Podcast Summary: The Haredi Draft Crisis — with Yehoshua Pfeffer

Identity/Crisis (Shalom Hartman Institute) – Aired February 17, 2026
Host: Yehuda Kurtzer
Guest: Rabbi Yehoshua Pfeffer

Overview

This episode of Identity/Crisis seeks to unpack the growing storm over the issue of Haredi (ultra-Orthodox) participation in the Israeli military—a flashpoint amplified by the aftermath of October 7 and Israel’s ongoing security crisis. Host Yehuda Kurtzer is joined by Rabbi Yehoshua Pfeffer, a leading Haredi thinker, to explore the historical, social, and ideological dynamics at play. Together, they investigate not only the roots of Haredi non-participation but also the prospects for transformation in light of broader Haredi integration with Israeli society.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Deepening Draft Crisis in Israel (00:00–13:44)

• Historical Context & Family Parallel:
  Yehuda Kurtzer opens with a personal reflection about his Haredi cousin and their shared yet divergent Jewish commitments, setting up how intimate ties wrestle with ideological divides.
  “Even our conversations about Torah felt like they were taking place on different planets, almost in an entirely different language—even though we were both speaking English.” (02:09)

• Ben-Gurion's Vision & Mamlachtiyut:
  Kurtzer references David Ben-Gurion’s 1954 writing on “mamlachtiyut”—the ideal of an inclusive, cohesive Israeli state—explaining that both religious and secular Jews must strive for shared destiny and mutual respect.
  Notable quote from Ben-Gurion:
  “No state can exist solely by governance, coercion, and majority rule... The vitality… is drawn from the general will of the people, from their shared historical needs, from mutual responsibility...” (05:05)

• The New Centrality of the Army Issue:
  Pfeffer explains that until October 7, the main concern was Haredi economic integration; after October 7, security and the need for more soldiers turned Haredi army exemption into a national crisis.
  “The demand for army service is today like never before... And the Haredi leadership understands that if there will be significant entry of Haredim into the IDF, then Haredi society will not be the same.” (12:07)

Righteous Anger, Morality, and the Israeli Public (13:44–24:47)

• Righteous Resentment vs. Genuine Need:
  Kurtzer and Pfeffer discuss whether public outrage about Haredi avoidance is about equity, genuine military necessity, or both.
  Pfeffer clarifies:
  “The principal burden... is not with a regular army, but rather with the reserves... For every reserve, meaning every regular soldier... will allow several reserve soldiers to spend much more time at home. That equation is a simple equation. It’s been very tough.” (17:20)

• Equality and Shared Fate:
  He distinguishes between left-leaning emphasis on equality and right/religious-leaning calls for participation and solidarity—even if not numerically equal.
  “Nobody makes a fuss about that because it’s not about absolute equality, it’s about being a part of it. And I think that’s the main, main point post-October 7th. What Israel needs to see is that we’re all in this together.” (19:16)

• Scarcity of Haredi Contribution on the Homefront:
  Kurtzer notes the fleeting Haredi participation after October 7, questioning why the community did not sustain homefront contributions.
  “It feels like a tragic mistake from the Haredi community to basically have shown up for like a hot second after October 7th and then to just go back to kind of business as usual.” (21:11)

Fear, Isolation, and Identity in the Haredi Community (24:47–33:37)

• Internal Tensions – Religious Zionists vs. Haredim:
  Pfeffer observes how modern Orthodox Israelis sometimes resent Haredi non-participation more than secular Israelis, due to shared expectations.
  “Sometimes the greater frustration or resentment… is actually felt from the Kipot Srugot, meaning from the religious Zionist sector... than from secular Israel.” (21:42)

• Anxiety and the Preservation of Identity:
  Pfeffer: “Haredi society was predicated on this sense of withdrawal… because of the dangers of involvement with [modern society]... October 7th, what was a moment... came with a sense of threat.” (25:38)

• Resistance to ‘B’yachad Nenatzeach’ (‘We will win together’):
  Both Haredi and some secular voices resist the slogan of national unity, seeing it as a threat to their core group identities.
  “Ted Neman—what was the other one? Guess.” / “Haaretz.” (28:44–28:45)
  “This B’yachad Nenatzeach slogan is dangerous… part of that isolationism/withdrawal is a matter of identity.” (29:00)

Inevitability of Change: Haredi Integration and Its Religious Meaning (33:37–41:30)

• Haredim Becoming Increasingly Israeli:
  Pfeffer argues that deep change is already underway: growing workforce participation, cultural integration, even pride in Israeli achievements.
  “All of that led to this blending in terms of identity. [Shows like ‘Shtisel’]—these television series look at Haredim and say, yeah, they’re human… we can do a soap opera about Haredim.” (37:58)

• The Religious Dimension to Participation:
  Quoting Abraham as a paradigm, Pfeffer asserts Jews are not meant to be isolationist—there is a mission to “spread the light.”
  “We’re not here to isolate. We’re here to spread the light. And perhaps there’s something providential here… we needed this incubation time, [but now] we have a responsibility to convert this Noah’s Ark into a lighthouse.” (38:54)

Obstacles to Progress and the Role of the Courts (41:30–48:57)

• External Pressure, Trust, and Court Imposition:
  Kurtzer and Pfeffer discuss the corrosive effect of external coercion (by courts, legislation) and the fear that Haredim are only welcomed if they assimilate.
  “If you don’t have trust… if you have a sense that the other side is going to admit you, but only on condition that you abandon your core values and you become like them, then that hampers… real conversation.” (42:09)

• Leadership, Politics, and Real Compromise:
  The political convenience of Haredi parties as coalition partners holds back constructive compromise and honest dialogue about Israel’s future.
  “Khareedi were very convenient coalition partners... However, that hasn’t been for the interest or for the benefit of this process of Haredi participation, responsibility for Israel.” (48:54)

Busting Myths and the Realities of Haredi Society (49:36–55:07)

• Three Myths about Haredi Change:

  1. Myth 1: Massive Haredi Exodus
     Pfeffer: “By far the most stable of any sector in Israel is the Haredi sector... That’s a myth.”
  2. Myth 2: Huge Leader–People Gap
     “Certainly, the significant changes that have overcome the Haredi space… have come from the field. They have not come with a support of the Haredi leadership, both rabbinic and political.”
  3. Myth 3: If Pressured, Haredim Will Leave
     “Where are they going to go? Like, that’s a ridiculous thing to say.”

• Role of Bottom-up Change versus Leadership:
  The grass-roots changes—academic institutions, engagement with Israeli society—are happening in parallel to official rabbinic stasis.
  “Too many of those who are becoming Israeli just by force of nature don't have guidance. And then they… don't have that spiritual engine to keep it going.” (54:38)

Personal Reflections and the Work of Bridging (55:07–60:24)

• Living ‘Across the Wheeze’:
  Kurtzer invites Pfeffer to reflect on living between identities and advocating for thoughtful, incremental change:
  “You’re advocating for change within the Haredi community, but at the pace by which Haredi community can stay consistent to its values... and you're not trying to leave your Israeliness behind.” (55:07)
  Pfeffer:
  “There can't be a them and us. And when we conceive of it as a them and us, we threaten to undermine the whole story.” (58:09)

• Jewish Destiny and Optimism:
  Despite challenges, Pfeffer remains optimistic:
  “I have full certainty it’s going to be good. But it will only be good if people serve as a channel for that good... every day I wake up with passion about this... it’s so rewarding, it’s so fulfilling.” (59:19)

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• On Haredi Fear of Army Service:
  “The Haredi leadership understands that if there will be significant entry of Haredim into the IDF, then Haredi society will not be the same.” — Pfeffer (12:07)

• On Israeli Societal Frustration:
  “Nobody makes a fuss about that because it’s not about absolute equality, it’s about being a part of it. And I think that’s the main, main point post-October 7th.” — Pfeffer (19:16)

• On the Tension between Haredi and Religious Zionists:
  “Sometimes the greater frustration or resentment... is actually felt from the Kipot Srugot... than from secular Israel.” — Pfeffer (21:42)

• On Change as Inevitable:
  “We’re anyway becoming Israeli. We’re anyway becoming a part of Israel in the deepest possible sense. And therefore we need to adjust our strategy... rise up to this challenge.” — Pfeffer (30:19)

• On the Need to Transcend “Them and Us”:
  “There can’t be a them and us. And when we conceive of it as a them and us, we threaten to undermine the whole story.” — Pfeffer (58:09)

Important Timestamps

• 00:00–07:54 – Introduction, Ben-Gurion, and foundational divisions
• 07:54–13:44 – The shift from economic to military focus post-October 7
• 13:44–20:20 – Public anger, moral burden, and the question of sharing sacrifice
• 20:20–28:44 – Haredi absence from homefront, internal religious divides
• 28:44–33:37 – Resistance to national unity, struggles over identity
• 33:37–41:30 – The subtle, ongoing process of Haredi–Israeli assimilation
• 41:30–48:57 – Courts, political impasses, and limits of coercion
• 49:36–55:07 – Busting myths about Haredi societal change
• 55:07–60:24 – Personal reflections on bridging communities
• 60:24–end – Closing appreciation and brief outro

This episode offers an honest look at the hard questions and slow-moving transformations at the intersection of Haredi life and Israeli society. Rabbi Pfeffer argues for a model of thoughtful, values-driven integration that can preserve core religious commitments while embracing shared national responsibility—a vision challenged by both internal fears and external pressures, but one he believes is part of the Jewish people’s unfolding story.