Are You Going UP or Are You Going DOWN? Bible “Errors” Won’t Save You

Summary

Podcast Summary:

I Don't Have Enough FAITH to Be an ATHEIST
Episode: Are You Going UP or Are You Going DOWN? Bible “Errors” Won’t Save You
Host: Dr. Frank Turek
Date: September 9, 2025

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Brief Overview

In this thought-provoking episode, Frank Turek presents a version of his church talk at Grace Community Church, Sarasota, crystallizing the core of Christian belief: Are you going up or down after you die, and does the existence of supposed Bible "errors" undermine Christianity? Using the story of the Titanic as a powerful illustration, Dr. Turek dismantles the idea that minor inconsistencies invalidate eyewitness accounts, both in history and in Scripture. He answers the skeptical question: Can we trust the resurrection account, and does the reality of biblical miracles stand up to scrutiny?

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction & Set-Up (00:03–07:21)

• Frank introduces the context: he was invited to Grace Community Church by Pastor Chip Bennett to give a talk following a series on heaven.
• The purpose: To answer "Why should people give their lives to Christ?" especially in light of the message of heaven.
• Chip Bennett offers an enthusiastic, personal introduction, underlining Frank’s tenacity in defending Christian faith even in hostile environments.

2. The Critical Question: What If Heaven Doesn't Exist? (07:24–09:18)

• Frank engages the audience with a hard-hitting existential query:

  “If heaven doesn’t exist, we’re wasting our time here right now..." (07:24)

• He quotes 1 Corinthians 15: If Christ is not risen, faith is useless, and sins are unforgiven.

3. Are Miracles, Especially Resurrection, Possible? (09:18–13:25)

• Skepticism about biblical miracles is common, especially the resurrection.
• Frank proposes that the greatest miracle is not the resurrection, but Genesis 1:1—Creation from nothing—which even renowned physicists like Stephen Hawking acknowledge as a true beginning (Big Bang).
  • Quote:

  “The greatest miracle in the Bible is the first verse: ‘In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.’” (10:38)

• If a spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful, personal, and intelligent being exists, miracles are possible.

4. Apparent Contradictions and Eyewitness Testimony (13:41–18:47)

• Frank addresses common objections (esp. from skeptics like Bart Ehrman) regarding contradictions in gospel accounts about the resurrection.
• Lists famous “contradictions,” e.g., who was at the tomb, what was seen, timing details, etc.

5. The Titanic Analogy: Discrepant Reports Don't Invalidate the Event (16:12–23:35)

• Frank compares the gospel testimony to newspaper accounts of the Titanic sinking.
  • Different newspapers reported varying casualty numbers and details—but the essential truth (the Titanic sank) remains undoubted.

  “What should we conclude from these seemingly contradictory accounts? The Titanic sank. Thank you. Hey, we got that down, right?” (19:14)

• The point: Contradictory details are normal in eyewitness testimony; agreement on essentials is what matters.

6. Dealing with Alleged Bible Errors (23:14–29:49)

• Uses examples to explain that differences among eyewitnesses do not equate to falsehood or fabrication.
• Introduces J. Warner Wallace’s “Cold Case Christianity”:
  • True eyewitnesses agree on the big picture but often differ on details.

  “Any judge...that hears two witnesses describe something in exactly the same words...immediately assumes collusion.” (23:35)

• Motive check: The disciples had no reason (sex, money, power) to invent the resurrection; rather, they faced persecution for proclaiming it.

7. Christianity is Rooted in an Event, not Just a Book (29:49–34:10)

• Christianity is not true “because the Bible says so;” rather, the Bible exists because of the resurrection event.

• Thousands were Christians before the New Testament was written—because of personal experience or eyewitness testimony.

  “The New Testament writers did not create the resurrection. The Resurrection created the New Testament writers.” (32:39)

8. Returning to the Titanic: The Reality of Death and Hell (34:10–37:26)

• Revisits the Titanic at the bottom of the ocean as a metaphor for “outer darkness”—a biblical description of hell.

  “We’re all going down at some point. We’re not going to be here anymore. We deny that... but we’re going down.” (35:43)

• Only Christ saves from this fate; salvation is not automatic, but a gift to be accepted.

  “There’s only one Savior, and thankfully he rose from the dead.” (37:11)

• Key reflective question posed to skeptics:

  “If Christianity were true, would you become a Christian?” (37:06)

9. Invitation and Application (37:26–40:24)

• Chip Bennett reiterates the uniqueness of the resurrection as the explanatory key for Christianity’s existence.

• Underscores the emptiness of worldly pursuits and the urgency of deciding one’s eternal direction.

  “When you die and ... stand before God, what are you gonna be able to say? ... God, the only reason I can get in is because your son died for me.” (39:50)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Frank Turek (09:04):
  “If Christ hasn’t been raised, there’s no heaven. There’s no ultimate meaning to life.”
• Frank Turek (10:38):
  “The greatest miracle in the Bible is the first verse: ‘In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. If that verse is true, every other verse is at least possible.’”
• Frank Turek (19:14):
  “What should we conclude from these seemingly contradictory accounts? The Titanic sank. Thank you. Hey, we got that down, right? The Titanic sank.”
• Frank Turek (23:35):
  “Any judge... that hears two witnesses describe something in exactly the same words with all the details the same immediately assumes collusion.”
• Frank Turek (32:39):
  “The New Testament writers did not create the resurrection. The Resurrection created the New Testament writers.”
• Frank Turek (35:43):
  “We’re all going down at some point. We’re not going to be here anymore. We deny that... but we’re going down.”
• Frank Turek (37:06):
  “If Christianity were true, would you become a Christian?”
• Chip Bennett (39:50):
  “When you die and you wake up and you stand before God, what are you gonna be able to say?...The only reason I can get in is because your son died for me. He took my sin and gave me his righteousness.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Introduction & Purpose: 00:03–07:21
• Existential Questions & Heaven: 07:24–09:18
• Miracles & Creation: 09:18–13:25
• Bible Contradictions & Bart Ehrman: 13:41–16:12
• Titanic Analogy: 16:12–23:14
• Eyewitness Testimony & Motive: 23:14–29:49
• Christianity Rooted in Resurrection: 29:49–34:10
• Titanic & Hell Metaphor: 34:10–37:26
• Invitation to Respond: 37:26–40:24

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Final Thoughts

Frank Turek’s episode argues that the central tenet of Christianity—the resurrection—is not disproved by the presence of minor discrepancies in eyewitness accounts. Just as the sinking of the Titanic is historical fact despite conflicting initial reports, so, too, is the resurrection grounded in the heart of Christian belief. The main takeaway: Don’t let “errors” in the details sink you; focus on the central truth and decide whether you will trust the One who claims to offer the only lifeboat.

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For listeners interested in further study, Frank referenced resources like "I Don’t Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist," "Cold Case Christianity," and offered his presentation slides via QR code or text.

Transcript

[Frank Turek]

Ladies and gentlemen, a couple of weeks ago I went down to Florida. One of my favorite churches is Grace Community Church in Sarasota, Florida. My friend Dr. Chip Bennett is the pastor there. We've had Chip on the program several times. Great insights into the scriptures. In fact, just a few weeks ago, we had him and Dr. Warren Gage on talking about the book of Revelation and its connection to the conquest at Jericho. I know that sounds like you haven't heard about that before. We'll go back and look at the podcast, two of them actually, on the book of Revelation. And he asked me to go down there and speak on a. A Sunday, Saturday night, Sunday, all the services.

And he had just got gotten done.

Speaking on heaven, several messages on heaven. And he said, frank, can you do a message on why, given the fact that we just did this series on heaven, why people ought to give their lives to Christ?

And you got 30 minutes, that's all you got.

And so it was, it was my.

Best attempt to provide some evidence as.

To why people should become Christians.

And there indeed is a heaven.

What I want to do is play.

You that presentation here on the podcast today.

For those of you that are listening, it's quite a visual presentation, so you.

May want to go to our YouTube channel and watch this presentation because I'm using some imagery. We're going to talk a lot about errors in the Bible, actually, and why.

Even if there were errors in the.

Bible, it doesn't defeat Christianity. And we're going to compare evidence from the New Testament documents to evidence we got from the sinking of the Titanic. You're going to see how all this fits together. Before I get there, I do want to tell you of a couple of things that have come up. I've been talking for a while a little bit about Brave Books. Brave Books makes great books for kids.

Anywhere between the ages of 2 and 10.

And they're providing lessons for kids in story form on how to live the Christian life. And I've been privileged with the team there to put together a new book. This is for kids, you know, 2 to 10. My grandkids love these things. This is the new one. It's called Milo's Mission. I'm the author of it along with the team at Brave Books, and it teaches kids about responsibility. And if you sign up, you'll get a. A new book every month. Go to bravebooks, Dot I think it's us. If you, if you search for Brave Books, you'll find it and you can get this book for free. Milo's Mission It's a story about responsibility. It's something you need to teach your kids. Early, early on, everybody wants to get all the accolades for doing the big showy things, but they want to skip over the things that they ought to be doing that are maybe rote, they're just maybe chores. But if you want to actually be responsible for something big, you've got to demonstrate you're ready to be responsible in the little things. And that's what this book, Milo's Mission talks about. So check it out. I also want to mention, by the way, that our our fall tour of college campuses is about to begin. The first one is going to be at Western Carolina University, just to the west of Asheville, North Carolina. We were there last year. This year we're going to do if there's a good God, why is there Evil? That's going to be the 17th of September, 7pm everybody's welcome. Of course it will be live streamed, so if you're not anywhere near that area, you can watch it. Then the following week we're going to be at McNeese State University. That's in, I believe Lake Charles, Louisiana. That's the 23rd, the 24th. I'll be at Little Cypress Maurice High School, that is in Orange, Texas. And the next night Lamar University in Beaumont, Texas. That's the 25th of September. Also want to point out that on the 15th of September we're resuming our series called the Bible you never knew. It will be live stream 7:30pm Eastern Time, Charlotte, North Carolina, actually, just north of Charlotte. All the details are on our website. Happens to be at Freedom House Church in Cornelius. So if you're anywhere near the Charlotte area, you want to be a part of it, love to see you there. But it's also going to be live streamed, so check all that out. That's what's coming up here@cross examine.org now what I'm going to do is we're going to dive right into this presentation and Dr. Chip Bennett is going to close us out at the end. According to Dr. Chip, it's not because of me. I'm not an evangelist. But he came out and gave an invitation and several people did come forward. So praise God for that. So I'm calling this presentation that you're about to hear, are you going up or are you going down? Because all of us are going to expire at some point. Where are we going to go? Are we going to go up or are we going to go down? That's up to you. Here we go, you all are getting.

[Chip Bennett]

Ready to be blessed by a really good personal friend of mine. It's. It's hard to get him because he's. He's always booked out for a long time, but we talk regularly. I consider him to be a good friend, and he's one of those friends. I don't know if you have friends like this in your life where you can go, you know, have a meal and you can punch each other and fight and get into it and disagree and there's blood on the table, and when you're done, you're still smiling and you. And you love each other and everything's great. If you don't have friends like that, you need friends like that because it's good to have people that you can really get down to business with. You know, they make you better. You make them better. And this is a friend that, you know, we love it. We love scripture, we love debate, we love all of it. And it's fun to be able to have a friend like this in my life. But he's. In my opinion, he's the best at what he does, which is to defend the faith. And he does it in some of the most hostile environments that you can imagine. He goes to colleges all over America. And, I mean, they gang up on him. They know he's coming, and they gang up on him, and they go at him hard. And he's hard, too. You know, he's as straight as it can be. But he does a great job at what he does. And countless, countless kids across America come to faith because of this guy and what he does. He debates the biggest atheists. He's on the front line of defending the faith. And I think you're going to be blessed because he's going to give you something today that you will absolutely love. And you'll be able to root yourself in many ways in it. It's going to be deep, profound, but it's going to be something you can easily understand. But I promise you, you'll walk out of here better than when you came in. So can we give a really good grace Community church Welcome to Dr. Frank Turek?

[Frank Turek]

Go get him, man.

[Chip Bennett]

Love you, buddy.

[Frank Turek]

I often say to Pastor Chip, what I'm going to say you're going to disagree with, but that's okay. You have a right to be wrong. You know, Pastor Chip's been preaching lately on heaven, past couple of weeks. My question is, what if heaven doesn't exist? We wasted our time the past couple of weeks. In fact, if heaven doesn't exist. We're wasting our time here right now, in fact. Do you realize that everyone you love will die. Everything you build will crumble. Everything you say will be forgotten. Everything you do will come to nothing. You and your identity will die and vanish unless the resurrection is true. If there is no resurrection, we're wasting our time here today. And Paul, writing to the church at Corinth in his first letter, chapter 15, said that explicitly. Here's what he said. He said, if Christ has not been raised, then all our preaching is useless and your faith is useless. And we apostles would be lying about God. For we have said that God raised Christ from the grave. But. But that can't be true. If there is no resurrection of the dead. And if there is no resurrection of.

The dead, then Christ has not been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, then your faith is useless and you are still guilty of your sins. You are still guilty of your sins if Christ has not been raised.

And if Christ hasn't been raised, there's no heaven. There's no.

There's no ultimate meaning to life. So I want to ask a couple of questions. First question I want to ask, is the resurrection even possible? Because in today's world, we don't think miracles are possible.

Especially on a college campus where I spend a lot of my time. Oh, miracles don't occur. They don't happen at all. And the miracles in the Bible, can.

We just admit they're kind of crazy? Some people believe miracles are impossible. Like Noah. Can we admit that Noah and the ark is crazy?

Come on. And a resurrection. How many people in this room have.

Seen someone rise from the dead after you knew they were dead for at least 36 hours?

Yeah, none of us. Why? Because it doesn't happen yet. If you're a Christian, you have to believe something none of us have ever seen. How rational is that? And for some reason, the big problem miracle in the Bible is Jonah. Is that a tail of a whale or a whale of a tail? Can you really believe in Jonah? I mean, that's crazy. Well, ladies and gentlemen, what is the greatest miracle in the Bible? This is the interactive portion of the program. What is the greatest miracle in the Bible? No, it's not the resurrection. The resurrection is easy compared to the greatest miracle. What is it? Someone said it. The greatest miracle in the Bible is the first verse. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. If that verse is true, every other verse is at least possible. And you know the interesting thing? Even atheists are admitting the Evidence for the first verse. Stephen Hawking, who was probably the top physicist in the world until he died six or seven years ago, put it this way. He said, almost everyone now believes that the universe and time itself is. Had a beginning at the Big Bang. Now, I know some of you Christians are going, frank, we don't believe in the Big Bang. You guys don't believe in the Big Bang. I believe in the Big Bang. I just know who banged it. In fact, the evidence for the Big Bang is so good, most atheists will agree space, time and matter had a beginning out of nothing. Now, Hawking tried to come up with another explanation other than God. He failed, but he's admitting the evidence. And if space, time and matter had a beginning out of nothing, what could have caused that? Only something outside of space, time and matter. In other words, the cause must be spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful to create the universe out of nothing personal in order to choose to create, because to go from a state of nothingness to a state of creation, someone had to make a choice. And only persons can make choices. The cause would also have to be intelligent to have a mind to make a choice. Now, ladies and gentlemen, when you think about a spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful, personal, intelligent cause, who do you think of? One person thinks of God. Are you guys awake? You say, okay, it seems like God, but how do you know it's the Christian God, Frank? We don't. Yet one argument from the beginning of the universe doesn't show you it's the Christian God. This could be Allah or some other theistic or deistic God. But if Jesus really rose from the dead, if there's evidence he rose from the dead, then you can say that the same being that walked out of the Tomb 1992 years ago is the same being in whose divine nature created the universe out of nothing. So the question is, did Jesus really rise from the dead? All we've established to this point is that if Genesis 1:1 is true, these.

Miracles are at least possible. Of course, Noah's crazy. Unless God exists. Of course, Jonah's a fairy tale. Unless God exists. Of course, resurrections don't happen unless God exists.

And the evidence suggests that God does exist. So a miracle can be used to confirm a message from God. That's what miracles are used for.

But some will say, well, Frank, you.

Know, we don't see no one here has seen a resurrection.

Why should we even believe they happen?

Well, ladies and gentlemen, for a miracle.

To be effective, it has to be rare.

If miracles occurred all the time.

We wouldn't think they're special acts of God. We'd say, hey, this stuff happens all the time. I mean, imagine if resurrections occurred routinely.

And you went to somebody and you.

Went, hey, Jesus rose from the dead to prove he was God. And the guy goes, so what? Uncle George just rose from the dead two weeks ago? Now I gotta give the inheritance back?

No, it's gotta be a rare event if it's gonna get our attention. These things can't be happening all the time. The crowning miracle of Christianity is the resurrection. So resurrections have to be extremely rare, if they happen at all. But at least we know they're possible. Because if God exists, if Genesis 1:1 is true, miracles can be used to confirm a message from God. And that's what the resurrection of Jesus does. It shows us that he is God and he speaks for God. And if we follow him, we'll wind up in heaven because we trust in him. But the next question is, okay, it's possible, but did Jesus really rise from the dead? And if you go to universities like I do, you're going to run into people like Bart Ehrman, who is a atheist professor who used to be a Christian, teaches at UNC Chapel Hill, has written some skeptical books against Christianity. And he doesn't think miracles are possible. So he's ruling out miracles in advance, illegitimately, in my view, because if God exists, miracles are possible. But he also cites the idea that there are miracles or there are contradictions in the Bible. And that's why he can't. Another reason he can't believe in miracles. In fact, in a debate he had with a Christian philosopher by the name of William Lane Craig, he said this in the debate. He said, did Jesus die on the day before the Passover meal was eaten, as John explicitly says, or did he die after it was eaten, as Mark explicitly says? Did he die at noon, as in John, or at 9am as in Mark? Did Jesus carry his cross the entire way himself, or did Simon of Cyrene carry his cross? It depends on which gospel you read. Did the curtain in the temple rip in half before Jesus died or after he died? It depends on which gospel you read.

Who went to the tomb on the third day?

Was it Mary alone, or was it.

Mary with the other women? If it was Mary with the other.

Women, how many other women were there, or which ones were they and what were their names?

Was the stone rolled away before they.

Got there or not? What did they see in the tomb?

Did they see a man?

Did they see two men or did.

They see an angel?

It depends on which account you read. There's too many contradictions here. This can't be true. Here's the question. Is the Bible a house of cards? In other words, if you find one thing you can't explain or one detail that appears to contradict with another detail or one contradiction, you think this is a contradiction and you can't explain it, does that mean everything in the Bible must be false? Bart Ehrman thought so. He was brought up to believe that everything you have to be able to explain. And if you can't explain it, you might as well throw the whole thing away. It's a house of cards. I want to show you why that is faulty thinking. And in order to do that, we've got to go back to April 15, 1912. If you think April 15 is a bad day for you, it was a lot worse for these people on the Titanic, the maiden voyage. Coming across the Atlantic on their fifth day, they ran into an iceberg, as you know, and a lot of people died. How many people died? Well, let's take a look at the newspaper reports. Pay attention to the numbers. Boston Daily globe. Titanic sinks 1500 die. Carpathia, which was a ship in the area that got the distress call, they came over to pick the people up in the lifeboats. Carpathia picks up 675 out of 2200. It races for New York, mostly women and children. The New York Times put it this way. Titanic sinks four hours after hitting an iceberg. 866 rescued. That's a different number by Carpathia. Probably 1250 perish. And then they mentioned some prominent people on the ship. The NORC Advocate said, worst ocean disaster in world's history. Titanic goes down 1341 lives are lost. Wait a minute. We started with 1500, then we went to another number. Now we're at 1341.

868 survivors are picked up by the.

Carpathia and then the Washington post.

They say 1800 souls are lost and only 675 are saved. This is crazy.

They're not getting any of this right. They're disagreeing everywhere. In fact, look at the numbers. What's the right number? Did 1500 die?

Did 1250 died? Did 1341 die?

How about 1,800? How many were rescued?

675, 866, 868.

675.

They can't all be right. Not only that, the eyewitnesses, the survivors disagreed on how the Titanic sank.

This Picture.

This sketch was drawn on the Carpathia just hours after it went down.

And some said it struck the iceberg and then it went down whole. Others said it broke in two and then went down. They both can't be right. So what should we conclude from these seemingly contradictory accounts? What should we conclude? The Titanic sank. Thank you. Hey, we got that down right. The Titanic sank. They agree on the big picture, don't they? What do they disagree on? Well, they disagree on details. Do you know what the, you know what the right answer is? We still don't know. We still don't know. How many people died? It's somewhere between 1500 and like 1517. We don't know if we have the right manifest. We don't know. We still don't know. But what do we know? The Titanic sank. Also, these contradictory accounts, apparent contradictory accounts, can be reconciled if you have the information. You just got to know what the right information is. And in fact, the same is true when it comes to alleged Bible errors. Let's just look at one of the alleged Bible errors that Bart Ehrman brought up down here where he says, at the tomb, did they see a man, did they see two men or did they see an angel? It depends on which account you read. Actually. One gospel says there were two angels at the tomb, another says there was one. Is that a contradiction? Is it? Let me ask you a question. There were two reporters in this room and after this service they wrote a story and they said Frank Turek spoke. One of them said Frank Turek spoke and another said Chip Bennett and Frank Turek spoke. Would those two accounts be contradictory or complementary? They're complementary, right? The one doesn't say only Frank Turek spoke. You'd have to add a word to make it contradictory. Look, if there were two angels at the tomb, there certainly was one. Now there are books written on this. My co author, Dr. Geisler wrote a book called, it used to be called when critics asked. Now it's called the Big Book of Bible Difficulties where they go through so many of these alleged contradictions and point out they're not really contradictory. And even in ones you can't figure out doesn't mean they're necessarily contradictory. But, but let me say, let's suppose even in some details they are. Does that mean Jesus didn't rise from the dead? No, just like it doesn't mean the Titanic didn't sink just because we disagree on the number of people that were killed. So if you look at eyewitness details, you will always have Eyewitnesses agreeing on the essentials and disagreeing on on the details. And my friend J. Warner Wallace, you may know him, he's a cold case homicide detective who's been on Dateline more than any other homicide detective because he solves murders that are decades old. And Jim is also a Christian. He's taken his homicide skills and he applied them to the greatest homicide of all time, the homicide of Jesus. And he wrote a book called Cold Case Christianity and several others. His website is Cold Case Christianity. Anyway, Jim says this. He says, when I get to a crime scene and I've got eyewitnesses, I immediately separate them. You sit in this car. You sit in this car. Never put them together.

Why?

What do they wind up doing if they're sitting together? Hey, what did you see? Hey, what did you see? Was he wearing a red jacket or an orange one? I said it was orange. Maybe you're right. I thought it was red. Okay, it's orange. They try and get their story straight. You don't want that. You want every detail just as they say it was. And sometimes you can't reconcile them. That's okay.

What do they all agree on?

Yeah, he shot the guy. I saw that. You want these alleged contradictory details. You don't want to get their story straight. In fact, Jim says that any judge in his courtroom that hears two witnesses describe something in exactly the same words with all the details the same immediately assumes collusion. They got together to get their story straight. Eyewitnesses who are true eyewitnesses agree on the main things, disagree on details. This is always the case. And that's what you have in the New Testament. You know, the New Testament writers didn't get together to iron out details, did they? They just told it like they saw it. Jim also says that whenever he finds a body that he knows has been murdered, he says, I don't need to track down a thousand possible motivations for why that guy's dead. I know that guy was murdered for one or more of these three reasons. There was either a sex issue, a money issue, or a power issue. Sex, money or power. Those are the three things that can drive people to murder. In fact, they're the same three things that drive any of us to sin. Why? Because sex, money and power are good things. In fact, they're so good, we'll often take shortcuts to get them. That's why we sin. In fact, one, John. John says this. Don't love the world. Cause all that's in the world is the Lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the boastful pride of life, money, sex and power. So Jim says, if you're going to say that these Jews, Jews wrote the New Testament, you realize that they already thought they were God's chosen people. They had their own religion already. If you think that these Jews invented the resurrection, you've got to find one or more of those three motivators, because they're not gonna get. They're not gonna make up a story that contradicts their belief system and then gets them beaten, tortured and killed. Getting beaten, tortured and killed is not a list of perks, last time I checked. Right. So Jim says, hey, if you're gonna say they made it up, it's gotta be a sex, money or power motivation. All right, let's take a look at it, ladies and gentlemen. Did the New Testament writers suddenly get real popular with the ladies for saying Jesus had risen from the dead? No, they didn't get sex. Did they get money? No, they weren't 21st century prosperity gospel preachers. Did they get power? No, they got the opposite of power. They got persecution. Paul had power when he was Saul. And persecuting the church, as soon as he becomes a believer, he's the one persecuted. They didn't get sex, they didn't get money, they didn't get power. There's no motive to make this up. In fact, there's every motive to say it wasn't true. Not every motive to say it was true. The bottom line is they're not making this up. It appears the resurrection really did take place. In fact, let's go back to the Titanic for just a second question. Which came first, the sinking or the reports of the sinking? This is not a trick question. Right? The sinking took place, then the reports came. Next question, which came first, the resurrection or the reports of the resurrection? The resurrection came first, then the reports came. In fact, I know this might sound like heresy for those of you who believe, like I do, that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, but it's not. Stick with me. Christianity is not true because a series of documents we put under one binding we call the Bible says it's true. In fact, Christianity would be true if the Bible never existed. You say, how can that be? Ladies and gentlemen, do you realize there were thousands of Christians before a line of the New Testament was ever written? Why? Because they didn't read about it in a book. They witnessed a resurrected Jesus themselves or they knew people who had. Christianity did not originate with a book Christianity originated with an event, the Resurrection. The stories of the Titanic did not originate with the Washington Post. They originated when the Titanic went down, then they told the story. In fact, we could put it this way. The New Testament writers did not create the resurrection. The Resurrection created the New Testament writers. You wouldn't have these documents written down by Jews in the first century claiming a man claimed to be God and wrote from the dead, unless a man really did claim to be God and really did rise from the dead. So the evidence appears to show us that Jesus really did rise from the dead. There's no motive to invent this. There's every motive to say it wasn't true, yet they said it was. Now, I haven't really given you a lot of evidence for this. If you want a lot of evidence for it, I brought the book. I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. I co wrote with Dr. Geiser a number of years ago. And I want to point out all the proceeds from the sale of the books are going to feed needy children. Mine. Okay, Just so you know, and I'm going to send you the entire PowerPoint presentation, if you follow that QR code. I'm going to send you this presentation and about a dozen others in a PDF format for free. And if that doesn't work, you can text the word evidence to that phone number, 855-909-0582 and you'll get the same presentations in a PDF format. By the way, this book argues from the ground up, does truth exist? You know, hear people saying there's no truth. That kind of stuff. We deal with that. We deal with evidence for God. We deal with evidence for miracles, evidence for the resurrection, and evidence that the Bible's the word of God. So it argues from the ground up that Christianity is indeed true. But in our last few minutes together, I want to go back to the Titanic. You know, we discovered the Titanic in 1985. Robert Ballard discovered where it went down. And it's down under 12,500ft of water. That's over two miles down. This is, of course, the bow of the ship. And we also discovered that the people, the eyewitnesses who said it broke in two were correct because the bow of the ship was discovered in one part and the stern about 2,000 yards away. It broke in two and went down like this and separated. So they're almost, they're a little over a mile away, the front of the ship and the back of the ship. And we sent submersibles down there These are unopened champagne bottles. You can see this crab here. These are shoes. There's all sorts of personal effects down there. And they've taken over 700,000 pictures. It's hard to. You can't, the thing's so big you can't get it really in one picture because there's not enough light down there. And so they took a bunch, they took 700,000 close up pictures, put them in a computer and developed a composite. Here's what it looks like. That's the front and the mid. The stern is a mile away. And in fact the staircase you probably saw in the movie, if you saw the movie, right, the grand staircase that went six levels up, they found out where that is. It's a hole. Right now. Here are the shoes, here are the champagne bottles. Now these people were living in luxury. They didn't know they were going down. Obviously they had no idea. They thought this was the unsinkable ship. But we're kind of living in luxury here, aren't we? I mean, Sarasota is a beautiful area. We've got everything that we think we need temporally. But we know we're going down. We're all going down at some point. We're not going to be here anymore. We deny that. We make believe like, no, we're not going to die, but we're going down. Do you know one metaphor the Bible uses for hell is outer darkness. Outer darkness. I can't think of a place on earth that's more dark, more remote and has more pressure than where the Titanic is right now. It's more than two miles under the ocean. We have sent some submersibles down there. In fact, was it a year or two when they tried to put one down? The whole thing imploded on itself. We have gotten some video. I'm going to show you about a minute worth of video of outer darkness. This is the deck of the Titanic today. Here it is. Frank, you're just trying to scare me with hell. Hell? Yes, I am. Why? Because hell is real. It has to be real. Why is it real? Because God is an infinitely just being. If he's an infinitely just being, he has to punish sin. Is anyone in here sinless? Which means he has to punish you because he's infinitely just. I mean, when we say we're saved, what does that mean? Means we're saved from the wrath of God. None of us in here are good. Oh, you may be better than your neighbor, but you're still evil. Jesus said there's only One that's good and that's God. So if you think you're gonna skip through life enjoying yourself and it's all gonna work out in the end, there's no lifeboat for you unless you accept Jesus. But he doesn't just take you to shore. He just doesn't take you to safety. He takes you to heaven. That's why he came. If he didn't come to do that, if he didn't come to rise from the dead, take our punishment upon Himself, then our faith is useless and you are still guilty in your sins. But he did come to do that. He went down on the cross and took our punishment upon Himself. And by trusting in him, you're not only forgiven, you're given his righteousness. If Christ has not been raised, then your faith is useless and you are still guilty in your sins. You're still guilty. Thankfully, he has been raised. But God is not going to force you into heaven against your will. If you don't want him now, you're not going to want him in eternity. If you're still on the run, trying to do it your own way, trying to save yourself, and it's not going to work. It's like trying to swim to shore from where the Titanic went down. Not going to work. The question is, what are you going to do with it? Are you going to accept the only solution that can save you, the only lifeboat that can save you? Or are you just going to keep doing things your own way? You know what question I ask a lot of students on college campuses? Who are skeptics going to ask to you right now? If you're not a Christian, if Christianity were true, would you become a Christian? If the answer is no, Jesus could appear to you and you would still say no because you want to go your own way, Fine, you can go your own way. You're going to go down because you deserve to go down, just like I deserve to go down. There's only one Savior, and thankfully he rose from the dead. And. And Pastor Chip's going to give you an opportunity to accept Him. Pastor Chip.

[Chip Bennett]

Thanks, Frank. So the most plausible explanation for why Christianity exists is because of the Resurrection. It's the only thing that makes sense for why the Jewish people would have responded the way that they did, ultimately would have died for that. And, you know, Frank always asked the question, if you. If Christianity is true, would you be a Christian? If you say no, then you're not being intellectually honest with yourself. You're just saying you just don't want to Accept the reality of the that fact. Fact as a general rule. And I just. I just would say to you that, you know, what we do here at Grace, I mean, this is really the most important thing, is to make sure that nobody that comes here or is around here or hears anything that we do somehow doesn't get to hear the gospel. I remember when we first started the church, long, long time ago, we had moved up to Lakewood Ranch. And I remember it wasn't long after we got here. I made a statement on the platform, and I still make it. I'm like, I want Grace Community Church to be a church that does what it does, acts the way it acts, does the good things that it does. Because I want to make it really difficult for anybody to go to hell in Lakewood Ranch. I want to make it incredibly difficult for anybody to think that way. I want them to know Jesus and I want them to see what. Why Jesus makes a difference in our lives. And, you know, I don't know, maybe today, this is your moment. You know, the resurrection is true. Jesus did rise from the dead, and he wants to give us life. And we all are looking for it. We know that deep down inside, if you're not a believer right now, you know, you're looking for life. You need that next thing. And then when you get that next thing, you need another thing. And then you tell your, you know, family, friends, spouse, whatever, I just. If I could just get this, I'll be happy. You get that. And then it doesn't make you happy. You know, I can see through the doors there. There's an ambulance outside. I have no idea what happened, but one day, all of us are going to be there. One day. One day we're going to be picked up and we're not going to maybe in the hospital, maybe, whatever.

[Frank Turek]

We're all.

[Chip Bennett]

We're all going to die, every one of us. And the biggest question in the world, when you die and you wake up and you stand before God, what are you gonna be able to say? And if it's not, I put my trust in Jesus. I believed he died for my sins. I believe he rose again on the third day. There's not anything else that you can say when you stand before God. That's it. God, the only reason I can get in is because your son died for me. He took my sin and gave me his righteousness. And on that basis alone. Can I. Can I come in?

[Frank Turek]

Amen. Thank you, Dr. Chip. That's Dr. Chip Bennett with the invitation. Thanks for listening, ladies. And gentlemen, don't forget we have some online courses that you can still become a part of. Next week we start Digging up the Bible, all of the major archaeological discoveries from Genesis all the way to Revelation. And we're also doing let's Get Real. That's basically I don't have enough faith to be an atheist for kids. It begins also on September 8th. You can sign up for these courses after that if you're listening to this after that because the first zoom sessions don't start till the following week. And of course you can take both of those courses anytime you want in a self paced version. So check out Digging up the Bible and Let's Get Real. And ladies and gentlemen, don't forget, I'm going to be starting the fall tour on the 17th of September at Western Carolina University. I hope to see you there or here on the live stream. The live stream will be on our YouTube channel, the Cross Examine YouTube channel at 700pm Great being with you. Looking forward to seeing you next time. God bless.