, and Billy looks at me like, don't look at me. And all of us just kind of standing there wondering if someone should, you know, do something. How do you know? And who decides When a scene goes from being just an oddity, a thing to gawk at and exchange glances about to the level where someone finally pulls the fire alarm. As the weather grew colder in Leroy that fall, the symptoms continued to come to life. A thrashing junior one week, a couple sophomores the next. An irregular heartbeat finding its rhythm, but all still unofficial. The school's not talking about it publicly. The town isn't acknowledging it. Parents are just kind of watching this thing happens.

[Kathy Dunn]

I just kept thinking, what's going on? I didn't have any clue. I just was like, there's gotta be an answer. There's gotta be something at the root, you know, what's the common denominator? Was Basically all I kept thinking is, what's the common denominator here?

[Dan Tabursky]

The soccer moms and dads would hash out theories on the sideline.

[Kathy Dunn]

And I remember us, very casual conversation, hmm. What's the coach doing to these girls? Are they stressed out? What's going on?

[Dan Tabursky]

One of the first students to fall ill was on the soccer team. So at first there was some suspicion that maybe the coach was pushing them too hard.

[Kathy Dunn]

But then maybe a few weeks later, then it's another girl. Well, she's not on the soccer team. What's going on with her?

[Dan Tabursky]

In fact, that first girl was also on the cheerleading squad. And three weeks later, her best friend on the squad came down with symptoms.

[Kathy Dunn]

You know, it was almost like making this little spreadsheet, okay, well, this girl's in this grade, and she does this activity.

[Dan Tabursky]

And as the sound of ticks and barks grew louder in the school, some began to see patterns.

[Kathy Dunn]

I felt like kids in marching band, some soccer players, and kids in track.

[Dan Tabursky]

Mr. Mihalik, the band teacher, was a.

[Kathy Dunn]

Lot of the same kids were involved in those same activities. I thought it had to be something to do with the school or the school grounds only because that was the only thing everybody had in common is they went to the same school and they were female.

[Dan Tabursky]

The focus for some turned to the athletic fields where the kids played and practiced. The fields become notorious for being repeatedly soaked with floodwater from heavy rains. There would even be complaints from students about an orange ooze coming up from the grass there that stuck to their sneakers and clothes. Then there was the question of why just girls so far?

[Kathy Dunn]

At first it was whispers. It was like, oh, it's this one girl. Like, we don't know what's going on, like, blah, blah, blah. And the next thing I know, it's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[Dan Tabursky]

This is Rose, another eighth grader at Leroy that year.

[Kathy Dunn]

I remember hearing at some point, since it was all girls, it must be a bad batch of tampons. And I'm just like, what?

[Dan Tabursky]

Jessica, a senior, was also like, what?

[Kathy Dunn]

Because, like, if it was like the tampons and like the things at school, like, nobody even uses those. So, like, I don't think that one makes sense, really.

[Dan Tabursky]

Did the school give you sort of marching orders about how to deal with this?

[Kathy Dunn]

Yeah, yeah, they said, like, you know, we're handling it, and they basically just wanted everybody to keep quiet. There's a mystery in Leroy that no one seems to be able to solve.

[Dan Tabursky]

In November, one of the girls finally goes public with her symptoms on local news. But she hides her identity. She's backlit by the setting sun, so you just see her silhouette.

[Kathy Dunn]

This is my 8th or 9th day straight tic gang and doesn't stop. For 17 year old Mikayla, as we've chosen to call her, sleeping is the only form of relief she has from the uncontrollable tics that constantly shake her head.

[Dan Tabursky]

Meanwhile, at dent neurologic, as Dr. McVig tries to narrow in on the source of it all, her waiting room is starting to become unmanageable.

[Kathy Dunn]

Flash to When I have patients that I'm seeing that are having the same symptoms and I've got to get them all into the office, and I probably shouldn't have them in the waiting room or in the back at the same.

[Dan Tabursky]

Time, again, patient privacy becomes an issue.

[Kathy Dunn]

Because we have the same vocalizations and barking and things like that. And so, you know, they can identify each other because they know the sound and they also exacerbate each other.

[Dan Tabursky]

Bringing two or more patients together, it seemed, was making the symptoms of each patient worse.

[Kathy Dunn]

So as soon as somebody starts vocalizing the Other person starts vocalizing. Then I have patients with migraine that are sitting there like, oh, my Lord.

[Dan Tabursky]

On November 4, 2011, about seven weeks after the symptoms first appeared, the superintendent posts a letter on the school district website. Quote, we've had some questions about a group of students in our district that have developed what appears to be Tourette like symptoms. We are taking this issue seriously. And you get the gist. The fire alarm had finally been pulled.

[Dr. Greg Young]

So they came to me because they knew I was a practicing doc. They knew I knew the area. They knew I was comfortable. And that's just their clock.

[Dan Tabursky]

Okay, let me just wait till it's done so we can hear you. When state health officials were alerted as to what was happening and how it was multiplying, Dr. Greg Young was dropped into the center of the growing storm. We're in his house right now. He collects cuckoo clocks.

[Dr. Greg Young]

Look right up there over the fireplace.

[Kathy Dunn]

Oh, yeah.

[Dan Tabursky]

Edelweiss.

[Dr. Greg Young]

Yeah.

[Dan Tabursky]

The New York State Department of Health put Dr. Young in charge of finding the source of the mysterious illness. So when something like this happens and you're at the Department of Health, is there like a binder that you flip to and be like, okay, here's what we do if we think we're dealing with this. Like, what's the protocol?

[Dr. Greg Young]

Well, the protocol is we know what we needed to do in a disease outbreak. And. And that's what we call the line list.

[Dan Tabursky]

The line list they created was step one, a grid of every patient, every symptom, when they started, when they got worse, looking for patterns. A formal version of the sleuthing some of the parents had already been doing in their heads. And Dr. Young had his eye out for a few possible culprits.

[Dr. Greg Young]

I was looking for something physical.

[Dan Tabursky]

You were looking for.

[Dr. Greg Young]

I was looking for either disease or environmental. Those are the things that had me worried. And then I thought I said, well, the other thing. Drugs, disease, environmental drugs. And those are my three top.

[Dan Tabursky]

Now, the numbers fluctuate depending on who you ask and when. But by December, Dr. Young and his team are clocking 12 students at the school with symptoms. Most had been seen by Dr. McVig at Dent, who gave them a series of tests for Lyme disease, a tox, green, et cetera. Some were tested for heavy nettles in the blood. A health contractor is hired who interviews the students to find any common toxin exposures and to rule out possible drug use on campus. They test for mold. They review recent water testing data and take some new samples. They test the lighting levels, which are sometimes linked to neurological problems. They also do air quality tests, focusing specifically on a few spots inside the school that seem to be coming up again and again. The library, a biology classroom, the girls locker room, and art room. 362 of the first afflicted girls, the cheerleaders, they shared a class in this room. By New Year's, Dr. Young felt like they had come up with the answer.

[Dr. Greg Young]

So we did a thorough investigation. And you read the report. You've got the same one that I do. We really went through everything, and I knew what the diagnosis was.

[Dan Tabursky]

On January 11, 2012, about three months into the sickness now, parents are called to a town meeting in the high school auditorium. It's a Wednesday evening, and the goal is to calm the fear that had been building. You were the spokesperson.

[Dr. Greg Young]

Yeah, I wound up being the spokesperson. And I.

[Dan Tabursky]

That's not a job you wanted?

[Dr. Greg Young]

Well, it was a job someone had to do.

[Dan Tabursky]

It does not go great.

[Dr. Greg Young]

I told them two things. I said, we've looked at the infectious disease side of it, and there is no infection among these children. The second thing, we've done an environmental review. The water quality came from Monroe County Water. I mean, it was great water. It's tested regularly. There was nothing in the water to be concerned about. It's not infectious, it's not environmental. That's all you need to know.

[Dan Tabursky]

And that was pretty much it. Dr. Young said what the state thought it wasn't. Not infectious, it's not environmental. But he refused to say what the state thought it was.

[Kathy Dunn]

That's why I was so angry.

[Dan Tabursky]

Here's Jessica again. She was there that night because I'm.

[Kathy Dunn]

Like, you're saying you're doing all this testing, but you're not telling us what you're doing. You're saying you have come to this conclusion, but you won't tell us what it is.

[Dan Tabursky]

And to you, that's suspicious.

[Kathy Dunn]

Yeah, yeah. That's when I went up and, like, called them out. I was like, I just think that's bullshit. Like, you're just gonna withhold all this information from us? Like, what is actually going on? There's clearly something going on that you're covering up.

[Dr. Greg Young]

There was this girl throwing questions at me, a high school kid, Jessica, and she had this cell phone bubble, and she starts reading this stuff. I go, oh, brother. Young kid. People were looking for an answer. They wanted something simple, disease, environmental. And they weren't getting what they wanted. So by then, everybody thought I was holding something back.

[Dan Tabursky]

Well, you were holding something back intentionally. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, Dr. Young was in kind of an impossible position here. He felt like he had the answer to what was happening to the kids as a group. But revealing that diagnosis in public would violate each individual kid's right to medical privacy.

[Dr. Greg Young]

I took a Hippocratic oath and to me ethics was weigh far more than my job or anything else. Even if I had been ordered to tell share the diagnosis, I would not have done it.

[Dan Tabursky]

It might be ethical, but it is also a great way to scare the hell out of a crowd of freaked out parents. Here's Dr. Young during that meeting.

[Dr. Greg Young]

We will share as much as we can without sharing the diagnosis. We can't do that. It's not right.

[Dan Tabursky]

He bobbed and weaved for three hours. After a while, a parent whose daughter had already gotten her diagnosis in private got sick of dancing around it. So he just walked to the mic and set it for him. The diagnosis was something called conversion disorder. And you know what that means. Well, neither did most of the people in that auditorium.

[Kathy Dunn]

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[Dan Tabursky]

In our latest series, media mogul Ted Turner launches a 24 hour channel dedicated.

[Kathy Dunn]

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[Dan Tabursky]

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[Kathy Dunn]

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[Dan Tabursky]

Listen to business movers making the news on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. On January 3, 2012, there's an item in the Batavian that's the newspaper in the next big town. Over the headline snowball throwers sought in Leroy, a group of kids throwing snowballs at cars were now evading police. And I'd left behind two major clues. Footprints in the snow and one orphan glove found at the Scene on the status of the manhunt. An officer is quoted as saying, someone's gonna have a cold hand. When a reader wrote in the comments, how is this news? The paper's response was economical and to the point. Because I say it is. My name is Howard Owens. I'm publisher of the Batavian, serving Genesee County. Howard Owens says it is. So we've become, for a lot of people, the primary news source locally. And it's you, it's me, and I have two employees. But now, just one week later, the snowball story somehow seemed small, as a couple hundred Leroyans packed the school auditorium looking for an answer to a newer, scarier mystery. Owens was sitting in the front row when the state's diagnosis, the one they were trying not to say, was finally revealed. And that's the first time in my life I heard the term conversion disorder. So I was frankly out of my depth. But I sit there, you know, Google's your best friend sometimes, right? Sometimes it's your worst enemy. He actually just googled it in the meeting. And the first article I sent in the audience pops up on conversion disorder as, like a total. You know, this is a fraudulent kind of diagnosis. In fact, conversion disorder is real, but. But it can be a bear to wrap your mind around. Now, the definition is constantly evolving, but in 2012, the running definition for conversion disorder is psychological stress or trauma that boils over into physical symptoms. The symptoms are very often neurological. Trouble walking, a limp that won't go away, numbness, seizures, motor tics from the mild, like a twitch to the extreme, often violent. A conversion reaction can last for an afternoon, and it can also cripple you for a lifetime. But in general, you know it's conversion disorder because there is no organic cause. There's no clear physical explanation for why it's happening. So you have a limp, but X rays are normal, and you have seizures multiple times a day, but MRIs show nothing. The symptoms in conversion disorder are real. They are actually happening. It is not faking it. It's not looking for attention. But all the tests, the EEGs, the blood work, the tox screens, normal. But that's just the first part of it, because what's happening in Leroy isn't happening to one person. It's happening to, at last count, 12 persons and spreading. Here's Dr. McVig. She agrees with the state's diagnosis.

[Kathy Dunn]

Each case, uniquely, is a conversion disorder independently. But when you mush them all together and they all have the same symptoms and they all know each other, then it's a mass psychogenic illness.

[Dan Tabursky]

Mass psychogenic illness, otherwise known as mass hysteria.

[Kathy Dunn]

Mass psychogenic illness is not like, oh, it happened here. It happened here. It happened last week here. These are rare occurrences. And to have this many people have an occurrence that's this well publicized, that is not only that, but tic disorder. So motor disorders are much more rare. So most of the time they're, you know, GI issues or passing out. They're not motor disorders like tic disorders.

[Dan Tabursky]

In 1692 in Salem, Massachusetts, when a spate of unexplainable behavior broke out among girls and women, the people there blamed the devil and the girls themselves. But many historians now believe that that was a case of mass psychogenic illness. Mass psychogenic illness happens overwhelmingly to girls. No one's quite sure why. And we'll get to that. It involves bizarre physical symptoms with no clear physical cause. But then it spreads from person to person, usually in tight social groups like a convent or a small village or high school. So when Elizabeth Paris and Abigail Williams first had symptoms in Salem, Massachusetts, vocal outbursts and strange contortions, it wasn't the devil. It wasn't even conscious. It was some psychological stress or even trauma overflowing into physical symptoms and then spreading among the other girls in the settlement who knew Abigail and Elizabeth, who unconsciously caught the symptoms themselves. How? It's a line of sight thing that is the vector for contagion here. It's not saliva or sneezing or not washing your hands. It's seeing and hearing someone suffering with the symptoms that could cause you to catch it as well. Now that's all fine and good for 300 years ago and long gone girls in bonnets and buckle shoes. But as a diagnosis today in that auditorium in Leroy, for a parent to hear about their kid, now that is a big pill to swallow. It was very tense. Nobody was buying conversion disorder. It was, I think, strange for all of us. Howard Owens again, the reporter. You know you're lying to us. This can't be real. You guys don't know what you're talking about. And sitting there facing the crowd and taking the heat. Dr. Young, the guy working for the state who thought they'd solved the mystery, why were you so confident? Have you always been this confident?

[Dr. Greg Young]

No, I wasn't.

[Dan Tabursky]

Put it this way, why were you so confident in dealing with something that you had never seen before? And in terms of masochogenic illness, it's pretty rare.

[Dr. Greg Young]

It is rare. That's the first one I'd ever seen, actually. But don't forget I had a big army behind me. I had the neurologist. I had the psychiatrist. I had the movement disorder people. I had the NIH people. So, yes, I was comfortable. And I'm sorry, but it's just. It is what it is.

[Dan Tabursky]

So you heard conversion disorder and you thought.

[Kathy Dunn]

I thought that's bullshit.

[Dan Tabursky]

Here's Jessica again.

[Kathy Dunn]

I don't believe that. Because after seeing. I was like, there's just no way. I don't believe that. Like, seeing all these girls, like, they're not making it up. And, like, I just don't believe that. That's the thing. I just couldn't. And, like, my mom and me were just so outraged to hear everybody just, like, say, that's what it was like after all of this. That's all it is. I just don't know how to believe that. I'm not a doctor. And I don't care about hipaa. I care about getting these kids better.

[Dan Tabursky]

This is a parent talking to reporters after the town hall.

[Kathy Dunn]

I mean, there's a whole lot of common sense here that I think is being dismissed.

[Dan Tabursky]

His kid had missed almost a month of school so far. Her symptoms were that severe.

[Kathy Dunn]

I think all teenagers have a certain amount of stress to deal with in their lives, you know, these days with the broken homes and the boyfriends and all of that sort of thing. I'm talking about something that just comes on within a couple of weeks, and these kids are just totally normal. And then next thing you know, they're going bleh. And their arms are swinging and.

[Dan Tabursky]

So you were thinking conversion disorder is bullshit or. Yes, that was my initial impression, yes. Howard Owens, did you ask yourself why they would say that? Yeah, I hate to think myself somebody that buys into conspiracy theories or whatever, but certainly, you know, you can't. We should have some healthy skepticism of the government and that they might lie to us. It's not like it's never happened. And they would have motivation to lie if it was environmental cause. Right. The school district would certainly explain that. Well, liability. If it's mold making these girls sick or bad water or that orange ooze on the athletic fields, the school and the town could be liable on the hook for gazillions. And they might fear liability if it was some sort of viral disease that they had failed to control. So, you know, that might be reason for a government agency to lie. Dr. McBeag, to a lesser degree myself, are unable to get specifics.

[Kathy Dunn]

We're not doing that to hide anything or to. We're here to Be responsible physicians.

[Dan Tabursky]

The guy saying, I swear I'm not hiding anything. That's Dr. Laszlo Mechler, Dr. McVigg's boss at Dent Neurologic. Mechler goes on the news a few days later to try and calm things down.

[Kathy Dunn]

We know exactly what is going on. We know exactly how we should treat it.

[Dan Tabursky]

Part of it is the natural course of the illness.

[Kathy Dunn]

That was the funny thing to me that gave me that, you know, that feeling in the pit of your stomach of something isn't right.

[Dan Tabursky]

For Emily's mom, Kathy, it began to feel like the school wasn't just cooperating with the neurologists at Dent, but almost colluding with them. She says the school nurse called and told her, do not take Emily to your family doctor.

[Kathy Dunn]

She said, we're dealing through the school. We're dealing with Dent.

[Dan Tabursky]

That's who. She says the school wanted them to see Drs. McVig and Mechler, the neurologists.

[Kathy Dunn]

And I went, okay, why are you suggesting even to a parent of a child where they should take them to be seen?

[Dan Tabursky]

Yeah, really unusual.

[Kathy Dunn]

I just felt like, why are we funneling these girls, all of them, to one doctor? It just didn't seem to make sense. Why don't we all go to different doctors? And then if you all say the same thing, okay, that makes sense to me. But if one doctor is looking at 20 people and saying the same thing over and over, it just. I don't. It didn't feel authentic to me.

[Dan Tabursky]

Kathy never did call the doctors at Dent. She says it didn't matter, though.

[Kathy Dunn]

I remember getting a phone call from Dent and them asking me, did I want to set up an appointment and such. And I was like, how did you get my number? How did you get my information kind of thing?

[Dan Tabursky]

Kathy takes Emily to their family doctor instead. But even then, it's the same old song and she's getting sick of hearing it.

[Kathy Dunn]

The doctor walked into that examining room and said, it's conversion disorder to me face to face. Never even turned her head to look at Emily or examine her or anything. And I said, how do you know? Just thinking. You haven't even, you know, you're a doctor, so you know, and I'm not. So how do you know this? And she said, well, she goes to Leroy. These girls all have it, so she's got it. She basically said, oh, well, it's all in your head. You're fine.

[Dan Tabursky]

Here's Emily.

[Kathy Dunn]

How are you, as a medical professional, gonna look your patient in the eye and be like, you're fine. Stop thinking about. You're fine. You're fine. So what you're saying is I have these symptoms, but you don't know why either. And I was like, you're not gonna do any tests? And she's like, no, I don't need to. And I was like, okay. And we left, and she didn't want any part of it. So I was like, okay, we'll find another opinion.

[Dan Tabursky]

It felt like she didn't want any part of it.

[Kathy Dunn]

Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it kind of did. It kind of felt like. It's terrible to say this, but my child's an individual, and I don't want her grouped in with. I don't want you to tell me that she's exactly like all the other ones. And this is.

[Dan Tabursky]

I don't know.

[Kathy Dunn]

It just. I was like, I know my kid.

[Dan Tabursky]

And whether it was called conversion disorder or mass psychogenic illness, everyone knew what it meant. It meant mass hysteria, that it was all in their heads.

[Kathy Dunn]

It started to feel like people were kind of picking sides on conversion disorder or question mark.

[Dan Tabursky]

In 1976, a new theory emerged about Salem, Massachusetts, and what had happened to the girls there in the 1600s. The theory was that the women and girls in Salem had not been possessed by the devil, nor did they experience a mass psychogenic illness. The paper suggested that what they had experienced was something called ergot poisoning. Ergot, you'll be interested to hear, often grows on ryegrass, and in certain weather conditions, rainy, damp, cool. Rye grass, it should be noted, is a common grass type to plant on athletic fields like the ones in Leroy, New York. The same fields that students complained had a habit of flooding after rainfall that had reportedly been oozing a weird orange substance sticking to the clothes and sneakers in of students. Students on the soccer team, students on the cheerleading squad. I'm not saying what's happening in Leroy's ergot poisoning. I'm not even saying what happened in Salem was ergot poisoning. But the thing that makes a conversion disorder or a mass psychogenic illness diagnosis viable is that there is no other explanation. And for Kathy Dunn and the parents at leroy High School, who were trying to weigh a diagnosis of. Of mass hysteria on one hand and question mark on the other, question mark is starting to look pretty good, especially because now it seemed like whatever was making the girls in the high school sick was starting to evolve. This morning, the mystery appears to be growing. TENAE national correspondent Amy Robach is here with the latest on that and the sickness that till now had been confined to the high school. To the girls that were seeing each other in the halls every day, it was about to jump the tracks.

[Kathy Dunn]

Good morning.

[Dan Tabursky]

And as we've been reporting, more than.

[Kathy Dunn]

A dozen girls at Leroy High School say they have an illness that causes severe tics and verbal outbursts. Now a 36 year old woman says.

[Dan Tabursky]

She has those same symptoms. Next time on Hysterical. So you're still not grouping yourself in with that?

[Kathy Dunn]

No, because it was all teenagers and I was far from a teenager.

[Dan Tabursky]

Someone was like, dude, there's a news van outside.

[Kathy Dunn]

I took off so fast. Like, is there really something bigger than we think going on here? Some people, you know would go as far to say there's a cover up.

[Dan Tabursky]

Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes early and ad free right now by joining Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] survey and if you have a tip about a story that you think we should investigate, please write to [e-mail] tips. Hysterical is a production of Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios. Our lead producer is Henry Maloski. Our associate producer is Marie Alexa Kavanagh. Sophie Bridges. Managing producer, Erin Kelly. Senior producer, Lena Masitzis. Additional production by Zandra Ellen. Diane Hodson is our editor. Our executive editor is Joel Lovell. Fact checking by Natsume Ajisaka. Mixing by Hannis Brown. Our head of sound and engineering is Raj Makhija. Original music composed and performed by Dina Maccabee Legal services for Pineapple street from Crystal Tupia for Wondery. Our senior producers are Lizzie Bassett and Claire Chambers. Coordinating producer, Mariah Gossett. Senior managing producer, Callum Plews. Hysterical is written and executive produced by me. I'm Dan Taburski. Our executive producers for Pineapple street are Max Linsky, Henry Malofsky, Asha Saludja and Jenna Weiss Berman. Executive producers for Wondery are Morgan Jones, Marshall Louie and Jen Sargent. Thanks for listening.

[Kathy Dunn]

Ben hadn't had a decent night's sleep in a month, so during one of his restless nights, he booked a package triple broad on Expedia. When he arrived at his beachside hotel, he discovered a miraculous bed slung between two trees and fell into the best sleep of his life. You were made to be rechargeable. We were made to package flights and hotels and hammocks for less Expedia. Made to travel.