Podcast Summary: "Top 10 Reasons Why Borders are Biblical – Part 2"

I Don’t Have Enough FAITH to Be an ATHEIST with Dr. Frank Turek
Date: December 30, 2025

Overview

This episode concludes Dr. Frank Turek’s two-part series exploring what the Bible says about borders, immigration, and deportation. Dr. Turek continues his argument that secure national borders are biblically sanctioned, examining ten points to support his position. He also addresses common objections, misinterpretations of scripture, and makes a case for just and ordered immigration based on biblical principles.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Part 1 Recap – First 5 Reasons (00:03–08:08)

• Everyone Believes in Borders:
  Even proponents of open borders lock their doors, not out of hatred but out of necessity in a fallen world.
  • "Even people who say that we ought to have open borders have a lock on their door." (00:15)
• God Established National Borders:
  Scriptural grounding (Deuteronomy 32, Acts 17) affirms that nations and borders are ordained by God.
• Government’s Role:
  The primary role of government is justice and punishing wrongdoers, not leniency.
• Distinction in Biblical Commands:
  Different directives exist for individuals and governments; “turn the other cheek” is for individuals, not the state.
• Order of Loves:
  Drawing on Augustine and Paul (1 Timothy 5), governments, like individuals, must prioritize caring for their own first before extending outward.

Main Arguments (Reasons 6–10)

6. The Bible Distinguishes Between Legal and Illegal Immigrants (08:09–17:50)

• Sojourner vs. Foreigner:
  The Old Testament word "ger" refers to those who entered Israel legally and gained recognized standing, not undocumented entrants.
  • "Nowhere does the Bible say that the illegal immigrant has a right to stay in a nation not their own." (10:56)
• Application to Modern Law:
  Every nation holds the biblical right to control immigration for the benefit of its citizens.
  • Reference to Professor James Hoffmeier’s scholarship.
• Assimilation:
  Immigration should include assimilation to national values; otherwise, it becomes an “invasion.”
  • "Immigration without assimilation is an invasion." (14:06)
• Distinction Between Old and New Testament Law:
  Not all Old Testament laws apply today—only those repeated in the New Testament are binding.

7. Stopping Illegal Immigration Protects Innocent People from Evil (17:51–25:35)

• Romans 13 and Respect for Law:
  Respect for governing laws is biblically endorsed.
• Consequences of Open Borders:
  • Drug trafficking, child sex trafficking, and infiltration by terrorists and gang members increase.
  • Economic impact: Increased taxpayer cost, lost jobs for citizens, infrastructure strain.
  • "Over a hundred thousand Americans every year die from fentanyl overdoses that are coming in… these drugs are coming in across open borders." (21:43)
• Compassion vs. Justice:
  Compassion, while important, is not the government’s primary function—justice must come first.
  • "The main role of a government is not compassion. The main role of a government is justice." (22:49)
• Proverbs 17:15 & 18:5:
  Enabling or justifying lawbreaking is to harm the innocent and is condemned in scripture.

8. Unrestrained Immigration Would Destroy Any Country (25:36–32:48)

• Population Impact:
  Citing Wayne Grudem, permitting only 10% of the world's population would more than triple the U.S. population overnight, destabilizing the country.
  • "If we opened our borders and say just 10% of the world decided to come to the United States, our population would more than triple overnight." (26:22)
• Compatibility of Values:
  Mass immigration without assimilation allows incompatible values—such as those found in Sharia law—to erode democratic freedoms.
• European Example:
  Western Europe’s challenges with unassimilated immigrant populations are used as cautionary tales.
• Preservation of Freedom:
  "The First Amendment is not a self-defeating amendment. It doesn't give one religion the freedom... to eradicate the freedom of religion for everybody else." (30:44)
• Historical Warnings:
  Quotes attributed to Ben Franklin (“A republic, if you can keep it”) and Edmund Burke (“All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing”).

9. Deportations Resurrect Respect for the Law (32:49–39:32)

• Biblical Mandate for Law Enforcement:
  While not specifying deportations, the Bible demands governments punish wrongdoers.
• Justice Over Compassion:
  The consistent theme: Government’s job is justice, not primarily compassion.
• Inequality in Law Enforcement:
  Critique of political double standards regarding prosecuting citizens versus illegal immigrants.
  • "If a white guy or an average American committed a crime… but if it's an illegal immigrant, somehow they want to let that guy go free. Why is that?" (35:42)
• Rule of Law:
  Failing to enforce deportations invites further illegal immigration and undermines respect for law.
• Jesus and Justice:
  Matthew 23:23—Jesus rebukes rulers for neglecting justice, emphasizing justice as government's #1 duty.
• “It’s mean not to punish wrongdoing.” (38:35)

10. America Can Help More People by Maintaining Laws and Freedoms (39:33–46:55)

• Blessed by Order and Freedom:
  America’s relative prosperity and freedom is a result of laws and secure borders.
• Contrast with Other Nations:
  Personal anecdotes about travels to Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and others to show lack of freedom and poverty abroad.
  • "The average worker [in Egypt] makes $303 per month... most Americans make that in a day." (41:03)
• Nation’s Example Over Mass Immigration:
  America cannot accept unlimited numbers but can export its foundational ideas to improve other nations.
  • "The best way to protect America and help people outside our country is to regulate immigration at a sustainable level while exporting our ideas..." (43:37)
• Rule of Law as the “Golden Goose”:
  Open borders threaten the very prosperity immigrants seek.
• Summary Statement:
  "Open borders would destroy the very reasons people want to come here in the first place." (44:36)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• "Borders are necessary in a fallen world." (22:18)
• "Legislating morality is different than legislating religion... [telling people] you ought not murder someone is legislating morality." (13:40)
• "Justice is the first, because without justice you got nothing else." — Citing Matthew 23:23 (38:58)
• "If you don't have a rule of law, you're not going to be able to maintain the prosperity and freedom that we have here." (44:10)
• "Open borders would destroy the very reasons people want to come here in the first place." (44:36)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:03–08:08: Recap of first five points from Part 1
• 08:09–17:50: Difference between legal and illegal immigrants biblically
• 17:51–25:35: Consequences of ignoring border laws; harm to innocent people
• 25:36–32:48: Destructive potential of mass, unrestrained immigration
• 32:49–39:32: The role of deportations in restoring legal order
• 39:33–46:55: How secure borders enable America to help more people overall
• 46:56–End: Recap of all 10 points and conclusion

Tone & Style

• Direct, didactic, and unapologetic. Dr. Turek grounds his arguments in scripture, rigorous distinctions, and occasional humor. He often uses rhetorical questions to engage listeners and makes use of historical and personal anecdotes to underscore his points.

Final Review: The Ten Points

(45:33)

1. Everyone believes in borders
2. God established national borders
3. God established government and its justice role
4. Governments and individuals have distinct responsibilities
5. Governments must prioritize their own people
6. The Bible distinguishes between legal and illegal immigrants
7. Stopping illegal immigration protects the innocent
8. Unrestrained immigration destroys countries
9. Deportations restore respect for law
10. America best helps others by maintaining her laws and freedoms

For listeners wanting to revisit biblical passages or delve deeper, Dr. Turek mentions supporting articles (Wayne Grudem’s, etc.) in the show notes. He strongly encourages thoughtful, contextual application of scripture and ongoing engagement with these controversial topics.