Podcast Summary: "Why Even Your Own To-Dos Feel Like an Attack: The Explosive Reality of Adult PDA"

I Have ADHD Podcast | Episode 354 | November 25, 2025
Host: Kristen Carder
Guests: Casey Erlich (At Peace Parents), Kendall Damoshek (At Peace Parents)

Episode Theme & Purpose

This episode dives deeply into Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) in adults—how it manifests, overlaps with ADHD, and why even self-imposed tasks or to-dos can feel deeply threatening. Host Kristen Carder, together with parent coaches and PDA experts Casey Erlich and Kendall Damoshek, explore the nervous system dynamics behind PDA, its characteristics, and nuanced strategies for self-accommodation and compassion, especially for adults with ADHD who might also experience PDA traits.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Does PDA Look Like in Adults?

(03:00 – 05:00)

• Kendall Damoshek: PDA can manifest as procrastination, lack of access to basic needs, risk-taking, inability to address hygiene, or even an inability to use public restrooms.

  "If we think about it as a nervous system disability where threats to autonomy and threats to equality are building activation in our nervous systems, then you know, how that presents is going to be varied." (03:11)

2. The Five Characteristics of PDA

(04:38 – 11:07)
Casey and Kendall break down the five key characteristics:

1. Survival Drive for Autonomy

• Autonomy needs might override other survival instincts. If "freedom and choice" feel threatened, the nervous system gets triggered.

  "Is that what's activating my nervous system... cause I don't have freedom and choice?" (04:47)

2. Equalizing

• Can appear as effort to restore a sense of equality, either by acting out toward others or internalizing (self-harm, self-loathing).

  "An internalized PDA er, might harm oneself, destroy one's own things, or have internal self loathing." (05:33) – Casey

3. Masking

• PDA masking is a nervous system-driven, automatic safety response, not a learned, deliberate imitation of norms.

  "Instead of a fight flight, like at home or with a safe person, like a partner, it might be, I'm gonna go into freeze fawn or shut down. So you don't see the threat response." (06:43) – Casey
  "It's really like an automatic autonomic thing." (07:10) – Kendall

4. Need for Undivided Attention/Safety

• Intense need to co-regulate with safe nervous systems; strong overlap with body doubling in ADHD. Anecdotes shared about needing a companion on work trips for basic functioning.

  "...I needed somebody who wasn't going to have expectations around me or my time or my energy. And my dad is great at that." (09:10) – Kendall
  "The fact that I bring an emotional support person on every work trip, I can understand it..." (10:41) – Kristen

5. Fluctuating & Cumulative Nervous System Activation

• Functional “surface” periods punctuated by severe, sometimes incapacitating burnout; vigilance about personal thresholds is necessary.

  "...having to monitor that threshold like a diabetic would [their] insulin levels..." (11:39) – Casey

3. Personal Narratives: Burnout and Inaccessibility of Basic Needs

(11:52 – 17:21)

• Kendall shares a period of near-total incapacitation (unable to do housework, leave the house, or access basic needs) due to PDA burnout, unveiling deep shame and confusion at the time.
• Kristen shares a similar period after major life stressors, noting how “couch time” is common for ADHDers and reframing it in the light of PDA.

"My executive functioning is actually great. Like, I can map everything out. It's the doing that is the issue." (15:15) – Kendall

4. Experiencing and Managing Burnout: Different Lenses

(17:21 – 24:07)

• Distinguishing burnout characteristics for autistic vs. PDA nervous systems.
• Autistic burnout responds to “healthy” activities (yoga, sleep), while PDA burnout increases inaccessibility to even positive actions, sometimes activating further nervous system stress.

  "Our kids actually can't do [what's healthy]." (23:06) – Kristen
  "I could do all the research from the couch... and I couldn't access any of them." (24:07) – Kendall

5. Accessing Basic Needs: Toileting, Eating, Hygiene

(28:56 – 38:48)

• Casey and Kendall share that cumulative nervous system stress can drive control behaviors around eating (misdiagnosed as body image issues), sleep, elimination, and hygiene.
• Kendall describes years-long struggle with being unable to urinate in public, holding it for hours in pain, even with physical ability present.

  "And your body wouldn't let you?" (26:08 – 26:18) – Casey/Kendall

6. Kendall’s PDA Journey & Parenting Realizations

(39:43 – 44:29)

• As a parent, her search for answers for her highly demand-avoidant children led to personal discovery of PDA.
• The framework provided immense relief, replacing feelings of being a disappointment with acceptance and understanding.

  "...all of a sudden, I had a framework that was... I didn't have to feel like a disappointment." (45:34) – Kendall

7. Why Even Self-Imposed Demands Feel Threatening

(47:22 – 50:19)

• Kristen highlights the experience of resisting even self-imposed calendars/plans and asks Casey and Kendall to explain.
• Casey: PDA brain divides into rational ("I want to plan") and subconscious ("I didn't consent and now I'm reacting"). Consent only exists in the moment.

  "I don't want to create a schedule... I don't even want to listen to me..." (47:53) – Kristen
  "If you have a PDA tendency you have the subconscious part that's like, I didn't consent to that, and now I'm going to react to it." (47:53) – Casey

• Kendall describes real-life PDA accommodations, like requesting the highest hotel room floor to feel "above" as a means of creating safety.

  "It felt like suffocating... but if I'm on top, I can breathe." (50:19) – Kendall

8. Accommodations & Building the Window of Tolerance: The 4 S’s

(52:51 – 65:46)

• Casey and Kendall provide practical accommodation frameworks:
  • Safe Nervous System: Proactive connection with supportive people (emotional support, presence, body doubling, pets).
  • Screens: Streaming, podcasts, TV for regulation without guilt.
  • Sensory Experiences: Intense sensory inputs (ice water, spicy food, soft fabrics).
  • Special Interests/Dopamine/Novelty: Pursuits that bring pleasure and dopamine hits, like thrifting, reading, or even Real Housewives marathons.
• Lowering demands and self-compassion are critical: permission not to change out of day clothes if it feels overwhelming, accepting that unread books may signal dysregulation, and prioritizing regulation over “should-do”s.

"Lowering demands is one way that I accommodate myself." (59:32) – Kendall
"I would literally stand in front of the closet and then I would, like, go do something else. Then I would come back and stand in front of the closet." (60:20) – Kendall

9. Experimenting with the PDA Lens: Next Steps & Permission

(66:34 – 71:04)

• Kendall and Casey urge listeners to experiment gently, start small (e.g., skip pajamas if that’s helpful), and honor autonomy in adopting or discarding this lens.
• The PDA framework is not limited to autism—even ADHDers can benefit if it resonates.
• Casey explicitly offers “full permission” to the ADHD community to explore and adapt tools from the PDA lens.

  "If this is resonating for your lived experience, it's relevant to you. And it doesn't matter if you're diagnosed or not." (68:56) – Casey

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "ADHD is not a disorder of not knowing what to do. It's a disorder of knowing exactly what to do, but not being able to get yourself to do it." (18:46) – Kristen
• "The wanting to read it is the loss of autonomy. Because now I want to read it. No, no, no. But I want to read it. No." (57:32) – Kendall
• "Your position can be above, below, equal to, but it's the sense of autonomy and equality that matters." (42:02) – Casey
• "I needed my dad to come to my work trip with me... because I had this lens of I need someone to signal safety to me..." (09:10) – Kendall

Important Timestamps

• 03:00 – PDA presentations in adults
• 04:47 – 11:07 – The five characteristics of PDA explained
• 14:08 – 15:19 – Inaccessibility of even basic, mundane tasks
• 23:06 – 24:07 – Difference between autistic and PDA burnout
• 28:52 – 38:14 – Toileting, eating, hygiene struggles
• 39:43 – 44:29 – Kendall’s story of recognizing PDA in herself through parenting
• 47:22 – 50:19 – Internalized demands & resistance, even to self-imposed plans
• 52:51 – 65:46 – Practical accommodations, "4 S’s", everyday strategies
• 66:34 – 71:04 – Permission and advice for exploring the PDA lens

Practical Takeaways

• Accommodations First: Lower demands before trying to “fix” executive function (i.e., don’t force yourself to do even positive things if they feel overwhelming).
• Your Framework: Try different lenses (ADHD, autism, PDA, trauma) to see which helps most—there's no "correct" path to self-understanding.
• Regulation Over Productivity: It's valid to rest, seek sensory comfort, or ask for support—even if it looks trivial or is counter to broader advice.
• Permission to Explore: There is space for adults with ADHD to use the PDA lens and employ these strategies for self-compassion and self-acceptance.

For more PDA, ADHD, or neurodiversity-affirming tools, check the show notes for resources and contacts for At Peace Parents.

End Note:
This episode provides insight, validation, and practical tools for anyone questioning why even their self-imposed structures or good habits often feel threatening or unattainable. If you recognize yourself in these stories, you are not alone—self-understanding and gentler self-experimentation can offer profound relief.