DAVID WEBB'S ZOOLOGICAL JEWELS

Summary

Episode Summary: DAVID WEBB'S ZOOLOGICAL JEWELS

Introduction to the Episode

In this compelling episode of "If Jewels Could Talk", host Carol Woolton delves deep into the vibrant world of David Webb, a quintessential American jeweler renowned for his distinctive carved enameled animal bracelets. Recorded on February 20, 2025, the episode features an insightful conversation with Levi Higgs, the archivist at David Webb, providing listeners with an intimate look into the legacy, artistry, and ongoing influence of the David Webb brand.

Exploring David Webb’s Artistic Legacy

Carol Woolton opens the discussion by situating listeners in the archives of David Webb, emphasizing the brand's commitment to treating jewelry as "great works of art" (03:07). She highlights David Webb's original style, particularly his carved enameled animal bracelets, which became iconic accessories for stylish women in the 1950s and 60s.

Levi Higgs echoes this sentiment, stating, "We're a house that's dedicated to design and boldness and color. And I think that really kinda elevates us among the highest echelon of jewelry as art" (02:49). This dedication underscores the brand's position in the fine jewelry market, where craftsmanship and artistic expression are paramount.

The Archive and Design Process

The heart of the episode revolves around the extensive archive of 40,000 drawings and designs maintained by David Webb. Carol marvels at the effort involved in managing such a vast collection, noting, "Jewelry should be treated as great works of art, which they surely are" (03:07). Levi explains the meticulous process of identifying authentic David Webb sketches: "He was sort of a colored pencil sketcher. He would just figure out like a very straightforward version of a drawing" (04:19), and the subsequent artist-rendered pieces that brought these designs to life.

The discussion also touches on the shift from traditional hand-rendered designs to modern CAD (Computer-Aided Design) techniques, with Levi lamenting the decline of hand-painted jewelry renderings: "Hand painting, a jewelry rendering, is kind of not done as prevalently as it was" (05:31).

David Webb’s Life and Early Influences

Carol and Levi explore David Webb's early life, tracing his roots back to North Carolina and his early influences in metalsmithing (05:31). Moving to New York at age 17 during World War II, Webb's ambition to pursue jewelry design rapidly paid off as he established David Webb Inc. in 1948. Levi attributes Webb's swift success to his innate talent and the pivotal support of Antoinette Coilleray, a French socialite who connected him with New York’s elite: "She was very, like, gregarious and out there. Someone named Topsy would be very fun" (07:02).

Influence of Art and Culture

David Webb's designs were heavily influenced by his passion for architecture, ancient cultures, and frequent visits to the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Carol observes, "You see a lot of Chinese influence. I see a lot of carved jade, which he was collecting... He was very fascinated by that" (10:24). These influences manifested in collections like Manhattan Minimalism, which drew inspiration from modernist architecture and the geometric landscapes of New York City.

Levi adds, "We have a collection called Manhattan Minimalism, specifically for that reason... the way the jewelry is styled is very relevant" (15:55), highlighting how David Webb seamlessly blended cultural motifs with contemporary design.

Iconic Collections and Signature Pieces

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on Webb’s animal-themed jewelry, particularly the zebra bracelets, which became a staple among his high-profile clients like Diana Vreeland and Gloria Vanderbilt. Levi notes, "The most produced animal bracelet was the zebra bracelet. Dana Vreeland had zebra earrings to match. We do a zebra ring as well. It’s our company logo" (17:16).

Another noteworthy collection discussed is the Rock Crystal line, admired by celebrities such as Marissa Berenson. Carol describes it as "modernist... very disco" (20:15), emphasizing the luminescent quality that made it suitable for the vibrant nightlife of the 1970s.

Authentication and Archival Responsibilities

As the archivist, Levi Higgs plays a crucial role in maintaining the integrity of the David Webb brand. He explains the authentication process for pieces brought in by clients or auction houses: "We have a record of pretty much every piece that's ever been produced... we set diamonds in a very particular way" (32:48). This meticulous documentation ensures that each piece's provenance and adherence to David Webb’s standards are thoroughly vetted.

Levi also shares insights into his daily responsibilities, which include researching historical pieces, organizing exhibitions, and writing about the brand's narrative to enhance the sales experience.

Revitalizing and Sustaining the Brand

Post-David Webb’s untimely death at age 50 due to pancreatic cancer, the brand underwent significant transitions. Levi recounts how the company survived under Nina Silberstein's leadership for over 30 years before being revitalized by current owners Robert Sadian and Mark Emanuel in 2009-2010. Their dedication to preserving the brand’s legacy while infusing it with contemporary relevance has led to a renaissance of David Webb jewelry.

Levi highlights the brand's strategy to avoid fast fashion pressures by focusing on timeless, individualistic designs: "We try to keep it very pointed what we choose to do and put out there... something new while still having the intense brand DNA" (31:38). This approach ensures that each new collection remains true to David Webb’s original vision while appealing to modern tastes.

Future Directions and Conclusion

Looking ahead, Levi discusses plans for expanding the brand’s reach through exhibitions and potentially digital archives: "We're thinking about other options... a roving version of an exhibition" (30:51). He also expresses optimism about the growing appreciation for design-centric jewelry, hoping that contemporary audiences will continue to value the intricate artistry of David Webb pieces.

Carol Woolton concludes the episode by inviting listeners to visit the newly updated website and explore the podcast's offerings, ensuring that the legacy of David Webb continues to sparkle in the hearts of jewelry enthusiasts worldwide.

Notable Quotes

• Levi Higgs: "Jewelry should be treated as great works of art, which they surely are." (03:07)
• Levi Higgs: "We're a house that's dedicated to design and boldness and color. And I think that really kinda elevates us among the highest echelon of jewelry as art." (02:49)
• Levi Higgs: "We do a lot of writing for the brand, like kind of conceptual things about narrative, about the brand history." (33:49)
• Levi Higgs: "I think it's nice to have a little bit of a viewpoint point with your jewelry." (36:49)

Timestamp Reference

• [02:19] - Introduction of Levi Higgs
• [03:07] - Jewelry as Art
• [04:19] - David Webb’s Drawing Style
• [05:31] - Shift to CAD Techniques
• [07:02] - Antoinette Coilleray's Influence
• [10:24] - Influence of Chinese Art
• [15:55] - Manhattan Minimalism Collection
• [17:16] - Zebra Bracelet as Logo
• [20:15] - Rock Crystal Collection
• [32:48] - Authentication Process
• [31:38] - Brand’s Strategy Against Fast Fashion
• [30:51] - Future Exhibitions
• [33:49] - Archival Work and Brand Narrative
• [36:49] - Appreciation of Design in Jewelry

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"If Jewels Could Talk with Carol Woolton" offers an enriching exploration of David Webb’s artistic journey, the meticulous preservation of his legacy, and the brand's enduring relevance in the ever-evolving world of jewelry design. Whether you're a jewelry aficionado or a history enthusiast, this episode is a treasure trove of insights and inspirations.

Transcript

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[Levi Higgs]

He was kind of a cheeky man in his day, when Kenneth J Lane was alive and making copies of David Webb jewelry all the time. All the time, all the time. There are some good quotes about, like, I thank him for the work he's doing to put out my aesthetic to kind of the masses, right? Because then more people will want David Webb Jewelry, which was true. And they kind of had like a frenemy situation.

[Carole Wilson]

I'm Carole Wilson, the voice of jewellery. Welcome to if Jules Could Talk. I'm an author and broadcaster and the woman who initiated the role of jewellery editor at magazines like Tatler and Vogue. This is a podcast for everyone, for people who do like jewellery, for people who don't realize they like jewellery, and anyone intrigued by fascinating facts, new ideas and forgotten histories. So join me as I tell sparkly tales and meet all sorts of people delving into four centuries of jewellery culture and investigate what's happening now. Welcome to Madison Avenue. We're in New York in the archives of David Webb, the quintessential American jeweller with a highly original style in modern jewellery. Best known for his distinctive carved enameled animal bracelets that any woman you could think of who was chic in the sort of 50s, 60s, wore one. He passed away aged just 50, very tragically. But after this loss, the company has continued producing jewels in keeping with his spirit, imagination and quality, using the archive of 40,000 drawings and design, which we are surrounded about today. We're above the flagship store and I am delighted to be here with Levi Higgs. Levi, thank you for hosting us.

[Levi Higgs]

Thank you for having me. This is great.

[Carole Wilson]

So Levi is the archivist at David Webb. I don't often get job envy, but I have to say, looking at this space and looking at what you look at all day is fabulous.

[Levi Higgs]

It's pretty amazing. I mean, it's a great place to be.

[Carole Wilson]

And you're a decorative art historian trained at Parsons. David Webb said jewelry, though more personal than painting, should be treated as great works of art, which they surely are. Now, with your training, Eva, I wondered what your views about that.

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah, no, that's kind of a big ethos for us here. I mean, we're such a house that's dedicated to design and boldness and color. And I think that really kind of elevates us among, you know, kind of the highest echelon of jewelry as art. And we love that quote. We always bring that quote up. So thank you for bringing it up.

[Carole Wilson]

And you see jewelry in the genre as works of art?

[Levi Higgs]

Definitely, I think so, yeah. I mean, it's the craftsmanship, the sort of reverence that people have for it really, I think puts it in that category. Yeah.

[Carole Wilson]

And he said, why not hang gems? In an article he wrote for the New York Herald Tribune. Do any of your clients do that? Did they take that to heart?

[Levi Higgs]

Well, you know, people sometimes display jewelry. If you're not wearing your brooch, you can put it in the box and have it out and people look at it when they come over. Sure, that can happen. Or hang a necklace on a bust or something.

[Carole Wilson]

I mean, they are beautiful. They shouldn't be locked away, should they? But unfortunately, people do keep them in vaults.

[Levi Higgs]

Right. And you know, we're a brand that has such scale as well, and sometimes that can make people afraid or not have like the courage to wear something big and bold. But the idea of bringing something out of the vault is really about like having the confidence to put it out there, wear it, be kind of a self awareness jewelry wearer, and put out your Persona through your jewelry. So that's kind of our ideal client like, mentality.

[Carole Wilson]

But even if they don't hang the actual jewels, the drawings of the jewels are surely works of art.

[Levi Higgs]

Right.

[Carole Wilson]

They're so beautiful. Did he draw himself?

[Levi Higgs]

He did. We know his hand and he worked on a very particular pad of paper that's like a certain size and a certain type of paper. So we can pretty readily identify. Oh, this is a David Webb sketch. He was sort of a colored pencil sketcher. He would just figure out like a very straightforward version of a drawing. And then he had artists that would do full color renderings that were on black and sort of hand painted and more fleshed out. So it was kind of a big production to his idea to final product.

[Carole Wilson]

Because you have a few framed here and clients must frame them and hang those.

[Levi Higgs]

We get asked that sometimes. Yeah, if we do special commissions, which we still do, sometimes clients want to like a copy of their original design. Of course we keep the originals in the archive just because that's kind of what we need to do. But yeah, we do consider the archive a crux of Artwork. I mean, it's such an American archive filled with jewelry renderings. That's kind of a lost art these days. I mean, so many people are cadding everything and which, you know, we love cad. We use CAD here. But hand painting, a jewelry rendering, is kind of not done as prevalently as it was.

[Carole Wilson]

So I wanted to talk a bit about his life. Can you tell us a bit about his early influences? He was born in North Carolina, wasn't he?

[Levi Higgs]

Right. He was a Southern gentleman. He had family members who made, like, souvenir ashtrays and were metalsmiths in some regard. Not quite jewelers, but they had some sort of handicraft. And he was involved at the Pinland School of Craft as well. Moved to New York very early in his age. He was, I think, 17 when he moved here. It was right around World War II.

[Carole Wilson]

And what did he move for?

[Levi Higgs]

Well, he wanted to pursue a career in jewelry. He had a lot of different ideas of things that he was interested in. And I think that sort of makes its way through his work later on. Like, he was interested in architecture. He was interested in ancient cultures. And we see that in some collections eventually. But, yeah, he came to New York to hit 47th street and find work and kind of find his sea legs as a jeweler.

[Carole Wilson]

So really, he wanted to be a jeweler from a very young age.

[Levi Higgs]

I think so, yeah.

[Carole Wilson]

And what was his first job on 47th Street?

[Levi Higgs]

In a workshop, I think. And then he eventually connected with the right people to be backers for David Webb Inc. And that started in 1948. So I think from 1942 to 1948, he was working.

[Carole Wilson]

But that's pretty quick.

[Levi Higgs]

Very quick. I mean, that's kind of proof of, like, New York City. Energy is like, you connect with the right people and you can rise very quickly.

[Carole Wilson]

But people wouldn't have backed him unless he showed an amazing promise. Something unique and original to back.

[Levi Higgs]

Right. He must have had work put out that was catching people's eye and obviously the right people's eye. He had a backer named Antoinette Coilleray. She was a French socialite, and she was definitely connecting him to the social set of New York.

[Carole Wilson]

Oh, that's quite helpful. Yes, exactly who you know.

[Levi Higgs]

And her nickname was Topsy. She was very, like, gregarious and out there. And, you know, someone named Topsy would be very fun. I think so.

[Carole Wilson]

So he met her socializing.

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah. I wish I knew exactly how or in what setting, but, you know, that's sort of one of those stories that's lost.

[Carole Wilson]

Okay. Was he very good looking, David Webb?

[Levi Higgs]

I think he was handsome. He was tall, he had blonde hair, glasses. We have a few photos of him. Not, not a ton. His insurance policy did not want him to be photographed, of course, Similar to Harry Winston. But yeah, there's, there's some great photos out there.

[Carole Wilson]

Because I'm wondering if he was picked up by her socializing. He must have had a presence, a personal presence.

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't. I mean, that's something I wish we had in the archive is like his personal voice. We don't have like a ton of letters or journals or anything like that, but everyone who knew him, who we get stories from occasionally, says that he was super fun, very jokey, very charming. I mean, that's the word, charming.

[Carole Wilson]

And that can get you a long way. Exactly. So shout out to anybody who's got a David Webb story or if they met him. We want to hear a parent met him.

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah, we have a lot of people come in and say, I was in love with David, David was in love with me. And we're like, okay, can you.

[Carole Wilson]

So he obviously charmed the ladies. He charmed the ladies.

[Levi Higgs]

That's good.

[Carole Wilson]

You sort of referenced this a minute ago, that he was very highly cultured.

[Levi Higgs]

Yes, I think so. I mean, for being self taught and from, you know, not a major metropolitan city, he definitely immersed himself in the social set of New York and, you know, starting the company in 1948, 1950, he's already landing jewelry on the COVID of Vogue. Like that is a swift ascent.

[Carole Wilson]

And thus does he charm Diana Vreeland, perhaps.

[Levi Higgs]

I mean, she wasn't at Vogue at that time, I don't think. But he knew other editors who, you know, connected him. He educated himself, he cultured himself on going to the Met all the time, collecting books, going antique shopping, and just the people, the clients that he had probably helped educate him.

[Carole Wilson]

And looking around the archive, I can see a book on all sorts of decorative arts. Different periods. It was everything. It was Chinese decorative arts, Regency furniture, gardening books. I mean, moments in history, different periods of history. It was a really wide interest, wasn't it?

[Levi Higgs]

Definitely, yeah. And I think that's kind of what makes it such a uniquely American viewpoint as a brand is everything that he took in, he amalgamated and turned into something new. And that's kind of the idea of a melting pot nation. Like that's what America is. I think so, yeah. I, I think that comes through in the designs. It's, it's everything that he was fascinated in and interested in. And how could he. How could he turn it into sort of a modern vision through the lens of the 60s, 70s, 50s, 60s, 70s.

[Carole Wilson]

Really? Yeah. That's very interesting because in. In the book that you published, what, two years ago, was it the book David Webb?

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah, we have two books. We have one from 2013 that's sort of the monograph. And then one, I think, in 2023. Yeah. Last. Last fall, it was the Art of David Webb.

[Carole Wilson]

Yes. And in that it showed his interest in the Scythian period. Scythian art. And showed how that the influence of a 6th century BCE piece of Scythian goldsmithing came out in a dragon brooch designed in the 60s.

[Levi Higgs]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Carole Wilson]

But there was a sort of a reference point that you could sort of see visually, which is amazing. I mean, do you think he had a particular period that he was fascinated by?

[Levi Higgs]

I mean, the thing that immediately sticks out to me is the jade period. That's sort of early 70s. Nixon's going to China. A lot of fashion editorial spreads are like silks and kind of Asian inspired fashion. So I see a lot of Chinese influence. I see a lot of carved jade, which he was collecting from antique shops and buying in bulk, which we still. We have a stone room upstairs that has antique jade that he bought personally.

[Carole Wilson]

Can we have a peek in that base? Absolutely, absolutely.

[Levi Higgs]

So, yeah, I think that's a huge moment for him. Yeah.

[Carole Wilson]

So Chinese art was a big trigger for him.

[Levi Higgs]

Sure, yeah.

[Carole Wilson]

And how did he live? Did he have all of this around him at home?

[Levi Higgs]

He did. There's one article in vogue in the 60s that talks about sort of his bachelor pad aesthetic. And it was very green, it was garden forward, like a conservatory in his Manhattan townhouse. He had zebra skin rugs. And it was. It was very kind of a groovy bachelor pad. I think he had a lot of Chinese art as well, like vases and things like that. I wish. I wish we had more of a catalog of his things. I mean, he passed away in 1875.

[Carole Wilson]

So he was only 50.

[Levi Higgs]

He was only 50 years old. He had pancreatic cancer. Super sudden.

[Carole Wilson]

So sad, because he probably would have. There would have been more after that. He would have done different interviews and you would have had a bit more information.

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah.

[Carole Wilson]

But obviously a very strong aesthetic. Very strong that he created. It was original, just taking, absorbing and then creating something new. Kind of amazing. And then you said he went to the Met Museum a lot. I mean, I read something that he went every day for a little walk around the Met.

[Levi Higgs]

Maybe not every day, but probably very often. I mean, the books alone that he had sort of speak to all the different interest points. I would love to, like, have a timeline of Met exhibitions and kind of line them up with, you know, the chronology of works that are coming out of here. And if there were any connections, that would be, you know, something I would love to spend time researching and doing. But, yeah, he. You know, he lived in the Upper east side. The Met's right there, so it makes sense.

[Carole Wilson]

Yeah, yeah. And there's so much to see. You have to take it in small, small bits, don't you? But he was particularly interested in gold objects as well, wasn't he? From the Incas? Egyptian.

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah. Yeah. All those really sort of nuggety gold aesthetics from different cultures he was fascinated by, I think. I mean, you see, our textured gold is kind of a hallmark of the brand, and it definitely connects to cultures gone by.

[Carole Wilson]

So he tried to recreate that ancient patina?

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah, I think so. With a modern lilt to it. Yeah.

[Carole Wilson]

And did he come up with new alloys to create that Look?

[Levi Higgs]

Not sure about alloys. I mean, we do have a nice.

[Carole Wilson]

Different techniques to create that.

[Levi Higgs]

Sure. I mean, we have, like, 39 different textures of gold that we're able to do. We have all these different chisels, different sizes.

[Carole Wilson]

You know, 39 is a lot.

[Levi Higgs]

39. It's a lot. I mean, some textures are tighter, some textures are kind of long strands. They can be very kind of bulbous looking, like. It just totally depends on the technique that we want to execute, whether it needs to look like rope or rock or what have you. But that's kind of the skill of the craftsmen upstairs. They're able to do all these different cold techniques. Yeah.

[Carole Wilson]

And how many craftsmen on the premises in the workshop?

[Levi Higgs]

About 20, I think.

[Carole Wilson]

20. This must be one of the only places on the Upper east side with the workshop, I mean, in situ.

[Levi Higgs]

To have our boutique archive and workshop all under one roof is kind of unheard of. I don't think there's another workshop on Madison Avenue that I'm aware of. Yeah. It's a total luxury to be able to just walk through the whole house and, you know, see what's new, see what's coming out of the workshop, what's fresh, or bring a client through on a tour. We do that quite often.

[Carole Wilson]

Yeah. Totally unique. We don't have that really, in London either, right?

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah.

[Carole Wilson]

On Bond Street. Not at all. So the absolute extremes of interest as well, going from the Incas to the urban Environment that was a great inspiration. Wasn't. Wasn't New York itself as kind of muse to him?

[Levi Higgs]

Totally. There's definitely a swath of designs that are very geometric, very architectural that feels. Feel like Bauhaus, you know, sheets of glass and concrete, and it feels like the city. Like we. We have a collection called Manhattan Minimalism, specifically for that reason. There's a great photo, like, where David Webb is situated on Madison Avenue is right across the street from the Breuer Building, which used to be the Whitney, then the Frick, and then the. The Met. Modern. Like, it's been all these different museums. It's soon to be Sotheby's, but anyway, there's a great photo of Jackie Kennedy at the opening of that museum in the 60s. This brutalist, you know, clunky building that everyone loves. And she's wearing this houndstooth coat. And to me, that's like black and white patterning, which we see so much in David Webb's work. Geometric design, geometric kind of abstraction. So I think there was quite a moment going on is what I'm saying, in the city. Kind of the zeitgeist of modernism. And we'll see that through.

[Carole Wilson]

Yeah, the jewelry and the cross streets for the museum. Yes, that geometric layout of the city, the grid.

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah, definitely.

[Carole Wilson]

Were there particular women you talk about Jackie Kennedy? Were there women that he was quite inspired by and designing for?

[Levi Higgs]

The archive has boxes and boxes and boxes with special client commissions. Jackie Kennedy, Elizabeth Taylor, Diane von Furstenberg, Vanderbilts, Rockefellers, you name it. 20th century names. They're in these boxes. Definitely. Yeah.

[Carole Wilson]

What would they buy? The animals or.

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah, I mean, people love the animals. That's. He. He won a Cody Award in 1964, which is kind of like a CFD award these days. It's like a big fashion award. And the award was specifically for his animal jewelry. Gloria Vanderbilt presented him with his award and. Yeah, so that was very much like, kind of in the public eye of like, this is what David Webb does. Well, among many other things, but the animals he was very much known for. So, yeah, every. Every big client that we go through their. Their invoices, we see animals whether. Whether they like other things as well.

[Carole Wilson]

Exactly. But they all had to have an animal.

[Levi Higgs]

They all had to have.

[Carole Wilson]

So Diana Vreeland had a zebra.

[Levi Higgs]

Zebra.

[Carole Wilson]

Was that David's favorite animal, the zebra?

[Levi Higgs]

It was definitely the most popular. Definitely the most produced animal bracelet was the zebra bracelet. Dana Vreeland had zebra earrings to match. We do a zebra ring as well. It's it's our company logo. So it's definitely.

[Carole Wilson]

So it's all enameled?

[Levi Higgs]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Carole Wilson]

So his animals weren't. They weren't made to be demure animals, were they? It was all about power.

[Levi Higgs]

Right.

[Carole Wilson]

Passion and power.

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah, we, I, I struggle with this constantly. There's a book we have in the archive called the Big Book of Wild Animals, which is sort of this children's book from the 50s. And I don't think that our animals are like comical or cartoony or fairy tale. I think our animals are this great sort of illustrative style, and it's really kind of indicative from this book, from the Big Book of Wild Animals there. They almost look like they'd be painted on a mural in a natural science museum, a natural history museum.

[Carole Wilson]

So an artistic take on the animal. Yeah, more than a literal.

[Levi Higgs]

Right. Like, there's obviously some artistic interpretation, but it's not like animals wearing suit coats and Mother Goose kind of style of jewelry. It's a little refined, I think.

[Carole Wilson]

And was he a stickler for how they were presented in depicting the animals coat, I. E. The black and white stripes of the zebra or the spots of the big cats?

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah, I think. I think he was able to conceptualize how these coats and pelts would look through new materials or materials that he was reviving. Right. So, like, enamel really hadn't been used since probably the 1920s in jewelry prevalently. I mean, we see Schlumberger using it at Tiffany, David Webb's using it.

[Carole Wilson]

Jean Toussaint, the Big cat.

[Levi Higgs]

Sure.

[Carole Wilson]

Was that an inspiration?

[Levi Higgs]

Sure, sure. He loved Cartier and Toussaint's work. He idolized think a little bit. Yeah. There's a quote that, of course, I'm not going to be able to recall word for word right now, but he does mention her by name as someone he. That all jewelers at this time in the 1670s looked up to. But where I was going with that is you see like the gold backing of a piece and then the enamel spots of a leopard. Like, it all kind of really fits in with the actual colors of what a leopard would look like, like the, the rich gold, the. The black enamel. So, yeah, it's interesting to see how he uses a revival of enamel to create these animals.

[Carole Wilson]

And did he travel? Did he go to Africa? Did he see animals in the wild?

[Levi Higgs]

I don't know if he ever went to Africa. I would love to know that. We have one newspaper article that talks about rock crystal specifically, and he was at a party and he was talking to Gloria Vanderbilt. And she was wearing, like a 1920s rock crystal necklace and they were talking about how great rock crystal was as a material. And then the article goes on to say that the next day David Webb was boarding a flight to Australia and he was sketching rock crystal designs the whole way. So, yes, he traveled. Yes. He was constantly, like, thinking of ideas. I love the, like, jet set idea of him on a plane sketching.

[Carole Wilson]

It's so nice, isn't it? And rock crystal. I have one on my finger today, which I bought years ago in London, because he really created. Rock crystal's been used in jewellery forever from the Romans. But he created a very modernist take on it, didn't he? Chunky. And setting it with diamonds, it's very disco to me.

[Levi Higgs]

It's very, like, luminous in a way that would work in a nightclub very well. So that's kind of how I think of it. The forms are very voluminous. I think they're tall rings, they're curving cuffs, they do all this kind of undulation that I think is very 70s.

[Carole Wilson]

And who else wore the rock crystal?

[Levi Higgs]

Marissa Berenson had a big rock crystal ring and there's some great photos of her out and about in a plunging dress with. With rock crystal, Maltese cross and I think a cuff and. Yeah, she had a great ring with black enamel straps and a big diamond in the middle and rock crystal fluting.

[Carole Wilson]

Lucky her. So she's probably still got that.

[Levi Higgs]

Probably still got it. There's a drawing right there on the wall behind you.

[Carole Wilson]

Amazing. Yes. It does really, really resonate with that era, doesn't it? Is that something hard you find now from the archives, to make that look relevant for now?

[Levi Higgs]

No, I don't think it's hard, actually. I think people have a preconceived notion that big jewelry is like granny jewelry, and that is so wrong. And it is flipped on its head very quickly when you put it on a person who's thinking that, you know, you put a big cuff on someone who says, oh, no, that's too big for me. I don't think I could ever wear it. The second it closes on their wrist, they're like, oh, hold on, I like how this feels. I like how it looks. Maybe it's not right for everyone. That's fair. But I do think there's kind of a renaissance of jewelry that's very individual jewelry that positions you as a taste maker, you know, of your own accord. You're wearing jewelry that's emblematic to yourself. You're creating this, like, iconography. Of how you look and how you want to present yourself. And David Webb's a great brand that does that for people. It's. It's individual design that lets women or any client, like, know how they want to talk about themselves and present themselves. So I think that is connecting with younger audiences. Yes. And we strive to have all of our ad campaigns really show kind of the breadth of the designs and how you could wear it casually in a fancy setting as well. So I actively fight that is what I'm saying.

[Carole Wilson]

You think it can just go with any era, any fashion, it will find its place. And it's all about the woman, how she chooses it and wears it.

[Levi Higgs]

Right. And it's timeless design. I mean, the 60s and 70s aesthetic is kind of always relevant, I find in some way. Like you flip through a magazine.

[Carole Wilson]

Well, it's modern. Exactly. It always looks modern.

[Levi Higgs]

That's it.

[Carole Wilson]

Because it's sort of encapsulating that moment where everything changed.

[Levi Higgs]

Right. We. We look through all of our tear sheets from magazines from the 60s and 70s, and we're constantly saying, okay, we want to do a campaign that references this. And all we have to do is tweak one or two things. You know, maybe the hair is different, maybe the makeup's a little different, but the fashions are still very relevant. The way the jewelry is styled is very relevant. So I find a lot of through lines, through fashion editorial here.

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[Carole Wilson]

And how do you choose from the 40,000 designs that you have? How do you choose which to action and recreate and bring back?

[Levi Higgs]

I mean, you know, we have a creative director who's one of our owners. His name is Mark Emanuel, and he'll come up with kind of the guiding idea of what is going to be new for a season or something. And he'll come to me and say it, you know, I'm making this up. Oh, let's do a butterfly collection. And I'll sort of present him with, okay, here's the 300 great butterfly designs we have. You know, maybe these 25 are ones I really like, and we'll sort of talk about them and then like a collection kind of develop that way.

[Carole Wilson]

And where does Mark get his ideas? Just out and about. The feeling.

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah. He's so immersed in the jewelry world himself, and he really cares about the brand and knows what's in the archive just as well as I do. So, yeah, I think he sees the potential to. There's so many designs here that also have never been produced in the archive. You talk about the 40,000. I mean, I don't even know if that number is right. It could be a hundred thousand. Yeah. I mean, there's so many drawings here, most of which have been scanned, but some of which haven't. So one day when everything is digitized, we'll look at the number and be like, oh, this is the number.

[Carole Wilson]

You'll keep me posted on that?

[Levi Higgs]

Exactly. It's an ever evolving number. I'll say.

[Carole Wilson]

So then they'll come and. And he'll say, like butterflies. You bring out all the butterfly designs.

[Levi Higgs]

Right.

[Carole Wilson]

Then you choose a couple to work on. Yeah.

[Levi Higgs]

We'll say, oh, this one would look great as earrings, and maybe this is the brooch. And we could, you know, tesserae these to make a necklace or whatever. We just kind of see what works.

[Carole Wilson]

It's a sort of group collective, right?

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah.

[Carole Wilson]

Discussion. So he was very prolific.

[Levi Higgs]

Definitely. That's.

[Carole Wilson]

I mean, he must have been working all the time.

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah. The stories of him, like, of David Webb leaving the store and getting halfway home and coming back because he had an idea he just had to get out and down on paper. So that. That rings true. I mean, all the drawings here really speak to that.

[Carole Wilson]

And how interesting that there are a few there as sort of sleepers who've never been made at all.

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah, More than a few, for sure. If I had an array of drawings out, it'd probably be about 50. 50 of things that have been produced and things that haven't. So that's.

[Carole Wilson]

That's really exciting.

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah. It's the wealth of the mine here to go through it and. Yeah. Pull out new, quote, unquote, new ideas that are original David Webb designs.

[Carole Wilson]

Yeah. And all the stones you buy from, are you buying them in New York or different places?

[Levi Higgs]

I would say mostly in New York. I'm not super well informed on where we get the stones. We do have a great stone archive. I mean, among other. Yes, we have jade that David Webb collected, but we also have coral and other hard stones, lapis, turquoise. That's Hard to get these days. You know, if we need something specific, if we need 25 rubies to fill out something, yes, we'll source them and get them anew. But a lot of what we need or use, we already have.

[Carole Wilson]

That's what I think of when I see David Webb. The coral and turquoise is summer. Yes, I think it's summer when I look at David Webb.

[Levi Higgs]

Yes.

[Carole Wilson]

Joyful and uplifting.

[Levi Higgs]

Yes.

[Carole Wilson]

And he had. You referenced Jackie Kennedy. He had a close relationship. He became quite important at that moment, didn't he, as the American jeweler that the presidential. The White House wanted to present him as that.

[Levi Higgs]

Right. So Jackie was a personal client, but she was also inspired by going to the Smithsonian, seeing the gems and minerals on display. She loved the idea of sort of a mineral specimen as an object. And she wanted an American jeweler to take minerals native to North America and create desk objects or gifts of state for visiting dignitaries. So that happened in the early 60s during the Kennedy administration. We have some documentation from the White House, like the Office of Protocol thanking us for giving XYZ gift.

[Carole Wilson]

So these were objects?

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah, they were sort of desk objects like paperweights or some of them are clocks, some of them are boxes. They can be sort of different things. And then in 1966, David Web recreated a lot of those one of a kind objects for to make two of a kind. And he sold them as a benefit for the Hospital for Special Surgery. And Jackie Kennedy and the Duchess of Windsor sort of paired to chair this event. So there's a lot of documentation about the second pieces that were made.

[Carole Wilson]

And the good they did.

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah, and the good they did. Exactly. And a lot of those pieces that weren't the original Gifts estate, but the copies from 1966 we have in our museum collection. So there's a drawing on the wall back there too that says Kennedy with this rocky looking object. We have that one upstairs and we, whenever they come up for auction, we try to nab them. I mean, they're very special pieces.

[Carole Wilson]

So, I mean, I was in Palm beach earlier in the year and there's so much estate. David Webb there. I mean, do you. You try and buy back special pieces?

[Levi Higgs]

We do. Historically, we had a store in Palm beach when David Webb was alive. Not anymore, but yeah, that's a big client base for us.

[Carole Wilson]

Is Palm beach was the original boutique on Madison.

[Levi Higgs]

It was not. It was on 50 57th Street, I think. I mean, it moved around a little bit. But the, the main one during his lifetime is 57th street, sort of close to Burgdorf's and then it was on Park Avenue and then it was lower on Madison. A few different locations on Madison. And we've only been in this location for 12, 13 years.

[Carole Wilson]

Because I suppose in that time maybe not on the Upper east side, but 57, that there's been so many changes, right?

[Levi Higgs]

Yes. I think the building it was originally in was torn down 10 years ago, maybe. I watched it happen. It was sad.

[Carole Wilson]

I mean, I guess it must be increasingly hard to keep a boutique and workshop in the heart of the city.

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah, I mean, you know, we're in this historic bank building and the Apple Store is sort of nestled in amongst us and they wanted the entire space when they came in. We were here first and we were like, there's no way we can be displaced. Like, we need all this space for the workshop, the archive, the boutique. So, yeah, we're holding on to this location as dearly as possible.

[Carole Wilson]

Yes. Because you need to be in the heart of what inspired him so much.

[Levi Higgs]

Right.

[Carole Wilson]

Do you think Mark would ever want to get to the point where he added to the collection, to the designs? Would he want to be inspired himself or you, Levi, and create something new in homage to David Webb?

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah, I mean, we sort of do that now. It's. It's the fine line of like, how can we create something new while still having like the intense brand DNA that we know everything should have. We did a collection a few years ago called Asheville. A nod to where disposed from. Yes. And it was a very floral collection, very enamel forward collection. And pretty much every piece that was produced was a quote unquote new piece, not something that had existed before, but maybe there was a link to the necklace that was taken from this sketch and the flower here was from this drawing. So it was kind of brought to life through what existed, but it was brand new. Yeah. And that was the narrative of the collection as well. So that's kind of what we needed to do as a heritage brand, to be like we're doing something new. But it's based firmly in what we have done. You know, we did an exhibition in 2022 two that was slated for 2020 and of course it had to be pushed a few years. So I would like to do more exhibitions. I'm sort of thinking about what could.

[Carole Wilson]

Be next and where would you do that?

[Levi Higgs]

Well, our first one was here on our premises here. It was our first in house exhibition. And I don't know, I mean, I don't want to give too much away, but we're we're thinking about other options.

[Carole Wilson]

In the UK or the US in the US in the US Keep it on home turf.

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah, I think so.

[Carole Wilson]

Yeah.

[Levi Higgs]

I mean, I would love for things to be able to travel or have some sort of roving version of an exhibition, but we haven't gotten there yet. And this is just from an archival standpoint of projects that I'm thinking about for the next few years. Yeah.

[Carole Wilson]

And a new collection.

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah. I mean, a lot of what we've done recently has been focusing on great one of a kind pieces, and we're not even so married to new collections every year or, you know, they kind of come to us when they come to. To us.

[Carole Wilson]

So just as. And when. Yeah, you don't have to pressure yourselves because that's something that's changed so much in the last 15 years that the jewelry brands are on this sort of fast fashion. Yeah.

[Levi Higgs]

When. When you have to, like, hold yourself to the, you know, hold the iron to the fire to like, meet these arbitrary deadlines or. Or seasonal changes, then it's sort of like everyone just moves on too quickly to be like, oh, did anyone even care about, you know, this thing we did? So we try to keep it very pointed what we choose to do and put out there. If people have to wait a few years for things, that's all the better for us. Then they're excited about it when it's new.

[Carole Wilson]

Now. I'd love to know. Levi, I think people would be very interested to know what you do as an archivist.

[Levi Higgs]

Sure. Yeah.

[Carole Wilson]

And what. What's a day in the life of an archivist? What does that entail?

[Levi Higgs]

So it's a lot of research. I do authentications for the company. So anytime someone brings either a private client or Sotheby's or Christie's or a big auction house or something, people bring in a lot of pieces to have authenticated. So I sort of forensically go through what makes a piece a David Webb piece, and I talk with our former.

[Carole Wilson]

And what does make a David Webb piece?

[Levi Higgs]

Great question. I mean, I. We have a record of pretty much every piece that's ever been produced. We have all these things we call style cards that are kind of recipe cards for how to make something.

[Carole Wilson]

And so what would be on the recipe?

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah, it would have the original date of production. It would have a picture of the piece. It would have how many times it was purchased and created. It would have diamond weights, diamond counts, or other stone weights. So we can really kind of check something against the record to be like, is this made the way that it says it should be made? We have all these things that we know we do. Like we make screws a very particular way. We set diamonds a very particular way. I can research a piece in the archive with the material and records that are here and then go upstairs to the foreman, who has also been here a long time. We have jewelers that their fathers worked here. They've worked here since the 60s, 70s. So we have that kind of collective memory. Right. As a company based on everything that's kind of pooled together for an authentication, we can be like, yes, this is a David Webb piece.

[Carole Wilson]

So that takes quite a bit of time.

[Levi Higgs]

It does, it does.

[Carole Wilson]

So you do the authentication, you do research?

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah, I do a lot of writing for the brand, like kind of conceptual things about narrative, about the brand history. You know, if a client is asking about a piece, I'll do sort of a little write up about, oh, this was made in 1973 and it was in vogue in this year and someone wore it on a red carpet just to kind of help give a salesperson more information to tell someone about why a piece is interesting or what makes it unique. I do a lot of tours, so clients come to the archive to have tours, take them through the workshop, take them through, you know, the boutique. That's kind of a nice experiential thing we do. I would love to have more time to work on projects that aren't necessarily have a timeline. There's so many things I wish I had time to go to the New York Public Library and look through editorials or see things that we don't have here that maybe we should.

[Carole Wilson]

Things like that cross the net wider.

[Levi Higgs]

Yeah. Just kind of know. Did David Webb ever do a radio interview? I don't think so, but I also haven't spent like time looking for one. So maybe it's out there, but I don't know.

[Carole Wilson]

He definitely would have done a podcast, right?

[Levi Higgs]

He would have done this podcast. You're right. You're right. Yeah.

[Carole Wilson]

And what do you think he would have thought in the way women wear jewelry now because it's such a different, you know, the style now compared to when he was creating these styles. What do you think he would have thought?

[Levi Higgs]

He was kind of a cheeky man. So he probably would have had like a barb about it to say in his day, when Kenneth J. Lane was alive and making copies of David Webb jewelry all the time.

[Carole Wilson]

All the time.

[Levi Higgs]

All the time. There were some good quotes about like, I thank him for the work he's doing to put out my aesthetic to kind of the masses. Right. Because then more people will want David Webb jewelry, which was true. And they kind of had, like, a frenemy situation going. So it probably would be a comment similar to that of, like, walking into J. Crew and seeing a knockoff David Webb piece or something, you know, and making J. Crew up. But, like, the design of David Webb does kind of trickle down into a lot of other things. So.

[Carole Wilson]

Yes. So he would keep his eye on.

[Levi Higgs]

That maybe a little bit. He would be aware of what. What's going on out there.

[Carole Wilson]

But would he have thought, actually, now my work should be warmer Jeans.

[Levi Higgs]

Yes, he definitely would. Yes. Big gold cuffs and pair of jeans. Sounds great to me. White T shirt. Yeah. Very casual. Going to the grocery store, you know.

[Carole Wilson]

Yeah. Kenny J. Lane, he was. You couldn't help but love him.

[Levi Higgs]

Right.

[Carole Wilson]

And he was the first person to admit that he was, you know, taking his inspiration from other people. I mean, if you hear chitter chatter in the background, it's because we are actually above the store and people are coming in.

[Levi Higgs]

That's what we want. We do want that.

[Carole Wilson]

So do you think people are more appreciative of design now? Because there was a moment where people were just buying big rocks and the stones dominated. Do you think now people have returned to really appreciating design?

[Levi Higgs]

I hope so. I mean, you know, I look at auctions all the time. I'm kind of like, tracking those trends, and I feel like the pieces that sell and do well or I think the pieces that are interesting, that have a historical component or a design element that's interesting, it's not just like the giant D flawless diamonds. And people are constantly looking for ways to reset those stones or do something unique with them. So I hope we're kind of entering a period of, like, very individual style that's dominating what people wear. It's not just your ice skating rink diamond that you're flashing around, which is fine, which is great. I'm not bashing that at all. But I think it's nice to have a little bit of a viewpoint point with your jewelry. Yeah.

[Carole Wilson]

And I noticed actually one of the early designs, which is a screw, a sort of hardware screw in gold that twists the nail. Did Aldo Chipullo work here?

[Levi Higgs]

Yes. Yes. So it's a collection from the early 70s. Aldo Chipullo started his career at David Webb before he went to Tiffany and Cartier.

[Carole Wilson]

Yes. Who did just un clou at Cartier? You. So he cut his teeth Creating the nail piece here first.

[Levi Higgs]

There's a new book from a few years ago that's about Aldo Chipoulo, and there's a great photo of him and David Webb together. And I think they're at Tiffany. I need to read the caption again. But it was a photo I hadn't seen until this book came out. So that was interesting that they remained friends even after his period working at David Webb. But yeah.

[Carole Wilson]

And have you made that recently, the nail collection?

[Levi Higgs]

Yes. Yeah. It's sort of a great collection that's kind of always in production for us. It's kind of a entry point, price point for us, just being a gold cuff or a gold nail. We make it, of course, with diamonds as well. But, yeah, it's a really important collection for us.

[Carole Wilson]

Yeah. And what would you say the other most important collection is?

[Levi Higgs]

I think if someone were to, you know, curate the perfect collection of David Webb? They need something with hammered gold, they need something with enamel, and they need something with carved hearthstone. Those are kind of our big three pillars of things we do well. And whether the hearthstone is rock crystal or lapis or turquoise or whatever, it kind of falls into those three buckets.

[Carole Wilson]

I think after his death, I mean, the brand did sort of languish for a while, didn't it? And it, you know, had some difficult moments. How do you build a brand back? Because obviously you need a lot of money behind you to do that.

[Levi Higgs]

We're super lucky that the brand never closed after his death. So he died in 1975. Nina Silberstein, who had worked with David Webb, her and her family took over and she was, you know, they. They ran it for 30 plus years. And then the current owners took over in 2009, 2010. Robert Sadian and Mark Emanuel are the current owners. And they were two people from 47 industry, kind of an estate jewelry background. And they saw the potential. Right. They knew that this was a kind of a giant of a name of a company. And because the company didn't have 10 versions of itself, it only had two or three versions of itself, they were getting it on the third version. There was not a lot of loss. There were. The archives were here. They were. They were messy, they were disorganized. And we had to go through and put everything in the way that you see it now. But, like, all the intellectual property was here, here, the molds were here. A lot of the jewelers were still around. So it was pretty well preserved as a brand from that period where we didn't have to create things from scratch. We had all the ip, basically. Very lucky. And. And Mark and Robert saw the vision of, like, hiring people like me to, you know, help maintain that. And. And that's what we've done for the last 12, 13 years of, like, kind of revitalizing, making a David Webb renaissance of getting back to the great original vision.

[Carole Wilson]

Well, you've done a great job.

[Levi Higgs]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Carole Wilson]

And do you feel. Do you feel his. His ghost around you? Do you feel he's there sort of saying, yeah, good job, Levi?

[Levi Higgs]

I mean, we. We often joke about, oh, we should have a seance and see what David Webb thinks about this. Yeah. I mean, I hope that we are continuing to put out a brand that I think is very unique into the marketplace and make it as prevalent as it's able to be without diluting anything, without compromising anything. All of our jewelry is made here in America on Madison Avenue, and we. I don't know, I just think we're. We're very focused on, like, the core of the brand and keeping it really pure. And that kind of gets me out of bed every morning of. You know, when I was a little student, I was like, I want to use history, and I want to use it in a contemporary way. Like, that is my goal as someone who cares about decorative arts and design and specifically jewelry. And that's what we do here. So I.

[Carole Wilson]

You're in your happy place.

[Levi Higgs]

I did it. Yeah.

[Carole Wilson]

Well, thank you so much, Levi, for sharing it with us. And can we go and peek at the jade?

[Levi Higgs]

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for having me. This is fun. Very fun.

[Carole Wilson]

Thank you for listening. For this and other episodes of the podcast, Please go to carolwilton.com we have a new website and the book of the podcast, if Jules Could Talk, is out now in all good bookstores and from Amazon. Do share the podcast any way you can. And we love to have a rating and a comment. And join me again in two weeks for the next jeweled nugget. We're going to be discovering materials of the old world from Beyonce's favorite jeweler. So join me then, and thank you for listening. Bye. Bye. If Jules Could Talk with Carol Woolton is produced by Natasha Cowan, music and editing by Tim Thornton. Graphics by Scott Bentley. Illustration by Jordi labander.