Podcast Summary: I Have ADHD Podcast – Episode 352

"The Kids Who Can’t Be Told What to Do: PDA & Low-Demand Parenting"

Host: Kristen Carder
Guest: Casey Ehrlich, PhD
Date: November 18, 2025

Episode Overview

This highly anticipated episode focuses on Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) in children, a topic frequently requested by listeners. Kristen Carder and leading PDA researcher Casey Ehrlich, PhD, explore what exactly PDA is, how it presents in kids (distinct from other neurotypes like ADHD or autism), and actionable ways families can support children with PDA—especially through “low-demand” or accommodating parenting. The conversation blends scientific explanation, Casey's powerful personal stories, and practical tips for parents.

Note: This summary skips all ads and promotional segments.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What is PDA?

• Definition & Core Mechanism ([04:18])

  • PDA is a nervous system-driven, survival response to perceived loss of autonomy and equality.
  • Unlike typical fight/flight/freeze responses to physical threats, the trigger for PDA is the perception that another person or situation is controlling or dominating the individual.
  • This threat response is often subconscious, especially in children.

  “What makes PDA unique and distinct...is that what tells the amygdala ‘you're in danger’ is often a subconscious perception of losses of autonomy, or if someone else is above that person.”
  — Casey Ehrlich ([04:33])

• Operational Definition ([14:02])

  • “PDA is a survival drive for autonomy and equality that consistently overrides other survival instincts like eating, sleeping, hygiene, safety and/or toileting.”

  — Casey Ehrlich ([14:02])

2. How PDA Presents in Children

• Everyday Scenarios ([07:46], [15:40])

  • Extreme avoidance of demands—even pleasurable ones—if the child doesn’t feel autonomy.
  • Better regulation and compliance when the child feels agency (e.g., quickly doing tasks when it’s their choice).
  • Need to feel “above” caregivers (e.g., climbing to high places, needing the last word, pushing to be first).
  • Burnout results when prolonged loss of autonomy accumulates, leading to severe functional decline (refusing to eat, speak, walk, etc.)

  “My son stopped eating and stopped speaking and he stopped walking.”
  — Casey Ehrlich ([15:40])

• Comparison with Traditional Parenting ([13:33])

  • Conventional strictness (timeouts, “knowing who's boss”) tends to escalate or entrench PDA-related issues.

  “I was never a gentle or attachment parent... That’s why we got to the violence.”
  — Casey Ehrlich ([13:33])

3. Distinguishing PDA from “Difficult” or “Oppositional” Kids

• Rooted in the Nervous System, Not Personality ([13:33], [38:04])

  • What looks like being “difficult” is actually a biological survival response to demands/threats, not manipulation or willful misbehavior.

  “With our PDA kids the threat response is what we’re interacting with—it’s not the child.”
  — Casey Ehrlich ([39:23])

• Burnout Signs ([19:19])

  • Functional regression: basic needs like eating, sleeping, toileting, hygiene are affected, often cyclically.
  • Extreme selectivity or regression even if the child seems “fine” elsewhere (school, with grandparents).
  • Unique to PDA: the drive for autonomy and equality overrides even basic physiological needs.

4. The Emotional Toll on Families

• Both Kristen and Casey share candid struggles with shame, resentment, grief, and guilt—believing at times they were “bad parents” or their children were purposefully difficult.
  • Powerful moment: Kristen tears up recalling how understanding PDA changed her relationship with her child ([26:44]).

5. PDA, Autism, and ADHD

• Diagnostic History & Overlaps ([29:17])
  • PDA was first described as related to autism, but many PDA kids/adults do not fit traditional ASD profiles.
  • Casey’s perspective: You can be ADHD and PDA without necessarily being autistic.

  “I think you can be ADHD and PDA. I don’t think you need to be autistic, but that’s not a popular opinion.”
  — Casey Ehrlich ([31:39])

6. Low-Demand Parenting & Accommodations

• Principles ([45:34], [47:36])

  • Start small: Limit demands that require compliance.
  • Wait for the child to initiate conversation.
  • Give autonomy over small choices (eating with hands, timing, how/when they do things).
  • Do (or help with) tasks that trigger resistance, even if they’re “age-appropriate.”
  • Allow and facilitate being “above” (let them climb, take the last word, physically be higher).

  “I just started cleaning his room every day... For him to enter into a clean space and not have a fight... changed so much.”
  — Kristen Carder ([48:43])

• No-Shoulds Approach ([22:29])

  • Casey advocates for giving parents their own autonomy; every child/family is different.
  • Let go of internalized pressure (“shoulds”) about the “right” way to parent.

• Viewing Meltdowns as Panic Attacks ([70:41])

  • During dysregulation, focus on regulation and repair, not teaching or discipline.
  • Radical acceptance: Meltdowns will happen during boundary setting; focus on co-regulation.
  • “There’s no strategy so your kid won’t have an activation... The work is radical acceptance.”

  — Casey Ehrlich ([64:55])

7. Strengths in PDA Kids

• When regulated, PDA children are often:
  • Charismatic, humorous, creative
  • Highly sensitive to “truth” and authenticity (“energetic truth radar”)
  • Connected to animals, strong sense of justice
  • Transformational thinkers

  “These kids are awesome...incredibly charismatic...very creative...social justice— even within their own families.”
  — Casey Ehrlich ([68:33])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the core of PDA:

  “PDA is a survival drive for autonomy and equality that consistently overrides other survival instincts...”
  — Casey Ehrlich ([14:02])

• On traditional parenting pitfalls:

  “I was never a gentle or attachment parent... That’s why we got to the violence.”
  — Casey Ehrlich ([13:33])

• On letting go of shame:

  "That's the part that I'm ashamed of...thinking that it was his fault...that he was doing it to me... I feel like he's trying to manipulate me. And he's six months old."
  — Kristen Carder ([17:26])

• On burnout and the toll of demands:

  "My son stopped eating and stopped speaking and he stopped walking."
  — Casey Ehrlich ([15:40])

• On shifting to low-demand parenting:

  “Every interaction is a choice to activate or accommodate. And it builds in the system... You can accommodate two out of three times and still make a huge amount of progress.”
  — Casey Ehrlich ([53:22])

• On a practical ‘parenting hack’:

  “Say yes as much as possible. Even in a no, find a yes.”
  — Kristen Carder ([76:00])

Timestamps for Crucial Segments

• [04:18] - Defining PDA and the survival drive for autonomy
• [07:46] - Examples of loss of autonomy and "feeling above"
• [13:33] - Impact of strict/traditional parenting on PDA
• [14:02] - Working research definition of PDA
• [19:19] - Burnout: Signs and impact on basic needs
• [22:29] - Should parents focus on the PDA lens if symptoms are milder?
• [29:17] - Is PDA only under the autism umbrella?
• [38:04], [39:23] - Is PDA just a child being difficult?
• [45:34], [47:36] - How to start low-demand parenting; actionable tips
• [53:22] - Progress as a parent: accommodate most of the time, not perfectly
• [57:23] - No “middle ground”; interactions either activate or accommodate
• [59:34] - Three goals of PDA-appropriate parenting
• [70:41] - Step-by-step recommendations for families beginning to accommodate

Actionable Takeaways

• Start with small, immediate, low-stress accommodations; prioritize relational safety over compliance training.
• View meltdowns as panic attacks/overload, not willful disobedience.
• When in doubt, increase child autonomy in small decisions (e.g., what to eat, when to shower, where to do homework, etc.).
• Lower the threshold for support: It’s okay to “do for” rather than insist they “do for themselves” during burnout.
• Seek moments to repair and connect, not correct, after emotional outbursts.
• Strengths-focus: Notice the positive, creative, and authentic qualities in your child when regulated.

Closing Notes

This episode offers a compassionate and research-informed lens through which to view highly oppositional or demand-avoidant behaviors in children. Both host and guest model vulnerability, honesty, and hope. For families struggling with “difficult” kids, Casey and Kristen provide new tools, systemic empathy, and above all, permission to prioritize connection, collaboration, and self-compassion.

Follow Dr. Casey Ehrlich at At Peace Parents on Instagram for more resources and upcoming conversations, including next week’s episode on PDA in adults.