297 Parenting with ADHD? Here's the #1 Mindset Shift You Need!

Summary

Episode Summary: I Have ADHD Podcast

Episode 297: Parenting with ADHD? Here’s the #1 Mindset Shift You Need!
Host: Kristen Carder
Guest: Dr. Jessica McCarthy, Licensed Clinical Psychologist & Neuropsychologist
Release Date: January 7, 2025

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Overview

This lively and candid episode dives into the unique (and often overwhelming) challenges of parenting with ADHD. Host Kristen Carder welcomes back Dr. Jessica McCarthy to discuss the nuanced experiences of parents with ADHD—whether partnered, solo, or single—sharing personal stories, practical strategies, and the essential mindset shift to embrace as an ADHD parent. The conversation tackles emotional regulation, flexible frameworks, and the line between control and connection, all while remaining refreshingly real about the messiness (and humor) of parenting.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Realities of Parenting with ADHD (00:40–06:57)

• The Extra Layer of Complexity:
  • Parenting with ADHD means you’re responsible for someone else’s “frontal lobe” while your own is “dangling for dear life” ([02:00], McCarthy).
  • Dr. McCarthy shares her experience as a divorced, single parent, highlighting the immense challenge of continually adapting to custody schedules and the ever-evolving logistics of kids' activities.
• Schedule Paralysis:
  • The unpredictability and changeability of parenting schedules can be crushing for ADHDers, whose executive function struggles make transitions and planning especially difficult.
  • “You can get really bogged down into the moment-to-moment minutiae of how to do this, to the point where the paralysis of where to start and how to problem-solve [is overwhelming].” ([05:12], McCarthy)
• Self-forgiveness and Grace:
  • Both host and guest emphasize letting go of guilt and practicing self-compassion as critical to surviving and thriving as an ADHD parent.

Moving Beyond ‘Being the Frontal Lobe’ – Teaching, Not Just Doing (08:02–14:08)

• Teaching Metacognition:
  • Dr. McCarthy questions the “it’s our job to be their frontal lobe” narrative, suggesting it’s more valuable to teach kids to think about what needs to be done, rather than just doing things for them.
  • She implements chore charts and prompts, encouraging her children to reflect: “What needs to be done in this room to consider it complete?” ([12:23], McCarthy)
• Modeling Imperfection:
  • By sharing her own struggles and being transparent (“My bed’s not made yet, Mom.” “You’re absolutely right.”), McCarthy fosters accountability and buy-in from her children ([13:00], McCarthy).

Emotional Regulation for Parents and Kids (16:11–24:44)

• Laying the Foundation:
  • Emotional regulation starts with basic self-care: sleep, nutrition, hydration, movement, and self-kindness.
  • “How am I eating, sleeping, hydrating, moving my body, and how am I treating myself? Because I’ve been through a lot of shit too, right in this moment.” ([16:30], McCarthy)
• Real-Time Coping and Repair:
  • McCarthy openly admits to yelling, cursing, and then apologizing, modeling for her kids that adults also make mistakes and can repair relationships.
  • She underscores not overburdening children with adult emotional needs: “You are the child, I am the adult. It is not your place to take care of me.” ([18:48], McCarthy)
• Adaptable Expectations:
  • Considers developmental norms when setting expectations for her kids' behavior and self-regulation.

The Mindset Shift: Flexible Frameworks vs. Perfection (24:45–26:24)

• Defining a Framework:
  • McCarthy describes her parenting framework as focusing on raising “kind people who don’t suck, are independent, content, and can launch successfully”—not on perfection, grades, or constant happiness.
  • “When I remind myself of that framework... I’m able to parent more flexibly and effectively.” ([23:18], McCarthy)
• Consistency, Not Perfection:
  • “It’s consistency, not perfection.” ([25:27], McCarthy)
  • Normalizes that happiness and perfection are unattainable, and that it’s okay for kids and parents to have bad days.

Control vs. Connection: The Guiding Question (26:32–27:46)

• Kristen’s Game-Changing Question:
  • “Do I want control or do I want connection?” ([26:41], Carder)
  • Dr. McCarthy agrees, noting that sometimes control is necessary (e.g., safety issues), but most of the time, fostering connection leads to better outcomes.
• Connecting in Difficult Moments:
  • When kids are dysregulated, sometimes the best step is to connect to the present, not immediately “solve” the problem (“How can we just be with that?”).

Ride or Die Parenting & Emotional Resilience (29:40–34:35)

• What it Means to Be a “Ride or Die” Parent:
  • Communicate unconditional support: “There’s nothing that you can’t tell me that’s going to get me to the point where you’re not my kid anymore... I am here.” ([30:40], McCarthy)
  • Say it explicitly and mean it; it builds trust and encourages openness.
  • Flexibility and accountability are vital—sometimes parents must acknowledge their own mistakes and repair, rather than just “dropping the hammer.”
  • Preparation for life’s unpredictability: “I’m always gonna be walking along with you... but you get to the point where you’re older, you launch, you do your own family... I’m still walking. I’m here with you through anything.” ([33:23], McCarthy)

The Repair Process in Parenting (34:28–37:14)

• Why Repair Is Essential:
  • Repair after rupture normalizes imperfection, maintains trust, and teaches kids how to navigate mistakes.
  • Timing matters; repair shouldn’t be attempted when emotions are still raw.
  • The process requires parents to avoid oversharing or making children responsible for parental emotions; accountability should be caring, clear, and developmentally appropriate.
  • “At some point, they will be adults and can make their own choices in life. But...they are living with the consequences of our actions. I acknowledge that in the repair process.” ([35:35], McCarthy)
• Memorable Example:
  • Dr. McCarthy humorously recounts throwing out her daughter’s Halloween candy after a conflict, owning up to both her emotional motivation and her relief to get rid of the candy—and telling her child, “Good, you little shitling.” Both she and her child came to understand each other afterward, highlighting the importance of repair over perfection ([36:04], McCarthy).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On parenting with ADHD:
  “It is so hard to be a human with ADHD, just in general...but then adding kids into the mix where you are responsible to be someone else’s frontal lobe...when yours is, like, hanging on by a neuron.”
  — Dr. Jessica McCarthy, [01:56]

• On guilt & self-forgiveness:
  “Sometimes I like to fuck around and find out, and sometimes I find out.”
  — Dr. Jessica McCarthy, [05:12]

• Defining the key mindset shift:
  “It’s not my job to be anything. It’s my job to teach you.”
  — Dr. Jessica McCarthy, [09:00]

• On transparency with your kids:
  “I have to model my struggles. I’m not doing this perfectly, and I’m learning along and also acknowledge that.”
  — Dr. Jessica McCarthy, [13:31]

• Kristen’s guiding question:
  “Do I want control or do I want connection?”
  — Kristen Carder, [26:41]

• On being a ride-or-die parent:
  “There’s nothing that you can’t tell me that’s going to get me to the point where...you’re not my kid anymore. I am here.”
  — Dr. Jessica McCarthy, [30:40]

• On the repair process:
  “Repair is incredibly important because kids need to know...just because you’re the adult and you’re older doesn’t mean you’re always right. What’s my accountability? And I’m sorry.”
  — Dr. Jessica McCarthy, [34:35]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:08 – Introduction to Dr. Jessica McCarthy and episode theme
• 02:10 – Jessica describes divorce, custody, and scheduling with ADHD
• 06:58 – Evolution as a parent; allowing for different versions of ourselves
• 08:02 – Teaching metacognitive skills, not just compliance
• 12:23 – The power of the reflective question: “What needs to be done here?”
• 16:11 – Emotional regulation for parents and kids
• 18:48 – Avoiding emotional parentification
• 23:18 – Defining a parenting framework: outcomes, not perfection
• 26:41 – Kristen’s “control vs. connection” question
• 29:40 – What it means to be a “ride or die” parent
• 34:35 – The repair process; why, when, and how
• 36:04 – The Halloween candy example: humor, exhaustion, and repair

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Takeaways for Parents with ADHD

• You do not need to be perfect—parenting is about consistency, repair, and modeling growth.
• Frameworks, rather than rigid rules or chasing perfection, empower you to parent with intention and self-compassion.
• Open communication and emotional flexibility build trust and connection, both in low and high moments.
• It’s okay to need support—therapy, coaching, and community can help you (and your kids) develop the skills needed to navigate ADHD and parenting alike.

This episode offers powerful reassurance, laughter, and practical wisdom for anyone facing the dual adventures of ADHD and parenting.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the I have ADHD podcast, where it's all about education, encouragement, and coaching for adults with adhd. I'm your host, Kristen Carter, and I have adhd. Let's chat about the frustrations, humor, and challenges of adulting, relationships, working and achieving with this neurodevelopmental disorder. I'll help you understand your unique brain, unlock your potential, and move from point A to point B.

[B]

Hey, what's up? This is Kristen Carter, and you are listening to the I have ADHD podcast. I am medicated, caffeinated. I'm not very regulated because I am just so happy and excited. And emotional regulation doesn't just apply to negative emotions. It also applies to the adrenaline and the joy and the excitement that we feel as well. And so I'm admitting that I am not well regulated, but I am ready to roll. And today I am talking with license, clinical psychologist and neuropsychologist, Dr. Jessica McCarthy.

[C]

She's back again. Back, baby. Oh. So get rid of it. Excited.

[B]

It's gonna be so good. We are gonna talk about parenting, the experience of parenting with adhd, whether that is two partners parenting together, solo parenting, single parenting, all of the things. So, Jessica, thank you so much for being here.

[C]

It's a pleasure. The pleasure is all mine. Thank you for having me back and to talk about something very, very near and dear to my heart and probably a lot of your listeners who have kids as well.

[B]

Yeah. It is so hard to be a human with adhd, just in general, just a human, like, taking care of yourself with adhd, but then adding kids into the mix where you are responsible to be someone else's frontal lobe, not just.

[C]

Your own, when yours is, like, hanging on by a neuron. Yes. Dangling for dear life.

[B]

It is so hard. What do you think? Or, like, what have been some of your challenges with being a parent who has adhd?

[C]

So, for me, it's. I. I've been divorced almost four years now, so I kind of don't remember life, some of the parenting stuff pre divorce, because it was. It was a different ballgame. And my kids were. They were babies. I was. They were three and five when I got divorced. And it was during COVID So, like, the world, everything was in shambles and, you know, Covid casualty. Yes. But obviously there were some issues leading up to that. Divorce doesn't occur in a vacuum, and it doesn't occur suddenly. So there's that. So It's February of 2021. My divorce is finalized. I had moved 45 minutes south of where my practice was where we were married and living to be closer to my family and a little bit more kind of centralized in New Jersey. What was the hardest part? A lot of it was, well, I think first of all, anyone that's gone through a substantial trauma, even though I initiated the divorce, I'm upfront about that. Just because you wanted something doesn't mean that it's not difficult. So that having to literally learn how to do life again while also trying to maintain a semblance of normalcy for these two children that admittedly did not have a choice in the process and are also trying to adapt, and they were young then, they didn't get it the way that they get it now. I had to learn a whole new communication around the custody schedule. And I have about 60% custody. So it's not just a very cookie cutter, because that would have been helpful from an ADHD standpoint, having it do the same thing every week. But I have, like I said, I have about 60%. So the schedule changes and having to learn the language, having to manage a schedule that literally when my children are with me, changes on a week to week basis. And the first thing that I had to program my brain was when I got divorced was, well, when do I have my children? Because that dictates what my answer is to something and what I'm doing. And by the way, like, this also applies to parents that have a significant other who travels a lot. Like, is my partner here this week or not? When are they back? How am I staffing up? What does this look like? I guess that I can speak more to the divorce part, but this goes to everyone that might be flying solo, whether it's permanently or temporarily, and trying to figure it out. Because managing the schedule and training your brain to add in this extra variable that literally dictates when everything else happens was the hardest part. And it still is the hardest part. Because every few months now that my kids are 9 and 7, the schedule changes, the sports change, my work schedule things, and the juggling is exhausting.

[B]

I feel that as a parent who has a partner, I have three boys, they're all in sports, they all have the things right? And they're playing, they're doing their things at various times of the year all year round.

[D]

And it just.

[B]

The schedule changes are so overwhelming. They're so hard to keep track of. I'm not great at managing a calendar to begin with.

[C]

Half the stuff that needs to be on my calendar right now is not like anything that's work related. Like I said, in the previous episode, my office manager, Jackie, I love her, but I keep boundaries there with her. Like it is not her job to manage my personal life. That's my, yeah. And I, I, I, I struggle because my working memory I like to think is really good. But then the ball gets dropped or I try to push the limits because sometimes I like to fuck around and find out and sometimes I find out like, you know, but it's, there's, I have to give myself and other parents in this position so much grace and, and space. Because to your point, this thing called parenting, there's no manual. I remember my daughter was born, she came out after 24 hours of labor. She's on my chest and I'm like, well, shit, I'm on the clock now. That is such a surreal process. And then when something like divorce or a job change and someone's traveling a lot, how literally the moment, you can get really bogged down into the moment to moment minutiae of how to do this to the point where the paralysis of where to start and how to problem solve and how to decision make and what is the executive function skill that I need to do this? Where are my strengths in that area? Where are my weaknesses? I think I said this the last episode. Transitions are difficult. Task initiation is difficult for me. And then the paralysis that comes from shit. I actually, how the hell do I solve this problem? And then the guilt of like, well, you know, good. You know, this is what you get for like, you know, being in a marriage that didn't work out. Like, you chose this life and you chose this divorce and like you chose all of this stuff. So, like, you don't really get a fucking chance to like feel bad about it. You just have to solve the problem. Well, no, I'm human too.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

And my evolution as a parent, as a lot of your listeners, or even just as a human looks very different at, you know, my, you know, 42 than it did in my 20s and 30s. And we can allow for that long answer. Again, blame it on the adhd. I'm right there with you being disregarded. It's so good.

[B]

It'S wild, the experience of parenting. And I saw a TikTok the other day yesterday. Actually, every day that's not today is the other day for something with a geishi. Yesterday I was scrolling and I saw a TikTok that said a parent's job is to be their child's frontal lobe. I sent it immediately to my sister because I was like, well, crap, because I can barely Function as my own frontal lobe. And then I'm also having the responsibility to try to help my kids develop their own and, like, be that support system for them. It is so hard to be a parent with adhd.

[E]

Yes, yes.

[C]

And especially when. And this is to no fault to parents like our generation. Parents, like, not mine, anyone else's. We didn't understand ADHD back then. Like I said on the last episode, like, it's. I'm not. I wasn't the behavioral kid. Like, we're not, you know, so. So the understanding that, like, we need to do it differently as opposed to, like, Jessica, like, why is your room a mess? Just, like, just get up and do it. Like, I'm not Nike. I'm not gonna just do shit if I actually can't do it. And I don't have the skills. Like, trust me, there's nobody more than me on this planet that wishes I could do some of the shit that even my older daughter can do, like, so readily. Like, she comes home and she just sits down and does her home. She transitions so well. I'm like, how do you. Eleanor, my sweet child, how do you do that? Can you teach me how to do that? Whereas my younger one, Claudia, needs a little bit more assistance in that area. I think the other thing, too, I actually have a little bit of an issue. Like, it's our job to be their funnel lobes. And maybe this is the swinging of the pendul, the other direction. And this is also what I tell my clients. It's not my job to be anything. It's my job to teach you. Just like I take with my patient. I'm going to teach you how to problem solve. So here's. We're working on a chore chart. My kids now, they're understanding, like, the value of money.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, mom, like, we want to go shopping. We want to go get some. Get the fuck out of here. Like, what job do you have, first of all. But. Okay, let's talk. Let's talk chores.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

There's certain things that you are expected to do as a functioning and participating member of this household and are developmentally appropriate.

[E]

Totally.

[C]

But here's also what I'm teaching. I'm teaching insight and awareness, like, these metacognitive skills that we talk about with adhd. Because I don't want you to just be a doer. Here's the list. And execute. I want to teach you how to think about things. So part of how they earn money. It's not just. And we're still finalizing this. This just came about, like, last week. Love is not just the tasks, but if I have to remind you more than once, the maximum. And again, this is all behaviorism. It's positive reinforcement as opposed to punishment. So let's say out of a day, you have the opportunity to earn a maximum of $2. What you earn is not just predicated on stuff getting done. It's, did you do it without me having to? Like, were you able to walk into the room and realize, ooh, I need to turn the light off before I leave? I need to clean up the breakfast table? I'm not interested in you being, like, just. Just a yes man. I'm interested in you learning the skill of, okay, before I transition, can I look around me and see what has to be done before I leave the room? That's built into. Because I wasn't necessarily taught that. I was taught. And again, a lot of people, our agents. Do you do as you're told?

[E]

Yep. Yeah.

[C]

I was a taskmaster. I'm really good at doing what I'm told. I am less, actually. I'm not going to be hard on myself. It is an emerging skill of the dean of your voice. Emerging skill therapisty. It is an emerging skill of me being able to. Okay, pause. What do I need? What can I say yes to? And what do I say no to? As opposed to just being like, I'm going to do it all or I can't do shit. The all or nothing thing.

[E]

Yep, yep, yep.

[B]

So tell me how you teach your kids to. To think through or to remember the tasks, because that's very interesting.

[C]

So part of it is, like, the tasks themselves are written out, but if I know, like, this is. I need to move the mic so I can start pounding the table for me. Because it happens all the time.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

The breakfast table. Just when you have your breakfast, just fucking throw it out.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

Put the dishes in the sink. Like, I'm still teaching that. Like, pay attention to the dishwasher. If that's empty, then you can load it. But I'll be happy if you just throw out what needs to be and scrape your plate and put it in the sink. So they have their list. But what I'll say to them, and I will give them again, I will tell them a half hour, 25 minutes. I do help manage the time because they are learning again. Frontal lobes are not developed. I do have to help with that. I'm not a masochist. I help them manage the time and think about that. But I will say to Them what needs to be done in this room to consider it complete. Oh, I love what needs to be done before we leave for school.

[E]

Yep.

[C]

What. What needs to be done that we can check this. You can check this off. And whether they just remember it spontaneously or they. And they should have. How many times I've said it over the years.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Or they remember to go back to their list. I want to teach. I can teach them what needs to be done. And ultimately, I will phase that out over time. But, like, they're nine and seven and, like, honestly, they can complain about this.

[B]

To their therapist when we'll pay for their therapy bills.

[C]

That's why mama's hustling. But I'm trying. I just give them that prompt. What else needs to be done?

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, that's so good. That's a great question for an adult to ask themselves.

[C]

Yeah, me too. It's wild, right? Except sometimes, again, being a single parent, there's no other adult in the house. I might ask myself that and be like, the laundry needs to get put away on that chair of yours, Jessica, that clean laundry. And I'll just be like, like. And I'll ignore it. But then my older one especially will call me out. She'll be like, well, your bed's not made yet, Mom. And I'm like, you know what? You're absolutely right. You know, back in the day, it was like, you know, don't worry about me. Like, just do as you're told. But there's a lot of accountability in that because I want them to buy in.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

So I have to do two things. I have to model my struggles. I'm not doing this perfectly, and I'm learning along and also acknowledge that. Okay, I can do it too. You know, we all need to do this. What do I need to do? Because I love having my bed made. What do I need to do for me to consider this a wrap before we go to school? Because then, guess what? It's gonna make my life that much easier when I get home at 5, 6 o' clock, and they have to maybe have to finish homework or whatever that I do my part as well.

[E]

I love that.

[C]

I wish someone was paying me to do chores. But, like, you know, sorry, that's adulthood. Like, there's no sorry. Isn't that the truth?

[D]

I'm on a health kick right now, and my kids are so annoyed at me. I've changed the type of rice and pasta and bread that we eat at home. I've even eliminated all breakfast cereals from the house. No more Captain Crunch or Cinnamon Toast Crunch to be found in the Carter home. It's a true ADHD hyper focus for me right now. But one thing that I've stuck with and I don't think I'll ever stop taking is AG1. I, Kristen Carter, an adult with ADHD, have been able to be consistent with taking AG1 every single day for a long time. It's the first thing I do when I wake up in the morning, before coffee, before anything. It literally takes me about 60 to 90 seconds to just scoop it into some cold water, shake it up and drink it.

[B]

It really is so easy.

[D]

And I'm traveling with my family to Indiana for the holidays. We'll be staying in a hotel, eating out for a lot of our meals, and generally partaking in lots of non healthy activities, which is fine because balance.

[C]

You know what I'm saying?

[D]

And I know that I can stay consistent with AG1 thanks to their travel packs. I'm just going to pop six travel packs into my shaker, slip that baby into my travel bag and done. It's so simple I don't even have to think about it. So I encourage you this new year, if you want to do one thing to improve your health as an adult with ADHD, try AG1 for yourself. It's the perfect time to start a new healthy habit. And that's why I've been partnering with AG1 for so long. And listen to this. AG1 is offering new subscribers a free $76 gift. When you sign up, you'll get a welcome kit, a bottle of D3K2, and five free travel packs, just like I'm going to be using over the holidays. You'll get all of that in your first box, so make sure to check out drinkag1.com Ihaveadhd to get this offer. That's drinkag1.com IhaveadHD to start your new year on a healthier note.

[B]

Emotional regulation is just like one of the biggest pieces of humaning, humaning with adhd. What are your thoughts on being a parent with ADHD who's working on her own emotional regulation and then like also helping your kids learn how to regulate themselves.

[C]

So when I work with patients and even myself, it's like, what's your framework? What's your foundation? For me, it's also the systems check that I work with my patients for. Me too. How am I eating? Am I sleeping? I wasn't sleeping much when I first got divorced because of the stress of all that three or Four hours a night did not cut it. How am I moving my body? I work out with a trainer three or four times a week. Is it expensive? Yes. Is it a priority? Fuck yeah. Because I'm not a good human being. How am I eating, sleeping, hydrating? Like, did you drink water or are you just surviving on caffeine? Jessica, like, get the hell out of here. How am I moving, eating, sleeping, hydrating, moving my body. And how am I treating myself? Because I've been through a lot of shit too, right in this moment. So for me, that's my foundation as far as how I'm teaching, managing my own emotion regulation, but also modeling that to my kids. Because if they're dysregulated, that's what I asked them. Hey guys, when was the last time you ate? Did you have a snack? Cause my kids are in aftercare, they have snacks. So it's doing that for me. So that can help strengthen my foundation and model that for them. But in moments when I am dysregulated, I yell, I curse and I apologize. And that's not so. First of all, my kids know that if I'm getting to a level 10, it's because I've repeated myself one too many times. And I try to have a lot of structure in place for my children and put a lot of mindfulness and breathing and a lot of therapy into me not going to a level 10 because I also have anger issues. Like I was a kid when I was so dysregulated because of inefficiencies and how I was moving through my day and difficulties with transitions and the anxiety on top of that. Like I liked to throw things when I was younger. I threw remote controls through walls at my parents home. Like that's a very little known, not so much of a secret now. So in those moments where my darling angels just send me to the goddamn moon on the fastest rocket possible, I have to use my skills I learned in therapy to breathe and settle down. Because pouring gasoline on a fire is not going to work. If I need to give them space, I give it to them. We have things in place, like their own little safe little cozy corner. I come in and out, I check on them, I help them self regulate hugs, some sensory input, whatnot, but if it gets heated, I apologize. And I'm like, guys, this was my responsibility in this and our parents didn't do that. And again, I'm not blaming the older generations. It just wasn't part of the parenting picture. And it's not. I'm not in the part of, like, where it's the gentle parenting piece where it's like everything, hardcore gentle parenting, where sometimes I think there's a little bit too many rainbows and butterflies and no disrespect to that, but there has to be a middle ground of here are what consequences look like. But if I took it too far, I'm going to be accountable for that and apologize and repair and yet not burden the children. I don't need to tell you why. I don't need to tell you about all the deep, dark things that maybe had me coming home at a level 10. Right. That's not your. And that's. It is my job as a parent to keep them as kids, to not, you know, parentify, to not make it their problem. I tell my older one especially, you are the child, I am the adult. It is not your place to take care of me. Like, we are a team and we work together. But little ones, stay in your lane. Like I said in the last podcast, you gotta stay in your lane. You are a 9 year old. You are not a 42 year old adult.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

So it's a lot of that I can say, you know what? Mommy's having a. Mommy had a busy day. Like, I'm stressed. Mommy didn't eat.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, like, mommy didn't drink enough water today. Mommy's had a lot of stuff going on. Or like, you know, guys, I'm just having a day.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

And I can cry too. And I can.

[B]

Yeah. And that's modeling transparency. That's modeling that adults don't have it all together. That's modeling that. Like, I didn't eat. You know, A plus B equals C. Like, I didn't eat, I didn't drink. So that consequences resulted.

[E]

It's.

[C]

It's what happens.

[B]

Exactly. But I love the part that you said it's not their job to take care of you. And I think that's a big shift culturally in our parenting model where.

[C]

When.

[B]

We were kids, that wasn't necessarily the thought process. You know, kids were more seen to serve their parents. And so what are some ways that parents listening who are like, whoa, wait a second, what are some ways that they can make sure that they are not kind of burdening their kids with the responsibility to take care of them?

[C]

That's a good question. I think a couple of things. Number one, it comes back to like your framework of parenting. Like when you have a framework and an idea of how you want this thing called parenting to go and what you think are reasonable expectations and developmentally appropriate expectations. So yes, I don't need my children taking care of me and I don't need my older one functioning as a second adult. But it is developmentally appropriate for a nine year old and a seven year old to do certain things. So I think that's where I make it a point to even I tell parents, parents, go work with a child psychologist, Talk to your pediatrician about what is developmentally appropriate for kids to do when you can reference the research. And again, I think the Internet can be a great place for that. Sometimes it gets a little murky, but call a pediatrician, touch base, do one or two sessions with a psychologist to get an understanding of what is developmentally appropriate. I think that framework can then dictate what is reasonable to expect from a child both in terms of tasks they might do and also emotion regulation. Right. Like a 3 and 4 year old and even maybe a 5 year old still might have more explosive outbursts and temper tantrums than a seven, eight, nine year old.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

And that's normal. Again, it's all a range. It's normal. I also, as a way to kind of, I try to get ahead of problems before they come up. So I talk to my kids. Like I do a check in when I pick them up. What was the best part of your day? What was the worst part of your day? Do you need anything? For me? I don't. Not that I don't care what they did, but like they don't remember what they did. Like, how was your day at school? Like, if there's a problem, I'm gonna find out about it. Exactly. But not by asking that. I make it a point to talk to them. Right. At bedtime. That's when they're tired and like a little bit more vulnerable and willing to share. And that's also where sometimes repair work can happen. And I'm also okay with like everyone taking a timeout. Not like a punishment timeout, but like a. You know what, guys, let's just, we all need some space. And I'm willing to be flexible. So sometimes I don't get home from work until like six o'.

[E]

Clock. Yeah.

[C]

Even if the snacks at aftercare, like my kids are hungry.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

Sometimes I'm on top of planning dinner. Most of the time I'm not. But I, I like this week I'm on point. Like we're eating well, this nice. Excellent. But if they're about to break down or they're having a hard time finishing something because they're fucking hungry. Grab a snack, dude. Go grab a snack.

[B]

Yep, go grab a snack.

[C]

So, like, that's emotion regulation right there. And it's my job as a parent to be flexible. Like, you're gonna spoil your dinner. Okay, you know what? Like, they're not allowed to have cookies when they get home as a snack. Have fruit, have yogurt, have something that, you know what? Guess what? That counts as dinner. Now that's wonderful. I have to be flexible as a parent from an emotion regulation standpoint and let go of how it was done for me and how I thought and what society may think about me as. Am I a good parent? Am I a bad parent? And I hear that a lot in my head. Like, oh, she's by herself. Like, these kids are like, doing this or doing that. Like, yes, I'm by myself and my kids are on point and they're awesome and I get great feedback. So letting go of what people say or what you think think they're saying can also help a lot with the emotion regulation piece. And when you can have a framework of, I just want my kids to be healthy, they're not gonna be happy all the time, but, like, have contentment and not be assholes. Those are my parenting outcomes. And to be independent. I'll add a fourth to that. I want to be able to launch successfully. It says nothing about grades. It says nothing about, like, I want them to be good, kind people, don't suck. And like, be effective communicators and be able to launch things that when I remind myself of that framework, and that's the mindfulness work, that's journaling, that's me pausing and being like, jessica, what are you trying to accomplish right now? When I can start to do that? And that took me a really long time because the emotions get hot for me, then I'm able to parent more flexibly and effectively.

[B]

I'm so glad that you defined that framework because I was really curious. Like, I was thinking, well, I don't have a framework. I don't even know what a framework is. So for you to define it that way is so helpful.

[C]

So, like, that's the fun little trick when I talk about. And as a behavior. Behavior therapist, you know, I. I take an acceptance and commitment based approach, which is a third wave therapy. You can read about it, but it's, you know, accepting and not not accepting what can or cannot change. It's just, it's. It's the greater acceptance. Okay, this is my life. These are the things I want. Here are the Values. And these are the things that. How I want to show up and what I want to teach my kids and how I want them to show up in this fun thing called life and committing to the process. And I always tell my parents, and I tell my kids, it's consistency, not perfection.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

And even if you look at. If you're a parent, you look at a kid's iep, we're looking to do a skill or do a task 80% of the time.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

Or three out of five. Like, we're not looking for 100% unless it's a more, you know, advanced IEP. And those other goals have been attained. But, like, perfection is not something as that's a good goal in life. Neither is happiness either. So from an emotion regulation standpoint, I tell my kids, you're not happy, that's okay.

[E]

Yeah. Yeah, it's okay.

[C]

It's okay. And like, to be expected, actually. Yes. But parents don't think, oh, if they're not happy, there's a problem. There's not this. There's a problem. So there's a lot of, like, it's okay to not be okay. I know it's very cliche. And what's my framework? What am I actually trying to solve? What are my bigger picture things I want to accomplish? And when I can get clear on that, which, again, the structure that scratches the itch in my ADHD brain, it doesn't leave me, like, flailing, which then leads to the perfection and the paralysis. When I have my default framework, I can more effectively more often than not problem solve.

[B]

So good. I realized that I actually have used a framework. I mean, we all are operating out of a framework, I'm sure. Right.

[C]

We don't know it.

[B]

Exactly. And so I do have a question that I ask myself a lot, which is, do I want control or do I want connection?

[C]

Oh, I love that question.

[B]

Do I want control or do I want connection? And that has changed everything for me in my parenting and my relationship with my boys.

[C]

And I'm gonna add to that. Be flexible on that. Because sometime as a parent, like, we have to have control.

[B]

Totally.

[C]

Like, you're running into the street. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

But most of the time, it's for me. For me, it is connection. And sometimes it's the emotional. Sometimes it's, can we just connect to this moment?

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, if what is going on in the here and now? Because if my daughter's upset about something, if I can get them to focus on the here and now and settle in and get the emotions to kind of. I don't wanna say calm down, but just help them get a little bit more regulated. Use strategies to connect to the moment and not be on a level 10 themselves. Then I can have a more productive conversation.

[E]

Totally.

[C]

Because in my world and a lot of the work we do with parents and whatnot, it's not that one issue. Sometimes my kids are at a level 10, not because they're hungry or a problem that I can solve. Sometimes it's because there's some BS happening on the playground or in my world, the kids going back and forth between two houses. And some of the stresses that I actually do attempt to control. Some of the stresses I can and try to mediate. But as I tell my kids too, like, so your issue is that your parents are divorced.

[E]

Okay.

[C]

Someone else is going to have some other issue. Like, I don't. This might be aggressive, but like, I don't feel bad for you that that's your issue.

[B]

This is how.

[C]

This is the deck that you were dealt. And I'm not going to say it could be worse, even though it is. I'm not going to say it could be better, because it is. I'm not here to judge their experience. I am here to teach you the skill of. Here's the hand that was dealt to you that you might not have control over, but I can help you either. Sometimes I can pull the puppet strings as the parent, but how can I teach you to sit with the emotional issues that come up with that, Whether it's school, home, whatever it is. And how can we not even problem solve? How can we just maybe be with that? Sometimes these issues that kids are facing, especially in the preteen teenage years, they are big, they are heavy. And I don't have the magic wand. If I had the magic wand, I would be on a yacht in Turks and Caicos. Cause I'd be able to solve everyone's problems and to be a parent and to recognize that. That it's not my job to solve the problems. But I'm ride or die with you on it. Like, you're the captain of your life. I'm the first mate. I'm not going anywhere. I tell that to my kids and I tell it to my patients too. Like, unless you get too far to those edges, I gotta take over the ship. I'm right. I'm right here with you. There's nothing we can't figure out together. Let's take a breath. I'm not going anywhere. My younger one, especially, she gets a Little spicy. She's like, get out of my room. I said, okay, I'm gonna come back in about a minute. Cause she actually doesn't want to be alone. But she had said to me once, she's like, it feels so big and heavy, Mom. And I don't know what to do.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

So we have a plan.

[E]

Yep.

[C]

And we execute on it. I say, I come back, and sometimes it's a little bit of back and forth, and she finally lets me give her a hug.

[B]

What are the qualities of a ride or die parent? I just love the way you use that term. And Tamara Rosier was here, here a little while ago, and she also talked about, like, she wished that she had ride or die parents. And I've been thinking about that since then. What do you think goes into. What does it take to be a ride or die parent? How can we be that for our kids?

[C]

The psychologist in me is gonna first answer that. But there are also, like, cultural norms around that in terms of, like, how. How we are showing up for our kids. Defined, you know, to some extent, defiant. Defined by our culture. Whether that's on a macro level or even on a. On a micro level in my home, how I execute it. Again, my framework for what defines ride or die is, I can't help you if I don't know the problem. And I say that to my patients, too. There's nothing that you can't tell me that's going to get me to the point where, like, you're not my kid anymore. You're not this, you're not that. I am here.

[B]

Do we need to say that to our kids?

[C]

Yes.

[E]

Okay.

[C]

Because they need to believe it. Especially if you think your child might have an issue with emotion regulation, whether or not it's even clinically diagnosable. Even if they don't. Like, if my kid's at a party when they're older and there's drinking or drugs or some other shit that's getting funky, I want them to be able to text me without fear of consequences. I am ride or die. I'm not going anywhere. Now, that doesn't mean that there might not be consequences. But I tell my kids the consequences are going to be far less if I'm. If I'm in the loop. If you're lying or keeping something from me, like, then we have a problem. But even then, I'm not punishment focused. Like, doesn't mean I won't tear my kids a new one from time to time. I am interested in solving the problem. If I Can solve the problem then, or if I can understand the problem again, the behavior is. To me, it decreases the likelihood of that problem occurring consistently in the future. I can't extinguish something in one fell swoop, but I can minimize the likelihood and decrease the likelihood of something happening.

[E]

Yes.

[B]

So it's expressing to our kids that we're here no matter what and actually meaning it.

[C]

And actually meaning it and showing up.

[B]

In that way, which, by the way.

[C]

If you as a parent have an issue and have difficulties with emotion regulation, that means you have to be flexible. And that flexibility that comes with, again, difficulties with adhd, comorbid conditions like anxiety. Sometimes that can be really hard because, hey, that structure that helped me get through things so well, sometimes it backfires when your child does something that wasn't a part of the plan and they weren't supposed to do that. So then I might become a dysregulated parent and, like, drop the hammer, because I'm pissed off in that moment. And I have done that too. But that's when I really check with myself and say, okay, did the punishment fit the crime here? And honestly, nine times out of 10, if I'm getting to that level, it's because something in me was tweaked or I'm tired or whatever. But also sometimes it's like they did say something four or five times and like, that pissed me off. And like, there are consequences. Like, I. If I want my kids to know, regardless of all these things, like, if you have a job or you're trying to do something in the future, like, if you piss your boss off, you could lose your job. Like, I'm not trying. I'm not interested in coddling. I'm interested in hand holding and walking by right aside you to the point where my pace will get a little slower, but it's never gonna fully stop. Right? Like, I'm always gonna be walking along with you. Right now I'm right here, but I'm never gonna stop walking with you. I'm always here. But you get to the point where you're older, you launch, you go to college, you do your own family. I'm still walking. I'm here with you through anything. Good. But sometimes it's hard. Oh, my gosh, it's so. I don't wanna minimize the emotional work that goes into that and how incredibly taxing it can be when you're also trying to juggle your schedule and the structure and the task initiation. Like, I gotta start this report. And I thought I would be able to do more work tonight. But like my kids need me and this and that and it is so hard. But that's where sometimes I've gotten to the point where I just surrender to the difficulty and say, okay, tomorrow's another day.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

And if it's, I'm fortunate as a business owner and sometimes it's a double edged sword that I am my own boss so I don't get yelled at. But like I still have deliverables for my team, for my patients. Like that can be a slippery slope. But again, the framework and the priorities of what is necessary, what has to happen, that's also time specific and what might not be. And for me, a lot of the times it's the connection piece, not the control. How can I connect with people, how can I communicate with my boss if I'm behind on a deadline because of something that happened? As opposed to waiting to the last minute because that stressor will ultimately trickle down into the home environment too.

[B]

So good. Okay, last question. How important is the repair process and what should that look like?

[C]

It's incredibly important because kids need to know that it is not just about. It's not just about what the parents said and it's not this thing that just because you're the adult and you're older than me that you're always right. I think the repair process is also timing because if we're both still at levels that are the temperature's a little too hot, that's not happening again, like I said before, I think it's also important to not dump on your child. I think it's important to be clear in your communication without blaming, well, you did this. No, what's my accountability? And I'm sorry. And not everything is about, well, I'm a single parent, so this is tricky that this is happening or daddy or mommy's traveling a lot for work. Like that can't always be the default, even though it's true, because guess what then that might put guilt and other stuff on your children that is not theirs to bear. It's not theirs to bear. At some point they will be adults and they can make their own choices in life. But having a job where a parent is traveling and in and out a lot was not their choice. Being divorced was not their choice. They are living with the consequences of our actions. And I acknowledge that a lot in the repair process. And we also come up with a plan for like, how can we again minimize. What can we all. What can we both do different? Not even so much Better or worse, but different to attempt to avoid this. But I always remind them, if it happens again, we'll just deal with it again. And that's okay. And that's okay.

[B]

There's so much trust in that. And I'm so appreciative to you for modeling that for us.

[C]

I mean, don't get me wrong. Like, back in November, my younger daughter pissed me off so much to the point that I threatened, if you don't stop doing this, I'm gonna throw away your Halloween candy. And I did that. Like, I literally took her entire bag, dumped it in my garbage can, then made a show of knotting it up, throwing it. The garbage out the door and throwing it out to the dumpster behind my apartment building while she watched out the window. And I'm like, good, you little shitling. Throwing out your kid. And we both took. She even said she's like, you know, I kind of get why you did that, because you asked me four or five times to do something, and I said, I appreciate that. But I also realized we were both exhausted.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

And there's a part of me, if I'm being real honest, I was looking to get rid of that candy. I was done with the Halloween candy. I don't want to wait for in our house. The elf on the Snell, the elf on the shelf, and Snoop on a stoop comes to take the candy. I'm not waiting till Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving's late this year. That stuff had to.

[E]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

So good. Not perfect, but perfection's not the goal either.

[E]

That's beautiful.

[B]

Thank you so much for being here. You are a jazz snack, if you will.

[C]

A little parenting snack. My pleasure.

[B]

Dr. Jessica McCarthy. Tell us where we can find you.

[C]

You can Google us. We're at Elements Psychological Services. Our practice is in northern New Jersey, and we're working on opening a location in central Jersey. We are on Instagram, Elements Underscore Psych, and my professional handle is Dr. Dr. Jessica.

[B]

We will link all of it in the show notes. As usual.

[C]

So fun to have you back again soon. Over and over.

[B]

Thanks so much for being here.

[D]

Hey, Adhder.

[B]

I see you.

[A]

I know exactly what it's like to feel lost, confused, frustrated, and like, no one out there really understands the way that your brain works. That's why I created Focused. Focused is my monthly coaching program where I lead you through a step by step process of understanding yourself, feeling better, and creating the life that you know you're meant for. You'll study, be coached, grow, and make amazing changes alongside of other educated professional adults with ADHD from all over the world. Visit ihaveadhd.com focused to learn more.