VALENTINE'S BONUS: LOVE JEWELS WITH CECE - If Jewels Could Talk with Carol Woolton

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[00:01]
A
This episode is brought to you by Leibish, the coloured diamond jewelry experts. Did you know that pink diamonds are amongst the rarest diamonds and over 90% came from the Argyle Mine in Australia, which closed in 2020?
[00:22]
B
I mean, I'm such a romantic and a sucker for those sayings we have, like Forever and Love Never Dies and Be Lucky and lots of sayings that feel like people can instantly resonate with. And actually, our new collection coming up is all about love. It's about fairy tale love. So the love that you read in stories that's absolutely epic and they run off into the sunset.
[00:46]
A
I'm Carole Houlton, the voice of jewellery. Welcome to if Jules Could Talk. I'm an author and broadcaster and the woman who initiated the role of jewellery editor at magazines like Tatler and Vogue. This is a podcast for everyone, for people who do like jewellery, for people who don't realise they like jewellery, and anyone intrigued by fascinating facts, new ideas and forgotten histories. So join me as I tell sparkly tales and meet all sorts of people delving into four centuries of jewelry culture and investigate what's happening now. This is our Valentine's Day special. It's a gift to all of you and to our sponsors, Leibish. We're all united in our love for jewellery and we want to thank you for your support. I also want to thank you for reacting to our podcast on the Tudor Heart. It was a special episode that. That we recorded before all the newspapers had the information about the history and research of the Tudor Heart jewel dating back to 1511 and Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon. And last October, the British Museum launched a campaign to raise? 3.5 million to secure the jewel for the nation and keep it within the British Museum collection. And I want to thank all of you because, A you told us how much you enjoyed that episode, but B, I know how many people actually did support the campaign from the if Jewels Collabor Talk community. And I want to share with you a wonderful email that we've received from Dr. Rachel King at the British Museum saying what an important part the podcast played in the campaign. She writes. And finally, there is the not so small matter of donations. 45,000 individual gifts were made and many were clearly the result of hearing us speak your generosity in featuring the jewel and galvanized and mobilized a community. So I want to thank all of you because together we made a real difference and a contribution for that wonderful jewel to be acquired for all of us to see and visit. And of course, it's a love jewel so it's a good jewel to talk about today. And if you haven't heard that episode, do go back to the library and hear it. It's the H and K for Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon, tied in a lover's knot. It's about Henry's love for Catherine. She was his queen and wife and regent, sometimes in times of his absence, for 24 years. That's way longer than any of his subsequent wives. Underneath their initials is a banner reading Toujour always, which is a poignant declaration of an eternal connection. So it's wonderful news that that jewel will be on permanent display at the British Museum. So if you haven't seen it, you should go and see it. And then I know it's going to go on tour on a sort of global tour, so I'll keep you posted as to where it will be and then if any of you are nearby and want to go and see it, you can. Now we're going to talk about other love jewels and I'm delighted to welcome my guest today, Cece Fine Hughes. I'm here on Valentine's Day to talk about love jewels. Now, there is a posy ring. Posy rings were given as love tokens from about the 15th century which were engraved with little messages. And there is one in the British Museum that's engraved with the words, this gift is small, but love is all. When you see this, remember me, mb. So we don't know who MB is, but I kind of think that this is the sentiment that all jewellery is given in. It's given as a love jewel for whether that's love, romantic love, friendship, parental, sibling, it's given for somebody to think about the receiver. And I'm here with British jeweler Cece Fine Hughes, who's known for her fine and detailed craftsmanship using hand painted enamel. But more than that, she uses symbolism and classical references to narrate stories of love through her jewellery. Cece, thank you very much for joining us this morning.
[05:14]
B
Thank you for having me. How very exciting.
[05:16]
A
And we have to reference the fact that cece has captured global headlines recently because she made signet rings for Jacob, Elodie and Margot Robbie to wear on their press tour for the new film made by Oscar winning director Emerald Fennell, who's been a previous guest on if Jules Could Talk. And she's made a film of Wuthering Heights based on Emily Bronte's Gothic novel. And Jacob and Margot portray the doomed couple, Heathcliff and Cathy. And the film opened last night. So congr, congratulations Cece, you've had so much publicity about this.
[05:53]
B
I know it's been pretty crazy, to be honest.
[05:56]
A
And I want to know. Obviously, we want to know more about these rings. Tell us what's on them for a start. How is this love story captured on the ring?
[06:04]
B
So they're a matching pair of signet ring. One is extra large for Jacob, and one is a little bit smaller for Margot. And they feature two skeletons embracing exactly like the movie poster, where their sort of chins are touching. And it's very romantic. And they're surrounded by red enamel roses and thorns and black writing, which is the very famous quote, whatever our souls are made of, his and mine are the same. Which is very. Oh, it's just whimsical, gothic, romantic. It just.
[06:40]
A
And eternal forever.
[06:41]
B
Exactly. With the skeletons in the center. It's like love lasts forever, basically.
[06:46]
A
And it's interesting that skeletons are in the same position as on the poster, because that is inspired by the famous film Gone with the Wind, and it was the great love story of Rhett Butler and Scarlett o'. Hara. So you've got another reference to a tumultuous love story.
[07:05]
B
Fantastic. I mean, designing the rings, it's just. That's my, like, kryptonite is getting into that sort of deep love and romance portrayed through history. It was so beautiful to bring them to life. And on the side, they're engraved with C and H, which is obviously Cathy and Heathcliff.
[07:22]
A
How did it happen? How. I mean, did Margot come to you? I mean, had they seen your work? How did it come about?
[07:31]
B
We worked really closely with Andrew, her stylist, who is getting so much recognition at the moment. He's fantastic. I mean, her looks for each premiere have been incredible.
[07:41]
A
So that's Andrew McCamall.
[07:43]
B
Yes, exactly. I worked closely with him to design the rings, really? And there was lots of back and forth, lots of tweaking, and the result is beautiful.
[07:54]
A
So had he seen your work before?
[07:56]
B
Yes. So actually, the rings were inspired by a very old collection of ours, and it's a ring called Love Never Dies. And it's actually got two skeletons, and it's one of our best sellers, and it's teeny, tiny, but he basically said, I love this ring. Can we build on this design? So, for me, it was wonderful and fantastic because I could really sort of use my. He obviously liked our style of rings, which is refreshing when you're working with someone who's also creative. So he kind of trusted me to do my thing, and I trusted him to do his and we kind of, like, came together with these gorgeous rings.
[08:33]
A
And was it a real gift from Margot to Jacob? Did she know about this? Or this was something dreamt up by the stylist.
[08:42]
B
So she did know about it. Yeah. Which was great. So it was like I was talking to Andrew, Andrew was talking to Margot. So there was kind of that conversation.
[08:50]
A
Going, but, yeah, triangular conversation.
[08:52]
B
Exactly.
[08:54]
A
And so it was sparked from her saying, I do want to give Jacob something.
[08:58]
B
I believe so, yes. Which is kind of magical. And that's the best way to. When you're working with, you know, celebrities, it feels much more personal when it's a gift from one to the other. I think there's much more sort of meaning behind it, which I love.
[09:15]
A
Well, everything on their press tour has resonated with something, hasn't it? Oh, my God. I know. There have been so many love jewels.
[09:23]
B
I know.
[09:25]
A
I mean, they've had the Taj Mahal diamond, Elizabeth Taylor's Taj Mahal diamond, that came from a great love story from Nur Jahan. It's inscribed with her name and love is everlasting. That was passed to her son. Her son was the one who built the Taj Mahal, landed up being owned by Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton. A tumultuous love story there. Love stories all over the place.
[09:48]
B
It's incredible. I mean, it's really fed into the buildup of the film. It's, like, fantastic.
[09:54]
A
But how did you fit so much on to a pinky ring? How did you fit all that engraving on?
[10:01]
B
An excellent question. I mean, I feel like that is literally my whole job, my whole life. I spend most of my time designing bespoke signet rings for our customers. And I will get sometimes emails, PDF documents of what they want to include, and I need to translate that onto a ring that's like, 7 millimeters. And it's like you kind of have to be a magician and create this story that's full of meaning on something so small, on a tiny, tiny little canvas of gold. I was actually really happy because the rings are quite large compared to our little dainty signet rings. But it's always a combination of layering for me, so it's the mixture of engraving and enamel work and stones where you can really pull together a story. And that's kind of what I did with these rings, with the diamond border, which brings that kind of glitzy romance. And then you have the enamel painting, which, I mean, our enamelers are like masters in miniature. So they can get so detailed. Their paintbrush is like the size of a cat's whisker. And they wear magnifying glasses. So that's kind of like our bread and butter.
[11:13]
A
Do you think people have moved on from sort of generic heart shaped stones and very, very obvious love tokens and wanting to make it totally personal about them and their story?
[11:28]
B
Definitely. I mean, that is why enamel, for me is my brand is just a dream to work with. Because people can come to us and we can tell their story in so much more detail than just a stone shape. And, you know, enamel's been used for centuries just for that exact reason to paint a story. Whether it's a flower that you're gifting that's forever immortalized in gold rather than a fresh flower. I just think there's so much that can be done with enamel.
[11:56]
A
Tell me why you focused on enamel?
[11:59]
B
I mean, I studied history of art, so I've always been kind of obsessed with sort of allegorical symbolism. You know, sort of in a painting, you'll have someone holding a lemon and that lemon will mean something. So that fascination, I guess I sort of found enamel and I realized I could sort of create beautiful paintings on gold rather than paper and tell beautiful stories in much more of a painterly way.
[12:29]
A
And were there any particular jewels that you saw when you were studying that you thought the enamel that really inspired you?
[12:37]
B
Yes. So I remember many years ago now, I saw this French renaissance enameled band in the va and it had little pink flowers and daisies alternating all the way around. And each one had a compartment that you opened that had a little message in. And it's just I'm still obsessed with that ring. And I remember seeing that for the first time going, I have not seen anything like that in this current day, that detailed. And that champlivet enamel, which is very painterly. So that was the ring that kind of inspired it all.
[13:10]
A
Tell me about the champlav enamel and why you chose to use that. Because there are a few different styles, aren't there, of guilloche that Faberge used to use and plique a jour like a stained glass window. But you, you've chosen champlain. Why is that? Describe it to the listeners as well.
[13:28]
B
The only way I can describe it is. Is painterly. So you can paint. I mean, I've got dogs and cats in my mind because I was just taking photos of some pup portrait signet rings that we do quite a lot. But you can paint a miniature version of your little cat with a pink ribbon around its neck, and it looks exactly like your cat. Whereas other forms of enamel are usually flat block colours. So you get a deep red or a deep blue. But Champlev is basically like a mini oil painting in glass and it's making.
[14:00]
A
A little trough in metal and filling it up with the enamel painting. So you have to engrave it on the surface first? Yes.
[14:09]
B
There are sort of like four steps to enamelling and that process. So it's engraved. Exactly. A trough which is then filled with white enamel. So it creates this canvas and then that's painted by hand on top with crushed different glass and colours and then covered in clear flux to create a flush, glassy finish. And constantly in and out of the kiln throughout the whole process.
[14:32]
A
So quite complex and very time consuming.
[14:35]
B
Oh, my God. Yeah, both of those things.
[14:37]
A
And you've got to have, as you say, these eagle eyes and steady hands. Yes.
[14:43]
B
I mean, I personally, I do not enamel myself. I wish I did, but I am in awe every single day of our enamel painters that can hold their hand that steady while painting with a whisker. It's just incredible.
[14:59]
A
Did you find it hard to find people with that skill?
[15:02]
B
And I think this is when I kind of believe in, like, luck. I stumbled across the best enamel, I'd say, in the world, because there are very few. By chance, on the first time I tried to find someone because I. After seeing the ring and the vna, I was like, I need to create my own. I have to. And I designed this little snake wrapping around a diamond moon, which is still on the website and sells very well. I was googling enamel and I stumbled across his website and I reached out to him and it's one of those moments in life where if I had found someone else and the enamel came back and it was a bit crappy, I would have gone next thing onto the other thing. But it was meant to be.
[15:44]
A
And now. How many do you work with still?
[15:46]
B
He's our main man. There's very few people in the world. We're training other people, so we can.
[15:52]
A
That's great.
[15:52]
B
Yeah.
[15:53]
A
I mean, awesome.
[15:54]
B
Enamel is a dying art. It's on the list of dying arts. So there's so many. So few people in the world that can do this skill.
[16:01]
A
So that's great that you're teaching other people.
[16:04]
B
Yes, exactly. Including my auntie. Yeah.
[16:10]
A
How's her steady hand?
[16:12]
B
It's incredible. I mean, she. She does special effects for like, Harry Potter and World War Z or whatever, so she, like does hyper realistic paintings. So she's actually like, is. She's picked it up very Quickly.
[16:25]
A
Good. So you're very inspired by the past. You're inspired by the past in your references, in the materials you're working with, how you're working, and I guess in your design as well, the symbolism that you use. How many kind of symbols have you got that talk about love? Because when you said a snake wreck around the moon, I imagine that's about eternity and oh, my God, love.
[16:50]
B
So many. I mean, most of our bespoke designs are about love. It's all about love. When you. When you're purchasing something so meaningful and it's jewelry, it's going to be about the love with your husband or wife or the love of your children, or the love of someone who has passed away, or the love of a pet or the love of yourself. We get lots of self gifts as well.
[17:15]
A
Oh, really? Yeah.
[17:16]
B
So we use lots of symbolism. For example, swallows. We use swallows a lot, especially for, like, children, because swallows are symbolic of traveling long distances but always returning home.
[17:29]
A
Was that you were inspired by Oscar Wilde's book? Yes, the Happy Prince.
[17:35]
B
The Happy Prince, which honestly breaks my heart every time I think about the story. The Happy Prince is basically a story about selfless love and it's about a prince statue in a town square who sees all the poor people in his village. And a little. Is it a crow or a sparrow? I can't remember what the bird is. But he becomes best friends with the statue. And the statue says, take all the gold off me. Take my sapphire eyes, take the rubies off my body and give them to the people that need it. And in the end, the statue dies and the swallow dies with him instead of traveling across the world with all his other swallow friends. And it's absolutely heartbreaking.
[18:20]
A
But you use that as a symbol for the sacrificial love of a parent. What?
[18:26]
B
Yes, exactly, exactly.
[18:28]
A
Steal for their child.
[18:29]
B
And it's my dad's favourite story, so it kind of feeds into that form of love, which is very beautiful.
[18:37]
A
And then you do a lot of engraving. Of what? Initials.
[18:40]
B
Oh, my God, so many initials. Secret messages.
[18:43]
A
Do you secrete those on the inside of the band or are they.
[18:47]
B
I mean, I actually like to do it on the outside of the band.
[18:51]
A
Because other people can see it.
[18:53]
B
Well, yeah, I mean, I just. I like to mix it up a bit. I love tattoos, old school sailor tattoos. So I. I like that sort of chunky, like, kitsch element as well as something that's quite romanticized. So block lettering, like old English lettering on the outside of the wedding band or what Yeah, I mean, engraving is fantastic because you can really get in at any angle on the ring. So on the underside, on the inside, on the outside, it's just a brilliant canvas for secret messages.
[19:23]
A
Can you tell us some of those messages? I mean, very romantic ones.
[19:27]
B
Very romantic ones we've actually had. This is just fresh off my mind, but we have this. One of our best sellers is this sweet, sugary pink heart on a signet ring. And it's got an engraved banner beneath it. And you can have anything you want engraved on the banner, which is fantastic. People send in, you know, they want their initials with their partner or. But someone's just ordered one where they've done their initial and. And then left it blank because they haven't found their true love yet. And then when they do, they'll send it back to us and we'll fill it in, which I think is fantastic.
[20:03]
A
Very good. Yeah. I mean, I think when posy rings were really popular in the kind of Renaissance, some goldsmiths had generic sayings of be true to my heart, my heart is yours, tell me you're mine. They had these generic sayings. So people who were maybe feeling something about somebody but didn't know what to say could just pick one of the sayings. Do you think you'll. You have that. Do you have that on your website?
[20:32]
B
Yeah, definitely. We have all those kind of sayings. I mean, I'm such a romantic and a sucker for those sayings. We have, like Forever and Love Never Dies and Be Lucky and lots of sayings that feel like people can instantly resonate with. And actually, our new collection coming up is all about love. It's about fairy tale love. So the love that you read in stories that's absolutely epic and they run off into the sunset. And one piece came back from our workshop that's finished and it's got a little yellow sun and diamond moon, and on the side is engraved, you are my sun, my moon and all of my stars, which I know will resonate with a lot of people because it's such a sweet little poem. And I'm excited because that's another way for people to sort of express their love to each other if they can't think of a bespoke or don't have time.
[21:21]
A
And when you talk about pets, that was another thing when you went viral, wasn't it, with the Taylor Swift pet. That was a Taylor Swift pet. So what happened there?
[21:31]
B
So that was actually another gift from a celebrity to another celebrity because we did this really fun thing on instagram and it was like guess the celeb pet. And I designed like a sort of the Chanel cat in a handbag. And we did Taylor Swift's cat, Benjamin Button. And it was really fun, playful marketing activation. And Gigi Hadid follows us and she messaged going, oh my God, can I get these for my girls? Her girls, meaning Taylor Swift and Kendall Jenner.
[22:01]
A
So we were like her squad. Her squad. We call it a squad.
[22:04]
B
Her girl squad. We were like, absolutely, you can. So we made the rings for them and she then gifted them to the two girls. Her squad. And us making the Benjamin Button cat for Taylor Swift then became a very big moment, which was fantastic.
[22:22]
A
And to lots of other people. I think more people have their animals done on rings and commemorated, don't they?
[22:28]
B
Oh my God, yeah. I mean it's been going on for centuries. I was walking around the National Portrait Gallery the other day and there's sort of paintings of men standing next to their sort of huge great hounds. And it's been going since forever, but it's become quite a thing again now, I believe.
[22:46]
A
It's very sweet.
[22:47]
B
Yeah.
[22:48]
A
And I think, you know, with your bespoke clients to tease out what you're going to paint and what you're going to design, do you have to tease out their stories, have to sit with them, get to know them a little bit?
[23:01]
B
Yes. I mean it's such a personal process and it completely depends on the client. Some people know exactly what they want and they'll send it in a bullet pointed email and I'm like, great, that makes my job very easy. Or some people go, I want something beautiful but I have no idea what I want. And then it's much more like a one to one conversation. And it can take up to one month or one year. Like it kind of depends on the client and how ready they are or how influenced they are or, you know, it's completely dependent on their character.
[23:32]
A
And you find out very, very personal things.
[23:35]
B
Yes. I feel like a therapist sometimes.
[23:38]
A
Well, I think you must do because you've got to be privy to their innermost personal world.
[23:46]
B
It's quite magical. I mean, it does. I sometimes have to stop and remind myself how incredible it is that these people trust me with, you know, their life story and the importance of it. And I have to hold that very dearly and carefully and bring it to life in the form of a ring. And I think that's just such a beautiful thing.
[24:06]
A
And you must hear also some strange traditions that people have in their, in their Love stories.
[24:13]
B
Yes, totally. I mean, I will definitely not divulge secret information, but we did all love the fact that once a man came to us and he proposed his girlfriend with a portrait of his eye. And that's a very old fashioned thing.
[24:31]
A
Is, you know, I. Georgian England.
[24:35]
B
Exactly.
[24:36]
A
Portrait miniatures.
[24:37]
B
It was kind of incredible. And half the office we were divided. Some people going, oh my God, that's so romantic. And other people going, oh my God, no way.
[24:47]
A
That sort of eye following.
[24:48]
B
Yes, exactly. But I was obsessed with the idea. I think it's fantastic.
[24:53]
A
Well, I suppose originally it was because only you would know that eye so close up. And it would be just between you and the recipient of the ring.
[25:03]
B
Exactly. I think it's deeply, deeply romantic.
[25:07]
A
I think one of the most romantic I know of was when Tyrone Power went to Fulco de Verdura to have a jewel made for his wife at the time, and I can't remember, she was an actress and he couldn't decide what to have and what to give her. And so Fulker said, well, what do you feel like if you could give her anything in the world, what would you give her? And he said, I'd give her my heart wrapped in a ribbon.
[25:35]
B
Oh my gosh.
[25:36]
A
And that's what he made her. He made him a ruby studded heart wrapped in a ribbon. And it's sort of become one of their classic jewels.
[25:45]
B
That is incredible.
[25:46]
A
It becomes slightly spoiled when, you know, they actually got divorced ultimately. And how can you divorce somebody who gives you that kind of gift?
[25:55]
B
That's insane. That's quite a magical story, though.
[25:59]
A
So that, that was a beautiful one. But I suppose it does love, as you say, it can sometimes be about loss or unrequited love, which is very poignant. As in the case of. Of Cathy and Heathcliff.
[26:13]
B
Yes.
[26:14]
A
Although not apparently by the reviews of the film. They have requited it in Emerald Fennell's film quite a lot, apparently.
[26:22]
B
Oh, that's so good.
[26:24]
A
And of course, she came on the red carpet at one point with a piece of jewelry that had been replicated that Charlotte Bronte had had a jewel made containing locks of hair from her lost sisters, Emily and Anne. And you've been very inspired by morning jewelry, haven't you?
[26:42]
B
Yes. So we actually, I spe my childhood growing up always looking at this table in my grandfather's office. And it's very traditional and old, old school. And it's like a glass top and you can see like it's a display table. And inside that table would be all this morning jewelry from my granddad's brother, who died very young. And there's a black locker, it's fully black enamel, and inside is a lock of his hair. And I was kind of disturbed by it my whole childhood, because it is quite. There's something very disturbing but also deeply heartbreaking and beautiful about having a lock of someone's hair in a locket. And that then really inspired me to create a set of lockets last year, where this. This idea of opening something up and having a secret message about a loved one. But obviously this sort of. The concept of hair is taking it to a whole new level. I don't know if I'd want to use real hair now.
[27:41]
A
Has anyone asked you for real hair?
[27:43]
B
Yes. I feel like it's too personal of a thing to do. I don't know. We sort of had a big discussion about it here in our team and we felt like it maybe was a bit too personal because you're dealing with someone at that moment where there's quite a lot of fresh grief and dealing with jewellery and clients is already very delicate because it's about something so special. So we felt like perhaps it was a bit too. Too personal. But I think it's a beautiful concept and it's very haunting.
[28:15]
A
It's very haunting. And what people feel in that process is a tangible part of the person they can keep and hold on to.
[28:24]
B
Yes, exactly. Which I completely understand, but I guess in the way we kind of. I like to use that through paintings. So for memorial pieces, we do lots of rosemary painting, miniature rosemary, which is for remembrance. Lots of forget me not flowers. So we use symbolism in that way to remember.
[28:45]
A
So going back to the language of flowers, the Victorian. Exactly, yes. How every flower had a meaning.
[28:51]
B
Oh, my God, that's my favourite thing.
[28:52]
A
So what. What flowers are you doing at the moment?
[28:55]
B
What flowers am I doing at the moment? The main thing I can think of is we do so many forget me nots in all different shapes and colors and sizes. I mean, we've just created a ring with dinosaurs on and sunflowers because the client is in a wheelchair. And I believe sunflowers are the flower that represents that disability she has. So that was a really beautiful one to create. And the dinosaurs, just because she absolutely loves dinosaurs. So why not?
[29:25]
A
I mean, that's not a combination that you would ever see anywhere.
[29:28]
B
And you know what? The ring shelves, so cool.
[29:34]
A
So people really just have whatever they have.
[29:37]
B
It's almost intimidating when I sit down to design my own bespoke you sort of go, oh, my God, do I even know myself? What do I want? What do I like? Because you can create anything.
[29:48]
A
And you have collection called Extraordinary Lovers, don't you? So do you get inspired by people's love stories?
[29:56]
B
Yes. Oh, my gosh, deeply. I mean, that was such a fun collection to design because it was our version of an engagement ring range, which is, of course, all about love. So we did three types of love. So, for example, one ring is all about abundance and sensual love. So very Wuthering Heights. And it's a diamond studded fruit bowl overflowing with fruits, sort of juicy apples and peonies and everything that represents love on fire.
[30:28]
A
Sort of voluptuousness.
[30:29]
B
Exactly. Which is so fun to design. Whereas another one is a bit more memento mori. So we have shells and a seascape, but at the very bottom, there's some painted pearls which represent new life, and then a skull which represents end of life. So it's this idea that love is eternal. It lasts from beginning to end.
[30:51]
A
Are there any love stories in literature or in real life that you often have? As this is my ideal love story.
[31:00]
B
At the moment, because I was designing the new collection, Romeo and Juliet is very much in my mind because there's this scene in Baz Luhrmann's film where they. They look at each other through a fish tank and there's a beautiful song playing. And there's something about that scene that is just pulls on my heartstrings. So I've been watching that over and over again when I'm designing this new collection. It's kind of like, again, very similar to Kathleen Heathcliff. It's dramatic love. It's love that's like so intense that it burns. And it can't last forever because it's too beautiful. It's too incredible and tragic.
[31:38]
A
But your rings will last forever.
[31:40]
B
Yes, they sure will.
[31:41]
A
So you interpret the love story onto the ring that will last?
[31:46]
B
Yes, definitely.
[31:49]
A
When you have sat down to do. What did you do when you got engaged? I mean, it must be impossible for your husband or. Sorry, is it husband or partner? Husband, yes. For your husband to give you a love jewel. How does he give you a love jewel?
[32:04]
B
I know. I mean, I asked him, please let me make my own engagement ring. We've been together for like 11, 12 years now. He was like, I've got this. I know you so well that I know what I'm gonna design, so leave it with me. And I was like, okay. I like the confidence.
[32:23]
A
Yes.
[32:23]
B
He got a beautiful diamond ring made for me and I love it and I wear it every day. But because I am obsessed with jewellery, I had to make myself an extra ring to wear next to it. And my wedding band. So.
[32:40]
A
And so what did the extra ring did that have?
[32:43]
B
That's actually just got diamonds all the way around?
[32:45]
A
Diamonds. Okay. Like an eternity.
[32:48]
B
Exactly.
[32:49]
A
But have you made one for him?
[32:51]
B
Yes, I made him a signet ring and he was actually one of my most difficult customers, I must admit. And it's a crane balancing on one leg because his dad always says to him, keep the balance. And on the side of the ring is lots of ones and zeros engraved, which is basically like code for what builds the Internet that says I love you. Because he works in tech. So it's a very modern, romantic message.
[33:19]
A
The thing that I think will what's so interesting, what you're doing, it's very discreet in the way that other people can't interpret it. Only the couple can interpret it.
[33:32]
B
That's where the magic lies is it's. You're right, it's so to one person. We made a little signet ring the other day with a radish on it. Just to one person that's just a radish, but to the customer, that's what the partner calls them. And it's very meaningful and deep and sweet. So it's kind of like these meaningless objects become meaningful and only the wearer knows it.
[33:57]
A
So you must love the bespoke work most of all.
[34:01]
B
I do. It really keeps me on my toes. It's kind of where we get to learn about our customer, which is so exciting and wonderful. And sometimes people will come with ideas and I'll go, oh, I don't know if that's going to be beautiful. And it comes out incredible. And I love it more than anything else.
[34:20]
A
Yeah, they're inspiring you all the time.
[34:22]
B
All the time. We had this one customer who was, I'm gonna say it's a self love ring. And he had a dream that he was a lion and was defeated or like attacked a crocodile. And he killed a crocodile. And it was his awakening. And he came to me with that story going, can you please put that on a ring? And I was like, wow, that's powerful.
[34:46]
A
And do people come to you for Valentine's Day?
[34:49]
B
They do. It's usually our pieces that we sell online, which we make. I mean, lots of our, lots of our designs are very, you know, tattooy and love hearts and skeletons. So it's kind of perfect for Valentine's Day.
[35:02]
A
Why are they tattooy?
[35:05]
B
I just. I'm obsessed with sailor tattoos. I don't have many. My dad's got quite a lot. He used to be a deep sea diver. So I think my fascination with that part of the sort of world I was always drawn to.
[35:18]
A
And you've got a few then?
[35:19]
B
I've got a few, but they're very small. On your arms I've got a little snake.
[35:25]
A
Oh, there a snake on your wrist.
[35:27]
B
Snake on my wrist. Little horseshoe, a little moon. The classic.
[35:31]
A
Okay, so very symbolic.
[35:33]
B
Yes, exactly. And those are things. There's a sort of symbols that I use in my designs all the time, but I just love the symbolism of tattoos, especially sailor tattoos.
[35:43]
A
So that would be easy if your husband was coming to you to get something made for you.
[35:51]
B
Exactly.
[35:53]
A
That's what he'd do.
[35:55]
B
Yes.
[35:56]
A
What else would you have on it for you?
[35:58]
B
Well. Oh, my God.
[35:59]
A
See, this is.
[36:00]
B
As soon as you start thinking about what you like, it's really hard. I just created a gorgeous big ring for myself and it's got a pig, a flying pig on each side inside a sweet little window with blue sky and fluffy clouds. And that is because my husband is the Chinese knee of the pig. And the colors are just delicious. It's like this pale pink and pale blue and it's very happy. And it says, you are my sunshine around the diamond. So that was the last persuasion I made myself.
[36:33]
A
And so you spend most of the day drawing, Designing and drawing?
[36:36]
B
Yeah, with my mum, which is lovely.
[36:39]
A
And the next collection will be called.
[36:42]
B
Once Upon a Time.
[36:44]
A
That's the fairy tale.
[36:45]
B
That's the fairy tale collection, which is very exciting. It's a sort of girly dream collection with diamond encrusted hand mirrors and blue ribbons and pink roses. Everything you can imagine in a fairy tale.
[36:59]
A
And the lovely thing is that when these things are found in years to come, either at auction or, you know, maybe even along the river, discarded or fallen off, it will tell a story. People will be able to try and fathom out this story by what you've created.
[37:18]
B
That would be incredible. I'd love someone to find an old CC Jewelry signet ring in the Thames maybe in sort of 200 years time. That would be incredible.
[37:26]
A
Try and decipher the meaning. Yes, the love story.
[37:30]
B
That will live on. Exactly. How romantic.
[37:33]
A
Well, happy Valentine's Day, CC Valentine's Day. Thank you so much. And many congratulations on these famous rings.
[37:42]
B
Thank you very much. It was wonderful to chat.
[37:49]
A
Thank you for listening for this and other episodes of if Jules Could Talk, please go to our website carolwilson.com do share it any way you can and we love to have a rating and a comment. The book of the podcast if Jules Could Talk will be out in paperback very soon, so keep your eyes out for that. I'm Arolwalton on Instagram and and to hear more about our sponsors, please go to www.leibish.com. if Jules could Talk with Carol Woolton is produced by Natasha Cowan Music and editing by Tim Thornton Graphics by Scott Bentley Illustration by Jordi laband. Sam.

Summary6 min read

Podcast Summary: If Jewels Could Talk with Carol Woolton

Episode: Valentine’s Bonus: Love Jewels with Cece
Date: February 14, 2026
Host: Carol Woolton
Guest: Cece Fine Hughes

Main Theme & Purpose

A sparkling Valentine’s Day special delving into “love jewels”—the jewellery that tells love stories across eras, from legendary romance and mourning to modern-day personalised symbols. Carol Woolton is joined by renowned British jeweller Cece Fine Hughes to discuss her celebrated approach to bespoke, story-rich jewels, famous collaborations, historical inspirations, and the enduring power of jewellery as tokens of affection, remembrance, and self-love.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Impact of Love Jewels in History and Today

Carol opens with a thank you to listeners for helping secure the Tudor Heart jewel for the British Museum, describing its poignant declaration of love between Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon.
Quote (03:32):
“It's a love jewel so it's a good jewel to talk about today.” — Carol
The history of posy rings, engraved with love messages (“This gift is small, but love is all. When you see this, remember me, MB”), sets the stage for the episode’s focus on the stories behind jewels.

2. Cece’s Work: From Hollywood to Heirlooms

Cece was commissioned to design signet rings for Jacob Elordi and Margot Robbie for the press tour of Wuthering Heights, featuring two skeletons embracing and the quote:
Quote (06:11):
“Whatever our souls are made of, his and mine are the same.” — Cece
- The design references both the Wuthering Heights movie poster and the classic film Gone with the Wind, connecting contemporary jewellery to romantic narratives of the past.
- Cece’s process balances creativity and collaboration, drawing on historical pieces and adapting her best-selling “Love Never Dies” design for this project.

3. Translating Deep Meaning onto Tiny Canvases

Cece discusses fitting complex stories onto small signet rings through layers of engraving, enamel, and stones:
Quote (10:04):
“You kind of have to be a magician and create this story that's full of meaning on something so small.”
She observes a shift from generic, heart-shaped love tokens towards highly personalized designs that narrate individual stories, leveraging enamel work for its storytelling depth.

4. The Art and Challenge of Enamel Work

Cece draws inspiration from historical examples like a French Renaissance enameled band with hidden messages.
- She chooses champlevé enamel for its painterly quality and ability to create miniature, highly detailed images:
  Quote (13:29):
  “Champlevé is basically like a mini oil painting in glass.”
She notes the scarcity of talented enamelers and her own luck in finding an exceptional craftsman, highlighting the importance of training to keep the art alive.

5. Symbolism and Self-Expression in Jewellery

The conversation explores symbols like swallows (return home), snakes (eternity), and the use of engraved initials and secret messages, both on the inside and outside of bands.
Cece shares examples, such as:
- Creating a ring for a customer to fill in with a partner’s initial when they find true love (19:27)
- Using Victorian-style sayings and tailoring them for modern collections.

6. Pet Portraits, Celebrity Gifts, and Viral Moments

Cece describes how her pet-themed signet rings became a hit after Gigi Hadid commissioned personalized rings for Taylor Swift and Kendall Jenner:
Quote (22:04):
"Her girl squad. We were like, absolutely, you can." — Cece
Pet and animal motifs continue a historic tradition of commemorating beloved companions, now revived in playful bespoke pieces.

7. The Intimate Process of Bespoke Design

Designing for clients ranges from executing clear briefs to gently teasing out deeply personal stories, sometimes resembling therapy:
Quote (23:46):
"These people trust me with their life story... I have to hold that very dearly and carefully and bring it to life in the form of a ring."
Secret, symbolic meanings—like eyes in Georgian portrait miniatures, or highly individualized objects (a radish, a lion defeating a crocodile)—make each piece unique.

8. Love, Loss, and the Language of Flowers

The conversation reflects on mourning jewellery—lockets with hair from loved ones, and how Cece now prefers symbolic, less literal motifs (rosemary, forget-me-nots) for remembrance.
Using the Victorian “language of flowers,” Cece incorporates meaningful blooms into her pieces, including custom designs for clients with highly specific requests.

9. Collections, Inspiration, and Self-Gifting

Cece’s Extraordinary Lovers collection interprets different types of love: sensual (overflowing fruit bowls), eternal (shells, skulls, pearls), and more.
Literature and film (notably Romeo & Juliet and Wuthering Heights) provide ongoing inspiration for her fairy-tale-inflected collections.
Cece reveals the challenge—and joy—of self-design, reflecting how difficult it is to distill one’s own story when anything is possible.

10. Tattoos, Personal Symbols, and Discrete Meanings

Cece’s design language is steeped in tattoo symbolism, sailor culture, and secret codes—often meaningful only to the wearer and their loved ones.
A personal anecdote: her husband gave her a classic diamond ring, while she crafted for him a crane (for balance) and binary-encoded love message reflecting his work in tech (32:50).

11. The Timelessness and Future of Love Jewels

Carol and Cece muse about the prospect of future generations uncovering these deeply personal pieces—each a story waiting to be decoded:
Quote (37:29):
"Try and decipher the meaning. Yes, the love story. That will live on. Exactly. How romantic." — Cece

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On crafting emotion into metal:
"It’s given as a love jewel, whether that's romantic love, friendship, parental, sibling… It's given for somebody to think about the receiver." — Carol (04:19)
On the power of miniature art:
"Our enamelers are like masters in miniature. Their paintbrush is like the size of a cat's whisker." — Cece (10:56)
On secret messages:
"We made a little signet ring the other day with a radish on it. Just to one person, that's just a radish. But to the customer, that's what the partner calls them." — Cece (33:31)
On the emotional value of jewellery:
"It's quite magical. Sometimes I have to stop and remind myself how incredible it is that these people trust me with their life story." — Cece (23:46)
On future discovery:
"I'd love someone to find an old CC Jewelry signet ring in the Thames maybe in sort of 200 years time. That would be incredible." — Cece (37:17)

Important Timestamps & Segments

[04:00]–[05:00]: Recap of the Tudor Heart campaign and its significance as a love jewel
[06:00]–[08:30]: Designing the Wuthering Heights signet rings for Jacob Elordi and Margot Robbie
[09:50]–[11:56]: The challenges and artistry of fitting stories on small rings; shift toward personalisation
[13:09]–[14:32]: The champlevé enameling process described
[17:14]–[18:29]: Swallows, Oscar Wilde’s The Happy Prince, and symbolism for family and sacrifice
[19:27]: Customer orders a ring with their initial and a blank, to be filled in when they meet “the one”
[21:20]–[22:22]: Gigi Hadid, Taylor Swift “Benjamin Button” cat signet ring story
[26:41]–[28:45]: Morning jewellery, lockets with hair, and remembrance symbolism
[32:50]–[33:31]: Cece’s engagement and wedding rings; creating secret messages
[36:41]–[37:29]: “Once Upon a Time” fairytale collection and the hope that these jewels’ stories will be rediscovered in the far future

Tone & Style

Warm, witty, deeply romantic, and thoroughly informed, with Carol’s historian’s perspective blending seamlessly with Cece’s creativity and emotional intelligence. The conversation is open, candid, and peppered with delightful anecdotes and thoughtful reflections.

In Short:
This episode is an ode to the intimate and everlasting bonds that jewellery can capture—whether for a lover, a friend, a beloved pet, or oneself. Listeners are reminded that every jewel, no matter how small, can be a powerful vessel for story, memory, and meaning.

Loading summary

Transcript181 lines

[00:01]
A
This episode is brought to you by Leibish, the coloured diamond jewelry experts. Did you know that pink diamonds are amongst the rarest diamonds and over 90% came from the Argyle Mine in Australia, which closed in 2020?
[00:22]
B
I mean, I'm such a romantic and a sucker for those sayings we have, like Forever and Love Never Dies and Be Lucky and lots of sayings that feel like people can instantly resonate with. And actually, our new collection coming up is all about love. It's about fairy tale love. So the love that you read in stories that's absolutely epic and they run off into the sunset.
[00:46]
A
I'm Carole Houlton, the voice of jewellery. Welcome to if Jules Could Talk. I'm an author and broadcaster and the woman who initiated the role of jewellery editor at magazines like Tatler and Vogue. This is a podcast for everyone, for people who do like jewellery, for people who don't realise they like jewellery, and anyone intrigued by fascinating facts, new ideas and forgotten histories. So join me as I tell sparkly tales and meet all sorts of people delving into four centuries of jewelry culture and investigate what's happening now. This is our Valentine's Day special. It's a gift to all of you and to our sponsors, Leibish. We're all united in our love for jewellery and we want to thank you for your support. I also want to thank you for reacting to our podcast on the Tudor Heart. It was a special episode that. That we recorded before all the newspapers had the information about the history and research of the Tudor Heart jewel dating back to 1511 and Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon. And last October, the British Museum launched a campaign to raise? 3.5 million to secure the jewel for the nation and keep it within the British Museum collection. And I want to thank all of you because, A you told us how much you enjoyed that episode, but B, I know how many people actually did support the campaign from the if Jewels Collabor Talk community. And I want to share with you a wonderful email that we've received from Dr. Rachel King at the British Museum saying what an important part the podcast played in the campaign. She writes. And finally, there is the not so small matter of donations. 45,000 individual gifts were made and many were clearly the result of hearing us speak your generosity in featuring the jewel and galvanized and mobilized a community. So I want to thank all of you because together we made a real difference and a contribution for that wonderful jewel to be acquired for all of us to see and visit. And of course, it's a love jewel so it's a good jewel to talk about today. And if you haven't heard that episode, do go back to the library and hear it. It's the H and K for Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon, tied in a lover's knot. It's about Henry's love for Catherine. She was his queen and wife and regent, sometimes in times of his absence, for 24 years. That's way longer than any of his subsequent wives. Underneath their initials is a banner reading Toujour always, which is a poignant declaration of an eternal connection. So it's wonderful news that that jewel will be on permanent display at the British Museum. So if you haven't seen it, you should go and see it. And then I know it's going to go on tour on a sort of global tour, so I'll keep you posted as to where it will be and then if any of you are nearby and want to go and see it, you can. Now we're going to talk about other love jewels and I'm delighted to welcome my guest today, Cece Fine Hughes. I'm here on Valentine's Day to talk about love jewels. Now, there is a posy ring. Posy rings were given as love tokens from about the 15th century which were engraved with little messages. And there is one in the British Museum that's engraved with the words, this gift is small, but love is all. When you see this, remember me, mb. So we don't know who MB is, but I kind of think that this is the sentiment that all jewellery is given in. It's given as a love jewel for whether that's love, romantic love, friendship, parental, sibling, it's given for somebody to think about the receiver. And I'm here with British jeweler Cece Fine Hughes, who's known for her fine and detailed craftsmanship using hand painted enamel. But more than that, she uses symbolism and classical references to narrate stories of love through her jewellery. Cece, thank you very much for joining us this morning.
[05:14]
B
Thank you for having me. How very exciting.
[05:16]
A
And we have to reference the fact that cece has captured global headlines recently because she made signet rings for Jacob, Elodie and Margot Robbie to wear on their press tour for the new film made by Oscar winning director Emerald Fennell, who's been a previous guest on if Jules Could Talk. And she's made a film of Wuthering Heights based on Emily Bronte's Gothic novel. And Jacob and Margot portray the doomed couple, Heathcliff and Cathy. And the film opened last night. So congr, congratulations Cece, you've had so much publicity about this.
[05:53]
B
I know it's been pretty crazy, to be honest.
[05:56]
A
And I want to know. Obviously, we want to know more about these rings. Tell us what's on them for a start. How is this love story captured on the ring?
[06:04]
B
So they're a matching pair of signet ring. One is extra large for Jacob, and one is a little bit smaller for Margot. And they feature two skeletons embracing exactly like the movie poster, where their sort of chins are touching. And it's very romantic. And they're surrounded by red enamel roses and thorns and black writing, which is the very famous quote, whatever our souls are made of, his and mine are the same. Which is very. Oh, it's just whimsical, gothic, romantic. It just.
[06:40]
A
And eternal forever.
[06:41]
B
Exactly. With the skeletons in the center. It's like love lasts forever, basically.
[06:46]
A
And it's interesting that skeletons are in the same position as on the poster, because that is inspired by the famous film Gone with the Wind, and it was the great love story of Rhett Butler and Scarlett o'. Hara. So you've got another reference to a tumultuous love story.
[07:05]
B
Fantastic. I mean, designing the rings, it's just. That's my, like, kryptonite is getting into that sort of deep love and romance portrayed through history. It was so beautiful to bring them to life. And on the side, they're engraved with C and H, which is obviously Cathy and Heathcliff.
[07:22]
A
How did it happen? How. I mean, did Margot come to you? I mean, had they seen your work? How did it come about?
[07:31]
B
We worked really closely with Andrew, her stylist, who is getting so much recognition at the moment. He's fantastic. I mean, her looks for each premiere have been incredible.
[07:41]
A
So that's Andrew McCamall.
[07:43]
B
Yes, exactly. I worked closely with him to design the rings, really? And there was lots of back and forth, lots of tweaking, and the result is beautiful.
[07:54]
A
So had he seen your work before?
[07:56]
B
Yes. So actually, the rings were inspired by a very old collection of ours, and it's a ring called Love Never Dies. And it's actually got two skeletons, and it's one of our best sellers, and it's teeny, tiny, but he basically said, I love this ring. Can we build on this design? So, for me, it was wonderful and fantastic because I could really sort of use my. He obviously liked our style of rings, which is refreshing when you're working with someone who's also creative. So he kind of trusted me to do my thing, and I trusted him to do his and we kind of, like, came together with these gorgeous rings.
[08:33]
A
And was it a real gift from Margot to Jacob? Did she know about this? Or this was something dreamt up by the stylist.
[08:42]
B
So she did know about it. Yeah. Which was great. So it was like I was talking to Andrew, Andrew was talking to Margot. So there was kind of that conversation.
[08:50]
A
Going, but, yeah, triangular conversation.
[08:52]
B
Exactly.
[08:54]
A
And so it was sparked from her saying, I do want to give Jacob something.
[08:58]
B
I believe so, yes. Which is kind of magical. And that's the best way to. When you're working with, you know, celebrities, it feels much more personal when it's a gift from one to the other. I think there's much more sort of meaning behind it, which I love.
[09:15]
A
Well, everything on their press tour has resonated with something, hasn't it? Oh, my God. I know. There have been so many love jewels.
[09:23]
B
I know.
[09:25]
A
I mean, they've had the Taj Mahal diamond, Elizabeth Taylor's Taj Mahal diamond, that came from a great love story from Nur Jahan. It's inscribed with her name and love is everlasting. That was passed to her son. Her son was the one who built the Taj Mahal, landed up being owned by Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton. A tumultuous love story there. Love stories all over the place.
[09:48]
B
It's incredible. I mean, it's really fed into the buildup of the film. It's, like, fantastic.
[09:54]
A
But how did you fit so much on to a pinky ring? How did you fit all that engraving on?
[10:01]
B
An excellent question. I mean, I feel like that is literally my whole job, my whole life. I spend most of my time designing bespoke signet rings for our customers. And I will get sometimes emails, PDF documents of what they want to include, and I need to translate that onto a ring that's like, 7 millimeters. And it's like you kind of have to be a magician and create this story that's full of meaning on something so small, on a tiny, tiny little canvas of gold. I was actually really happy because the rings are quite large compared to our little dainty signet rings. But it's always a combination of layering for me, so it's the mixture of engraving and enamel work and stones where you can really pull together a story. And that's kind of what I did with these rings, with the diamond border, which brings that kind of glitzy romance. And then you have the enamel painting, which, I mean, our enamelers are like masters in miniature. So they can get so detailed. Their paintbrush is like the size of a cat's whisker. And they wear magnifying glasses. So that's kind of like our bread and butter.
[11:13]
A
Do you think people have moved on from sort of generic heart shaped stones and very, very obvious love tokens and wanting to make it totally personal about them and their story?
[11:28]
B
Definitely. I mean, that is why enamel, for me is my brand is just a dream to work with. Because people can come to us and we can tell their story in so much more detail than just a stone shape. And, you know, enamel's been used for centuries just for that exact reason to paint a story. Whether it's a flower that you're gifting that's forever immortalized in gold rather than a fresh flower. I just think there's so much that can be done with enamel.
[11:56]
A
Tell me why you focused on enamel?
[11:59]
B
I mean, I studied history of art, so I've always been kind of obsessed with sort of allegorical symbolism. You know, sort of in a painting, you'll have someone holding a lemon and that lemon will mean something. So that fascination, I guess I sort of found enamel and I realized I could sort of create beautiful paintings on gold rather than paper and tell beautiful stories in much more of a painterly way.
[12:29]
A
And were there any particular jewels that you saw when you were studying that you thought the enamel that really inspired you?
[12:37]
B
Yes. So I remember many years ago now, I saw this French renaissance enameled band in the va and it had little pink flowers and daisies alternating all the way around. And each one had a compartment that you opened that had a little message in. And it's just I'm still obsessed with that ring. And I remember seeing that for the first time going, I have not seen anything like that in this current day, that detailed. And that champlivet enamel, which is very painterly. So that was the ring that kind of inspired it all.
[13:10]
A
Tell me about the champlav enamel and why you chose to use that. Because there are a few different styles, aren't there, of guilloche that Faberge used to use and plique a jour like a stained glass window. But you, you've chosen champlain. Why is that? Describe it to the listeners as well.
[13:28]
B
The only way I can describe it is. Is painterly. So you can paint. I mean, I've got dogs and cats in my mind because I was just taking photos of some pup portrait signet rings that we do quite a lot. But you can paint a miniature version of your little cat with a pink ribbon around its neck, and it looks exactly like your cat. Whereas other forms of enamel are usually flat block colours. So you get a deep red or a deep blue. But Champlev is basically like a mini oil painting in glass and it's making.
[14:00]
A
A little trough in metal and filling it up with the enamel painting. So you have to engrave it on the surface first? Yes.
[14:09]
B
There are sort of like four steps to enamelling and that process. So it's engraved. Exactly. A trough which is then filled with white enamel. So it creates this canvas and then that's painted by hand on top with crushed different glass and colours and then covered in clear flux to create a flush, glassy finish. And constantly in and out of the kiln throughout the whole process.
[14:32]
A
So quite complex and very time consuming.
[14:35]
B
Oh, my God. Yeah, both of those things.
[14:37]
A
And you've got to have, as you say, these eagle eyes and steady hands. Yes.
[14:43]
B
I mean, I personally, I do not enamel myself. I wish I did, but I am in awe every single day of our enamel painters that can hold their hand that steady while painting with a whisker. It's just incredible.
[14:59]
A
Did you find it hard to find people with that skill?
[15:02]
B
And I think this is when I kind of believe in, like, luck. I stumbled across the best enamel, I'd say, in the world, because there are very few. By chance, on the first time I tried to find someone because I. After seeing the ring and the vna, I was like, I need to create my own. I have to. And I designed this little snake wrapping around a diamond moon, which is still on the website and sells very well. I was googling enamel and I stumbled across his website and I reached out to him and it's one of those moments in life where if I had found someone else and the enamel came back and it was a bit crappy, I would have gone next thing onto the other thing. But it was meant to be.
[15:44]
A
And now. How many do you work with still?
[15:46]
B
He's our main man. There's very few people in the world. We're training other people, so we can.
[15:52]
A
That's great.
[15:52]
B
Yeah.
[15:53]
A
I mean, awesome.
[15:54]
B
Enamel is a dying art. It's on the list of dying arts. So there's so many. So few people in the world that can do this skill.
[16:01]
A
So that's great that you're teaching other people.
[16:04]
B
Yes, exactly. Including my auntie. Yeah.
[16:10]
A
How's her steady hand?
[16:12]
B
It's incredible. I mean, she. She does special effects for like, Harry Potter and World War Z or whatever, so she, like does hyper realistic paintings. So she's actually like, is. She's picked it up very Quickly.
[16:25]
A
Good. So you're very inspired by the past. You're inspired by the past in your references, in the materials you're working with, how you're working, and I guess in your design as well, the symbolism that you use. How many kind of symbols have you got that talk about love? Because when you said a snake wreck around the moon, I imagine that's about eternity and oh, my God, love.
[16:50]
B
So many. I mean, most of our bespoke designs are about love. It's all about love. When you. When you're purchasing something so meaningful and it's jewelry, it's going to be about the love with your husband or wife or the love of your children, or the love of someone who has passed away, or the love of a pet or the love of yourself. We get lots of self gifts as well.
[17:15]
A
Oh, really? Yeah.
[17:16]
B
So we use lots of symbolism. For example, swallows. We use swallows a lot, especially for, like, children, because swallows are symbolic of traveling long distances but always returning home.
[17:29]
A
Was that you were inspired by Oscar Wilde's book? Yes, the Happy Prince.
[17:35]
B
The Happy Prince, which honestly breaks my heart every time I think about the story. The Happy Prince is basically a story about selfless love and it's about a prince statue in a town square who sees all the poor people in his village. And a little. Is it a crow or a sparrow? I can't remember what the bird is. But he becomes best friends with the statue. And the statue says, take all the gold off me. Take my sapphire eyes, take the rubies off my body and give them to the people that need it. And in the end, the statue dies and the swallow dies with him instead of traveling across the world with all his other swallow friends. And it's absolutely heartbreaking.
[18:20]
A
But you use that as a symbol for the sacrificial love of a parent. What?
[18:26]
B
Yes, exactly, exactly.
[18:28]
A
Steal for their child.
[18:29]
B
And it's my dad's favourite story, so it kind of feeds into that form of love, which is very beautiful.
[18:37]
A
And then you do a lot of engraving. Of what? Initials.
[18:40]
B
Oh, my God, so many initials. Secret messages.
[18:43]
A
Do you secrete those on the inside of the band or are they.
[18:47]
B
I mean, I actually like to do it on the outside of the band.
[18:51]
A
Because other people can see it.
[18:53]
B
Well, yeah, I mean, I just. I like to mix it up a bit. I love tattoos, old school sailor tattoos. So I. I like that sort of chunky, like, kitsch element as well as something that's quite romanticized. So block lettering, like old English lettering on the outside of the wedding band or what Yeah, I mean, engraving is fantastic because you can really get in at any angle on the ring. So on the underside, on the inside, on the outside, it's just a brilliant canvas for secret messages.
[19:23]
A
Can you tell us some of those messages? I mean, very romantic ones.
[19:27]
B
Very romantic ones we've actually had. This is just fresh off my mind, but we have this. One of our best sellers is this sweet, sugary pink heart on a signet ring. And it's got an engraved banner beneath it. And you can have anything you want engraved on the banner, which is fantastic. People send in, you know, they want their initials with their partner or. But someone's just ordered one where they've done their initial and. And then left it blank because they haven't found their true love yet. And then when they do, they'll send it back to us and we'll fill it in, which I think is fantastic.
[20:03]
A
Very good. Yeah. I mean, I think when posy rings were really popular in the kind of Renaissance, some goldsmiths had generic sayings of be true to my heart, my heart is yours, tell me you're mine. They had these generic sayings. So people who were maybe feeling something about somebody but didn't know what to say could just pick one of the sayings. Do you think you'll. You have that. Do you have that on your website?
[20:32]
B
Yeah, definitely. We have all those kind of sayings. I mean, I'm such a romantic and a sucker for those sayings. We have, like Forever and Love Never Dies and Be Lucky and lots of sayings that feel like people can instantly resonate with. And actually, our new collection coming up is all about love. It's about fairy tale love. So the love that you read in stories that's absolutely epic and they run off into the sunset. And one piece came back from our workshop that's finished and it's got a little yellow sun and diamond moon, and on the side is engraved, you are my sun, my moon and all of my stars, which I know will resonate with a lot of people because it's such a sweet little poem. And I'm excited because that's another way for people to sort of express their love to each other if they can't think of a bespoke or don't have time.
[21:21]
A
And when you talk about pets, that was another thing when you went viral, wasn't it, with the Taylor Swift pet. That was a Taylor Swift pet. So what happened there?
[21:31]
B
So that was actually another gift from a celebrity to another celebrity because we did this really fun thing on instagram and it was like guess the celeb pet. And I designed like a sort of the Chanel cat in a handbag. And we did Taylor Swift's cat, Benjamin Button. And it was really fun, playful marketing activation. And Gigi Hadid follows us and she messaged going, oh my God, can I get these for my girls? Her girls, meaning Taylor Swift and Kendall Jenner.
[22:01]
A
So we were like her squad. Her squad. We call it a squad.
[22:04]
B
Her girl squad. We were like, absolutely, you can. So we made the rings for them and she then gifted them to the two girls. Her squad. And us making the Benjamin Button cat for Taylor Swift then became a very big moment, which was fantastic.
[22:22]
A
And to lots of other people. I think more people have their animals done on rings and commemorated, don't they?
[22:28]
B
Oh my God, yeah. I mean it's been going on for centuries. I was walking around the National Portrait Gallery the other day and there's sort of paintings of men standing next to their sort of huge great hounds. And it's been going since forever, but it's become quite a thing again now, I believe.
[22:46]
A
It's very sweet.
[22:47]
B
Yeah.
[22:48]
A
And I think, you know, with your bespoke clients to tease out what you're going to paint and what you're going to design, do you have to tease out their stories, have to sit with them, get to know them a little bit?
[23:01]
B
Yes. I mean it's such a personal process and it completely depends on the client. Some people know exactly what they want and they'll send it in a bullet pointed email and I'm like, great, that makes my job very easy. Or some people go, I want something beautiful but I have no idea what I want. And then it's much more like a one to one conversation. And it can take up to one month or one year. Like it kind of depends on the client and how ready they are or how influenced they are or, you know, it's completely dependent on their character.
[23:32]
A
And you find out very, very personal things.
[23:35]
B
Yes. I feel like a therapist sometimes.
[23:38]
A
Well, I think you must do because you've got to be privy to their innermost personal world.
[23:46]
B
It's quite magical. I mean, it does. I sometimes have to stop and remind myself how incredible it is that these people trust me with, you know, their life story and the importance of it. And I have to hold that very dearly and carefully and bring it to life in the form of a ring. And I think that's just such a beautiful thing.
[24:06]
A
And you must hear also some strange traditions that people have in their, in their Love stories.
[24:13]
B
Yes, totally. I mean, I will definitely not divulge secret information, but we did all love the fact that once a man came to us and he proposed his girlfriend with a portrait of his eye. And that's a very old fashioned thing.
[24:31]
A
Is, you know, I. Georgian England.
[24:35]
B
Exactly.
[24:36]
A
Portrait miniatures.
[24:37]
B
It was kind of incredible. And half the office we were divided. Some people going, oh my God, that's so romantic. And other people going, oh my God, no way.
[24:47]
A
That sort of eye following.
[24:48]
B
Yes, exactly. But I was obsessed with the idea. I think it's fantastic.
[24:53]
A
Well, I suppose originally it was because only you would know that eye so close up. And it would be just between you and the recipient of the ring.
[25:03]
B
Exactly. I think it's deeply, deeply romantic.
[25:07]
A
I think one of the most romantic I know of was when Tyrone Power went to Fulco de Verdura to have a jewel made for his wife at the time, and I can't remember, she was an actress and he couldn't decide what to have and what to give her. And so Fulker said, well, what do you feel like if you could give her anything in the world, what would you give her? And he said, I'd give her my heart wrapped in a ribbon.
[25:35]
B
Oh my gosh.
[25:36]
A
And that's what he made her. He made him a ruby studded heart wrapped in a ribbon. And it's sort of become one of their classic jewels.
[25:45]
B
That is incredible.
[25:46]
A
It becomes slightly spoiled when, you know, they actually got divorced ultimately. And how can you divorce somebody who gives you that kind of gift?
[25:55]
B
That's insane. That's quite a magical story, though.
[25:59]
A
So that, that was a beautiful one. But I suppose it does love, as you say, it can sometimes be about loss or unrequited love, which is very poignant. As in the case of. Of Cathy and Heathcliff.
[26:13]
B
Yes.
[26:14]
A
Although not apparently by the reviews of the film. They have requited it in Emerald Fennell's film quite a lot, apparently.
[26:22]
B
Oh, that's so good.
[26:24]
A
And of course, she came on the red carpet at one point with a piece of jewelry that had been replicated that Charlotte Bronte had had a jewel made containing locks of hair from her lost sisters, Emily and Anne. And you've been very inspired by morning jewelry, haven't you?
[26:42]
B
Yes. So we actually, I spe my childhood growing up always looking at this table in my grandfather's office. And it's very traditional and old, old school. And it's like a glass top and you can see like it's a display table. And inside that table would be all this morning jewelry from my granddad's brother, who died very young. And there's a black locker, it's fully black enamel, and inside is a lock of his hair. And I was kind of disturbed by it my whole childhood, because it is quite. There's something very disturbing but also deeply heartbreaking and beautiful about having a lock of someone's hair in a locket. And that then really inspired me to create a set of lockets last year, where this. This idea of opening something up and having a secret message about a loved one. But obviously this sort of. The concept of hair is taking it to a whole new level. I don't know if I'd want to use real hair now.
[27:41]
A
Has anyone asked you for real hair?
[27:43]
B
Yes. I feel like it's too personal of a thing to do. I don't know. We sort of had a big discussion about it here in our team and we felt like it maybe was a bit too personal because you're dealing with someone at that moment where there's quite a lot of fresh grief and dealing with jewellery and clients is already very delicate because it's about something so special. So we felt like perhaps it was a bit too. Too personal. But I think it's a beautiful concept and it's very haunting.
[28:15]
A
It's very haunting. And what people feel in that process is a tangible part of the person they can keep and hold on to.
[28:24]
B
Yes, exactly. Which I completely understand, but I guess in the way we kind of. I like to use that through paintings. So for memorial pieces, we do lots of rosemary painting, miniature rosemary, which is for remembrance. Lots of forget me not flowers. So we use symbolism in that way to remember.
[28:45]
A
So going back to the language of flowers, the Victorian. Exactly, yes. How every flower had a meaning.
[28:51]
B
Oh, my God, that's my favourite thing.
[28:52]
A
So what. What flowers are you doing at the moment?
[28:55]
B
What flowers am I doing at the moment? The main thing I can think of is we do so many forget me nots in all different shapes and colors and sizes. I mean, we've just created a ring with dinosaurs on and sunflowers because the client is in a wheelchair. And I believe sunflowers are the flower that represents that disability she has. So that was a really beautiful one to create. And the dinosaurs, just because she absolutely loves dinosaurs. So why not?
[29:25]
A
I mean, that's not a combination that you would ever see anywhere.
[29:28]
B
And you know what? The ring shelves, so cool.
[29:34]
A
So people really just have whatever they have.
[29:37]
B
It's almost intimidating when I sit down to design my own bespoke you sort of go, oh, my God, do I even know myself? What do I want? What do I like? Because you can create anything.
[29:48]
A
And you have collection called Extraordinary Lovers, don't you? So do you get inspired by people's love stories?
[29:56]
B
Yes. Oh, my gosh, deeply. I mean, that was such a fun collection to design because it was our version of an engagement ring range, which is, of course, all about love. So we did three types of love. So, for example, one ring is all about abundance and sensual love. So very Wuthering Heights. And it's a diamond studded fruit bowl overflowing with fruits, sort of juicy apples and peonies and everything that represents love on fire.
[30:28]
A
Sort of voluptuousness.
[30:29]
B
Exactly. Which is so fun to design. Whereas another one is a bit more memento mori. So we have shells and a seascape, but at the very bottom, there's some painted pearls which represent new life, and then a skull which represents end of life. So it's this idea that love is eternal. It lasts from beginning to end.
[30:51]
A
Are there any love stories in literature or in real life that you often have? As this is my ideal love story.
[31:00]
B
At the moment, because I was designing the new collection, Romeo and Juliet is very much in my mind because there's this scene in Baz Luhrmann's film where they. They look at each other through a fish tank and there's a beautiful song playing. And there's something about that scene that is just pulls on my heartstrings. So I've been watching that over and over again when I'm designing this new collection. It's kind of like, again, very similar to Kathleen Heathcliff. It's dramatic love. It's love that's like so intense that it burns. And it can't last forever because it's too beautiful. It's too incredible and tragic.
[31:38]
A
But your rings will last forever.
[31:40]
B
Yes, they sure will.
[31:41]
A
So you interpret the love story onto the ring that will last?
[31:46]
B
Yes, definitely.
[31:49]
A
When you have sat down to do. What did you do when you got engaged? I mean, it must be impossible for your husband or. Sorry, is it husband or partner? Husband, yes. For your husband to give you a love jewel. How does he give you a love jewel?
[32:04]
B
I know. I mean, I asked him, please let me make my own engagement ring. We've been together for like 11, 12 years now. He was like, I've got this. I know you so well that I know what I'm gonna design, so leave it with me. And I was like, okay. I like the confidence.
[32:23]
A
Yes.
[32:23]
B
He got a beautiful diamond ring made for me and I love it and I wear it every day. But because I am obsessed with jewellery, I had to make myself an extra ring to wear next to it. And my wedding band. So.
[32:40]
A
And so what did the extra ring did that have?
[32:43]
B
That's actually just got diamonds all the way around?
[32:45]
A
Diamonds. Okay. Like an eternity.
[32:48]
B
Exactly.
[32:49]
A
But have you made one for him?
[32:51]
B
Yes, I made him a signet ring and he was actually one of my most difficult customers, I must admit. And it's a crane balancing on one leg because his dad always says to him, keep the balance. And on the side of the ring is lots of ones and zeros engraved, which is basically like code for what builds the Internet that says I love you. Because he works in tech. So it's a very modern, romantic message.
[33:19]
A
The thing that I think will what's so interesting, what you're doing, it's very discreet in the way that other people can't interpret it. Only the couple can interpret it.
[33:32]
B
That's where the magic lies is it's. You're right, it's so to one person. We made a little signet ring the other day with a radish on it. Just to one person that's just a radish, but to the customer, that's what the partner calls them. And it's very meaningful and deep and sweet. So it's kind of like these meaningless objects become meaningful and only the wearer knows it.
[33:57]
A
So you must love the bespoke work most of all.
[34:01]
B
I do. It really keeps me on my toes. It's kind of where we get to learn about our customer, which is so exciting and wonderful. And sometimes people will come with ideas and I'll go, oh, I don't know if that's going to be beautiful. And it comes out incredible. And I love it more than anything else.
[34:20]
A
Yeah, they're inspiring you all the time.
[34:22]
B
All the time. We had this one customer who was, I'm gonna say it's a self love ring. And he had a dream that he was a lion and was defeated or like attacked a crocodile. And he killed a crocodile. And it was his awakening. And he came to me with that story going, can you please put that on a ring? And I was like, wow, that's powerful.
[34:46]
A
And do people come to you for Valentine's Day?
[34:49]
B
They do. It's usually our pieces that we sell online, which we make. I mean, lots of our, lots of our designs are very, you know, tattooy and love hearts and skeletons. So it's kind of perfect for Valentine's Day.
[35:02]
A
Why are they tattooy?
[35:05]
B
I just. I'm obsessed with sailor tattoos. I don't have many. My dad's got quite a lot. He used to be a deep sea diver. So I think my fascination with that part of the sort of world I was always drawn to.
[35:18]
A
And you've got a few then?
[35:19]
B
I've got a few, but they're very small. On your arms I've got a little snake.
[35:25]
A
Oh, there a snake on your wrist.
[35:27]
B
Snake on my wrist. Little horseshoe, a little moon. The classic.
[35:31]
A
Okay, so very symbolic.
[35:33]
B
Yes, exactly. And those are things. There's a sort of symbols that I use in my designs all the time, but I just love the symbolism of tattoos, especially sailor tattoos.
[35:43]
A
So that would be easy if your husband was coming to you to get something made for you.
[35:51]
B
Exactly.
[35:53]
A
That's what he'd do.
[35:55]
B
Yes.
[35:56]
A
What else would you have on it for you?
[35:58]
B
Well. Oh, my God.
[35:59]
A
See, this is.
[36:00]
B
As soon as you start thinking about what you like, it's really hard. I just created a gorgeous big ring for myself and it's got a pig, a flying pig on each side inside a sweet little window with blue sky and fluffy clouds. And that is because my husband is the Chinese knee of the pig. And the colors are just delicious. It's like this pale pink and pale blue and it's very happy. And it says, you are my sunshine around the diamond. So that was the last persuasion I made myself.
[36:33]
A
And so you spend most of the day drawing, Designing and drawing?
[36:36]
B
Yeah, with my mum, which is lovely.
[36:39]
A
And the next collection will be called.
[36:42]
B
Once Upon a Time.
[36:44]
A
That's the fairy tale.
[36:45]
B
That's the fairy tale collection, which is very exciting. It's a sort of girly dream collection with diamond encrusted hand mirrors and blue ribbons and pink roses. Everything you can imagine in a fairy tale.
[36:59]
A
And the lovely thing is that when these things are found in years to come, either at auction or, you know, maybe even along the river, discarded or fallen off, it will tell a story. People will be able to try and fathom out this story by what you've created.
[37:18]
B
That would be incredible. I'd love someone to find an old CC Jewelry signet ring in the Thames maybe in sort of 200 years time. That would be incredible.
[37:26]
A
Try and decipher the meaning. Yes, the love story.
[37:30]
B
That will live on. Exactly. How romantic.
[37:33]
A
Well, happy Valentine's Day, CC Valentine's Day. Thank you so much. And many congratulations on these famous rings.
[37:42]
B
Thank you very much. It was wonderful to chat.
[37:49]
A
Thank you for listening for this and other episodes of if Jules Could Talk, please go to our website carolwilson.com do share it any way you can and we love to have a rating and a comment. The book of the podcast if Jules Could Talk will be out in paperback very soon, so keep your eyes out for that. I'm Arolwalton on Instagram and and to hear more about our sponsors, please go to www.leibish.com. if Jules could Talk with Carol Woolton is produced by Natasha Cowan Music and editing by Tim Thornton Graphics by Scott Bentley Illustration by Jordi laband. Sam.