In this episode we talk about two dramatic portrayals of a seminal 2000 libel trial, the court case brought by Holocaust denier David Irving against American scholar Deborah Lipstadt: a contemporary UK television drama-documentary 'Holocaust on Trial' and the 2016 film Denial. We then consider the legacy of Irving, his reputation today, how fascists now see him, how they see the 2016 film, the planned republication of his work by Antelope Hill books, and how he is weirdly replicated in current 'rising star' internet Holocaust denier Darryl Cooper. We then consider our own coverage of Israel's genocide of the Palestinians in Gaza and the question of how to talk about genocide after the Nazi Holocaust. Our discussion also touches upon another of the 'guests' brought on by Jubilee to debate Mehdi Hasan in the recent edition of 'Surrounded'.

We also briefly discuss the Sydney Sweeney jeans ad thing.

CONTENT WARNINGS

Episode Notes:

Mother Jones piece on Darryl Cooper: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2025/07/martyr-made-darryl-cooper-nazi-jews-juggernaut-nihilism-tucker-carlson-joe-rogan-substack/

Mari Cohen at the *Jewish Currents*, "Can Genocide Studies Survive a Genocide in Gaza"

https://jewishcurrents.org/can-genocide-studies-survive-a-genocide-in-gaza

"Little changed even after Amnesty International published a landmark report accusing Israel of genocide in December 2024. For Nimer Sultany, a scholar of international law at SOAS University of London, this silence pointed to a glaring double standard, in which many scholars could rush to imply that the Palestinians had committed acts reminiscent of genocide, but be “unable to or unwilling to make the same charge against Israel, when Israel has committed much worse atrocities against the Palestinians since then.” “This shows that the early use of genocide was propagandistic and political in nature. It shows that they don’t care in the same way about Palestinian civilians or Palestinian victims,” he said."

Polite Conversations, with the same title: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5mpxDnGm1c8isJlDGgidqc?si=igr81Hv4SvOMw_rdFA6V9Q

Doomernaut Substack: https://substack.com/@thatonewhitepopulist , "Number 1 alogger of the kosher right ""

Antelope Hill Publishing, *Nuremberg, The Last Battle* by David Irving https://antelopehillpublishing.com/product/nuremberg-the-last-battle-by-david-irving/

Holocaust on Trial (2000) – NOT on the pro-Irving channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCe3G9gODU4&t=1s

Show Notes:

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134: Denial, Genocide, and the Shadow of David Irving