Podcast Summary: "The Demon Delusion? Recent Evidence They Exist"

Podcast: I Don't Have Enough FAITH to Be an ATHEIST
Host: Dr. Frank Turek
Episode Date: September 2, 2025

Overview

In this thought-provoking episode, Dr. Frank Turek explores the existence and influence of demons, Satan, and spiritual evil, particularly in light of a recent tragic school shooting in Minneapolis. He discusses the dangers of both ignoring and obsessing over demonic forces, shares recent examples of what he sees as overt demonic activity, and draws extensively upon biblical teaching and apologetic reasoning to help listeners understand and resist spiritual deception. The episode also features insights from Pastor Josh Howerton, who analyzes evidence of demonic influence in recent events.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. C.S. Lewis and the Two Errors Regarding Demons

• Turek references C.S. Lewis' warning that there are "two equal and opposite errors" concerning beliefs about demons:
  • Disbelief: Ignoring or denying their existence.
  • Unhealthy Fascination: An obsessive interest in them.
• Quote (Lewis, paraphrased): "They themselves [demons] are equally pleased by both errors and hail a materialist or a magician with the same delight." (00:25)

2. Anecdotal Fallacy in Spiritual Matters

• Many dismiss spiritual realities because they've never personally experienced them—an "anecdotal fallacy."
  • "If you think that all of reality is described by just what you have experienced, your view of reality is going to be very much shrunk down from what actually is." (03:42)
• Learning about reality requires not just personal experience, but the testimony of others and revelation from God (either natural or special revelation).

3. The Nature and Manifestation of Evil Beyond Self-Interest

• Human evil often surpasses selfish motivations, suggesting external influence.
  • Examples: sex trafficking, sadistic terrorism, societal endorsement of abortion, etc.
  • "Human beings sometimes display a dark delight from malicious, gratuitous evil. That should make it obvious that there are demonic forces at work." (07:54)

4. Case Study: Minneapolis Catholic School Shooting

• Pastor Josh Howerton’s Insights (10:31 – 12:44):
  • Describes graphic details from the shooter’s materials: gun clips inscribed with messages like "Where is your God?" and "Israel must fall," imagery related to the crucifixion, and disturbing sketches.
  • Noted parallel between the shooter’s gender identity struggle and the biblical depiction of demons and angels as "non-binary."
  • Highlights the shooter's personal torment: a journal drawing showing a demon looking back at him in a mirror, with messages like "Who? When will this end? Help me. I don't want to help," and the demon replying "Kill yourself. Kill."
  • Quote (Howerton): "Sometimes the greatest argument for the existence of God and the truth of Christianity is the very obvious existence of demons." (12:05)

5. Satan and Demons from a Biblical Perspective

• Who is Satan?
  • Names/titles: Adversary (Matthew 4:10), Devil/Slanderer (Matthew 4:1), Evil One, Prince of this world, God of this age, Accuser of the brethren.
  • A fallen angel, powerful, created, not equal to God (Luke 10, 2 Peter 2).
• What does Satan do?
  • Tempts and deceives, blinds unbelievers (2 Corinthians 4:4), disguises himself as an "angel of light" (2 Corinthians 11:14), accuses believers, opposes the church, plants false teaching, stirs persecution.
• Demons:
  • Fallen angels aligned with Satan (Matthew 25:41), possess and torment people (Mark 5:1-20), cause physical/mental affliction (Matthew 17), encourage idolatry and false religion (1 Corinthians 10).
• Central Tactic: Deception and lies.
  • “If you know the truth, the truth will set you free...[but] lies, deception, delusions are keeping you in bondage.” (28:21)

6. Delusions and the Dangers of Affirming Lies

• Transgenderism and Societal Delusions
  • Turek asserts that embracing and affirming certain ideologies—specifically gender identity doctrine—constitutes falling prey to demonic deception.
  • “The worst thing we can do is affirm a lie, affirm a delusion.” (24:29)
  • Cites statistics about mental health and gender dysphoria, framing these as evidence of spiritual war and deception.

7. Jesus’ Teaching on Spiritual Bondage and Freedom (John 8)

• True freedom comes from knowing the truth (Jesus’ words), not from pursuing personal passion or desires.
  • “True freedom is not doing whatever you want…True freedom is having the power to do what you know you should do.” (34:45)
• Jesus describes Satan:
  • “He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” (37:11)
• Those who commit evil (referring to the shooter) are seen as doing the work of Satan.

8. Evidence for God and Spiritual Reality

• Three main arguments for God’s existence:
  • Cosmological: beginning of the universe.
  • Teleological: design of the universe and life.
  • Moral: presence of objective morality.
• Argues that moral revulsion at acts like school shootings points toward a real, objective standard—God.
  • “If it’s really objectively wrong, there has to be a standard that’s objectively right beyond us that we’re obligated to obey.” (43:12)

9. How Christians Should Respond: Armor of God and Spiritual Warfare

• Spiritual armor (Ephesians 6):
  • Belt of truth: imperative against Satan’s lies.
  • Breastplate of righteousness, shield of faith, helmet of salvation, sword of the Spirit (Word of God).
• Testing the spirits: “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God.” (1 John 4:1)
• Encouragement: “Greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world.” (1 John 4:4; 12:20)

10. Notable Final Advice and Theological Exhortation

• “Don’t follow what appears to sound good, but really is evil. Follow Jesus. Stay close to Jesus. Demonic activity is all around us.”
• Compassion for the deceived: Advocates praying for both victims and perpetrators, and seeking to bring truth gently yet firmly.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• C.S. Lewis on Demons:

  "There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them." (00:24)

• Frank Turek on Anecdotal Fallacy:

  "If you think that all of reality is described by just what you have experienced, your view of reality is going to be very much shrunk down from what actually is." (03:42)

• On Overt Evil:

  "Human beings sometimes display a dark delight from malicious, gratuitous evil. That should make it obvious that there are demonic forces at work." (07:54)

• Pastor Josh Howerton on the School Shooting:

  “This is the most overt demonic activity I’ve ever seen chronicled in the national news... It’s literally like somebody opened the Bible and went, what do demons do? And then they did that thing.” (10:34-12:07)

• Frank Turek on Deception:

  “Satan is a liar and a murderer, and only the truth can set any of us free from the bondage of these lies.” (24:29)

• On True Freedom (Frank Turek):

  “True freedom is having the power to do what you know you should do." (34:45)

• Jesus’ Words (as quoted):

  "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth... he is a liar and the father of lies." (37:11)

• On Moral Objectivity:

  “If it’s really objectively wrong, there has to be a standard that’s objectively right beyond us that we’re obligated to obey.” (43:12)

• Closing Exhortations:

  "Demons are not a delusion. You know what is a delusion? You thinking demons are a delusion. Don’t follow these cleverly devised tales." (56:54)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00-03:40 — C.S. Lewis, Lewis' warnings, anecdotal fallacy in spirituality
• 03:40-08:30 — Evil beyond self-interest, discussion from the book “Hollywood Heroes”
• 10:31-12:44 — Pastor Josh Howerton detailing signs of demonic involvement in the Minneapolis shooting
• 12:44-28:00 — Analysis of Satan and demons; biblical names, nature, and tactics
• 28:00-39:00 — Jesus’ teaching in John 8, true freedom, spiritual deception
• 39:00-50:00 — Arguments for God’s existence; objective morality and evil
• 50:00-53:00 — “Armor of God”; practical advice for Christians facing spiritual warfare
• 53:00-End — Final reflections, call to truth, exhortation to prayer and action

Summary Table: Responding to Spiritual Evil

| Biblical Command | Practical Application | Scripture Reference | |---------------------------------|------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------------| | Belt of truth | Know, cherish, and speak the truth | Ephesians 6:14 | | Breastplate of righteousness | Practice godliness, integrity | Ephesians 6:14 | | Shield of faith | Stand firm against doubts and falsehoods | Ephesians 6:16 | | Helmet of salvation | Rest in the assurance of Christ’s saving work | Ephesians 6:17 | | Sword of the Spirit (God’s Word)| Counter lies with biblical truth | Ephesians 6:17, Matthew 4 | | Test the spirits | Evaluate messages/ideologies biblically | 1 John 4:1 |

Conclusion

Dr. Frank Turek’s episode argues that demonic activity is a present and dangerous spiritual reality, manifesting in both personal deception and overtly evil acts like the recent school shooting. He cautions against both denial and obsession regarding demons and emphasizes the necessity of truth, spiritual vigilance, and reliance on Christ. The existence of profound evil, he contends, is itself evidence of spiritual warfare, and Christians are called to resist deception through scriptural truth, prayer, and practical faithfulness.