Podcast Summary: "Jesus in the Old Testament? Look for These Clues! Plus Q&A"

I Don't Have Enough FAITH to Be an ATHEIST

Host: Dr. Frank Turek
Date: November 18, 2025

Episode Overview

Dr. Frank Turek explores the deep connections between the Old Testament and Jesus, focusing on typology, prophecy, and remarkable literary parallels. He details how Jesus is foreshadowed throughout the Old Testament, especially through characters like Joshua, and demonstrates the rich literary techniques that reinforce Christ’s centrality in Scripture. The episode also addresses listener questions on theological and philosophical topics including forgiveness, justice, and the origin of the universe.

1. The Old Testament Foreshadowing Jesus

The Bible’s Divine Structure

• Dr. Turek opens by affirming that a deeper examination of the scriptures reveals a divinely coordinated tapestry spanning centuries and continents.
• Key Point: "The scriptures written over 1500 years by 40 different authors on three different continents have a divine hand organizing all of these different writers over different times in different places." [06:37]

Jesus Interpreting the Old Testament

• On the road to Emmaus, Jesus explained to his disciples that all the Old Testament was about Him (Luke 24:27).
• Memorable Quote: "All the Old Testament is about me, Jesus. That's what he said." [09:07]

Literal vs. Literary Interpretation

• The Bible should be read “literally and literarily.”
  • Literally: Events really happened.
  • Literarily: God uses repeated themes, character traits, and events to foreshadow and reveal Christ.
• Example: Jesus as the door is a metaphor for salvation, not a physical description.

Typology: Old Testament Types of Christ

• Certain figures prefigure Jesus through their life events:
  • Adam: First man; Jesus as the Second Adam.
  • Isaac: Sacrificial son.
  • Joseph: Savior of his people.
  • Moses: Liberator from slavery; Jesus liberates from sin.
  • Joshua: Conqueror; parallels Christ’s second coming.
  • Others Mentioned: Boaz, David, Jonah, Daniel, Esther.

2. Joshua as a Type of Christ

Direct Parallels Between Joshua and Jesus [26:33]

• Same Name: Yeshua—the Hebrew for Joshua and Jesus.
• Succession of Moses: Both follow after Moses—Joshua literally, Jesus spiritually, bringing in a new covenant of grace.
• Sons of Joseph: Each is linked to a Joseph.
• Covenant Renewal: Joshua renews the Mosaic covenant; Jesus institutes a new covenant.
• Lord’s Armies: Both lead God’s armies.
• Confront Evil Cities: Joshua faced Jericho; Jesus faced Jerusalem.
• Two Representatives: Joshua—two spies; Jesus—two witnesses in Revelation.
• Saving Gentiles: Joshua saves Rahab (a Gentile); Jesus saves Gentiles.
• Entry into Promise: Joshua leads into the promised land; Jesus leads into heaven.

Notable Quote:

"Moses as a liberator is a type of Christ’s first coming, whereas Joshua as a conqueror is a type of Christ’s second coming." [33:09]

3. Jericho and Revelation: Striking Parallels

Key Parallels Between Jericho’s Conquest and Revelation

• Divine Warrior Appears with a Sword: Joshua meets the pre-incarnate Christ; John sees Christ with a sword in Revelation. [38:34]
• City Symbolism: Jericho (Joshua) and Jerusalem/Babylon, Sodom, and Egypt (Revelation 11:7-8) symbolize wealthy, evil, walled cities opposed to God.
• Prostitute Figure:
  • Jericho: Rahab, the Gentile prostitute, is saved.
  • Jerusalem: The “faithful prostitute” represents redeemed sinners (us).
• Sevens: Recurring motif in both, denoting divine completeness.
  • Joshua: 7 priests, 7 trumpets, 7 days, 7 circuits around the city on the 7th day.
  • Revelation: Numerous sevens (churches, trumpets, bowls, etc.), especially 7 trumpets announcing judgment.
• God Judges and Destroys Cities: By supernatural means, not human effort.
• Saving Out of Judgement: Call for the faithful to come out of the evil city (Revelation 18:4).

Dr. Turek observes:

"Once you see these parallels, you can't unsee it." [43:22]

4. Embarrassing Honesty in Scripture

• The Bible’s inclusion of uncomfortable, embarrassing stories about its heroes attests to its authenticity.
• Examples:
  • Rahab, the prostitute, included in Jesus’s genealogy (Matthew 1).
  • Bathsheba referenced as “Uriah’s wife.”
  • Tamar’s sordid story.
• Quote (Dennis Prager, as cited):

  "No people group would ever invent such an embarrassing history of themselves." [54:23]

5. Literary Devices—Chiasms

Definition & Importance

• Chiasm: A literary structure where the main point is at the center, with parallel ideas surrounding it (like a mirror).
• The Bible uses chiasms large and small to highlight key themes.

Illustrative Example:

• Ruth’s famous pledge is a chiasm with the center point: “Your people will be my people and your God, my God.” [01:00:36]
• The Gospel of Mark’s central message is at the Transfiguration:
  • Mark 9:7: "This is my son, whom I love. Listen to him." [01:03:10]

6. Listener Q&A

A. Forgiveness, Justice, and Abusive Past [01:08:05]

• Listener (Rebecca): Survived child abuse, wondered how she would react if she saw her abuser in heaven.
• Her insight:

  "...If I saw my abuser in heaven... seeing him would actually bring healing because then that would mean he realized that what he did was wrong, he was sorry and asked Jesus to forgive him." [01:11:29]

• Dr. Turek affirms this, emphasizing:
  • Christ’s sacrifice covers all sins—only appropriated by repentance.
  • In heaven, all animosity and pain are healed; everyone receives either justice (hell) or grace (heaven).
  • Grace is undeserved forgiveness; justice is deserved punishment—both are fair, but grace is better.
  • "There are only two things you can get in the afterlife: justice or grace." [01:15:23]

B. The Beginning of the Universe & Thermodynamics [01:20:24]

• Listener (Justin):
  • Asked about first and second laws of thermodynamics—how can Christians say energy was created?
• Answer:
  • The law that energy can be neither created nor destroyed applies within the universe (a closed system).
  • The beginning of the universe implies a source outside space, time, and matter—matching the attributes of God.
  • Quote:

    "If the laws of nature run this universe, you can't create or destroy energy. But that says nothing about whether there's something outside the universe that gave it energy to begin with." [01:26:46]

  • Dr. Turek references philosophical arguments (e.g., Kalam Cosmological Argument) and affirms that science and philosophy both demand a beginning caused by an uncaused, timeless, powerful, intelligent being.

7. Notable Quotes

• "The Bible is not just literally true, it's literarily true." [52:01]
• "No other city we know about has had walls fall down like that." (regarding Jericho’s archaeological evidence) [49:32]
• "Everyone’s going to live for eternity. The only question is where." [01:35:02]

8. Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Topic | Timestamp | |---------|-------|-----------| | 01:00 | Episode setup & upcoming events | [01:00] | | 06:37 | Bible’s authorship and divine structure | [06:37] | | 09:07 | Luke 24:27 – Jesus as center of OT | [09:07] | | 26:33 | Joshua as Type of Christ | [26:33] | | 38:34 | Christ’s cameo in Joshua and Revelation | [38:34] | | 43:22 | Sevens and parallels in Jericho and Revelation | [43:22] | | 54:23 | Embarrassing honesty in Scripture | [54:23] | | 01:00:36 | Chiasms explained | [01:00:36] | | 01:03:10 | Mark 9:7 – literary climax | [01:03:10] | | 01:08:05 | Listener Rebecca’s story | [01:08:05] | | 01:20:24 | Thermodynamics and the beginning of the universe | [01:20:24] | | 01:26:46 | Universe needs an external cause | [01:26:46] |

9. Tone and Takeaways

Dr. Turek’s tone is direct, pastoral, often personal, and unapologetically logical. He challenges listeners to look past surface readings and discover depth, consistency, and the divine narrative interwoven throughout Scripture. He encourages honest wrestling with doubts and affirms the intellectual credibility of the Christian worldview.

10. Memorable Moments

• Rebecca’s powerful reflection on forgiveness and heaven [01:11:29]
• The repeated motif: "Once you see these biblical parallels, you can’t unsee them." [43:22]
• The challenge to consider not just what is literally true, but what is "literarily" true in God’s Word.

Final Recommendation

For anyone interested in how Jesus is woven through the Old Testament, or how the Bible’s literary structures point to divine inspiration, this episode is rich with insight, encouragement, and apologetic substance.