Podcast Summary: Identity/Crisis

“Antizionism and the American Left’s Jewish Problem — with Shaul Kelner”

Host: Yehuda Kurtzer | Guest: Shaul Kelner
Release Date: January 27, 2026 | Podcast by: Shalom Hartman Institute

Overview

This episode explores the rapid normalization of anti-Zionism on the American left, the impact of those shifts on Jewish communal life, and how Jews and Jewish organizations should understand and respond to anti-Zionist movements—both intellectually and emotionally. Host Yehuda Kurtzer speaks with Professor Shaul Kelner about his recent essay in Sources Journal, where Kelner argues for fighting anti-Zionism as a distinct political movement rather than solely as a form of antisemitism. Together, they analyze the historical, sociological, and linguistic dynamics shaping anti-Zionism today, particularly in academia and Jewish political discourse.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Changing Contexts for Anti-Zionism (00:46–08:02)

• Kurtzer recounts a 2022 incident where a branding firm refused business with Hartman due to links with Israel, illustrating how much public discourse—and litmus testing around Zionism—has changed since then.
• Meaning and consequence of anti-Zionist actions or policies for Jewish organizations have become more fraught as the leftward Overton window dramatically shifted.
• Prevailing strategies:
  • "Negotiative": Engage, analyze, and differentiate among types of anti-Zionism, seeking coexistence where possible.
  • "Confrontational": Define and oppose anti-Zionism as inherently problematic and exclusionary.

2. What Is Anti-Zionism? Hate, Politics, and (Not) Psychologizing (08:02–11:13)

• Shaul Kelner clarifies his approach:

  “I don’t think about it as a hate movement. It’s a politics — politics, and that’s it… Anti-Zionism, like antisemitism, is essentially a politics about Jews that has certain assumptions that Jews don’t have and shouldn’t have the same rights as others.” — Kelner [08:09]

• Kelner rejects psychologizing anti-Zionism as “hate,” instead framing it as a set of political ideologies and practices targeting Jews’ collective rights.
• The American context has allowed anti-Zionism to be understood and legitimized as not inherently anti-Jewish, creating new forms of marginalization.

3. Emotion, Double Standards, and the Academy (11:13–15:11)

• Kelner admits emotional frustration with the double standard and denialism in academic and leftist spaces—where anti-Zionist rhetoric and activism get a pass that would be unthinkable for other marginalized groups.
• The academic sector, especially in social sciences, has trended toward greater ideological monoculture, narrowing intellectual diversity around Israel/Zionism.

4. Anti-Zionism in the Academy: Political & Social Roots (15:11–18:13)

• Academia’s ideological echo chamber: Each decade filters out dissenting voices, compounding ideological homogeneity.
• Activist mobilization in universities: Long-term organizing laid groundwork for recent anti-Zionist campus protests—other causes like Iran receive less attention simply due to a lack of such mobilization.

5. Distinguishing “Pro-Palestinian” from “Anti-Zionist” Movements (17:06–19:09)

• Kurtzer asks how to parse advocacy for Palestinian rights from anti-Zionism.
• Kelner: The framing is key; an activist, not semantic, choice was made to define the cause as “anti-Zionist,” which focuses on denying Jewish self-determination rather than centering Palestinian rights.
• A movement that truly recognizes Jews’ right to self-determination could advocate Palestinian rights without devolving into anti-Jewish politics.

6. The Power of Language: Slogans & Movement Culture (19:09–22:13)

• Free Free Palestine as a “movement slogan” whose meaning is contextually defined—sometimes weaponized, given its frequent appearance in violent or antisemitic actions.

• “When you murder people and you’re shouting that, I see that as an indicator that the movement has successfully built a movement culture…” — Kelner [21:00]

7. Is Academia the Engine of Anti-Zionism? (22:13–26:24)

• Contrary to popular belief, the mass movement is not primarily produced by faculty/ideas but by lived praxis—behavior and participation.
• The intellectual class grants legitimacy, but “lived anti-Zionism” outpaces the theories and texts in shaping behaviors and norms:

• “…Most of the students who are in these encampments have not read Edward Said… Their anti-Zionism is a lived anti-Zionism.” — Kelner [25:50]

8. Language & Historical Frame: Learning from Soviet Anti-Zionism (27:25–31:51)

• Soviet anti-Zionism: Used “anti-Zionism” as a political cover for marginalizing Jews, echoing leftist ideological justifications.
• In hindsight, labeling it “antisemitism” ignored how anti-Zionism operated as a distinct, systematized form of anti-Jewish politics—understanding this history would help American Jews respond more effectively.

9. Hyphens, Definitions, and Naming the Problem (31:51–34:59)

• Kelner proposes dropping the hyphen—“antizionism”—as with "antisemitism" to mark it as its own phenomenon, not simply the inverse of something good:

• “If we’re going to talk about antisemitism this way, why aren’t we talking about antizionism in this way?” — Kelner [34:16]

• The focus should be on the behavior, not merely the ideas or declared enemies.

10. Jewish Participation in Anti-Zionist Movements—A Dilemma (35:00–40:19)

• Many Jews remain intertwined in leftist and anti-Zionist activism, believing they are acting from moral conviction, not enacting anti-Jewish exclusion.
• Kelner asserts that participation of Jews lends cover and legitimacy to anti-Zionist movements—and that serious moral reckoning is needed given anti-Zionism’s real-world effects on Jewish communal life:

• “Any system of oppression… will create incentives for members of the marginalized group to participate in their own oppression. And I think that this is no different.” — Kelner [38:43]

11. Complexities of Political Tribalism & Weaponization (41:17–45:20)

• Recent controversies (e.g., the Kamala Harris/Josh Shapiro story) illustrate dangers in over-simplifying anti-Zionism/antisemitism as a binary political tool.
• Growing polarization means Jews' political status is becoming a matter of party alignment; former bipartisan consensus is being eroded, with risks attendant to being seen as "belonging" to one party.

12. Educational Prescription: Teach the Full History of Anti-Jewish Movements (45:20–47:33)

• Kelner’s call to action:
  • Teach about anti-Jewish politics on both right and left, not just antisemitism.
  • The lack of knowledge about political anti-Zionism and its history (e.g., in Soviet contexts) leads to confusion and misrecognition of the threat when it emerges in leftist forms.
  • Needs broadened Jewish education:

    “If we’re only teaching that anti-Jewish politics has a home on the right, it creates an ignorance… when young Jews are experiencing an anti-Jewish politics that traces its lineage to the left, they don’t recognize it.” — Kelner [46:09]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Defining the Challenge:

  "The Overton window has shifted and anti-Zionists have basically enjoyed having Jews engaged in the movement and running blockage." — Kelner [37:21]

• On Political Risks:

  "The extremes in both political parties were largely held in check. Now you’re facing populists on the right, democratic socialists on the left; anti-Semites in the populist camp, anti-Zionists in the democratic socialist camp." — Kelner [44:04]

• On Educational Response:

  "There were two major anti Jewish movements in the 20th century... One was political antisemitism... the other was political anti Zionism which was embraced by the Soviet government... If we’re only teaching that anti Jewish politics has a home on the right, it creates an ignorance..." — Kelner [45:51]

• On Jewish Agency:

  "The major work that needs to be done... is for anti Zionist Jews to seriously grapple with the history of anti Zionism, the history of persecution of Jews in the name of anti Zionism, the practices happening against Jews today in the name of anti Zionism." — Kelner [40:20]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:46]: Host’s introduction; the shifting landscape.
• [08:02]: Kelner’s definition of anti-Zionism as politics, not hate.
• [13:36]: Early warning to Kelner about entering anthropology due to Israel/Palestine hostilities.
• [18:13]: Kelner on activist choice to frame movements as “anti-Zionist.”
• [21:00]: Slogan "Free Free Palestine" as indicator of movement culture.
• [26:24]: “Lived anti-Zionism” in campus encampments.
• [31:51]: Soviet anti-Zionism historical analysis.
• [34:59]: The call for Jews to stop debating whether anti-Zionism is antisemitism.
• [37:21]: Jews lending cover to anti-Zionist movements.
• [45:51]: Educational strategy prescription for Jewish institutions.

Final Takeaways

This episode offers a nuanced, sociology-informed look at anti-Zionism as a distinct force in contemporary American political life. Kelner and Kurtzer agree that Jewish communities need sharper, historically grounded tools and language to describe, analyze, and respond to exclusion and marginalization—moving beyond old debates about antisemitism and accepting the challenge posed by new, often left-aligned forms of anti-Jewish politics. Ultimately, they urge clarity, education, and the willingness to fight both right- and left-based anti-Jewish movements on their own terms.