If Books Could Kill — "How to Win Friends and Influence People"

Podcast: If Books Could Kill
Hosts: Michael Hobbes & Peter Shamshiri
Episode: How to Win Friends And Influence People
Date: October 2, 2025

Episode Overview

Michael Hobbes and Peter Shamshiri tackle Dale Carnegie’s 1936 best-seller How to Win Friends and Influence People, dissecting its influence on the self-help genre, its foundational advice, and the personality behind the brand. Both hosts blend humor and critique as they explore the book’s seemingly timeless social strategies — from the practical and wholesome to the naïve, manipulative, or inadvertently regressive.

The episode critically examines the cultural legacy of the book, unpacks the biography of Dale Carnegie, and investigates how his life shaped his advice. Through anecdotes, analysis, and extensive historical context, Michael and Peter explore whether Carnegie's brand of positivity is insightful or insipid, well-intentioned or cynically naive.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Initial Impressions and Skepticism (00:45–06:00)

• Seminar Grifter Origins: The hosts quickly identify Carnegie’s origin story as an early example of the "seminar grifter" archetype—a precursor to modern self-help influencers.

  • “He's a seminar grifter. A hundred years ago, was the same grifter.” (B, 02:15)
  • They point out his penchant for testimonials and overblown self-importance before offering any substantive content.

• Boilerplate and Filler: The book’s introduction is padded with dubious anecdotes and glowing testimonials. Carnegie builds credibility through stories that seem “too perfect.”

• Skepticism about Quotes: The hosts mock the blandness and oddness of Carnegie’s chosen inspirational quotes.

  • “Why is he so bad at identifying good quotes for a book?” (A, 05:43)

2. Carnegie’s Life: From Poverty to Public Speaking (04:00–05:56, 17:45–19:57)

• Carnegie’s checkered early life is described: poverty, failed sales jobs, acting, and circus stints before landing on public speaking courses as his calling.

  • “He has all these stories about...waking up at 3am to feed the hogs...the hogs got cholera.” (B, 04:17)

• The hosts discuss his profound insecurities stemming from poverty and feelings of social alienation, suggesting his whole approach to human relationships is a set of coping mechanisms.

  • “If you're afraid that you don't have anything interesting to say...ask them about themselves. You're like, well, then I don't have to talk.” (B, 19:36)

• Name Change for Success: Revealed that Carnegie changed his last name to match industrialist Andrew Carnegie for implied clout.

  • “So the other little bit of salesmanship is that he legally changes his name to Carnegie.” (B, 27:32)

3. Breakdown of Principles & Advice (06:00–16:00; 28:14–41:52)

The hosts run through Carnegie’s most famous principles, offering both praise and zingers:

The “Good” Advice:

• Don’t Criticize, Condemn, or Complain:

  • “You win more friends by being nice than by being mean.” (B, 06:32)

• Give Honest and Sincere Appreciation:

  • Carnegie distinguishes between flattery and true appreciation.
  • Notable quote: “One comes from the heart out, the other from the teeth out.” (A quoting, 09:05)

• Arouse in the Other Person an Eager Want:

  • “Find out what other people's interests are...an arrangement that genuinely offers something to both.” (B, 09:53)
  • Peter: “Carnegie, introducing basic morality and human kindness to Americans in the mid-1930s.” (A, 10:04)

• Become Genuinely Interested in Other People:

  • “You can make more friends in two months by becoming genuinely interested in other people than you can in two years by trying to get other people interested in you.” (B, 10:17)

• Remember People’s Names:

  • Both hosts acknowledge the effectiveness, but lampoon its overuse by insincere networkers.

• Be a Good Listener:

  • Peter expresses ambivalence about the “everyone is ego-driven” angle: “A discordance between this and like the earlier just be nice sort of friendly stuff. Cause this is sort of like people are disgusting, ego driven animals.” (A, 15:17)

The “Cringe” or Questionable Advice:

• Smile:

  • Michael and Peter joke about outdated, gendered implications, especially directed at women.
  • “Actions speak louder than words, and a smile says, I like you. You make me happy. I am glad to see you. This is why dogs make such a hit.” (A quoting Carnegie, 12:29)

• Avoid Arguments/Conflict:

  • The hosts criticize Carnegie’s advice to always deflect conflict, highlighting a chronic avoidance of substantive disagreements.
  • “Principle 10: the only way to get the best of an argument is to avoid it.” (B, 28:41)
  • “Throughout the entire book, there's no actual conflicts between people. Everything is a misunderstanding…” (B, 29:02)

• Passive Aggression Disguised as Niceness:

  • Several anecdotes reveal Carnegie’s techniques to be passive–aggressive or even infantilizing, like the story of Gladstone chanting for breakfast (43:09), and the story of firing employees with excessive praise (45:38).

Manipulative Tactics & Political Blindness

• Rockefeller and the Labor Strikes (35:55–41:52): Carnegie presents Rockefeller’s strikebreaking as a triumph of friendly communication, ignoring violence and power imbalances.
  • “He gave such a good speech, they forgot about how much they're making at work.” (A, 37:05)
  • Michael fact-checks: meaningful reforms did happen, but Carnegie overstates the power of words versus structural change.

4. Cultural and Historical Reflections (41:52–56:19)

• Surface vs. Depth: The hosts point out the superficiality of reducing all social, economic, and political challenges to “being nice.”

  • Carnegie believed that personal charm explains political success and failure, ignoring deeper forces. (53:34)

• Critical Reception at the Time:

  • Critical elite dismissed the book as “a magnificent grasp of the obvious,” but Michael notes, “It’s worth reminding people of the obvious advice.” (B, 67:14–67:32)

• Evolution into Grift:

  • Carnegie’s sincerity sets him apart from later, more cynical self-help grifters, but his formula paved the way for more exploitative successors.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Carnegie’s Approach:

  • “If Dale was born in 1991, he'd be hosting a podcast in aviators, hawking some product. This pill changed my relationship with my dick.” (A, 02:19)

• On Self-Help Advice:

  • “Most of the advice is kind of like, fine…he’s like the OG Business self help book.” (A, 01:38)
  • “All mass market advice is just a way of people packaging their own biographies.” (B, 16:55)

• On Conflict Avoidance:

  • “When you look at Dale Carnegie’s biography…What you see is an extremely earnest guy…who just can't think very deeply about anything.” (B, 47:33)

• On Gendered Relationship Advice:

  • “Many a wife has made her own marital grave with a series of little digs.” (B quoting Carnegie, 56:22)
  • “She has to psychologically mold herself to the shape of her husband.” (A, 65:50)
  • “This advice to men is more progressive than half the advice we cover on this show.” (B, 64:02)

• On the Book’s Enduring Message:

  • “So let's obey the golden rule and give unto others what we would have others give unto us…All the time, everywhere.” (A quoting Carnegie, 68:47)

Timestamps of Important Segments

• 00:45 — Introduction to Dale Carnegie and first impressions
• 04:00–05:56 — Carnegie’s biography: poverty, early jobs, public speaking
• 06:00–16:00 — Major principles summarized and critiqued
• 17:45–19:57 — Carnegie’s insecurities and how they shaped his advice
• 28:14–41:52 — Deeper flaws: conflict avoidance, PR vs. real social change (Rockefeller anecdote)
• 41:52–56:19 — Naivete, gender politics, and limitations of Carnegie's worldview
• 56:19–66:42 — Gendered relationship advice and domestic section
• 67:14–68:08 — The book’s critical reception and legacy
• 68:47–69:38 — Closing reflections and the enduring value of basic human kindness

Tone & Style Notes

The conversation is sharp, playful, and loaded with sarcasm and bits — but substantial in its critique. The hosts maintain a balance between affectionate mockery, historical depth, and serious analysis. Their humor is self-aware, often aiming at the book’s antiquated attitudes and the self-help genre’s shortcomings, while recognizing the nuggets of enduring wisdom in Carnegie’s message.

Conclusion

This episode of If Books Could Kill offers a historically grounded, snark-laden, but ultimately fair review of Dale Carnegie’s self-help classic. Michael and Peter poke holes in the superficiality and blind spots of How to Win Friends and Influence People, especially its conflict avoidance and gender politics, but credit Carnegie’s earnestness and genuine attempts to teach kindness and tact.

Key takeaway:
Much of Carnegie’s advice — be kind, listen, think of others — remains “obvious but worth restating,” though rooted in a worldview that’s naïve about power and conflict. The book laid the groundwork for both the wholesome and cynical strains of self-help to follow. As Michael and Peter put it: At his best, Carnegie wants everyone to be treated with sincere appreciation. At his worst, he can't imagine a world where that alone isn’t enough.

Memorable final exchange:

A (reading Carnegie):
“So let's obey the golden rule and give unto others what we would have others give unto us. How? When? Where? The answer is all the time, everywhere.”

B:
“I like when this is genuinely moving. It's nice.” (68:47–69:35)