Break Free From Sameness and Succeed

Summary

Podcast Summary: Ideas That Matter with Vusi Thembekwayo

Episode: Break Free From Sameness and Succeed
Date: August 5, 2025
Host: Vusi Thembekwayo
Guest: Nehemiah Davis (host/interviewer)
Special Contributions: Simi (listener, Nigeria), Prince Mazengela (listener, Malawi/India)

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Overview

In this vibrant and deeply personal episode, Vusi Thembekwayo joins Nehemiah Davis to unpack why breaking free from “sameness” is the critical catalyst for personal and business success. Touching on mindset, entrepreneurship, African opportunities, family, legacy, leadership, and global perspective, the conversation balances candid storytelling with strategic, actionable insight. The hosts field questions from listeners across continents, making this an episode rich in both practical takeaways and heartfelt reflection.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Listener Messages and Community Questions

• [00:05 – 02:47] Simi (Nigeria): Struggles with clarity and implementing principles, but appreciates Vusi’s focus on mindset and foundational success principles.
  • “You give these principles, which if you follow, you surely go [not] wrong… I keep listening to your podcast and I really do enjoy it.” (Simi, 01:45)
• [02:47 – 04:27] Prince Mazengela (Malawi/India): Asks how to balance business integrity with relationships, particularly when friends can’t pay back for goods but you want to preserve both the business and the relationship.

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Environment, Opportunity, and the Power of Place

The danger of staying in the wrong environment

• Vusi stresses the need to place yourself in an environment that nurtures ambition and wealth.
  • “If you don’t change your environment, your environment is going to change you.” (Vusi, 05:50)
  • “Some of you are like a rose in the Dubai desert—it don’t matter what you do, you won’t grow because the environment isn’t conducive to growth.” (Nehemiah, 07:02)

Cultural attitudes toward wealth

• In some communities, material success brings support, while in others, it breeds resentment.
  • “There’s some places where the minute you begin to do well... those people tend to want to drag you down because misery loves company.” (Vusi, 07:21)

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Business Opportunities in Africa: Reality vs Perception

Foundational sectors & transformative opportunity

• Africa’s key growth areas: agriculture, lending, infrastructure, electricity, and building the middle class.
  • “Africa still has very foundational things we’re solving… Just get the basic stuff to work and work reliably.” (Vusi, 11:06)
  • “When you are thinking about getting into Africa, you’ve got to be thinking about building real businesses for real people.” (Vusi, 13:57)

Changing the Diaspora’s perspective

• Vusi urges the African diaspora to experience and invest in Africa directly, breaking stereotypes of danger and backwardness.
  • “It should be a birthright—but a human responsibility—for every black person or every person of African descent to go to Africa.” (Vusi, 14:39)
  • Importance of traveling, seeing places like Rwanda, Egypt, Cape Town, and Namibia.
  • “If you took a little bit of money and invested it into the continent—game changing. Every dollar, if invested correctly, changes a life.” (Vusi, 15:00)

Practical advice:

• Just one trip a year to Africa can start demystifying the continent and build powerful connections.

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Encountering Greatness: The Mandela Experience

Mandela’s influence beyond freedom

• Vusi reflects on meeting Mandela, describing a presence that “changes the temperature of the room.”
• Mandela’s legal career before activism and his courage at the moment of possible execution:
  • “It is an idea for which I hope to live, but if necessary, it is an idea for which I am prepared to die.” (Mandela, as recounted by Vusi, 23:35)
• Lesson: Real character shows under life’s ultimate pressures; standing by your convictions is the true mark of leadership.

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Breaking Cycles and Building Legacy: Family, Adversity, and Growth

Personal stories of adversity

• Nehemiah shares about his father’s 32-year imprisonment and his determination to rewrite generational narratives.
  • “Especially you are one decision away from the life you want or the life you don’t want.” (Nehemiah, 29:03)
  • On raising his kids: “My intentions, people like, ‘yo, why you keep having all these kids?’ I actually got a plan... I want to have 40 or 50 grandkids 40 years from now.” (Nehemiah, 37:43)
• Vusi lost his father at 13 to violence and discusses the absence of male role models.

Responsibility versus victimhood

• “You only focus on what you can control and look to go make the best of it.” (Nehemiah, 38:00)
• “Your excuses are valid – and that’s the problem. If you verbalize or write down your excuse, you’re actually 100% right… and that’s the problem.” (Vusi, 38:25)

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The Power and Danger of Sameness

Identifying and escaping “sameness”

• Vusi’s core test for business clients is whether they’re stuck in repetitive cycles.
  • “I choose my clients by testing how much sameness they are suffering from.” (Vusi, 44:34)
  • “Sameness is like a drug. You inject it often enough, you don’t even know you’re addicted anymore.” (Vusi, 47:16)
• The “Inverse Possibilities” exercise: Have clients list possible futures, then invert them to radically expand what they’ll consider possible.
  • “People think possible only in their realm of what they can imagine. Inverting it forces your brain to go beyond.” (Vusi, 44:40)

Greatness as universal

• “Greatness is like blood. Every single human being walking the surface of the earth has blood pumping through them. We all have greatness in us… You have two jobs: find where you’re called to manifest, and then be ruthless in going after it.” (Vusi, 48:20)

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On Leadership: Choosing Potency Over Popularity

The necessity of being “unreasonable”

• Drawing on MLK’s legacy and Michael Jordan’s leadership, Vusi argues for difficult but growth-inducing leadership.
  • “My role as a leader is to be unreasonable. Otherwise, what am I leading?” (Vusi, 40:48)
  • “I would far rather you like the person I’m making you than like me as a person. Most of us in leadership make being liked more important than being potent.” (Vusi, 42:40)
  • Analysis of “The Last Dance”: “Even his team didn’t like [Jordan]… But they respected him. They achieved more because they were with him.” (Vusi, 49:42)

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Scaling Without Losing Culture

Integrating rapid growth and values

• On culture vs. scale: “If your culture can’t accommodate scale, it’s the wrong culture.” (Vusi, 51:11)
• Leaders must regularly check if everyone is “still on the same page” and know when to bring external energy to evolve the organization.
  • “Are we still on the same page, do you still see the world the way I see it? Here’s what I’m seeing, what do you think?” (Vusi, 54:45)

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The Road Ahead: Vusi’s Focus

Business and Books

• Vusi is raising a new fund for “real businesses in the real economy” in Africa—especially outside of pure software/tech.
• Upcoming book, Underdogs, chronicles overlooked and under-loved companies, examining what makes overlooked businesses powerful.
  • “We went around the world studying the world’s most overlooked, under-loved companies… In the book, we give you the secret formula for how to build an underdog business.” (Vusi, 56:08)
• Invitation to preorder: vositembekwayo.com (Waitlist: 18,000+)
• Hints at potential US ventures and a focus on cross-continental partnerships.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you don’t change your environment, your environment is going to change you.” (Vusi, 05:50)
• "You’re not going to grow there if your environment isn’t conducive.” (Nehemiah, 07:13)
• “It should be a birthright... for every person of African descent anywhere in the world to go to Africa.” (Vusi, 14:39)
• “Most people love the idea of who they think they are… until life happens.” (Vusi, 25:35)
• “Your excuses are valid. And that’s the problem.” (Vusi, 38:25)
• “Sameness is like a drug. You inject it often enough, you don’t even know you’re addicted anymore.” (Vusi, 47:16)
• “Greatness is like blood. Every single human being… has it.” (Vusi, 48:20)
• “My job’s to take you there. So we’re going to go. Greatness, man. Greatness. That’s the game.” (Vusi, 50:15)
• “If your culture can’t accommodate scale, it’s the wrong culture.” (Vusi, 51:11)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Listener Questions: 00:05 – 04:27
• The Importance of Environment: 05:50 – 08:13
• Opportunities & Myths about Africa: 11:06 – 19:42
• Mandela’s Legacy and Standing on Principle: 20:01 – 26:40
• Breaking Cycles in Family and Personal Growth: 29:03 – 38:00
• Excuses and Victimhood vs. Action: 38:22 – 39:41
• On Sameness, Growth, and Leadership: 44:21 – 50:15
• Scaling with Culture: 51:07 – 54:58
• Vusi’s Vision & Next Projects: 55:10 – End

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Conclusion

This episode masterfully blends strategy with soul, arguing that greatness requires rejecting comfort, questioning convention, and being brave enough to challenge sameness—in oneself, one’s environment, and business. Vusi and Nehemiah urge listeners to seize opportunity, connect with Africa, examine and expand their circles, lead with clarity, and ruthlessly pursue potential, all while maintaining values and laying the foundations for generational legacy.

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Follow Vusi Thembekwayo: @vusithembekwayo (Instagram, Twitter)
Underdogs Preorder: vositembekwayo.com

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“You have permission to be unreasonable… If you don’t fit in, great. They don’t like you, great. If you’re an outlier, great.”—Vusi Thembekwayo (42:35)

Transcript

[Nehemiah Davis]

Foreign.

[Simi]

This is Simi from Nigeria. I started listening to your podcast really this year, although I heard about it from my brother since, like, early last year. But, you know, anyways, I, I really love your, your content, the content of your podcast. Even though I found it initially hard to key into most of the. What you are talking about because it feels like you were talking to people who were already clear with what they, what they are doing or what they wanted to do or, you know, you were already passionate about, you know, a particular field or industry and we're looking to better themselves in certain industries. Whereas I'm still struggling to, you know, gain that clarity to know what exactly I'm going or what I want to do. And I also found that you always, you know, you always talk about what to do and not really how to go about doing it. Anyways, I decided to keep listening. I tried to listen, or I did actually decide to listen to your podcast, like from the start, from the beginning, the internal stories, like, maybe you might have said something about, you know, this initially and I missed it. So surely enough, I found your earlier content that you said something along the lines of, you know, being more about preparing the mind and creating a mindset. You know, guys, mindset is ready for the change, ready for success, than just, you know, preaching about how to do and stuff like that. You talked about, you know, getting the mindset ready. That's what you are really. Oh, that way you were really out to do preparing the mind. So, you know, I, I took that and I kept on listening to the podcast and now I just, you know, listen and take the principles as, as they come because that's what I feel I, I gained from listening to your podcast. You give these principles, that which, which, by, by which these things work. You know, this success in any field, they are looking in all these, you just give the principles which if you follow, you surely go wrong. So that's, that's why I keep listening to your podcast and I really do enjoy it. Anyways, not to talk too long. I just want to thank you for, you know, all you do. And also, I must say, out of all your accents, which you do, I particularly love the South African accent. So, yeah, that's just me. Anyways, thank you.

[Prince Mazengela]

Hello, family. My name is Prince Mazengela. I am from Malawi and I am currently in India. And I can't believe I'm recording this in the middle of the night, but I really felt like I should do this today. I really want to offer, like, an appreciation to you. Vousi and the team for the wisdom that you're sharing to us young people and you are helping us so much and we are learning a lot from your podcast. But on the other hand, I also have a question that I would like to know. How do you maintain your relationship with people and your business? Like for example, you are doing business and you have friends that would like to get goods from you, but you know to say that they cannot actually pay back and you don't want to hate their feelings, but at the same time you want to maintain your business so that it doesn't die. Should you just go on to be a bad person in the eyes for your business to survive? Or is there a good way how you can, how you can treat the issue to make sure to say that you maintain both your relationship with your family or friends and the business still strives and still grows. I would like to know that. Thank you very much.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

It's time to take your seat at the table. Find out how with vositembegwayo as we discuss ideas that matter. A catalyst for bold action.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Welcome to Circle of Greatness. I'm your host, Nehemiah Davis and I am so excited about today's episode. I'm about to bring before you one of the leading authorities in the world. I'm talking about consultant, I'm talking about entrepreneur. I'm talking about venture firm owner. I'm talking about best selling author and probably one of the most requested speakers in the world. And has one of the most polarizing social medias that's going to get you to think about leveling up, think about exiting your business and think about building the right way the first time. Without further ado. My God. Boosie. What's up, man? We here, man. Thank you for coming.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Finally.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah, finally we here. Hey, Kelly. Thank you to Kelly and y'.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

All.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Team coordinating and making it happen, man. So how you been, bro?

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

I mean, look, I should tell you, hang on to Kelly because she's persistent.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Hey, listen, we gotta be. If you don't be, that's. That's the only way we know, man. So. Yeah, but I've been. Well, you coming in, man? We got a. We got a great general friend. I mean, Lamar raved about just how amazing you are. Just a great businessman. How important is environment and the right connections.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Sure. I mean, you went right in there. So let's talk about environment first. My experience has been that if you don't change your environment, your environment is going to change you. And I think a lot of it's especially true today. Right. Because there's certain businesses that you can't make happen unless you're in the right environment. And so there's somebody watching this who's wondering why they're not succeeding, why they're not getting the results that they know they're capable of getting and they think it's them. Sometimes that's the case, but my experience has been that often it's also you in the wrong environment. So if you're not in an environment that nurtures growth, that identifies opportunity, that partners with people, then you're going to immediately hit ceilings around what you're able to do. And, you know, just if there's one thing you've got to do when it comes to being in the right environment, you have the right to be selfish.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Right. So when you feel called to do something, you feel called to greatness. You have to go to the place where that greatness is going to be able to make manifest. And not every place in the world can bring the best out of you.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah, that's. That's a fact. I tell people all the time. Some of you are like a rose in the Dubai desert. It don't matter what you do, you won't grow because the environment isn't conducive to growth.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

That's a fact.

[Nehemiah Davis]

You're not going to grow there.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

That's fact.

[Nehemiah Davis]

So I think I always tell people like your environment is going to make you or break. You know, it's critical.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

I can tell you my own personal experience, because I know this, because I've experienced it, is like you also have to be in an environment where wealth is allowed. You have to be in an environment where wealth is encouraged. And that's not true for every environment. You know, there's some places where the minute you begin to do well, the people who know you will start to act different around you. They'll start talking about you behind your back. And those places are also very dangerous because those people tend to want to drag you down because misery loves company.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Right.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

And the thing about growth, the thing about greatness, the thing about pursuing your purpose is you have to make sure you're in the space where people around you don't see you being crazy as an outlier. You know, in fact, where they encourage it.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Where they look at you wanting to do big things and they say that's not big enough. So your analogy about the roads in the Dubai desert, and I don't know how many people watching this, you know, I. I lived in Dubai. I Can tell you when that heat comes, circa July, it's over, man. It's, it's, it's, it's next level.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah, bro. For some reason, and I don't know why, this was over five, six years ago, I went to Dubai during Ramadan in July.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Why'd you do that?

[Nehemiah Davis]

I. I didn't know you would.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Let me guess, that's probably why the tickets were cheap. I was about to say, yo, that's a rookie era, man.

[Nehemiah Davis]

I had no clue. Like, I'm like, yo, it was blistering.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Yes, sir.

[Nehemiah Davis]

You could cook a steak on a pride ground in the minutes.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

That's a fact.

[Nehemiah Davis]

I couldn't believe it.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

You have to hop from building to building just in search of the aircon. And I think a lot of people don't understand that heat. It's like, it's like a swarm of bees attacking you at once. It's the only way I can explain it. It's not, it's not just that it's hot. It's that it's hot. It's humid and it assaults you. So you just step into the sun and you feel the heat everywhere. You inhale and your lungs heat up because that's all you're breathing, breathing in. It's just heat. That Dubai heat, man, that Middle Eastern heat in the middle of the year, let me tell you, that'll get your mother in law to love you.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Hey, listen to me, bro. It was crazy. I literally couldn't, I could not believe it, man. You. So you spoke at. Man, I went a few years ago. I spoke. Excuse me. I went with a few buddies and they had. I'm mad I missed the meeting with Robert Smith or whatever. I was with my brothers. Earn your leisure. And I didn't have my hotel badge because I got there late. So I missed that meeting, which bothers me. But I went to the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, this particular year. I know you spoke there. And one of the things I know about them, they're always talking about just the future. What's next, right? What do you see? And I want to. It's two parts. So I went to Davos, but prior to that we were in, we were in Ghana, right? And that's when they told me, yo, you need to come with me to, to Davos. I'm like, bet I'm there. And I met another gentleman and I forgot his name, but he owns like an oil rig in the middle of the ocean. They said he's like a billionaire. I got to get you his name

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

but based in Ghana.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Based in Ghana. Right. He's based in, he's in Nigeria.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Right.

[Nehemiah Davis]

And he said, listen man, you could bump your head and build a multimillion dollar business and do everything wrong in Africa. What do you believe is the next biggest thing in Africa right now? Because I know you're investing in emerging founders, you're investing in emerging businesses like AI is right now, probably for the foreseeable future. But what do you see 10 years from now that somebody need to really be looking into today?

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

That's a good question. So from an African perspective, you know, and it's difficult to explain it for people who haven't been, but Africa still has very foundational things that we're solving. So I was in Ghana, for instance, before I came here, and three weeks ago I was in Zimbabwe. And between Ghana and Zimbabwe I was in three other countries. So I get to see Africa from the vantage point of the globe. And Africa still has like very simple, you know, base issues we've got to solve. So we've got to solve agriculture at scale delivered affordably into the household.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

We've got to solve building a middle class and using financial services to drive middle class. So I think the lending rate here in the US is what, circa 4%? I think maybe you could borrow at the bank.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Depends.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

I mean there are countries in Africa where you're getting a corporate lending rate at 24%. By the time you're trying to build a home, you're getting it at 30%.

[Nehemiah Davis]

They're giving you APRs for credit cards.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Exactly.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah. That's crazy.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Exactly. Exactly. And that's, and by the way, that's on asset backed finance. Finance, right. So you're not, you're not even moving into, into personal loans. Yeah. So personal loans would be at users rates. Electricity. We still got to solve the electricity problem. I saw, I've got this because we're busy raising an energy fund at the moment. I've got this, this, this graph that I look at that shows percentage access to electricity by African countries. And it's, it's like the North African countries kind of have their act together. So Tunisia, Libya, Morocco, Egypt. South Africa, where I'm from, is an outlier. And then in the middle, particularly when you get to Central Africa, West Africa, in some of those countries you have access to electricity rates lower than 20%. The reason I'm mentioning this is because when I come here I hear people talking about very advanced industries, artificial intelligence, et cetera. And those are great. But where I'M from. It's just like, let's just get the basic stuff to work and work reliably. And so, you know, that's one of the changes we've had to make in the firm. We were like, well, where are the industries that are going to grow, going to grow reliably and are going to grow into the foreseeable future? That's why Trump just did a deal with Rwanda and Congo. Right. I mean, Congo is the wealthiest country in the world, bar none. When you consider the amount of minerals under the ground. They can mine the Congo for the next 300 years, and they still will not be able to take everything out of the. Out of the land of Congo. It is an unbelievably wealthy country, but what does it need? It needs road, rail, infrastructure, ports, banks, housing for the middle class, reliable electricity. So. So when you are thinking about getting into Africa, you've got to be thinking about building, as I like to call it, real businesses for real people. Whereas here, it's a lot of like, I'm going to write an API, plug it into something. We're going to help you double your revenues. Where I'm from, it's build something real, and the customers will come. But your friend was absolutely right. If you find the right industry, you'll sneeze and make money.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah. And he said. I'm like, bro. He like, I got an oil rig in the middle of Nigeria that's just printing. I'm like, bro. He's like, you need to come over here. And I'll be honest. I went, but they scared me. Like, it's so bad over here. Like, I'm like, yo. I'm like, let me get out of here. They make you seem like.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Like, let me.

[Nehemiah Davis]

They gonna kill you.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

You've said something about which I feel very passionately. That's why I spend so much of my time traveling the world, evangelizing Africa.

[Simi]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

So I'm going to say three things very quickly. First, it should be. It should be a birthright, but a human responsibility for every black person or every person of African descent anywhere in the world to go to Africa. And if people don't remember anything else, I say, this is really important, okay? Because what's been done in the world over the past 150 years is the black economy has been convinced that other black economies won't be like it. I was looking at the numbers the other day. The black economy in the US is $1.5 trillion. $1.5 trillion, I think, is the amount of Money that makes its way around 800 billion or 1.5 trillion, one of these two. But it's a lot of money. And in my mind, I'm going, where are all of these black people putting their money? Right? The assets you could buy and the value you could get for those assets if you took a little bit of that money and you were investing it into the continent game changing. And the difference is every dollar you invest in the continent invested correctly actually changes a life. Facts, right? So because unemployment rates are so high, you know, there are countries where the unemployment rates are so high that if you are opening a business in an establishment, the number of people who apply for that job is nowhere near what you would have imagined. Here you can have a job out for a couple of weeks, and if people don't want it, they don't want it. Right? So the point I make is you, you can make a real difference in Africa. I think that's the first point I want to make. The second point I want to make is this it. I took the opportunity to be on your podcast because I understand the. The influence that you have. And I think it's really important for black people in the United States to know that Africa is not a dangerous place where you can't come, you can't travel, and you can't. Now, listen, everywhere in the world, there are people who are going to take a chance. Okay? So. So what you want is to have reliable people, good partners that you can work with who will make sure that. That your interests are. Are taken care of. So first, travel the continent. Necessary. And, and the couple of places you've got to go, you got to go see the, the gorillas on the back. Gorillas in Rwanda.

[Nehemiah Davis]

I gotta go see. I mean, saw my homies do that.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

You, you, you just. Yeah. Lewis Hamilton just went.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

So you've got to go see the. You've got to go. Go to the gorillas. If you go north, you've obviously got to go to. To. To the pyramids in Egypt.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yep.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Right. You have to go to the Atlantic seaboard, Cape Town. You have to see the beauty of kind of where the Pacific and the Atlantic connects down in Cape Town and South Africa. The reason it's called the Cape of Good Hope is because, you know, when the Europeans which were traveling from Europe coming to the Americas, they stopped right in the middle in Cape Town. And so you catch a lot of history of the world.

[Nehemiah Davis]

It's like when I went there, I saw a heavily white Africans, they call it.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's a big part of it. Cape Town is a.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Is that the European piece that you're referencing?

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Yes. Cape Town also has a very complex history because it was the. It was the node into South Africa. Yeah. And. And. And in part, the node into many parts of southern Africa that Europeans kind of came through. Right. So the first Dutch settler, Jan van Ribek, settles in Cape Town, 1652. That's. That's before the Gettysburg Address here. It's before, you know, it's before the proclamation of independence here. So. So Cape Town has had a very long, complex history, but you've got to go to Cape Town. You got to go to Cape Town. You've got to go to Namibia. Beautiful, beautiful Namibia.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Say that part again.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Namibia.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Okay, I got you.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Donald Trump called it Nambia.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Okay.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

The Namibians were pissed.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Say anything.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

I mean, look, I want to come back. I don't want my visa canceled, so. We love you, Donald Trump. But there's this beautiful place in Namibia called Swakop Mund where you have the desert meeting the ocean. And I don't think you see anything like this anywhere else in the world. Baam, maybe the Middle east or Dubai. So all of these are places that you have to travel. And what I say to people is just do one trip a year. Just one trip a year. You know, today from Delta, you can kind of fly anywhere. Literally get on a flight.

[Nehemiah Davis]

I think it's here in South Africa.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

100%.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

I mean, I'm on that flight every six weeks. Right. And it's like, it's. Listen, if you and I do nothing else after this, we have to be intentional about connecting the continent to the diaspora and the diaspora to the continent. So I said to Lamar, I was like, dude, your event is amazing. Love it. Then he told me about what Rafael is doing in the uk. I said, rafael, I'm coming. And then I said to him, but I've got two conditions. First condition is you make the stay comfortable. Second condition is you have to come to my part of the world. And because if we can demystify it in our heads, man, it'll be a game changer.

[Nehemiah Davis]

We could get thousands of people over there.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

It'd be a game changer. Your business, the services that you offer, the number of small and medium sized businesses that need the help that you can offer. I said the same thing to Lamar. I was like, man, you're doing well, but you've got to be able to come and offer this in our part of the world.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah. Speaking of Africa. I got to ask you a question. So you met Nelson Mandela.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Yes.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Right. And you really share how that was one of the. He's one of the most influential leaders ever. True story. How did that moment shape your life? Like, what did you take from that to be the man you are today? Like, how was that experience? And I know you meet important people all the time, but that's like. It's a legend.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Yeah, like, that's a good point. So the first thing I would say is that, you know, maybe once in a generation, you meet. There are some people who can change the laws of physics. Mandela was like this. Like, if he walked into the room, the temperature dropped by 1 or 2 degrees. Even if you didn't see him, you could just feel it, like, oh, something just changed. Right. He carried something special about him. But the second thing is, you know, a lot of people talk about the amount of time he spent in prison, and I can recognize why that's something worth noting. Let me tell you what, for me is the part about his life that really was like, wow, is that. First he was a lawyer before he gets arrested. So before he gives off his life into the struggle for the liberation of black people in South Africa, he's a professional at a time, a date, and an age when there weren't a lot of professionals going around who were of color. Right. Because what the apartheid system was doing was it was implemented to keep as many black people from progressing into their full potential as possible. It was an intentional system. So just stuff like the education system, there was a stream of education for black people and a stream of education for, as they. You know, as they call them, non whites, and then a stream of education for white people. And Madiba broke through all of that, becomes a lawyer. He feels the calling. He joins the political party, the anc, and he begins to lead for the liberation of his people. Then he gets arrested. And I'll tell you an interesting story. So many years ago, I got to share the stage with a guy called George Bezos.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Is he related to Jeff?

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

He's not. He's not. But George was Nelson Mandela's lawyer. Okay, Right. So George tells me the story backstage. He says they've tried the case now, and it's almost certain Nelson Mandela's gonna get given the death penalty, because, again, that's a part of the story people don't know. Right. The apartheid government had the death penalty. We don't have it in South Africa today, but they did. And they would kill people. Right. And so for the crime that Madiba had committed the statute, said death penalty. And so they're sitting, you know, and he's sitting with him, and they're talking, and Madiba's like, I'm ready. I'm ready. And then they find him guilty, and they adjourn for sentencing. And in the period of adjourning for sentencing, as you know, before you get sentenced, you get asked, do you have anything last you want to say? And Madiba had written a speech about what he wanted to say.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Wow.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

So George says, takes the speech, and he reads it. And the speech says a few things, but it goes on to say, I have fought against black domination, and I fought against white domination. I have cherished the idea of a free and fair South Africa for which all races can live. He says in the speech, it is an idea for which I hope to live, but if necessary, it is an idea for which I am prepared to die. George Bezos tells the story. He says, when Mandela had written the speech, it said, it is an idea for which I hope to live. But, my Lord, speaking to the judge, it is an idea for which I am prepared to die. So George Bezos said, I asked him to add three words, but if needs be. And he said just adding those words changed the texture of the speech, because now he. He got to throw it back at the judge. Be like, yo, this is what I stand for. This is what I'm about, And I'm about it all the way. If you need to kill me, then so be it. Yeah, right? And I tell you why, for me, that stands out. Most people. Most people love the idea of who they think they are. Most people, you see it a lot with entrepreneurs, come up with an idea, a business, a deck. They start pitching it to one or two people, start trying to raise some money, start trying to do stuff until life happens. And when life happens, the person's true character shows. And for me, nothing symbol symbolizes life happening more than you standing there looking at a judge knowing full well he might sentence you to death. That's life happening on the ultimate. And to stand there and still stand on business, still stand on business. I'm like, nah, that for me, that's. So I hear the 27 years. And I don't want to be 19 years on the island of Robben Island. I've been. I've been to his prison cell. 19 years on the island, eight years, you know, on. On. On. On. On a prison on mainland in South Africa. I get the quarter century spent in a prison. Yeah, I get the Lost marriage. Because a lot of us also don't talk about that as a father, as a married man. Listen, wild horses couldn't drag me away from my kids.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

I don't know how you do it for 27 years.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yes. Wow.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

You know, you have a little girl growing up, and she grows up to be a little girl and then a teenager and then a full woman, and you have a wife and you have a boy, and the boy grows up to be a man. How do you miss all that? Right? And to stand on business and still not give up on your beliefs. Man, I don't know about you, but that, for me, that's the mark of the man's character. So what I hope to draw from that story is that when. Not if. Because none of us are immune from it. When life happens to me, I've got to have the ability to stand on business. Yeah. Everybody is a superhero until life happens.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah. And that's good. Speaking of that. Right. And that's. It's actually perfect for me. Speaking of that, in 2020, you talked about nearly going bankrupt, and I feel as though. Of course, it's not Nelson Mandela.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

It's not.

[Nehemiah Davis]

You know, My dad did 30. My dad did 32 years in prison. I didn't really want to go about your upbringing, because we all know this story of.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Did you just say your dad did 32 years in prison?

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah. For murdering somebody. Oh, yeah. Yep. And he died there about six years ago, probably.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Pause.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Rewind. What?

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah, my dad. I'm from West Philly. Like, I.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

You know. Look, you must remember, as a South African. As a South African, when I hear West Philly, all I think about is

[Nehemiah Davis]

West Philadelphia born and rain in the playground.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

True story.

[Nehemiah Davis]

So.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

True story.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Me and Will Smith got some commonalities. So Will and I went to the same high school. We both got kicked out of the high school. Will and I both got a street named after us in West Philly. I got my name first. You just got hit.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Is that true?

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah, that's true. For the community work we've now served over, like, probably over a million people through philanthropic efforts.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Incredible, man.

[Nehemiah Davis]

So the city named the street after me, the street that I grew up on.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Well done, bro.

[Nehemiah Davis]

I appreciate that. So, yeah, those are two little fun facts about Will and I. But. Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

So hold on. I know this is the interview the other way, but I'm a conversation, so forgive me.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Oh, we're good.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

How did you. What were the circumstances surrounding your dad murdering somebody?

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah. I don't know. My mom wouldn't quite tell me. My dad was like a gangster. Like, he's selling, you know, heroin, dope. Like he. My dad whole face was like. He was a. He's a chemist, you know, cooking up drugs. So every time I saw all his hands are all white, specked all over because the kitchen blew up that he was cooking up the dope in. So he says he didn't murder the person. You know, most people who do criminals things say they didn't do it. I don't know if it's true or not true, but he was a terrorist like from my under. Like, he, he was about business. Like he, he. He didn't care. So, you know, he got caught evidently and spent 30. He died in prison. And that's why I tell a lot of these young men and young women. I'm like, especially you are one decision away from the life you want or the life you don't want.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

My story, you will.

[Nehemiah Davis]

I'm preaching like 32 years in prison. It's hard for me. I got everything I want in my house. It's hard for me to stay in my house for two, three days straight. I don't know how anybody opting into years and years in prison, but how, how.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

So you don't have to answer this, but forgive me for asking. So how did you learn to be a man if dad wasn't around, Man,

[Nehemiah Davis]

I think I'm still learning. I grew up with a stepfather that didn't really do a good job, so I didn't really learn nothing from him. But I'll say my mom and grandma, you saw my mom, she just left. They took such good care of me, man. Where, like, I don't got that upbringing where, oh, we weren't eating, no heat in the house. Like, everything was good. Like, I was just being the knucklehead on purpose. But they took such good care of me that I didn't even have a void that I missed my father. So I am learning how to be a man now.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

That's incredible.

[Nehemiah Davis]

I got mentors now that I call. What about this? What about, like, I'm literally learn. I'm learning now. I'm learning how to be a father right now from trial and error, from seeing because I never had one that really that I could look up to that guided me.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

So have you got boys?

[Nehemiah Davis]

I got one son, he's two.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

So you are having to excuse me. So it's kind of like you. You're learning to be a dad 100 while being a dad, literally learning and

[Nehemiah Davis]

I've come to learn. So, you know, I told you before I, before I got married, my wife already had a daughter. She was four when I got in her life. We didn't get married for six years ago. You know, it was our anniversary. And one of the reasons why I never really saw a successful marriage, you know, a lot of where we from, they say, yo, go get me. You know, when you get married, that's when you really get the chicks, bro. I'm like, huh? So you tell me, I got like, it was just weird how to, you know, where I'm from, that's how they. So I say, yo, I'm not gonna rush and get in this and not do it the right way. So I wanted to wait until I felt like it was the right time. But what I've come to learn, I was raising my daughter, you know, my wife's daughter, which is my daughter. I don't think I did that great of a job. Like, I was like, dang, I didn't really do great. Now in retrospect, I realize I was teaching her, but she was learning a lot of these things. So she's buying her own, she's getting her a new apartment, she's about to move out, getting her a new bin. So she's a full time entrepreneur. Like she's. So she was actually paying attention, which I'm excited about.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

That's incredible.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah. But I say all that to say now that I got my three year old, my four year old, my five year old, my two months old, they're all different. I didn't know kids were different. Like you got to talk to them differently, you got to communicate. Like I could say one thing to one and it means nothing, another one that means. So I'm literally learning how to balance fatherhood, husband. Like, it's tough, but I'm figuring it out though.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

And, and do you, how do I ask this? Do you have a sense of any toxic traits you have because of what you might have lacked growing up or what you might have been overexposed to?

[Nehemiah Davis]

Toxic traits.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

So are you like overly aggressive? Are you controlling?

[Nehemiah Davis]

I'm tough, man. I'm tough to. I'm a straight shooter. You know what I mean? Like, I don't, it's not, not focused much on feelings as much. I'm focused a lot on the result, especially in business. I know you talked about sometimes you just gotta be cut.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

You gotta do what you gotta do.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah, you gotta do. But I also, I care too, but I'm trying to get a Get a result, whether with my family, whether with our business, whether I'm trying to move things forward, but toxic traits. I don't know. I mean, my wife will probably have to answer, like, I'm sure.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Yeah, I'm sure she might have something to say.

[Nehemiah Davis]

She said I'm rough, though. She said it's tough being with me. You know what I mean? In terms of. We demand a lot.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

So, last question on this. So your dad died in prison.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yep.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

In prison. Do you have a memory of ever seeing your dad? Not in prison.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Never. No memory. Zero memory.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

My God.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Only memory. I got to see him in the prison. We going to the vending machine, ordering the little stuff out of the vending machine. I have no memory. I do have a picture that my mom gave me of where we're hanging out, but I don't. I don't remember. Not none of it. And that's why I want to be present in my children's lives now.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Wow. Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

I lost my father when I was 13. He was murdered.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Wow.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Sorry to hear that. And it's a funny thing. I mean, it's. And 13 is such an interesting time, Right. Because it's kind of the time when a boy becomes a man.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

And so a lot of what you need to model is just not there. That's why I'm asking these questions, because then I'm like, so how did you learn what masculinity is? How did you learn how to draw boundaries? And it's stuff, you know, I don't know kind of where you sit on this, but I watch a lot of the contents on social media, and I'm just like, who came up with this?

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah. And my mom wouldn't let me do certain things. Right. Ain't no playing with dolls. Ain't no walking in my shoes. It's just certain stuff that I Like your mom. Yeah, it's just certain stuff. She's just not standing by like, yo, you not going to do this. Like, so I'm doing the same thing for my children. Certain things you can't do in our household.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Right.

[Nehemiah Davis]

I mean, based on what I learned

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

from her and you. You keep saying you're from West Philadelphia.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah, West Philly.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Is that to say that different parts of Philadelphia have different.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah. So you got West Philly, you got North Philly, you got South Philly, West, North, South.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Are they different in terms of how people experience them?

[Nehemiah Davis]

Are they all. They just different ghettos?

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Right.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Just in a different. You. You in a North ghetto. You in the south ghetto, you in the west, they all get. Now they getting better. But 20 years, you got good parts of West Philly. I lived in the good part, and I also lived in the bad part. You got good parts of South Philly. South Philly is downtown by the stadium. But then you got bad parts of South Philly. So every part got a good and got a bad.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

I'm almost done.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Oh, you're good. You're good.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

What is it like being black in America?

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah, that's a good question. What is it like being black in America? I mean, it's. Man, it. I think being black in America, I think it's. It's different for everybody based on where you're at, right? Where you're at Fair point, you know, Fair point with economics, where you. Like when you in the hood, in the trenches, it's rough, man. You trying to figure out how you gonna eat. You trying to figure out how you gonna keep your lights on. You trying to figure out. It's certain things. You trying to figure out. It's. I want to say it's tough because where we from, black, you don't have no mentor, like, for you, like, you were, like, perplexed, like, yo, you didn't have your dad. That crap is normal, you know? I mean, it ain't even. I can't name all the people I grew up with, most of them that had no dad, like, in their life, like, or. Or most households. Most households.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

No.

[Nehemiah Davis]

From where I grew up, you never have both parents in the house. You may don't have. You may have a dad, but there's not. Like, my wife, she haven't talked to her dad in 10 years. It's not even. That crap is normal where we from. It's not. No. So it's not. When you say dead in jail, like

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

that crap is normal, you understand the kind of intergenerational problems that that causes, right?

[Nehemiah Davis]

Sure, Yeah, a lot.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Because then you breed a generation that breeds a generation that thinks that's normal.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

And so.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah, so. And that's why, you know, you talked about something earlier about. You mentioned something, but at my lad, I remember we had him speak at an event. He talk about every now and again, there's one person that comes and changes generations, facts. My hopes is that's going to be me. That's. That's you, and that's good. And I'm trying to be less of a victim and be a victor. Here's how we grew up, but here's how y' all need to grow up. Like, my intentions, People like, yo, bro, why you keep having all these kids? I actually got a plan. So I'm like, okay, we may have six to seven kids. My goal was to have 40, 50 grandkids 40 years from now sitting at the table. And remember that I did this. I put insurance on y'.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

All.

[Nehemiah Davis]

I'm like,

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

you put a trust in place.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Like, I'm not really a great fan of Trump. Like, I don't. Like, I'm not big into politics. Right. But his kids can run a country.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Fact.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Ivanka could go run a country. I'm trying to be like, yo, my kids in position to go run something.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Yeah.

[Nehemiah Davis]

And that's my responsibility to help them go do that.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

That's so, so real. Thank you for that.

[Nehemiah Davis]

So that's what that is.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Real.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah. So I just tried not.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

I learned.

[Nehemiah Davis]

You going to complain about it or you going to do like, how long are you going to talk about. People are being. Keep talking about, oh, my. My dad locked. How long you. How long are you going to be a victim mentality. Everything wrong, everything going wrong. How long are you. What can you. I only focus on what I can control and. And look to go make the best of it.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

You know, what you said is something. I live by this philosophy.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Right.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Which is your excuses are valid.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

And that's the problem.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

The problem is that if you. If you verbalize or write down your excuse, you're actually 100. Right. You are not lying. Your experience is true. You actually had that experience. Life isn't fair. It's easier for somebody else. And all of those things are absolutely valid.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

And that's the problem. The problem is because they're valid, you take them to be a sentence on your life, and then you think, you know, the rest of your life is just. This is not the trajectory that you've got to follow. It's very difficult to. To go in spite of these things. I'm going to choose a different direction anyway.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

That's very hard. So.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Good on you for doing that, man. Appreciate it. Well done.

[Nehemiah Davis]

And I appreciate it. I just honestly don't. It's kind of like an entrepreneurship. I've been full time now, 15, 16 years, and they'd be like, what's the toughest part? Well, when I got fired from my 10th job, I worked at the private airport. I said, I'm mentally unemployable. So I've never looked at anything that I'm going through. Really. It's a tough time because it's a part of the process. You're going to go through some stuff that are going to challenge you. So I just want to, you know.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

You know, one of the things I think, and I don't know if you guys have a sense of it here in the U.S. right. But from an outsider's perspective, one of the things I observe about the US and set aside all the idiosyncrasies and, you know, the various different political sides, one of the things I observe about the US Is you guys. There is a culture here that it's okay to make it. I don't think. I'm not sure how many people are actually aware of that, but there are parts of the world where if you make it, you better make sure nobody knows. Right, Right. Because it's cloak and daggers coming for you.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

But here, if you make it, you stand up and go, hey, made it. Here's my template. And then people go, okay, cool. So how do we copy that? Now, it's not to say that society isn't perfect and there isn't jealousy, but it's like the level of permission for you to be successful is very high here.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Let me ask you that, though. So with that being said, I know in one of your videos you talked about being cut throat, being that how do you balance the two?

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

I mean, I. I've had to learn to be an a hole. Yeah. It's not my nature. I'm an empath by nature. Yeah. But I've also learned that my. My role as a leader is to be unreasonable. Otherwise, what am I leading? You know, it's like last night I drove past the residence where Martin Luther King stayed. Right. And I was thinking about his legacy. And I happened to share the stage with Ambassador Andrew Young last year. Unbelievable human being.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yep. I went to the mayor's ball with him. I was one of his guests.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Isn't he cool?

[Nehemiah Davis]

Amazing, right? I called him the HNIC legend right there.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

He's a legend.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Hnic.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

He's a legend.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Lamar had him up on a poster.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

That's right.

[Nehemiah Davis]

At the conference.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

I saw that. I saw that. And, you know, one of the things I love about him, and I don't know what your experience was, I was only backstage with him for, like, you know, a few minutes. But he has time for you. He looks you in the eye. He's actually listening to what you're saying. His brain is not wandering. But he said something which I thought was interesting when I met him. He said that. And it was at Bishop T.D. jakes. Conference last year in Texas, he said that MLK was ruthlessly unreasonable. He was like, this man wanted what he wanted the way he wanted it, and he pushed all of us to make it happen. And so when we lost it, he compromised. Right, right. And so it was like when we lost him. That's the spirit a lot of us kind of took on going into the rest of our lives. And I think especially for young people watching this, it's such an important lesson to learn. You have the permission to be unreasonable. So if you don't fit in, great. They don't like you, great. If you're an outlier, great.

[Nehemiah Davis]

I be feeling bad sometimes. I'm like, yeah, they ain't going to like this. They ain't going to be a fan of this.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

I say to my team, I say, I would far rather you like the person I'm making you than like me as a person.

[Nehemiah Davis]

That's good.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Because what a lot of us in leadership do is we make being liked more important than being potent. So I'm going to push you so hard that you're going to be the best at this. I want you to like that person more than I want you to like me.

[Nehemiah Davis]

That's good.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Which means I'm willing to sacrifice you unliking me so you can like what I'm doing through you. Right. And I can do it for the other person because I do it for me. I look at me in the mirror and I go, I'm going to push you to be the next, the next best version of yourself. And this version of you is going to hate what I'm going to do to this version of you for that version of you to happen. Okay, great. Let's go.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Wow.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

And that push, man, it's. Listen, we live in the best time it's ever been to be human beings. Never in the history of our species has the world had the resources, technology, money, connections we have today. It's up to us. Yeah. It's only you and the people who are not doing anything with that opportunity who are being lazy. Those people are in such big number that those of us who are outliers have a lot of job to do. So I'm like, let's just get to it.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah, that's fine. I got a question, too. That was good, that kind of lead in there. So with you, man, you're. You're. You're talking CEOs, you're looking at companies to invest in. You know, given your experience advising 500 Fortune 500s and emerging, emerging African Founders.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Yeah.

[Nehemiah Davis]

What is the strategic questions that you're asking them to unlock their next level?

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

That's a good question. It's a good question. So let me tell you how I choose my clients.

[Nehemiah Davis]

I like that. Choose your clients.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

I choose my clients by. By testing how much sameness they are suffering from.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Sameness.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Same same thing over and over, same year, same results, same. Now, what's crazy is sameness creeps in. So you can achieve a 5 to 10% growth but still be the same, right? Yeah, it's. And it's incremental. So when I look at the clients I want to work with, I go, do they suffer from sameness? Because my job is to be the shock factor. Right. So your question was, you know, what am I advising them to do? What are the conversations? The first conversation, the first very big conversation is we have what we call an inverse possibilities conversation. So write down on a piece of paper for me all the things you think might happen. And we go through that exercise, and then I say, now let's invert that. And the reason I want us to invert that is because people think possible insofar as their realm of what they can imagine. Inverting that forces your brain to go. So he says, here's a good example. Say, you know, your YouTube channel is at 250,000 followers. I go write down what's possible. You go, we might double that. I go, great, let's invert that. You know, let's make that 12x. What does a 12x look like? Yeah, okay. Now, it's not a goal, but it's a think exercise. It's like, how do we think about it? So that's the first thing. The second thing is a big part of my job is to communicate to my clients not where they are, but where the world is going. You know this because you work with entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs are like this, right? So they have their business, their problem, their solution, their industry. That's what they know, that's what they do. And so my job is to go, let's do this a little bit. What else is out there? Now, as entrepreneurs, you and I, we naturally do this naturally. Like, you'll naturally follow a certain channel, social media, or read a certain kind of book, or be involved in a certain kind of conversation. But that's how you're wired. What a lot of us entrepreneurs don't get is that's not actually how most people are wired. Most people shop at the same grocery store, they go to the same gym, they live in the same suburbs. They're friends with the same people they went to school with. So that test of sameness for them is not a curse. It's who they are. So when you come into their lives and you go, yo, the reason you're not achieving these results is because you're addicted to sameness.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Wow.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

And sameness is like a drug. You inject it often enough, you don't even know you're addicted to it anymore. So what happens is when the opportunity for the outlier comes, you think the opportunity is too scary, and you don't want to take the risk. What you don't get is you're now being addicted to the sameness. Rather than going, how do I push for boundaries for next? So a big part of my job is to be the guy standing behind them, kicking them in the backside, going, you're not doing enough. You're not working hard enough. You're not pushing hard enough. You're not taking enough risks. You're not doing this enough. You're not seeing the world for what's out there. Let me just say one last thing. Every single person in the world today, shaping the world today, is not a celestial being. They didn't fall from the heavens. They're a human being. They were born and they will die. Once you understand that every single person shaping the world is a person just like you. The competitive nature in me goes, well, what's so special about Sam Altman?

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Okay. He can write a bit of code. Shit, I'll learn some code.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Shit, I might even steal his code. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm that kind of guy. And so I think that the push. And that's why I love the name of your show, right? Greatness. It's like. It's like all of us have it. This is. This is. This is so good. All of us have it. Greatness is like blood. Every single human being walking the surface of the earth has blood pumping through them. We all have greatness in us. It manifests differently. It looks different and it's called on in different spaces, but all of us have it. You have two jobs. First is to find where you're called to manifest it. And second, once you've found it, is to be unbelievably ruthless in how you go after it.

[Nehemiah Davis]

That's good. So the folks we study, you won't be like, though.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

I mean, listen, listen.

[Nehemiah Davis]

I feel like you're gonna lose a lot of people.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Let me tell.

[Nehemiah Davis]

I'll be watching some people because I'm demanding Greatness. They like. Yeah, I'm good.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Have you watched Save the Last Dance?

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yes.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Michael Jordan.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Michael Jordan.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Michael Jordan.

[Nehemiah Davis]

The.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

The.

[Nehemiah Davis]

I haven't watched it in years.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Oh, man, you've. I mean, I was watching it again the other day.

[Nehemiah Davis]

I was just rewatching it with Mike. Oh, yeah, I saw that. Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Michael Jackson. So Mike. Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Thinking about, say, the Last Dance. Like, the dance.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

No, no, no, no. Michael Jordan. I said Michael Jackson. Michael Jordan. Right. The. The documentary about him on Netflix. Right. One of the things that stuck out at me is, for all intents and purpose, this guy was an.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Like, if you actually watch the thing, you're like, this guy.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

He was an. So people didn't like him. Even his team members didn't like him. But you know what? They respected him. And they are the first to say they achieved more because they were with him. Yeah. Than they would have done when he wasn't there.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

And so what does Scottie Pippen remember? Yeah, he remembers the championship ring.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

So your point is? Yeah. You know, people are going to leave you. Sure. But around me, you're going to get that championship ring.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

My job's to take you there. So we're going to go.

[Nehemiah Davis]

That's good.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Greatness, man. Greatness. I'm telling you, greatness. That's the game.

[Nehemiah Davis]

All right, so I got to ask. Right? And it's so crazy, like, as we're. It's like you're unfolding answers to questions I already have in the future or whatever. But I got to ask this. So in your book, the Magna Cart of Exponentiality, right?

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Yes.

[Nehemiah Davis]

And you got a new book, Underdogs, coming out in a few months.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

That's a biggie.

[Nehemiah Davis]

I can't wait for that one. Yeah, man, that's gonna be crazy.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Five years of work.

[Nehemiah Davis]

When you come back, we'll have you back and we'll push it out there for sure. Thank you. How do you balance? So we're talking about. We just talked about mj, about being the best grinding, but how we balance rapid scale while maintaining the value and culture of the organization. Because I'm trying to drive, drive, drive, drive, drive. But sometimes you only about money. You only care about money. Well, I can't pay y', all, and we can't pay bills without making money.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

It's a good question.

[Nehemiah Davis]

So how are you maintaining both of these simultaneously?

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

I. I don't think you should be seeing them as competing with each other. Yeah, I think making. Making. So let me put it to you. This way you guys have that drink, Kool Aid, right?

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

And I think it's like, it's like a concentrate. You put some water on it. Right. And sugar. Yeah, yeah, and sugar. Right, right.

[Nehemiah Davis]

I mean, sugar.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

I only remember it because I saw it on Friday, the movie. And you know, I think Ice Cube was looking for some Kool Aid or something and, and Big Worm came out on the things. He ain't got no sugar or something like this. Right. So. But if you think about it, think about it this way. If I want to make a glass of Kool Aid this big or that big, the amount of concentrate would change, so would the water. So with the sugar, culture and scale are kind of the same things. So what, what I'm, what I'm saying is this. You have to see building and bringing the culture of your organization and the rapid scale you're trying to achieve as the same thing and not one against the other. People will only say to you, you're chasing scale over culture. If they think your culture can't accommodate scale, if it can't, it's the wrong culture. And, and the reason that's important is because it's like. Sitting somewhere in the US right now is your competitor.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

And they've got your logo on, on their dashboard. They've been to your website, they've studied everything you're doing and they're trying to figure out how they're going to outdo you.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

So scale, this is so important. Scale is the most important line of defense you have. And I always think about business in sports terms. Offense. Defense. Right. Defense is what are the non negotiables in the business. Everything else must be offense. And culture has to be a part of offense because the culture of an organization evolves. The culture of what it took to build a Fast growing company 20 years ago isn't what it takes now. And so a leader's job is to be able to intuit what the right culture is that's going to suit that moment in time, and then ruthlessly make sure that they pursue it. It just came out today, I don't know if you guys saw this, that Mark Zuckerberg is paying like a ton of money for a couple of developers to come and join from OpenAI. Why? Like he's Zuck. You're trying to tell me he can't find other developers. What is he injecting into meta? It's the culture that he needs for the level of scale that he needs.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

And he's well aware that internally he doesn't have the resourcing for that. Yeah. So he's going to go outside and pay a ton of money to people to do it. And I think that's important for entrepreneurs to understand. You have to make culture and scale one and the same things. So we're going to scale these things together. And if one lags behind, then your job is to go and find it and make sure that you make these two things coexist. That's why I'm sure you've seen it. Come on, guys. Like, you've seen the number of times people start in a business and a relationship or a partnership, and then over time the partnership fades and one person is like, I just wanted to go somewhere the other person didn't want to go. That's what I mean by like this culture thing. Right. So. And it's the same in a marriage. You've seen people say, you know, we were married 20 years. What happened? We grew apart. It's exactly the same idea that there's a point you get to where the thing we, we find the most value in, the thing that we think makes us who we are changes. So the gig is always as a leader to make sure that there's consistency and congruency. Are you still going where I'm going as we still head in the right direction. So when you're checking in with your leaders, especially entrepreneurs watching this, when you're checking in with your leaders, it's like, are we still on the same page? Do you still see the world the way that I see it? Here's what I'm seeing. What do you think? And, and the minute somebody has checked out, you can tell.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

That just won't bring the energy to the conversations. And then you know that you need to start thinking about how do you bring in an external force to drive that culture?

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah. What's next for you?

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

It's a good question. Some of the things I, I can't disclose publicly, but we're, we're busy raising capital now for our next fund, which we're very excited by.

[Nehemiah Davis]

What are the main companies you're looking to invest in? So some of our audience may be building that or, you know, let us know. Yeah, I know a lot of African companies emerging, it sounds like, that are solving real life problems.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

100%. Yeah, 100%. So. So the, the current fund that we're raising is, you know, real businesses in the real economy. Yeah. And so we're looking for entrepreneurs who are building real businesses in the real economy. So these are not Necessarily businesses in the software technology space, but businesses in the kind of industries I mentioned earlier when we started. So we're very excited by that. The book comes out, Underdogs. It's already ready. We've been going kind of up and

[Nehemiah Davis]

down the pre order now.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Yeah. Vositambuguaya.com.

[Nehemiah Davis]

you heard that? Go pre order. Y' all go pre order right now.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

We have a wait list of 18,000.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Let's go. Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

So, you know, we drive it.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Let's go.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

So I'm going to make sure I get you a signed copy.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah, please do. Underdogs is like an ad in this episode.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Yeah, Underdogs is like, I'm loving what that book is going to be because here's what I actually did in that book. My co author and I, who also happens to be my business partner. So we went around the world studying the world's most overlooked under loved companies.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Overlooked under love. Wow.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Yeah. Because a lot of literature about companies is brands we know.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Stuff we know.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

But then, but then we're like, there are all these companies that people overlook. Right. And. And the minute you know who these companies are, you're like, oh, of course they do that. Or of course they do that. Or of course they do that. Right. And. And so we've been working on. And then what we did is we studied these companies and we tried to find the DNA that makes these companies tick.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yeah.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

And in the book, we basically give you the secret formula for how to build an underdog business. So. So the Underdogs book comes out in the next few months.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Let's go.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

I'm on tour when I leave here, so I'm going to be going all over the place and speaking, we're looking at setting up a business here in the US we have an office in, in. In Delaware, which we use for some capital raising, but looks like there might be opportunities for us to do some actual on the ground stuff.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Let's go.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

So I'm. I'm always excited to see who I can work with, who I can partner with.

[Nehemiah Davis]

We here to support what kind of things we can do, whatever we could do. I'm excited just about your vision and just everything you got going on, man.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

Let's do it.

[Nehemiah Davis]

I just want to say thank you for coming on.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

I am ready when you are ready.

[Nehemiah Davis]

So, guys, with that being said, man, we're going to do a part two in the future, man. Underdogs is on the way. I want you to go pre order it. If you're looking to put your money in the right place. I want you to look into the fun, y', all and look into Africa. Like, maybe we're going to do a trip. We're going to maybe bring thousands of people over to Africa and we're going to create a moment and we're going to create something amazing. So, y', all, thank you once again for tuning in. Make sure you tap into vousi. Follow him on all social media. Let them know your socials and everything,

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

please, at vousy Timberwire. Can't miss it.

[Nehemiah Davis]

Yes, just type in V, U, S I. It'll come up because I know you can't spell his last name, so just type that in. And that's probably why I haven't pronounced the last name right.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

You did well, though. You said it.

[Nehemiah Davis]

I want to drop it. I didn't want to drop it. So, guys, thank you all so much for tuning in. We'll see you on the next show. Peace.

[Vusi Thembekwayo]

This podcast was proudly brought to you by my growth fund in partnership with Sound and Sounds Media.