TRUE CRIME AT THE LOUVRE: ROYAL JEWELS AND SECURITY

Summary

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If Jewels Could Talk with Carol Woolton

Episode: True Crime at the Louvre: Royal Jewels and Security

Release Date: October 21, 2025
Host: Carol Woolton
Guest: Vincent Melin (French historian, jewellery expert, author)

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Episode Overview

This urgent episode delves into the extraordinary weekend heist at the Louvre, where eight precious jewels linked to the French crown were stolen from the Galerie d’Apollon. Host Carol Woolton is joined by French historian Vincent Melin to discuss the ramifications: the significance of the stolen pieces, the glaring lapses in museum security, and the profound loss—not merely in monetary, but cultural and historical terms. The conversation highlights the enduring fascination with jewel heists, the vulnerability of public collections, and the lingering question: can any of these treasures be recovered?

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Details of the Louvre Jewel Heist

• Extent of the Theft ([01:58])

  • Eight pieces stolen, focusing on jewels with large colored stones (emeralds, sapphires, pearls).
  • Notably, huge historical diamonds like the Regent, Sancy, and Hortensia were not stolen:
    • "Fortunately, the big diamonds, the big historical diamonds, the Regent, the Sency, the Hortensia, were not stolen." — Vincent Melin [02:03]

• Nature of the Heist ([02:52])

  • Despite public theories of an international mastermind, Vincent believes it was “a basic burglary by simple thieves who knew what they wanted to steal.”
  • The method echoes previous major heists, such as Dresden and Portugal.

2. Security Failures at the Louvre

• Easy Access and Past Precedents ([05:15], [07:34])

  • The criminals used a ladder to access a gallery window overlooking the street, similar to break-ins in 1792 and 1976.
  • “Stealing at the Louvre Museum is definitely piece of cake for burglars... they climbed the ladder... they opened the window. Same thing.” — Vincent Melin [05:37]
  • Shockingly, the heist lasted seven minutes with no effective camera surveillance or alarm response:
    • "Can you imagine seven minutes? Because everybody says, okay, it lasted only seven minutes." — Vincent Melin [07:31]

• Institutional Response ([06:23], [06:33])

  • The French Minister of Culture offered platitudes rather than accountability.
  • Both speakers criticize the decision to house vulnerable, priceless artefacts in public-facing, insecure galleries.

3. Selection and Motivation of the Thieves

• What Got Left Behind & Why ([08:02], [09:30])

  • Thieves ignored historical pieces with small stones and items with high historical but lower resale value (e.g., Empress Eugenie’s crown).
  • Jewel settings and craftsmanship—the “real” uniqueness—are at risk because stones will likely be recut and sold anonymously.

• Was an Insider/Collector Involved? ([10:27], [10:45])

  • Vincent rates this as a low probability: “I think that's something like 10% of the possibilities. Because one thing we always forget...jewellery was not that popular [until recently]...just simple burglars doing a nice burglary.” — Vincent Melin [10:50]

4. Aftermath: Where Are the Jewels Now?

• Escape and Disposal of Stolen Jewels ([13:24])

  • Thieves headed south, perhaps toward Marseille for a quick exit by sea or air.
  • Immediate disassembly and recutting of gems likely, making identification almost impossible.

• Ease of Selling Pearls and Stones ([14:54])

  • “They are drilled already, so you just have...five or six pearl necklaces...€50,000 to €100,000 worth, easily.” — Vincent Melin [15:07]

5. Broader Loss: History and Craftsmanship ([15:15], [15:34])

• The theft robs the public not just of gem value but of centuries-old artistry and heritage:

  • “The loss isn't so much the stones, it’s the loss of that craftsmanship...that they’ll dig out and discard.” — Carol Woolton [15:22]

• Hard-Won Collections ([16:13])

  • Many jewels painstakingly reacquired at auction in recent decades with museum fundraising and public donations—now lost again.
  • “All that money, I mean, we're talking about tens of millions...The Mazarin diamonds survived the First Republic, the Third Republic, and they were lost during the Fifth Republic. What else can you say?” — Vincent Melin [17:56]

6. Future Prospects: Recovery and Risk

• Can They Reappear? ([19:17])

  • While it happens rarely, important diamonds have resurfaced, sometimes unaltered, as in the case of historic pieces like the Maharaja of Patiala's necklace.
  • Realistically, though, recutting will make identification almost impossible.

• Deeper Cultural Loss ([22:02], [22:08])

  • Most French people and visitors aren’t aware of these jewels’ significance. Their disappearance further severs cultural connections.

7. Enduring Fascination with Jewels and Heists ([22:25], [22:47])

• Jewel robbery stories resonate globally—stones act as “crystal balls” reflecting history, love, revolution, and human drama:
  • “Jewelry is a crystal ball...you can see love, you can see revolution, you can see violence, you can see burglars, you can see wars.” — Vincent Melin [23:08]

8. Call for Reform and Accountability ([24:30], [25:53])

• Need for Serious Security ([25:53])

  • French authorities urged to emulate the Tower of London’s strict security: custodial rotation, secure rooms without street-facing windows, movement-only visitor policies.

• Questioning Social Media’s Role ([27:42])

  • Should public posting of museum layouts or showcases be restricted for security reasons?
  • “Sometimes we are, you know, we are very lucky people, you and me, because sometimes we see things in a way people don't...many times I've seen exhibitions...we were told not to publish anything on Instagram the day...because the day after the jewels were gone and the exhibition was closed.” — Vincent Melin [28:03]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On why the big diamonds weren’t targeted:
  “If you recut the Regent, it's a huge risk because it was in a third showcase which they didn't smash...you would lose the more money because the historical value is so high.” — Vincent Melin [08:27]

• On the speed and audacity of the theft:
  “They actually climbed the ladder outside the Louvre in full view of everyone, and seven minutes later they climbed down and nobody saw anything...inside the Louvre museum, no sound was issued.” — Vincent Melin [07:40]

• On the practical value of stolen gold:
  “Gold is very expensive, but one kilo of gold is £60,000...there was something like 100 grams of gold on that crown, or maybe 200. So it was worth something like £10,000 in gold...” — Vincent Melin [09:47]

• On the cultural tragedy:
  “We should all be angry at this. All the members, I mean, nothing was left there. I mean, there was nothing in that gallery in terms of jewellery. And everything has been bought patiently...with your and my money.” — Vincent Melin [17:45]

• On the symbolism of jewels:
  “Jewelry is a crystal ball. And you can check all the human passions...love, revolution, violence, burglars, wars.” — Vincent Melin [23:08]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Heist overview and stolen items: [01:58] – [04:22]
• Security lapse history: [05:15] – [07:57]
• Selection of items, motives: [08:02] – [10:45]
• Escape logistics: [13:24] – [14:26]
• Loss beyond stones (craftsmanship, donor anger): [15:15] – [18:33]
• Prospects for recovery and provenance: [19:17] – [20:56]
• Cultural amnesia and theft’s broader impact: [22:02] – [22:25]
• Jewel heists and enduring public fascination: [22:25] – [23:59]
• Security reforms and social media risks: [24:30] – [29:31]
• Final critiques and call for accountability: [29:31] – [30:32]
• Wrap up and next episode teaser: [30:32] – [31:02]

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Tone & Dynamic

• Carol Woolton expresses shock, indignation, and passionate advocacy for public heritage.
• Vincent Melin is forthright, sometimes sardonic, blending historical context with blunt criticism of institutional lapses.

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Key Takeaways

• The Louvre jewel heist is not only a material loss but a vivid example of cultural negligence and the vulnerability of public treasures.
• There’s skepticism that stolen stones will ever resurface as recognizably royal artefacts.
• The episode is a stark call for tightened security and renewed awareness of the living cultural history embodied in crown jewels—which, as Vincent notes, are “crystal balls” for human passion.

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Transcript

[A]

Hello, this is Carole Walton, the voice of jewellery. For my latest episode, I talk about the Tudor heart. This is a jewel that can be traced back to Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon and it was lost to the world for 500 years and will be on display for the first time this week at the British Museum. We talk about the background history, how it was lost, what it was made for, who wore it. So join me there, but I hope whichever episode you have queued up to listen to, you really enjoy and thank you for listening. This episode is brought to you by Leibish, the coloured diamond jewellery experts. Did you know that pink diamonds are amongst the rarest diamonds and over 90% came from the Argyle mine in Australia, which closed in 2020. Welcome to this special episode of if Jules Could Talk. As the world wakes up to the terrible loss of priceless jewels associated with the French crown, which are symbols of French history, stolen from the Louvre at the weekend from a room whose ornate decoration was commissioned by the Sun King himself, Louis xiv, and contained a set of historic crowns, diadems and jewels. We want to understand the ramifications and the full extent of this loss. So I am delighted today to welcome the French historian and author Vincent Melin, who writes about history and hauteuilerie and is a specialist in precious stones and the author of several books. Vincent, thank you for joining us.

[B]

Thanks to you. I'm super happy to be here.

[A]

I know, but we're not happy for the reason to be here, are we?

[B]

No, we're definitely not. I mean, I'm even a bit cross angry.

[A]

I bet you are. And I want to hear about this. Can you sum up the extent of the loss of this terrible jewel heist at the weekend?

[B]

Yes, because now we know which jewels were stolen. Basically eight pieces of jewelry were stolen. Fortunately, the big diamonds, the big historical diamonds, the Regent, the Sency, the Hortensia, were not stolen. But there's a reason for that. I guess it's because they were very difficult to sell and, and the pieces which were sold were mainly jewels with colored stone, big colored stone. They left behind the small colored stone. For example, the bracelets and two brooches with rubies, which are set with small stones, were not stolen. The pieces which were stolen were the pieces with big pearls, big emeralds, big sapphires. So there's a reason behind all this.

[A]

Of course they cherry picked exactly what they wanted, what they thought they could get rid of, what they could dig out of these historic settings.

[B]

Absolutely. And I think, you know, in France people are always saying oh, my God. It's something international. I mean, there must be some kind of collector behind it. It was organized. No, it's a basic burglary by simple thieves who knew what they wanted to steal. And they knew that, of course, they would lose part of the value of the jewels by recutting the stones. But obviously the idea was like it was in Dresden 10 years ago or in Portugal a few years ago, to take all stones and to cut them to get the extent of the catastrophe, because it's indeed a catastrophe for French patrimony and history. One of the pieces stolen was the diamond brooch created by Bapst for empress Eugenie in 1852. Okay, it was Bapst, it was Empress of Eugenie. But the two main stones on that brooch, which is absolutely huge, were two diamonds, Indian gold, condes, left to King Louis XIV, the Sun King by Cardinal de Mazarin in 1861. So they've been around in France for more than 350 years. They survived the Great Revolution. They survived the catastrophic auction in 1887, because the French sold everything at auction in the Louvre. Actually, there was one of the three pieces kept by the French authority because they thought it was some kind of religious ornament, which it was not. But anyway.

[A]

So they call it the reliquary.

[B]

Absolutely, but it has no meaning at all. But basically, the diamonds were absolutely amazing. And they were once again, Louis xiv, Cardinal de Mazarin, Indian diamonds. And these two diamonds, which have a heart shape, are very easy to recut. You just have to think about the Hope diamond. The Hope diamond, the big blue diamond, also had a kind of heart shape. They cut the three points and it made a round diamond. So those two diamonds which have a heart shape, you just have to cut the three points, and you have a round diamond of 14 carats.

[A]

But my point, Vincent, is given that they can't sell it with the historical provenance, what they'll sell them for eventually is a pennies, pennies for what they should have got. And why not go and steal some modern gems?

[B]

You mean where in Place Vendome or. Yeah, because on Place Vendome, the security is much higher than it is at the Louvre Museum. I mean, stealing at the Louvre Museum is definitely piece of cake for burglars. I mean, everybody forgets that in 1792, during the first revolution, there was already a burglary of the French crown diamond in the Hotel de la Marine, which still exists in Place de la Concorde. And there was a simple ladder put on a Balcony and they climbed the ladder to get inside and they stole everything. What did they do? This side, there was a balcony overlooking the river banks with cars everywhere. So it's public space. They put a ladder, they climbed the ladder and they opened the window. Same thing. And in 1976, another burglary happened in the Galerie d' Apollon in the Musee du Louvre. They stole the diamond sword of King Charles X. Just took the opposite. Imagine the crown jewels of England exhibited on the first floor of Buckingham palace, overlooking the street, that huge gallery with an access on the road.

[A]

So who do you blame for this breach of security? For the lack of security?

[B]

I mean, you know, the French Minister of Culture issued a press release yesterday in which she was thanking all the people from the Loos Museum for doing their job so well. I mean, a joke.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You don't have to tell they are wrong, but you don't have to say anything. I mean, I think those jewels should never have been exhibited in that place. Never. And it's not the worst that could have happened because in the same gallery, I mean, you have all the glassware of Louis XIV in crystal rock ware, set with diamonds and gold, all Renaissance pieces of. I mean, they could have smashed the windows and all those things would have been broken. I mean, that place is where the most expensive pieces of French national treasures are exhibited. And they've been there for centuries. The three windows showcased with the diamonds were something. But all around them there are other windows with pieces of silverware and as I said, rock crystal, Hubers, amazing pieces. And apparently the cameras were not working. It lasted seven minutes. Can you imagine seven minutes? Because everybody says, okay, it lasted only seven minutes.

[A]

My God, that's a long time.

[B]

That's a very long time. And think that they actually climbed the ladder outside the Louvre in full view of everyone, and seven minutes later they climbed down and nobody saw anything on the camera security system. Nobody intervened. I mean, inside the Louvre museum, no sound was issued.

[A]

Did they cut the alarms?

[B]

That's the question. Were there any alarm working?

[A]

I mean, it really is shocking. But actually, given that you think that they would take the Mazarin diamonds and recut them, there's no reason for them not to have taken the regency or the sancy. These are the stones that, you know, date back to 140 carat. The regent diamonds that Maurento Net wore, that Napoleon wore on the hill of his sword. They could have taken those and recut them.

[B]

Yes, but you know, these big diamonds were the one where you would lose the more Money by recutting them, because the value of the Regent is absolutely amazing. But if you recut it, you lose most of the value. The value of the smallest Mazarin diamond, 18 carats. I mean, the Mazarin diamonds are 18 carat. The regent is 140, as you said. So if you recut the Regent, it's a huge risk because it was in a third showcase which they didn't smash, so they smashed only two and they took what was there. But smashing a third one would have taken some time to get those stones. And those stones were definitely the one where you would lose the more money because the historical value is so high that on the other hand, apart from you and me and a few people in the world, who really knows Queen Marie Amelie of the French, she's the one who had that spectacular parure of sapphire and diamond. So the historical value there is not so big.

[A]

Do you think they dropped Empress Eugenie's crown on purpose? Yes, I think because they were small stones. There are a lot, you know, thousands of diamonds and emeralds, 1500 or so, but those are smaller and that's too hot to handle.

[B]

And it's a lot of gold, which is not worth. I mean, gold is very expensive, but one kilo of gold is £60,000. So I mean, there was something like 100 grams of gold on that crown, or maybe 200. So it was worth something like £10,000 in gold. And on that gold, a lot of small stones, as you say. So it was not very interesting to take that. I mean, they took it because it was in the window. I'm quite sure they gave a brief look at it and they said, okay, this is worth, we're not going to do anything of this. Let's throw it on the floor. I think it was not the most interesting piece, but it was inside one of the showcases that they smashed.

[A]

But how you're talking really makes me believe that there is somebody who knew about these stones, who knew what they were taking. It is possible that they are collectors who basically look to high level criminals to get these stones for them. I mean, that is possible.

[B]

That is possible, but I'm not. I think that's something like 10% of the possibilities. Because one thing we always forget, you and me and people working in that business like us. I mean, 40 years ago, nobody would talk about the crown jewels in the Louvre. I mean, jewelry was not that popular. I think it became popular during the last 40 or 50 years. And I think some simple burglars could have watched my post on Instagram, which I did five years ago when the gallery was reopened, and said, oh my God, we need to take some money quickly. I mean, look, that guy in the Louvre museum, he's showing amazing jewelry. We don't even know that we have this in France. And they just went to the Louvre and they just checked all the security and said, I think it's a classical case of simple burglars burn doing a nice burglary. I mean, you don't have to be that clever to organize something like that. Apparently there was. You just had to climb a ladder.

[A]

But you have to be brazen. It was literally daylight robbery. There were people around, they could have been caught at any second.

[B]

It was a Sunday. It was a Sunday, which in Paris is not very quiet. A night between Saturday and Sunday. And the only problem is that nobody noticed because, you know, actually a guy noticed outside. It was a tourist, a guy walking on the riverbank. He saw them and he gave testimony. I think he even filmed something so people outside could see them. I mean, no one from. I mean, think about it. You are security. You have a security camera. You saw some guy climbing a ladder on the Louvre facade, on the. Behind the galleries d', Apollon, you think, oh my God, something is happening. You just organized everything. You set the alarm. I mean, it should have taken something like one minute or two minutes at the most to get some cars under the ladder to prevent them to escape. Because, you know, the problem in a burglary is not to get inside. The problem is getting outside. Because to get inside, I mean, you can organize thing and you can be. But to do this two times in 10 minutes without no one noticing and no security and I mean, there should have been something like 20 cars waiting for them outside. There was no one. Of course, seven minutes later doesn't make sense. Doesn't make sense. They got lucky or somebody was not.

[A]

Doing his work, somebody was not doing their work. They couldn't have planned it. How quickly do you think they got the stones A out of Paris, but B, be probably out of the country?

[B]

I mean, apparently I've heard something that they were on the motorway, escaping on the motorway to the south of France. So obviously they were going in the direction of Marseille or something like that.

[A]

To get on a boat.

[B]

To get on a boat.

[A]

Or do you think they would have taken. Headed to Antwerp to recut them?

[B]

No, Antwerp would not take the. I mean, I'm sure there are some people in Antwerp doing bad business, but not that much, I think. Can you think about Anyone trying to. In the south of France, Marseille is not a very safe city. I mean, and it's very close to Italy. You can cross the border and you can take a book to anywhere in the world in Marseille or a plane at Nice, I don't know. I mean, it was very, very. It was the safest way to go.

[A]

South because they had options. They can take a plane, they can take a boat, they can get out.

[B]

They can leave and they can even recut.

[A]

And they can recut there because that's what they'll want to do. They'll be aiming to dig out and recut as soon as they can.

[B]

I would have done it in the. As soon as I got into the car, I would have left someone behind. Taking the stones out of the setting, because taking the stones out of the setting is not a recutting job. I mean, it's something quite easy to do. You can do it yourself with a pair of scissors. And so getting the big stones out of the setting was quite, quite easy. And, you know, think about the pearls on Empress Eugenie Tiara. I mean, those pearls are super easy.

[A]

To sell, beautiful natural pearls, but you.

[B]

Have to just have to make a few pearl necklaces with them. They are drilled already, so you just have. And they're in perfect shape. Biggest at the center and smallest on both sides. I mean, you could do something like five or six pearl necklaces with them, which would be between 50,000 and €100,000 worth, easily.

[A]

But don't you think, Vincent, for people like you and me who do what we do, I mean, the loss isn't so much the stones, it's the loss of that craftsmanship of when you said Frederick Bapst, Alexandre Lemonier, I mean, that sort of craftsmanship that they'll dig out and discard.

[B]

You know, the thing which is most shocking to me, I mean, I completely agree about the stone, the historical value, the craft matching. We love that job so much. But the thing which really makes me mad, really, I mean, it's something very human. I mean, we always forget that France sold almost everything in 1887. We sold all the crown jewels. In 1887. There was an auction at the Louvre Museum. Actually, not in that. In the Gares d' Apoumet in the Salle des Etats. And it's not at all like the crown jewels you have in England, because the crown jewels you have in England were always there since Cromwell. I agree.

[A]

Well, some of the stones of St. Edward Sapphire go back to Edward the Confessor a thousand years.

[B]

But the thing we have to. Except the reliquer brooch, which was not sold in 1887. The thing we have to know is that in 1950, after World War II, there was not one piece of jewelry in the Galerie d', Apoulon, not one, because everything had been sold. And during the last 40 years, I've been to the auctions. You have been to some of them. All these pieces which have been stolen have been bought by money provided by tourists buying the entrance to the Louvre. And also the extremely wonderful association des Amelie du Musee du Louvre, who has given millions through its members, who give every year, I don't know, for the smallest one, maybe €40, 40 pounds every year. And these people have been providing the money so that the Association Le Musee du Louvre could buy some jewelry. They bought the pan Tiara in 1992 at the Tonon Taxis auction. I was there, I saw it. They bought the sapphire and diamond parure in 1986 from the Comte de Paris. They bought the Marie louise emerald in 2002 through the association.

[A]

And the empress's crown was 10 million at auction, wasn't it?

[B]

But I mean, it was paid by the money of the common people, foreigners also, I mean, not only French.

[A]

So we should all be angry at this.

[B]

Absolutely, because all the members, I mean, nothing was left there. I mean, there was nothing in that gallery in terms of jewelry. And everything has been bought patiently. Every time there was a piece arriving at auction, an historical piece, a crown jewels piece, it would be bought. And the association des Musee du Louvre would issue a press release to its members saying, we need some money because we want to buy that piece. Could you please give us extra money? And the members did it, I did it, other people did it everywhere in the world. And all that money, I mean, we're talking about tens of millions. You know, the Mazarin diamonds survived the First Republic, the Third Republic, and they were lost during the Fifth Republic. What else can you say?

[A]

I mean, you expect to lose royal jewels with the Royal association during times of revolution, but not just on a normal Sunday.

[B]

I'm really thinking about all those people who have given money to buy those jewels. What do they think today? I mean, the Louvre.

[A]

Well, they won't be doing it again. That's the problem. It's going to really affect the Louvre forward in fundraising and support.

[B]

Why should you give money to those people? They can't keep the pieces that are bought with your and my money. Next steps would be, I mean, they would not steal the Mona Lisa because it's too famous, those jewels, they can be sold because of the stones and it's really a shame. But you never know.

[A]

I mean, they may resurface. I was asked this morning actually by the BBC and I said, well, you know what? Stranger things have happened that jewels have been stolen, they have been broken up, but important diamonds have resurfaced at auction as they were unrecut. We don't know what's happened to them in the meantime, but they do resurface. Do you think the Mazarin stones could resurface like that at some point? Think of the example I was thinking of was the Maharaja of Patiala's necklace that was stolen in 1948. The Big De Beer's 200 karat yellow stone did resurface at auction in the 80s unrecut.

[B]

Anything can happen in that kind of problem. You have to be honest about the chances. I mean, obviously the Mazarin diamonds are very, very valuable. And it's a very simple thing to recut them in order to disguise them. And there are no possibilities to identify them because no one can say this is. If you recut it, it's a wonderful Indian diamond gold coin, best quality of the 14, 15 or 16 carat. But nobody could. I mean, how many Indian diamonds are there of 14 and 15 carats? I mean, nobody could identify them and say, these are the Mazarins that were stolen at the Louvre Museum. Same thing for the pearls. It's more easy to sell those stones.

[A]

That people would think, and to resurface like that and to benefit from their history, there would have to be a tradition that they came from the French crown jewels at some point, wouldn't they?

[B]

Absolutely. But, you know, sometimes even provenance, traditional historical provenance can play against the price. Because you think, oh my God, it's going to be bought by a museum. That's exactly what happened to the Marion Tonight diamond bracelet. I mean, they sold for 6 million euros, something like that. I'm not 100, because I think quite a lot of people imagine, okay, this has to go to a French museum. This has to go. And so the person who bought them made a real bargain because it could have been more expensive.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I mean, history is something which is important to U.S. history. And you know, the problem, it's also a French national problem. I mean, in France, I'm not sure people at school know anything about Queen Marie Amelie, Empress Eugenie, or the only queen they would know is Marie Antoinette for cinema reasons, I mean, for Kirsten Dance. But I mean, I don't think history, the sense of history in France has gone, has been lost so much that I'm not sure if people care a lot about that. People who know heritage and patrimony, people who are going to the Louvre, people. But I mean, these are 10% of.

[A]

The population, so the majority are foreign visitors.

[B]

A lot of them are foreign visitors.

[A]

So you think the trouble is losing objects like this makes everybody lose that thread of cultural history more, especially if.

[B]

They'Re already losing it. I mean, it's going like a wheel. I mean, you are losing the knowledge at school and then you're losing the symbols.

[A]

But to change vans. And part of the reason we're doing this podcast is that people are fascinated by jewelry. In fact, and around the world, they are talking about this. And for some reason, in people's consciousness, jewel heists take on this sort of extra emotional relevance, and people talk about it far more than just normal burglaries.

[B]

I've always been amazed by the fascination of people for jewelry. And I've been recently, I was talking with someone from the Place Vendome, one of the CEO, and it's a woman, and she was saying, you know, I've always been obsessed by the fact that precious stones have something that we don't have. It's immortality. And so they are one of the best way to prevent death, symbolically speaking. And I mean, when you get inside history through those stones, you're linked to those people. You're linked to Marie Antoinette, you're linked to the Sun King. It's a very easy way. It's a crystal ball. Jewelry is a crystal ball. And you can check all the human passions and in that crystal ball, and you can see love, you can see revolution, you can see violence, you can see burglars, you can see wars. It's very interesting. You don't see this in a bed or in anything else.

[A]

No, you don't. And the thing is, these stones, whether we like it or not, we like them in the settings they were in. They will go on and have another life. They will go on and on in whatever incarnation they are now put into.

[B]

The funny thing is that you never know what's going to happen. Maybe within 50 years, when all of us will be dead, those stones will reappear and maybe they will be found again and exhibited again, because I hope in the same shape. But maybe not. But in any case, they won't die. They will be somewhere.

[A]

They'll be somewhere. And if anybody had any suspicions of anybody or was approached by stones, they should automatically go to the authorities, shouldn't they?

[B]

Absolutely. They should absolutely go to the police and think about something. I mean, it's really, you know, it's amazing the reaction to that burglary. I have to say that because I've been contacted by. I've seen reactions all over the world. I mean, it's a long time since I've had so many comments on my Instagram page. I mean, it was absolutely amazing. So it's. It's a bit like Notre Dame in a smaller. It's the Louvre. So it's stones, precious diamonds in the Louvre Museum, which is famous all around the world. I mean, it's absolutely spectacular the way. And it gives a good, in my opinion, indication of the way those jewels and treasures are not valued at their right value by the French authorities, because they should have been exhibited exactly like the crown jewels are exhibited in the Tower of London, in a safe with huge doors, no windows overlooking outside, no windows on the road like they are today. And it's happened in 1792, it's happened in 1976, it's happening in 2025, at least. This should close the Galerie d' Apollon and try to organize some place to. To exhibit those pieces in a safe way. Should be inside. No windows inside the Louvre.

[A]

And also limited people sometimes. I mean, the crown jewel says limited people.

[B]

And you have to walk, you can't.

[A]

Stop and you can't stop and you have to keep on moving. And also there should be, you know, we had the big millennium heist here or the attempted millennium heist with the blue diamonds of De Beers.

[B]

And.

[A]

And you know, the police were onto that. They replaced them with fake stones. You know, you have to have this intelligence going out there as well to prevent these things.

[B]

I remember last time I went there was, I think two or three years ago. It was at the opening of the museum, exactly at the same time where the burglary happened. Because I was there with an Italian friend whom actually you may know Lucia Silvestri from Bull Guy. And she was coming to Paris and she told me, is there something we should see? And I said, okay, come with me to the Louvre Museum. And we were there at the opening, and the guide very nicely let us in five minutes before. I mean, during 20 minutes, from 9 to 9:20, I mean, there was no one in that gallery. I mean, it's not a place where people usually go except people who like jewelry. Everybody was rushing the stairs to go to the Mona Lisa. But I mean, that place was not made for Jewelry, I mean, it's not even today.

[A]

Has the Louvre offered a reward?

[B]

I mean, the only thing the Louvre has done is to close the Louvre today.

[A]

Again, they should offer a reward.

[B]

I mean, why did they close the Louvre today? I mean, they have to close the Gares d', Aponant, of course, but I mean, they decided to open it this morning. So tourists were queuing in front of the Louvre. They said, okay, it's going to be a bit long. And then after two hours waiting, they said, okay, we are not opening the Louvre today. I mean, what's happening?

[A]

I mean, what's chaos? Chaos.

[B]

It doesn't make sense.

[A]

My final thought, Vincent, is when you talked about showing this on your Instagram, do you think everyone is partly at fault to film these things and show it on their Instagram? Do you think we should be banned in certain situations because of security in showing Windows, layouts, showcases?

[B]

Sometimes we are, you know, we are very lucky people, you and me, because sometimes we see things in a way people don't. I mean, and many times I've seen exhibitions, for example, with a jeweler, which I won't mention for security reasons, and without any showcases. And I remember we were told not to publish anything on Instagram the day, on the very day we had to publish the day after, because the day after the jewels were gone and the exhibition was closed. And so of course sometimes we are warned. The big problem is that when you have any private exhibition, presentation of collection, exhibition anywhere in the world, security is at maximum. And obviously security in public museum in France is not organized the way it is in private institutions. I mean, have you ever heard of a jewelry exhibition without a permanent guardianship in the room?

[A]

I mean, I did an exhibition at Masterpiece Fair, London, oh quite a while ago and I had six guards full time, three in the day and three at night. And that was a secure environment. And I still on my stand because I had 40 pieces of jewellery. I had to have those guards 24 hours.

[B]

There was no one near Galvez de Polon during the whole night.

[A]

Unbelievable. I think we should all require the Louvre to offer a reward, because really it's for everybody. We need to see these pieces. This is all of our history.

[B]

You know what the Louvre is going to do if we asking in offering a public reward? They will open a fund asking the public to, to send some money to make a reward. Because that's what they always do. I mean, they're always asking people to give some money to organize security, to organize exhibition, to buy some new pieces.

[A]

Well, they'll be pushed back this time. People are going to say, no, you are not the guardians. Absolutely, you are not responsible guardians.

[B]

So many people go to visit the Louvre. I mean, they keep saying, oh, we don't have enough money for the security. What do they mean? 15 million people every year, they don't have the money.

[A]

They are more visited than the city of Venice.

[B]

They have no sense of reality. I mean, the most visited museum in the world doesn't have enough money to organize security. They have to explain this to me. Doesn't make any sense.

[A]

To me, it doesn't make sense. Vincent, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and your expertise with us. You said what has to be said. And for everyone listening, Vincent's going to be back. We are continuing to shine a light on French crown jewels because we're going to be back very soon, talking about the jewelry and another terrible heist, the affair of the diamond necklace and Marie Antoinette. So please join us both then and thank you for listening. Thank you, Vincent.

[B]

Thanks to you.

[A]

If Jules Could Talk with Carole Woolton is produced by Natasha Cowan. Music and editing by Tim Thornton. Graphics by Scott Bentley. Illustration by Jordi Labander.