← Proven Podcast
Proven Podcast
Millions After Death and Divorce
01:02:55
In this compelling episode, Charles dives deep with Jeremy Estel, a seasoned entrepreneur and venture capitalist who transformed personal tragedy into extraordinary business success. Jeremy opens up about his journey from losing his father at age...
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- [00:00]
A
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A
Table@ziply fiverr.com hello everybody. Welcome back to the I Am Charles Ford Show. On this episode, we are talking to Jeremy Delk. Now, sure, we could talk about the fact that he was the youngest trader on Wall street, that he's done multiple Fortune 500 exits, but that's not what this one's about. This one's about the fact that he survived death, he survived divorce, he survived abuse and still became multimillionaire. We talk about how the only way to succeed is to fail. Your way to success. Now, I wanted to give you a warning on these. There's an immense amount of cursing from both sides because this is a raw and in your face episode. I'm excited to share it with you. Let's start it now. Welcome to the I Am Charles Schwartz show, where we don't just discuss success, we show you how to create it. On every episode, we uncover the strategies and tactics that turn everyday entrepreneurs into unstoppable powerhouses in their businesses and their lives. Whether your goal is to transform your life or hit that elusive seven, eight or nine figure mark, we've got the blueprint to get you there. The show starts now. All right, everybody, welcome back. I'm excited about bringing Jeremy on for this one. We're going to talk about success and failure. Some of the things that I talk about all the time, which is the only way to succeed is to fail. You're one of those people that do it better than anyone I know. So welcome to the show.
- [02:07]
B
A. Thanks so much, man. I'm excited to be here.
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A
So for the people who don't know who you are and let's talk about your success first and then we'll talk about the. All the failures and all the things that got you to that way. So tell me why, you know, what makes you unbelievably successful.
- [02:20]
B
Yeah. So you know the, the CV business card, right? The, you know, two Inc. 500 companies, 24th fastest growing was the first one. And then I think this last one was like 120th fastest growing. Two different businesses inside of four years, which is. Which is pretty cool. Taking companies public, taking them private. We invest in venture capital opportunities, industry agnostic, a lot in healthcare. Have had a lot of success in real estate as well. So we've got some really cool properties down in the Caribbean and some commercial conversions to resi in the state. So, yeah, so investor, venture capitalist and, and I speak a little bit and do some podcasts like this and yeah, that's. That's me.
- [03:06]
A
So I'm curious, did you start out successful? Like, what was your background growing up? Did you. Were you just born with a silver spoon and money came out of your. Or did your dad give you a million dollars to start your empire? Where are you?
- [03:16]
B
I wish. No, so. So no. So definitely not silver spoon. So I'm. I'm from Kentucky. I'm. I'm talking to you from Lexington today. But I grew up about an hour away called town called Bartown, Kentucky, which is like the bourbon capital of the world, so super small population. We moved there actually in when I was in fourth grade. We lived in Louisville, which is a bigger city before that. My dad unfortunately passed away when I was young, so he passed away when I was 7. And he was a mechanic, engine shop, so entrepreneur, but had his own little thing. And I always talk about this a lot. You could talk about stability. Um, but you can't teach a kid stability. And it's hard for them to understand it. Right. Cause it's like oxygen. It's like omnipresent. Like, are we stable? Not stable. Is there enough oxygen in the room? Like that type of thing. But you can really feel instability. So it was definitely the opposite. So for swing, like, we had like a family that loved us and, you know, friends and like, you know, aunts and uncles and all that, that nuclear family. And then all of a sudden just went, went away. So you, you have the loss and that's a whole thought we can dive and understand like how, how you deal with loss and grief and all those things. But that's one piece, but it's really the ripple effect that you don't really think about that happens after. So it went from the three bed, you know, two and a half bath house to a smaller house, to an apartment, to a shittier apartment. So like that's those levels. So I think no was not always successful. I, I got an inheritance at 30 grand when I was turning 17. Um, and that started my career on Wall street and I started day trading and I had massive success and a massive failure very early at age 20. But I think the drive for me came out of really two, two main viewpoints, I guess. One is understanding cognizantly, like, hey, it sucks not having resources because that's what we were at. Like, besides grieving all that stuff. Like now my mom had to go to work and like we have to figure out having aunts and babysitters who can help, you know, look after two kids, a seven year old and a two year old for a young single mother now. So like, that was like, okay, that was a resource or lack of resource problem. Let's fix that and make a lot of money, right? So I think that was like the, the, the, the, the motivation piece and I think the other which unfortunately, you know, I, I had experience at a young age, a very hard lesson that we all learn that we're not promised tomorrow. So I think that's probably that drive and then like the determination point of like, let's just go and take action is probably from that because like, dude, we don't know, like, who knows after this podcast what happens, God forbid, right? So I think you just gotta seize every moment and every opportunity and you know, look at it as a blessing. Every day you get to wake up.
- [06:00]
A
Yeah, I agree. People talk about this all the time, about being able to succeed your way to success or fail your way to success. And I always talk about, with a child if, you know, because you've got little ones, if you're sitting there when your little one was first learning how to walk and maybe the first 10 times she fell and you know, she landed on her tush and it didn't work out so well. I know you just like every other parent was like, you know what? She's never gonna walk. We're gonna buy a wheelchair. That's gonna be the end of it doesn't make any sense at all. We sit down and we teach our kids from very. Like, just keep doing it. You're gonna learn how to walk.
- [06:27]
B
It's just.
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A
Yeah, it's unacceptable to give up. And I think for a lot of people, they expect that every time they go up to bat, they're gonna hit a grand slam. Every time they're gonna hit a home run, and they're gonna crush it. And that's just not the reality we're. We're brought into. You know, I. Very similar to you. I. I did not. I came from a broken home for different reasons. You know, you ran into a little bit of different one. And then I spent eight years in hospice watching people die. People don't understand how motivating that is to really get going. And I am grateful. All the struggles and all the failures, because that's what's made me successful. And there's a lot of people right now who are listening, going, wait, what? You. You know, you're. You're grateful for all this pain? I wasn't grateful at the time that it was happening. At the time, I was like, this sucks. I really don't want this. I would have it the other way.
- [07:08]
B
Yeah, no, it's. It's so true. And it's. And it's hard to take and learn the lesson in the moment. That's why I tell people, like, it's okay. You don't have to, like, you know, be some fake person that has, like, some tragedy. Like, okay, it's all great. Like, this is meant to be. Like, it's okay to, like, grieve. And, like, when. When I, you know, lost 2 million bucks in four days, like, I drank myself, you know, to bed every morning, woke up with. I mean, it was, like, for, like, four days. And, you know, I was like, okay, this ain't fixing it, right? So, like, like, so. So now it's more of, like, all right, buddy, like, cry, do it, then. Get yourself through it, but just hurry up. Whatever you scream, punch a wall, just go through. Because once you realize that none of that's fucking productive, right? It's okay to do it, but just don't dwell on it and be cognizant enough like, it. It just. The more you do that is, the longer you're going to delay fixing the damn thing.
- [07:58]
A
There's this thing in. In Judaism, which. I'm not religious in any way, shape, or form. It's called Shiva, which means if someone dies, you've got a week. Yeah, you're not allowed to do anything. And everyone shows up and they feed you, and other than wiping your tuchas, they. They do everything for you. And then after the week, they're like, all right, let's go. Let's get back to it. Let's get something. So I think there is value in that. But you've talked about some big hits and how to go through it. You know, you've lost the parent, you've lost a ton of cash. You've, you know, you've run through these hurdles and done these things. Can you kind of give some people more ideas and dive into those a little bit deeper so that people can understand what loss and failure looks like? And then obviously, because we've just heard that. We heard CV side, right? Like, hey, fast is growing, and I've done this and I traded and I make all this money and blah, blah, blah.
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B
Yeah.
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A
People always see the end. They don't see the process. They always see how the cake, the end result of the cake. They don't show the years it took to learn how to build, make that cake. So if you could share some of the trials and tribulations.
- [08:52]
B
Yeah, it's, you know, I always say my overnight success, 25 years in the making, right? And even when I'm coaching, that's, you know, when I'm coaching clients and talking to them about, like, what's going on with their challenges. It's not like I'm that smart, and I've just read every book and I have all the answers. All the answers I have are, you know, product of my environment and my experiences. And a lot of the lessons you really learn, that you really keep are the ones that you get your ass kicked. And the failures, like, that's. That's the piece you don't. It's hard to learn from the success because you're just patting yourself on the back. I'm a great thing, let's face it. Most things, including me and you, there's a massive amount of luck. Now, I would agree that, you know, you make yourself more lucky by the more, you know, reps you're doing, the more things like that you like, luck finds you. I think that that's. That's a piece, but it's just doing the actions kind of going through and then understanding it. So I think the first big lesson is, you know, I wasn't. I told you I was drinking for four days, you know, in my townhouse that I bought as a college freshman when I lost all that money and I didn't See the lesson other than you know, probably two or three years later when. Well first lesson was I was day trading, lost all that money and but I had a condo. I had all these expenses. So I had, I had a choice. I could like pack it in and go home with my mom or like figure it out buddy and buck up. So switched to night school and started doing things and through. I talk about this in the book but through a series of odd jobs like all of that self taught chaos. But I was so entrenched in the market. I learned a lot. Was like a little bit of a, a tool that you can pick up. So think of it like as a. You played Zelda or playing a legend game or something like that. It's like another little thing that you pick up on your journey that's going to be valuable to you that you don't maybe know it but whatever. It's like hey, I'm a massive failure. I lost lots of money but that led me to have a conversation to my future boss at Fidelity to make me the youngest trader in Fidelity Investments history. Right? That's pretty cool. Series 7 license and before I even graduated college and it was because I was this young cocky kid but I, I had a lot of market knowledge and depth and that was very impressive that you kind of go through and do it. So like that was like one thing. You don't ever know how one experience is going to lead to it. And you know one of my I talk about in the book my early dreams was to kind of make it to New York. And that's what took me there was ended up going to Wall Street. The bigger lesson and I think this is what people forget about with loss or failure is you know, you set Shiva for five days or you know whatever, whatever, whatever the time period is or seven days. Like three days of me drinking for four after we go through it like we want to block that out because like our humans are so as we're innately self protective. Like that shit sucked. Let's not, let's not think about that. And I'm definitely not one to look at life in the rear view but you need to look at those lessons and understand the strength that you have inside is massive. Because I was the biggest and everyone you listen to the same thing. I, I was the biggest failure ever. And I lost 2 million doll. Then I got through it and I ended up getting a job on Wall street going all these things. So when it was a time for me to start Delk Enterprises and I left My high paying job, which my mom thought I was crazy for. Like, dude, you just, you just saved yourself. What the wrong with you? But it was the courage. And I asked myself one simple question. Is there a model or a scenario that if I go out and start my own company that I will lose $2 million in four days? And the answer was no. There was no. There was no path for me to.
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A
A little hard to do that.
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B
Yeah. So. So if I don't do that and I fucking got through it, what's the worst that can happen? I can always go back and kind of go. So you use that as the fuel and the energy and really the courage to kind of. All right, let's go through and take that next step. Because the fear is all internal, a hundred percent. It's all what we're telling ourselves. And that negative self talk, I think that's the big, the big driving piece. Yeah.
- [12:39]
A
I think when you're talking about loss and you're talking about failures, you know, you've been around death intimately in your family. I've lost members of my family and I've been around death immensely, understanding that you dive into it and you don't live in it every single day, but you don't wash it away. It's something that you always tap into. It's something that always comes in. It's always top of mind because there's always a lesson in that. And there's this whole idea that if what you resist persists. And there's times where I am just not firing all four cylinders, well, sometimes six. But you know, I'm just, as I get older, I lose cylinders. But you know, as we go into that ball game where I'm just not firing and there's part of me that just wants to scream and yell and say, you're a failure and all that. And I will jump into it and I will sit down and I will, for lack of a term, feed that wolf. And I'll be like, okay, what's going on? Where am I failure? Where am I? Where do I suck? What have I done? Because it's probably trying to tell me something. It's probably saying, hey, you're not prepared for this. You're not prepared for that. So when someone's going through these, there's very specific tactics and questions I use. When you're going through these type of loss, let's go with the, the basic financial loss and, and we talked about this before, that you're not an entrepreneur until you've lost your first million Just when you lose your first million, like, oh, welcome to the club. Way too exactly. Okay. Then once you lose your first eight, then when you lose your first 80, that's entrepreneurship and society's made it all sexy.
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B
Yeah, yeah.
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A
Y. Once you lose your first million, you're like, ah, welcome to the club. Yes, hello.
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B
It just.
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A
It is what it is. It's going to happen as entrepreneurs and yeah, it's. I, I've been ridden. I've rode motorcycles for years. We always talk about it. You're either in the process, there's only two type of riders. People have gone down and people going down. That's it. If you haven't gone down yet, you will. Don't worry about it. If you haven't lost your first million, don't worry. You will soon. You will lose it from family betrayal, from partner betrayal, from bad business deals. For you will lose it. Just being understand that's part of the process. It is what it is. Just like we talked about the baby falling down and busting our butt. What are some of the questions you immediately address when you're like, okay, I'm in a place where I'm spinning out. I completely don't think I'm enough. I'm completely failed. What are the ways that you go through?
- [14:32]
B
So the first thing I try to do is find the humor in a bad thing and I turn it into a curiosity. So like you, most people dwell on the thing. I just got like a bill for a million dollars. Like, I don't know. One point. Let's say it was this. Yeah, one point. 1.7 million for a project that we're doing. Like, it's more than I thought. Like, that sucks. But like, okay, I can just keep staring at it. The numbers aren't going to change. I keep like, wow, what am I? Like? And then like, oh, what am I going to do? Can I. Like, you can just go down that path or you just like, all right, well, whatever. Like, it's. It sucks. It's. It'll be interesting how this works out and then like, you just find it. Like, I mean, the secret to being in business is just staying in business. Like, stay alive one more day. One more day in business. Because you know how things happen. Like, oh, my gosh. Like, oh, I've got nothing. And then all of a sudden, like, literally, this happened to me. This happened to me two weeks ago. I. One of the business we invested in. I see the bank accounts, but I don't really pay attention. And, you know, he wasn't Doing a ton. And he's changed his business model a little bit. And like, I kind of literally was about to kind of have a conversation about, like, hey, let's just probably write this business off or I'll sell my equity back for a little bit, whatever. And he's like, hey, you just confirmed your wire, your bank details. I'm like, why? He's like, I got a hundred thousand I'm wiring you for. I'm like, oh, yes, I can. I can confirm. So, like, you just don't know what can I go through? So I turned it into a curiosity of like, this is going to be funny. This will be interesting how it works out. And then it does. And that's. That's kind of how it is. So you turn that in, that curiosity. That's how I look at business and investments. I'm a consummate learner and I'm genuinely curious and like, to create and understand and have those breakthroughs. That's why coaching is so much fun for me because, like, you know, I do it for myself. But seeing people have those big breakthroughs of like, it just. It's magic. You see that. You're like, yeah, let's. Now, now, let's go. And it's really them that are doing it. So you're just helping them ask those questions and process it a bit.
- [16:25]
A
It's funny as. Cause I've coached for years and help strategize and scale companies. Everyone thinks that you're coaching your client. You're not. You're coaching you. You just happen to be coaching you the whole time. And they're like, oh, this is great advice. I'm like, yes, that is great advice for myself all the time. You know, this idea of imposter syndrome, there, there's. I've been on stick four times that I can possibly tell you. Every time I walk out, I'm like, why are they listening to me? Because there's always that little fury, right? That's an imposter in the background. I'm just this poor kid from Hialeah. What am I doing? Why am I here? So staying curious is important. But when you deal with loss specifically, and we're going to get a little dark here, but when you do a death on a high level, especially at such a young age, I found ways to go through it because I was exposed from first to stranger side because I just watched it so much at hospice and then when I was. When my family members died. I know there's certain things that I've learned That I'll speak about in a second. But what are the things that you know when you have death hit you on such an intense level when it was your father. What are the ways that now that's. That's changed you but also that you can process that because there's people going through massive loss.
- [17:27]
B
Yeah, well, I mean the, I mean the way I actually process it was. I mean you know, probably mid six figures of a lot of a lot of therapy because I didn't I tell you how not to do it. Like I did it. You know this. Actually I think it's a great good question because I, I don't think I've been asked to that. That specificity. So what a natural instinct to do at least what I did was what's the best way to not get hurt again? Right. Like that was their thought, right? Like how do you. How do you not get hurt? So it goes into like massive like self protection mode. And I did that fucking very successfully for years. The trick. And I can everyone write this down. Just have no actual real connection in your life. That that's. And you're. And you're. And you're good. You will never ever get hurt ever. Just that the answer. And that's what I was doing. So like what. So I would have drinking it or I'd go, you know, party, whatever. Some people like drinkers are upset or like want to forget. Like I would drink to almost feel because like I wouldn't allow myself to actually feel because like that shit sucks. Like let's just not feel it. So it was when like as opposed like people drink. I was like more like losing inhibitions to let me be vulner. So I think that's the piece. So you have to look at it as nothing is happening to you for you. Like this is a process is a natural thing. Just like going. You're either down or going down. Right? We are all headed to the same place, right. Different times of checkout, but we're all heading to the same place. So once you get comfortable with that then I think you have to look at the same thing. Just like a bad business thing. It didn't happen to you. Like my, my dad dying wasn't my fault. Like, but there was a period of.
- [19:12]
A
Time you absolutely thought it was.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah for sure. So I think that's the, that's the, that's the way to, to look at like hey, understand this is a natural thing. Understand that your feelings are okay and it's okay to experience them. But like, don't let them define you from that. From that piece. And again, I'm obviously clearly joking about not having a meaningful relationship, but my therapist actually said this to me, and it was. It was the most genius. Aha thing, because I was like, fighting. I'm like, dude, no, I'm good. Like, I can love people. I can be nice. I can do that. But, like, don't want to get too close or be too vulnerable, because then that get hurt. So the way she framed it for me, which was just like, wow, a ton of bricks, was like, this is dark. But like, okay, you've got a kid. I've got three kids. You've got children. Imagine God forbid, something was going to happen to one of your kids. And two years, three, whatever that, whatever the event is, and it's certain, like, it's going to happen. Like, it's a medical thing, it's an accident, whatever, and they're no longer with you. Like, you know that's going to happen. So by your logic, Jeremy, should you now stop loving your kid? Or, like, slow, like, yeah, it blows your mind? Because, like, of course not. But that's what you're saying. If you don't want to have a meaningful, you know, I don't know, the relationship. So I think that's the. That's the piece of, like, of course that. That's asinine. So you would never do that. So you have to take that preposterous example to look back and like, no, let's just have. Let's be vulnerable. Let's have deep connections and understand that all you can do is control what you can control. And that's your. Who you love, how. How you love who you are, your character, all those things. And once you get comfortable with a who you are as a person and you're like, you're. You're happy, you love yourself, you're happy with yourself, then you can start loving others and go from there.
- [21:05]
A
Right? I love that, you know, you got individuals who are very, very successful. And it's be. It's still going to go to the grain a little bit to talk about it, but how powerful therapy is. And I've been. I think therapy is the gift you give yourself. And I. Very similar to you. I was an individual, like, hey, I got hurt. I'm never gonna let someone else in. I'm gonna build these walls. And walls are great. They're very good at keeping people out, but they're also very good at locking you in. And you isolate and learning through my own ways and my own path through therapy of going, you know, that we are worthy of love. You know, because the equation is really simple. Everyone thinks it's, if I do this, I'll be enough, and if I'm off enough, I'll be worthy of love. And that's just complete shite. It's complete and utter garbage. Because if you think about the person in your life that you love the most and you ask yourself, what does that person have to do to be worthy of my love? What do they have to, you know? Or else the answer is nothing. But then when you reverse and say, okay, what do I have to do to be. And then you'll create this laundry list as soon as you can break that pattern or life gets really easy. And so I love that you're. You're strong enough to share about therapy. One of the things that I ran into with therapy was how fast therapists are to label you, how fast they're going to say, hey, you're a this, you're a that, you're a this, and how fast I wanted to have those as well. I'm like, oh, yeah, this, I am this. Because then I. I had an exit strategy. I'm like, oh, yes, I am. This type of person can't blame me anymore. I've got my escape versus I need to work on my stuff. I need honesty. And. Because until you, until you embrace radical forgiveness, until you look in the mirror and say, hey, you know what? There are people out there who genuinely, authentically want to love you as you are and you don't have to change the ball game, that is a hard thing to do because you're just going to hurt a ton of people. And that's a hard lesson to learn because you're going to push away some of the greatest gifts that you've ever had in your life. And I can, you know, for those of you who are watching the video, you can see on Jeremy's face, he's experienced that as well. All done that. We have lost people who we desperately wish we did not lose. So if you haven't gone through therapy, do it now. Just. It's, it's. It's a. It's a gift you give yourself. What are the other than the lesson she gave you? What are some of the other lessons as you, as you've gone through therapy and as you've gone through loss? Because that's really what this is about. How to survive failures, how to survive loss and become successful. What is another one that just immediately just Smacks you in the face. You're like oh wow. That okay.
- [23:15]
B
Yeah. So I went through a really bad divorce and like that was, that was like I was, I was doing therapy like intense like two hour sessions every day. It was like some deep I was going through because I was like go figure obsessive entrepreneur. Like let's just solve it. Like let's just, let's just. I can't wait a week for this. That's hammering go. I probably would have done eight hour days if she would have let me but probably wasn't healthy. But I struggled a lot with. Because to me a divorce was a pretty big ultimate failure. Like I mean like big like you. You are you. Like that's like I was. So I struggled if I'm honest with like what are people going to say and think. Right. That was like partly it bigger. The longest, what took the longest was my kids. Like because every. I mean you've heard this so many times. Like parents get divorced when the kids go to college and like the kids say like dude, why the didn't you do that earlier? Like we. Because they see misery. But you don't know that. Right. So. So I was really struggling with that. So the two things that she told me because my ex wife and I we didn't have like we weren't like fighting or yelling. Never talks about. There was just no love or no true connection. So I've got you know, three kids, boy, girl, boy. And she just another thing that was just like dropped the bomb on me. Like you like what your kids see, especially your daughter, how they see your relationship with their spouse is the exact thing that they're going to emulate.
- [24:49]
A
Absolutely. Right, Absolutely. So like if.
- [24:51]
B
If you have a. If that's. That's the example you want to set and that's like a loveless non passion joking. Like I had my wife and I had a water fight last week and like that kind of playfulness is. It can. It's contagious. You see it on the kids and they're kind of going through so. So that. That kind of reassured me on, on that piece and like now and I talk about some stories in the book that really get me choked up of like you know it was the right decision because like you can see your kids like so much happier. So that's number one. But then the, the secondary piece was like what are people going to say? And it was through that breakthrough that really I think set me free and I talk about all the time is she again like and I say, what I say is like, no one cares about you. And that seems harsh, but like, they don't, they don't. They, you know, what they care about is them fucking selves. And like, yes, you're divorced and you're. People know you. Okay, It'll be a thing for a few days or a week, but then like, it goes like the new cycle 24 7. It just, it just, it cycles through so quickly. And you're right. And it does so that, that I talk about that now in coaching. So, like, yeah, that was my, my fear of like, oh, what do people want to say? And I, I never looked at it in business because I always had such confidence in business that you could, you can't beat me. You fucking just can't. I won't work you. You can't kill me. Like, I just will. I'm relentless. You cannot beat me in business. So I never saw it because I never, like, if I offended something, like, I don't give a fuck, like, I'm just doing me. So I never saw that piece from a very. What do people think? What will people say until that piece? But it's actually helped me in business as well when you kind of like, hey, like, I'm doing my right thing. This is my North Star. I, I'm, I know I'm doing this the right, for the right reasons and that's it. And you're okay with it. Who cares?
- [26:36]
A
And I also think there's going to be times you're going to miss your North Star. None of us are perfect. Some of our times, our characters are going to fail. We're not going to do what we, you know, the ideal version of us would do. We're going to misfire and that, that's okay too. And just having honor with it. And we talked about it in the beginning of this where it's like, if you haven't lost a million dollars yet, then, yeah, we're probably not going to be doing business together because just this is the reality and we, we expect affairs. I would rather hire the person that just lost everything and completely screws up and learn how to come back from that than the person who's never done that because they come back stronger and we do it in business versus anywhere else.
- [27:07]
B
No, I, I, I, I don't, if we talked, I don't know if we talked about this in the green room or not, but like, yeah, 100%. Like whenever I'm interviewing and getting pitched deals, like, especially these days, like later in my life, like, it's very rare I will invest in someone that hasn't went through a cycle, right? It's like you just get some sc like you, you want some grit like you, you, you want, you want that. Like that's super, super important.
- [27:30]
A
Especially where the economy is going now. You know, it's it. We're going to have some bumps people. It is what it is. No matter what happens, no matter who be it's the left or the right, whatever you're listening to, we're going to have some bumps and being able to handle that, so important.
- [27:43]
B
I, I, I'm throw you for a, a big open ended question but we were just having a dialogue last night. We had a big barrel pick of some really cool fancy bourbon at some buddies and just great conversation with some good guys and like yeah, probably drink too much bourbon but it's really, really good conversation and I'd love to get your thoughts on where is the future in the next five to 10 years with what's coming with AI right? I mean we use AI. We've spent a lot of money in AI. We've invested a lot in AI. We use AI in our business. Every day everyone is using AI. We put 750,000 last year on a LLM that's now like not even worthless anymore because now that it's moving so quickly, we have a couple we're working on. I think it's the, the biggest like invention since like the wheel, right. I think that's how kind of big big it is. My, and you, I think you kind of gather for being a pretty glass half full optimistic guy and I'm so excited for what it can do and some of the applications we're going for. But there is the part of me and like okay, you hear like Elon talking like yeah, the, the drone monster robots that just take over and kill everybody. Right? That's, I think that's not the, the, the worry for me. Maybe it's a real concern, the concern or question that I'm curious about what do we have 320, 350, 360 million people in this country? I, I think there's a real world where the haves and have nots and this like this, this, you know, the separation of this wealth gap. I think there's a, there's a, there's a world where we could be India I think right. You look at that, the mass disparity in wealth just on the jobs like, like on, like on you know, with, with you know, robots and AI like just the amount of work we're starting happening in Tesla with manufacturing and stuff. Like, I just really curious on your thoughts. Again, I'm the most glass house full guy, but it's just, it's just such a disruptive thing. I mean it's the wheel, it's electricity. I mean it's such this an omnipresent thing that's only going to excel. And I don't think it's going to excel 20 years from now. I think it's the next five to 10. So I'd love to get your, your take on that.
- [30:00]
A
Yeah, so I'm, I'm not an optimist, nor am I a pessimist. I'm a realist. I'm like, is it, you know, the glass, is it half empty? It's a glass of water to get over it. It depends on how thirsty I am. If I'm thirsty, then I need more water. If I'm not thirsty, then it's fine. So I'm very much a realist and I think one of the things that we go into, as you get into this ball game, you have to talk about, you have to get the soap opera out of the way. So if you're extremely left leaning or extremely right leaning, you need to put that away right now. That, that's not what we're talking about here. You need to have conversations that are unchangeable. So for example, geopolitical. If you look at birth rates, the birth rates that are happening right now in China are less than what the Jews had during the Holocaust period, in order. And when I talk about birth rates, if you have two children, your birth rate is two. If you have three children, your birth rate is three. If I have zero children, we do the difference between you and, you know, if you had 2 and I had, because I don't want you have 3 and if I have none, the answer is 1.5. In order to sustain a species, you have to have a birth rate of at least 2 to 2.2 to continue to do that. That hasn't been the case in the modern world for 60 years. And most of, well, Europe's been 1.8 to 1.6. So no matter what happens, and there's a great guy named Peter Zahan who talks about this in detail. If you just look at the data, this is the last decade for China, this is the last decade for Russia, this is the last decade for Germany, this is the last decade for, for Italy. It's, there's this, it is what it is because they stopped banging 40 to 60 years ago. Even if we did forced birth camps right now where basically we forced women to have babies, you're still looking at 20 years out. So no matter what happens, we don't have enough people. And when you look at this on, on this level. Yeah. So when you look at this like right now, we get less than 4% of our oil from the Middle east, period. Less than 4%. We do not have enough people to govern the world the way we used to, period. So even if we wanted to protect the Middle east, which we don't, there's no benefit for us doing that. We don't have the ability to do it just. It is what it is. So we have to look at practical numbers. When you look at like evs taking over, and I will get back to your question. When you look at EV's takeover, you need four times the amount of lithium that's ever been mined out of the world in order to make that accomplished. It's not going to happen. We just don't have the science for it Right.
- [32:13]
B
Right now.
- [32:14]
A
So when it comes to AI, we're running into, you know, again, Germany's got the oldest population it's ever had. China's got the oldest population it's ever had. Italy's got the oldest population. Russia's got the oldest population. They're aging out. There's. There's nothing you can do. There's. That's going to change that. We've never dealt with this as a species before. This happened because we industrialized. We went from agricultural to industrial. And when you go into industrial in this situation, you don't have those little horrible little brats because they're expensive. You have less of them because you don't need farm workers. And then sooner or later you're like, we don't want any of them because they're annoying. So we've had that change as you industrialize. But to answer about AI, we started agricultural. That's what we did. And then that revolution came in and we didn't have to be hunter gatherers anymore. And that changed. There were jobs that were created that had never been thought before. From there we went in industrial and. Which means bazillions of jobs were wiped out, just completely exterminated on the agricultural side. Then we went, you know, in industrial, then we had that, then we had the technology boom. And it was like, oh my God, tech's here. It's going to wipe out jobs. And it did. It crushed jobs. When I was in college, the Job I had was not the job that they were training me for. So when you come into these things, when you have these era of changes, the technological revolution wiped out industrial based jobs, just crushed them. Look at Amazon, look what it did to Walmart and Sears and all of that crushed them. AI is going to do the same thing. It is going to exterminate walls of jobs and it's going to create walls of other jobs.
- [33:36]
B
What do you think? And I guess that's the heartbeat. So that's a fair. It's fair, right? They have very good examples with like especially agricultural revolution and industrial. But I just don't. I'm trying to look forward to it though. Like I could see that, right. And maybe it's easier to see because it's retrospective. Like okay, that was a pivot and this, this is a new job creation. But I just don't see with. Again with the humanoid robots that are coming and AI, I don't know what that. Because what is it? It's comp. Like compute. Like the machines are doing the work. So I, I don't know the jobs. I mean we're looking at from out of real estate side, we're looking at like, you know who the law. Any, any facility that has like grandfathered in high amounts of voltage and like volume. Like that's those, those sites are worth a lot of money because like that's where it all is. Data centers in this country. Compute, compute, compute. So like I see that that's just a asset play. I don't see the.
- [34:30]
A
So anything, yeah, anything that's content, creative, any of that, it's over. It's absolutely over. And you talked about, you know, five, ten years from now. No, we just ran a bunch of stuff through AI. We had a program that, because we like we need to do photo shoots and one of my son's like, no, we don't. We took photo shoots that I had before. We'd load it in the AI and we're like, well that just saved me thousands of dollars on photo shoots. We're just going to use those and they're just getting better. You know, we have, we digitized my voice so we can have podcasts that are automated and it sounds like me talking to someone else. Google does that.
- [35:00]
B
We.
- [35:00]
A
So those are, those are being eliminated. Those jobs are being exterminated. But when we go into so anything creative, it's gone. I think your blue collar workers, the people who can, you know, fix things and plumbers and build things that, that will come back on a High level, because we're going to need that, especially here in the United States, as you know, because we've had nine presidential elections that have elected presidents that are more isolationist than the previous ones. They're all just isolationists. They did. We don't care anymore about the rest of the world. So I think where the new jobs will come that we've never even thought of before, but we're running into problems that we've never had before. So there will be massive new jobs to replace nurses and doctors and all that. But robotics, we're not anywhere near that, if you have any doubt on that. I mean, we're recording this in 2025, I think at this point. Recording this 2025, go into chat GPT and play the game of 20 questions, which is, if you don't know what the game of 20 questions is, just say, hey, I'm thinking of an answer mammal. And it'll say, is it a mammal? And four seconds later it's going to ask you again, is it a mammal? You're like, oh my God, it's just not there yet. Now in two, three years from there. Absolutely. But when we had this fear about technological revolution, look at the people who made all this money on Bitcoin or crypto or trading at home. You know, you did this, you were a trader. If I told you a guy could sit in his PJs at home and do seven, eight figures. If I told you that 20, 30 years ago, you're like, you're out of your mind. Now that's normal. I'm working on with another guy who's going to come on the podcast. He has a robot that just does a Forex. So for those who's playing at home, Forex is for an exchange. You're chaining, trading currencies, you're allowed to do it. Very high leverage. He built a Robot, he's getting 6% a week on it and it's just consistently like clockwork. It's 6.3% on this one, no matter what. He's been doing it for like seven, eight years and just it just rocket firing like crazy. So the idea to be able to make that money and to do those things, if you're walking into it being okay, I'm afraid of this, then you lose. It's like those people who don't let their kids get on the Internet and don't have tablets. What world are you preparing them for? So I think AI is going to be phenomenal for creating massive amounts of jobs. But it's also going to crush an immense amount of jobs.
- [37:02]
B
Yeah, yeah, we'll see. I mean, I just know, like, you know. You familiar with Kurzweil? Ray Kurzweil? So it's a good book, old book. It's called the Singularity Is Near. And like that, that's the idea, like, the whole idea of, like, you know, when man and robot kind of combine in that humanoid type of. Type of thing and with these nanobots and that, that's the. That's the idea to live forever.
- [37:24]
A
And I think we've got some, you know, we've been. We're. Right now, we're more divided, at least here in the United States than we've been since the Civil War, that no matter what side you're on, as you pull away rights from a person and you take away something that they used to have as a right, which we don't have, the Bill of Rights. We have the Bill of Options or the Bill of Temporary Conveniences, because we don't actually have rights. If, if you don't believe me, go look up 1940s Japanese containment camp for Japanese Americans. It'll tell you all about your precious Bill of Rights. We live in a world where we're taking away rights from people. If you agree with them or don't agree with them and you're forcing your belief upon them, those people ultimately revolt, period. So in order to get to where we want to get to with the humanoid and the singularity and all that, you've got to deal with the fact that 70% of the country's pissed and they're not going to walk away from this and it's going to get nasty. So you also got, you know, European, in this situation has a. They're, they're upset with us right now. And as they pull back, how long do you think Germany, as we destabilize away from them, how long do you think Germany's going to pay for Greece's debt? You're going to go back to what it was 80, 90, 100 years ago, before the World War II. Germany's not going to pay for this stuff for long. So you have a destabilizing of the entire idea, but, you know, kind of going back to more of what we're talking about, how to be successful through failure. When you, you know, we talked about personal loss, we talked about, you know, divorce from the parents. I mean, from your wife. We've talked about the, you know, the loss of, you know, of your dad. What do you do when you have business losses. And what are some of the business losses you had?
- [38:59]
B
I mean, another podcast, all kinds. I mean, I turned down $600 million for one of my businesses that I was sure I'd get a billion for. Ended up getting raided by the FBI, fines by the FDA, and, and I sold it for 6 million. So like half a Billy lost.
- [39:24]
A
How do you, how do you deal with that? What are the ways that you push?
- [39:27]
B
It's, it's the story. I mean, it's part, it's part of the journey. Like, I mean I, I looked at it and, and I would do it again, which is probably why I'm crazy. But I, I, at that time I was making more money than I could spend. I have billionaire friends and we weren't living any differently other than I was chartering my jet and he was, he owned his, that was liter difference and you know, some, you know, hillbilly kid from small town Kentucky. Few people get a shot at taking down a Billy like a few people. So that was me. Like it, like, what's going to change other than tax bill, whatever. Like what, what am I going to do? Like, this is my opportunity, let's go do it. And I just punted and, and kicked it down. So when all that should happen in the moment, did I feel smart? No. I felt like the biggest idiot ever. But again, if you let time and reflection guide you and know that there is a lesson coming. No, I don't know when you're going to learn it, but there's a lesson that's happened and it's going to, it's going to come to you. So for me, in that instance, it's having confidence to know that like there's, you know, this too will pass. If it's really, really good, this too will pass. If it's really, really bad, this too will pass. So the lesson on that is that happened. That was an Eat 500 company. Disastrous, whatever this is, right during COVID I actually got an offer for 12 million. But it would have shut down the company and reload and I would, I would have cost 120 jobs during a fucking pandemic. 6 million wasn't worth that to me. Right? Like I, like, I live in this town. No way. That company is still operating and going and just did a massive renovation. So jobs are saved. All is right in the world. Six months before all that happened, we had an idea for another company to look at diagnostics and biological age and what have you. We'd spend a million dollars on equipment that's how much cash we had. That equipment had been setting in our warehouse for nine months. I don't know if we ever would have fucking set the equipment up. But after all this stuff, like, okay, well, maybe we should start to look to pivot. That was my second Inc 500 company.
- [41:39]
A
And I think, you know, talk about when there's failure, you don't feel very smart. My God, I'm an idiot. It's this big failure.
- [41:45]
B
Yeah.
- [41:45]
A
I'm curious if you've had the similar experience I've had where there was massive success, and you turn around, you're like, I have no idea how this happened, because there's deals I've closed where I'm like, I'm not that smart. How is this? So, as you said earlier on, there's a little bit of luck with this. There's a little bit of luck. It's just putting out there and swinging.
- [42:02]
B
Yeah, there's a ton of luck. But. But no one's any different than you, like, anyone that you're. I mean, well, maybe Elon. Elon is just. He's next level. He's not from this world. I don't think he's. He's. He's something different. But no one else is any different than you, Right? And I think I've been in the rooms, I've been on the stage. I've. I've been there. I've met them, I've done deals with them, and they're just like you. And they took a shant and they had passion and they wanted to make an impact. And they fucking said no to failure and said, fucking, it ain't gonna stop me. It's accepted. It's part of the process. And, you know, you can fight it, but you're not gonna win. Embrace it and make it part of your. Your tool belt.
- [42:43]
A
I think the most powerful lesson I learned in business and scaling and being able to survive is you don't matter. And it's nothing personal to anybody out there. I don't matter. No one else matters. And this happened because there were two guys that both went to Ivy League schools. Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. And they went and they bought this pickling packing company. So they pickled pig's feet and they pickled eggs. And I was like, what the heck? And they bought this company, and it was two guys, and we were. I was 20 something at the time. Like, how many do you run the IT division? And I was like, dude, it's one computer. What? You don't need it? He's like, yeah, but we need someone to make sure the computer works. I was like, you make enough money, set up seven computers. What are you talking about? So I just set up a computer, had a spare one and put everything else in the cloud up. We did all that for him. I was like, what are you doing here? He said, well, we bought this company, it was complete kaka. It just wasn't doing well. He goes, but we connected and, and we, we now distribute our stuff through Costco and all these other places. And I was like, so what's production look like? He goes, we have these containers and we drop in pig's feet and we drop in eggs and we fill it with the fluid, we seal it up, we leave it in the warehouse. And I was like, well, what about your product? He was, it pickles. The longer it's in, the better it is. And I was like, son of a guy. I was like, do you guys study this and do all that? He's like, no, we just saw the deal, we thought it was easy and we just went for. And they're multi millionaires and they ended up selling the company and they made an absolute fortune. But they took themselves out of the equation. So I think when you're running into this and you're worried about how am I going to fail, how am I going to survive, how am I going to rebuild? Take your butt out of the equation. Because if you're not scaling, if you look at the numbers either in your bank account or on your scale, your actual weight scale, that is a result of your discipline and who you are. Yeah, you've, you've chosen to get there. If you are a large individual who eats 700 cakes a day and you're wondering why you can't run a triathlon. Tada. If you look in the mirror and you're blown away with how you look, that's on you. Same thing with your bank account. Sitting down, you eat. We yield to our fear and we yield to comfort. And if you can't push through those, you lose. Just all day, every day when you're coaching people and you know, you talked about, you've, you've started doing that. What are your normal clients when they come to you and what are some of the questions you ask right off the bat?
- [44:44]
B
So because I'm in healthcare, for whatever reason, I, I have a lot of doctors that come through because they just, they're good at doctoring but suck at business and they just didn't learn that. So that's, that's the, that's where it starts and they all come to me for the wrong problems. And like, that's part of it, like getting them directional. Like, okay, what is it? Because, like, why are you. Is that really your problem or that what you think the symptom is or kind of going through it? So a lot of it is how to optimize the business in the process where the business runs without you. Just to what your point is, like that business is its own. Own entity and what that allows you to do is get the out of it, right, Like I do and like let the system and the process that you like, let that kind of run. Then you can be whatever you want. You can do podcasts, you can be more creative, you can go to real estate, you can do other. Other things. So that's the first, the first piece that's. Sadly, it's pretty easy for me, but like, it's a lot of value for them. So I do it after we kind of get that piece or in. In parallel. It's a lot of the internal, like self work. I just enjoy that. Right. I enjoy like, like, you know, helping people have those breakthroughs way more than business. Business is easy. And I, I'm not trying to be. No, it is, you know, passive. It's just business. Like, yeah, but like, this is. I really loved seeing like that breakthrough. Like, okay, now we got that sorted, how are you. What are you gonna do? I got you all kinds of time now. What's your passion? What do you. And then you'll. You would not imagine. Most of the time they have no idea. I don't know what.
- [46:10]
A
Like, they've been running away from the wolf for so long. They've been trying to get away from the lion, and now they're like, what do I do? I don't have to run anymore. Aren't like, that's a.
- [46:16]
B
So.
- [46:17]
A
And you talked about money before. You know, become a billionaire, becoming a man, doing all of that. I remember the day that I, I first had seven figures in the bank and I was like, okay, sex wasn't better, Food wasn't better, my car didn't fly. My health didn't radically better. I was like, son of a gun. So it just, it doesn't. All money. Money cannot buy happiness. Money buys options and it buys the ability to do what you want, when you want, and that will give you parts of happiness. But at the same time, you, you're. Everything changes. It gives you options. Is for what I've said to people.
- [46:46]
B
Yeah, I had a buddy, we were doing business this was in. I was in New York City still. And he had a line that the only difference between money and not is where you go, how you get there, and where you stay when you arrive. Yeah. And that's pretty accurate, right? Are you driving the kids to Florida in the. In a car going back through. Are you taking a PJ to, you know, Saint Barts with the. I mean, and then staying at a rental like, it's. That's it. You're. Where are you going? And guess what?
- [47:14]
A
Every.
- [47:14]
B
Like this. We've been to Saint Barts. We. All these great places. If you're there on a yacht, there's someone there on a beach in a tent, looking at same stars for 1,100,000 of a price that you paid. Same stars, same experience.
- [47:28]
A
Same stars, same experience. You know, not the same experience, but I remember I decided I wanted to be wealthy when I. I walked, I was on a plane. I grew up very poor that I walked on a plane. And I didn't know what business class was. And I saw these people sitting in business class. And I'm a decent sized guy, so I'm but just over £200. And the seats end basically before my shoulders begin. So if you and I are sitting next to each on a plane, one of us is leaving off that flight pregnant. That's just how big. So for me, when I saw business class, I was like, I don't care what it takes. I'm doing that. I don't care how much it costs me, what I need to sacrifice. I am not being jammed up to some complete stranger where him and I are, you know, sharing sweat. It's gross. So I agree. I. I also think that money is an amplifier. So again, I don't drink. But if you were a jerk and you started drinking, you're gonna be a bigger jerk. If you're a goofball and you start drinking, you're gonna be a bigger goofball. Money's the same thing as you go into it. So what are some of the things you're talking about, breakthroughs with your clients? What are some of the breakthroughs that you've had where. Or one of the processes that you get your clients to have that work for.
- [48:29]
B
So first you got to get them aligned with the realization of, like, you know, if working more hours and harder was the answer, you would have already been there, right? Like, and like, like, but they don't see that. Like, so you got to like, Yep. Okay, well, cool. That's not the answer. Or you wouldn't. You Wouldn't be here.
- [48:46]
A
Well, I think it's because we're taught that, right? We're taught that from the very beginning, work hard, work hard, you'll make more money. That then if that was the case, then the janitor would be a bazillionaire. So. No, that's not the answer.
- [48:55]
B
No, for sure. So usually it kind of comes down to trying to diagnose what they perceive their problem is, right. And kind of going through that whole process and like, okay, let's fix that. Go the business. But then I really start going to the goals. Like, what's. Because, like, what's important to you? And it's funny that people don't often have that. Like, to me, I can tell you, my family, like, whatever, like my family wants, that's what's important to me.
- [49:18]
A
Yeah.
- [49:18]
B
And legacy, of course, but like, legacy is kind of selfish, but also for my family. So, like, that's, that's it. And that's a knee jerk answer. But so many people don't really know, like, why am I doing all this? What, what, what, what is that whole purpose? And they feel lost and they, they kind of lost their selves and identity in their job, in their career. And like, forget it. Like, think about it, right? And especially like in the doctors that we, we work with. That's an easy example. They all, like, they all went through the exact same cycle. Something in them as a young, as a youngster said, hey, they were obviously very smart, but like, hey, I want to help people get better. I don't want to have, I want to help sick people. That's the basis premise. Like when the kids are playing doctor, like, that's the basis premise. They went to school, medical school, all this debt to find out. You don't really help people. Like, like, it's like, it's like, it's like kind of like. So then they go out like, well, that I don't want to do that. And they go and do 10 years in ER medicine or whatever they do, and they leave and they get into like concierge medicine and cash. So they, they've now, now they've got halfway there. They're now back and they're, they're rejuvenated because they're happy, because they're actually helping people. So they've got that. So they feel purpose. But then after a while they're like, well, now I'm just chained to my phone. It's a different thing. Yes, I'm helping people. It's better. But now I'm Kind of changed. So they just lose themselves. And then helping them kind of find that working back through, like, okay, you are chained up here, and this is your thing. But it does not identify. It does. It doesn't. You know. You know, define you. Like, unless you want to leave this forever. Like, but that's hard to do with medical practices because usually it's a person. So what is your life after this? Right after you sell it? I can help you sell the thing. I can help you keep it and just have a cash machine. You don't have to worry about it. What do you do over here? That takes some time. It takes some time for them to really kind of go through and do that and do that work. And they have to do it. You can help them and kind of probe and whatever because, like. But everyone else's. You know what my dreams are, Are different than your dreams, and they should be. So I can't project my dreams on you. Like, do this. I can tell you, like, hey, I got similar ideas or similar paths I want to do, and this is what I. What's works for me. And sharing those experiences. But, yeah, just getting them to kind of dig in. But it's tough because you got to build rapport. So, like, the business thing helps me because, like, okay, maybe I'm smart. I've got cv and successful solve a business problem. Like, I didn't think that would work. That gives me a lot of authority when I. When they see that, like, okay, cool, you want to fix you now, right? And like, that's. That's the fun part. Yeah. Yeah.
- [51:46]
A
I would. I would say most people have no idea who they are. And they don't. You know, there's this great line from the movie the Fight Club says you're not your khakis, so they don't know who you are. And then I've had. I've worked with a lot of doctors, and they're like, hey, you know, I want to heal sick people. I want to do this thing. I'm like, cool. Do you want to do that every single day of your life? They're like, no. I was like, okay, you've just put yourself in a situation where that's your reality. And I think having residual income, having success, picking yourself up from those failures is realizing that there's a bunch of people who are doing seven figures a year who are miserable because most of the time they show up. At least in my world, entrepreneurs don't have bad days. They have days where they don't have any More days. They're having days where they have a gun in their mouth and the goal is to help pivot them because there's times where they want to discontinue living. It's the nicest way I can say it's. And I'm like, cool, let's do it. They're like, excuse me? I'm like, 100. Let's do it. They're like, wait, what? I'm like, hunt, let's do it. This life you like, you don't like it anymore. Let's get rid of it. And they're like, okay, well, what do I do? I was like, well, first off, do you want to still be married to your husband or wife? And they're like, what? I'm like, no, let's really. Let's do it.
- [52:44]
B
You're saying, what are we gonna.
- [52:45]
A
What are we doing? Let's get rid of it. Let's only keep what we want with the idea that in five, six months, what you want is gonna change. But you don't know who you are, and you don't know what your truth is. We talk about this all the time. Life. Imagine most people go to a bar, and as you can tell, I don't drink. They go to the bartender, say, hey, can I have some chocolate milk? And the bartender's like, here's a glass of orange juice. And they're, no, I'm sorry, can I have chocolate milk? And they know, here's three gallons of orange juice. Now here. Okay, can I have a glass of chocolate milk? Here's a hundred thousand gallons of orange juice. That person's never going to be happy because they didn't get their chocolate milk. Most people have no idea what their chocolate milk is. And understanding that what you think your chocolate milk is today, once you get it, it. You're going to want something else later. It's just the nature of the beast. It's. It's part of it. So if you think a successful business or anything, the process of success is failure of, hey, I got this. Cool. This worked. Now, what do I want next? Because if you take a look at your life and my life right now, and you rewinded it 10 years ago and told us what you have right now, 10, 15, 20 years ago, that version of us, like, oh, my God, you're a complete amazing. You made it your whole. You're a God. How did you do that? And then we forget that with here. Like, oh, well, actually, what I really want is this. What I really wanted that. And then when you finally get off that treadmill of, if I get this, I will then be happy. And so just. I'm just gonna be happy now for. A dear friend of mine found out that he's got tbi, which is traumatic brain injury. He's a former vet, and he is arguably the happiest individual I know, which is wild to me. I was like, your brain doesn't work. It's just wild to me. Yeah. Anyway, so when you do this and you work, what are the. Some of the first questions you ask a client when they say, hey, I want to be successful? What are some of the first questions.
- [54:23]
B
You asked successful or just like fulfilled? What do you.
- [54:27]
A
So I love that you brought that up. There's. There is.
- [54:30]
B
Because it's way different. That's way different.
- [54:32]
A
Let's explain that difference real quick for everybody.
- [54:33]
B
Yeah, yeah. Because, like, you know, they. Everyone has this outwardly thing of success as what you just described it is. You know, hey, we, you know, got this award. We hit this revenue number. We think that that's what success is. But when you hit that mark. Exactly. You just had 10 years ago, and you get there not really that cool. So it. So that's. So working them through that, understanding that, like, hey, that just part of the journey and trying to change that. Look at, like, hey, this is truly not a destination. We're not going to end up anywhere. We're just going to keep kind of going and progressing. That helps reframe their idea of success. And I actually use very similar thing, like, hey, five years ago, were you happy? No. But were you happy? If you were, it's like, you just kind of work that piece out. The fulfillment piece is what's been a lot of fun. Because that's a harder question to ask. And that's when you kind of get into, like, well, why did you start doing this? Right? What's this? What do you want to do after this? And that's an interesting question because after, they always think about it as this future thing that always is kind of pushing out. Why isn't after now, Right? I think. Why, why, why, why after? Why, why do we wait? And you just change that construct of how we're kind of built, like, oh, I'm going to retire. So I worked at 55. Like, why? Why? Why not? Like, there's a great book that a friend of mine wrote, Bill Perkins, called Die with Zero. And it's literally just about like, you know, give the kids the money now, donate the charity now. Like, don't wait. Right. If you want to make that impact, you can do it now. So you look at fulfillment and how like the resources, right, like the money, to your point, can be used solely for fulfillment. Like that. That's what like. And then you need to figure out what those times are, are those experiences are those things or. And most of the time it's experiences with the people they love. And then. Okay, then you can start. This goes dark, but negative. Like, I'm taking my family to Italy next year. I'm sorry, next in May. So three, two months, something like that. 45 people. Gonna be super expensive. It's my 45th birthday. It's not really a weird. It's a kind of a weird milestone. Like my parents are getting up there. I mean, you just don't know, like, what's going to happen in five more years. Right? So I'm gonna have that experience. Is it. Is it typical? No. But do I give a. No, I'm gonna, I'm gonna kind of do it. So getting them to understand what fulfillment is, but then to start receiving it it earlier and just starting to take it. And a lot of times it's just giving them permission to take it. Giving them. Because they already, they already can do it. They just, they don't think that it's that right time. And then you, you just start. Change that framework.
- [57:09]
A
So I think there's part of that permission is feeling worthy enough, feeling like I'm enough. And, you know, you've gone through, you know, we talked about this before we're on, before we're on camera. You went through a pretty rough, you know, really intense divorce. How do you sit back and you go, you know what? Not only I get it, I'm learning, I'm healing, I'm doing the therapy, which again, if you don't doing therapy, go do therapy now. It's a gift to give yourself. It's so absolutely important. There's. And if people are like, oh, it's not. It's not manly to go through therapy. I'm like, I can get you responded to the, you know, tier one operators who have been in therapy. These are warriors. They're in therapy too. So if you don't think you're. It's, oh, I can't do that. It's not hard. Okay, princess. Yeah. So welcome to the club. But when you're going through that, how do you refine your worth to say, you know what? I have failed in business, I have failed with my, with my kids, with my wife, with all that where you sit back and say, you know what? No, I'm gonna have a relationship which we're going to fight, or I'm going to be able to do this and, and go to. How do you go through that process of regaining your worth?
- [58:04]
B
Well, I think you can't change the past. I mean, I've tried. If someone knows Ali, I'll take suggestions, but you can't undo it. So what we do, these, these losses and these failures and these mistakes that we make, you know, a lot of times it's, you know, we just dwell in them and we're miserable, whatever. And I think that's a natural thing. But if you can go and change that to be okay, use that as a lesson to, to make sure, like, hey, that's not who I want to be. And not overcorrect, but just make that course correction to kind of go back and like, hey, I want to have that meaningful relationship. I want to be connected. I want to be home for dinner. I want to do those things. Because once you do it, then you just take action and do it. And giving yourself that permission to be able to kind of go through the other piece is like, okay, you go through a nasty divorce, there's two fucking people in it. And like, it's very easy to put blame, but you. And this is true with life, with business deals, whatever. It's way easier to get to a result and to a negotiation point and get business or relationships personal when you just put yourself on the other perspective. And I know it sounds so simple, but just understanding, like, just like you guys said, why am I having this visceral action? Why is this so important to me? What's their side? What's. What's their. What's their truth and understanding? And then if you can do that, it's selfless and kind of going through it, you can get to a meeting point quite, quite easy. There's a study that. A study. There's a thing I don't know happens in all law schools. I know it happens at University of Kentucky here, as I think second year law, they do like moot court and they give the prosecution and defense. It's about oranges and it's an intellectual property dispute. And, you know, it's about IP violations. Who owns the ip? And they're just fighting over it. Can't get to impasse. And the moot court goes on for, I think, three weeks and basically goes to a judge they're both kind of fighting out. And like, the judge renders a result that's kind of Shitty. Neither of them get protection ip, so it's not as a free for all. So they actually lost protection against themselves. To everyone else they had notes of like what the. What was important to them. Inside Prosecution had a groundbreaking business idea that can revolutionize food source with orange pulp. Right. Defense had a remarkable technology in defense for fuel with orange peels. Had they talked, there was no dispute.
- [60:42]
A
Right.
- [60:43]
B
You take the oranges, I'll take the peels. We're golden.
- [60:46]
A
Right. And we do that in negotiation. And there was a. I learned negotiation from Harvard. And we talk about, you know, this is. We divide the groups up. Group A wants this, group B wants this. But group A doesn't know what group B wants. Group B doesn't know what a one. And you have to negotiate with each other. And you do this one on ones.
- [61:01]
B
Yeah.
- [61:02]
A
And one of the worst things you can do in negotiation is talk because the other person is already skipped you. All their stuff that they prepared this whole time is stuck in their head. So they're not gonna listen to anything you say at all until they get the crap out of their head. So you walk in and then you're just listening to their pain point. What do they really want? And then just assume. And again, this is the only time I will talk about pronouns. That's when you start using. You don't use you and you use we. It's okay.
- [61:25]
B
How.
- [61:25]
A
How do we get to the point? And you, you become the same people on the same team to go after a certain thing.
- [61:29]
B
And like I, I wrote a book without a. Called Without a Plan. And like, it pisses my staff off. But like, like what you said is 100% right. I don't go into. I don't prep for meetings. I'm not unprepared, but I don't prep. And like, this is how it's going to go. Because every time it doesn't go that way. Oh, every so like. But it can go better. You're going in for a distribution deal and it can turn into a merger. Right. I mean there. But you have to be open to it. And that's it. So I agree 100%. Going silence is magical.
- [62:02]
A
And then you identify their pain, identify what their pain is, identify what they want. And then in the process of giving them what they want, you get what you want. Happens every single time. But these are techniques and strategies that most people don't know. And they need to sit down and they need to work with someone. They need to find a coach, they need to find someone that they can strategize with and they need to find someone that they can connect with who's been there. And again, if you're searching for someone as you're going through this, find someone who's proven by having failures. So, so if people want to track you down, if people want to get a hold of you, what is the best way to do that?
- [62:31]
B
So I'm Jeremy Estelk on all socials, jeremydelk.com check out the book. It's on Audible and Barnes and Noble, Amazon, wherever you get books. And yeah, reach out jeremydelk.com, you can go book a discovery call and you got a really interesting business idea. You're going through something if you're just starting out, probably not the guy for you if everything's going really well. Not the guy. Like I like the dumpster fires and like shit's fucking falling apart. Like that's, that, that's fun.
- [63:05]
A
All right, man. I really appreciate you coming out and being so vulnerable and talking about it because there's a bunch of people who will just show you the shiny stuff and there's not authenticity but the people who are actually proven, the people who actually have done this. Oh yeah, we've had our, we've had our bumps and our bruises and you know, I think the biggest takes away are, you know, know, get your ego out of the way, get there. Understands. Yeah, just keep fighting the fight and getting back up.
- [63:27]
B
That's right.
- [63:27]
A
I mean, I really appreciate you. Thank you so much for coming on.
- [63:30]
B
Appreciate it. Thank you.
- [63:31]
A
Hey guys, I hope you enjoyed that episode hearing about Jeremy who's a father, a husband, an entrepreneur, an investor, an author, a speaker. He does it all. But more importantly, what he does is he gives. He gives so much. So if you want to get in touch with him, reach out to jeremydelk.com we're going to do follow ups on this where there was a much longer conversation that happened off camera that we're debating about publishing with you. But for now, thank you guys so much. I hope you enjoyed the episode. It like your favorite startup's growth curve, T Mobile's coverage keeps scaling because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network switch. Now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to 4 lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus days. Device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required card is no cash access. It expires and sex month.
- [64:25]
B
Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway, give it a try. @mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first three months only, then full price plan on options available, taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.
- [64:55]
A
Com.