LIFE AND JEWELS ACCORDING TO GLENN SPIRO

Summary

Podcast Summary: If Jewels Could Talk with Carol Woolton
Episode: Life and Jewels According to Glenn Spiro
Release Date: March 7, 2025

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Introduction to Glenn Spiro

In this captivating episode of If Jewels Could Talk, host Carol Woolton welcomes listeners to the exquisite atelier of Glenn Spiro, situated in London's prestigious Mayfair district. Housed in a stunning mid-18th-century building formerly occupied by the Royal Couturier Norman Hartnell, Glenn Spiro celebrates four decades of high jewellery craftsmanship known for its flair and originality. Recognized by Beyoncé for the "bravery and modernity" of his designs, Glenn embodies a non-conventional approach that sets him apart in the competitive world of jewellery.

Carol Woolton [00:35]: "Beyoncé says there's a bravery and modernity to Glenn's designs."

Glenn's Background and Early Career

Glenn Spiro's journey into the jewellery business began humbly. Leaving school at a young age, he secured a position at English Artworks on Bond Street, an experience that paved the way for his apprenticeship. Reflecting on his early days, Glenn shares anecdotes of diligently collecting gold scraps from the workshop floor, which eventually led to his apprenticeship as a master jeweler after successfully cutting intricate designs from 3D coins.

Glenn Spiro [07:14]: "I did a full eight and a half, nine years. Became a master jeweler apparently. So I was good at what I did."

Challenges in the Jewellery Business

Transitioning from apprenticeship to establishing his own workshop on Farringdon Road, Glenn encountered the multifaceted challenges of the jewellery business. He emphasizes that success in this field extends beyond craftsmanship to encompass elements like branding, presentation, and business acumen.

Glenn Spiro [03:00]: "There's a lot of components around it that reflect the jewelry you make as well as the jewelry. Whether it's the place you work, whether it's the way you present..."

Relationship with Mr. Ratner and Business Growth

A pivotal moment in Glenn's career was his collaboration with the influential jeweler Joel Ratner. This partnership provided the financial stability needed to produce couture pieces while fulfilling large-scale orders for brands like Ratners, Samuels, and Zales. Despite market fluctuations and challenges posed by Ratner's business decisions, Glenn remained steadfast in his commitment to creating unique, high-quality pieces.

Glenn Spiro [20:18]: "We sell, we can sell a six by one salmon diamond cluster cheaper than the smoked salmon and cream cheese cucumber in Selfridges. We basically sell crap."

Transition to Artistic Jewelry

Disillusioned by the commercial pressures of mass production, Glenn sought to return to artistry in jewellery. His tenure at Christie's further fueled this passion, allowing him to create bespoke pieces that blend ancient artifacts with modern design. This fusion not only honors historical craftsmanship but also introduces innovative aesthetics to contemporary jewellery.

Glenn Spiro [25:09]: "I became head of their jewelry department... I wanted to make great things."

Work with Christie's and Unique Collections

Glenn's collaboration with Christie's led to the creation of exceptional pieces that incorporate ancient materials from Mesopotamia and 17th-century Africa. His collections, such as the "Bioli Dream," showcase his ability to blend historical elements with luxurious gemstones, resulting in jewellery that is both artistically significant and commercially appealing.

Glenn Spiro [40:32]: "This is called the Bioli Dream. So this just finished, if you can see. So just to give you an idea, so these are all very, very ancient turquoise beads."

Design Philosophy and Artistic Integrity

Central to Glenn's design philosophy is a commitment to authenticity and artistic expression over commercial success. He passionately rejects the notion of mass-producing jewellery solely for profit, instead prioritizing personal satisfaction and creative fulfillment. This ethos is reflected in his meticulous approach to selecting gemstones and crafting each piece to ensure it resonates with both him and his clientele.

Glenn Spiro [15:23]: "I genuinely, genuinely... I want to love what comes out of it, even to the packaging, even the boxes I like to make."

Family Collaboration and Future Endeavors

Glenn's collaboration with his son has introduced a dynamic blend of tradition and innovation within his atelier. Together, they explore new design horizons, incorporating futuristic ideas while respecting the rich heritage of jewellery-making. This partnership signifies a promising future as they continue to push the boundaries of design and craftsmanship.

Glenn Spiro [36:07]: "From Mesopotamia, from Bioli, which is African 17th century... let's make a boutique line with these things that are more affordable."

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Throughout the episode, Glenn Spiro underscores the importance of passion, perseverance, and integrity in the jewellery industry. His journey from a young apprentice to a renowned jeweller exemplifies the blend of artistic vision and business savvy required to thrive. Glenn's story serves as an inspiration to aspiring jewellers and design enthusiasts alike, highlighting that true success lies in creating pieces that are both beautiful and meaningful.

Glenn Spiro [49:21]: "You need to have some sort of talent. The rest is your hustle and how you work ethic. But you have that talent that you believe in."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Carol Woolton [00:35]: "Beyoncé says there's a bravery and modernity to Glenn's designs."
• Glenn Spiro [03:00]: "There's a lot of components around it that reflect the jewelry you make as well as the jewelry."
• Glenn Spiro [07:14]: "I did a full eight and a half, nine years. Became a master jeweler apparently."
• Glenn Spiro [20:18]: "We basically sell crap."
• Glenn Spiro [25:09]: "I wanted to make great things."
• Glenn Spiro [40:32]: "This is called the Bioli Dream."
• Glenn Spiro [15:23]: "I want to love what comes out of it, even to the packaging."
• Glenn Spiro [36:07]: "Let's make a boutique line with these things that are more affordable."
• Glenn Spiro [49:21]: "You need to have some sort of talent. The rest is your hustle and how you work ethic."

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Final Remarks:

Glenn Spiro's narrative is a testament to the enduring allure of jewellery as both art and legacy. His dedication to craftsmanship, combined with a fearless approach to design, continues to inspire and captivate those who appreciate the timeless beauty of jewels.

For more insightful episodes and sparkling tales, visit carolwilton.com and subscribe to If Jewels Could Talk on your favorite podcast platform.

Transcript

[Glenn Spiro]

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[Carol Houlton]

I'm Carol Houlton, the voice of jewellery. Welcome to if Jules Could Talk. I'm an author and broadcaster and the woman who initiated the role of jewellery editor at magazines like Tatler and Vogue. This is a podcast for everyone, for people who do like jewellery, for people who don't realize they like jewellery, and anyone intrigued by fascinating facts, new ideas and forgotten histories. So join me as I tell sparkly tales and meet all sorts of people delving into four centuries of jewellery culture and investigate what's happening now. We are here today in London's Mayfair at the atelier of Glens Spiro. We're in the most beautiful mid 18th century building that once housed the Royal Couturier Norman Hartnell. Glenn has recently celebrated 40 years of high jewellery flair and originality and he's actually known for his non conventional approach to the business. So we'll talk a bit about that later. Beyonce says there's a bravery and modernity to Glenn's designs. And I've actually just owned up to Glen now that some years ago, it was quite a long time ago, we were doing a big high jewellery story in Vogue and I was working on it with Christa D'Souza and I said to her, right, this morning we're going to go and meet the Simon Cowell of the jewellery world. And I only used that phrase because at the time, Simon Cowell was the guy and he was famed for having these really white teeth. And this was what we wrote in Vogue. An instantly likable character with slicked back hair, chiclet teeth and a vicious tan, Spyro has already attracted interest from the likes of Tom Ford and Tamara Mellon. That was when he first moved to this building and it's kind of apt that he is in the building because he is basically a diamond dealer turned cochirini. Glenn, thank you very much for hosting us.

[Glenn Spiro]

Thank you. What a perfect introduction. Thank you.

[Carol Houlton]

You were happy we talked about your teeth.

[Glenn Spiro]

It was great. They're not really officially mine, actually.

[Carol Houlton]

So what I wanted to know first from you is what sets your pulse racing? Is it the stones or is it the jewellery?

[Glenn Spiro]

Well, in answer to that question, what sets my pulse? I think it's not just the jewelry Because I think if you just focus on the jewelry, I think it's very, very hard to be a successful jeweler. So there's a lot of components around it that reflect the jewelry you make as well as the jewelry. Whether it's the place you work, whether it's the way you present, whether it's the way you go somewhere and associate yourself, how you behave, how you conduct yourself, how you advertise, how you. The whole thing is in a package. The jewelry is part of that package. By absolute chance, I seem to have a little talent at creating these pieces and this maverick way of looking at it because I have actually no idea what I'm doing. Clueless. And the truth is, I think I. As I said to my wife, I think maybe it's best I carry on doing exactly what I don't know what I'm doing. Because at the moment, proudly, I sit here today in some difficult times, some great times. We're in the world's up and down and I think we're okay. And it seems to me people are still knocking on the door. And when I travel, people come and see us. And so I think we must be doing something half right. So it's not just the jeweller, I think that's really important actually for jewellers. It's not just the jewelry. Other things go around with it that I think that's really important, actually.

[Carol Houlton]

And so it's a business. Stones as well?

[Glenn Spiro]

Yeah. I think there's an under. I think if you conform and you follow. You know, years ago, before the rap and porn, all this stuff that blah, blah, blah, a man would pick up a stone. Beautiful, isn't she? Right. It's just that it's taste. They literally picked it, looked at it and they haven't looped it, they haven't done anything. They just put it in their hands. She's beautiful. It's a sense of beauty and a sense of something lovely and. And the power of your own conviction. Right. No difference to someone who takes a fabulous house. There are beautiful homes in London, Regency homes, these fabulous homes that 20 foot, like we are in here. I've been into some of them that are just magnificent, they're just different. But.

[Carol Houlton]

And it's a feel when you walk.

[Glenn Spiro]

In, and it's a feel you walk in, they think, jeez, they have the balls to do this. This is unbelievable. Beautiful. But still maintain the integrity of the building. But you walk in, why would you do that? And I've been to others where it's just God awful. But and it's a big. But the person who made it God awful thinks it's fabulous. So you can't say anything.

[Carol Houlton]

No accounting for taste.

[Glenn Spiro]

No account of a taste. But I'm a big question, you know, the truth of the matter is great taste is in for the very few people in the world. Not everyone has great taste if they think that's great taste. The majority do not have that way of thinking. But they think they've got great taste. So there's a fine line, you belong to a club that you're comfortable in, you stick to that club and stop. Don't try and dance at all the other places because you'll fail.

[Carol Houlton]

So when you just said jewellery is a really difficult business, what were you thinking?

[Glenn Spiro]

You know, look, I started with a blank bit of paper. We don't come from great standing. We had a. We have a lovely family. Beautiful. But who knew what the jewelry business was. Got a job. You made the teas, you made the coffee. As long as your teas and coffees were good. And I was very lucky to go to English artworks.

[Carol Houlton]

So you left school at like 15?

[Glenn Spiro]

Yeah, very young. And I. And I.

[Carol Houlton]

And why did you leave school then?

[Glenn Spiro]

It wasn't of great interest, honestly, I wasn't as soon as.

[Carol Houlton]

So you were bored at school?

[Glenn Spiro]

Not bored but you came from a place my.

[Carol Houlton]

I was quite young to leave.

[Glenn Spiro]

It was. I'm younger than that actually, just before. But anyway, that's fine. Nobody was a bit before 14. 14? Well, it was. I was. Not officially, but I never. But look, the reality was I popped back in occasionally.

[Carol Houlton]

And what did your parents say when.

[Glenn Spiro]

You said, you know, I think my. I don't say my. They were very upset. They didn't.

[Carol Houlton]

Look, have they forgiven you?

[Glenn Spiro]

The truth is I wasn't a bad kid and if ever I got myself into trouble, I always. It was easy to get in the mess, but the art's getting out of the mess. So I had that as a young kid. I could talk my way getting out of it, sorry about. And move on and finish. So I never brought trouble home, I don't think. And when I think back, I. I went into the jewelry business. I think my father knew someone who knew someone and said, look, you can go there, get this kid. And I became a very good tea boy. And I cleaned the skins in those days, you know, the big skins. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Carol Houlton]

So you're dropping the bits of gold.

[Glenn Spiro]

You'Re dropping, then you get the lemon, the scraping. And then we used to have a grate at the front door of the workshop. So when people came out the workshop, they shook because the floor shook and then the gold sort of dropped from them. I used to scoop that up, but.

[Carol Houlton]

So where was this? It was the English artworks, which is.

[Glenn Spiro]

Just at the top of Bond Street. It used to be Cartier's workshops.

[Carol Houlton]

Okay.

[Glenn Spiro]

And I used to sit there and watch these men leave one by one. And this jewelry used to. And amazingly there was stuff because when you're spinning, it's so this great when you walked and it made you shake and the door fell and then I scraped it up and then they gave me. Do you remember the 3D coin we used to put in the thripers? So they gave me one of those, said, look, if you can cut the queen's head out, would you like to be an apprentice? Yeah. Okay. How much you get for that? They gave me a number which was nothing. Cut the queen's head out. I remember the felt. Wow. In the crown. It was tiny. And you learned, you went to be an apprentice? I did a full eight and a half, nine years. Became a master jeweler apparently. So I was good at what I did.

[Carol Houlton]

So you just learned on the bench?

[Glenn Spiro]

Yeah, I sat at the bench. You did all that?

[Carol Houlton]

How many jewelers were working their goldsmiths at that time?

[Glenn Spiro]

There was polishers, mountains, enamels. I would say about 14, 15 in London? Yeah, 14. But then they had the. Then I got to an age of 22 and they had that big robbery of the blue diamond, pink diamond in those days. And they weren't insured, There was some whatever coming up. We had to mount a ring and it. Whatever I had left already to set up a little workshop in Farrington Road, which was minute in my book, actually. It's tiny.

[Carol Houlton]

And what did you want to do then?

[Glenn Spiro]

I had no idea. Just we got the carvington fellow who was a friendly dad's cab driver. We used to come to the weekend. He built four benches. It was myself and Robert. And he wasn't very happy because he left English. I was very happy because I gave him his resignation without asking him. He was married with a kid, so he wasn't happy. But I said, I think we do really well. And we sat there looking at each other again. His phone's not going. I didn't know where to go and I had a little bit of money saved. So I actually bought two items myself from my own company to tell him. We got orders just to keep them off my back. And we carried on. And then they had this rubbish. So we had the room next door. We put jewelers in there from the great ones and said we could be a great workshop. And we went out to those days, you know, the garrets, the nappings and the big companies up and up and down the country. The Wainwrights and all those type of people. And that's Boodles and Dunthorne who were. His father was great. That was one of my first great stories actually. We made three rings and went on the train and went up to Liverpool and they, it's the old school, you know, you're down there. He's up here in that long desk. What have you got three rings here? So. And he gave me the rings. How much do you want? I think we said £8,000. £8,200. Maybe we go in. They used to have a boardroom behind with that door. They'd have lunch in there. And he went to the back and he came back out. He said, we'd like to buy all three. I went, what do you mean? So I'd like to go through it. Okay. He said may we give you a check? I said I think so. I don't know. Can you? I think you can. And when you keep them. Yes. And he gave me a check, it was 8300 and he gave me a check for £9000. So it's eight day. Goes, not sure you're charging enough there, young man. I went, yeah, okay.

[Carol Houlton]

That's so nice of you.

[Glenn Spiro]

Mr. Wayne might see, I'll never forget.

[Carol Houlton]

So nice.

[Glenn Spiro]

And I went out and I made a complete fool of myself because when I left, as he closed the big electric door went out. So I went. And of course I heard his.

[Carol Houlton]

We're rich.

[Glenn Spiro]

He went like this. Oh, hello young man. You may want to move away from the camera in the elevator. Down. I'm sorry. And I left anyway. So there's excitement, there's your first thing.

[Carol Houlton]

And learning immediately, well, whatever, you know what you did.

[Glenn Spiro]

I left there, went, shit works. It works. You make something. You can sell something and make money and then go inside.

[Carol Houlton]

So you were selling ready made pieces to brands.

[Glenn Spiro]

When I say, hold on, we, we made three rings. Let's not get over ourselves. We did three rings. But what we did do with those three rings, funny enough, they were different. And my partner, those enrolled was up, says, do traditional. Come hang on to, let's do something. I'm not saying they were as they were today, but they were a bit different.

[Carol Houlton]

Yeah.

[Glenn Spiro]

And they bought them. I said, you know, there's something here because everyone did six by one clubs. As you know, England was very, very traditional. And we stepped out the comfort zone and we carried on building that little world until Mr. Ratner came along. And then we realized we were really needing money. So we made masters for Ratners and Samuels and Zales and all those things. We ended up making all those diamond rings for Ratner in those days. So that went to the back. We needed money. But as soon as I made money there, we always made couture pieces, things we liked, and I bought stones and then I cut stones.

[Carol Houlton]

So the rattanus was your bread and butter.

[Glenn Spiro]

Well, it came from nowhere. So, you know, when you've got a man that grew. Mr. Ratman, he grew from 12 stores from his father, who passed and grew it to 2000. It's very hard to say no when you're. When you're on that train ride. Well, of course. But we did take the money and made cool stuff, like good stuff, hard to sell. But actually, in a way, I was quite proud that, no, not everyone wanted it. So it became more. You seeked out the people who had the courage, the wallet, the conviction, the glamour, the confidence to wear it. And it started working, actually. We had Robert Glenn, remember, and they used to have little stands at Birmingham, and then went to Paris. And actually, it was good. It's a small thing, but it was good.

[Carol Houlton]

So where were you getting your inspiration?

[Glenn Spiro]

Honestly, I think I looked. I'll tell you what we did. Same as I do today. I looked at the big brands, the old style. You add a bit, you look a bit, you. You try and adapt it in a way that, you know, we weren't as sophisticated as we are today. I think today. You know what? I'll tell you what. I think today we are leaders. And then I was a follower, so I followed certain old trends, but added, today, I think we set trends and people follow.

[Carol Houlton]

Were you looking at how women wore jewelry?

[Glenn Spiro]

No, I never cared. I have never made jewelry for someone. I've definitely made jewelry for me. I've made it because if I don't, if I like it, then I'm happy to put it in the safe night.

[Carol Houlton]

I tell you what's really interesting about you saying that, because I've always felt that you were a very feminine jeweler.

[Glenn Spiro]

Well, there's a feminine side to that.

[Carol Houlton]

When I look at some of the other brands, and I can think it's made by a man that is made by a man, you know, that is very masculine for a woman to wear. And yours always have the Feeling that it's made definitely for a woman.

[Glenn Spiro]

I see a woman not. I see beautiful woman today not wearing jewelry. And I think there's something missing. I just look at go, you are so good looking and you're naturally beautiful and you're trying to be clever to wear nothing. But sadly this tradition is far older than you. It's thousands of years. So as much as you're interested in the clothing, you've missed the belt and the shoes and the exterior. That works because a woman with the right thing, you go, wow. I don't know why. I know I can't. The same as makeup. I guess some people go out without makeup. A little touch here and there. I don't think it's so terrible. I think it's. I think there's a reason for it. It's been going for thousands of years.

[Carol Houlton]

Well, you've just got this feminine flair in your design.

[Glenn Spiro]

Well, maybe I look again. I genuinely, genuinely. I don't love the jewelry business as such because I think it's more. It's today especially it's become a business rather than art. I think it's run by a calculator and a balance of sheets. I think all the great jewelers are not jewelers anymore. They're corporations. And, and I, they're fantastic. I wish I owned some of them, but I don't. But I think they've lost. I think it's very important what do we sell? And they're desperate to know that something sold. I, on the other hand, get really pissed off if I finish something that I love and someone goes, I'll have that. Okay, right. And I promise you on Monday, I just sold something that I've just finished. It is really out there. I'm going to show it to you because I fallen in love with it. It's a lovely old stone that I bought years ago. I'd love to buy gems. Yes, a fabulous cognac. I didn't expect the girl, my lovely girl to take out the safe to go. That is beyond. And I'm looking at her with these dibbles. Why? Because I'd like to buy that. So I said to him, look, I will give it to you. Can I give it to you in May? He said, but you can wear it for the birthday. But I'll need it. But I want to live with it a little bit. He went, okay, I didn't do it for any other reason. I actually really want it around me because it's. I think it's really cool. And to be Honest. I like to show it. I like to show people what I did. It's a special thing. So I do think I'm doing it for the right reason.

[Carol Houlton]

Do you feel you're competing with the big brand?

[Glenn Spiro]

No, no. I think. I think when I speak to the big brands and I know them. Because you sold.

[Carol Houlton]

Used to sell.

[Glenn Spiro]

Yes. And they come here. I've given them jewelry for many years without mentioning names. The biggest brand, they come. They can't advertise it. They don't put it in the window. It doesn't. You can't walk in the catwalk or whatever. But they do present it. When it comes back, you stamp and they take it off. But it's stuff that they would never make because if they had to put money in the sweater box, it would cost them a fortune of how it goes wrong. And you have to. It takes time to make this stuff and sometimes you've got to be willing to go, leave it there, leave it. Just. I'm not in the mood. I don't like it for the minute. Leave it because it's doing wrong. And sometimes you come back somewhere and it's, yeah, I feel a bit better. The music's playing, you're in the mood and you start again. You have made. Everything's in Geneva. I've been there for 35 years. And it's. It's just. Well, firstly, from a business perspective, blah, blah, blah. Geneva was fantastic. Shipping, goods, it was so easy. Today it's different. The lake, I love the air. I love. I actually love coming out the airport, that cold breeze and I go, you know what? I actually really like it sometimes when I leave, I leave my hotel, which I stay in the same hotel, beau Rivage, right. 40 years. I literally. There's a bench just outside, you know, by the lake. I literally an hour, I go and sit and get a coffee, just. And sit on the bed. Just look at the lake. It is like a spa. It's like, wow. It feels great. It's. There's something quite calming about being in.

[Carol Houlton]

Well, it's very quiet, Geneva.

[Glenn Spiro]

It feels good. It feels the right place to create lovely things. There's no traffic as such in the middle. You can walk, you can breathe. The people around. It's the old school. There's amazing things there that come to your desk that would normally come to London. London's a big city that's a province that's just super chic and quiet and lovely. And we've become. I'll be one of the top people There making special things which I like.

[Carol Houlton]

When you've got your little workshop in Farringdon Road and you're building up, you gradually go to more and more brands to sell your pieces.

[Glenn Spiro]

We build up jewellery. Gerald Rattler came along that completely overtook die in and of course we went with it. Unfortunately the famous comment which you know, we sell crap.

[Carol Houlton]

Well some people in different parts of.

[Glenn Spiro]

The world may not one of them. One of the most powerful jewelers in the world was Mr. Joel Ratner. Over 2000. He started with 12 stores. In fact tell you a little story. I went to see him once when he first took it in his little two bedroom apartment. He had a big glass window which was the window of his dad's store. He said I've got a great idea. Dad's giving me the store. He's not well. He said I want to get rid of everything. And he had new line Nu Lime discontinued and sale. And I said we need to have three stickers. We're going to do those. And he did it. And they started growing as you know and they grew to over two and a half thousand stores worldwide. I don't zales one time signet of course in those days in America, enormous numbers. And then one day at a AGM.

[Carol Houlton]

Meeting he was being given an award.

[Glenn Spiro]

He was giving an award. He stood up there and he just stood and said look, how is it you sell more juice than Anya? He said look. So he said we sell, we can sell a six by one salmon diamond cluster cheaper than the smoked salmon and cream cheese cucumber in Selfridges. We basically sell crap.

[Carol Houlton]

And he used the word crap and that was his business.

[Glenn Spiro]

You know what's funny? I remember I used to play sport. I played football when I was a kid and I never heard someone crossing the ball. And they went oh, that's a rattler ball. And I went oh, that's the end of that. And I'll tell you the best thing that you may not know that was happened in October of that year. In January of that same year, Ratner's declared that any diamond related product that you are not happy with, you could get a full refund in 12 months. Within the 12 months. Thinking that most women when you receive something from your man, you're not going to go can we get the money? Stay banked on it. Daycrap came out. I don't know that it was like 500 million, $400 million came back in for cashmere and that's what buried them. So that's where it Came from. It was the return of goods. They didn't want crap jewelry and they gave it back. That was. That was an issue.

[Carol Houlton]

So perception is all.

[Glenn Spiro]

Yes, it is that. So we. So then basically I. We went through tough times.

[Carol Houlton]

So maybe he did you a favor there.

[Glenn Spiro]

Look, life is all. Look, if you don't. If you don't. If you don't.

[Carol Houlton]

Because you wouldn't have gone off.

[Glenn Spiro]

Look, you.

[Carol Houlton]

You know, you kept making.

[Glenn Spiro]

Do you remember that? You remember that? You remember the door? You remember that film Sliding Doors? It's Sliding Doors. It doesn't. I haven't the moments of crying and been said. You know, they say your worst at times is your best of times. So I say, I can definitely tell you all the bad times and they're more interesting today than the good times because the good ones are obvious. They're great. Bad times is when you fall and get up and go again and again and again. And I've definitely had four or five proper times that you sit and go poor. And that time happened just as my son was born. That was 32, three years ago. And we moved out the house, got the bell. Oh, shit, I've got nothing. Off we go again. And I opened a little workshop on what's the walkway of Bond Street, South Morton street, whoever that was in the audience, thank you very much indeed. There's many people here. Thank you. So South Morton had a little office and I started making really beautiful jewelry. I had whatever I could. I got a loan from a friend and I started buying old stones again. And I said, I'm just going to make really cool stuff. And it happened. And I'm going to tell you an amazing story, actually, if I'm going to tell you an incredible story that I don't tell often. I made this jewelry, but I sat there with my son. You know, I can do this, but it's really tough. The chairman of Christie's at that time was someone I knew and he really liked me.

[Carol Houlton]

Francois Kerry.

[Glenn Spiro]

No, no, it was a guy called Christopher Davidge and he was the chairman worldwide of thing. I knew Francois then, but he was the chairman. He said, glenn, we'd love you to come to Christie's. I said, ah, never worked for any. It's been ages. I'm now young man, but I'm cracking. Glenn, I. We'd like you to create jewelry for Christie's and come in with us to help us with the gems. I said, it's not hard. And I was this. But I used to go home when Joe was born. And I went, I can't have money. It's so difficult. And it's lovely making it, but there's a balance here, as we know, with 99% of the people in our industry. And I asked someone one day, I knew, a man, was my first wife's cousin, was a man called Gilbert de Botton, Young Global Asset Management. He certainly doesn't know me very well, but he was very successful. As much as I love my family, I didn't actually have a mentor or someone to ask. I went along to his office and I said, here's the situation. Christ, is there me here? And he said. He sat me in his desk. He went, he got an A4 paper. And he went, this is the world. And he got his pencil sharp and his pencil, and he went, this is England. This is London. Did you live in London? And Tommy goes, my pencil will not go in the dot. But if you remain on your own, it's a 99.9%. You will stay in the dots. But if you go to Christie's, you will see the world. Don't follow the dollar, follow your heart. All right? Whoa. He said. And I left there. I walked. He was in St. James. I walked straight into Christie's office and I took the job there and then for very little money, and they made me head of la. There was no office, there was nothing.

[Carol Houlton]

So you built it.

[Glenn Spiro]

He said, look, maybe you can do. So I said, look, don't pay me, I'll do something. And we did a deal, and he let me go. And I built that into a mate. And Hong Kong, because you work very close to Hong Kong and New York.

[Carol Houlton]

So they had a massive trust.

[Glenn Spiro]

They just said, go. I didn't take them. I said, look, you don't let me try. I became head of their jewelry department, Francois making the pieces. And dare I say, it was. It was. I can't tell you how I saw things in the world. Why would I see the world? Most people, you, You. You pop in and pop out. I saw the world through the Christie's eyes. People come in to see. And I go, who are you? You know, whether it was Estelle Order family or people from Asia or the whole family, people. I go, wow. So then I had confidence.

[Carol Houlton]

Did that build up because you have quite a kind of celebrity following. Is that where.

[Glenn Spiro]

No, no. So just to say one thing. Firstly, it. I didn't look at that. It just gave me the confidence. There are people in the world that love great things, not just the 12 I know that live around the Corner and over there, or you read the, you know, the newspaper. There are some very, very extraordinary people in the world. That was amazing to give you the confidence to start following your, your dream to make great things. And then when I left Christie's because I wanted to live back in London, I miss London. I came back 20, 20 odd years ago. I decided to create things. But I never, never had a maintenance. Didn't have any. I didn't. Not one of them. Not one, not one. Not because I shouldn't have done. I actually forgot. It's the truth to be told, but the truth is I. I think I've really done everything in my own way and I think I want it to be real. I didn't want to be a jeweler that needed to sell. I wanted to be me. And, you know, it's a great feeling. Actually. I said to my son, actually not long ago, I said, you know, I've only ever felt really successful the last five to eight years. And because I'm me, I don't care. Because I think I'm an alright guy, I think I'm honest. I don't know anyone a penny. Everything's paid for. Every single thing is the stuff that me and my team. It's not just me. I'm not a designer, I'm a creative director. I will sit here and I scream at Chubb. I can't get my point across. But I know what I want to say and it's lucky I've got a few people. I go, he wants to donate. That's it. That, that thing. And it comes out how I want it.

[Carol Houlton]

So you don't draw?

[Glenn Spiro]

No, I don't draw, but I do do wax. I do wax sometimes, but I look, I know my stones. I think my son and the team will tell you when I see something. I go, I paid world record prices. And you go, why? Because I love it. I don't care. I don't care. But I know it's not just the value. I trust my nose for beauty.

[Carol Houlton]

We're so done with New Year. New you this year it's more you on Bumble. More of you shamelessly sending playlists, especially that one filled with show tunes. More of you finding Geminis because you know you always like them. More of you dating with intention because you know what you want.

[Glenn Spiro]

And you know what?

[Carol Houlton]

We love that for you. Someone else will too. Be more you this year and find them on Bumble.

[Glenn Spiro]

My son called me in an article once which I nearly got upset about, but actually I think he Said my dad's an erratic genius. Do you know, Actually, I think. I don't say I'm a genius, but I do think when I look at my box and the jewelry that comes out, I think, why would you make that? It's. It's not. I don't. No one wants it, but till they see it. And I think that's what I'm excited about.

[Carol Houlton]

One thing I remember years ago that you showed me was that you'd found an old sort of 50s gold mesh evening bag and you cut it up and you made this.

[Glenn Spiro]

It's so nice.

[Carol Houlton]

With. Were they aquamarines?

[Glenn Spiro]

No, no, no, they were. I've had two. One was with emeralds. All that's in the book. And then I made another one with diamonds.

[Carol Houlton]

They were just so beautiful.

[Glenn Spiro]

It was. That was the old handbag, really beautiful. And that was two sisters fighting over a handbag. They went to put it in auction and they asked me, I said, look, I was at Christie's at the time and they said, can we put. I said, look, why don't you put it in very low? Because I actually wanted to buy it and by chance I paid, but I bought it myself. I literally sliced it down, then cut them. They were so. The wide top. Yes, Beautiful. They're really lovely.

[Carol Houlton]

So I think that's what Beyonce means when she calls you brave. Because actually you show me a lot of stuff when I come around. And there might be like a wooden bangle, like a cuff, like almost like a tribal cuff, but then it'll have this 20 carat golconda diamond in the middle. And it's a sort of mixing of things and the way you'll set some extraordinarily rare stone.

[Glenn Spiro]

Very simply, if you go back, this fella here, Mr. Cartier, that's all his original drawings, they didn't make those in those days. Remember that? That's a maverick. Made fabulous things. If you took the old. If I go back the Bvlgary days, they were mavericks, you know, they were Van Cleef. They'll be fabulous today. They're great brands, but they are. They have enormous financial exposure. They have shareholders. And once you got people on your. How much you've got to make, you got to have real courage to step out and say, let's just make what we love. No, we make what the customer wants. And I think it takes real guts to create something. And you look at and go, I like it. And I've done that. I have spent a lot of money and I'm looking And I've gone all the way because I thought so don't waste. You might go. And at the end I go, you know what? No, we've done the button. It's not, it's. I've seen a woman put it on and they will give me a proper check. Millions of dollars for that thing. I'm so sorry. It's not right. The girls will tell you. They'll come in and take the story. She's. I, I love it. I went. I don't. And I can't give it to you.

[Carol Houlton]

You go back to the door and.

[Glenn Spiro]

I take the stones out and start again. And I'm not doing that to be clever because, trust me, I go home with a knot in my stallity, a waste of energy. But I actually don't like. If I don't like it. I think that's the pleasure I have now. I really.

[Carol Houlton]

You can indulge.

[Glenn Spiro]

I can indulge and, And I want to. I want to love what comes out of it, even to the packaging, even the boxes I like to make, even the way I. I don't know, the way it's present. I just love the thing. I actually really do love the thing in there. Derek's. I don't make cheap things. When I say cheap, I think that's good value.

[Carol Houlton]

And you never know who's going to buy it.

[Glenn Spiro]

I have no idea, but I. No, I have no idea. Actually, I don't care. Do you know? I do care, but I don't care. I just know. Do you know someone will come in or you just bump in and say, you need to come in Tuesday, come Tuesday, I'll give you something. And I think 9.9 out of 10 and they. Can I see something else? No. I can sit at a table with anyone, I'm proud, whoever, but I do not socialize to make a sale. There's no question that this product has allowed me to befriend in 30 years some really cool people. Most of them are not my customers. They're not my customers. 80%, maybe 90, are not my customer, but they're there. But the people close to them become customers.

[Carol Houlton]

So how did Balesick come to you?

[Glenn Spiro]

I'm a friend. I'm very friendly with Jay. I just. We're good, we're proper friends. We before anything. And he's. He is. There's. I've a lot. Just friends, not customers. I know they're just good people.

[Carol Houlton]

But then she bought this butterfly.

[Glenn Spiro]

She bought a Papillon.

[Carol Houlton]

She bought your papillon. Butterfly.

[Glenn Spiro]

And.

[Carol Houlton]

And then she.

[Glenn Spiro]

She loves museums. Loves.

[Carol Houlton]

So she donated it to the va. Yeah, I said I'd cover it in Vogue. And actually, I don't know whether you know this. It was very funny because we shot it in a studio and the curator at the time at the va, Richard Edgecombe, had to.

[Glenn Spiro]

Yes, yes.

[Carol Houlton]

He had to bring it very carefully to the studio. Now, Richard Edgecombe, for anyone, is exactly what you imagine, of course, to be like, because he lives, breathes, academia. He literally lived in the eaves of the va, working all the time, and just a sort of brilliant man, but not one that you'd expect on a Vogue shoot. So Richard came, you know, we were talking about the butterfly and shooting it, and he said to me, carol, I do believe that it was owned by someone called jz. And I said, but I have it jc.

[Glenn Spiro]

He was really nice, actually. And I can't say I'm not proud to have something there, you know, And I've been asked for a few other things that I haven't done because, well.

[Carol Houlton]

They have told me it was the most visited piece.

[Glenn Spiro]

Yeah, they said it's.

[Carol Houlton]

The number was extraordinary and it's just galvanized young people to come into the gallery and have a look.

[Glenn Spiro]

And she did a great thing. Look. She said to me once, we are artists. Do you know, I think we are artists, actually. I think anyone who takes something to be something that you believe in, you write a song. My daughter now is an artist or singer, but they. She writes stuff that's from here. This stuff here is no question here. I don't lie, but I eat from here because I know it and I love it. And I don't know the historic stuff. I read it, but I forget it very quickly because I keep looking at the colors. My son is. Is. Is knowledgeable of so much more than me, but I just know my nose is good. Not physically, but my nose is good. I look at it and. And it just. I don't know, I. I looked. It didn't come by mistake.

[Carol Houlton]

But what we forgot to say about the Balesit piece was that it moved.

[Glenn Spiro]

So the wings, there was a mechanism, but that was. My daughter, by the way, in Saint Tropez, went to a flea market. There was something moving and I'm watching. I said, can I borrow that? You can buy it. You just bought it.

[Carol Houlton]

Oh, she loves it.

[Glenn Spiro]

You can buy it because I'm not doing it. I went, okay. And we took it apart and then we made that mechanism. That mechanism is perfect. I love that. Stuff. But I've now moved on to a much more sophisticated, smaller group of really cool jewelry. And I dare to say that the materials of the old world that we make today, without question. I have the pleasure of having my son work with me. He introduced me to things where I was collecting artifacts. He actually put them together and added to those artifacts.

[Carol Houlton]

So these are ancient.

[Glenn Spiro]

These are absolutely ancient. From Mesopotamia, from Bioli, which is African 17th century. And the original idea, which was maybe my son's idea originally, let's make a boutique line with these things that are more affordable. And I said, no, it's not that people don't want to spend money. If you go out today and you want to buy yourself a blue suit or a blue dress, you say, I'm spending a thousand pounds on a blue suit or a blue dress. And you come home with you found one you really like at 150, you are not happy because you set your mind up because it can't be the same. So we've created jewelry with real gems, real stones with these artifacts that when someone puts them firstly, I think styles change. The big Winston era. Sorry, Mr. Winston, but big stone diamonds. We have great stones just in white with platinum with. It seems to have passed a little bit, but it doesn't mean diamonds are out of fashion. Great stones are fabulous pinks and blues, but they're in woods and they're materials and they're in bronze and they. There's a more ethnic y style, a more chic style where you can go out and go, this drop dead necklace. And they go. But it's cool when I've got this stuff. Do you know, sometimes we pick up things. I've had stones that are not good.

[Carol Houlton]

So you feel it.

[Glenn Spiro]

I have had a stone that's not good. It's a lot of money. Has never got anywhere. It's in Geneva and I don't like it. I loved it in the picture. I bought it from a picture. I knew the stone through the glass and I bought it blind. And it's. I own it for nothing. It's a lot of them are, but cheap. But I don't like the stone.

[Carol Houlton]

So you feel it's past life.

[Glenn Spiro]

Every time I put it somewhere, there's something not. I do believe in energy. I do believe in. I've had stones that just joy.

[Carol Houlton]

And so when you go for materials of the old world, where do you find these now again, do you travel to find them?

[Glenn Spiro]

Yes. And look, it would be if you bought special furniture once in a while people see you buying that type of furniture. It's amazing how your phone. Hello, we have some. When people do find who's in the market to buy. We're now probably one of the main people buying these things. I know people that have bought it, that I bought it from them because they go, I just don't know what to do with it. Actually. I go, what you buy for? I don't know. I saw you and I looked at it with a white gold chain. Now went, it's not what it's for. So I think it either fits in with your thing or it doesn't.

[Carol Houlton]

It's sort of in the same frame as when Cartier were setting all the old Egyptian artifacts.

[Glenn Spiro]

It's definitely that. And it's also in the same frame as Bulgari when they made the Roma coins. Do you remember the ro. That was. I would go as far to say you'll know much more than I. Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think. I don't want to be a brag. I think what we are doing now with this collection. I'm going to show you something.

[Carol Houlton]

Yeah.

[Glenn Spiro]

I would go say in the 30 years I've been in this business, I think it's one of the greatest collections coming through. I'm not joking. I swear. I look at it and go, it's really, really good. It's just so good.

[Carol Houlton]

I think the first time I saw it was a few years ago in New York. And you were at the Mark Hotel. And I think, did Gwyneth Paltrow wear it?

[Glenn Spiro]

Yes. She wore those old. They're beautiful earrings. Look, you're deleted. So I'm going to show you how.

[Carol Houlton]

Important, actually, because that was the first time I saw. And you had that long piece of carnelian.

[Glenn Spiro]

Yes, yes.

[Carol Houlton]

There you go.

[Glenn Spiro]

There you go. How lovely was that? Beautiful.

[Carol Houlton]

But how important is it that someone like Gwyneth Paltrow wears it?

[Glenn Spiro]

Or is that.

[Carol Houlton]

I know, but is that important? The red carpet look, we don't lend anything.

[Glenn Spiro]

No, I don't lend any jewelry. Not for any other reason that I don't have to do the paperwork. And I don't want to chase people. And to be honest, if you made something sensational like this, I'm going to show you. And I lent it to someone. It would only be for marketing. And I presume you're then getting out there more and more. I only need 40 customers. I don't. I can't do any more than that.

[Carol Houlton]

How many pieces do you make a year?

[Glenn Spiro]

150, 200. We sell a lot of stuff. We punch way above our weight. So I'm going to show you something beautiful. May I?

[Carol Houlton]

Yes.

[Glenn Spiro]

So this is called the Bioli Dream. So this just finished, if you can see. So just to give you an idea, so these are all very, very ancient turquoise beads. You need many, many, many, many, many more to finish at this. So that is collecting bit by bit by bit. Bags and bags and bags.

[Carol Houlton]

But they're graduated as well.

[Glenn Spiro]

So then you look at the finish. This is bioli. This is 17th century. This was a brooch that they used to make. So if you look now, then this beautiful cognac diamond in the middle, you see? And if you look at the back, fabulous. So this now is worn.

[Carol Houlton]

So where was that made? Where was the Biola birch made?

[Glenn Spiro]

This was made in the 17th century in Africa. It's an African tribe. It's all gold. Look at this. All done by hand. All uneven, but beautiful. I mean, fabulous. I just added our twist. These were added. And then what happens is you remove. You remove this. I made this beautiful old chain, which is my style of seven strands. This comes off and it sits on here. So literally, you sit with this gold thing, which is just cool as hell. And then you can wear this on its own, just as the color is exact. This is couture, whether you like it or even the finish at the back. You know how we finish everything? It's all done. It's a real piece of art. Yes, that's what I think. And it's gone. But it stays with me now. For three years I told, that's the.

[Carol Houlton]

One, this is the one. Okay?

[Glenn Spiro]

And I said, no, you can't, please leave.

[Carol Houlton]

So this is. This goes back to the Simon Cowell references as the X factor.

[Glenn Spiro]

Yes. I think, look, it's not forever. Don't get me wrong. You have to be confident, cool chic, has style, have confidence. People go, who's it? It's not born. I don't say all the names. It's my piece. When you go into any business, I actually don't have the drive to build a big business because I don't believe jewelry is a big business. I still don't believe jewelry is what I think. The low end is a big business.

[Carol Houlton]

Yeah.

[Glenn Spiro]

The middle end is a lesser business. And the high end is a small business. In my opinion, when you see great art galleries, it is not a business to have 250, 300 stores around the world selling magnificent art. We have the gallery there. We have one there. And we work with. You can sell a billion dollars, but you know, it's done quietly, humbly, and. And with a few people. We're in that part of the world with great things. But I think you need three things. You need to have some sort of talent. The rest is your hustle and how you work ethic. But you have that talent that you believe in. But that's why few people get through the.

[Carol Houlton]

Yeah.

[Glenn Spiro]

Through the tube. You know, you can't all. It's not that big. It's a little tube that's up. It's not easy. So this is bioli. This is. This is perfect.

[Carol Houlton]

This is absolutely.

[Glenn Spiro]

These are all old cartoon 1950s citrines that I collected. This is all b. I just think that's an old or trapezoid. That's just. Instead of. More looks will come to that today than the other side.

[Carol Houlton]

Do you know what that was symbolic of that.

[Glenn Spiro]

They used to be. They used to be lizards and things that I've got. I don't know if they're here. I think there's one here actually with the lizard.

[Carol Houlton]

So what sort of animal.

[Glenn Spiro]

Look, I'm going to show you something else actually. When you finish that, you like this.

[Carol Houlton]

Okay, that's beautiful. Beautiful, beautiful.

[Glenn Spiro]

And now look at this. I'm just giving you a small selection on the. On the materials of the old world. So this is a 14th century garnet. I found it. Found this in the middle of nowhere. But look how chic this is. But you see the devil. It's Gemini.

[Carol Houlton]

It is.

[Glenn Spiro]

You see the devil head? It's beautiful. So now we found these old spinels.

[Carol Houlton]

Beautiful.

[Glenn Spiro]

This is the color of them. I mean to me. That to me is jewelry. You see that on a woman in a beautiful cream sitting around that.

[Carol Houlton]

You want to know.

[Glenn Spiro]

You want to know and say, Michael, what are those? Or you've got two daughters or something. I think that's a piece of art.

[Carol Houlton]

It's one very light as well.

[Glenn Spiro]

Yeah. I mean I can show you ends on. I'm just giving you a. I know.

[Carol Houlton]

So what comes after materials of the.

[Glenn Spiro]

I don't. Well, we have some. But the truth is I've got a little bit of an ongoing argument with my son now because my son has this another idea which I'm. I get it. I'm not going to say what is. It's more futuristic. But I don't think we've scratched the surface with this yet. I think it would be a terrible shame to stop what we're doing because I think we've just started. You've seen the book, you know, material. They're cool stuff. And I haven't gone anywhere. We got three hours, you said very quick. So this is all a collection of vivid cognacs. And this is in black and silver and titanium.

[Carol Houlton]

So it's the wings.

[Glenn Spiro]

So if you look on the ear, it sits. You see the color. It's very nice on me.

[Carol Houlton]

Don't you need brings out your teeth.

[Glenn Spiro]

Of course, it says the other teeth. You know, I follow on Instagram some people are really successful who come whether it's in sports, whether it's, you know, I've got this guy that Rich Paul is a guy in basketball who's a basketball agent from the streets. He's LeBron's. They grew up together for nothing. Probably I'll be the biggest agent today. Another guy, Ruby's got this company fanatics such as how do you build this monsters up? You know, are we successful? Yeah, I look today I'm successful. I. I might. I have a different life to my parents. I think that, you know, we have a different life. Not is it better? It's just different. It's a different life. We're successful in what we do. I think you need to not follow most people today. I think when you get a job, you do the job. You do exactly what you're told to do. Some people though, step back and go, hold on a minute, hold on. If we do it that way, we might get there quicker and be able to do two things at the same time. Most people look at the time and go, I start at nine and I leave at five. And that's what I'm sorry, one o'clock is lunchtime. Three o'clock we have a cup of tea. There's nothing wrong with that. But some people, like a Ronaldo or a Messi, they get there at 8:15 in the morning, not 9:00. And then when everyone leaves at 4, they seem to stay till 7. You know, I think it's that extra mile of hard work, extra mile of perfecting whatever little talent you've got to become a great talent. Finding a way to get from here to there. When they say you can't, but you can because you can go that way backwards and come back this way. Find an answer to a problem. Just going there for a million hours, I don't think that makes you successful. It just means you haven't got anywhere nicer to go and you want to stay there. But a reason for staying, you want to stay in that you want to do something I want. You know, I'm going to answer the last email. Why? Because the morning they get up in the morning, that person will have the answer. They have to wait in America till the next day. I want to have it today. There's no definitive, oh, how do you do it? Believe in yourself. Crying is good.

[Carol Houlton]

And also, it doesn't happen immediately.

[Glenn Spiro]

No. By the way, I just told you I'm 62 and I've been successful for a fairly long time, but I've never felt successful. And I swear to only the five to eight years I got, you know what I am, I have done it. I actually, actually that could be the problem here, actually, because now I'm looking, thinking, what next? I know I love maturity. I make that stuff there really excites me. But you do get someone going, okay, what next? Your mind's always challenged. But I think that thing challenged me getting it right with my son, making sure we can build this together. Me learning from him. Because it's not easy. I'm sure, working with your dad, you know, I'm not an easy guy, but I'm trying to be better and to do it right in some way. Just life. You just go through the motions of life. You just want to. Do I need to say that naughty word again? Stuff better. You want to do stuff better and find a way. And I think if you make sure you surround yourself with really good people that are better than you, your game gets better there. You know, if you play a guy tennis, you beat him six love. Six love. See? And then he's six one, six, he's getting better, you're getting worse. So you be the six that will get your game better. That's what I think. Get your game better by people who are better than you. And you look at them go. Actually, that's good because the other ones are more exciting, but they're good. So you have to have that balance, I think.

[Carol Houlton]

Well, thank you. Thank you for sharing that.

[Glenn Spiro]

Thank you.

[Carol Houlton]

The world according to Glenn.

[Glenn Spiro]

Well, I hope that's not the wrong way.

[Carol Houlton]

Make stuff better and we'll come back and see what you do next.

[Glenn Spiro]

Thank you very much. And I'm very proud. After all these, you came here to say hello. I really appreciate you do this thing with me. Thank you.

[Carol Houlton]

No, thank you.

[Glenn Spiro]

Thank you for another Marcus success. Thank you to our audience, everyone there. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you. Ciao, ciao.

[Carol Houlton]

Thank you for listening. For this and other episodes of if Jules could talk, please go to our website. Carolwilton.com share it any way you can and we love to have a rating in a comment. We're on YouTube, Instagram, errolwilton and the book of the podcast is available in all good bookstores and on Amazon. If Jules Could Talk and join me again in two weeks for the next jewelled nugget. I'm not going to tell you too much, but we'll be inside a genuine icon in London. So join me then and thank you for listening. Bye Bye. If Jules Could Talk with Carole Walton is produced by Natasha Cowan Music and editing by Tim Thornton. Graphics by Scott Bentley Illustration by Jordi labander.

[Glenn Spiro]

Unexplored catacombs buried beneath the city. A crumbling castle perched on a mountain peak. A top secret government bunker. A cursed mansion cloaked in legend.

[Carol Houlton]

I'm Sascha Oyerbakh.

[Glenn Spiro]

Join me and Tom Ward every Wednesday and Sunday as we reveal the mysteries and histories of abandoned places around the world and ask where did everyone go? Brought to you by Like a shot Makers of Forbidden History Search for Where did everyone Go? On your favorite podcast platform.