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I Have ADHD Podcast
304 ADHD at Work: Should You Spill the Beans to Your Boss? How to Thrive in Any Job!
00:54:16
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- [00:06]
A
Welcome to the I have ADHD podcast, where it's all about education, encouragement, and coaching for adults with adhd. I'm your host, Kristen Carter, and I have adhd. Let's chat about the frustrations, humor, and challenges of adulting, relationships, working and achieving with this neurodevelopmental disorder. I'll help you understand your unique brain, unlock your potential, and move from point point A to point B. Hey, what's up? This is Kristin Carter, and you've tuned in to the I have ADHD podcast. I am medicated, caffeinated, regulated, and ready to roll. Today we are talking about ADHD at Work. ADHD in the workplace. How to survive your career when you have adhd. And with me is Megan Brown Enya. She's an ADHD coach, a social worker, and an entrepreneur dedicated to helping people with ADHD thrive in their careers and business. With over 15 years of experience in operations, HR, and nonprofit leadership, she specializes in executive function strategies, workplace accommodations, and professional development. That's exactly what we're going to be talking about today. As the founder of ADHD at Work, Megan provides coaching courses and resources tailored to the unique needs of neurodivergent professionals, entrepreneurs, and working moms. Her expertise extends to leadership coaching, career counseling, and creating structured support systems that empower people with ADHD to succeed. She's also an advocate for ADHD awareness and accessibility and frequently speaks at conferences and develops educational materials, including her executive Function Information Guide. Megan actually is, I would consider, a personal friend of mine. She has been coaching in the Focus program for two years now. She is a community manager with. We adore her, and it's been so fun to have her in the studio. I got to hug her. I get to have lunch with her. We had the best time, and I'm so happy to welcome her today. So, Megan, thank you so much for being here. It's been awesome to have you in person.
- [02:18]
B
Yes, thank you. Thank you for having me here. I was a little nervous, but I have calmed down.
- [02:25]
A
It's perfect.
- [02:26]
B
Calm down. I have regulated my own adhd, turned off all my alarms, and so now I'm ready to go.
- [02:32]
A
That's good. Awesome. Well, tell us a little bit about your ADHD journey. So you're fairly new, diagnosed. What's that experience been like?
- [02:39]
B
I was diagnosed about four years ago at this point, and, you know, social media got me, the pandemic got me, and I was trying to survive through the pandemic and trying to really better understand why I was feeling the way that I was feeling. And it helped that I was a little obsessed with social media at the time, and because I was at home and trying to avoid the work that I was supposed to be doing. And I started to scroll through posts, and somebody was talking about ADHD and entrepreneurship. And then after I went through my rabbit hole, I realized, like, hmm, maybe. Maybe this is me. And then consulted. I was working for Early Childhood Intervention Center. So I have colleagues that were literally diagnosing kids with ADHD and other disabilities every day. And then so when I was asking my colleagues, they're like, of course you have adhd.
- [03:30]
A
Didn't you know?
- [03:31]
B
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And it's like, why didn't you tell me?
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A
Oh, my gosh. So you were diagnosed in 2021. What has changed for you since then?
- [03:45]
B
I quit my job.
- [03:47]
A
Yes.
- [03:49]
B
I quit my job because of the.
- [03:50]
A
Understanding that you have of your adhd.
- [03:53]
B
It was because it was starting to really take a toll on my personal life and as well as my own mental health. And now that it was about the why I was struggling, and I understood that I was just doing too much and the company was allowing me to do too much, and it really wasn't supporting difference in that way. And I was starting to get really triggered. And it was the moment when you drive to work and you sit outside in your car for about 25 minutes, and the only reason why you're walking into the office is because your director walks by you and they're giving you that look like, are you gonna come inside the office? I'm like, oh, ye. I will. And so I just. I started to really realize, like, sitting outside in your car for 25 minutes before you walk into the office was a signal for me that you think, yeah. And it was a time for me to move on. And then once I realized that there wasn't anything that I could actually do about that position to better support the way that my brain worked, then I needed to find something and to do something that was gonna be better for me and for my own mental health.
- [05:02]
A
So you transitioned to coaching right around that time?
- [05:05]
B
A little bit. I transitioned to another job after that, and that was even worse. And so after I transitioned out of that job, I transitioned to coaching full time because I realized I needed to be able to set my schedule. I needed to be able to work from home when I needed to or change my environment. And the workplaces that I was in at the time were not very supportive of that. And then in both positions, I also had direct reports that had adhd. So as I was learning more about ADHD and then working with my direct reports also, I realized I was trying to create a supportive environment for them, but the organization I was working for was not. And then that just triggered me also, you know, the social justice ADHD connection. It was not making me happy. Like, I was getting upset not being able to support my direct reports in the way that I knew was going to be the most helpful for them because nobody else understood. Yeah.
- [05:59]
A
So we're going to talk a lot about what a supportive work environment looks like eventually, but let's kind of back up a little bit. And can you help us to understand, like, how does ADHD even impact someone at work? So someone at work, someone in a career, like, how does ADHD kind of come to bite them in the butt a little bit?
- [06:26]
B
So I would say, and it happens in both ways. It can happen in a really good way, but then it can. So it can have a negative impact, but it can also have a really positive impact. So you see those CEOs and those leaders and those visionaries that have ADHD, or you have those entrepreneurs that are running their own companies and they have staff of 50, 100, 150 people, because their level of creativity and vision is really being able to drive that organization of success. And so you see that. But then you also see the nine to fiver or the worker bee that is struggling being in a position that is really taxing all of their weaker executive functions that are drastically impacted by adhd. And they're not able to either have the right supports, they're working with a manager that doesn't understand or is expecting their workers to be able to do something in a certain way that doesn't meet their own expectation. And then so now the ADHD employee is struggling for to. To be able to be successful in their role because they don't know what's going on, or they do and they're not in a supportive environment.
- [07:32]
A
Do ADHDers make good worker bees? Like, it's so interesting that you. That you use that term, because when I think about myself, some of the hardest work that I do, or the. Let me say it this way, some of the hardest work to get myself to do is, is the worker be work? Like I suffer under the. The weight of the worker be work? So, like, is that kind of across the board? Like, would you say ADHD don't really make good worker bees or is it just like, it just kind of depends on what flavor of ADHD you're working with?
- [08:03]
B
I think it would depend on what flavor of ADHD that you're working with and what flavor of organization you're working for. And so I think there's a difference when you're a worker bee, but you're allowed the space to allow your cognitive impulsivity to flourish. And so you're in that meeting and you're coming up with all these different ideas, and you've been allowed to be able to share those ideas in a very structured way, and it allows you to feel supported in that way. The flexibility that you need in order to work works for you. So, like, you can do the individual task if it's something that is you're passionate about, interested in, but you're allowed to do it in the space that works for you. And so you're not confined to sitting in the chair in this open space and trying to do these tasks, knowing that your space is next to the elevator and it's dinging, like, every two seconds, or people are walking by every two seconds and trying to ask you a question. But you're in a space that's supportive, allows you to create those boundaries that says, not now. Like, I can't talk to you right now. I have these tasks that I need to complete, or I get to go to the coffee shop and be able to order my favorite latte, because that's the reward I get for completing this task. And so I think it just depends on the job and your interest and.
- [09:23]
A
What it is that you're doing that makes sense. It would be very probably confining to just make a blanket statement like ADHDers shouldn't be worker bees. I fully understand that. So if there's flexibility within the work environment that allows someone to kind of perform at their highest level when it's best for them, create boundaries when they need to create boundaries, get interested in the things that they're allowed to, like, have the flexibility to get interested in different areas, Right?
- [09:55]
B
Yep, exactly. And it's. Or if you're in an environment. So, for example, people live on email, Right. And so there's some organizations that, you know, you check your email twice a day and it's not a big problem. Then there's other organizations that you work for or other directors or bosses or leaders that you work for, and they're expecting you to answer every single last email the moment that you send it.
- [10:15]
A
Yes.
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B
And so that organizational culture difference can make a break at adhd. And so you really need to be able to be clear about what organization that you're working for. And what that culture is and whether or not that culture is going to be supportive of neuro difference or not.
- [10:32]
A
Ooh, okay, so we're going to put a pin in that because I really want to be like, okay, so how do we do that? But I think we need to save that for a little bit later because that's a con. That is definitely a conversation we need to have. Let's though stick right now to the difficulties at work. What are some of the, what do you think are some of the biggest challenges that ADHDers face at work? So you mentioned, like if an environment is really inflexible, what are some other challenges that ADHDers face at work?
- [11:05]
B
I'm going to speak in the language of executive functions. Right? Okay, great. So let's say like your emotional dysregulation. So you know, within focus, you do a lot of mindset coaching. The emotional dysregulation that can be happen within the workplace is massive. And it could be anything from things that are happening to your personal life that is now bleeding into the work that you're doing. Or it's just this one colleague, like on Monday she's great, but on Tuesday not so much. Or you're in meetings with, in meetings and you don't really. You're not clear about why you're there. And so now you're attending this meeting where you're completely. You're bored out of your mind. And so now you're just ruminating about why am I here? And so now you're stuck in that place just emotionally. And so now you're emotionally dysregulated, right? Cause you're like, this is like, this is such a waste of time. Why am I here? What is the purpose? I could have been doing X, Y and Z. I actually have stuff to do and now I have to sit in this space. And so now you have feelings about your boss, you have feelings about the people that are in the meeting. So now that is triggering some, like, it's just, it's triggering. And so then you don't have the opportunity to really be as productive until you get that into check 100%. And then, but also like organization is a, can be a weaker executive function sometimes with the adhd. And so you're. Maybe you have your own office, maybe you don't. But is that clutter in that space causing you to either be distracted because there's just so much around you or. Or is it causing you time issues? So is it impacting your time? Is now you can't find anything. And so, like, oh, I have this report that I need to do, but I really need these three documents, and I have no idea where they are. So now I've spent the last 45 minutes trying to either find them on my computer, find them in my drawer, maybe they're on my colleague's desk. Maybe they're in the lunchroom where I left them because I was distracted by something else and I left all of my papers around the corner. Or maybe I was working from home last week, and now this week I'm in the office, but everything that I need is back at home. And so now you've had this entire conversation with yourself about where the heck are these documents? And now nothing is. Nothing is done. Like, yep, yep, an hour.
- [13:25]
A
And you're emotionally dysregulated again, Right? And yeah, everything is just like, you're also pretending to work because you don't want to look unproductive. Right. So then you're masking. So that takes a toll as well.
- [13:39]
B
Or you just decide to work on a completely different project that's not a priority. It needs to be done, but it's not a priority. But then, so when you're going into your check in later in that week, and the three things that you're actually supposed to be working on aren't done, but the 15 other things that were on the list but not top priority are now done. But at the end of the day, your direct supervisor is like, yeah, but where are these three things?
- [14:03]
A
You don't get the credit. Really? Dang.
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B
Okay, so now you're emotionally dysregulated again.
- [14:08]
A
And now does everything come back to emotional regulation? Oh, my gosh. So emotional regulation, organization. Talk about working memory issues in the workplace.
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B
Yeah. So working memory can come up in a lot of different ways. So one depending on, again, a lot of it kind of is like role dependent. Right? But like, let's say just because we've been talking about being in an office, you're in an office and you're direct. Like, supervisor is one of those direct supervisors that is just talking to you on the fly and you're in the hallway and you're having these conversations or you're at a business meeting or something like off campus, and you're, you're trying to get this work done, but you really only remembered three of the details. And so then you go back and you're like, oh, I'm supposed to be working on this project and I have absolutely no idea what it is. I'm supposed to be doing, but do I ask or do I just pretend that it is that I know? Is this something that I can Google? Like, and how do I.
- [15:09]
A
How do I find out without actually letting them know that I didn't really remember what they asked me to do? How do I figure it out without going to them and being like, I have no idea what you said.
- [15:21]
B
Yeah, yeah, that. And also if networking is really a part of your job and so now you're, you're lobbying or something, that requires you to really be. Remember some important information about people because that's going to impact your, impact your work. And how many times have you been in a space? It's like, I know everything about this person except this person's name. And the only thing that they care about is whether or not I know their name.
- [15:45]
A
Yep. Yep. Oh, I feel that. Sonia, please. I called someone in my real life the wrong name. And I know her name, but I referred to her as the wrong name. And the shame that just like washed over me. Cause I'm like, wait a second, that's not your name. And I literally was like, that's not your name. But it just wouldn't come to me. And I was like, oh my gosh, if the earth could just open up and like swallow me, I would opt for like, where's that easy button? Cause like, get me out of here.
- [16:17]
B
Yeah. And so trying to, you know, make those connections, make those like, improve those relationships. If relationship building is a part of your job, like, that can impact it. And so, you know, working memory is all about being able to. It's like your active memory. So trying to be able to identify, remember things that you actively need to use in the moment or a little bit later. So it's different from short term and long term memory.
- [16:39]
A
Yeah.
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B
And so it's those tasks that are related that utilize that particular skill set that can be impacted totally.
- [16:49]
A
Time blindness is a executive function that really impacts ADHDers. I think it's pretty obvious we can all make assumptions about how it might impact us at work. What do you hear from your clients regarding time blindness that are like the biggest pain points from them?
- [17:07]
B
This project has turned in late. Oh yeah. And now I'm getting in trouble because I'm showing up to meetings late, even if they're in person or online. Yeah, I'm turning in projects late and I'm. And or I'm being so distracted throughout the day that I'm not realizing how much time is being dedicated to the distractions versus dedicated to the time that will allow me to be productive. I would say those things come up a lot.
- [17:38]
A
I'm glad that you brought up distractions because you're just. You're showing the overlap of symptoms. So it's like. It's not just time blindness, but it's also like the distractibility, impairing. And then along with that, it's like impulsivity because I'm distracted. And now I'm impulsively going after that thing that I've been distracted by.
- [18:01]
B
And also planning and prioritization, too. It's like, I don't. I have. So. And that kind of also bleeds into organization, too. So it's not just organ. How are you organizing your external space, but also how are you organizing content within your brain? And so then that will impact planning and prioritization. Like, I don't know where to start. And so I'm spending time in, like, an X amount of time.
- [18:25]
A
Yes.
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B
And now so much time has gone by because I don't know where to start. Yeah. Yeah. Because things aren't prioritized.
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A
It's all connected.
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B
It's really all. It is really all connected. So something you have, information is like, you have all these tasks that's going on in your head, and now you can't organize them. So now you can't prioritize them. And then now you're staring into space because you don't know what to do, or you just do something else that's completely unrelated. Now you're distracted. Now you've gone down a rabbit hole.
- [18:54]
A
I'm getting hot.
- [18:57]
B
And now nothing's done. And then it's the end of the week. And now you have this meeting with your manager, and you're like, oh, shoot, this is in 20 minutes. Can I do a week's worth in 20 minutes?
- [19:05]
A
Right. All of the symptoms overlap. They're all really working against us in many ways. When someone finds out that they have adhd, or maybe they already knew, should they tell their boss? Like, what do you do with that? I get that question a lot. I would love for someone like yourself, who's actually an expert in this area, to speak on it, because I think it's a really tricky conversation to have. Like, does someone with ADHD disclose that information to their boss, to their co workers? What's your take on that? How do you advise people?
- [19:40]
B
I always say it's a personal decision. Do you have the right to. Under civil rights laws within the United States? Yes. And do you have the right to access. To access different supports and get accommodations in your workplace underneath the law? Yes. However.
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A
Big. However.
- [19:59]
B
However.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Do you feel safe? Is one question I always ask. Like, do you feel safe enough to disclose at work? And that answer to that question could be yes or no.
- [20:11]
A
Can you define safe? So when some. For somebody listening who's like, I don't really know what you mean when you're asking me, do you feel safe? How would someone know if they felt safe?
- [20:23]
B
Do you have a physical response with me saying, like, you should disclose at work? Do you feel comfort enough to disclose to your colleagues? Do you fear judgment? Do you feel like your boss will retaliate against you? Like, of course. Do you have rights that, like, they should prevent you from being.
- [20:41]
A
Right. Right.
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B
There's a lot of shirts happening. Right. And so because as we all know, civil rights laws, people follow them and some people don't.
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A
Yeah.
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B
But I think it's really important. It's really important for you to be able to identify if you feel psychologically safe in that space. And that's going to require you to understand how it feels to either not be safe or to be safe in different environments, if that makes sense. And so do you have an environment? Do you work with a supervisor that is really supportive for you in other ways?
- [21:16]
A
Right. Have you seen evidence of it happening?
- [21:19]
B
Right.
- [21:20]
A
Yes.
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B
And if you haven't, then. And in some places you don't. You don't care. Like, is safety even important to you or not? Right. Like, sometimes it's like, listen, I don't care if it's safe or not. This is the law, and this is the right that I have. And if you choose to break the law, then great, I will just file a complaint and then we will just be in a lawsuit. And I'm okay with that, too.
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A
Right. Right.
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B
And so trying to decide what is the most important for you, too. But then you also have to know, like, do you know your rights? Do you know that you have the right to ask for accommodations? Yes or no. Do you have. Do you know who to go to? Right. To ask for. And you add. Asked whether or not you should go for your. Your supervisor or hr.
- [22:02]
A
Right.
- [22:03]
B
You can go to either. But recognizing that once you disclose, your supervisor. Your supervisor needs to understand that you're just. You're disclosing to the agency, and then they need to do something in response. A lot of the times as people tell their supervisor and the supervisor is like, okay.
- [22:20]
A
Oh, they don't actually do anything about it.
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B
No. Yeah. And so they're not asking whether or not you're looking for accommodations. Like, they may not connect you with HR so that you can better understand the process. Because sometimes managers don't know. Or sometimes the manager's like, oh, I have ADHD too. Okay, great.
- [22:35]
A
But that doesn't help me.
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B
That does not help me. And. And then you're looking at them like, great, you know that you can ask for accommodations too. And actually, if you got accommodations, maybe our meetings wouldn't be as long as they were and we would be able to stay focused on the task. Because your inability to stay focused on the task is now negatively impacting me as a direct report with adhd. And now none of us are getting help and none of us are accessing our rights underneath the law and working.
- [23:02]
A
Oh, my goodness, I'm on a health kick right now, and my kids are so annoyed at me. I've changed the type of rice and pasta and bread that we eat at home. I've even eliminated all breakfast cereals from the house. No more Captain Crunch or Cinnamon Toast Crunch to be found in the Carter home. It's a true ADHD hyper focus for me right now. But one thing that I've stuck with and I don't think I'll ever stop taking is AG1. I, Kristen Carter, an adult with ADHD, have been able to be consistent with taking AG1 every single day for a long time. It's the first thing I do when I wake up in the morning, before coffee, before anything. It literally takes me about 60 to 90 seconds to just scoop it into some cold water, shake it up, and drink it. It really is so easy. And I'm traveling with my family to Indiana for the holidays. We'll be staying in a hotel, eating out for a lot of our meals, and generally partaking in lots of non healthy activities, which is fine because balance, you know what I'm saying? And I know that I can stay consistent with AG1. Same to their travel packs. I'm just gonna pop six travel packs into my shaker, slip that baby into my travel bag, and done. It's so simple, I don't even have to think about it. So I encourage you this new year, if you want to do one thing to improve your health as an adult with ADHD, try AG1 for yourself. It's the perfect time to start a new healthy habit. And that's why I've been partnering with AG1 for so long. And listen to this. AG1 is offering new subscribers a free $76 gift. When you sign up, you'll get a welcome Kit, a bottle of D3K2 and five free travel packs just like I'm going to be using over the holidays. You'll get all of that in your first box. So make sure to check out drinkag1.com IhaveADHD to get this offer. That's, that's drinkag1.com IhaveadHD to start your new year on a healthier note. Tell me the perfect scenario. How should it go? Like if everything is working properly, how should it go? When someone discloses their ADHD diagnosis at.
- [25:20]
B
Work, you put it in writing for sure. Sending an email, send an email that's asking your HR department about the reasonable accommodations process and letting them know that you would like to access accommodations at work for a disability that you're experiencing within the workplace and then allow the HR department to provide you with the documentation that you are required to fill out in some cases so that you can get, they can get a clear understanding of how the disability is impacting your work. And then from there it's supposed to be an interactive process and it's ongoing. And so even if this, you go back and forth about what accomodations could work for you, then you try them out. You try them out. It's almost like taking ADHD medication for the first time, right? It's like I'm trying this out for a little bit and seeing how the dosage works. The same thing like you're accessing accommodations, you're like actually you know what, this was working for about a week and it's not working anymore. Let's kind of go back to the drawing board. Or like now that I've tried this out a little bit, I want to do something else or I found out that there's other things that I can do that I want to now ask for. And it's a interactive process. But also recognizing that underneath the law is a reasonable accommodation. And reasonable is defined by the organization, not by the person like using the accommodation.
- [26:45]
A
Can you speak to that a little bit? So reasonable accommodation, that's a very interesting qualifier. Not just any accommodation, a reasonable accommodation. So speak to that a little bit.
- [26:57]
B
Yeah, and a reasonable accommodation, I mean, and that's one that doesn't negatively impact the organization. So whether or not that's financial, whether or not that's like, let's say the organization at the time is really short staffed and you're working remote or yeah, you're working remote, but they have a lot of in person work that needs to get done, then it may not be a reasonable accommodation anymore from the consideration of the employee's perspective. That from you, from working from home.
- [27:21]
A
Yeah.
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B
And so, like, is it going to be a financial burden for the organization? Like, let's say it's. Well, ADA is covered employers for 15 or more employees.
- [27:33]
A
Okay.
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B
And so like, let's say it's a really small organization. They have 15 employees and now they have to provide.
- [27:39]
A
It's like just 15. It's a small little company. Yeah.
- [27:42]
B
They don't have a lot of money. And so maybe you're asking for them to pay for a conference ticket to.
- [27:49]
A
A photo or a conference or coaching.
- [27:50]
B
Or something like that and it's too expensive then. Or if it's going to be a financial burden, then they may say. They may say no, they may determine that it's not a reasonable thing for them to do.
- [28:00]
A
Interesting.
- [28:01]
B
But again, reasonable is defined by the organization and sometimes the court will decide. And so.
- [28:08]
A
And what you mean by that is you do have the right to be accommodated? Is that what you're saying?
- [28:16]
B
Yeah, you do have the right to be accommodated. If you have a qualifying disability, you have the right to be accommodated. And then if they, you know, if the organization chooses to not follow the process and you want to complain, you have the right to complain. You can complain to the EEOC if you would like to.
- [28:36]
A
Okay, so the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.
- [28:39]
B
Yes. And you can file a complaint there and they will follow up with you about it. Okay. You can also, I mean, you know, if you're having trouble with your manager, you can also communicate to your own HR department too. Like, hey, I'm having, I'm having some, some challenges working with my manager around these accommodations. Can you help me with that? And that's the same thing. You know, sometimes I also work with professors. Right. And so what happens in the educational institution and what happens within a 9 to 5 office job can feel very different. And so if you're a professor, recognizing that you're working for a company and you know, whether or not their reporting structure is really different, and so whether or not you're having a hard time getting your accommodations put into place, it made you talk to the, you have to talk to the HR department or like the disability. Some people, some offices or organizations have a disabilities office, and so that helps support employees too. So it kind of just depends on where you're working, but you need to know where to go.
- [29:40]
A
That seems like the main point that you're trying to communicate is like, figure out in your organization what the chain of command is with accommodating for disabilities, Correct?
- [29:54]
B
Yes.
- [29:55]
A
And is there a way to do that without actually disclosing? So, like, if I were just interested, but kind of trying to figure out, like, I don't even know if I want to disclose, like, how do I ask for that information without spilling the beans and like telling everything about my life?
- [30:11]
B
Yeah. I mean, you can ask. I mean, you can ask general questions in terms of just fully understanding what services your HR department offers.
- [30:19]
A
Okay.
- [30:20]
B
Just to. Especially if you're a new employee and you're trying to, like, you can always lean on the fact, like, I've been here for five minutes and so I'm trying to get a better understanding of what my options are underneath your organization's culture, reading there. Most of the stuff is also in any operations manual.
- [30:35]
A
So if your organization, which we for sure haven't read.
- [30:38]
B
Right. And so if you haven't read it, just open the PDF and just do control F. And then just type in disability and then. Or accommodations. And then it will probably just take you to that section because most of them should also have a section within their operations manual that has that information.
- [30:54]
A
Even if you've been at the company 10 years, would it still be reasonable to ask these questions and say something like, hey, I, you know, I've had some recent diagnoses. I'm interested in just learning more about xyz. Can you help me to understand the process if I, if I were to want accommodations? So we. We haven't disclosed anything, but if I, if I were to want accommodations, what would be the process of that? And then letting them kind of give you the information.
- [31:23]
B
Right. And recognize too, like, accommodations isn't just for adhd. It's literally for anything. So, like, let's say you're working in a company when you broke your. You can ask for accommodations, temporary accommodations. If you broke your wrist and you need some additional. You need a different keyboard. If you didn't need a different chair. Like, it could. It covers a wide range of experiences and disabilities that people are experiencing within the workplace. And so it could. It doesn't. If you're not comfortable disclosing your adhd, maybe you're comfortable with disclosing something else. And what's helpful is actually, if you go to the Job Accommodations Network, Jan, and they actually organized, they really have a lot of information about disability and disability rights, but they also organize all the different types of disabilities as you could experience and then give you some sample accommodations that you could use in order to give that information to your supervisor. Because the other thing that you need to be clear about too is that if you are asking for accommodations, you need to know what accommodations you need.
- [32:27]
A
Oh, say more.
- [32:29]
B
So I could ask you say, hey, I have ADHD and I'm interested in access accommodations. And they're like, that's great, but what do you need?
- [32:36]
A
Oh, and then, so it can't be on them to figure it out or to make suggestions or to do anything like that.
- [32:43]
B
They can, like, if they're familiar with adhd, they had, they worked with other employee, employers, employees, sorry, employees that have adhd, they could be familiar with what is being requested. And so they may offer. But again, it's an interactive process. But you should walk to the table with, hey, I'm looking for X, Y and Z. Okay, these are the things that would be really helpful for me because HR isn't going to know your position the way that you are because a lot of us have position descriptions and then a lot of us do a completely different job that has absolutely nothing to do with the position description. And HR most likely is not going to know that. And so you're going to have to do some research. So I would say that's the other thing that you, before you disclose at work, you should be clear about what it is that you're asking for too.
- [33:28]
A
So that's some of the work that you do with your clients is like figuring out what type of accommodations to ask for.
- [33:35]
B
Yes. And so with all of my clients, we do an executive functioning assessment first, and then we'll. If they're trying to get a really clear list of accommodations that would be helpful for them. We also take a look at their position description and, or, and, or what they're actually doing.
- [33:51]
A
Sure.
- [33:52]
B
And so because it's like, how not only do you need to understand how your brain works, but you also need to understand how it impacts what you're actually doing in your particular role. And so there, yes, there are some accommodations that would be helpful for everybody having some flexible work time.
- [34:07]
A
Sure. Don't penalize me for getting here seven minutes late.
- [34:12]
B
Right. Having some flexibility around that. Right. Like if you're in an open work environment, having some headphones and having some option to sit in a space that causes like, less distraction. Sure. Yes, every, those should be helpful. But let's say you don't work in an office. What accommodations are going to work for your particular position based on the duties that you have to complete and based on how your brain is working. But so doing some, a Little bit of research on that is going to be helpful because then you can just come to HR with a list. It could be an exhaustive list. I told people like, listen, put everything on there. They're not going to do anything but say no, like yes or no. And they're going to decide whether or not that's reasonable or not.
- [34:50]
A
What are some examples of reasonable accommodations? And I know it's going to really be different for different positions, different companies, but what are some examples? So you mentioned even sitting in a quieter work environment or having noise canceling headphones, being able to get to work at flexible hours. What other things in general have you seen or have you helped clients advocate for themselves?
- [35:16]
B
One is also ensuring that you have structured and regular meetings with your direct supervisor.
- [35:23]
A
That is a workplace accommodation that I use for myself constantly.
- [35:28]
B
Constantly. And that you don't even have to disclose to do that. You can. So in some, like I personally have said, because my direct supervisor was having a really hard time with just having regular check ins. So I specifically asked for that because it wasn't happening. It was something that I knew that I needed. And as much as I advocated be like, you know what, it'd be really helpful if we could meet weekly on this or hey, I put a weekly calendar invite. And so but I need you to actually show up to these meetings. But since it wasn't happening, I said, okay, well now I need to actually ask for this so to kind of force you to do it in a way that allows me to get this done because I know that this actually is really important for me because not having it isn't working.
- [36:17]
A
Y.
- [36:18]
B
And so like asking for regular check ins is. Is helpful asking for certain software to help.
- [36:24]
A
Okay.
- [36:25]
B
Support your project management and keeping track of things. Yeah.
- [36:30]
A
I've heard like doctors and lawyers talk about different note taking software that they implement in their practices.
- [36:37]
B
Yeah, no. Yes, note taking software. Especially if you're attending in person or virtual meetings. Now again, but like some organizations may say that it's unreasonable because of security violation. And you know, in some cases when clients tell me that, I'm like, is it really though or do they just fear AI? Yeah, I'm like, do they ask the security officer that this is a security issue or are they just scared of AI or are they scared of actually having their conversations recorded?
- [37:07]
A
Yeah, very good questions because kind of red flaggy.
- [37:12]
B
Yes, yes, very rightful.
- [37:15]
A
Unless you're like the government or building rockets. Like, other than that, I think we're okay.
- [37:20]
B
We should be okay.
- [37:21]
A
Yeah.
- [37:22]
B
And so that's a, you can ask for that as well. Even different chairs. Yes. A different type of chair, different keyboard, A seconds monitor can also be really helpful too if you're working from home. Also asking for those things be like, I need not just one monitor, but I need two monitors at home. So another accommodation I think is really important and I believe people should definitely ask for is for some type of ADHD coaching service or option. Whether or not that's one on one coaching, whether or not that's group coaching, whether or not that's a platform that supports other ADHDers, asking for that additional ongoing support is going to be extremely helpful for you to. Because it's an ongoing thing. Like as you're learning more and more and more about how your brain works, every day is going to feel really different. And now you know, now that you're gaining some more awareness around your own adhd, being able to apply those new skills to your job is going to be extremely helpful.
- [38:24]
A
Is that something that you've seen companies cover for employees?
- [38:28]
B
Yes, employees will cover ADHD coaching, but again it determines whether or not they believe it's reasonable or not.
- [38:33]
A
But there's a chance. But you're saying there's a chance.
- [38:36]
B
There is a chance. There is a chance that your organization may pay for coaching and now they will want to know how long do you want to access coaching? Like it's not going to necessarily be forever and no accommodation is going to last forever. But if you, if there's something that you really want to gain from accessing one on one coaching and be very clear about what that is, then you can ask for that.
- [39:00]
A
Wow, that's so awesome. That's so great. So we've talked about like kind of green flags within a company of if you feel comfortable. Here's kind of the process of disclosure. What have you seen that are some red flags that would kind of alert people that it's not really safe to disclose and that maybe they should keep their cards close to their chest and not, not share that information. Like what, what are some things that you can kind of maybe warn our listeners with that they could be looking out for?
- [39:37]
B
Yeah. And I would, I would say that a red flag doesn't necessarily mean don't disclose.
- [39:41]
A
Okay.
- [39:42]
B
It's, it's be prepared.
- [39:44]
A
Okay, say more.
- [39:46]
B
And so because it, there could be a challenge with say your direct supervisor, your, your relationship's a little contentious. Right. And so maybe your supervisor hasn't been as supportive for your needs in general over the years or the weeks that you've been working with them. And so now disclosing this other thing may be a difficult pill to swallow for that particular manager because they may see you as like, oh, man, this is just another thing that I have to now quote, unquote, deal with. And although that should not be the perspective that any manager should have ever, ever, but you do, you do end up in those situations sometimes. And so that could potentially be a red flag. But that doesn't necessarily mean that you don't disclose. It means that you may need to advocate more for yourself and, or find other people within the organization to help support you in that process. And so that's where sometimes helping, like communicating to HR about it can be helpful too.
- [40:47]
A
Yes.
- [40:48]
B
And so getting some, what do they call them? Like, not, I don't want to say partners in crime. That's not the right word. But like, not teammates.
- [41:00]
A
But why is my brain not working? Getting some, like a support system.
- [41:06]
B
Yeah, yeah. Creating a support system within your organization. So if you can find a support system that can help navigate that process. And sometimes, I mean, so a colleague of mine, she just did, she has a doctorate, and so she did her research around the prevalence of ADHD or neurodiversity in the workplace. And so a lot of her, her results are around, like, there's 70% of the workplace is neurodiverse. And so, and that includes like, anxiety and depression, adhd, autism and dyslexia, dyscalculia, all of them. Right. And usually you're not the only one. And so finding some support within your organization is going to be helpful for you. And like, there's organizations that have neurodiverse community groups within their, within their company. And so being able to ask for those additional supports is going to be really helpful. And so the manager may be a red flag, but the rest of the organization is a green flag. And so you may just have to go a different route and be ready to kind of deal with the backlash of working with a manager that may not necessarily be as supportive.
- [42:14]
A
Yeah. And I think that it's just so important to remember that you are protected.
- [42:21]
B
You are protected. And this is also your job. This is your job and your livelihood. And so you have to ask yourself, what do you really want to deal with? Like, this is your career path and your career success, and do you want to move forward or do you want to stay stagnant? So, like, it's good. And so there may be some battles that you have to fight along the way, but Again, you have to make the decision for yourself. Are you looking to move forward in your career and recognize that there may be some haters along the way?
- [42:54]
A
Sure.
- [42:56]
B
Or are you not so just being prepared to deal with some of the negative consequences that can come with disclosing? Because there are definitely red flags for sure, but there are a lot of green flags too. And I think neurodiversity is becoming more well known within the workplace. And there's a lot of resources that organizations can go to also to find about how to support their employees better. And so organizations are shifting. It's just a matter of whether or not you're working for that organization that's looking to shift.
- [43:29]
A
Yes. Yeah, I think that that is such an interesting conversation, like, kind of getting a sense of the culture of the organization and like, are they kind of forward thinking and, and understanding the way that brains work and even, I mean, you mentioned earlier we were kind of like chatting off camera about like, the different intersectionalities of like, the, the different things that people struggle with or bring to the table or things that they need to advocate, to advocate for themselves for. Like, it's just, I do appreciate that we're learning and growing as a society in a lot of ways and hoping, hopefully making like, good progress in that way. But obviously there's still more work to do.
- [44:13]
B
There's a lot more work to do. And, you know, we focus a lot of our conversation about what happens once you're already in the work environment. Like, sometimes it's getting, getting there, getting there. And once you're in a work environment that you recognize, okay, this isn't for me, this isn't the organizational culture for me. So now I need to find something else. It's that process of finding something else where you also have to recognize how are your ADHD symptoms impacting your ability to apply to jobs, interview for jobs, write cover letters, edit your resume. So hard, so hard. Networking before you even get to the new opportunity. But just recognizing while you're trying to.
- [44:53]
A
Keep the job that you have, it's so much right.
- [44:56]
B
You're trying to not get fired from your current position while you're looking for a new position that's going to be more supportive of your adhd. And so a lot of that can be really hard. And so, you know, I support clients with that, that transition too.
- [45:11]
A
So I was going to ask you, like, what are some good accommodations? If somebody doesn't want to disclose what are some good accommodations that they can make for themselves, I feel like we've already touched on that though. It's basically everything that you would ask the company for, except the company doesn't pay for it. Would you, would you agree with that or is there something else that's like additional?
- [45:32]
B
Yeah, I mean, yeah. So we talked about, you know, making sure that you have structured meetings with your supervisor. Like you don't need to ask for that unless you need to kind of strong, strong arm hold your manager to do that. You don't necessarily need to like this time management tools that you can use. Like there are programs, there's project soft project management software that you can use without needing to access it. You can access body doubling.
- [45:57]
A
Disclosing is what you say.
- [45:58]
B
Without disclosing. Yeah, without disclosing you can access body doubling. You can access. You are in a position where you can be flexible. Like you know that you can adjust your own schedule because some positions you don't have to ask for flexibility. Like you're already in a position where you can be flexible. But are you using that to the best advantage to support your adhd? And so creating a schedule that will allow you to do that, Creating some routines around getting dressed if you're working from home or what does your routine look like? Are you accessing coffee? Like how are you transitioning yourself into work mode? And those things, like you don't need to ask, ask for accommodations for those things. You just need to know how your brain works. What, how to build habits that are going to be effective for the ADHD brain and really truly understand your weaker and stronger executive functions and making sure that you're accessing your strong ones and accommodating your weaker ones.
- [46:46]
A
Yes, it's so good. Oh my gosh, it's so good. So if there are managers or employers listening, what would you say to them about like working with and leading ADHDers? Like can we give a pep talk to like all the managers out there? Like if you could just stand on a stage and just speak to managers and employers like how would you encourage them about working with people with adhd?
- [47:19]
B
I mean one thing not to lecture a manager but also to say like your way of doing things isn't necessarily the only way that something has to get done.
- [47:28]
A
It's good.
- [47:29]
B
And so and I think it's really important as managers to understand your employees gifts and being able to access those. And it's encouraging and it creates a supportive work environment. But then also when you're managing people, like recognizing that as a manager your job is to make sure that people get work Done. Right. It's not people, as in, like, everybody. Like, it's that individual employee and recognizing that if you have a team of 10 people, that means you have a team of 10 people. And then each person may require something different from you if. In order to be successful in their role. So that means you need to learn who your employee is and then being able to access their strengths and understand what things that they may. Tools that they may need to access in order to get the job that you need to get them done. Done. And that could be really different for each employee. But if you're looking at managing people as there's only one way to do it and there's only one way to be successful, then that's not gonna work.
- [48:31]
A
That's not gonna work for us. No. Oh, my gosh. This has been so insightful for me. I. I was telling you this earlier, like, whenever we get a question in focus and we get a lot about ADHD at work, how do we. How do we, like, function within the work environment? What are my rights at work? I'm always just like. Like, Megan, I was like, immediately tag. Because I just. I've only ever been an entrepreneur, and I, like, yes, I can do the research, but I don't have the personal experience. And so I feel like I'm just not the best person to share about it. So I'm so, so glad that you are here to talk about it. Is there anything that we missed or anything else that's on your heart to share? Do you feel like there's.
- [49:20]
B
I was gonna say, I mean, I feel like it comes up a lot because we spend so much time at work.
- [49:26]
A
So true.
- [49:27]
B
Like, it's a minimum of 40 hours a week.
- [49:29]
A
So true.
- [49:30]
B
And then with the ADHD, it's probably 40 to 60 because we spent 20 hours of the first 40 doing something that we weren't supposed to be doing. And so because we're spending such a significant time in places that are allowing us to live the life that we actually want to live, like, this is our. This is. Is our jobs are the way that we sustain ourselves. And so it's. It's. It's. It's important. Right. It's important to be successful in your work within your career. Like, whether or not you're looking to grow in a particular place within your career, that's a personal decision. You know, that's the culture that you're. It's like some people just want to go to work and go home. Yep. Right. And some people want to say like, okay, well, this is. This is step one. And then I'm going to go to step two, and then I'm going to be the president of this organization when I'm finished with my career. And then I'm going to quit everything and live in Bali. Right. And so. And so, depending on what you're looking to get out of it, it doesn't matter. What matters is it's taking up a lot of your time, and you want to make sure that you're successful in that. In that space. I feel like that's why it comes up so much. It's. And there's also research around the impact that even just managers have on employees. Mental health. Right. Like, so there's research that says your employer has a greater impact on your mental health than your spouse.
- [50:50]
A
Whoa.
- [50:51]
B
And so recognizing that you're now not only spending a significant amount of time there, but you're also being impacted, like impacted in major ways. It's so critical to be able to focus on that particular part of working with adults with adhd, because we need to be successful in this place because our life depends on it.
- [51:14]
A
Yes. So if you're experiencing pain at work, let's. Let's work to remedy that. Because you spend so much time there, it impacts so much of your life. Your mental health, your ability to sustain yourself, your ability to. Do you have the ability to travel or not? That's dependent on your work. So being able, the choices, I guess the amount of choice and kind of power that you have to make decisions is really dependent on your livelihood and work. And I just love your approach of like, hey, we spend a lot of time there. We might as well not hate it. We might as well do a good job and enjoy it.
- [51:55]
B
Nobody wants to go to work every day and be miserable.
- [51:57]
A
Yes. So good.
- [51:59]
B
And you don't have to with adhd. You can, because you're experiencing a lot of negative. You may be experiencing a lot of negative feedback or you're just not successful in a way that you're defining success and you want to get there, but just don't know how. But it's so important to be able to take that time to really fully understand your brain and how to put things in place to help navigate the world that really isn't designed for us. Like, let's be clear.
- [52:27]
A
Yeah.
- [52:28]
B
The work world is not designed for difference of any kind. Of any kind. And so we have to be able to put certain things in place. But it does take two to tango. And so it's not just just us that need to do something different. It's also workplaces that need to create more inclusive environments.
- [52:48]
A
I love it if people are listening and they're just like this woman needs to help me immediately. How can people find you? How can somebody reach out to you and work, work with you?
- [53:00]
B
So they can find me directly on my website@adhdwork co.com co but also you can follow me on social media at ADHD at work and literally just go to my link tree and I'm accessible. You can schedule 20min with me if you want to. Just talk and we can think about what it looks like to work together.
- [53:19]
A
I love that. And we'll link all of that in our show notes. Thank you.
- [53:22]
B
You're welcome.
- [53:23]
A
This has been so good for my soul and I just, I know it's going to help so many people. So I really appreciate it.
- [53:29]
B
Yeah, I'm excited.
- [53:30]
A
Me too.
- [53:31]
B
I am. Thanks so much.
- [53:35]
A
Hey adhder. I see you. I know exactly what it's like to feel lost, confused, frustrated and like no one out there really understands the way that your brain works. That's why I created Focused. Focused is my monthly coaching program where I lead you through a step by step process of understanding yourself, feeling better, and creating the life that you know you're meant for. You'll study, be coached, grow and make amazing changes alongside of other educated professional adults with ADHD from all over the world. Visit ihaveadhd.com focused to learn more.