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- [00:01]
Amazon Sponsor
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- [00:29]
Carol Houlton
This episode is brought to you by Fooly Gemstones.
- [00:39]
Vicki Torbak
I mean, if you see a piece, you know you're gonna say, oh, that's Jay Z's piece. Oh, that's Biggie's Jesus piece. Oh, that's ghost faces, you know, arm, arm eagle pendant. So they want to be different and stand out, and they want you to be able to look at a piece and know that's their piece.
- [01:01]
Carol Houlton
I'm Carol Houlton, the voice of jewellery. Welcome to if Jules Could Talk. I'm an author and broadcaster and the woman who initiated the role of jewellery editor at magazines like Tatler and Vogue. This is a podcast for everyone, for people who do like jewellery, for people who don't realize they like jewellery, and anyone intrigued by fascinating facts, new ideas and forgotten histories. So join me as I tell sparkly tales and meet all sorts of people delving into four centuries of jewellery culture and investigate what's happening now. We started our series of American shows two weeks ago with the incredible story of creativity and jewelry from David and Sybil Yeurman, the iconic American jewelers. And today we're continuing the series. I'll be talking with Vicki Torbak, who is the author of Ice Cold, which explores the history of hip hop jewelry. And indeed, she's also curated an exhibition of the same name at the American Natural History Museum. As she says, the history of jewelry is woven into the fabric of music. And that's what will be talking about today, the relationship between these two creative fields.
- [02:30]
Interviewer
Vicki, thank you so much for joining us.
- [02:32]
Vicki Torbak
Thank you for having me.
- [02:33]
Interviewer
And we are actually surrounded by bling and we are locked in.
- [02:41]
Carol Houlton
It's sort of really a bling vault.
- [02:43]
Interviewer
Really, here at the Mineral Hall. So if you hear a little echo.
- [02:48]
Carol Houlton
It'S because we're actually in here.
- [02:49]
Interviewer
We're surrounded by the diamonds, glass and a stone floor. So, Vicky, this is exploring the dialogue between culture, adornment and identity in hip hop. And why are you so interested in that subject?
- [03:04]
Vicki Torbak
It is a big story, you know, not just for New York and hip hop, but, you know, it's a story as old as time. What we Wear what we put on our bodies has been used to communicate status, wealth, storytelling. I'm someone that, you know, came up loving hip hop. I worked in the music business and in the early 90s and started writing about the music and was particularly interested in what was it that hip hop used as ways of identifying itself. What did hip hop look like? You know, and for anyone kind of in New York during those times, you know, especially like 80s 90s, you know, fashion, jewelry especially communicated so much. I mean, the street, the clubs, where this culture was taking place, place, the looks and all of this kind of adornment that went along with it was growing and changing too. So there was a big story here to tell. And, you know, I wanted to tell it like you said, first in the book and now in this great exhibition at the American Museum of Natural History.
- [04:12]
Interviewer
So what were you doing in the music industry?
- [04:14]
Vicki Torbak
What were you working at? So I worked for a record label called Payday Records, Empire Management in the early 90s. At the time, we represented a young Jay Z for a singles deal, gangstar show in ag. A lot of kind of golden era artists of the time. I was their director of marketing, so responsible for everything from arranging photo shoots, press releases, kind of getting the artists out into the world in the way that they wanted to be seen. So I worked with a lot of photographers, but also with a lot of stylists, fashion editors, designers and jewelers that were also kind of coming up at that same time. So I consider myself really lucky to have kind of seen that as it was happening with that access, because writing this book and also doing this exhibit and getting people to lend their stuff required so much relationships and trust of, you know, things that I had to really kind of dig. Dig back into, you know, those days for. For sure.
- [05:27]
Interviewer
So were you out getting involved in the music? Were there artists that you particularly followed and you went to every time they performed?
- [05:35]
Vicki Torbak
Yeah, I mean, I was, you know, I was a fan. You know, I was a kid. I was a fan and I, you know, worked and had like, really great access and proximity. So, you know, all the artists kind of of those times, Young Jay Z, Eric B and Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, Roxanne Shantae, you know, all of them. I, Slick Rick, Nas, I thought that they were some of the greatest artists of our time and, you know, still do.
- [06:04]
Interviewer
Tell me how you think hip hop really originated. How did it start? Was that in the 70s?
- [06:10]
Vicki Torbak
Yeah, I mean, you know, there's an origin story of, you know, that hip hop started in New York in the 70s. DJ Kool Herc. That's sort of the origin story of mixed two records together at a party and hip hop was born. But hip hop is a music that continues on black culture and black music. And so there were kind of pockets popping up, primarily New York, but then kind of everywhere. Atlanta, Louisiana, Houston, Detroit, which is the town where I grew up before I moved to New York. And so it's something that was created by people that didn't always have access to music production and the clubs that were playing mainstream music. So they made it up and created something from scratch, which is just such a beautiful thing.
- [07:12]
Interviewer
Do you think it needed that moment in the 70s with political upheaval to make it thrive, to create it?
- [07:19]
Vicki Torbak
Yeah. I mean, look, just like a diamond is created under pressure, Hip hop was created under pressure. Not to sound cliche, but you know, that that pressure creates diamonds and shining and beauty. But of course, it comes from circumstances that were quite, you know, quite serious, you know, and you listen to the early lyrics, you listen to the storytelling, and they tell you, you know, they.
- [07:47]
Interviewer
Felt like a neglected community.
- [07:49]
Vicki Torbak
Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, this tradition of remixing, making it up from scratch, originating all these kind of things that you see, you know, you hear in the music, but you also see in the jewelry. You know, this jewelry is so different, bigger, bolder, you know, the designs, the kind of show of, like, allegiance and brotherhood that it communicates. It's like nothing that came before it. So it's all tied in from the circumstances, for sure.
- [08:24]
Interviewer
I've just written this book called the Same Name as the podcast, if Jules Could Talk. And in it I talk about brooches, and I sort of feel that we lost the art of protest through jewellery. But actually, what you're saying is this really is a form of protest.
- [08:42]
Vicki Torbak
You could definitely call it that. You know, I think early jewelry, especially in, like, the 80s, right, because it was meant as a symbol of who you were in the community, to show status, to show power. And, you know, only certain people could wear the jewelry both for safety and, you know, for just being able to afford it. So a lot of the early rappers with the big, you know, gold, like dookie chains and, you know, big four finger rings and things like that, they emulated the people in the community that had money a lot of times, which were the hustlers, the drug dealers, things like that. So that style is rooted in people in the community who had money and were living well. Right. And that's sort of what hip hop wanted to Communicate as a protest to the day to day. Right. That they were seeing. But along with that, you know, also came, you know, danger of like, you had to kind of signify that you had some kind of protection or, you know, like chain snatching and all of that was very prominent, you know, in those days. You hear about it in the music and you hear about it in every day. So, yeah, it's a really complex story of how it's worn and by who.
- [10:08]
Interviewer
So who was the first, who was the first adopting this outrageous jewelry style?
- [10:15]
Vicki Torbak
Do you attribute it to artist wise, you mean?
- [10:19]
Interviewer
Yes.
- [10:19]
Vicki Torbak
So, you know, Slick Rick is very, you know, is considered kind of the godfather of all of this. But, you know, along with him, you also had artists like Bismarck, also another great originator, Eric B. And Rakim, you know, Roxanne, Shantae, Salt and Pepa. They were like all early women that also, you know, wore the big, you know, big hoop earrings and also the big jewelry and the rings. So those are some of the earlier names.
- [10:52]
Interviewer
So do you think earlier they were using the gold, Cuban chains and gold more than the diamonds?
- [10:59]
Vicki Torbak
Yeah. So Primarily in the 80s, it was just kind of, you know, gold and yellow gold at that. That was. And you know, a lot of the jewelers that were servicing the community were like community jewelry stores. You had Albie Square Mall in Brooklyn, you had the Coliseum Mall in Queens. Everywhere were kind of like neighborhood jewelry stores that would make grills, that would make, you know, specific chain links and things like that. And so the, the artist started going to these early jewelers and they got known and they started getting like name dropped in songs. Tito Caicedo, the jeweler. Jacob. Jacob and Co, of course, or Big, you know, big early in the, in the hip hop world. And then you had Eddie Plain, who did Eddie's Gold Teeth, that did a lot of early grills and things like that. So the jewelers kind of came up as the artists came up as hip hop started kind of going more mainstream in the like, you know, 90s, even into the 2000s, people wanted to do bigger and bolder and different from what came before them because hip hop is a very kind of competitive sport, if you will. So they started using white gold, platinum, and then diamonds, of course, which were so much more expensive to have in your. In your gold. So that's something that kind of came along that, you know, artists like, you know, Jay Z were known for kind of making. Making that transition. Yeah. And that was definitely move things. And then later you see kind of different materials come into play with Pharrell with the multicolored stones, Gucci mane, also with like different anime designs. So it's. There's definitely a progression, right, of like, styles with different artists and different moments of how hip hop itself changed.
- [12:52]
Interviewer
So they're not just trying to be part of a community of hip hop that also trying to self identify and identify each other. So to move away from the pack.
- [13:03]
Vicki Torbak
Absolutely, yeah. I mean, if you see a piece, you know, you're gonna say, oh, that's Jay Z's piece. Oh, that's Biggie's Jesus piece. Oh, that's ghost faces. You know, arm. Arm eagle pendant. So they want to be different and stand out. And they want you to be able to look at a piece and know that that's their piece.
- [13:26]
Interviewer
And so from the gold, they move on to diamonds. But that's predominantly diamonds, isn't it? It's not really color.
- [13:34]
Vicki Torbak
Yeah. I mean, now, you know, you hear about it all the time. Iced out chain, flooded chain, you know, bust down watches. I mean, diamonds are definitely the language of modern day hip hop for sure. But yeah, going back as well, what.
- [13:52]
Interviewer
Do you think they think about lab grown?
- [13:56]
Vicki Torbak
That's been a topic of conversation for sure. You know, we're at this funny time, right, with lab grown, where it's becoming more, you know, more used. Especially, you know, they perform in. The Artists perform in a lot of these pieces. So the pieces are get a lot of wear and tear and are on the road. So I don't know. You know, I think if you would ask most artists, they still would want natural, good for them. But, you know, I think. I think just like in other parts of the jewelry world, I think people are learning and deciding and.
- [14:36]
Interviewer
But if it's a big part of saying, this is how well I've done, this is my wealth. You need mined diamonds because they keep their value and their lab grown dough. And I think it's probably important for them that they're aligned with that.
- [14:51]
Vicki Torbak
Keeping it real.
- [14:52]
Interviewer
Yeah. And so what were the grills about? How did those start?
- [14:59]
Vicki Torbak
So grills are like a whole fascinating subculture within the culture of hip hop jewelry. Tooth adornment and grills have been part like the ancient Etruscans, the Mayans used jade in their teeth. And, you know, all over the world, you know, gold teeth has been used for, like, dental care. An amazing story. Eddie Plain immigrated from Suriname as a dental technician, immigrated to Brooklyn, New York with his brother Lando and started, you know, making these gold teeth from kids from the neighborhood who Loved, you know, to kind of wear some adornment in their mouth. Like, it was just different. Word started to spread. He started to make more. He opened up a shop in the Coliseum Mall next to this, like, company called Shirt Kings that made a lot of aerosol art fashion at the time. And the two. Those two kind of booths next to each other, people would come there and get grills and then get, like, an aerosol jacket. And people started doing, you know, all kinds of grill designs, right? Like RZA from Wu Tang Clan and ODB did, like, Fang Grills. People would get.
- [16:22]
Interviewer
And they can remove them.
- [16:23]
Vicki Torbak
They can remove them. Yeah. Some people in the south do. It's called, like, perms. Permanence. But, yeah, but for the most part, they can be, you know, removed in and out. And they use dental gold to make those to make grills. And so now, you know, so many places make them. But it primarily started in New York, then Eddie moved to Atlanta. A lot of people associate grills with Atlanta hip hop, but that's because Eddie and his brother moved down there and opened Eddie's Golds. And it kind of spread, you know, through the States. And now his brother Lando runs Lando Golds out of Florida, another, you know, kind of place that is known for grills in the South. And Eddie still doing his thing in New York.
- [17:14]
Interviewer
So it's just another place to get more diamonds.
- [17:17]
Vicki Torbak
Yes.
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Interviewer
Yeah.
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Vicki Torbak
Or you can just get gold. Gold fronts. Right. Just simple old school.
- [17:23]
Interviewer
And you refer in your book to the golden diamonds tied to the facets of black culture that are very complex. So what do you mean by that? How do you see this complexity?
- [17:36]
Vicki Torbak
So, you know, when I was writing the book, I, of course, wanted to go deeper on what was the tie, right, between Africa, where, you know, a lot of artists have, you know, roots and connections and the commodities. So many of the commodities come from there, right?
- [17:55]
Interviewer
Gold.
- [17:55]
Vicki Torbak
Diamonds and their history, you know, in conflict, in also the role of, you know, gold in the way that, like, different kingdoms and communities used it to signify gold, mansa musa, you know, places where things are mined. So there were so many kind of complex, both greatness and a lot of, you know, negativity kind of associated with their history. And I thought it was really fascinating the way that, you know, hip hop artists, again, are like, on the shoulders of that history, but also making it their own, redefining, you know, what. What it means or reclaiming it.
- [18:43]
Interviewer
Maybe reclaiming.
- [18:44]
Vicki Torbak
Reclaiming it and, you know, and also integrating elements of. Of the culture through symbolism. Right? Through Nefertiti Pendants Anghs, you know, Erykah Badu has a, you know, Maat grill. So it's also fascinating the symbols that they're bringing in that have, you know, traditional traditions in Africa and like you said, reclaiming and redefining and remixing that history, but also, you know, shining a light on that history too. I mean, a lot of artists have done songs about, you know, that. That complexity, which, again, I think just kind of lends to the. The kind of amazingness and seriousness of hip hop and jewelry. Oh, such a clutch off season Pickup Dave.
- [19:37]
Dave
I was worried we'd bring back the same team. I meant those Blackout motorized shades. Blinds.com made it crazy affordable to replace our old blinds. Hard to install. No, it's easy. I installed these and then got some for my mom. She talked to a design consultant for free and scheduled a professional measure and install hall of Fame son. They're the number one online retailer of custom window coverings in the world.
- [19:56]
Vicki Torbak
Blinds.com is the goat jobblinds.com right now. And get up to 40% off select styles, plus a free professional measure. Rules and restrictions may apply.
- [20:04]
Interviewer
And do you think the men are more bedecked than the women?
- [20:10]
Vicki Torbak
You know, it's funny because, yeah, I would say hip hop has sort of been the one area where they're the peacocks. The men are the peacocks. I mean, well, and look, you know, this year's Met gala theme is, you know, dandies. And I'm sure there's gonna be a lot of amazing jewelry, you know, there. But, yes, so, like, the male artists have definitely are the ones that have been known for their, like, key pieces. But, you know, I always say, like, the women, you know, the Nicki Minaj Barbie pendant is right, you know, over your shoulder. And the Roxanne Shantay ring is in the show. We also have, like, you know, early pieces from designer April Walker. Her nameplate pendant is in the show. So. And then we also have some, you know, young female jewelers that are really starting to design Lillian Shalom Bejewels. So women have always played a really important role here too. But.
- [21:19]
Interviewer
But look, we're looking at the baby necklace.
- [21:21]
Vicki Torbak
Yeah.
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Interviewer
And who was that? Who was that belong to?
- [21:24]
Vicki Torbak
Little baby. Okay. Yeah.
- [21:26]
Interviewer
And it's massive, and it's in your face. And I just think the men's story is just so much more powerful.
- [21:34]
Vicki Torbak
Yeah, I remember. You know, it was a little bit of a controversy online because a. A couple artists, like Future and some other current artists Started wearing their chains short, like a choker length. And people were saying that's a traditionally a female style. Males have worn it much longer and bigger. But now I think the artists are just being more playful with their jewelry. And so they're starting to wear brooches, shorter length, some, you know, even like a dollar ap. Rocky and Tyler started to wear pearls. And so all of this, you know, is inevitably talked about in, you know, in ways that they're, you know, maybe breaking gender stereotypes, kind of having fun with those, but again, just pushing forward, remixing and just having a lot of fun.
- [22:30]
Interviewer
Well, asap, Rocky bought a piece in Venice from Coronato when they sort of. They got a new creative director, Francesca and Villietro, and her first big necklace. And this is sort of Venetian ties to Renaissance, all sorts of Venetian motifs. And he was the first person to buy her first necklace. So really breaking out of that traditional look.
- [22:56]
Vicki Torbak
Rakhi is someone really interesting. You know, he grew up in New York. His mother named him after Rakim the artist. That's his name, Rakim Myers Rocky. And he is a student of New York style and New York hip hop jewelry. If you look over your shoulder, you see him in some classic gold grills, no diamonds. He understands the symbolism like a classic pair of gold fronts. But he also understands the history of the jewelry. And to your point, is now kind of interacting with jewelers that maybe back in the day wouldn't have interacted with hip hop artists. So that also just speaks to the mainstream power, the pop culture power of hip hop. And really, you know, in the words of Biggie, like, you never thought that hip hop would take it this way.
- [23:55]
Interviewer
And I wanted to ask about going back to the females, the big bamboo hoops. What do you feel about the controversy that those have had? Because often in fashion they've been used and people feel that it's not right that it should be left to black women and that white women should probably not wear or claim the bamboo hoops.
- [24:18]
Vicki Torbak
Yeah, you know, I mean, the hoops and also the nameplates, right? The nameplate that became, you know, the quote unquote, Carrie necklace from Sex and the City also has roots in, you know, black and Latino communities. So that's been said about both of those, you know, hoops, of course, you know, you look back, anyone that studies, you know, jewelry history, they were, you know, in the book, I show a pair of Fulani hoops, you know, that originated in Africa. So that, that is definitely a tradition, you know, that that have. Has been worn as you know, from African cultures. It's a tough question.
- [24:58]
Interviewer
Right.
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Vicki Torbak
Because things go into pop culture and into the zeitgeist and into, you know, the way that people wear things. I mean, you could say that with so many items. So I don't know that I have a really clean answer for that. You know, I see both points. I think when anyone, you know, kind of gets inspired or borrows from a culture, it's important. Important to also pay homage to that culture and make sure that, you know, that culture is being respected in a way that is celebrated, the way that, you know, this show really celebrates the jewelers, the originators, the artists that, you know, in the communities really that. That that came from. So I think that always has to be part of the conversation.
- [25:47]
Interviewer
It has to be referenced and done with respect.
- [25:51]
Vicki Torbak
Yep.
- [25:52]
Interviewer
Because we do love a hoop. We don't want to not be able to wear them. And then, as you said, very important that they found their own jewelers. That was very important to start with.
- [26:07]
Vicki Torbak
Yeah.
- [26:08]
Interviewer
And now they're moving on.
- [26:10]
Vicki Torbak
Yeah. Well, you know, like back in the day, the level of customization that hip hop artists wanted, a lot of mainstream jewelers just weren't doing, you know, you could.
- [26:19]
Interviewer
What kind of customization?
- [26:20]
Vicki Torbak
For instance, you know, your name on a giant, you know, dookie rope that spells out, you know, biz in different script, or, you know, a double headed, you know, eagle pendant that symbolizes the Dipset crew. You know, laid. Laid with diamonds and given to every member of the Dipset Crew. So you couldn't walk into Tiffany back then and say, here's what I want. Right. There were just certain jewelers that would do that and knew how to speak that language ironically. And this might even be a whole separate podcast, because this is another aspect of the book that I love in the show is that a lot of those jewelers were immigrants or children of immigrants themselves. Lot from former Soviet Union, a lot from, you know, South Korea, Suriname, I mentioned earlier. And, you know, that's also part of that kind of New York story, that kind of those folks that were searching for the American dream were intersecting with these artists that were questioning who the American dream is for and going to reclaim it. And they came together and made these incredible pieces.
- [27:45]
Interviewer
And I guess some of the words that were used probably, as you said in the 80s or 90s, probably weren't ones that safe brand, whatever came to.
- [27:53]
Vicki Torbak
Well, a lot of them, you know, a lot of them just were their names or their crew names or things like that. So.
- [28:00]
Interviewer
But some of Them were rude, probably.
- [28:04]
Vicki Torbak
Probably, yeah.
- [28:06]
Interviewer
And now that's probably okay, but probably back in the 80s, they probably balked at it, I imagine. And that's something I wanted to ask you. How the fashion has evolved. If you've been watching it so closely from 70s, 80s, 90s to now, how do you see it evolving?
- [28:21]
Vicki Torbak
Well, I just see hip hop, like, really stepped into its power and made impact where now every major fashion brand, every jewelry house is clamoring to have hip hop artists wear their pieces, collaborate, you know, asap. Berg, who's a big part of the exhibit, he was the first ambassador for Tiffany. Hip hop ambassador for Tiffany. And so, you know, he was a kid that grew up going to high school and walking by Tiffany every day. And now, you know, he holds this great. That inspires so many young people how to dress, how to be, what jewelry to wear. So I think, you know, I think hip hop in this moment is just a really incredible testament right from where it started. Always being unapologetic about who it was and what it was and what it had to say to now having this big mainstream influence, I think is, you know, a beautiful, full, full 360 moment.
- [29:30]
Interviewer
And they're not really branded, are they? I mean, they wouldn't go to the brands as such. To have this jewelry, it has to be something more customized and individual.
- [29:42]
Vicki Torbak
Yeah, typically. I mean, but, you know, a lot of the jewelers now are like, becoming their own brands. I mean, Alex Moss, who made Tyler's Igor piece, even Greg Yuna, who did this, you know, this piece. I mean, a lot of the jewelers now, even though, you know, they're not Cartier or Tiffany, but they are.
- [30:02]
Interviewer
There's a Tiffany T bracelet there.
- [30:04]
Vicki Torbak
Yeah. So this is Ferg, who I was just referring to. You see him there with, you know, at a Tiffany event, and they made that bracelet for him, which is a, you know, the traditional Tiffany bracelet. Yep. But then, you know, you look right next to the Tiffany bracelet and you see Ferb's Lamborghini pendant, which was made by Ben Baller out of California. And that piece was made to commemorate a friend who passed away, who was the founder of the ASAP mob, of which, you know, Ferg and Rocky were all part of. So that, that is like a, you know, a memory, you know, a commemorative pendant of someone who. Who passed away, which is, you know, another way that jewelry and hip hop is. Is used sort of memorial, you know, to memorialize things and people that are no longer with us and, you know, important to the culture. You know, and also right above that, Joey Badass lent us this piece that has the photo of a friend of his who passed away. Capital steez with a crumb.
- [31:16]
Interviewer
So these are all for performance? Are they just worn for performance or do they wear them?
- [31:21]
Vicki Torbak
Oh, no, these are for every day.
- [31:24]
Interviewer
These are for every day. They're just unbelievable. But heavy.
- [31:27]
Vicki Torbak
Yes, heavy. Yes, they're quite significant. You know, I mean, they're for performance and for every day. But certainly some pieces might be a little too heavy if worn for too long, which is a good thing, maybe.
- [31:47]
Interviewer
Getting them to rest. The jewelry.
- [31:49]
Vicki Torbak
Yes. Although, you know, the ghost face cuff, I think you could just kick back, watch a little TV in that. Good for every day.
- [31:58]
Interviewer
Tell me about the 10 million pound diamond necklace that Alex Moss made. Was that for Drake?
- [32:04]
Vicki Torbak
Oh, previous engagements, right. Yes, that, that was. So that's, you know, the previous engagements necklace, which is not in the show but is. We have a different piece from Drake, but that piece was made to kind of utilize multiple engagement rings, like diamonds from different engagement rings, supposedly symbolizing all the times that Drake thought about proposing to someone. So again, just another way that, you know, artists and jewelers work together to think of different concepts and then, you know, have the amazingness and audacity to actually create those things. I mean, that was a very clever, very funny, I think, you know, piece to make.
- [32:58]
Interviewer
It's quite funny because there was the Hollywood actress Paulette Goddard back in the kind of 40s. She had a long diamond riviere necklace. And somebody said, what's that about? And she said, I got engaged so many times and I never gave the diamond back.
- [33:14]
Vicki Torbak
She kept hats.
- [33:16]
Interviewer
So it's the kind of the male equivalent really, isn't it? And how do you see the female jewelry developing now? What do you expect to come next, do you think?
- [33:28]
Vicki Torbak
Yeah, I mean, so women artists in hip hop have really, you know, taken bigger control of their careers as women kind of progressed in their power in hip hop and today are very much in charge of their careers, their image. The jewelry has been really fun to watch. You know, if you think about Nikki's Barbie pendant that she had made in the 2000s, and you fast forward to pieces like Beyonce's nail rings made by the jeweler of bejewels, or even the cardi b like nipple covers or Erykah Badu's grills that use opals and, you know, a lot of, like, symbolism. The women are really pushing the envelope with design kind of different things beyond just, you know, necklaces and rings. Just like, you know, they are, in their. In their music, really pushing boundaries. So that's what I love, you know, that the jewelry really reflects their real personalities in their music.
- [34:28]
Interviewer
Do you think the next stage will be if they're so involved in design that they'll design a line, a collection for other people?
- [34:36]
Vicki Torbak
Who knows? I could see it, you know, especially with, like, Ferg, Rocky. I mean, really, with so many artists in the show, I could. I could definitely see. See them designing.
- [34:49]
Interviewer
And it's called Ice Cold because they always talk about diamonds as ice.
- [34:54]
Vicki Torbak
Yeah, well, ice cold also used to be. Is like, a phrase, right, that I think it was, like, around even in, like, the 70s and 80s. You know, it was like, oh, that's cool. You know, that's cold. That's ice cold. That's considered, like, a compliment. Or, you know, outkast was like, what's cooler than being cool? Ice cold. So it's. It's a play on words, right? It's diamonds. It's. But it's also a compliment of just looking really good.
- [35:25]
Interviewer
Do you have a favorite piece in the show?
- [35:27]
Vicki Torbak
Oh, my gosh. You know, it's like picking children. I definitely have a few favorites, you know, for different reasons. The Tyler piece, the bellhop piece that by Alex Moss, is a favorite of mine.
- [35:43]
Interviewer
And what's the story behind that?
- [35:44]
Vicki Torbak
The bellhop.
- [35:45]
Interviewer
So this.
- [35:46]
Vicki Torbak
This was a piece that Tyler had made when he was making his album Igor. And, you know, if, you know Tyler and his music, he always goes really deep on character and motifs. And, you know, that album had a lot of kind of motifs of, like, travel and, you know, these. These kinds of, like, elements of, like, suitcases and traveling and what that means. And if you look at his imagery from that time, you know, he was dressed in all these kind of, like, very dandy suits and things like that. And so the bellhop sort of went with that whole motif, and, you know, so he commissioned that to kind of go with that album and some of the things that he was thinking about. Yeah, but I love it, you know, because it uses so many different colors, materials. You know, it's got sapphires in there and blue and pink and. And. Yeah, it's just. It's really a fun fact.
- [36:44]
Interviewer
That's one of your favorites.
- [36:45]
Vicki Torbak
It's one of my favorites. But, you know, I'd say my other favorite, of course, is the Run DMC Adidas chain pendant, because that one of the members of Run dmc Jam Master J, passed away, was murdered several years ago. That piece has stayed with his Son who lent it to us, lent us for the show. So that piece is really special because it's all the way back from the 80s and just, you know, a piece that was very much associated with Run DMC and, you know, and the artist. So, you know, the pieces have so much memory and so much storytelling in them, you know, both good and bad. So whether you're being inspired for an.
- [37:32]
Interviewer
Album, jewelry always is it, or whether.
- [37:36]
Vicki Torbak
You know, you're commemorating someone that, you know, passed or whatever it is, the jewels really hold, you know, bigger story.
- [37:45]
Interviewer
And it's kind of full circle that the music came, the jewelry came, now the jewelry's in the music. So it's all together.
- [37:53]
Vicki Torbak
Yeah, it's holistic, as they say.
- [37:58]
Interviewer
Well, congratulations, Vicki. It's a fantastic exhibition. If anyone gets a chance to be in New York, they should come and see it. It sort of opens up a whole new idea about the genre that, you know, some people aren't really aware of.
- [38:12]
Carol Houlton
As well as the music.
- [38:13]
Vicki Torbak
Well, and just, I'll just also just add quickly that it's in the hall of Gems and Minerals, which, you know, if you come in and you see that permanent collection and, you know, you can be educated about, you know, the history of gems and minerals and how they're made, but then you step in here, which is like a jewel box size exhibit of hip hop and jewelry, it gives you this great perspective, which is why I love having it in this museum of hip hop in the context of our long humanity and how these commodities have been used. So it's a really special thing to have it in this museum too.
- [38:58]
Interviewer
You're right. It's that sort of ancient connotation of what is outside that came took billions of years to grow in the earth and how modern it can be.
- [39:09]
Vicki Torbak
Yeah.
- [39:10]
Interviewer
Well, thank you very much. Thank you for sharing that with us.
- [39:14]
Vicki Torbak
Of course. My pleasure.
- [39:20]
Carol Houlton
Thank you for listening. For this and other episodes of if you Jules Could Talk, please go to our website carolwalton.com podcasts. Do share it any way you can and we love to have a rating and a comment. And don't forget, if you've got a book voucher or anything to spend at the end of the year following the holiday season. The if Jewels Could Talk book is on sale now. Join me again for the next jewelled nugget when we've got a special episode which was recorded in New York in the Verdura showroom. When I'm actually interviewed by Ward Landrigan, one of our favorite guests. I was invited into the Verdura showroom to meet a large group of their clients, guests, journalists, to talk about the book. If Jules could talk and managed to ask him a few questions about Elizabeth Taylor in the book process. So do join us then and thank you for listening. Goodbye. If Jules Could Talk with Carole Walton is produced by Natasha Cowan. Music and editing by Tim Thornton. Graphics by Scott Bentley. Illustration by Jordi Labander. You can find our sponsors@ fully gemstones.com and me@carolwilton.com.