Podcast Summary: “UC Berkeley Update – Plus Q&A on Two Messiahs and More”

Podcast: I Don't Have Enough FAITH to Be an ATHEIST
Host: Dr. Frank Turek
Date: November 11, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Dr. Frank Turek gives an on-the-road update from a recent Turning Point USA (TPUSA) event at UC Berkeley, highlighting the challenges faced on college campuses around free speech and inclusion. The main segment is a listener Q&A, with a focus on Jewish-Christian dialogue, particularly the question of why Jesus is viewed as the Messiah given ongoing suffering and the concept of two Messiahs (or two comings). The episode closes with advice for Christian parents navigating interfaith relationships and reflects on the impact of significant events.

Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. UC Berkeley Event Recap and Free Speech Challenges (00:00–02:27)

• Challenges at the Event:

  • Half-filled venue despite high ticket demand due to protests and university restrictions.
  • Protesters using slurs, creating a hostile environment.
  • Allegations of online sabotage—countering inclusion by blocking real attendees.

• Guests:

  • Rob Schneider, actor, and Peter Boghossian, atheist philosopher.
  • Emphasized the irony: “The folks who say they're fighting for inclusion, tolerance and diversity did not want to include us.” (00:07, possibly Peter Boghossian)
  • Plans for ongoing TPUSA events at other universities.

2. Listener Mailbag: Q&A on Jesus as Messiah and Jewish Objections (02:38–36:05)

A. Introduction & Listener Question (03:32–04:28)

• From Myra:
  • “I'm a secular Jewish female... I've always been curious learning about different faiths. I'm confused about Christianity. If Jesus died for mankind’s sin and was considered a Messiah, doesn't that mean all the problems and suffering on earth would have ended with his death? Why is it Jesus must return again?” (03:32–04:00)
  • Additional questions: Why didn't Jesus write himself? How do we know his disciples didn't change his teachings? Why are there so many Bible versions?

B. Reliability of the Disciples and the New Testament (04:39–07:41)

• All New Testament authors were Jews.
• Significant quote:
  • “You don’t invent things that get you kicked out of your community and then beaten, tortured and killed.” (05:28, Frank Turek)
• Disciples taught things that were inconvenient for themselves, suggesting authenticity.
• Care was taken to distinguish their own words from Jesus’s teachings.

C. The ‘Two Messiahs’ in Jewish Thought (07:55–15:40)

• Evidence from Dead Sea Scrolls and pre-Christian Judaism: belief in both a suffering and a conquering Messiah.
• Zechariah, Micah, Daniel, and Isaiah illustrate both peaceful and kingly Messianic prophecies—sometimes interpreted as two Messiahs (“Ben Joseph,” the suffering servant; “Ben David,” the conquering king).
• Quote:
  • “Is Zechariah contradicting himself? This is a big puzzle for Jewish scholars as well.” (13:30, Frank Turek)

D. Jesus’s Fulfillment of Messianic Prophecy (15:45–23:01)

• Inauguration of ministry (Luke 4): Jesus reads from Isaiah 61, pointedly stops mid-verse:
  • “He stopped right there. That actually is mid-verse. Why? Because the next verse says, 'And the day of vengeance of our God.' That's his second coming. That's why he stopped right there.” (19:21–20:07, Frank Turek)
• Jesus’s authority over sin, nature, sickness, and death are presented as evidence of his Messiahship.
• First coming = atonement and spiritual peace; second coming = judgment and world peace.

E. Messiah’s Timing and Old Testament Prophecies (25:39–32:25)

• Messiah must be human (“seed of the woman,” Genesis 3:15), from David’s line, born in Bethlehem, both God and man (Isaiah 9:6).
• Malachi 3:1 predicts the Messiah would come to the temple (destroyed in AD 70), which places the Messiah’s coming before then.
• Daniel’s prophecies lead some to the year AD 33 for the expected death of Messiah.

F. Suffering Servant & The Missed Messiah (31:34–36:05)

• Isaiah 52:13–53:12 cited as describing the suffering servant who bears others' sins.
• Talmud hints at two Messiahs.
• Profound quote:
  • “There could be two Messiahs, either two separate Messiahs or one Messiah who comes twice…” (32:50–32:55, Frank Turek)
• Encouragement for Jewish listeners to explore messianic prophecies and the evidence for Jesus’s resurrection.

3. Impact Events & the Resurrection (36:05–43:41)

• Jesus as History’s Pivot:

  • “He’s the most influential person in history. How do you think this could have happened if he hadn’t risen from the dead?” (36:05–36:14, Frank Turek)

• ‘Impact Event’ Concept:

  • Life-changing moments (JFK assassination, 9/11, Charlie Kirk’s death) are remembered in vivid detail—so too with the resurrection.
  • “Do you think if Jesus really rose from the dead, that would have been an impact event? You think they would have forgotten it?” (39:23, Frank Turek)

• “One Solitary Life” Poem (41:26–42:36): Read aloud to underscore the uniqueness of Jesus and his outsized legacy.

4. Practical Q&A: Interfaith Marriage and Christian Science (43:41–52:31)

A. On Dating/Marrying Non-Christians (44:45–48:07)

• Biblical caution against “missionary dating” (dating with the intent to convert).
• “Fraternity will almost always overcome theology.” (46:59, Norman Geisler, cited by Frank)
• Main point: Do not let personal relationships supersede faith commitments.

B. Navigating Difference: Questions for the Doubting/Drifting (48:07–52:31)

• Ask direct questions: “If historic orthodox Christianity were true, would you become a Christian? … Would you follow God if He is truly God?” (48:05–48:30)

• Regarding Christian Science:

  • Watchman Fellowship recommended as a resource.
  • Emphasis on investigating what’s TRUE, not just what “works.”

5. Closing Insights: Faith, Evidence, and Worldview Choices (52:31–55:24)

• Religion as “insulin, not ice cream”:
  • “Either Christianity is true or it isn’t. It’s not a preference, it’s a statement of fact.” (53:02, Frank Turek)
• The problem of sin: only two options—pay for your own or accept Jesus’s sacrifice (54:01–54:30).

Memorable Quotes

• On institutional resistance at UC Berkeley:

  • “Tolerance and diversity did not want to include us… did not want to tolerate us for holding a diverse view.” (00:07–00:11, Peter Boghossian)

• On the credibility of the first disciples:

  • “You don’t invent things that get you kicked out of your community and… killed.” (05:28, Frank Turek)

• On the puzzle of two Messiahs:

  • “Is it possible that one individual might fit the bill of both pictures? Someone who would be both a king of peace and a king of power, a humble servant and a conqueror?” (15:04–15:19, Frank Turek quoting Garrett Smith)

• On Jesus’ two comings:

  • “He’s not claiming that he’s going to judge everybody right now. That’s…the second half of the last verse…because there’s a second coming.” (22:25–22:32, Frank Turek)

• On the nature of religious truth:

  • “Is religion like ice cream… or is it really like insulin, which means it’s what you need if you’re a diabetic?” (52:31–52:55, Frank Turek citing Greg Koukl)

Resource Links Shared

• RealMessiah.com: Resources for Jewish readers on Jesus as Messiah.
• Watchman Fellowship (watchman.org): Cults and new religious movements info.
• Debates: e.g., Dr. Michael Brown vs. Reform Rabbi.
• Previous podcast episodes on related topics (e.g., Jewish converts, conspiracy theories).

Episode Timeline

| Topic | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------|------------------| | UC Berkeley event recap | 00:00–02:27 | | Listener Q&A (Jewish perspective) | 02:38–36:05 | | Impact events & resurrection | 36:05–43:41 | | Interfaith relationships, Christian Science | 43:41–52:31 | | Truth and religion: ice cream vs. insulin | 52:31–55:24 | | Conclusion, upcoming events | 55:24–end |

Tone and Delivery

Frank Turek’s tone is urgent, passionate, and occasionally personal—especially regarding the loss of Charlie Kirk and the need for honest searching in matters of faith. He uses scriptural exegesis, historical arguments, and practical advice, punctuated with memorable anecdotes and direct questions for the audience. The episode balances rigorous apologetics with warmth and an encouragement to keep seeking truth, whether in the case of interfaith questions, skepticism about Jesus as Messiah, or discerning among various worldviews.

Useful For:
Those wrestling with Jewish-Christian questions, seeking historical evidence for Jesus’s Messiahship, or facing relational dilemmas involving differing faith backgrounds.
For More: See the resources and show notes linked in the episode for in-depth reading and debate references.