Podcast Summary: Identity/Crisis

Episode: Pathways to Hope in Israel – with Ayala Dahan and Yonatan Maklis
Date: February 10, 2026
Host: Yehuda Kurtzer (President, Shalom Hartman Institute)
Guests: Ayala Dahan (Alumni Program Director of Hazon, Hartman Institute) and Yonatan Maklis (Director, Center for Social Justice in Haifa)

Main Theme and Purpose

This episode explores how young Israeli activists are forging “pathways to hope” amidst ongoing war, political turmoil, and societal challenges in Israel. Yehuda Kurtzer is joined by Ayala Dahan and Yonatan Maklis, alumni of the Hazon social change program, to reflect on the past two years—from the struggle against judicial reform to mobilization during and after October 7th—and discuss the emotional, practical, and philosophical meanings of hope. The conversation dives into the generational shift in leadership, the complexities of Israeli society today, and evolving relationships between Israeli and North American Jews.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Nature and Necessity of Hope in Times of Crisis (05:20–09:30)

• Philosophical Reflection on Hope:
  Yehuda begins with a meditation on hope, drawing on Paul’s Letter to the Romans and the story of Abraham from the Hebrew Bible.

  • “Hope is a strange thing. It’s not optimism. Optimism is about believing that things will get better. Hope is an act of persistence in the possibility that it can.” — Yehuda Kurtzer [07:04]
  • He distinguishes between faith and hope, emphasizing that, for Jews, hope isn’t passive: “Hope is a meaningless sensibility unless we get to work.”
  • References the “marshmallow test” mindset: Jewish endurance and patience for long-term fulfillment of hope and promise.

• Hope as an Act and a Precondition:
  Hope is framed as both a strategy for change and a necessary precondition for action: “Maybe somewhere between a necessary underlying precondition to change and a powerful act in its own right that deserves some of the credit when hope is actually fulfilled.” — Yehuda Kurtzer [09:12]

Youth Leadership & Generational Change in Israel (11:40–14:42)

• Younger Generation’s New Confidence:

  • Yonatan notes, “We are led by a very specific demographic since the beginning of Israel—old white men. …The younger generation, they don’t have impatience; they are more confident in themselves after they saw what they did in the war.” [11:40]
  • He sees the increased assertiveness of young people not as impatience, but as a healthy self-confidence and willingness to use their voices.

• Transitioning Leadership Models:

  • Ayala underscores the need for both patience and urgency: the younger generation is poised to lead, but recovering from war and earlier protests requires time and reflection.
  • There’s uncertainty about whether to work within existing political systems or to “build a whole new thing.” [13:31]
  • Both anticipate a generational shift in Israeli leadership.

Personal Stories of Protest, War, and Transformation (15:18–24:39)

• Ayala’s Experience:

  • Describes the rapid transition from leading protests against judicial reform (“40 weeks on the streets”) to organizing grassroots emergency relief during and after October 7th.
  • “At 12 o’clock on the 7th of October, my friends and I published this phone number on the news saying, hi, if anybody needs help, this is a number that you can call, please call us. … The requests and all of the people that needed help that called that number. It was overwhelming.” [16:18]
  • The experience deepened her understanding of the “rooted” systemic dysfunction in government, beyond what protests alone could address.
  • Notable moment: “I think that at that point we realized how deep the problem is… even deeper understanding of the problem that our generation needs to solve.” [18:40]

• Yonatan’s Journey:

  • Recounts his immediate mobilization for reserve duty on October 7th, the fear and anger at insufficient resources (“there were no bulletproof vests. And I was so angry…I thought this is enough to change the government. I was mistaken, of course.”) [20:31]
  • Six months spent fighting in Gaza marked total transformation: “I don’t know the person I was before.”
  • The war heightened his sense of mission and urgency in social activism, making “fighting the government… a continuum of my reserve duty.” [24:39]

The Shock Waves of Protest—Inside and Outside Israel (24:40–31:14)

• Diverging Forms of Activism:
  Yehuda draws a contrast between Israeli youth mobilizing in defense and civil support (running into the “war” or the “home front”) and American Jewish youth’s highly publicized campus protests against the war.

• Global Misunderstandings and Frustrations:

  • Yonatan admits to anger at some North American campus protests: “I will never forgive the encampment and a lot of the students that protest against Israel… because they said so many misguided and ignorant things that made me…protect the stuff that Bibi is saying. I will never forgive them for this.” [25:50]
  • He acknowledges failures in Israeli public diplomacy (hasbara) and the complexity/tragedy of war fueling misunderstandings abroad.

• The Gray Area & Zionist Dissent:

  • Ayala laments the polarization and lack of nuance: “There’s no perception of a gray area. … We are not our government, and people like us exist. We believe in human rights and democracy and liberal values.” [29:20]
  • The binary thinking among protesters missing that Israeli liberals can both criticize and love Israel—is a key cultural disconnect.

Encounters with North American Jewish Communities (32:07–38:09)

• Mutual Impact and Hope:

  • Ayala found unexpected hope (“three years I haven’t been that hopeful”) from connecting to Jews in North America who, despite adversity, “hold the belief and are Zionists in a society that is very, very against that.” [33:19]
  • She left inspired by the sense of shared responsibility and the insight that “our responsibility is not just for Jews and Israelis and in Israel, but also for Jewish communities outside of Israel.” [34:14]

• Yonatan’s First Visit Abroad:

  • Surprised by the strength and complexity of North American Jewish identity: “I was really amazed at how much pride they have in the Jewish identity, the Jewish history, the Jewish story. … It’s really amazing to see the people that make it happen.” [36:19]
  • Found the depth of engagement in North American youth impressive and moving, and recognized the shared adversity in the wake of global antisemitism post-October 7.

Rays of Hope and Ongoing Progress

Joint Jewish-Arab Activism (38:44–40:19)

• Yonatan describes a recent historic protest:
  “There was a huge protest against the rise of violence inside the Arabs[ic] communities in Israel. … In the history of Israel [there wasn’t] a protest like this … all together with Arabs that are leading the protest and demanding that the police will do something.”
  • Sees this as advancing shared Jewish-Arab living and a hopeful sign for societal healing.

Grassroots Leadership & Personal Hope (40:28–44:24)

• Ayala points to her community’s ongoing mobilization:
  • “I see my friends that are building political power… talking to people about how important it is to have Israel and make it even a greater, democratic, liberal country… I see how that base of leadership is building.” [41:40]
  • A deeply personal story of hope: regularly protesting for Segev Kalphon’s release and the impact when he returned home alive after years in captivity—a living example that “sometimes reality changes and gives us hope, even if it's hard to hold it.” [42:39]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Yehuda Kurtzer on the nature of hope:
  “Hope is an act of persistence in the possibility that it can [get better].” [07:04]

• Ayala Dahan describing the first hours of emergency response:
  “We just found places for family to stay, and we asked for donations for clothes and toys, and we tried to figure out how to entertain the kids that were already very, very troubled from what they saw.” [17:22]

• Yonatan Maklis on activism as saving lives:
  “I’m really thinking that I’m saving the life of the future soldiers because I see [the government] as a force of destruction that tried to destroy the Israeli society…” [24:12]

• Ayala Dahan on what is misunderstood abroad:
  “…being very criticizing of what the government does here in Israel but still wanting to be here, being a Zionist, wanting to live in peace.” [30:18]

• On shared struggle and cross-community motivation:
  “Our responsibility is not just for Jews and Israelis and in Israel, but also for Jewish communities outside of Israel.” — Ayala Dahan [34:14]

• Yehuda’s closing reflection on Abraham as a model for change agents:
  “Abraham is the first person who comes along and says, I am responsible and takes responsibility for what’s taking place.” [44:24]

Key Timestamps

• 05:20-09:30 — Yehuda’s meditation on hope and faith
• 11:40-14:42 — Generational shift and youth confidence post-war
• 15:18-18:22 — Ayala’s transition from protest to emergency relief (personal narrative)
• 19:40-22:32 — Yonatan’s immediate response to war and personal transformation
• 25:50-28:24 — Yonatan’s reaction to American campus protests and global perceptions
• 29:20-31:14 — Ayala on the lack of nuance and the “gray area” in solidarity and criticism
• 32:07-34:34 — Ayala’s reflections post speaking tour in North America
• 35:21-38:09 — Yonatan’s discoveries in North America; North American Jewish identity
• 38:44-40:19 — Yonatan on the joint Jewish-Arab protests as a hopeful milestone
• 40:28-44:24 — Ayala’s signs of progress and story of Segev Kalphon’s return
• 44:24-45:14 — Yehuda’s summary and Abraham as the model for change

Summary Takeaways

• The war and ongoing crises have catalyzed a self-confident, mobilized new generation of Israeli activists who are grappling with the limitations of government and the need for grassroots, community-driven change.
• Hope, for these leaders, is not naïve optimism but dogged persistence in the possibility of betterment, rooted in both critical action and communal solidarity.
• Divides in perception between Israeli and North American Jews can stem from a lack of nuance about dissent, patriotism, and criticism—but opportunities exist for deeper understanding and shared inspiration.
• Concrete examples of progress—like unprecedented joint Jewish-Arab protests—offer rays of hope amid persistent anxieties about the future.
• The conversation closes by elevating the Jewish tradition of taking responsibility, with these young leaders modeling the courage to persist, rebuild, and not walk by “burning buildings.”