THE PRINCESS AND COSTUME JEWELS AT BUTLER & WILSON

Summary

Podcast Summary: "THE PRINCESS AND COSTUME JEWELS AT BUTLER & WILSON"

Introduction to Butler & Wilson

In the March 20, 2025 episode of If Jewels Could Talk with Carol Woolton, host Carol Woolton delves into the illustrious history of Butler & Wilson, a cornerstone of London's Fulham Road jewelry scene. Established over 50 years ago, Butler & Wilson has remained a beacon of costume jewelry, maintaining its charm and relevance despite the ever-changing retail landscape.

Simon Wilson’s Journey: From Hairdresser to Costume Jeweler

Simon Wilson, the force behind Butler & Wilson, shares his unconventional path to the jewelry industry. Initially a hairdresser, Simon recounts his early career:

“I was good at doing hair. It was all fringes and huge, big ponytails and whatever.” [04:00]

Working for prestigious clients like Princess Caroline, Simon realized he didn’t want to remain in the traditional hairdressing role. This realization propelled him into the world of costume jewelry, partnering with Nikki Butler to explore antique markets and eventually establish their own store.

Building an Iconic Brand: Celebrity Endorsements and Vogue

Butler & Wilson's rise to prominence is significantly attributed to strategic collaborations with fashion icons and publications. Simon highlights their first major breakthrough:

“She [Catherine Deneuve] was so great. She was our first billboard.” [09:08]

The collaboration with Catherine Deneuve not only elevated their brand but also attracted other celebrities and top photographers like Helmut Newton and Terry O'Neill. Their features in Vogue further solidified their status:

“Grace Coddington... said, if you lend me stuff, I'll use it. And five beauty shots packed with vintage jewelry. It was amazing.” [13:04]

Influences and Design Philosophy

Simon Wilson emphasizes the importance of originality and quality in Butler & Wilson's offerings. Drawing inspiration from Art Deco and Scottish jewelry, the store prides itself on unique, one-of-a-kind pieces:

“It has to be new, all original, all the time. You’re not going to be able to buy anything anywhere else.” [14:37]

Their approach blends vintage aesthetics with contemporary fashion, ensuring that each piece resonates with both timeless elegance and modern trends.

Memorable Encounters with Celebrities

Throughout the podcast, Simon shares enchanting anecdotes of interactions with renowned personalities. From Princess Diana frequenting the store discreetly:

“Diana always came in, bought her own pieces, never hassled. And she was stunning.” [26:09]

To surprising encounters with Tom Ford:

“I put the bags down and he said, ‘You’re Tom Ford?’ ... he tried every jacket on and loved the jewelry.” [29:56]

These stories underscore the store's allure and its ability to attract and satisfy high-profile clientele.

The Art of Costume Jewelry and Its Impact on Confidence

Simon discusses how costume jewelry from Butler & Wilson empowers wearers by adding flair and confidence to their attire. He shares a poignant story about an American customer:

“She bought a $12,000 Comme des Garcon dress and a £58 Big Spider necklace. When others ignored the dress, they adored the spider, making her feel noticed and confident.” [39:07]

This philosophy emphasizes the transformative power of jewelry, allowing individuals to express their unique style and feel celebrated.

The Evolution of Jewelry Fashion and Retail in 50 Years

Reflecting on five decades in the industry, Simon observes significant shifts in how women wear jewelry and the retail environment:

“Before, there were hundreds of jewelry shops in London. Now, I'm one of the only ones left doing what I do.” [41:11]

He laments the decline of brick-and-mortar stores and the rise of online shopping, highlighting the challenges of maintaining personal connections and the tactile experience of selecting jewelry in-store.

Conclusion: The Legacy of Butler & Wilson

In concluding the episode, Simon Wilson expresses gratitude and a heartfelt commitment to continuing Butler & Wilson's legacy:

“Don't be greedy. I have a beautiful house, a great shop, I can still function and do what I want. This has given me a lifestyle that I've loved and will carry on until I drop.” [43:55]

Carol Woolton wraps up by celebrating Butler & Wilson's enduring presence in the jewelry world, encouraging listeners to explore their unique pieces and experience the magic that has made them a beloved institution for over half a century.

Notable Quotes:

• “She was stunning. She was stunning.” – Simon Wilson about Princess Diana [27:22]

• “If something is beautiful, it's always beautiful.” – Simon Wilson on jewelry philosophy [17:03]

• “You must wear it if it's got to be comfortable.” – Simon Wilson on wearing jewelry [42:40]

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a captivating glimpse into the world of Butler & Wilson, showcasing the blend of passion, creativity, and resilience that sustains a brand over generations. Through Simon Wilson's stories and insights, listeners gain an appreciation for the artistry and personal connections that make costume jewelry more than just accessories—it becomes a means of storytelling and self-expression.

Transcript

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[Simon Wilson]

I had an American customer come in. She said, I've just bought a twelve thousand dollar com de Gato dress for my daughter's wedding. She then bought the 58 pound big spider that you wore over your shoulder. And I said, fabulous, you're going to look great. She came in about six months later and she said, I am never speaking to you again. I said, well, what's the matter? Not one person mentioned the $12,000 dress. All they were saying was, wow, where did you get that spider? I said, well, at least they noticed it all. So, you know, that's. I'll go with what I love and if other people love it, then great.

[Carol Woolton]

I'm Carol Houton, the voice of jewellery. Welcome to if Jules Could Talk. I'm an author and broadcaster and the woman who initiated the role of jewellery editor at magazines like Tatler and Vogue. This is a podcast for everyone, for people who do like jewellery, for people who don't realise they like jewellery, and anyone intrigued by fascinating facts, new ideas and forgotten histories. So join me as I tell sparkly tales and meet all sorts of people delving into four centuries of jewelry culture and investigate what's happening now. Hello, thank you for joining me on if Jules Could Talk Inside the Icon. That is Butler and Wilson on the Fulham Road. Now you can tell we're on London's busy Fulham Road because you're going to hear a little bit of traffic noise and Simon Love story, what can I say? His bangles, you will hear them a little in his enthusiasm to talk. Jewels do talk and you will hear them. But thank you for joining us and I hope you enjoy it.

[Simon Wilson]

I'm here in London's Fulham Road inside an icon. This is an icon that's been here for over 50 years. Whilst other brands have moved open new stores, Butler and Wilson have quietly dominated the world of costume jewelry from their one original store, which has become a landmark. So for anyone who isn't in England, if it's not on your must visit list, when you come to London, it should be. And I'm talking this morning with Simon Wilson. Thank you for hosting Us.

Simon, great to see you. This is my first podcast, by the way.

Well, we're thrilled. We like to have everything first on a dual school talk. So we're thrilled. Now, in 2019, you celebrated your 50 year anniversary and this is what I wrote in Vogue. Over the last 50 years, London's Fulham Road has changed. Shops, fashions and people have all come and gone. With one exception. Butler and Wilson. The iconic small store crammed with glitz, as big as the Ritz, endures as busy as ever. And that's true.

And that is true.

But Simon, you started small when you left Scotland, came to London to make your fortune, but at that time you were a hairdresser. So, Simon, tell us how you began in costume jewellery.

You know, I was good at doing hair. It was as simple as that. But it was hair. It was all fringes and huge, big ponytails and whatever.

So this was Princess Margaret's hairdresser.

This is Rani's in South Alder Street.

Did you ever do Princess Margaret's hair?

I did Princess Caroline's hair, but they were. Because really was extraordinary French. Amazing, amazing guy. And so you met them all. But I thought, I don't want to be an old hairdresser. So I started and you know, Nikki Butler and I met through everybody telling us we looked alike. And we formed this thing that we do, antiques. So we did Bermondsey Portobello and then we started in a small stall in antiquaries on the King's Road, which was great.

Antiquaries. Sadly no more.

Neither is the King's Road. It was everything I always promised. I would never say, but in my time it was great. But it changed. So we were there. But in my mind I was all fashion orientated. So even with the antiques, we would do amber beads, but it would to be to go with different outfits. Beautiful, beautiful. Because the quality was always great. And our main thing was Art deco, which was 1925 to 1934 or something. Way ahead of its time. Timeless.

And you could find pieces at that.

Time, you could find pieces and they were beautiful and the prices were great. But then it started to disappear.

Yep.

So we thought, okay, we did replicas of, say, enamel butterflies, pieces of things like that. And then I just thought, you know, I want to do fashion. That was towards. Well, during the 70s things started changing and I was doing different things. I did the Vision street lights in 1979, I think I was one of the last to actually design the lights. And they did them in 79, 1980s. And so I Was looking for what to do. And I thought, I want to start making. I want to start doing fashion. Jewelry, you know, jewelry that. And it was the beginning of the 80s.

Had you always loved fashion?

Always loved fashion, the antique stuff. Even though beautiful Victorian, Georgian, Art deco. I would related it to fashion.

What did you see growing up that made you love fashion?

I just loved it even at school. I mean, originally it was going to be a technical engineer and a footballer.

There are so many careers you could have had, Simon.

So many. I was useless at all of them.

But you chose the right one.

And then I said to my sister dying, I worked in Singer's sewing machine factory. I was an apprentice, a night school three nights a week and at a T square. And I said to my sister, you know this tea thing for doing whatever it was. I said, I don't know how to do any of this. This is not a career. And she said, well, be a hairdresser. I said, how do I become a hairdresser? So I was a hairdresser. I started in a place called Liverani in Glasgow, which he was the world champion. It was extraordinary. I just knew how to do hair. You're supposed to do three years, two years apprenticeship and then be on the floor. I was on the floor in six months. But then he offered between two of us, a guy called Evan Rusk and me to become manager. I was 19 and I thought, I don't want to be an old. I love hairdressers.

Yeah.

But I thought, I don't want to be an old hairdresser. I thought in 19, I thought, I just have to go. So I went to Spain, met Joseph that started Models 1. I was like a child. I stood with them for a year. We traveled everywhere and they brought me back to London and I started.

So you were with the cool people?

I was. They took me to Abu Farah, which. There was nothing there. It was a village. And then I came back with all of them.

So you're at Antiquarius. Art deco is running out, you can't find it. So you want to design fashion jewelry. And what was your original idea? Was it that you thought everybody should wear costume or costume could be as fabulous as fine. What did you think?

Well, I was never. It was really about. It was towards the late 70s, into the 80s and the 80s was Mugler and Claude Montana and it was all big shoulders and very kind of masculine. You get these big chokers. And I worked. One of the factuals worked with was called Femina Aaron Chiswick. And I Started working with them. And we did the big choker, we did the dancing couple. We did big chokers. Dancing couple. Huge, big bracelets that all the magazines wanted. That's what really started us. And at the same time, I came and I bought the small shop in Fulham Road from an amazing woman. And we got two billboards that came with 6ft billboards.

Because you were on the corner.

On the corner. And they were private billboards. And funny enough, I just saw them on a date. Elena Contura, who's the won four Oscars for costume design, she came in with Catherine Denev and it was extraordinary. So beautiful. And I said, she's got these billboards. Would you be our first billboard? This is when it was cool. She was so great.

She was probably living here with David Bailey at the time.

No.

[Carol Woolton]

Was she married to David Bailey?

[Simon Wilson]

I think that was over.

Okay.

And I said to her, oh, listen, would you be our first billboard? She said, absolutely. I said, oh, how much would I have to pay you? Yes. Know, like a child. How much would I have to pay you? She was Catherine Deneuve. She. You didn't pay me anything. You guys have been amazing. Bailey Studio, 8 o'clock, Thursday night.

Oh, my God.

That was. It went there. Bailey was great. He treated me as if I was eight years old. Fabulous. Got the picture, put it up.

So even though she'd broken up, she'd split up between.

Oh, yeah, they were still friends.

He'd do it for her.

And I didn't put a lot of jewelry on. I just did a little double pearl and a great pair of earrings and that was it. So then from then we get people coming in and I bought the shop next. I bought the shop next door that used to be Valerie Goad, who did all the dark. Those dresses, debutante dresses. So then we got people, Faye, dunno, would come in and would say, oh, would you? Because we never published this time.

You're attracting all the celebrities, all the fashion editors, all the people, you know.

That said Faye Dunaway. Oh, would you do a billboard? Well, who else has done it, Catherine? I'll do it.

It's amazing. It's amazing.

And then the other thing that happened is all the photographers got in the competition. Well, who's done it, Bailey? I had Helmut Newton, I had Terry O'Neill. All of this was done.

All the great photographers. All the great photographers for nothing. Did you give them some jewellery?

Nothing.

And so you had Faye Dunaway.

I mean, it was extraordinary.

I mean, it is amazing.

It was that era.

Yes and no. Celebrity endorsement. No one was doing that.

And I'm saying, I'm not doing this to put it on the Internet. It wasn't happening much then. I'm doing it because you love our jewelry. It was really extraordinary. And that lasted till 1990. And I went. I used to go with these trips with Sassoons. Best haircutters in the world. All the people I ever like cut my hair. And there was a girl on there, they were paying 100 quid a day. We went to Barcelona and I thought, it's unusual looking. I said, listen, I'd love to do a photograph of you. Came back to London and she said, oh, that's my agent. And I called this guy and I said, I want to use her for our billboards. Thinking he'd be thrilled. He said, oh, that'll be £5,000 a day. I said, what are you talking about? He said, well, how much do you pay Catherine Deneuve? I said, that's none of your business and you're an idiot. And I hung the phone. And then I realized, that's the end of the 80s. Yes, a whole new era is about to start. So I took them off. But we had everybody in with. And it's when celebrities.

Did you have Brooke Shields at one point, I'm sure.

Yeah, I think you did everybody. Yeah, because they bought. They did their own. We had all the fashion editors who came and chose all their own pieces. You know, it was just the time before it all changed.

And I think when Vogue originally started coming in, you weren't that thrilled, were you?

Well, we were an antiquarist. We were tiny and, you know, the entrance was coming in and say, I want this, I want this. And then we'd see a picture of a little woman in a tree with a tiny little brooch. I said, this is not happening.

So because you thought it was a waste of time.

Waste of time. And I was fashion orientated, you know, I said, it's Vogue. Vogue was. I buy every magazine, but Vogue was Vogue.

Vogue was big.

So they kind of said, we don't lend to you. What do you mean you? We're Vogue. I said, I know, and we don't lend to you. So I did. Was without thinking, you did it for a year. Then Grace Coddington came in. He said, simon, I promise you.

Great fashion editor who was British Vogue, went on to be creative director of American Vogue. Still working. And it's still working.

She was a great friend. Said, I promise you, if you lend me stuff, I'll use it. I'm going around the corner to Barry Latkin Studio. I've got the picture there with three models and I said, okay, we'll try it this once. Three months later I opened the page. So it started us off. And five beauty shots close up, close up packed with vintage jewellery. It was amazing. And then Grace and I became really great friends. So that was what started. As soon as Vogue used you, everybody wanted to use you.

So people were coming in, word was getting round. What do you think that you were doing differently? Was it the detail you were putting into this costume jewelry? Was it the fact that costume jewelry hadn't been cool? What do you think was it that was different?

Well, I always stuck with what I believed in and I expanded into. Kept the whole feeling of more or less it's one of a kind, it's something. You're not going to be able to buy anything anywhere else. It's got to be new, new, all original, all the time. I mean, I went into buying vintage clothing, but 1920s beautiful vintage clothing, better than you would have seen at the va. I'm the quickest buyer in the world. You tell me a price, what's the best price? That's it. I'm not gonna spend half an hour to save 50 quid. And it was extra. So there was always something new. Something new, original you couldn't find anywhere else.

And it still is.

And it's still even more so now.

That's amazing.

And you know, I always have this concept of it's not. I'm not a designer, but you know any. I did a big traveled with Swarovski around Asia. I've done some competitions with them years ago. And I would go and do some talks to students and I'd say, I'll tell you this quickly. I said to my bank manager and his pr, I said, I'm going to go and do this talk. Why don't you just come there and we'll have dinner? They said, oh, what a great idea. So we went to this. I can't remember maybe the college. I sat and I said and I did a show. All the screens of things we'd done because we got so much publicity. I said, watch all of this. You're at a college, but you've got to. From my point of view, the main thing is not sitting, learning how to draw a little necklace. The great thing is your idea. What's your idea? Get it in the middle of the night. It's like being a hairdresser. If you know how to do hair, you can do hair. If you know how to design clothes, you can design clothes. I don't think you can sit and learn by drawing a little necklace to be a great jewelry designer. I mean, from my, My whole thing was, I've got an idea. Oh, we could do that and then find the great craftsmen that understand what you're talking about and create it for you. That's what was interesting. So then I said, oh, while we're here, I've got two friends here. Let's talk about money. Right? You're all young. So my two friends are like, he's the PR for NatWest. My two. Any questions? You're thinking about where do you get money? Nobody wants to lend you money. I've got two people here, the perfect people to talk to. So. And they will look at me in horror. And all the kids get a chance to, well, what if I did this well? And they're going, well, this is what you do, you know, instead of sitting learning for five years to do something that you don't have in your head.

Right.

You're never going to be great. No. As far as I'm concerned.

Yeah. And as you say, it's got, you've got to have an original idea, you've got to have a new sp. Yes.

The excitement of, oh, this is amazing.

And yours was to put jewelry into fashion, to make fashion pieces that would go with different styles and looks.

My idea is that if something is beautiful, it's always beautiful. You know, being an antique dealer is like going to college. So you, you have to make your mind up that quickly you get that hit that makes you think that's it. And you have to get it before somebody else gets it. And that teaches you. I don't. If I've got to look at a jacket and think, do I like it? It's got to be, oh, I love that.

Fall in love, fall in love.

Know that it's right right away.

And so studying antiques and dealing with them all the time gave you that eye and the quality, gave you the I for quality.

I. The quality. It's not, oh, I've sat and I've drawn this thing and I give the credit to. And I've always been lucky. The people who manufacture it for me made the same as real jewelry. And they'll say, no, no, take that off, do this, take that off, whatever. And then you see the end result and oh, wow. And that doesn't have to be something with a fabulous big stone in it. It can be a little pig in red boots or it can be a huge, big choker. It can be. You get a feeling, you sort of fall in love.

Actually, I found this quote in 1977.

Oh, wow.

When you opened a small. You had a little part selling on the floor at Henry Bendel and Henry Bendel's. And in the New York Times, they said, headlined, costume is liberated at last. And they said, they're butterflies, dragonflies, dancing girls, flower necklaces with petals of colored stones as arresting as emeralds.

Really. And Women's Weird Daily did a story that was New York that was. Worked for me. It was the 80s, you know, I stayed with people that owned Marlborough Galleries who were incredible. Had dinner with the top artists who. I knew nothing about art, but the apartment was amazing. Rosie was amazing. So she had to cook dinner and say, you're having my first night. You're having dinner. Seven most contemporary artists, Rosie and me. I said, what am I here for? And she said, but cool, I'm here. You staying with me. And we would. They had Francis Bacon, who I did love. And then I was sitting beside cats, and he said to me, oh, what do you do? I said, I'm a fashion jeweler. I don't know. I thought, what am I going to talk about? I said, oh, well, you do it. And he said, I'm an artist. I said, oh, really? What do you paint? He said, oh, there's one. He painted big women's faces. I said, oh, I didn't like that. And I didn't know who they were. You know, red grooms was there, you know, but they didn't care because they wanted the boss to get a show at the marble galleries, right? And then I got.

So they put up with you in your comments? I was.

I wasn't. I wasn't allowed to go anywhere out of dinner every week so that I would break the boredom for Rosie.

Okay.

And then. So I started Henry Bendel. They'd asked me to do something which was a whole education. Geraldine stutt started the 57th original, the original Bendels. And Pat Peterson came from the New York Times to be the press. And I got an office beside her. She was extraordinary. And all these flowers would arrive, and this mad woman came in, and we became instant friends. It was so exciting. And we did it. It was a lot of vintage things and pieces. And, you know, we had Farrah Fawcett Major come in, and I'm just at the back, and we were trapped. And the returns thing was here, and she, oh, I want that and I want this. And I was like. And it was when the hair was down and she was amazing. And then we turned around, there's a hundred people standing there looking at her.

Looking at her, Looking at the jewelry.

Not even looking at the jewelry. Just. I said, is it like this? She said, it's like this everywhere I go. I said, well, let's just close. Let's just go and have a cup of tea, you know. I said, how do you cope with that? So. But New York was extraordinary. I met Anna Winter there, who worked for a magazine called Voila of Vasi or something. She was amazing, and I learned a lot.

What did she teach you?

Well, she. Because I had a portfolio with all my things, and I had long hair, and they had those shoes. I can't remember what they're called.

Platforms.

They were like platforms, but you bell bottoms. So they covered. So I was six feet tall. And she said, you've got to come and see where I work. And it was Esquire was on one side, and she was the other side. So I went up, and as I'm going up the stairs, there's a whole row of chiseled faces with cropped haircut. And I'm going up the stairs, pushing the hair back down my back. And they're all looking at me thinking, who's that? I said, I'm here to see Annie Winter. You can go straight through. They were all like, what is this? It's a new look. It's a new fashion. I was like, they're all crazy. And I thought, this is amazing.

So you were, like, looking a little hippie.

I got into even. We went to Studio 54. I opened the big yellow cab door. It's a thousand people. There's four of us. The guy in the door went, pointed.

To me and said, does he look different?

He thought I was a famous English rock star.

Which one?

I don't know. I never asked him, ever. They all became my best friends. So I went walking in, I was like. And everybody's looking at me. And I just. And then I spoke English, you know, English accent. Oh, you look amazing. Come in, guys. Then we became great friends.

So doors opened up all over New York.

Doors opened up. It was amazing. You don't wake up dreaming of McDonald's fries. You wake up dreaming of McDonald's hash browns. McDonald's breakfast comes first.

So you're meeting all these people. Catherine Deneuve, Dunaway, Farah Fawcett. In those years, who do you think was the most beautiful woman you met?

I would say number one is Catherine Deneuve. Dunaway was extraordinary, really extraordinary models. I had just photographed a girl called Talisa Soto, who then became an actress, but very Petri. And they're doing a thing on the face. They're doing a big show or something. And he was with Nick Kamen. She would. Yeah, she was with Nick Kamen. And we went to Cafe de Paris and in walks his best friend with Naomi Campbell. She was 15. I was like, wow, she's incredible. But I can't ask her. I'm sitting with Talisa. It's beautiful. And I thought, I've got to photograph her. She was extraordinary. But a year later, she was on Concord going to America.

She was huge.

She was huge. The body was amazing, the hair was amazing.

So you missed your slot.

I missed my slot. And you know, the second most beautiful girl in the world was Nikki.

Nikki actor.

She came in to me, 17. I'll show you a photograph of that. And she said, I'm looking for. You've got a job. I fell in love instantly. And we traveled all over the world together and really beautiful. And then I was just thinking last night when we did our 40th anniversary and all these girls came to model and this was all for charity. And Leonie, I don't know her other name, model there. And she's about the third girl that wasn't famous, I thought. And I pulled her out the line. I said, you've got to be. You're going to wear this illusion of vintage Chanel dress. Beautiful, innocent. When I got that feeling, beautiful. And now she's doing Glow up, that makeup show. But they do it to death, right? She's got on because she was small, she's got eight inch heels. They make her up to death. She's a stunning looking. But those are the three most beautiful women I've met.

That's interesting. And then of course, we're talking about beautiful women and women hounded by the press. We have to talk about Princess Diana, who used to come in here a lot, didn't she?

And she was so cool. And that's why this position, because this is a destination store. And she would come in and you know, we wouldn't know. Car would pull up, bodyguard would come in, she would come in, he would stand in the corner. I would say, I really didn't think, I'd say, oh, good morning. And she was young and I thought, I'm not going to do anything, I'm not going to try and serve her. And she had the best time. And he might even have to come upstairs just about the way.

So she'd try things on.

She would be standing when all the earrings at the back and she'd be standing beside all these little ladies and she would say. And I would never approach her and just make sure the girls helped her. And they would say. She would say, what do you think of these? And they'd be like, oh. And then they would look and realize who it was. And they would be like, just go into shock every time. She never once. And some of the other ones would call and say, would you send a selection? I went, no. Diana always came in, bought her own pieces, never hassled. And it was stunning. And she was stunning.

She was stunning.

She was stunning.

She did have that sort of. You know, there are very few people that have that sort of factor that change a room when they walk in. Yeah, and she did have that, didn't she?

When I say beauty, I don't mean you have to be gorgeous one. She was gorgeous. The beauty can come in a lot of your personality or your whatever.

And she loved. She loved the Fulham Road.

She loved it.

She used to go to what we all called the ABC Fulham Road and she used to sort of sneak in there with her friends because she wanted to be normal.

She wanted to be a young girl putting on. She would buy the snake and put it on to that Michael Jackson show. Nobody was bowing and scraping and saying, oh, your majesty, or whatever. It was normal. You're here, Bye. The guard will pay. That was it. You're out, no hassle. And that's a big relief.

Yeah. So she knew she was safe in here.

She was really safe. And if anything, one point we turned around and there was like 50 little Japanese people outside with the cameras. I said, listen, why don't we go upstairs and have a cup of tea? Yeah, it was just beautiful, you know, and she was. She was beautiful and everything, the way. The way she. The way she treated everybody, you know.

And so what was her style that she wanted to buy from you just kind of. Were they funny pieces? Whimsical.

They were what any young girl would buy, you know, buying the snake, buying the snake necklace, buying beautiful earrings. Buy. There was a gold pair that. A girl pair that should raise a clip or. But it was her own choice. And it wasn't like being sent and choose and send back or keep it or.

And also having the experience of shopping, of shopping coming in and being a.

Normal person and waiting to get packed up. No discount, no nothing. Lovely to see you. And I wouldn't be able to stay out the way. Because I understood that, you know, you go to New York and then the paparazzi thing has got out of hand. And I thought, just leave them alone. They want to buy, they'll buy. A couple of months ago, I was coming down from the office with all these bags. It was freezing. I put the bags down. I looked around and there's Tom Ford. Jane's putting a jacket on Tom Ford. And I put the bags down and I looked over, I said, you're Tom Ford? And he said, yes. I said, you're Tom Ford.

[Carol Woolton]

He is very cool.

[Simon Wilson]

And I was like a child, and I've never done that. I put the stuff down and he said, my car passes because he lived up the road from me. And he said, I just see these jackets in the window. He said, I need to try them. He tried every jacket on. And I came upstairs with him. I said, what are you looking for? He said, it's got to be tight here, but loose here or tight there. So I said, you carry on. And had a big headdress that I'd done for a show with all beautiful turquoise and fabulous things. He said, ah, that took. That's amazing. And Jane said, it's not for sale. I said, it's for sale for Tom Ford. It's Tom Ford. Ford. Right. You know, it was just. And I gave it a great price. But he's. He's exactly. He knows how he looks.

So, going back to the antique part, I wanted to ask you, you obviously loved Art deco, but were there. What other periods influenced you? Did Scottish jewellery influence?

I did. Well, the Scottish jewellery was funny, being Scottish. It was jewelry that my Auntie Flora, my Bessie, my Aunt Kathy, they all wore all the Celtic brooches. But when you looked at how beautifully this was made, I don't know if you ever knew Anne Boyd. She was with the Observer.

Yes, I did.

Yes. So I said to her, or do.

Yeah.

So I said to her, I said, you know, this Scottish jewelry, it's incredible, but it's not. Nobody understands it. I went to even see if I could get it made up in Scotland, but it was. It wasn't the same. So I started. For two and a half years, I collected Scottish jewelry at the antique markets and would say, why are you buying this? I said, I've got these crazy Americans. Because when I started buying something, all the prices would go up. I said, these crazy Americans that wanted it. I collected it for two and a half years, tables full of it. And then I said to her, okay, what can we do? And she said, I'm doing, I'm working with Ralph Lauren. Said, let's put it on Ralph Lauren cashmere Ralph Lauren evening jacket. So we did those for the billboards.

Perfect.

And it changed the prices all went mad. And it's beautiful. It's beautiful. I did the same with Jet jewelry and called it Jet Girls.

Sort of Victorian.

Yeah. But put it on this incredible model, Toko. It was funny. I did that with John Swannell. He's lovely. But as we went to do the session, you guys know John Swannell, the.

Photographer for people listening.

And it can be difficult. Barbara Daly doing the makeup. Sisters cutting their hair took her six feet tall.

Dream tease. Dream tease.

Unbelievable. And John arrives and I went and sat beside him and I said, I had Yves Saint Laurel skirt with the big lace and the little top. And I said, oh, what do you want to do? Well, I don't know. And I said, oh, but you're the photographer. It's for the billboards. Have you get any ideas? He said, no. He was so offhand with me. And I was like, blimey. I said, okay, can we, can we get Toko out? And she just came up, she grabbed the sides of this dresses, lifted them up like this, covered in the jewels. And he went, wow. And off he went. We became best friends.

Yeah.

You know, he just saw the image and he thought, this is incredible. So it was just creating. And you know, Carol's like I was saying then you could create those things. And it wasn't like a big. Again, didn't cost me any money, you know. And Bobby Daly was fabulous. You know, he was still going.

Barbara Daly was the, the precursor of Charlotte Tilbury.

Yeah, absolutely. She was fat. So it was lovely having that sort of team.

And who are the. The glamour wearing costume women now? Is it Rihanna? Is it Rita Ora? Is it? Who do you think does it?

Well, the difference is we've had Rihanna in Vogue.

Wearing your pieces. Yeah, but it's.

You're dealing with stylists.

Right.

And all I want is for you to. I never ever got in touch with a journalist, with a fashion journalist. I never called them up and said, oh, we've just sent this in. You're gonna love it. Because it wasn't my job. It was their job to come and see what I was doing. And they would come in themselves and choose the jewelry. Take it away, return wasn't. Oh, just keep it or whatever. Natasha can. She'll tell you what I was like. She was always great.

Natasha, the producer who worked for Hillary Alexander at the Daily Television.

Gorgeous Hillary. Oh, that's a whole other story. Hilary was my favorite. She was just amazing. But you know, that's, that was their job. And so I never say, oh, you've got to wait to see what I've got. Stylist. You end up getting a stylist, stylist. And they call up. Some of them are nice that we work with. A lot of them are so rude. We're doing this shit tomorrow. We want. No, you know, if you want, come talk to us, see what is. See if it's something I want to do. That's what I do with Molly now. And I don't care. You know, I'm at the stage. I've done my work, I've done my duty. I've did the 20 years in Harrods, I've done South Moulton Street. Now this is just for me, so I'm not interested. I had, talking about real and fashion jewelry. I had great friends who had a house in Alexander Square just down the road. Very rich friends, rich with a lot of famous movie stars. And he said, Simon, your stuff's amazing. And his daughters were great. He said, but you're too cheap. And I said, I know what you mean. I said, but I'm doing what I want to do. I own Film Road, I can keep my prices good and I do qvc, right? So I'm not interested if they think, oh, because it's a thousand pounds more, it's okay to wear it or it's a designer. I said, they're not my customer.

Plus part of the thing is the originality. So pieces come and go. So there's always something new to see. So people are always coming back. Yeah, you didn't want to price it out and then they don't come back.

For years and there's something new. All that. Just before you came this morning, that American woman, she bought fabulous 500 pound coat, one of a kind. She bought a big stingray bracelet. That's beautiful. That's what I want. I don't, I don't want to be. I've been everywhere. I don't want to open any shops. It's impossible to open a shop. And you want, you think, how lucky am I to be able to still do what I want and enjoy and still have the ideas.

And also I think an important part is that people come in because they want to buy something new for a big night out or a particular thing they're wearing. And there's always something new to do that with not too expensive. Like, today is Valentine's Day. Happy Valentine's Day. And the minute I came in, I just saw these big red lips and hearts. And so there's always something that is relevant that people want to wear. That's changing.

And you can come in and buy something for your granddaughter, for your every generation. And I love. I get the. I get so much excitement out of doing the. Oh, you know, the little rabbits or the little bugs and the cute things. I love doing those. I get so excited. They're big sellers for me because they're what you'd buy your mother. But, you know, if. If one of the designers come up and put a teddy bear on something, they'll say, oh, wow, this is fashion. This is. That doesn't bother me. You know, I do it because I love it. So there's something you will do, a gold. A silver gold chain or something. It's hard to even see it in here because there's so much stuff. But you can buy it. Yeah.

What do you think wearing a lovely piece of costume does for a girl?

I think it gives you. I always say to someone, if you're buying someone a present, buy that beautiful brooch, say that beautiful dragonfly. They put that on something and everybody will go, oh. They'll say, oh, no, she just wears silver hoops. So then she'll have 10 silver hoops. She'll wear it one night, and people go, wow, that's amazing. Then they think, well, everybody, I had an American customer come in and she said, americans are amazing buyers. She said, I've just bought a $12,000 Comme des Garcon dress for my daughter's wedding in New York. She then bought the 58 pound Big Spider that you wore over your shoulder. And I said, fabulous. You're going to look great. She came in about six months later and she said, I am never speaking to you again. I said, well, what's the matter? Not one person mentioned the $12,000 dress. All they were saying was, wow, where did you get that spider? I said, well, at least they noticed it all. So, you know, that's. I'll go with what I love, and if other people love it, then great.

But it gives people confidence.

[Carol Woolton]

You think going out there, getting.

[Simon Wilson]

But having. You need a little confidence or you're gonna notice when you wear it. People comment on it. Don't be scared to do it. But you. You're either gonna love it or you're not gonna like it. And if you try and it works, then that's perfect. But I'm always honest. If something comes in and I'm in the shop and there's somebody just going to the bath dress on Sunday. And she was, oh, I should wear that. I said, no, that's not right. I said, listen, just wear black. And I saw that I have this beautiful green snake bracelet, beautifully made, 128 quid or something. She said, what about earrings? I said, no, don't wear any earrings. Just wear that and just wear this fabulous colored snake on your wrist and that's it. And she said, you're right, this looks amazing. It looked amazing. And so she felt. And she went, no, you don't need a pairing. No, you don't need a necklace. You know, she thought, the more I put on. I said, the less you put on with that snake, the bigger effect it's got.

Yes. And what have you noticed in the difference in 50 years of how women wear jewelry?

I think it's. Well, I think it's very sad. Before, there used to be hundreds of jewelry shops in London. I think I'm one of the only ones left that does what I do. You know, you can do the real. You can. I can't think of any other fashion. Even in the high street, they used to do big, you know, cheaper ranges. I don't think there's anything.

I suppose they're buying it online, but.

This whole buying online is easier to buy online, obviously. I don't think it's easier to buy clothes online. I did it once, Spanish brand. I sent it back. Took a month for me to get the money back. Clothes, you've got to try them on. With jewelry, I think people tend to think, well, everything's changed. I used to do serious evening wear up here. I stopped doing it because nobody was going to the balls. Nobody was going to dress up. You know, it almost got to the point of, oh, now people are going to think it's too much. And I say, no, this is when you've got to make them thinking, oh, I haven't made an effort. She looks fabulous, you know, so the dressing down bit.

Enough, enough. You heard it here, everybody. Don't dress down. So the fashion comes and goes. People dress down, but what they must do is wear jewellery.

You must wear it if it's. If you're comfortable. And it's got to be. I think you find. You find this sort of jewelry. People pass here on the bus, they think, we're a fortune. We're not a fortune. You can buy 28 pound, great pair of earrings for £28. You can buy a semi precious pair of earrings for £500, you know, but they get the feeling, oh, that looks so expensive, that shop. But this shops, every cab driver, an Uber driver in London know this shop.

They do. Because actually, funnily enough, I ordered a black cab before I came and I went on, you know, you put in the address, but certain places in London are marked and I thought, I'm just going to see. And I put Butler and Wilson up it came.

Yeah, and I love it. I get there, I get more compliments from all of them. Oh, I love your shop. Passing that window. It's always new, you've always got new things. I said, well, maybe stop your cab one day and go and buy stuff because I spent a fortune with you. But it's a great compliment, I love it.

Well, long may the iconic store be here. Simon, for everybody and thank you very much for keeping on doing what you're doing and adding glitz and glitter to your lives.

Cal, I think one of the main thing is don't be greedy. I look at my life, I don't want a Lamborghini, I've got a beautiful house, I've got this great shop, I can still function and still do what I want. I don't, you know, so many people sell their businesses and they're saying, well, I don't know what to do. This has given me a lifestyle that I've loved and will carry on until I drop down.

Well, we've got plenty more years. Simon, thank you very much.

That's been really enjoyable. I didn't know what to expect. Well, made it very easy.

You have a lot of lovely stories and thank you for remembering them.

Very good, Lovely. Thanks very much.

[Carol Woolton]

Thank you for listening. For this and other episodes of if Jules Could Talk, please go to our website, carolwatton.com do share it anywhere you can and we love to have a rating and a comment. And don't forget the book of the podcast if Jules Could Talk is out now in all good bookstores and from Amazon. And join me again in two weeks for the next jewelled nugget, when I have an actual legend of the jewellery industry who's never spoken publicly before. And I'm really thrilled that she's chosen to break her silence on if Jules Could Talk. So you must tune in, you don't want to miss it. So I'll see you in two weeks and thank you for listening. Bye bye. If Jules Could Talk with Carole Woolton is produced by Natasha Cowan, music and editing by Tim Thornton. Graphics by Scott Bentley. Illustration by Jordi Labander.

[Sascha Oyerbakh]

Unexplored catacombs buried beneath a city. A crumbling castle perched on a mountain peak. A top secret government bunker. A cursed mansion cloaked in legend. I'm Sascha Oyerbakh. Join me and Tom Ward every Wednesday and Sunday as we reveal the mysteries and histories of of abandoned places around the world and ask, where did everyone go? Brought to you by Like a shot Makers of Forbidden History. Search for where did everyone Go? On your favorite podcast platform.