Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: I Don’t Have Enough FAITH to Be an ATHEIST
Host: Dr. Frank Turek
Episode: Top 10 Reasons Why Borders Are Biblical
Date: December 26, 2025

Main Theme:
Dr. Frank Turek explores the controversial topic of borders, immigration, and deportation from a biblical perspective. He addresses prevalent claims about Jesus and immigration, distinguishes between individual and governmental biblical commands, and sets out ten key points (covered up to point five in this episode) that argue for the legitimacy and necessity of borders based on scripture and common sense.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Interpreting the Bible: Distinguishing Commands

• Not Every Biblical Command Applies Universally:
  Turek opens by emphasizing the importance of context when interpreting biblical passages:

  "The Bible was not written to you. It was written for you." ([00:57])
  He draws an analogy of texts/messages meant for specific recipients, cautioning that not every command in the Bible is for every person or institution at every time.

• STOP Acronym for Interpretation:
  Turek introduces the "STOP" acronym for Bible study:

  • S – Situation (context)
  • T – Type of literature (law, poetry, prophecy, etc.)
  • O – Object of the passage (who is being addressed)
  • P – Prescriptive or Descriptive (is this a command or simply a record of what happened?)

  “You’ve got to figure out who the object of the passage is.” ([08:16])

The Jesus as Immigrant Claim

• Turek challenges the common statement that "Jesus was an immigrant":

  “Actually, the answer is no. Jesus and his parents never left the Roman Empire... Even if they had crossed borders, does that mean a government should not have borders?” ([05:51])

• Draws a distinction between Jesus’ life and modern national boundaries, arguing that even if Jesus had moved across borders, this would not negate the Bible’s affirmation of borders and nations.

Toxic Empathy and Biblical Love

• Turek references Ali Beth Stuckey’s concept of “toxic empathy,” the idea that feelings and compassion can be manipulated to override truth and godly commands:

  “People will play on your feelings and your compassion to get you to abandon truth and God’s commands... love means approval. And we’ve pointed out in this program many times, love does not mean approval.” ([13:06])

• He quotes 1 Corinthians 13, emphasizing that biblical love “always protects” and “rejoices in the truth.”

The Top 10 Reasons Why Borders Are Biblical

1. Everyone Believes in Borders ([16:25])

• Everyday Borders:
  We set passwords, have locks, private property—all “borders” to protect and care for what’s inside.
• Biblical Support:
  The Ten Commandments (e.g., “Thou shall not steal” and “Thou shall not covet”) only make sense if private property—and thus, boundaries—are legitimate.
• Key Quote:

  “When you have a border or a lock on your door, it’s not because you hate people outside. It’s because you love people inside.” ([17:13])

2. God Established National Borders ([18:23])

• Biblical Examples:
  • God scattered people at Babel (Genesis 11)
  • Marked out lands for nations and Israel (Deuteronomy 32:8)
  • Paul affirms this in Acts 17:26
• Heiser Reference:
  Michael Heiser’s work on divine boundaries.
• Key Quote:

  “Borders are something that God establishes... He also said that walls are necessary to protect innocent people from evil.” ([20:15])

3. God Established Government and Assigned Punishment of Wrongdoers as Primary Responsibility ([20:44])

• Romans 13:
  Government is God’s servant to do justice—protect innocents, punish evil.

  “Without a good government punishing wrongdoers... we would have anarchy.” ([22:11])

• Not Every Command Applies to All:
  Some biblical commands are for governments, others for individuals—don’t confuse them.

4. Governments Have Different Responsibilities than Individuals ([34:40])

• “Turn the other cheek” is for individuals, not governments:
  • Individuals can choose mercy in personal interactions.
  • Governments must uphold justice for the collective.
• Jesus’ Example:
  Jesus confronted evil and injustice, especially from governing authorities of his day—he was not always “nice,” particularly when lives or justice were at stake.
• Key Quote:

  “If you fail to punish wrongdoers, you’re actually punishing the innocent. And God says that’s an abomination.” ([32:52])

5. Governments Have a Responsibility to Their Own People First ([40:37])

• Borders as Boundary Lines of Responsibility:
  Just as families must care for their own before helping others, governments must prioritize citizens.
• Vance & Augustine’s Order of Loves:
  • Love your family, then neighbor, community, country, and then the rest of the world.
  • Cited in 1 Timothy 5:8, failing to provide for family is to be “worse than an unbeliever.”
• Key Quote:

  “If you’re trying to take care of the entire world before your own, you’re neglecting what God has told you to do.” ([45:40])

  • “Why are there no caravans going from the United States to Venezuela?” ([44:39])
    Used to illustrate why national prosperity and government responsibility matter.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On interpretation:

  “Not every passage is a command to you. Some are, some aren’t.” – Frank Turek ([00:57])

• On the universality of borders:

  “Border and passwords and locks on our doors are not created because we hate people on the outside. They’re created because we love people on the inside…” ([17:14])

• On toxic empathy:

  “True love, as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 13… love always protects… love does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but… rejoices in the truth.” ([13:58])

• On the role of government:

  “It’s not good to be partial to the wicked and so deprive the innocent of justice. In other words, he who spares the wolves sacrifices the sheep.” ([32:52])

• On national responsibility:

  “If you fail to do that, as Paul says, you’re worse than an unbeliever… If every family and government took care of their own, there would be far fewer problems.” ([45:40])

Important Timestamps

• 00:07 — Introduction of the topic: Biblical perspective on borders and immigration
• 04:00 — How to interpret commands and promises in the Bible
• 05:51 — Debunking "Jesus was an immigrant"
• 08:16 — Applying STOP acronym to biblical passages
• 13:06 — Discussion of toxic empathy
• 16:25 — Everyone believes in borders; biblical basis for private property
• 18:23 — God established national borders; scriptural evidence
• 20:44 — Government's role: establish justice, punish wrongdoers
• 29:34 — Addressing objection: Does "turn the other cheek" contradict border enforcement?
• 34:40 — Distinction between government and individual responsibilities
• 40:37 — Governmental responsibility to citizens first
• 44:39 — Illustration of American government vs. others (Venezuela example)
• 46:08 — Preview: next five points to be covered in next episode

Episode Flow & Tone

The tone is direct, didactic, and unapologetically opinionated but laced with anecdotal humor and practical analogies.
Frank addresses anticipated objections, such as misplaced compassion, misunderstandings of Jesus’ teachings, and the mix-up between commands to governments and individuals. He supports arguments with scripture, scholarship, and references to contemporary thought leaders.

Conclusion

Episode Takeaways:

• Borders are biblically justified and necessary for justice, safety, and responsible governance.
• Compassion and love as defined biblically do not negate the moral imperative or governmental responsibility to maintain borders and prioritize citizens.
• Confusing individual commands of mercy with governmental obligations of justice leads to destructive policies (toxic empathy).
• The subject is continued; next five points ("Top 10") to be addressed in the forthcoming episode.

Final Memorable Moment:
A child’s donation letter is read aloud as a touching example of support for the podcast’s ministry, underscoring themes of generosity, shared values, and the importance of supporting just causes—even from the youngest listeners. ([46:10])

[To hear the completion of the "Top 10 Reasons," listeners are directed to the next midweek podcast episode.]