ARTISTS AND JEWELLERS - SYBIL AND DAVID YURMAN

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Artists and Jewellers - Sybil and David Yurman"

Introduction

In the December 12, 2024 episode of If Jewels Could Talk with Carol Woolton, Carol Woolton engages in an insightful conversation with Sybil and David Yurman, the dynamic husband-and-wife duo behind the renowned American jewelry brand, David Yurman. Carol, Britain's leading authority on jewellery and gemstones, delves into the creative and entrepreneurial journey of the Yurmans, uncovering the blend of art and commerce that has defined their illustrious careers.

Early Lives and Artistic Beginnings

Sybil Yurman’s Artistic Awakening Sybil shares her vibrant youth in Greenwich Village, where she immersed herself in the bustling arts scene. At 16, she deliberately left home to pursue her passion for painting, inspired by Monet's impressionistic expression of feelings over precise depictions. Her time in Greenwich Village exposed her to legendary figures like Allen Ginsberg and Jack Kerouac, fostering her deep connection with the beat poetry and jazz music worlds.

Sybil Yurman [05:34]: "I was living in Greenwich Village and... became quite involved in the jazz music world and the literary scene."

David Yurman’s Athletic and Artistic Duality David reflects on his early years as an athlete, aspiring to compete in the Olympics. After an inspiring yet humbling encounter with Roger Bannister, David shifted his focus from athletics to sculpture and jewelry making. His stint at a lumber mill in Eugene, Oregon, and subsequent apprenticeship under sculptors like Jacques Lipchitz and Theodore Roszak, cemented his technical skills and artistic discipline.

David Yurman [11:49]: "I learned that you have to be disciplined. You have to be focused."

Meeting and Forming a Creative Partnership

Sybil and David’s paths converged in Greenwich Village, where Sybil was returning from Provincetown after her artistic explorations. Their mutual love for sculpture and art led to a natural partnership, both personally and professionally. Their collaboration was built on a foundation of shared creativity and complementary skills.

Sybil Yurman [20:49]: "We met in Greenwich Village, actually, in a studio... and I really did."

Building the Business: From Craft Fairs to a Million-Dollar Enterprise

The Yurmans began their entrepreneurial journey by selling sculptural jewelry and belt buckles at craft fairs. David’s talent for creating unique pieces quickly turned into a lucrative business. Encouraged by friends, David expanded his production, leading to a three-million-dollar buckle business within a few years. Sybil played a crucial role in managing operations, handling shipping, and nurturing their growing enterprise.

David Yurman [19:05]: "Within a year or two, I had like a three million dollar buckle business with distributors going now all over the country."

Transition to Department Stores: Branding and Packaging Innovation

Venturing beyond craft fairs, Sybil and David transitioned to major department stores like Bloomingdale’s, Neiman Marcus, and Nordstrom. They revolutionized jewelry retail by insisting on branded packaging, certificates of authenticity, and a cohesive display system. This approach set them apart from traditional jewelers who typically categorized products by metal type or gemstone.

Sybil Yurman [30:10]: "They were showing them by commodity, by a commoditized way of looking at them. Here's your gold, here's your diamond..."

Signature Design: The Iconic Cable Motif

The introduction of the signature cable design marked a pivotal moment for David Yurman. Inspired by ancient motifs and technical innovation, the cable motif became synonymous with their brand. David meticulously engineered the cable to be both flexible and durable, incorporating platinum into the silver alloy to enhance its strength.

David Yurman [38:24]: "So we have a group of Italian geniuses in New Jersey that make all our cable."

Their innovation extended to embedding diamonds in silver jewelry, a groundbreaking move that initially faced skepticism but ultimately redefined luxury jewelry standards.

David Yurman [45:29]: "We did the vicar test and knocked them around and they just hold up just fine."

Branding and Advertising: Authenticity Through Collaboration

Understanding the power of authentic representation, Sybil and David collaborated with renowned photographer Peter Lindbergh to create genuine and relatable advertising campaigns. Unlike the conventional depictions of extravagant lifestyles, their advertisements showcased real women in everyday settings, enhancing the accessibility and desirability of their pieces.

Sybil Yurman [48:51]: "Peter said, I don't have any ideas... I just realized you're the idea."

Collaboration and Partnership: Blending Art with Business

Sybil and David emphasize the importance of collaboration in their creative process. Sybil focuses on merchandising and editing David's artistic visions, ensuring each piece aligns with the brand's aesthetic and emotional resonance. Their partnership balances artistic innovation with business acumen, fostering a harmonious and productive work environment.

Sybil Yurman [53:47]: "When I look at a piece of jewelry, David will say, what do you think? And he wants me to edit it..."

Personal Insights and Lifelong Commitment

Beyond business, Sybil and David share personal anecdotes that highlight their deep connection and mutual support. They discuss their wedding—spontaneously organized without traditional rings—and the daily rituals of wearing their own creations, reinforcing the personal significance of their work.

Sybil Yurman [58:35]: "I wear a flexible sculpted cable bracelet that's very soft and sensuous and easy to wear."

Advice for Young Artists: Embracing Passion and Collaboration

In closing, Sybil and David offer heartfelt encouragement to aspiring artists and entrepreneurs. They stress the importance of pursuing one's passion, embracing collaboration, and maintaining authenticity in creative endeavors. Their journey exemplifies how dedication, innovation, and mutual respect can lead to enduring success.

Sybil Yurman [54:06]: "The objective for the book is to encourage people to pursue what touches them."

Conclusion

Sybil and David Yurman's story is not merely about creating exquisite jewelry but about weaving art into the fabric of everyday life through thoughtful design and genuine relationships. Their episode on If Jewels Could Talk serves as an inspiring testament to the power of creativity, collaboration, and unwavering dedication in building a legacy that transcends generations.

Notable Quotes:

• Sybil Yurman [05:34]: "I became quite involved in the jazz music world and the literary scene."
• David Yurman [11:49]: "I learned that you have to be disciplined. You have to be focused."
• Sybil Yurman [30:10]: "They were showing them by commodity, by a commoditized way of looking at them. Here's your gold, here's your diamond..."
• David Yurman [38:24]: "So we have a group of Italian geniuses in New Jersey that make all our cable."
• Sybil Yurman [53:47]: "When I look at a piece of jewelry, David will say, what do you think? And he wants me to edit it..."
• Sybil Yurman [54:06]: "The objective for the book is to encourage people to pursue what touches them."

Final Thoughts

This episode of If Jewels Could Talk not only highlights the artistic and business prowess of Sybil and David Yurman but also offers valuable lessons on sustaining a creative partnership and building a brand that remains true to its roots. Listeners are left inspired by the Yurmans' commitment to merging art with everyday elegance, making this episode a must-listen for jewelry enthusiasts and aspiring designers alike.

Transcript

[Carole Walton]

We're so done with New Year. New you this year it's More youe on Bumble. More of you shamelessly sending playlists, especially.

[David Yerman]

That one filled with show tunes.

[Carole Walton]

More of you finding Geminis because you.

[David Yerman]

Know you always like them. More of you dating with intention because you know what you want and you.

[Carole Walton]

Know what we love that for you, someone else will too.

[David Yerman]

Be More you this year and find them on Bumblebee.

[Carole Walton]

This episode is brought to you by Fooley Gemstones. You're at the kitchen table. Are you fighting for space? Are you collaborating? Are you showing each other what you're working on at that moment?

[Sybil Yerman]

All of those things occur at different times, depending on our mood and how cranky one of us is.

[David Yerman]

She's speaking of me in code, by the way. Like every wife, she's very seldom cranky. I'm very often cranky.

[Carole Walton]

I'm Carol Houlton, the voice of jewellery. Welcome to if Jules Could Talk. I'm an author and broadcaster and the woman who initiated the role of jewelry editor at magazines like Tatler and Vogue. This is a podcast for everyone, for people who do like jewellery, for people who don't realize they like jewellery, and anyone intrigued by fascinating facts, new ideas and forgotten histories. So join me as I tell sparkly tales and meet all sorts of people delving into four centuries of jewelry culture and investigate what's happening now. I have as my guests David and Sybil Yerman, or Sybil and David Yerman, whichever way round, they are a true partnership and they are the owners of the American jewelry company of the same name. So, Sybil and David, thank you so much for joining me today.

[Sybil Yerman]

It's our pleasure.

[David Yerman]

Yeah, my pleasure as well.

[Carole Walton]

Over the years, so many people have talked and said to me, you know, jewellery is wearable art, but in your two cases, it really is wearable art. I mean, Sybil is an artist, creator and businesswoman. David is a sculpture of three dimensional objects. And together you have redefined the rules of crafting jewelry and because you've done it together. And we're here today to talk about your new book, which is. Is a sort of combined memoir, isn't it?

[Sybil Yerman]

Yes, it is, absolutely.

[David Yerman]

Yeah, it is, yeah.

[Carole Walton]

Combined memoir and a collaboration all about your partnership and your working life together, which is sort of inextricably linked to the work. So I thought, well, to understand your creative lives, can we go kind of back to the beginning.

[Sybil Yerman]

Yes.

[Carole Walton]

And understand what you were both doing when you met, because you were kind of both tearaways, weren't you, at the time.

[Sybil Yerman]

What's the word you used?

[Carole Walton]

Tear away. Were you a tear away?

[Sybil Yerman]

I don't know.

[David Yerman]

I like the sound. I want to be one.

[Sybil Yerman]

I don't know.

[Carole Walton]

I think you both were.

[David Yerman]

Is that like a runaway renegade?

[Carole Walton]

Exactly.

[David Yerman]

Oppositional.

[Carole Walton]

Very, very naughty. You know, sort of leader of the.

[David Yerman]

Counterculture in her own way.

[Carole Walton]

Exactly. So, Sybil, what were you up to?

[Sybil Yerman]

Naughtiness. I don't know. Where you would like me to start.

[Carole Walton]

Well, you ran away from home. You were like a teenage runaway, weren't you?

[Sybil Yerman]

I wouldn't put it like that. I really had purpose. I wasn't a random kind of runaway. I had planned it for quite a while. And my planning was around going to the Museum of Modern Art, seeing the Monet paintings there and saying, I know what this person's doing. They're painting the feeling. They're not painting the exact water lilies. I could paint a feeling as well. I think I'll go home and do that. My father bought me paints and I would paint anyone in the neighborhood a painting for 25, 35 or $50. And they just had to buy me the paint colors they wanted me to use. And I would paint my feelings of the day looking at whatever objects I wanted to look at. And this was going to afford me the money to leave home. I wasn't running away. I was leaving because I had someplace to at 16 years of age. I started saving my money when I was about 15 or so. And I wanted to live in California and I wanted to swim in the ocean while the sun set. Which of course, when I finally got to California, the water was so cold and it was dotted with oil wells. And that was not something I was ever going to do, but it was one of my few aspirational dreams. And. And I just had another idea of where I wanted to live and the people I wanted to spend time with. So I was living in Greenwich Village and I'm curious about these interesting looking people that my father had taken me to see a few months earlier. He took me to jewelry stores where everything was handmade. I went to Washington Square Park. A man sat down. Young man sat down next to me. He said, what's your name? And I said, sybil. And he said, wow, someone named you after the Delphic oracles. That's pretty cool. So I ended up meeting Allen Ginsberg and Peter Olofsky. I went to jazz clubs. I met Art Blakey and Horace Silver. I became quite involved in the jazz music world and the literary scene.

[Carole Walton]

So they were all hanging down In Greenwich Village at the time.

[Sybil Yerman]

Exactly. So I was just on the periphery of it as a very young girl.

[Carole Walton]

And what were you all doing? Were you all in clubs at night?

[Sybil Yerman]

Well, we used to go to a place called the Dom and dance to the Beatles and watch Allen Ginsberg throw himself around the room because he didn't really have that kind of rhythm to him. Also, there were coffee houses where you went to listen to poetry readings. And then there were people's homes where you went and took mescaline that you could buy for 25 cents a capsule.

[Carole Walton]

Just in the process of pursuing your art.

[Sybil Yerman]

Precisely. I didn't know what it was, but I was interested because they told me it was mind altering. And I definitely, coming from the Bronx, I needed a little mind altering. I knew I was entering into a new world of ease and grace, and I was very intrigued and was looking for a new place and new people to meet. I left school at 16 because I really just wanted to spend my time reading and painting. So that was the very beginning.

[Carole Walton]

And did you share a lot of artistic experiences with this group?

[Sybil Yerman]

Oh, absolutely, absolutely.

[Carole Walton]

Did it alter your mind? Did you come out with a different outlook?

[Sybil Yerman]

Oh, yeah, I did. I did. There was very little judgment, very little measuring. It had an ease to it and the idea of let be. And it was the beginning of Zen Buddhism. So there was a tranquility and an acceptance and a lack of real measurement of where you were on a strata. It was a cultural revolution going on, just starting at the time. So the idea of fitting into a status quo was disappearing.

[Carole Walton]

Did you feel you were the new generation breaking through and breaking through boundaries and formal living?

[Sybil Yerman]

I didn't know that it was new. I just knew that by going to this new environment, this is what I encouraged. These are the people that I met. I just assumed they'd always been there. I had just found them.

[Carole Walton]

That's an interesting way of looking at it.

[Sybil Yerman]

Yes, it was a very different way. And then it was about going to San Francisco.

[Carole Walton]

What were the hippies at the time?

[Sybil Yerman]

No, it was before the hippies, because it was really. Ginsburg was not a hippie. And that whole crowd, they were not hippies. They were beat poets. They were beatniks is what they got referred to jazz heads as well. And San Francisco was a place that one gravitated towards. And the Monterey Jazz Festival at that time as well. So there I was, working in a cafe in a coffee house in Greenwich Village and went to San Francisco. A friend said, come to San Francisco, put up a note at City Lights bookstore and I'll find. And I said, well, okay, that sounds great. I didn't know what that really meant, but I did it. And a few days later I was found and I needed a place to live. And I was taken by my friend to a house called the Hyphen House. And the Hyphen House was, I didn't realize really where I was being taken, but it was a house of poets and writers and musicians, and it was only men that lived there. And he said, women don't live here, but because you're so young, maybe they'll let you stay and you can take care of the house. And so how old were you?

[Carole Walton]

How old were you, Sybil?

[Sybil Yerman]

At that point I was 16 and a half, maybe just 17.

[Carole Walton]

So you've had all those experiences already?

[Sybil Yerman]

Yeah, there was a room I could live in that Lou Welsh, the writer, was not there and I could stay there. As he's showing me the house. There's a man on the kitchen floor. He said, the kitchen, there's where everything is. But who's the man on the kitchen floor? What's he doing? He said, do not wake him up. It's Jack Kerouac. So that was my introduction to the next stage of a creative existence in San Francisco.

[Carole Walton]

And so now, David, tell us what you were doing while Sybil was doing that.

[David Yerman]

So we're thinking this is what, 1957? 8, 9, 9.

[Sybil Yerman]

59, yeah, 59.

[David Yerman]

So that would be a year before I would have graduated from high school.

[Sybil Yerman]

And we developed the same age.

[David Yerman]

Yeah. And. And in 1959, I think in, in, in the summer of 58, I went out to Eugene, Oregon to work at a, a lumber mill, which my father, he got somehow involved with this partnership. And they said, well, David, would you like to go? I never went to camp and always worked. And they said, would you like to go and visit this lumber mill in Eugene, Oregon? I said, I've never been on an airplane. I said, yeah, let's do it. So I went out and I also went out to, to run. I was a miler and I had some really nationally recognized times. And there was this, you know, Haywood Field and, and the, the number one, actually it was a Brit who ran the first sub. Four minute mile. Yeah.

[Carole Walton]

Roger Bannister.

[David Yerman]

Roger Bannister. And the next two break. Roger Banisters by a second was Daryl Burleson, who was from Eugene, Oregon. And I went out there and I asked the coach if it would be okay. And he said, Tuesday through Fridays, come on Out. Bring your spikes. Gave some dates, and anytime after three and cools down a bit then. And. And I did, and I. I ran with Daryl Burleson. I said, oh, my God. And it's sort of like Forrest Gump. My life is always. Somehow I find myself in the midst of things, and I don't know how did I even get. Well, this one I knew. I. I wrote him a letter and I ran with him, and. And it was like I ran about a quarter, three quarters of the mile right next to him. I said, you know what? I think I can make the Olympics this year. And then as we came around to the stretch of the last quarter, it was like Roger the Rabbit and the. It was just like, boing. He just disappeared. He said. He looked at me. He said, you want to kick? You know, you do the last bit on the straightaway.

[Sybil Yerman]

You.

[David Yerman]

You kick. You just give it everything you have. And I said, yeah, let's do it. And it was like he was gone. He just disappeared.

[Carole Walton]

So the Olympic dreams went out the window very quickly.

[David Yerman]

I think I'm getting over my skis. I didn't say that. It wasn't the expression. I said, I think I have a lot more time, more to work on with my kick in general.

[Carole Walton]

So then you concentrated in the lumber yard.

[David Yerman]

Well, I thought I would, but I was actually working in the. In the office, and I was doing kind of cost accounting and looking for errors. And so I had this. They showed me little tricks to find if something is off. And I was doing. I was just, like, forensically looking at things that didn't tie up and tick, tick and tide.

[Sybil Yerman]

It has stood us in very good stead all these years.

[David Yerman]

Yeah, I can look at numbers on balance sheets and. Not balance sheets and P. Ls and. And proposals. And I look for exception, and I say, oh, why is this Double anyone else's line in the capital expense. Who's running this business? And, you know, I'm very kind of pecuniary about that and just. I just dig in. But I was a terrible student. I mean, like, I'm ADD Dyslexic, and I. And I'm actually a chairman of the board, and I've grown into that. You know, I speak about being dyslexic. I have a T shirt that's. That's dyslexic, and it's spelled backwards and letters flipping around. So I had. I had very little opportunity to achieve scholastically. It was like. It was slim to none, and I could dance, and I was I was in a dance group and all women, Women's Modern Dance club. And I was an athlete and I got a lot of. For being in the women's dance club.

[Carole Walton]

But probably worked for you at the time.

[David Yerman]

It worked for me. I'm happy, you know, I said, do I have to really wear a leotard? And I'm afraid you do.

[Carole Walton]

So what kind of dance was it?

[David Yerman]

Modern dance, you know, Mothagram or the Gram. I wanted to be Fred Astaire. I wanted to be Gene Kelly. I wanted to. Ray Bolger was another great dancer, believe it or not, as hard that may seem. And Mickey Rooney guy could dance. You know, a lot of people could dance.

[Sybil Yerman]

As you can imagine, dancing is a big part of our relationship.

[David Yerman]

Yeah, we had a couple of twirls the other morning. It was nice. We play a lot of music.

[Carole Walton]

It's too bad we're not filming this. I tell you, I get you both up dancing.

[David Yerman]

I'm. I'm ready. But on the way back from this month, experience in Eugene, Oregon, which is mind blowing because it's another culture. I'd never been out of New York, Bronx or Long island, but this was exceptional. They didn't know who I was. I had a lot. I had very long hair and it was early beat movement for me. And again, I'm probably 15, 16. But instead of going home, I made money and I had to pay for my flight back. I went to Provincetown, which is another bastion of the beat world. And my sister was there for a summer. She was supposedly having a job as a waitress, but she met this Cuban sculptor and just fell madly in love. And as he did, and I flew and got to Provincetown and they said, we can get you a place to stay. And it was in. In the dunes and there's a lot of sand. And it was a beautiful little cabin that was handmade by a woman named Sasha. And I hung out with the beatniks. I just was like their mascot. They would take me to the bar and on the back, we'll get you in. And I worked with Ernesto Jerez Gonzalez, who was an incredibly talented sculptor that came from Cuba, had a great reputation. He did a big piece in the. In the. The plaza. He showed me how to do direct welding. And it was like, oh, my God, this is the best. Because I. It was an oxy settling torch and a brazing rod, and you sort of melted it and sort of like you see these guys doing glass sometimes in the molds, and they're just pulling the Glass and heating it. And it's the same. Instead of using glass, you're using a bronze rod with flux on it. And I was making little. Little birds. And Ernesto would say, it's incredible you're doing this already. And, you know, I don't think I taught you that much. And mostly I was doing is making links, little bronze links. And those links became part of chains. So there were these bronze direct welded, kind of organically shaped links, which stood me in good stead. I mean, it was. It was a living for me. It was. I didn't have wash cars, deliver newspapers in high school. I could make any longer any. I could make links. And it was like a revelation.

[Carole Walton]

Were you selling them through a gallery at that point?

[David Yerman]

No, I was selling them in the cafeteria in. In 11th and 12th grade. My father said, if you can figure out how to. What happened was I kind of burned part of the finished knotty pine basement and set it on fire. It wasn't a big fire. It was a lot of smoke. And he said, no, that's it. You got to go to the garage and work. And so I went out in the garage and was kind of cold sometimes, but he said, if you can sculpt a hand, because he knew that drawing a hand was, you know, was a sign of you had artistic talent. So I. I sculpted the Alphabet, and I figured I could do initials with that and I could sell them. And it was like, I think, $10, and if you want an initial, it was two, so it was 20 bucks. And. And most people just said, I just want a hand. Give me a B. Give me whatever it was. So. So I was doing initials. I was taking orders. And then I was called to the principal, and they said, you know, you're soliciting, and that's, you know, you cannot solicit in. In the school. I said, I'm not soliciting. I'm selling. And my father came in, and he was a bit of a, you know, a rebel himself. And he says, what's wrong with that? And, Mr. Yerman, we'd like you to have your son cut his hair. It's a bit long. He said, well, do you have a rule for soliciting in hair? I'd like to see it. And he said, we don't have anything for his hair, being as long as it looked like Jimi Hendrix. It was a hedge. It was sometimes known as a Jew fro. And I said, I'm keeping it. And my father said, I don't see anything wrong with it. And meanwhile, he Said, you got to cut that hair. But faced against the authority, he was like, who do you think you are telling my son what to do? And I said, well, now. Now I know where I got it, you know, but in the jeans, it's in the genes. So I, I was. We're both rebels. And what did you. What was the word you used before?

[Carole Walton]

Tear away.

[David Yerman]

Tear away. Yes. We were, we were. We were terrorists. And it was perfect for me to move into this world. And I mean, there was Norman Mailer and Franz Kline and Gregory Corso and the writers, and it was just so exciting. So the book is really about living through that time. We were not famous. We were too young. You know, we were not Basquiat. We were not. We didn't. We didn't achieve fame. And we were just there and we were just working.

[Carole Walton]

And you then just began selling your sculptures through galleries.

[David Yerman]

Yeah, and craft fairs. There was sculptures, sculptural jewelry, belt buckles. I think at the. By the age of probably 21, 22 years old, I had a buckle. I made buckles and I sold them at craft fairs. And a friend of mine said, and they were originals. He said, why don't you cast them and make multiples? I'll set you up.

[Sybil Yerman]

I remember that.

[David Yerman]

I said, really? I'll set you up. And then you choose. Make 12 buckles. And no matter what they look like, even the worst, keep it.

[Sybil Yerman]

It.

[David Yerman]

You never know what the public likes. I said, oh, okay. So he set me up to do it and help finance a little bit of it. And I paid him back quite quickly. And I had a buckle business. And within a year or two, I had like a three million dollar buckle business with distributors going now all over the country. I had three distributors and I was.

[Sybil Yerman]

I was working with him on that.

[David Yerman]

At that time, Civil got me to stop polishing the buckles because that takes, you know, you make them and then they're molded and cast and they deliver these raw buckles. And now you have to grind off the sprues and clean and, you know, oxidize.

[Sybil Yerman]

I hired people. I didn't realize I was hiring ex drug addicts or people from Al Anon who needed jobs.

[David Yerman]

They were incredible workers.

[Sybil Yerman]

It was great.

[David Yerman]

Yeah, they all were on a commune in sort of upstate New York. And they would come and they were part of. Part of a Gurdjieff group where the hammer and the nail, you become the hammer. And you just focus on. Find freedom in work and focus. They were. These guys would just. You'd have to pull them off the bench.

[Carole Walton]

Where did you meet?

[Sybil Yerman]

We met in Greenwich Village, actually, in a studio. A sculptor, Hans van der Wohenkampf, had a studio where David and five or six other sculptors worked. And David was the foreman. I had just left Martha's Vineyard. A friend said, you cannot stay here. You'll end up with one of these musicians. So you have to leave. And she said, go, take this job in New York. And I had an apartment in New York, so I went back to New York. I went for the interview. I met, you know, the six sculptors. They were all working in a studio. And I walked through this area where they were, and I was. When I got to the other end, I said to the woman, you were.

[David Yerman]

You were ogled and Googled and goggled. All the guys were, like, hanging over there, turned off their torches, and we're leaning over. So, my God, this is really. I mean, she had giant Cher hair, abundance of black hair, and she had two ponchos. One was like a skirt and one was a poncho. So she was this poncho tree in this giant head of hair. And she was taking really extra long steps. And I think she had black boots, red laces, and little bells.

[Carole Walton]

Don't you remember everything?

[David Yerman]

Oh, man, that was. You would have remembered that. We looked at each other, we said, what the hell is that? I mean, it's really hot.

[Carole Walton]

You made an impact, Cyril.

[Sybil Yerman]

Oh, my God, I truly did. I remember putting two ponchos on, and I'm thinking, why am I doing that? Well, I feel like wearing them, and I don't know which one I want.

[Carole Walton]

So did he make an impact on you?

[Sybil Yerman]

Yes, he did. I liked the way he looked. He was very graceful. And he had a sensitivity about him. That was what I was interested. And he had great blue eyes. So I said to my friend, is David. Is he married? And she said, no. And I said, is he with someone? And she said, no. Okay. Is he gay? And she said, no. And I said, oh, good.

[David Yerman]

Check, check, check.

[Sybil Yerman]

I would make lunch for everyone every day, all the guys. So everyone would eat together and we would all talk because they were all single guys. And this way, everyone had a great lunch. We got to talk about dating and what was going on in our lives. And I got to spend more time with David. And after, I think, three months, we started dating. We went on a date on my birthday for my 25th birthday, and we've been together ever since.

[Carole Walton]

And in the book, David, you say that you learned something really important from Hans the Sculptor who's studio you were in that he made you realize you can do art and run a business at the same time.

[David Yerman]

Yeah, he. He was doing that. He had a. A business that we. We were working on, which was. It was in the DND building. It was decorated building. And he made ornamental fountains that could be plugged in your living room and put little rocks around and make a little ecosystem there. And there's a garden and this beautiful sounding dripping of water and from going to cups of copper and bronze. And they would age and become patina by themselves. And there were about 5 or 6 of styles.

[Sybil Yerman]

We both worked. I. I had the job of handling all the billing and overseeing the shipping where the men made the pieces and did all the creating of the sculptures. The fountain.

[Carole Walton]

So you were both learning.

[David Yerman]

Oh, yeah.

[Carole Walton]

How to run a business.

[David Yerman]

But I worked for Jacques Lipschitz for almost two years. And I worked for Theodore Roszak, who's incredibly fierce sculptor and very disciplined, who I had known from watching TV as a. As a kid. When I was 15, 16 years old, he was on television something called what in the world? And he would identify this. This object. And he was. That was almost. He was always right. And it was just wonderful seeing this little. Little guy with a beret. It was very thick accent. And these erudite curators of museums just get it wrong. And he was, no, Jesus, it's not possible. They didn't have this kind of paint in that period. This is bullshit. Excuse me. So he was so clear about it. It. And then as I was working on making sculptural jewelry, I was at a foundry and they said, do you want to. You would like to have a. Like a regular job? Just, you know, would you like. Jacques Lipschitz is looking for an assistant. And so I work for Lipschitz. And I learned, I learned, I learned that you have to be disciplined. You have to. You have to be focused. You have to. You have to put all the rest of the stuff aside and you. And he said, you have to have your one main girlfriend. 1. Don't be bouncing around. Just focus on what you do. And. And everything opens up if you try to jump all over. He said, you're very talented and you're jumping. You do. I see what you do because I made a deal with him. I'm bringing my torch and I'd like to continue making my small sculptures. Okay. So in the afternoon when I, we. After we came back from the diner up in Hastings on the Hudson, I'd work on my little Sculptures. And he said, they are charming. They're very, very charming. But, you know, I may have to get a commission when you sell these because you're making too much time here. So the nine years I was apprenticing, I was also. I had my own studio, and I mean, Lipschitz. Lipschitz had talked to a relative who had money, said, you have to give him a stipend so he can. Can go to school and he can do his own work for a year and he'll tell you how much it is. And Lipschitz got an uncle to. To pony up. And I was able to go to school, learn some more traditional sculpture techniques and understand what art was about. And. And I just said, this is my life. And I couldn't have done it without. Without Lipschitz insisting, teaching me how he lived his life.

[Carole Walton]

But if Lipsich said, you should have one, concentrate on one thing. Did he think it was okay for you to go between sculpting and jewelry?

[David Yerman]

He didn't know about the jewelry?

[Carole Walton]

He didn't know about it?

[David Yerman]

No, no. And I was not a jeweler back then. I could. Do, you know, these little links that Ernesto Gonzalez taught me how to make, I could sell as many as I could make almost to friends and friends of friends. So it would just get me through. And in the meantime, I was getting kind of a wage from Lipschitz or from Roszak. It was, I don't know, like 150 a week.

[Carole Walton]

And so at what point did the jewelry begin to take over from the sculptures?

[David Yerman]

I think it probably was around the. When we started selling, making buckles and doing multiples and then figuring out how we could craft. So using the word craft, a. An organization around that. And Sybil was. I mean, I'm. I couldn't ship the right pieces in the right boxes, going to the wrong addresses. I mean, I was. I'm dyslexic. And it just was so difficult. And she said, I'll do that for you. I'll come in. And she was going to school and she was painting at the same time. She said, I'll. I'll take care of that. And then I wasn't coming to bed until like, 11:00, 12:00, because I was working to fulfill these orders. And she said, we gotta get some help. And so she hired these gurdjief people to come in and work their little fingers off. And before I knew it, I was going to. Because I had the belt buckles and I had stud skull. I took the Belt buckles and sculptural jewelry which I also started to cast and I. And the buckles were sculpture. There was an angel buckle, there was these curious figures and, and, and then there were some buckle buckles. You know, it was like angel. I did a lot of angels and, and then I started doing these orange sort of like concho oval shape buckles with stones in the middle kind of southwest feeling. And I went to the national boutique show and those shows were crazy. I mean the, the pot at the McAlpin Hotel. I mean just walk down the hall. By the time you get to the, you, your, your stand, you were like stoned. It was wild, just crazy stuff. But the atmosphere of being in it was. It was a grand bazaar held in various hotels, national fashion and boutique show. And it stopped developing relationships. And I, one guy was so what I was doing and, and said I have like five stores in Colorado and Wyoming and these are really. Could you do more? And blah, blah, blah, blah. Next.

[Sybil Yerman]

Those stores were craft galleries. So at that time we only sold to craft shops or craft galleries or galleries. It wasn't mainstream.

[David Yerman]

No.

[Carole Walton]

And then you moved on to the department stores.

[Sybil Yerman]

Yes, we were invited.

[Carole Walton]

And that Sybil, I thought was quite interesting in the book the way that from the word go, you kind of decided to do everything differently. You insisted on logos being displayed and certificates of authenticity and you had special packaging and it was something that people just didn't do then.

[David Yerman]

No, no, no, no. In fact, not only the larger establishments, Bloomingdale's, Neiman Sachs, Nordstrom, et cetera, Bergdorfs, they were not using the name in the showcase. And the better jeweler in all the towns in America, they would just show the collections. And they tend to show them by commodity, by a commoditized way of looking at them. Here's your gold, here's your diamond, here's your mrubi sapphire. Your silver is in the back of the store. So that's silver gold jewelry.

[Sybil Yerman]

So and rings were shown. The rings were shown categories in a ring category. Earrings were shown in another case very often is what they did.

[David Yerman]

So we from the craft world, we sold, we were. It's our name. I'm the crafts person that did it, that created and worked it and whatnot. And, and that ethos carried through. And that was part of the. At the same time, this is the great American craft movement, which was probably from 19 early 60s all the way through to 80, 81, 82. I looked it up on Google to see is there something called American craft movement? And there is. And those are the dates. And it was. You know, Dale Chihuly was part of that, and Wendell Castle with furniture and Albert Paley. These are a very established artist craft. And the art craft world was merging.

[Sybil Yerman]

And we had to. You had to go before a screening committee to be able to join the American.

[David Yerman]

Yeah, these are all jury. We had a jury jury. And we did it for nine. That I apprenticed for nine years. I did. We did the craft world for nine years. And that we. We did together. And so I was selling buckles, sculptural jewelry. And then as. That's nine years, so styles changed, and we were wholesaling and retailing at these fairs.

[Carole Walton]

It's really hard work. Really hard work.

[David Yerman]

Oh, yeah. Everyone was in the. In the craft world. They're loading up their VW buses. We're. We're still in New York City. And so we're loading up our 1962 Caddy Brome. And we knocked out the back seats, and so we could put all our equipment there and put roof racks on. And we built. You know, we would build our stand, and it was. And finally we made our stand. So our jewelry was in frames, like you would frame a piece of art. So we built the walls and the jeweler on these black or gray velvet, and we would pin our sculptural jewelry, and we'd sell. So we really understood how to deal with customers. We also understood the language. They were their language about our work, what they liked or didn't like. So we had a great selling experience for nine years. You know, you talk about, was it 10,000 hours? Well, we had. We had 100,000 hours to get to where we were. We worked it. We packed it up the night before. We refilled the orders. We did wholesale retail. It was a great experience. I mean, we. So when we. We did finally were invited to come and do the. It's called the RJ Ace show, which is America's retail jewelers. They went to this craft fair and they said, you know, there's some interesting things being done here. We should bring them in. And so they brought us in and 10 other paid for our spaces, and we built our shops, and we were selling the mainstream. I mean, there's some crazy stories. There's one story of Sybil where Sax came by, these two. One dotty old lady with her glasses with powder on, and this very sophisticated, you know, chief of merchandising. She came with her. Sybil looked at them, and I was standing by, and she. She said, saks Are you allowed to use that name? She said, what do you mean? Well, is it. It's spelled the same way as, like Saks Fifth Avenue, but it just says Saks. She says, well, we are Saks Fifth Avenue. And I could just say, I mean, you, Dottie, the Dottie old lady with the powder on. On your glasses, you're actually, I'm the buyer of Saks Fifth Avenue. She said, well, in that case, can I. Can I just take your glasses for a moment and just wipe?

[Sybil Yerman]

I wiped her glasses.

[David Yerman]

She wiped her glasses. Now you could see the jewelry better.

[Carole Walton]

Did you get the order after that?

[David Yerman]

We did.

[Sybil Yerman]

We did.

[David Yerman]

We've got a big order. That was our first time on the main floor. We spent a couple of years up. Up in the boonies.

[Sybil Yerman]

But the second one, the second order she had somebody make copies of at a lesser price. Oh, yeah, Took our work and cut it up and sent it back and said, oh, it came broken. And she basically was putting us out of business to get a better price. And it was really quite something. So it taught us an incredible amount about dealing with big businesses. It wasn't about a craft fair. So you really had to have contracts and criterias. And David and I would work putting together authorized retailers, what they could. Agreements.

[David Yerman]

We never sold it after that. We never sold anyone without a authorized.

[Carole Walton]

Agreement contract, but that's kind of fraudulent. Did you deal with SACS again?

[Sybil Yerman]

Not for 10, actually, not 10 years. We didn't deal with them.

[David Yerman]

She would sometimes. We had a very small student studio on 48th Street. And sometimes she would be knocking on the door, and she just knocked. She pretty much walked across the street because in the same. A block away. And she said, I know you're in there. I know you're in there. I want you. What. What colors are you doing for the. We're doing a lot of beaded work, bead and pearl. And she said, what. What colors are you doing for the season? And I said, like, wouldn't you like to know? Get away. We're never selling you.

[Sybil Yerman]

And it wasn't until. It wasn't until Bert Tansky became the chairman of Saks Fifth Avenue. And he had left, I think Bergdorf, and he was at Saks. And he came and besieged us to do this.

[David Yerman]

We were making cable bracelets.

[Sybil Yerman]

And we said we would sell one store. And he said, no, you'll sell five. And we was, absolutely not.

[David Yerman]

I said, no way.

[Sybil Yerman]

We'll sell one store and you have to pay for it up front. And he was like, are you Guys, crazy. What's wrong with you? And we were just very, very direct with him.

[David Yerman]

So the best thing is that, you know, the situation is that the store has the power because they have the money. They think they can make you or break you.

[Sybil Yerman]

Bertansky said that to us when we didn't want to sell him.

[David Yerman]

He said, we're gonna make or break you.

[Sybil Yerman]

He said, you don't understand. I could make you.

[Carole Walton]

It's kind of brutal.

[David Yerman]

Oh, yeah, yeah. This is war. They go to war rooms. I don't know how he knew. Knew that we were doing very well selling these cable bracelets and most. And the only store was Neiman's as far as the specialty stores. We sold to a lot of jewelry, substantial jewelry stores and still selling the craft shops. And he knew these things were selling. He'd see them at parties and da, da, da, da. And he wanted in on the action. And I said, we just had really bad experiences. So we did sell two, and we did well, and then we sold, you.

[Sybil Yerman]

Know, 17 or whatever. Yeah, but he's become a friend to this day.

[David Yerman]

Yeah, actually, he was. He's difficult to deal with. And you know what? I said, we know your reputation. You're tough. But I'll put my wife up against you any day.

[Carole Walton]

I think I would, too.

[David Yerman]

Why? Because she's from the Bronx. You know, she's from the Bronx.

[Sybil Yerman]

He grew up on the same street, two houses away from me until he was, you know, maybe only two years old.

[Carole Walton]

That's funny. But you said you were selling the cable at that point, and I want you to tell me about that, because as you say in the book, the cable is the river that runs through everything we do. How did you come up with that, David?

[David Yerman]

Well, you know, actually, I was doing a lot of. I was doing pearls, I was doing cable. I found a mesh material which was incredibly beautiful. And one of the retailers, a really astute retailer, came by at one of the shows, and she looked into our showcases and she says, I don't know who you are. You have like four different. And you had bead and pearls, beautiful rubellite beads and pearls, very rich and whatnot. I don't know what to buy here. It's all so beautiful. I don't see. What are you. Who are you? I said, what are you talking about? You've known me for, like seven years. You buy my work. Yeah, this is different now. Now you're in the big leagues. What is. You gotta decide. So I'm gonna pass. I said, shit.

[Sybil Yerman]

To me.

[David Yerman]

She had nine beautiful stories. I went, oh, God.

[Sybil Yerman]

And I thought God sent her to us because I was of the mind that David really needed to focus on what he was doing.

[David Yerman]

So we took it seriously. I said, you know, there's a big message here. And we went off. I think we were in Fire island. And we also had a very astute friend who was from Harvard, and. And he's an artist, and he was somehow doing their fundraising. But anyway, he. He said, you really have to understand what you represent. And you have these five different looks. Pick one. I said, how about three? Hoping that we get two. He said, no, pick one. And the decision. I thought the. The mesh was the most beautiful, and we could do a lot of things with this beautiful mesh, and it was very unique. And it was only two machines that we knew that made this mesh, and no one else could do this, so we'd really have a lock. And Sybil said, I kind of like the cable. I think we can go with the cable that. The helix, a twist, and there's so many different things, and we could pick up from the Minoans and the Greeks, and, you know, you love that. And I said, I know.

[Sybil Yerman]

But we both had quite an education, both of us, in architecture and art and in history as well.

[David Yerman]

So our friend Peter. I simply didn't want to mention his name because no one knows. Peter.

[Sybil Yerman]

Peter.

[David Yerman]

Anyways. Peter Fabre. So Peter. And his wife was one of the auctioneers in Chrissy's. And so Peter said, let's pick one. And he said, I don't care which one you pick. And so we did. I thought we were in between the mesh and the cable. And I was gonna say, wouldn't you know that there was a triple tornado that ripped through Rhode island, where these two machines were in the Fulford Moore Building from 1893 and buried them under rubble.

[Carole Walton]

Oh, my God.

[Sybil Yerman]

And the machines were from the late 1800s, which was really interesting. And they're on. The particular product he's talking about is on the back cover of the book. I wanted to show it. So it's on the back cover. Oh, yeah, it's right there.

[David Yerman]

It isn't, but you could Venetian. But Venetian was a way of making. It looked like the mesh, but it was really cable. And I textured. You know, I'm very technical about that. I get into the machinery and how it's made. And, I mean, we make cable probably 120 different kinds of cable. We make cable that's flexible, that's twice as thin as anyone else's. Cable and about 50% harder, you know. So we're into the alchemy of metal and using machines. And I have a group of Italian geniuses in New Jersey that make all our cable.

[Carole Walton]

And so you decided at that point when you had to make this choice about what you focused on, and God made the choice.

[David Yerman]

The hurricanes and these tornadoes made the choice.

[Carole Walton]

Maybe that was Sybil kind of doing a rain dance outside.

[David Yerman]

It was. I had that thought was I was so for it. And then I, you know, I had made this during. Even before the machine fell out and we couldn't make mesh. I. I made this. I still wear the bracelet. It's simple wire, slightly twisted, very slight twist to it.

[Carole Walton]

Is that the first cable you made on your wrist?

[David Yerman]

Yeah, it really is. It's. And. And I made it. And I belong to a group of guys that we go riding horseback riding in the woods, the wilderness. Well, 43 years now, but this is early on. And they said, whoa, that's a nice bracelet. Why don't you make that for everyone on the ride? I said, there are 18 guys on this ride. And I don't think I'm really wanted to. But what I will do, I'll give it for an award. And there is an award that's given.

[Sybil Yerman]

For the best dressed cowboy.

[David Yerman]

I said, I'm gonna give it to the best dressed cowboy because you guys are really ragged, you know, I mean, you could. You could really dress up. So Wednesday is dress up. And here's the bracelet. Silver and 18 karat gold for best dressed on the ride. And I gave out about 12 of them. One ride I said says, okay, David Dust. My name's Dusty. Dusty, where is it? I said, as a matter of fact, no one gets it, you guys. It didn't make the stand. I'm sorry, what? This 10 gallon, 19 beaver hat, it doesn't make, is it? Nah, didn't work with the vest. It was clashing.

[Carole Walton]

So you came up with this design that basically you started a whole new thought process behind jewelry that was bridging fashion and fine. And so it was new. It was new for department stores. They didn't know how to cope with it really. Because it didn't fit anywhere, right?

[David Yerman]

No, in fact, that, you know, they didn't. It was silver, it was gold, and sometimes it. At one point, we invented this idea of putting diamonds into silver jewelry.

[Sybil Yerman]

And that was later, but they had to create just. I wanted to reiterate, this is what David was talking about when he first did this. They didn't have A department or a way to bill for it. So they had to create a department and give us a new number that was.

[David Yerman]

Yeah, that was in the splitting of cable into two areas where silver ice was so much business. In order to track it, you need to give it a business number in the department stores. But even before that, before that, they didn't know how to take in this jewelry that was both silver and gold and gemstones, semi, precious, whatever they called it back then. It was a category of. And the insistence to sign an agreement that you can only show it if we agree to show it in those locations and show it in a way that we felt was appropriate and put it in a place that we felt comfortable with and approved. And it was named. It had a name to it. David Yurman.

[Carole Walton]

But when you did the diamonds in silver, everyone thought you were crazy.

[David Yerman]

Yeah. They'll fall out. No, no. We did the vicar test and we knocked them around and we sent them out to be worn for six months before. And they just hold up just fine. And we also made a different alloy. We put a percent of platinum into the silver mix and made it a little bit harder.

[Carole Walton]

Did you set out both of you to create a whole new look in jewelry? Did you think there's a new genre here to be done in jewelry?

[Sybil Yerman]

Yes.

[David Yerman]

Yeah. I didn't set out for the business to be this size, this scale, but I definitely wanted us to be able to take a simple form like cable and to extend it as far as we could so it could have a feeling of the Renaissance. It could have the feeling of a Deco period. It could have a feeling where there was elements of nouveau. There was so many things that we could do with it. Kind of difficult to look at architecturally, super modern, but we were able to do that in a group called Pure Form. And the hypothesis was, here's cable. How many different ways can we dress it up? How many different ways can we change it? Can we do it in titanium? Can we use, instead of embedding onyx? Can we use forged carbon? How do we play with materials? Can we. Our son was amazing what he played with in the men's collection, which I think is brilliant. I can say that because it's Evan's collection and he totally does it on his own. I have just a brief pass. But they used forged carbon. They used meteorite, and then they used forged meteorites with little bits of meteorite from the working. He would put it in with a mix of platinum and gold and fuse it together so it has this wonderful mosaic look to it. But using a meteorite. I mean, it's from outer space. And putting it next to a dinosaur bone sliver. So you have this black, shiny, beautifully textured, silvery black. And you had this red, red and green bubbly material next to it, which is a dinosaur bone and meteorite. So this is crazy. I love it.

[Carole Walton]

But the other thing you disrupted was the way that. The advertising image. Because back in the day, I used to sit there and I never understood why brands showed their jewelry on women who were living a life that no one lived. They just looked like a cross between. They were going to Ascot races and a ball and something else. It was like, nobody lives this life. And your imagery was black, white, black and white. Peter Lindbergh soft. They looked like real women just on a walk, doing something normal in a sweater with a lovely piece of jewelry. Just one piece, not sort of dolled up. And I thought, why doesn't everyone do this? But that was. It was very groundbreaking.

[David Yerman]

You know, the groundbreaking part, I'm gonna let Sybil take this, because she was in the thick of it. That was her world, is that that was the kind of jewelry we were making jewelry for day. And sometimes it was day to night. You could. You could carry it through because the ring that you're wearing, the whole that black looks like black from here. That's. We could pave and it could sit in silver and it could be affordable. For me, that was home run, you know, that you could wear a diamond ring. And it was fun. It was just fun because the price allowed it to be so.

[Carole Walton]

Sybil, was that you working with Peter Lindbergh that came up with that idea?

[Sybil Yerman]

Yeah, I work with David Lippman and Peter. But the David Lippman, we went to him because we wanted to do advertising. And the advertising we were doing is in. Actually, we show it in the book. They're boxes, and in the box they're painted boxes that were built, and then in them are his product. David Lippmann brought in Peter Lindbergh, but we had gone to David through Conde and asked Tom Florio and Ron Galati had recommended using him, that he was. They would. He was very good at what he did, and he was kind of a newcomer on the scene also. So we met with him and he said, after he really thought about. And he said, I don't have any ideas that are different than what you're doing on jewelry. And he was working on Burberry at the time with Bruce Weber. He came to our house. We have a house In East Hampton, we live in a Japanese house, and, you know, the soji screens and the oil floors kind of thing. And he came just as I was coming out of the pool, and I was wrapped in a sarong, and I had jewelry on me, which I would wear in the water. And he looked at me, and my hair was all wild. And he looked at me and he said, you know, I didn't have any ideas. I was coming to tell you I couldn't do the campaign, but I just realized you're the idea. So I know what we have to do, and I'll do the campaign for you, but it'll take me a while to strategize it and put it all together. So he brought in women that he felt emulated, the feeling of how we approached jewelry and how I wore it and who it was really made for. So it was Amber Valletta, and she represented one type of gal, and eating a watermelon, doing something, you know, having some corn, whatever it was, she was different things. And then. And Kate Moss, who was more like myself, who was cheeky and playful and smart. This was about lifestyle and the ease and comfort. So the first shoots were family scenes. And on the table was a container of milk for the children, and there was a bottle of Chateau de Rothschild. It was about a family. That's who David loved designing for. And he really liked the interchanges with the individuals. So we weren't dealing with the movie stars. The movie stars were buying from us. They were buying from us. So David did things for gifting.

[Carole Walton]

But they were beautiful, really beautiful, and so sort of casual and relaxed and beautiful. They were amazing. I wanted to know how you work together as artists in the same space. How does it work? You're at the kitchen table. Are you fighting for space? Are you collaborating? Are you showing each other what you're working on at that moment?

[Sybil Yerman]

All of those things occur at different times, depending on our mood and how cranky one of us is.

[David Yerman]

She's speaking of me in code, by the way. Like every wife, she's very seldom cranky. I'm very often cranky. I just feel that, you know, that my breakfast is a private moment.

[Carole Walton]

No, but I want to know about your art, not your breakfast. Tell me about your art.

[Sybil Yerman]

So working together. David always says, like, David draws all the time. There's hundreds and hundreds and thousands of drawings. If you come. If you come to America and you come, I'd love to have you come to our offices where there's a room with, you know, I think six Locked doors and behind. Those are all drawings. We both draw. He does drawings and then he shows them to me. And I'll say, gee, I love this. I see what you're thinking about here, but I don't see how we can make it. What's the idea behind it? And he'll tell me and we'll talk about it, and then I will merchandise what he's looking at, what he's drawn, because there's so many things to choose from that anything is, you know, is a fair game. So someone said to me yesterday, you know, Sybil, the whole crew that you worked with, David Lippman and Peter Lindbergh, everybody, they said you were able to take thought and feeling and put it into words so they could translate it for you into a visual experience. And that was the objective. So when I look at a piece of jewelry, David will say, what do you think? And he wants me to edit it and to address what it is I'm looking at. And does it fit the criteria for the overall look and feel of what we do? The brand, as it's called, the brand or the collections. So that's what I do.

[Carole Walton]

And do you think it's possible for anyone today to start designing jewellery and create a brand like yours? Do you think that the. We live in such a different world now that anybody could not build it organically like you have?

[Sybil Yerman]

I don't know why not? One of the ideas behind doing the book was to give young people the faith to take a chance. I gave a talk recently and they wanted to talk, have me talk about branding and marketing. And it was like, wait, everyone, please. Will people please raise their hand who think they have something to market, that they have something that's a great idea that they'd really like to put their life behind. And no one raised their hand. So, okay, there's a difference. So there's a different subject we're going to talk about, and that's going to be about pursuing what your river that runs through you, that you're not giving the respect. Because you wouldn't have come to this talk if you didn't have an inkling that there was something that was touching you. So the objective for the book, for me, a good part of it, is to encourage people to pursue what touches them.

[Carole Walton]

I think what came across to me for young people is this the art and commerce that they should know about business. They have to have the skill. They have to have a skill, yes. And that they have to work unbelievably hard, like day and night.

[David Yerman]

Yes. I mean, it does take you over to a certain extent, but it's not that you're prisoner to it, it's that you get joy from it. So it's like we're in our early 80s and I, you know, with the exception of issue with a knee or whatever, I'm pretty active. My brain is working more. It's a little more structured. I keep a log. I read my log. Going to get me back on track to what I'm. What I'm thinking about design or. Or even just emotional. Just, you know, because it is an emotional thing. It's a feeling thing that jewelry is about. It's a collaborative thing. How do I get this message across to the people that I'm working with? How do I get them to buy into it and understand what. What I'm thinking about? I just don't show geometrics and say, okay, make this. I don't. I can do schematic drawings, but it's really why I'm thinking of this. What's the emotion behind it? What did Sybil. I kind of get to. By merging these two dissimilar collections over the last 45 years. We think these two things should come together. We should meld them together. Can you see what we're talking about? What would you do to extend it? Before, it was my way of the highway because I was a sculptor. My solitary moment, and I had people do my bidding. It changed within. Within 25 years. It's like I had to. To express what I wanted and have at least one or two, mostly Sybil, because Sybil was the editor of the collection. David is a great idea, but not now. What do you mean, not now?

[Carole Walton]

So you think you really. Without that partnership, the David Yurman brand wouldn't have worked. You needed the partnership.

[David Yerman]

I think for me, that's the main message. Do I care if someone picks up on what we wrote and says, I can do that, and they go off and they become wealthy, famous. I don't care about that. I care that the message is don't think that you can do everything yourself and think how wonderful it is and how dynamic it is, how difficult to do it in cooperation and to listen to the other someone else's point of view and don't give up yours, and that something else comes out of it. And in a certain way, you don't become the owner. You become one of the owners of a collaborative concept.

[Sybil Yerman]

And it's, you know, that was a love note.

[David Yerman]

No, it's. It was. It's Very difficult. I mean, I didn't learn that until last week. Last week.

[Carole Walton]

Breakfast. Does he give you jewelry?

[David Yerman]

Do I give you jewelry?

[Sybil Yerman]

On occasion, yes, on occasion.

[Carole Walton]

And what do you wear every day?

[Sybil Yerman]

I wear the same jewelry every day.

[Carole Walton]

Which is for about a year.

[David Yerman]

A year.

[Sybil Yerman]

I wear, I wear this bracelet, which is a flexible, a flexible sculpted cable bracelet that's very soft and sensuous and easy to wear and also becomes a necklace. And I tend to wear this, this ring, which is like a thimble ring. It's almost like a cigar band.

[Carole Walton]

Obviously have very comfortable pieces. They look comfy.

[Sybil Yerman]

Yeah, it's really comfy.

[David Yerman]

Yeah, it's one of the elements.

[Sybil Yerman]

Yeah, it's very, very comfortable.

[David Yerman]

We have to check that off. If it's not comfortable, it doesn't make the line.

[Carole Walton]

No wedding ring.

[Sybil Yerman]

No, no, I, I, he never gave me a. No, he gave me a wedding ring.

[David Yerman]

I did.

[Sybil Yerman]

He did.

[David Yerman]

He did.

[Sybil Yerman]

Well, we got, we got married. We decided after a while to get married. And it was like, oh, today's the last day we can do it, because you had to have blood tests then. So we woke up and I said, I guess it's either we do it or we just never do it because I'm never having my blood drawn again. Little did I know what would happen as I got older. You have to have the blood drawn all the time. So then what happened was we said, okay, we'll get married. We called and they said, okay, we can marry you tomorrow. And so I called my folks and they said, oh, sure. And we called some artist friends and we all went together. We were going to get married. And I said to David, we were at the elevator, we left work at 11 o'clock and we left to go get married. And I said, do you have, do you have the rings? And he said, no, do you? And I said, no. And he went, oh, my God. Okay. And he ran back inside and he quickly had two. He made two wedding rings, one with just one wrap of gold and one with two wraps of gold. And he wears the two wraps of gold. And someone took my ring years and years ago and I never replaced it. But I do wear various rings as kind of a wedding ring, but none of them were my wedding or they weren't given to me as wedding rings. So I never wear one.

[Carole Walton]

Well, I think he can knock you up another one. I think you should have pulled up another one.

[Sybil Yerman]

He always, he has one on.

[Carole Walton]

But really, I urge anyone to buy and read this book because it is fascinating about two creative lives together. This is not just a jewelry book. It is so much else. And it's really, really fascinating about both your mediums that you work in. And thank you so much for taking time to talk about your lives with us. Thank you so much, Sybil and David.

[Sybil Yerman]

We look forward to meeting you.

[Carole Walton]

Yes, I'm. I'm gonna come. I'm gonna take up that invitation when I come to New York, please. And you can. And then I'll take up another invitation when you're in London.

[David Yerman]

Yes.

[Sybil Yerman]

Very good. Take care, dear. Nice meeting you.

[Carole Walton]

Bye bye. And you. Thank you for listening. For this and other episodes of if Jules Could Talk, please go to our website, carolwalton.com podcasts and share it any way you can. And as Christmas is coming, do give us a comment rating or a star. Thank you for listening this year and for organically growing the if Jules Could Talk community. I know it's because you're listening, you're sharing, and you're talking to other people and that's the best way for us to grow. We had some great results back from Spotify the other day showing how it was. Our graph of listeners is just rising and rising and interestingly, the favorite episode according to Spotify is the genius of Rene Lalique and Art Nouveau. So if you haven't listened to that one yet, do go back into our back catalog and find it because obviously loads of other people have enjoyed it and it comes highly recommended. And don't forget the if Jules Could Talk book is out on Amazon. Good bookstores. If you're looking for a Christmas gift or a birthday gift, it makes a great present. There's something in it for everyone from Queen Cleopatra to Rihanna, from King Charles, the first to have Harry Styles. And all the topics that we talk about on the podcast are included. And join me again in two weeks for the next jewelled nugget, when in fact we'll have a special episode that was recorded in New York at a book launch given to me by Vajura. So we have a live audience there and we talk about the book and jewelry and Vajura and Elizabeth Taylor, of course. Course, we never leave her out. So join me then and in the meantime, wishing you all happy holidays. Thank you for listening and joining me and see you soon. Bye Bye. If Jules Could Talk with Carole Walton is produced by Natasha Cowan. Music and editing by Tim Thornton. Graphics by Scott Bentley. Illustration by Jordi Labander. You can find our sponsors at fully gemstones.com and [e-mail].