Podcast Summary: Identity/Crisis

Episode: Fighting Holocaust Fatigue — with Anita Friedman

Host: Yehuda Kurtzer
Guest: Dr. Anita Friedman
Date: October 6, 2025
Podcast: Shalom Hartman Institute

Overview

This episode explores the concept of “Holocaust fatigue”—both as a reflection of generational memory and as a challenge for Jewish and universal education in today’s world. Yehuda Kurtzer sits down with Dr. Anita Friedman, a renowned Holocaust education leader and executive producer of the new documentary Among Neighbors, to discuss the stakes of Holocaust memory, how education can move forward, and the dangers of both forgetting and political suppression. The conversation weaves in personal family history, policy insight, and reflections on contemporary antisemitism, culminating in potent questions about how communities—Jewish and otherwise—should grapple with the Shoah as living memory fades.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power and Purpose of Holocaust Storytelling

• Schindler’s List as a Cultural Turning Point

  • Yehuda begins with a personal reflection on seeing Schindler's List as a high schooler and its significance as a vehicle for Holocaust memory.
  • He explores how art—film, poetry, fiction—can elevate Holocaust stories’ relatability and authenticity, even when not strictly factual.
  • Quote:

    "Any of the tools we can use, poetry, fiction, film, testimonial to unlock both the story of the Shoah for future generations and the memory of the Shoah itself should be considered on equal footing." — Yehuda Kurtzer (06:00)

• Memory vs. Fatigue

  • Introduction to "Holocaust fatigue"—the oversaturation of Holocaust education that paradoxically leads to trivialization or apathy.
  • The danger that a deluge of stories can blur or cheapen the reality for new generations.

2. Personal and Generational Language of Survivorship

• Survivor Identity as a Unique 'Language'

  • Anita shares her experience growing up in a survivor family and community, describing the intangible sensitivities and life lessons passed down.

  • Quote:

    "I feel that there’s a certain sensitivity that you have when you come from a survivor family... There are some complications also coming from a survivor family." — Anita Friedman (11:33)

  • Survivors focused on life, resilience, and rebuilding, not hatred or revenge.

3. The Failures and Future of Holocaust Education

• Lack of Effective Holocaust Curriculum

  • Despite the proliferation of museums, films, and mandates, most young people in the U.S. know little about the Holocaust.
  • Even when taught, it rarely translates into deeper moral or antisemitism awareness beyond platitudes.

• Where Did Education Go Wrong?

  • Anita asserts that Holocaust education isn't systematically integrated into school curricula.

  • Quote:

    "Books and literature and political meetings and committees and councils and programs is not going to change how people view Jews unless we change what we teach children. That we haven’t done." — Anita Friedman (15:40)

  • Mandates are insufficient: Only 26% of California districts even touch on teaching the Holocaust despite requirements (17:52).

  • Teachers don’t feel competent or resourced to teach the subject; oversubscribed teacher training demonstrates pent-up demand for guidance and content.

4. Rethinking How We Teach

• From 'Sad Stories' to Contextual Narratives

  • Holocaust lessons must be reframed to speak not just of loss, but of Jewish identity, history, and the structure of antisemitism.

  • Avoid both glorification and demonization—embrace complexity.

  • Quote:

    "It has to be taught as a way to teach about who are the Jews, what do we stand for, what is the arc of Jewish history, what does contemporary antisemitism look like..." — Anita Friedman (15:08)

5. Among Neighbors: Artistic Choices and Universal Resonance

• Making the Documentary Film Engaging

  • Among Neighbors uses magical realism and global animation teams to create a compelling, non-standard narrative—a love story, mystery, and adventure.

  • Aim: To resonate equally with Jewish and non-Jewish audiences, and become a practical resource for schools worldwide.

  • Quote:

    "We wanted to make a film that was a love story, that was a mystery, that was an adventure... We wanted it to be different and engaging." — Anita Friedman (24:29)

• Truth without Diminishing Complexity

  • Deliberate effort not to demonize or deify Poles, but to show nuanced choices and complicity during and after the war.

6. Revisiting the Sinai/Auschwitz Paradigm

• Yehuda and Anita discuss David Hartman's “Auschwitz or Sinai” dichotomy—whether Jews should center their identity in trauma or in covenant and agency.

• Both recognize that ignoring Holocaust memory (out of a desire not to “dwell” on antisemitism) is a mistake.

  • Quote:

    "The Holocaust is our tragedy, it’s not our rationale. And for many people, the Holocaust became a rationale, which is a mistake." — Anita Friedman (28:28)

7. Grappling with Difficult History: Poland, the U.S., and Elsewhere

• Modern Political Ramifications

  • The film’s Polish release evokes political risks—Poland’s complicated role as both an Israeli ally and a nation wrestling with its WWII legacy.

  • Analogies to America’s own revisionist movements (slavery, systemic racism) highlight the universality of confronting an “ugly past.”

  • Quote:

    "There are no societies and are no countries that don't have an ugly past. And then the question is, how do they grapple with it?" — Anita Friedman (32:02)

• Reactions in Poland

  • Despite political friction, the film receives critical and public praise in Poland, winning national awards and TV licensing.

8. The Problem of Repurposing Holocaust Memory

• Contemporary Debates: Israel, Gaza, and the Genocide Charge

  • Yehuda raises the danger of Holocaust memory being misappropriated—particularly in debates over Israel’s actions and in anti-Israel rhetoric, even by those with tenuous or hostile connections to Jewish memory.

  • Quote:

    "The biggest threat that we face right now around the memory of the Holocaust... is the genocide debate right now about Israel’s actions in Gaza." — Yehuda Kurtzer (37:13)

  • Anita describes using precise, UN-based genocide definitions to educate, avoiding politicization, and seeking solidarity with other groups who have experienced genocide (Uyghur, Armenian, Cambodian, Bosnian, Native American communities).

9. Hope and Engagement in Poland and Beyond

• Educational Innovation and Community Healing

  • Anita recounts an essay contest for Polish youth in her family’s hometown to recover suppressed local Holocaust memories, resulting in moving student work and simple, profound progress in reckoning with history.

  • Quote:

    "These children... wrote the most beautiful, compelling, inspiring, thoughtful essays about the history of the Jews and Poles in their town that you could imagine." — Anita Friedman (40:44)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Quote | Speaker | Timestamp | |-------|---------|-----------| | "Any of the tools we can use... should be considered on equal footing as relates to their very authenticity. Sometimes things can be true without being exactly right." | Yehuda Kurtzer | 06:00 | | "I feel that there’s a certain sensitivity that you have when you come from a survivor family..." | Anita Friedman | 11:33 | | "Books and literature and political meetings and committees and councils and programs is not going to change how people view Jews unless we change what we teach children." | Anita Friedman | 15:40 | | "The Holocaust is our tragedy, it’s not our rationale. And for many people, the Holocaust became a rationale, which is a mistake." | Anita Friedman | 28:28 | | "There are no societies and are no countries that don't have an ugly past. And then the question is, how do they grapple with it?" | Anita Friedman | 32:02 | | "If you want to say something is like evil, beyond evil, say it’s genocide and evoke that Holocaust genocide language. But our experiences… we use the United Nations definition of genocide, but we don't get into a legalistic argument..." | Anita Friedman | 38:24 |

Important Timestamps

• (01:06-06:00): Yehuda sets the stage with personal stories and raising the issue of Holocaust fatigue
• (09:26-14:13): Anita’s personal history and survivor “language”
• (14:51-18:36): Where Holocaust education fails and what must be reimagined
• (19:35-22:43): Results from California educational research; challenges and new curricular efforts
• (24:29-27:12): Artistic innovation in Among Neighbors and film’s broader ambitions
• (27:12-28:28): Sinai vs Auschwitz: centering Jewish agency versus trauma
• (30:13-36:48): Grappling with difficult national pasts, Poland’s and America’s struggle for honest history
• (37:13-40:03): The danger of Holocaust memory misuse in contemporary debates
• (40:07-41:38): Hopeful student engagement and grassroots remembrance in Poland

Summary Takeaways

• Holocaust memory is under threat from forgetting, suppression, and repurposing; innovative, integrative education is imperative.
• Survivor families carry a unique worldview—a form of cultural memory that should shape, but not limit, educational approaches.
• There’s broad interest—but institutional, structural, and pedagogical barriers remain.
• New storytelling, including artful documentary and nuanced narratives, can reinvigorate both Jewish and non-Jewish engagement.
• Grappling honestly with history, everywhere—whether Polish, American, or Israeli—is difficult but necessary.
• Building global partnerships on the subject of genocide can create unexpected alliances and deepen the universal relevance of Holocaust learning.

End Note:
The conversation closes with an invitation—to travel, remember, and learn together—grounded in hope that honest engagement with Holocaust memory makes communities stronger, not weaker.