Build Instant Connection with Improv

Summary

I Am Charles Schwartz Show: Build Instant Connection with Improv

Episode Release Date: February 12, 2025
Host: Charles Schwartz
Guest: David Rosowski, Renowned Improv Coach and Author

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of the I Am Charles Schwartz Show, host Charles Schwartz engages in an enlightening conversation with David Rosowski, a distinguished improv coach, former artistic director at Second City, and author of The Subversive's Guide to Improvisation. David shares his extensive experience working with comedy legends and divulges how improvisational skills transcend the stage, offering transformative benefits in business, leadership, and personal interactions.

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Guest Background and Expertise

David Rosowski introduces himself as an improv guru dedicated to teaching non-comedic improvisation that emphasizes emotional connection and authenticity over humor. With over five decades in the field, David has mentored prominent figures like Steve Carell, Stephen Colbert, and Amy Sedaris. His tenure as the artistic director at Second City in Los Angeles solidified his reputation for fostering genuine connections through improvisation.

David Rosowski [03:00]: “Improvisation isn't just about being funny. It's about presence, awareness, and the ability to connect deeply with others.”

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Core Concepts of Improvisation

The duo delves into the essence of improvisation, highlighting its role in enhancing communication, leadership, and business success. David emphasizes the importance of reading the room, authentic presence, and the art of pivoting when faced with unexpected turns in conversations or negotiations.

1. Presence and Authenticity:
   Being genuinely present and not forcing outcomes leads to more meaningful connections.

   David Rosowski [04:52]: “Read your partner emotionally. Be in relationship to what you see, not what you want.”

2. Reading Body Language:
   Understanding non-verbal cues such as gestures, facial expressions, and body positioning is crucial for effective communication.

   Charles Schwartz [06:21]: “Learning how to read those micro expressions, learning how to read body language...”

3. Pivoting:
   The ability to smoothly transition or change direction in a conversation when faced with obstacles or unexpected responses.

   David Rosowski [13:33]: “When you have to pivot, it asks you to be inspired to look at things differently.”

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Applications in Business and Leadership

Charles and David explore how improvisational skills are directly applicable to various business scenarios, including negotiations, sales pitches, and team leadership. The ability to adapt, empathize, and communicate effectively sets individuals apart in competitive environments.

1. Building Rapport:
   Establishing genuine connections by meeting others where they are, rather than imposing one's own agenda.

   Charles Schwartz [04:52]: “Show up authentically to create an instant connection.”

2. Tactical Empathy:
   Understanding and addressing the emotional states of others to eliminate their pain points and foster trust.

   Charles Schwartz [06:54]: “Your ability to connect, pivot, and truly listen will set you apart.”

3. Negotiation Strategies:
   Using improvisational techniques to read the other party’s needs and respond dynamically to secure favorable outcomes.

   David Rosowski [25:12]: “Recognize their pain and connect emotionally to negotiate better deals.”

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Practical Exercises and Techniques

David offers actionable exercises to help listeners enhance their improvisational and communication skills:

1. Observation Exercise:
   Next time you engage in a conversation, consciously observe the other person's body language, gestures, and facial expressions to better understand their emotional state.

2. Empathy Building:
   Focus on empathizing with your conversation partner's current feelings and experiences without trying to steer the interaction toward a predetermined outcome.

3. Kinesthetic Response Awareness:
   Identify and respond to physiological reactions triggered by certain stimuli, helping to pivot conversations naturally when needed.

   David Rosowski [29:36]: “Recognize when someone has a kinesthetic response and use it as a pivot point.”

4. Tabula Rasa Approach:
   Approach each interaction with a clean slate, free from preconceived notions or biases, allowing for more genuine and flexible communication.

   David Rosowski [33:04]: “Start with an empty slate to avoid being clogged by your own filters.”

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Overcoming Common Challenges

The conversation addresses common obstacles individuals face when trying to implement improvisational techniques, such as fear of failure and cultural differences in communication styles.

1. Embracing Failure:
   David underscores the importance of viewing failure as a stepping stone to success, much like learning to walk by falling multiple times.

   Charles Schwartz [15:17]: “The only way to succeed is to fail. You got to fail your way.”

2. Cultural Sensitivity:
   Understanding and respecting cultural nuances in body language and communication to build stronger, more effective relationships.

   David Rosowski [50:36]: “Recognize you're bringing your culture into the interaction and adapt accordingly.”

3. Vulnerability and Authenticity:
   Encouraging individuals to show up as their true selves, which fosters deeper and more meaningful connections.

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Conclusion and Takeaways

David Rosowski's insights on improvisation provide a robust framework for enhancing personal and professional interactions. By embracing presence, reading non-verbal cues, and mastering the art of pivoting, individuals can become more adaptable, empathetic, and effective communicators.

Charles Schwartz [39:37]: “Show up with purpose and present in the moment. It’s about being the best supporting actor in the scene.”

The episode concludes with prompts for listeners to engage further with David's work through his website and book, encouraging the adoption of these improvisational principles to achieve sustained success.

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Notable Quotes

• David Rosowski [04:52]: “Read your partner emotionally. Be in relationship to what you see, not what you want.”
• Charles Schwartz [06:21]: “Learn how to read those micro expressions, learning how to read body language...”
• David Rosowski [13:33]: “When you have to pivot, it asks you to be inspired to look at things differently.”
• Charles Schwartz [15:17]: “The only way to succeed is to fail. You got to fail your way.”
• David Rosowski [25:12]: “Recognize their pain and connect emotionally to negotiate better deals.”
• Charles Schwartz [39:37]: “Show up with purpose and present in the moment. It’s about being the best supporting actor in the scene.”

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Further Resources

• Book: A Subversive's Guide to Improvisation by David Rosowski (Available on Amazon and David Rosowski’s Website)
• Website: davidrosowski.com
• Contact: [e-mail]

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Download Exclusive Guide:
To delve deeper into David Rosowski's principles and apply them to your business and personal life, download the exclusive guide here.

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Embrace the power of improvisation to transform your interactions and unlock unparalleled success in every facet of your life. As David aptly puts it, “The magic isn't in the plan. It's in your ability to embrace what's happening right now.”

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the I Am Charles Schwartz Show. In this episode, we dive into the transformative power of improvisation with David Rosowski, a renowned improv coach, former Second City artistic director, and author of the Subversive's Guide to Improvisation. David has worked with some of the biggest names in comedy, from Steve Carell and Stephen Colbert to Amy Sedaris and Chris Farley. But his insights go far beyond the stage. Improvisation isn't just about being funny. It's about presence, awareness, and the ability to connect deeply with others. David reveals how mastering improvisation can sharpen communication, strengthen leadership, and even drive success in business. He breaks down the critical skill of reading the room, why most people try too hard and fail, and how showing up authentically creates instant connection. Whether you're leading a team, negotiating a deal, or simply looking to improve your interactions, these lessons will change how you engage with the world. This conversation is raw, insightful, and unapologetically real. If you've ever wondered how to think on your feet, make an impact, and truly be in the moment, you don't want to miss this one. The show starts now. Welcome to the I Am Charles Schwartz.

[B]

Show, where we don't just discuss success.

[A]

We show you how to create it. On every episode, we uncover the strategies and tactics that turn everyday entrepreneurs into unstoppable powerhouses in their businesses and their lives.

[B]

Whether your goal is to transform your.

[A]

Life or hit that elusive seven, eight, or nine figure mark, we've got the blueprint to get you there. The show starts now.

[B]

All right, welcome back. I'm really excited to have Dave on the show. Thank you so much for being here.

[C]

It's great to be here.

[B]

So for a lot of people, they don't know who you are. They don't know what you do. Let's get everybody kind of caught up. For the people who've been living under a rock, who are you? What have you done?

[C]

My name is David Rosalski, and I teach improvisation. I have been known, and I hate this phrase. Somebody said that. It's like Rozowski is the improv guru. Because what I do isn't just teach improvisation. I teach about being aware, being in the moment, connecting, really connecting to the person that you're talking to. I wrote a book called the Subversive's Guide to Improvisation, which has shaken up a lot of the improv world. Because I'm saying things like, improvisation isn't just about getting laughs. It's about connecting to people on an emotional level. And if you start out by trying to give people to make People laugh to make people. To make people like you. The first thing that you're going to do is you're going to turn them off because they see it coming. They just see it coming a million miles away. Most improvisation, as we talked about a little earlier, when people weren't listening to you and me, is. Most improvisation is crap. And it's just horrible. And it's really, really hard to watch. Why? Because people are trying too hard. They're just trying too hard. Can you just, for a minute, be. Can you just be for a minute? Just don't worry about what the outcome is. Just be with me for a minute. So I go around the world teaching theatrical improvisation, non comedic improvisation. And I got to tell you, the scenes are hilarious because everybody's being honest and truthful and in the moment. A little bit about my background. I was a place called the Second City, which has been called the Harvard of improvisation. The people that I work with, we do sketch. We create improvisation scene. We create the sketch scenes, comedy scenes through improvisation. So that means that we're writing on our feet. We're learning how to connect. We're doing it in the moment. And the people that I work with are people like Steve Carell, Stephen Colbert, Amy Sedaris, Rachel Dratch. I was. I was coach for Chris Farley. I've worked with them all, all of them, eventually becoming the artistic director of the Second City in Los Angeles. I've been doing theatrical. I'm 65 years old. I've been doing this since I was 10. And I am not to be screwed with because I just love what I do. And I stopped caring. And the moment that I really stopped caring, I started making money. And, yeah, one of the reasons that.

[B]

I wanted to bring you on, because you're like, why are we talking improv? We improv at every moment of every day of our life. And it's about connecting. It's about knowing your purpose, and it's showing up authentically. And, you know, we talked about this before we started recording that you and I communicate with each other in a very specific way. It's fast, it's simple. And we have to filter it a little bit here because, you know, people get upset and apple blocks things. So this a little bit of the. Under the. The filtered version of Dave and I on this one. But what I was talking about was in business, people need how to communicate like this on the fly. They need to be able to connect with their audience. They need to build rapport. You need whatever it is, if it's a negotiation or if you're selling something or if you're leading a team. There's so much of the skill set that you have that translates significantly better off stage than I would even say on stage. So you. Through that and you're. And you have people. What are some of the first things you teach them other than don't try and be funny? What are some of the things that you walk into? How do you build that connection? How do you show up authentically?

[C]

I started teaching. I teach an online. I teach every day. I teach classes every single day online. And I started. I had a beginner's class yesterday and the same beginner's class that I have all the time. And this is it. I am going to sit in this position, whatever it's going to be, I'm just going to sit here and you're going to look at me and you're going to assume what it is that I'm feeling in the moment that, that you see me. So if I'm sitting here with, I've got my hand on my chin and my eyebrows are furled like this, I look concerned, right? So the first thing I want to do is not to get. Is to go, okay, here's the thing. Nothing comes out of my mouth that first hasn't been dipped in my heart. Think about it. You look at somebody, you empathize with them, you reach them on an emotional level. You meet them where they are. You don't pull them to where you want to be. Because if you pull them to where you want to be, you're. They're not going to go. The first thing, it goes like, get your hands off me. So the first thing that I teach them is read your partner. Emotionally read your partner. Be in relationship to what you see, not what you want. Because the only source of suffering is non acceptance. The greatest thing you could do is accept the person that's in front of you, what they're offering in that moment. But part of it isn't the end result. It's about being in the moment. You want their money. Yeah. You want their money, get their money. Great. But you know what? That's not, that's not your purpose. Your purpose is to make an emotional connection at the beginning. And the money will come, man. The money will come.

[B]

I think if, if your goal is this, you have to eliminate their pain. If you want their profit, you have to eliminate their pain. But in order to do that, you have to, as you just said, meet them where they are, have that conversation what is. What is Susie going on with right now? How is she showing? Learning how to read those micro expressions, learning how to read body language, learning how to understand that. What comes out of your face? If you say banana and somehow she's trigger by banana? You got to be able to read her body language. Oh, I said banana. And her eyes crossed or she scratched her ear or whatever the heck it is. Okay, I've triggered. So it's. It's a. Meet them where they are. You didn't say, meet them where you are and drag them through.

[C]

No, no, no. And one of the things that. So I was. When I was. When I was the artistic director of Second City, I was asked by one of the most famous improv. I'm sorry, one of the most famous theaters in Chicago, Steppenwolf Theater, where John Malkovich came in. And like all the. All the. Laurie Metcalf, they all came from there. And I was asked to teach non theatrical improvisation for them. And they turned me onto this one concept which you call the viewpoints. And there are nine viewpoints. And the nine viewpoints. I know it sounds hyperbolic, but it codifies everything. The nine viewpoints. How you're standing, how you're sitting, how you're moving, how you're talking, how. What's your tempo, how much are you quiet. Like it codifies every one of those things. So then when you're looking at somebody, I'm watching you right now, Charles, and you're nodding, and you're nodding. Connects with me. And that's called gesture. You're nodding. It connects with me, and you're saying. And that's a gesture. And I'm talking at this elevated tempo, which is one of the viewpoints, right? It's one of the viewpoints. And it's an elevated tempo. And it. It charges you. It connects with you. And so when I teach improvisation, the first thing I do is teach this theatrical trick. And it's a Rosetta stone. The Rosetta stone is this. How is your partner sitting? That's called shape. How are they leaning? Are they coming? The moment that you say something, you recognize the kinesthetic response in them because you said banana. And if they. If they have a kinesthetic response to banana, you go, I'm going down the banana. I'm going down the banana route. I'm going down the fucking banana route.

[B]

You know, so it's modeling, right? It seems like.

[C]

Did you see my kid said, it's on to that swear? I went, got to be in the moment and listening if you are, if you are you going. My plan is this. You're missing out on what's happening now.

[B]

Yes. And it's, it's about mirroring their. How you interact with them and understanding. Because you and I talk. Our tempo's very quick. The way that we have. This is just who we are. If we bring in Uzi and she talks more like this, and this is how she communicates and she slows things down, we're gonna slow with her, we're gonna meet where she is. We're not, as you said earlier, meet them where they are, don't drag them. We are trying to get there because so many people come in and they're like, oh, I've got this thing. I'm gonna negotiate on this. This is my sales pitch. If the person is a 90 year old person and they operate at this speed, at this level, you've lost them. You're never going to close that deal ever.

[C]

Well, you know what this is like now I have a podcast called Add Comedy with. Add Comedy with Dave. The name was, I just came into it with the name. And one of the things that I, that I noticed is when I would have a guest on and they had a project and it was a friend of mine say it was a friend of mine who just did a movie and then a project and I'm like, so, how's it going? You know, what's going on? How are you? I know you just had a baby. And it's like, yeah, I just had a baby. And then they click into, I have to, I have to sell my product. Yeah. But the moment that I was starting doing don't drop the soap, the toilet drama that I have, the prison drama that I have, that CBS and I got about 10 times out of 10, 10, 10, 10, 10,. Just like, hey, hey, hey, Donnie, where are you? You're no longer connected with me and at that point, I don't want to have a relationship with you.

[B]

And I think the same business as well. If you're. There's so many times I was doing intro calls, you know this. We do intro calls before we talk to someone because we want to make sure you have rapport. I got on the call with somebody, I've known him before, and he gets on the calls like, hey, what's been going on? And he is just. His gut he just destroyed because his father's dying. For an hour and a half. We didn't talk about anything that he wanted to pitch, anything he wanted to bring on podcast, anything he wanted to share. We talked about stat. We talked about what was going on in his environment and we connected with on that because we built a report. When we did record the podcast, it was just amaz hasn't been released yet. But it's amazing because it was connected. You spent the time to meet them where they are. And I. People do that. I don't think they have the rapport. So if someone's going to learn how to do this, can.

[C]

Can you hold that thought? So I just want to say one thing about that. Very often when I'm asked to be on a podcast, the person tells me what it is that the podcast is about. My first thought is, I'm not going to do that. Because we're just going to have a conversation and we're going to go where we're going to go. It's like, yeah, but there's going to be a time, like, I got a bunch of questions like, I don't want to see your questions ahead of time. Because if you've got a question, you've got a structure. And if you've got a structure, I'm an improviser and I follow the shiny object. You know, I'm a crow, I'm not a train. You know, I don't want a circle and circle, it's like, oh, my God, there's something shiny. And so periodically I'll do what I just did with you, which is, you know, you want to go, forgive me, but it's like, I'm inspired by what you said and you know it because of the connection that we had.

[B]

But people don't know how to do that. Like, for. I think for you and I, for whatever reason, it's how we authentically show up. There's a lot of people that are so caught up in their own crap that they're like, oh, I've got a question. I've got to stay on the question. I've got to do this. And you see it. You talked about Stephen Colbert before, where he's got the questions, the Stephen carrot questions about, what is your sandwich? What is this? What is that? And he's got a very small part that he's only got about six minutes to blast through that. And he's trying to do this tactical empathy. He's trying to engage like, oh, yeah, peanut butter and jelly. That's. That's a good sandwich. And you know, he's just struggle busing through that idea when you want it just. It sucks because you're stuck on that train track versus to your Point being a crow. How do we teach people to get the heck off the train tracks? How do we teach people to actually show up?

[C]

What is it, Charles? What is it that stops people from doing what it is that they. That they're inspired to do, that they're compelled to do? It's fear. It's fear and the moment. And here's fear. I don't know if you've ever read the book the War of Art, not the Art of War. The War of Art. The War of Art is about. Do you have a project? What do you want to do? It's the guy who wrote Bagger Vance, the guy who wrote the screenplay for Bagger Vance, the War of Art. And he says, there's one thing that gets in the way of what you're doing. Say that you want to be a writer. What's the first thing that most people do? I better take a writing class or there's a book on writing. All right, I better take another writing class. I better have a writing partner. It's like, so what is that one thing? That one thing is called resistance. And it's resistance every single step of the way. What is it that you want and what's stopping you? And here's the thing that you learn in improvisation. The word no doesn't mean no. And I'm not getting. You know, I'm not. I'm not saying. I'm not saying that other than this word no is not the word no is. Is. It's. It's not going to kill you. It's a stopping point. It's a stop sign. And when you have a stop sign, you stop and you go, what are my options now? What do I have on the table now? What is it? Because all that they said was no. They didn't say, we know where you live and we know where your child goes to grammar school.

[B]

We're not going to put your kid on fire. We're not going to blow up your. No, no. And pivot. I don't think people even know how to pivot.

[C]

I think that. So let's go. Let's go to the pivot. Let's go to the pivot. When you recognize that somebody has to pivot, that moment that you pivot, you didn't expect that moment that you have to pivot. So what does that ask you to do? It asks you to be. Asked you to be inspired to go, how else can I look at this thing? And why don't. Why am I afraid of not looking at it? Because I don't know what's going come next. Well, you know what? And you said it earlier, we improvise. Every. Every day we improvise. And I don't know what's going to come earlier. Anybody who's watching. I'm sorry, anybody who's listening to this podcast now might have had an idea of what this is going to be like, and we just prove them wrong.

[B]

Absolutely.

[C]

And they're not.

[B]

And that's what I love, because we're just going to be and be. And I'm not going to drag you where I want you to go. You're not. And we're going to play back and forth. It's a. It's a tennis match, but people don't have this skill. And I think you're right. They're terrifying. They're so afraid to mess up. I mess up before we even get out of bed. I. I brush my teeth the wrong way. I mean, just. It is what it is. You just. Yeah, it's the same type of a woman. What was it? He goes, when you. When you're tangoing and you get tied up, you just keep tangoing on. It's for sure. Just keep going.

[C]

For sure, for sure. And. And nothing that we do, nothing that we know how to do didn't come with us failing, didn't come with us falling. We knew how to walk because we learned how to fall. That's how we do it. And. And so. So I gotta tell you, if you look at the road, if you look at the road that brought you right here having a conversation with me, I'm gonna say there were five things that you were disappointed in, that you pivoted. That brought you to me.

[B]

That brought me zero onto the back of that. There's a lot of things. Yeah, I failed. I tell these people all the time, the only way to succeed is to fail. You got to fail your way.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

Just like what walking. No one sits there and looks at their kid and says, oh, here's little Billy. And they fall down 10 times. Like, well, that's it. We're just going to get him a wheelchair. We don't do that. He's got to figure out how to freaking walk 100%.

[C]

But inside, when somebody can't walk, the. When. When somebody doesn't know how to walk, the first thing you don't. The first thing. The first thing you don't do is look for wheelchairs for them.

[B]

Right?

[C]

You go, we're going to figure out how to make it. How we're going to figure out how to walk unless there's something chronic wrong with them.

[B]

Right. And then there's ways that there's things you can do with that as well. But we don't do that. Our school system rips that out. They're like, oh, you didn't get a good grade. You're going to detention. You're a failure. They take love of failure. I remember I was working with a guy who was a special force guy. Really nice guy. He sits. Here goes. Your fear is your shoreline. It's what's going to bring you home. Whatever you're afraid of, that's what you need to do next. It's a non negotiable.

[C]

And, and, and, and I think the thing right there is to go is not to think of what the circle. Not to think about what the consequences are if you don't do it. That thing that, that scares you, you go, that's going to scare me. That scares me. Okay, let's just take that thing that scares me. It's not. That scares me. Which means that I might not be able to, which means I won't be able to, which means I'm going to be able to. Like those things are all fantasy, that definition. Worrying. Worrying is. Worrying is rehearsing for something that you hope doesn't happen. And it's like, take that thing and go because you're going to keep coming back to that. I got to do this. I got to do this in a good amount of. And every time you do that, that you go, this is what I have to do. Just bloody do it.

[B]

Yes. Look like an idiot. Make the mistakes. Who cares? You're not gonna, you're gonna die one day sooner or later. I spent eight years in a hospice watching people die. Sooner or later you're gonna die. It is what it is. This is probably not gonna kill you. That. Not getting that deal, not having good conversations, not hitting on the girl and getting her phone number, not getting the job. It's not going to be. And you're not going to remember it. Take it from someone who's failed a lot more than he succeeded. It's going to. It is what it is. So if we've got someone, we've gotten two things right now, right? We've got them to say, show up where they are, meet them where they are, throw that out of the window. When you teach people what are some of the exercises, they say, listen, this, these are bulletproof. These just work. These are proven. We know this works come hell or high water. If I've got someone who's got paralysis with this. What do you walk them through? How do you make them do whatever they're going to do?

[C]

I'll give an example. Okay, let's say. Well, first I'm going to tell. I'm going to. First I'm going to let them know about something called the kinesthetic response. Kinesthetic response is something that happens physiologically to your body when. When. When some kind of stimulus comes in. And the stimulus could be whatever. It could be a smell of a fart. It could be a smell of chocolate chip cookies. It could be somebody saying your name. It could be, you know, you hear a gunshot or a shot or something like that, it stops you in your tracks. It takes your breath away. It takes your breath away, you know, because if one of the things that I say is when your respiratory, when your respiration changes, it's because your inspirations change. So what I will have these people do is I'll go, all right, all right, let's do this. Let's just do this. There's a lot. It's just way too much going on. Okay, you're going to overnight camp. Yeah. And they'll go, now this is. That. This is the exercise. That's how good of an actor. Have you been overnight camp and someone go, no, I never was. It's like, did you have friends going to the overnight camp? And they'll go, yeah. It's like, what did you like about. How was that, like, going to. Knowing that all your friends are going to have the summertime of going to overnight camp? And they would just. They. I was distracting them. And what I'm looking for in that. In that distraction, in that journey that they're going down is for this. And it happens every single time. Charles. They're going to say a word that's going to stop them, and they're going to have a con. They're going to have a kinesthetic response to something. And the first thing I do is I go, look what you just did. You were in flow. The moment that you knew that there. The moment that you thought that there was no product that you had to deliver or nothing that you had to show you were your authenticity. Now, let's talk about the audience. Did you all watch him have that kinesthetic response? Did y'all watch him bumper at that one word, whatever, bathing suit or whatever it was? And it's like, yeah, it's like, that's. That's our Northern Star. That's the moment that we go Tell me about bathing. Like, why did that bother you? And then suddenly they are affected by something. They're having a conversation that they didn't know they were about to have. They're investing in something that they didn't think that they were going to invest in. I don't mean financially, I mean giving energetically. And everybody is walking away from something with an experience that they didn't have before. So the first thing that I teach them is be aware of your body. And how do we do that? Be in flow, man. You know, I'm going to give you something where it appears that there's no, there's no risk. There's no risk. We're just, we're just talking, we're just yammering, that's all.

[B]

And if it doesn't, that's cool too. But I think again, it goes back to what you said. It's not about you in this situation. Be enough flow of yourself. But also see the other person and say, okay, what happened there? What did they do? Did their eyebrows just shoot up? Did they look away? They throw their arms back? What's going on? Because they're giving you signals.

[C]

Everything that you did, everything that you just said, eyebrows going up, that's. That, you know, that's a gesture. They move back. That's called spatial relationship. Did their body change? That's called shape. And the more that you know, going in, that we are, we, we are, we are expressing ourselves with our body more than you go far more. Absolutely. 100. And so when I teach people that I'm going, what if you what? What if. What if the goal, the end goal wasn't to get a laugh? What if the end goal was just to have. Just. Just to land with and hang out with somebody for two minutes. And then when they get. I could do that, it's like, okay, great. That's called improvisation.

[B]

And she. But I think so many people on improv or, or not on stage are so focused on being the trainer, right? Being on that rails. This is what I have to do, Einstein. I'm so stuck on this very organized way of doing it. They just don't let go. And it screws up in business, screws up negotiation, screws up improv. I also think that, and we were talking about this beforehand, there are certain people who are gifted, beautiful geniuses when it comes to improv. And then there's the rest of the planet. Because there are certain things you got to know that you don't make a fish climb a tree. There's certain Things I just don't do. It just is what it is. I am 6ft tall with size 13ft. I cannot dunk a basketball to save my life. I don't get on a basketball court. This is. I'm just not good at it. I've made peace with the fact that I am not a good basketball player. Now you can be a baseball. I used to be able to throw it at 92 miles an hour. Cool. This works. I'm not going to sit there and beat myself down and try and beat LeBron James. I'm just not good at it. So knowing that if your gifts are, hey, I'm a great improv guy. Awesome. I'm a great sales guy. Awesome. I'm not a great mechanic. Don't go be a mechanic. Get the hell out the stage. You're just not funny. Leave. Don't be the sales guy. If you suck at it, pay someone.

[C]

What if. But here's the. But here's the thing. Because I want everybody to do improvisation, and I will take anybody on. I will take anybody on. And as. As an. As an improv coach, as an improv director, as an improv teacher, as an improv actor, I will play with anybody because I feel like I can connect with you on the level that you're. I can connect with you at the place that you're going to. Okay, go.

[B]

So I think what you just said there was. It doesn't matter. I'm going to show up, and I'm going to meet them there, and I can help, and I can connect with anyone. And I think in business, people don't do that. People say, oh, well, this person. I. We have different backgrounds. Shut up. What is your ability to connect if you can. Even if you completely disagree with each other? Because right now we're recording this, and there's some political changes going on. Even if you fundamentally disagree with the other side, don't try and agree with that. Just try and connect. If you can move the.

[C]

I have a neighbor. He's right over there. I have a neighbor who is of a very different political bend than I am and is very, very vocal and dresses the dress and wears a hat. All right, so he's my neighbor. He's my neighbor and salt of the earth. Because you and I can talk about. I got my hands three feet away. I. You know, like, you and I could talk three feet with my neighbor. I could talk an inch. But there's that inch. Yes.

[B]

Find the inch. And you're gonna find the inch by meeting them at Their. Don't drag them to your inch. This has got really.

[C]

Nope.

[B]

Go to your age. Go to his itch is not your instrument.

[C]

So. So, you know, we connect. He's a chef. We love food. He's got a cat. We've got cats. I bought a guitar the other day. He's got the same exact guitar. A Martin D15, you know, like, the same exact guitar. So it's like, let's jam. It's like, let's jam. But I ain't singing some songs that you want to sing, and I don't expect you to sing the songs that I want to sing.

[B]

Right. Don't force your truth upon someone else. Meet someone. No, is.

[C]

And it's also. I'm not here for that. I'm not here for that, man.

[B]

So in business, though, when we do this, when someone's trying to do this, one of the mistakes I see all the time is they're forcing their narrative so they're not meeting the person where they are. They're not. See the room where, you know, we do this in negotiation. The thing that you think is really important for your negotiation, they don't care. They could. They couldn't possibly care in any way, shape, or form. You have to find out that, hey, if you're negotiating for this building, and in this negotiation, we're going back and forth, and this was their building, this was their thing, and say, listen, I know you don't want to leave this. This was your mother's legacy. I'm going to make sure in contract, we'll put in here, the building will be named after your mother for perpetuity forever. This is what, all of a sudden I'm going to get that for a million dollars less than somebody else. Because I identified their pain, and I did that by spending the time to connect with them and read their body language and do those things. And people think, oh, well, improv's just for stage. No, you're putts. You improv every moment, every day. None of this was prepared. You just. None of this is progressive.

[C]

One of the goals in improvisation, in any improvisation, is to make this. I'm sure that there's a. There's There's a. There's a. A meeting point here. But to make what it is that you're improvising. Look. Look, like it was written. Is. Is to improvise at such a level that your flow is authentic. And the way that you do that is you make sure that everything you're about to say comes out of your heart, comes out of empathy comes out of the feeling that you feel in the moment you feel those feelings. And the important thing, my, one of my mantras is feel the feelings you're feeling the moment you feel those feelings. Which means that feelings are fluid. And when they're fluid, when we understand they're fluid. And just because I'm holding onto it for a moment doesn't mean that I have to hold on to it forever because I have to be ready for something to happen that is going to throw me off, that is going to make me pivot. But at that moment, that's why I'm doing this. Yes, I'm doing it for the money, but I'm also doing it to go. I'm going to connect with you and feel what you're feeling in that moment and pivot in that moment.

[B]

And if you don't connect and you don't embrace pivot, consistent pivot, you lose. I talk about this all the time. Opportunities of a lifetime only matter in the lifetime of the opportunity period, because it's going to go and it's going to pivot out. You talk about exercises in your book and I got access to your book and I was going through those. Could you walk people through something that could do, even if they're just listening to this right now or watching you and I go back and forth. What are some of the exercises as you walk through that get people to go, okay, I get it. Have to know how to connect. I've never been able to do that. For whatever reason they grew up and their dad used to beat them with a two by four or whatever their story is, where they can divorce that story, where they can sit down and say, hey, these are exercises that I can start practicing with myself, my kids, my wife, my dog, my husband, whatever it is that they can start doing, that really kind of start moving that needle.

[C]

It sounds so simple. But it's like the next time you have a conversation with somebody, watch them. Not just watch your eyes, to be present to every single bit that they move, how they move, how they look, how they're responding to you, where their eyes go. And that's all that matters. That's the greatest exercise right there. And you could do that with your partner, you can do that with your family, or you could just sit at a cafe and watch two people have a conversation. And to be an audience member and to just assume the hell out of what the situation is. And what I mean by that, when.

[B]

You'Re not a part of it, build the story. See who's going on? Try and make it up.

[C]

Absolutely, absolutely. And recognize that whatever it is that either of those people are doing, you do it too.

[B]

Also, I think that understanding that if some book told you that when a person crosses their arms, it means this. No. Each person has different triggers and different momentums and different things. I sit with my arms crossed like this when I'm listening to someone. You've already done it. We were talking about you leaned back and you folded your arms. That's just a place. And you're listening. But if you go listen to a book, they're going to tell you, oh, your arms are crossed. You're deflected. No, that's not true for everybody to say. How do you understand when someone's lying? Oh, they look this way. No, they don't. It's a break in pattern. But if you haven't identified their pattern, you lose.

[C]

That's it. It's a breaking pattern. And to recognize that break in pattern, to recognize when somebody has a kinesthetic response and to recognize the evidence of that, and the evidence is like someone had their arms crossed. And then you say something and they uncross their arms. It's like, oh, they no longer feel that way now. Or they didn't have a gesture they weren't doing. I'm swinging my hand in the air. They were swinging their hand in the air and then they suddenly went, but you know, my mother wasn't there. And then you take, they take their hand down and you go, mother made them stop. That Mother is where I'm going to go into this conversation.

[B]

Yes. And I look, there's just massive science. This isn't stuff that we just made up. This is science. One of my favorite exercises they do with this is they, they take a girl. They don't. Boys too, but they take a chance. A cup in her hand and she has a pad of paper and she goes up and says, hey, can I ask you some questions? And they say, yeah, of course. She goes, well, can you hold this for me? She'll hand them the cup and she'll write down questions. She does this in two different narratives. Once with a warm cup, once with a cold cup. And then when they're done, the person walks away. Another person will go and say, listen, we just hired Susie. What was your general feeling of her? How did you feel about her? When it's a warm cop, they're like, you know, we felt like she was warm and friendly and connected to us. If it's a cold cop, they're like, we felt cold and distant. Human beings are predictable. There are very specific things you can do. And if you don't believe that human beings are predictable, go to any of your colleges or the library or the Internet. And look, Behavioral science, we're very.

[C]

I think the lesson there was always carry around a warm cup and give it to somebody when you're talking to them. I think that that's a rule that we can all live with, is never have a conversation with a stranger unless you give them a warm cup of something.

[B]

It's funny you bring that up when I'm sitting down and I'm negotiating deals. If the deal gets stuck. And they're all going to know this now, but if the deal gets stuck, I'm like, hey, you know what, guys? I'm like, I'm sorry. I'm really hungry. Do you guys know what foe is? And they're like, what? I was like, yeah. I'm like, I'm just. Can we just stop? I need to go eat. And I will go take them for this big bowl of faux. And the deal will close at the table. 90% of the time, my team knows what to do. They're like, oh, you're going to go close the deal now? Because it got stuck. And I need something to break pattern. And I.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

It's a simple thing.

[C]

And I think one of the things. One of the ways to do that, certainly in improvisation, is to make sure that it doesn't seem like you're doing that. And, and, and for me, usually there's something where if you're really listening to somebody, you start. You start. You start accumulating inventory. What is it that we talked about? And the important thing is to go, like, to make sure that you remember every single thing that the person has been saying and what they got to them. So that if you ever need to make a pivot, you pivot with the inventory that you have. But I do, like far. And I will go. I will, I will. If you and I are negotiating, I am going to be a stickler at one point just so that you buy my lunch.

[B]

Yeah, that's fine. I'll buy you lunch. It'll be great. One of the things you talk about, inventory, you know, I know what I think inventory is. I'd love for you to break down kind of, what is that inventory? When you're. When you're reading someone, when you're trying to be there and trying to meet them where they are, what is the inventory that you're cataloging in your head?

[C]

The inventory would be like, what gestures do they make? How is it that they respond to me? If, if. If I notice that they aren't having eye contact with me? And every once in a while I'll go, is that eye contact because they're distracted, or is that eye contact because they're not confident? Is that eye contact because they've got some kind of chronic disease, like that sort of thing? I will also notice how well are they listening? Because very often I'm just going to go, if I have a kinesthetic response and they don't stop, I'm going to go, that is who it is that they are. So each person gets a different way of react. Each person respond. I respond to each person differently because I'm seeing everybody as a clean slate. There's something called tabla rasa, which is really important in improvisation. Tablorasa means an empty slate. At the beginning of every improv scene, you want to have an empty slate. You don't want to come in with a bunch of different things, because the more things that you come in with, the more clogged you are going, I have to say this. I got to do that. I can't do this. I can't do this. And what's happening in all of those things, and this has to do with my book, where I'm going, screw the rules. Screw the improv rules. And the improv rules are things like, you've got to say yes and. And you can't talk about people who aren't there, and you can't ask questions like all these improv rules. So these improv rules, what are they doing? And the same thing happens in business where you can't do this. You must do this. You have to do this. So while we're going through that, while we're listening, nothing that person is saying is coming through to me, or very little of it's coming through to me, because it's all going through filters that I've brought in because I haven't been tabula rasa. All these filters that are coming in so that I'm not being my authentic self. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm censoring myself or I'm keeping track of, oh, I have this amount of time. I've got to accomplish this before I leave.

[B]

Not them. And for those of you, I'm sorry, tell.

[C]

Say that again, please, because it's.

[B]

You're making it about you instead of about them. And for those of you who are watching the video, go back when you said tomorrow, I tilted my head to the side, I did the dog, and immediately was like, he doesn't know what that means. I need to describe, because he was there. He immediately, oh, head tilt. I know what that means. He just wanted to grab a puppy. Let me explain it, because he doesn't know because he was here.

[C]

And you, Right. And you didn't say, wait a minute, Dave, I don't know what this is. Tabarasa. I watched you do that, and I wasn't watching you. I didn't, I won't get that cue. And it's a cue, man. It's a cue. It's like in theater, where you've got, in theater, in, in, in, in movies and theater and anything, you've got a cue. I say this, you say that. But the important thing, another important thing, is to go let your partner finish what they're talking about. And that's a major thing, too. Are you interrupting someone in the middle of their thought? Because you assume that what they're, you assume you know what they're going to say. And the example that I give is there's a difference in two sentences. I love eating pears and I love eating pairs of pants. You know, you're going to want to have somebody put the full stop at the end of that to go, how do I respond to that?

[B]

Yeah. And so he says, I eat pairs of pants. I'm like, you okay there? You need a hug, right?

[C]

I like pears. And you stop them there. And you go, I like pairs. I like pairs, too. It's like, no, you didn't let me finish talking. I like pairs of pants. Right?

[B]

And then you've got massive disconnect from that point. And what will be interesting is people listening to this right now will see you and I are interrupting each other all the time. And that's our dynamic. We can do that because we feel confident enough to say, oh, let me finish that. Let me go back to that. Because you've already done it a couple times. Let me go back to that. Let me finish that thought. I have something else I want to say, because it's a, it's the way you and I communicate. I can't do this way of communicating with a lot of people because certain people just, they don't play that way. Awesome.

[C]

I, I, I also think that when you get two people who've done as many podcasts as you and I have done, we understand how to have an interview, how to connect with people. Because if I go back to, Because I was my podcast that I did, and I stopped it when I started writing my book. I had. I don't know, you know, I had 250 guests on it. And if I really want to embarrass myself, I would go back to the very first interview I had with Tom Dreeson. Tom Driessen, who is. He was a comedian who opened up for this guy 17 years, opened up for this guy called Frank Sinatra. So he was my first guest. He was my first guest. And I'm listening to it, and I keep going, huh, yeah, huh, huh, huh. And it's like, I'm listening, going, shut up, Rozowski. Because every time you go, huh, you're stopping the flow of what he wants to say. So one of the things is, in terms of businesses, go. Are you going, huh? Or are you nodding and giving visual cues that want your partner to go on? Watch somebody who interviews. Watch somebody interviewing. Watch. I'm sorry, watch a news reporter interview someone who just got indicted for some crime. That reporter. I have a background in my. I have a degree in journalism. That reporter is not going to nod. They're not going to say, huh, because they want that person to keep talking. You want your. You want your client, you want your. Your customer to keep talking, to keep the dialogue going.

[B]

I was. I was sitting there. I was in. So people I work with are in the Philippines, and it's a culture thing in the Philippines. They'll say, huh, yeah, huh, yeah, huh. About 15 times in my sentence, and I'll stop. I was like, what's going on? They're like, what do you mean? They're like, oh, it's a sign of respect. I was like, no, it's not. You're breaking my train of thought. Shut the up. You're killing me.

[C]

Just shut up.

[B]

I'm like, oh, my God. You're understand. You know, again, meeting them where they are, that culture for them, that's how they communicate. For Ostracine as, it's massively disrespectful. And I just want to walk around because it drives me out of my mind.

[C]

I have. I have. I have an improv partner, and she that I play with, and she and I can talk over each other in every single improv scene. But there's a skill set that you go, can I talk and can I talk and listen at the same time? And that's a skill set.

[B]

And most people only talk to talk or they listen to talk. They listen for their cue. They listen to when they butt in versus, again, this all comes back to meet them where they are. And you can't meet them where they are if you're not listening. If you're not. And I'm not talking about, listen to what they say, listen how they move, how they're breathing. People don't get that where someone breathes is huge. Because when someone comes to me and because when their entrepreneurs come to me, most entrepreneurs don't have bad days. They have days where they don't have any more days. They're just.

[C]

It's.

[B]

It's one. It's the second highest. Not wanting to live.

[C]

Because.

[B]

I can't say that other word because people get freaked out not wanting to live in this environment. So they'll sit there and I'll watch their breathing. Are they breathing high up? Are they breathing in their gut? You'll sit there, and if you get to it, you'll get to the point where not only you can see their breath, you can see their pulse, and you can actually see it on where they're doing and what they're going. And as you've said, these are your cues. They're giving you bazillions of cues. Just shut up and pay attention. Just sit there and open it up long enough. Get off your train track and get over to it.

[C]

Right, so then to go back to what you were saying about, like, how can the average layperson use these skill sets in, say, business or something like that, in negotiation conversation? And, and what. What I'm getting from our conversation is this. It's like, just be present. Just watch what's going on. Just be excited that there's going to be a pivot. And, and, and if you have the confidence and coming in with the confidence, the confidence includes empathy and, and a skill set of, of radical listening. You're going to succeed, and you're not just going to succeed in a shallow way. You're going to establish relationships that have depth, that have depth. And not just depth, but width. And the width is. The depth is in your heart. The width is in community. You're going to be able to connect with people who will connect with people. And this isn't about schmoozing, you know, because if you come in with the idea of, like, I'm going to schmooze, it's like, I see you coming a mile away, man.

[B]

Everybody does. If you're trying to sell me something, everyone gets it. So when we're going through this, if we have these things, I'd still love to be able to give some people some tactical Stuff like, we sat there and we gave them very specific things. Meet where they are, learn how to read, learn how to do tactical empathy, Learn how to do these things, which are fine, but you've done stuff which most people can't do. I've watched you improv before. I've watched shows, I've seen lessons that you've done. I talk to people that you've taught. You have a gift of being able to do it radically quickly. So for those of you who don't know what an improv are, first off, go see an improv show. They'll sit there and people. So I want to walk out and they'll say, hey, I need the name of a person and the name of a. Where they are and something that's going on. And then they're going to build all of that. So the person is on stage. They have no idea what they're talking about. They are the. They are the. They're everything. They're the director, they're the writer, they're the makeup guy. They're everything all at once. And they're doing it live while playing with someone else who's doing it at the same time. That's a skill set most individuals haven't mastered. You clearly have. When we're doing this and you teach your students, what are some of the things that. When you're working with your students, they're like, you know what? This exercise, when we do this, this and this really kinds of move the needle for them when they're sitting in your courses.

[C]

Well, there's that one that I just described. One of the exercises that I. That I did do, the very first exercise that I do is. And maybe I talked about it. I've got a lot on my mind because we also. I live in Los Angeles, where there are fires right now. So what I'll do is. And I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna stand up here and in for those people in radio land. I'm five foot six, but, you know, But I'm five foot six. But let's just say I'm six foot four, and I'm very muscular. That has nothing to do with anything. So what I'm going to do is this. The first thing that I did, and certainly in the class that I did yesterday, and I think we talked about it a little bit, was, I'll just stand here like this. Let me just say, in the improv classes that I teach, I don't take suggestions. I don't go. Give me a place Give me a thing. Give me an activity. I don't do that. What I do is I just have somebody stop and just stand, and then I'll have the person that's you watching this. I. I say to them, what do you need to tell me based upon how I'm standing?

[B]

And I like that. You just, literally, you just did two different poses. When you first did it, you did super person poses. You're arms are out of the sides, hands on the hips. For those of you who are not watching this now, you've got arms are crossed, but there's a holding of an elbow. And this is important. Absolutely, because there's a difference of your arms crossed and folded inside each other versus arm cupping the other hand.

[C]

Like, I'm gonna say this for those people who are watching it. This. I've got. I've got my hand on my. I've got my hand on my arm, and I've got five fingers that are visible. This guy is not. This right now. What I just said for those who aren't watching is that I tucked my thumb into my armpit. This guy. If we start a scene like this, Charles, you're gonna have one particular feeling. If you're really watching what I'm doing. This is a different one, Right? Okay, now, so there's this guy, which is different than the guy that I just was a moment ago. Do you know what I did that was differently? Did you see what I did that was different?

[B]

Yeah, your. If you're reversed to me, your hand went from open on the side.

[C]

Right. So that guy's not that guy. So the reason I'm saying this is this. Every. We are non. We are. We are expressing non verbal cues in real time. And so my first exercise with everybody is just to kind of have everybody move around a circle. This is when I'm doing a class in person. Have everybody move around in a circle. Say there's 15 people in the class. Say, everybody move around the circle. I will tap two people, which means they stay and everybody else goes away. Now, immediately, we have two people that are in relationship to each other. And I'll ask one of them, what do you. What are you compelled to say? Compelled is really important. It's not. What do you think you need to say? What's a funny thing to say? What are you compelled to say? And say one person is looking away and the other person is looking at that person. So what are you compelled to say? What is this guy compelled to say to the person looking away? And it's Like, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. Oh, my God. Like, what do we have there? We've got a fantastic scene. And what do we want to do? We want all scenes to start in the middle. We don't want to say, thank you so much for coming to prom. This is really a great prom date. I'm so glad that the two of us are like. And that's a problem that you get in when you get a suggestion as opposed to just what are you compelled to say based upon what's in front of you right now? So when we're looking at what it is that we're doing in a business meeting, nobody is airdropped in that meeting. People walk through the door in a.

[B]

Particular place, their kids and all that.

[C]

I'm not even talking about that. I'm not talking about the Misha gossip that they have going on in their life. I'm talking about you're sitting in this meeting and it's like, Bob's going to be here in a minute. And then the door opens and you watch Bob come in and you go, which he's walking. Did Bob say hello to me? Is Bob looking at me? Did Bob mention my name? Does it seem that Bob was given information about me based upon how friendly he is with me? In this moment, every single thing matters. And then when Bob comes in, is Bob aiming his body away from me or is Bob aiming his body toward me? Because if he's aiming his body away from me, that's a different. Is that a problem? That's not a problem. This is something I have to be in relationship to. So all improvisation. I want you to be eager to respond. I don't want you to be eager to talk. Yes.

[B]

And that's a very different thing. It's very different. And it's funny because in poker, which I'm a horrible poker player, but you'll sit there and you can read who's got a good hand based on when they get their hand. Did they look at everybody else's chips? It's tell because. Yeah, it's an absolute tell. And everyone has these tells.

[C]

All everyone has up. Why did I. I put it in a very cute way that is annoying, is we are the Santas of Now toown. And what that means is we are the Santas of Now Toown means we are giving gifts every single moment that we're connected.

[B]

That makes sense. I don't know Santa now town, but I understand it. But you're right. We are. We're giving away things 24 hours a day, all the time, with everything we're doing going like this. Touching your nose, right. Are you playing with your hair? If you have your hands covered in front of your crotch, and if I say, hey, you know, let's open up your hands, and then you put it behind you and cover your tuchus, you're still guarding something at that point. There's something that's not resonating and you're creating.

[C]

So I think. I think what you're also bringing in is, is this, that. That we've been talking about watching somebody else, but let's also talk about watching ourselves, because a major part of this is, how are you sitting? How are you standing? What's your gesture? What are you doing with your hands? What are you looking at? How. What's your eye contact? What's your. What do you. What. What gesture do you have on your face? What are your eyebrows doing? What's your tell? Because you're telling them. And the tell isn't necessarily a bad thing. A tell can also be a good thing.

[B]

To your point, Santa of now tell. And we go into these things, and people don't understand that you can't control an entire audience with how you're saying. For example, if you're talking to the left side of a stage and all, and you're focused to the left side of the stage, if you want to open up the right side, everybody else on the other side, just turn your hip to the side, open your leg up, you can keep talking to the left, but now your body's pointing to the right. The right has an illusion that they're now part of this conversation again.

[C]

100. It's so interesting that you talk about that, because I have to remember, and it's been several years, many years since I was on the main stage of Second City, but the main stage of Second City is 320seats. And you do show. You do eight shows a week, and it's packed, sold out, Every. Every single show. And what. What does that mean?

[B]

You've got.

[C]

You've got. You.

[B]

You.

[C]

You're up there on the stage by yourself, but you've got to make it so that everybody feels like they're up there with you or you're in the audience with them. And how do you do that? And it's like you fake having eye contact with people. You fake it going. You know what I mean? It's like, I can't see you.

[B]

He knows what I mean. He knows exactly, right?

[C]

Exactly. And if he doesn't know What I mean, he's like, you know what I mean? He's like, I don't know what you mean. It's like, this guy does not know. So tell me, why don't you? And then, then you. You pivot to that.

[B]

And you can also do identity holds, right? You know, really, really smart people. You're a really smart guy. Really smart people buy this. You've now done an identity hold. So now he has to break. That goes, well, I'm not like, I am smart, but I don't really want this. But if I don't buy it, I'm now stupid. You've now locked him into it because, again, beings are predictable. So being able to learn these things about human behavior, about influence, about persuasion, about meeting them where it is, because you've got three types. There's influence, there's persuasion, there's manipulation. The first two come down to awareness. Do they know you're doing it or not? The last one is about intent. So if you're manipulating someone, it normally is for negative intent. And if you don't think this is real for your audience, and Dave's nodding here. If you're a wine person, go to a wine store. If you walk in like, I don't know what I want to buy, and you leave buying 10 bottles of French wine, stop and say, wait, what music were they playing? I guarantee you they're probably playing French music, and they influence you to do that. There's a reason why the stores at a. At a. At a shopping center are laid out the way they're laid out, that all of this makes sense. There's a reason the ice cream and the cookies is at the end, because your willpower just blew out buying the other stuff, and now it's ice cream cookie time. So people don't understand how predictable humans are. And to your point of being Santa of downtown, they're constantly giving things away. And if you. Then it changes the ball game. It's like when two people are talking to each other. Where are their feet pointed? If they're pointing directly at each other, don't interrupt that conversation. Do not get in the middle of that conversation.

[C]

You lose. But you've got to watch it. And you can't just watch somebody's face or eyes. You've got to watch their entire being. Because again, their entire being and what you just talked about there was. If two people are looking at each other in this way, one of the viewpoints is spatial relationship. Spatial relationship is the distance between you and something else. It doesn't have to be a person, but that space in between those people is alive. It's not. It's not kinetic energy. I mean, it's. It, you know, it. It's. What's the opposite of kinetic energy? It's not potential energy. It's kinetic energy. It's working, it's happening. There's something going on there.

[B]

One of the other things that's really important is we talk about where culture, where people are from. You know, we talked about before with the Philippines. When you talk about distance between people, you get yourself in a situation.

[C]

Sexual relationship, special relationship.

[B]

So where people. If someone is Latin or someone is India from, Indian, Indians from. You know what I mean? Their distance that they're going to want to be next to each other, very different than someone who is from Denmark or Sweden or Finland or even the United States. We as Americans, we want a very large birth. We just give me my space. Don't come close to me. If I'm in a situation down here because I live in South Florida, if, when I'm dealing with a Latin culture, Venezuela, Colombia, all that, it's much closer. If I have someone because I work with a group of individuals from India, I can count the nose hairs that's in the guy's nose because we're so damn close. You have to understand that as well. Understanding communicate is huge.

[C]

Yeah, you can. And again, we keep showing back to. You can't go. You've got to go in there with tabla rasa with an empty slate. Because if you're bringing. And you've got to recognize you're bringing your culture into what it is that you're doing. And those of us. But one of the things when. So we go back to the idea of failure. And I was the artistic director of the second city of Los Angeles for 11, 10 years or 11 years. And there was a change in management and the change in management at saud time. And in the back of my mind, I was thinking, maybe it's time for me to go. And when the universe wants you to clean out your locker, the locker is going to be cleaned out whether you're ready to it or not. And I read the writing on the wall and I decided it was time to leave because they were kicking me out for not anything that I particularly did that I thought I did or they were. They were able to tell me what I did, but they were kicking me out. So at that moment, it was a feeling of, what do I do now? This is my livelihood. I don't have A parachute. What do I do? And one of the things that I did was call the people that I know in foreign countries that I've worked with. And I said, how about I come to you? How about I bring my mishigas to Turin or to Rome or to England or, you know, to any of these, you know, Belfast? And one of the things. And I got gigs because of who. Because of my. My promenades. And one of the things that I'm really, really important is to read up on these things before I come in. Because part of what I'm doing is major. Part of what I'm doing is communication. And if I come in going, everybody speaks away and everybody walks away. And everybody has a special relationship the way that Americans do. You know, that's one of my first games in Berlin. And a guy went, and so I'm hired in Berlin. I don't really know this person. And I go, how'd it go? And he goes, you talk too fast and you're too loud, and you get everybody's face. And I'm like, oh, that's my fault? Yeah, that's my fault. 100.

[B]

And you got to debrief it. Like, before I went to the Middle east or the sandbox, I was debriefed before this interaction that when a man holds another man's hand, which in the United States, we're like, I'm sorry, what? Why are you touching my hand? When a man holds another man's hand and interlaces the fingers, it is a massive sign of trust. But here in the United States, if you and I were hanging out and I reached over and I held your hand, that way, you'd be like, excuse me, what's happening? But because I had debriefed, and I was told about this by a handler, say, hey, this is what's going on. This is what you're walking into. When this individual held my hand, interlace my hands, and then walked me around where we were, everyone's like, okay, don't mess with him. He's under this one's protection. There's trust there. If I wasn't debriefed on that in advance, I would have blown it, because I would have ripped my hand away, which would kill rapport. And it's on me. It's not on someone else. It's on me to understand, because, you know, if I don't, there's things that I can do versus things I can't do somewhere, somewhere else. And we mess up these things all the time. People will normally Give you the benefit of the doubt once. And if you. If you open to saying, like, everyone hates the French, which I don't understand why everyone hates the French, because I've never had problems with the French, but when I was in France, I would say they're like. And they're like, okay, you're trying. Let's give this a shot. What are you trying to say? God bless. Since I made an effort and I'm sitting there with a book, they're like, all right, you stupid American, what are you doing? And I'm like, dude, I just need it.

[C]

Right. I think a major part here is also the ability to go. To say this. I'm sorry.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

I got it wrong.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. There's nothing wrong with that. My bad.

[C]

Right. No matter what it is you're doing. And again, it goes back to fear, where it's like, oh, I can't say that, because then they're going to see I'm not powerful or strong. And it's like, I. I, like, I screw up. It's like, that's part of improvisation. That's part of being alive. Is. Is.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, you said it's a part of being alive. Because at the end of the day, there's two extremes of this. A, it's the acceptance. That's part of life. And I also think, B, at the end of the day, the person you roll over in the morning with really doesn't care that you screwed up. They don't care.

[C]

Whatever.

[B]

Fine. Because that person is ones that matter and going through that. So we're talking about reading. Reading body language. We're talking about showing up vulnerable. We're talking about, you know, all the things that we've gone through when people mess up the worst in your environment, where they're just completely just, God, I've tried this. I'm not doing well with this. How do you help them pivot back out? Like, listen, I'm so collapsed by fear. I'm so. You know, how do you get them to do this in a way that's joyful for them? Because there's tactics and then there's joyful. Hey, I want to go experience. I want to go play again. Because this was entertaining. How do you get them to come back after failing so far?

[C]

My first question is, what are you getting out of this? What joy are you getting out of this? What is it that you enjoy doing? And then let's do more of that. And if you can't, you know, because I'm. I. For me, this is this is a fault that I have, and most people accept it. They see. Some people would see it as a fault. It's like if I'm in a seat, if I'm teaching somebody and I'm looking and going, they are having an awful, awful time. I will take the time with them. People want you to take the time with them and to go, what is it that you're getting out of this? And let's talk about that. And I also will say this to them. Everything that you've gone through, I've gone through. And the only reason I'm telling you that is you're not alone. You're not isolated. I'm watching you, and I'm here for you, and I will never, ever let you go. And if it gets intense, I will say, and if somebody goes, well, I really suck. It's like, I want you to stop talking to my friend that way. What if I told you that you suck? And he goes, I'd be really mad. Then why are you telling you that? And what it. What it. Now, please note, what did I do? I leaned in, my tone got lower, my volume got low, and. Right. I was teaching a class. I was co teaching a class with this wonderful teacher, Alex Alexandra Billings. And it was intense. It was really, really intense. It was a bunch of college students, and they were really like. They had a lot of energy and they had a lot of emotion. And one guy was having a nervous breakdown. And what Alex did was she stopped. Everybody turned the lights down, said to this guy, what's my name? And he goes, right. Where's my shirt? It's burgundy. What does the clock say? It's 2:00. What do you have on your feet? Shoes. What kind of shoes? They're Converse. Great. Bring everybody back to the now. Take the moment and bring it back to the now. Let them decide. Let them decide if this is right for them. And if it's not, you know what? You want to go, go. It's okay.

[B]

I also think, you know, collectively, if there was anything that we wanted to talk about with all of this, if we had to. If we had to recap it up on one thing. Showing up with purpose and showing up present to this moment, not with the idea that I'm bringing you where I want you to go. I'm going to show up present where you are. Here. Yes. I got my purpose, of course. My goal is to monetize or my goal is to do whatever it is. The only way I'm going to get there. And this is Something I think people fail, not only just in business, but in life. It's about making it about me. If I'm trying to show up in your life as the leading actor, I have failed. For the old people out there, be Obi Wan Kenobi. For the young people out there, be Hermione Granger. I don't know. Don't try and be Harry Potter. Don't try to be Luke Skywalker. That's not your job. You want to be the best supporting actor in the scene. And the only way you can do that to what Dave's been saying this entire time is being there, reading them, being aware of things, being aware of yourself and meeting them where they are. There's. There's so much of this that's. It's just not taught. And I wish it was taught. You're the only person I know who teaches the kind of. The entire ecosystem. And yes, they're like, oh, it's just improv. It's not improv. It's collectively everything, how we interact in our lives. If someone wants to get a hold of you and someone wants to take these classes and they want to be part of this idea and this concept and start learning these skills which are not taught in school, that are not taught in this way, to be dynamic and to be able to read body language and do all these things. If someone's like, listen, I don't want to be on improv, but I do want to learn how to do this. I want to master these communication skills so I can be successful in my life on every aspect. How do people hunt you down? How do people get a hold of you? What's the best way?

[C]

I go to my website and. And everybody's website. Go to my website. On my website, there's a lot of material that you can have. There's a lot of connections that you have. And there's also a contact. Just send me an email and I will send you an email. I do. Most of my work is done online. I've got classes Monday, I got classes Saturday, I got classes six days a week. And that's the way to connect to me. But certainly through. Through. Through my website. Just do contact there and talk to me. I also have a book, my book. You know, here's the thing about the book. You read the book, you don't read the book. One of the things about the book, when you first read the book, is a lot of the skill sets that we have in that book are about connecting to yourself, listening to yourself, being a Human being. And when you're talking to people, being a human being, being human. And there's a lot of Buddhist stuff there without being to Buddhisty. It's about dealing with yourself with humor and compassion. But certainly the, the book has really proven to be something pretty phenomenal. If you ever, if anybody ever just wants a chat, I will. I'm always willing to talk about what it is that I'm doing and beforehand. But I'm a communicator and the way that I communicate is the first, the door has to be open. I don't go fishing. The door has to be open and anybody can walk in and talk to me about it. But that's the bottom line.

[B]

If someone was trying to track down where your door is, what is your website and what is the name of the book?

[C]

I have to do that. It's David Rosowski dot com. That's David Rosowski s k dash y@theend dot com and my book is called A Subversive's Guide to Improvisation. It's available on Amazon or if you're interested in a signed copy, go to my website and look for signed copies of the book. Those are the two ways of doing it. And that's it for now. It's in, it's in several bookstores as well. But the easiest way to get it is online.

[B]

I think what I would encourage everybody who's listening to this say, oh, well, I, I don't know, improv. This isn't about improv. This is about communicating in a way that most people haven't mastered. And it'll give you such a competitive advantage on so many different levels. And these are proven things. These are things that I use. This is a reason, because we didn't debrief on any of this. Like we're going to go into body language. We didn't do that at all. It's just something that. It has been a massive part of my success. Clearly it's a massive part of your success and the people you've trained who have gone on to be just a little successful just a little bit. So being able to do that. Dave, I can't, I can't thank you enough for coming on. I really appreciate it.

[C]

What a joy. And, and thank you for spreading the word, not just what, what I'm doing, but what everybody else is doing. Because having listened to a few of your podcasts, the takeaway is this. You're, you're kind, you're connected and you just want people to be happy, you know, and and that brings, that's a success. That brings success in its very, by its very exercise. So that's great.

[A]

Thank you for joining us in this episode. We hope you're walking away with a fresh perspective on improvisation, not just as a performance skill, but as a mindset for business, leadership and life. A huge thank you to David for sharing his wisdom, his unfiltered honesty, and his deep understanding of human connection. His approach to improvisation isn't just about being quick on your feet. It's about being present, adaptable and fully engaged in every moment. To all the leaders, entrepreneurs and creatives, listening, your ability to connect, pivot and truly listen will set you apart. The world doesn't reward rigid scripts. It rewards those who can meet the moment with authenticity and confidence. Ready to put David's insights into action, we've created an exclusive guide summarizing his principles of improvisation and how they apply to business, communication and leadership. Download it [e-mail] Charles Schwartz.com and remember, as David said, the magic isn't in the plan. It's in your ability to embrace what's happening right now. Now go out there, take risks, and create something unforgettable. Your next breakthrough starts today.