Podcast
If You've Come This Far
Hosted by Shaun Emerson & Chris Lozier · EN
a podcast where Shaun and Chris simply aim to have authentic conversations with interesting people about what they do to make life more fulfilling and more impactful.
11episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
Ed Frauenheim...Reinventing Masculinity
1w ago01:05:05Tap to summarizeIn this episode of If You've Come This Far, Chris and Shaun sit down with Ed Frauenheim, an author, journalist, and advocate doing critical work around masculinity and men's health. Ed's career spans from technology journalism to studying organizational culture at Great Place to Work, but his current mission is deeply personal: helping men move past the isolated, stoic "cowboy" mentality to embrace emotional intelligence and community.Ed candidly shares his own wake-up calls, including a stress-induced heart attack in 2021 and a recent, grueling battle with appendix cancer that required a 10-hour surgery. Through these physical trials, and by reflecting on his upbringing with a father who struggled with an explosive temper, Ed illustrates why redefining toughness is literally a matter of life and death. It's a raw, pragmatic conversation about giving men the tools to ask for help, show vulnerability, and build authentic connections.Highlights:[04:15] The Birth of "F the Tough Guy": Ed shares the story of a ski lift operators' conference where a tragic string of suicides prompted a room full of stoic men to finally open up about mental health.[14:30] Making Peace with the Past: Ed discusses growing up in Buffalo with a father who had an explosive temper, and the healing power of acknowledging that pain while choosing forgiveness.[25:10] The Corporate Grind: A look back at Ed's career in tech journalism, the pressure to climb the corporate ladder, and realizing that the traditional metrics of success were leaving him unfulfilled.[41:00] Wake-Up Calls: Ed recounts his 2021 stress-induced heart attack and how ignoring his physical and mental limits caught up with him.[48:45] Surviving Cancer: Ed details his recent battle with appendix cancer, the 10-hour surgery he endured, and how leaning on his community for support ultimately saved him.Resources:Reinventing Masculinity by Ed Adams and Ed FrauenheimFrauenTimes (Ed's Substack)
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Celine Coggins...Investing in Youth Mental Health
3w ago01:07:33Tap to summarizeShaun and Chris connect with Celine Coggins, a lifelong educator, founder of Teach Plus, and the inaugural CEO of The Goodness Web. Celine shares her journey from growing up in a large Irish Catholic family in Massachusetts to navigating the rigorous worlds of Stanford and Harvard. The conversation explores her career transitions and her current mission with The Goodness Web: transforming youth mental health through collaborative, scalable venture philanthropy that moves past isolated efforts to fund systemic, nationwide solutions.We dive deep into:The Venture Philanthropy Model: Moving away from isolated, small-dollar grants toward pooled, million-dollar investments that can actually scale across schools and pediatric practices.The Gen X "Unlock": Why data shows that youth mental health is one of the most defining and deeply emotional issues of our generation's parents.The Teacher Retention Crisis: What public education can learn from the business world about rewarding talent and performance early in a career.The Reality of the "Anxious Generation": Navigating a landscape dominated by social media, hyper-connectivity, and the new frontiers of AI.Resources Mentioned:The Goodness Web (thegoodnessweb.org)Teach Plus (teachplus.org)Inseparable (inseparable.org)The Anxious Generation by Jonathan HaidtNAMI Chicago (namichicago.org)
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Matt Davison...More Empathy in the Mental Health Space
May 401:14:39Tap to summarizeChris and Shaun sit down with Matt Davison, the CEO of NAMI Chicago, to explore the intersection of law, advocacy, and radical empathy. Matt shares his transition from serving as a public defender and civil litigator to leading one of the nation's most prominent mental health advocacy organizations. He discusses the limitations of our current "triage" approach to mental health and why we must move "upstream" to address systemic issues before they become crises.Matt also opens up about his personal philosophy on "self-love" vs. "self-care," his concerns regarding the toxic impact of social media algorithms on youth, and the visceral moment on a Chicago Blue Line train that changed his perspective on systemic reform forever. This conversation is a pragmatic yet hopeful look at how we can build a more dignified system of care for all Chicagoans.Key Takeaways:The "Hammer and Nail" Fallacy: Why the criminal justice system is fundamentally ill-equipped to handle healthcare crises.The Blue Line Inflection Point: A powerful story about why individual advocacy isn't enough to fix a broken system.Upstream Intervention: The necessity of investing in community resources to prevent the "triage mode" of emergency rooms and jails.Social Media as a Public Health Crisis: Comparing modern algorithms to the "Big Tobacco" moment and their impact on youth body image.Self-Love vs. Self-Care: A therapist’s distinction between occasional treats and the daily practice of checking in with yourself.Resources Mentioned:NAMI Chicago: namichicago.org988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline: Dial 988 for immediate supportThanks to our sponsor, Mental. Mental is a wellness app built specifically for men, offering a sanctuary from "toxic positivity" and generic advice. It provides personalized, affordable, and science-backed support through real-life coaching designed to help you navigate life's messiest challenges. If you've been thinking about doing something for your mental health, visit https://app.getmental.com/subscribe to get started.If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify—it helps more people find these important conversations!
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Andy Rotherham...Policy Beyond Partisan Teams
Apr 2001:14:25Tap to summarizeIn this episode, Chris and Shaun sit down with Andy Rotherham, co-founder of Bellwether Education Partners and a veteran of the Clinton White House. Andy has spent over 30 years at the intersection of education policy and social impact, but he’s also a music enthusiast, a Red Sox fan, a Boston bar investor, a podcaster himself, and a man willing to run a 5k in a full Easter Bunny costume to surprise his daughter.We dive into the "no-fluff" reality of the American education system, discussing why school "averages" are often not helpful and how we can actually move the needle on equity. We also explore the "modern vice" landscape—from the gamification of sports betting to the pervasive influence of social media on youth.In this episode, we discuss:The McCaskill Update: A shout-out to previous guest John McCaskill on his new book, Dialing Your Leadership .The History of a "Planned Community": Growing up in Reston, Virginia, and how its "hippie experiment" origins shaped Andy’s worldview .The Trillion-Dollar Industry: Why education spending is both too much and not enough, and the desperate need for honest performance audits .The "Omni Cause": The quantitative shift in how gambling, weed, and social media are impacting the next generation .A Personal "Why": Andy’s commitment to the Pan-Mass Challenge and raising funds for Dana-Farber Cancer Institute in memory of his fathers .Speed Round: Andy’s life mantra, "What’s the worst that can happen?"Resources Mentioned:Bellwether Education PartnersEduwonk (Substack)Pan-Mass Challenge / Dana-FarberD.I.A.L. IN YOUR LEADERSHIP by John McCaskillThanks to our sponsor, Mental. Mental is a wellness app built specifically for men, offering a sanctuary from "toxic positivity" and generic advice. It provides personalized, affordable, and science-backed support through real-life coaching designed to help you navigate life's messiest challenges. If you've been thinking about doing something for your mental health, visit https://app.getmental.com/subscribe to get started.If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify—it helps more people find these important conversations!
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Katie Fogarty...Aging is Living
Apr 701:01:05Tap to summarizeChris and Shaun sit down with Katie Fogarty, a communications expert, "proud crusader" for women in midlife, and the host of the popular podcast A Certain Age. Katie discusses her journey from a religion major at Holy Cross and a teaching stint in a Japanese fishing village to becoming a leading voice in the "menopause zeitgeist." We explore the systemic gaps in women’s healthcare, the "beauty industrial complex," and why Katie believes that aging isn't about becoming invisible—it’s about becoming visible to the right people.Key Takeaways:The Menopause Zeitgeist: Why the conversation around menopause is finally hitting the mainstream and why "bikini medicine" (focusing only on the pelvis) is failing women’s brain, heart, and bone health.Aging Out Loud: Katie’s philosophy on resisting the "anti-aging" narrative and why she refuses to allow advertisers on her show who suggest that aging is a condition to be "fixed."Curiosity as a Superpower: How partners and husbands can support the women in their lives by educating themselves on perimenopause rather than waiting for their partner to explain it.The "Invisibility" Myth: A reframe on midlife—arguing that 50+ is not a time of fading away, but a time of intentional reinvention and newfound relevancy.Episode Highlights:[00:00] Intro: Shout out to our friend and previous guest Jason Ronai on his new role at the Basketball Museum of Illinois (plus a goat debate).[02:15] The Small World: We uncover multiple points of connection and discuss Katie's career journey.[14:30] Culturally Catholic: Katie discusses her upbringing, the "Spotlight" scandal, and how she and her husband navigated faith while raising three young adults.[23:00] The Birth of A Certain Age: The "aha moment" when a New York Times bestselling author and a Michelin-starred chef both admitted they were afraid to go public with being over 50.[28:15] The Medical Gap: The staggering statistics behind NIH funding for women's health and the importance of HRT as a foundation for mental health.[35:10] Advice for Men: How husbands can "pull their heads out of their butts" and become active participants in the conversation around hormonal health.[43:00] Voting with Your Wallet: Why Katie chooses to use reading glasses and color her hair while still rejecting the "anti-aging" industrial complex.[53:40] Parenting Truths: Advice for parents of 17-year-olds on finding what "lights you up" rather than just padding a resume.[58:20] The Speed Round: Sunblock regrets, the "this too shall pass" mantra, and what Katie hopes people say at her wake.Connect with Katie Fogarty:Podcast: A Certain AgeInstagram: @acertainagepodCompany: The Reboot Group
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Zach Gale...Me to We
Mar 2301:06:37Tap to summarizeChris and Shaun sit down with Zach Gale, an elementary special education teacher and the founder of Me to We. Zach discusses his journey from a hyper-competitive sports family to finding his purpose in supporting students with behavioral needs. We explore the transition from "Me" to "We," the importance of routine for mental health, and why Zach believes your story can one day become someone else’s survival guide.Key Takeaways:Behavior as Communication: A core pillar of Zach’s teaching philosophy—understanding that every action from a child (or adult) is an attempt to communicate an underlying need.The "Me to We" Shift: Inspired by Inky Johnson, Zach explains how attaching yourself to a purpose and mission makes you "dangerous" in the best way possible.The Savage Servant: Trading the idea of being a "nice guy" for being a "good man"—someone who stands their ground and holds core values while remaining a "warrior in a garden."The Power of Routine: Why waking up at 4:00 AM and investing in self-discipline is Zach's greatest form of self-love and mental health maintenance.Episode Highlights:[00:00] Intro: Celebrating Angela Saini and the Daniel Radcliffe connection.[05:30] The Gale Household: Growing up with a father who coached for 23 years and the "Golden Year" retirement video.[13:45] The Pivot to Special Ed: How "Bartlett Baseball Buddies" changed Zach's career path just days before college.[19:20] Men in Education: The disparity of male teachers at the elementary level and the importance of male role models in schools.[25:10] Perspective in the Classroom: Having tough conversations with veteran teachers and putting personal biases aside for the students.[33:00] The Origins of Me to We: Starting with Zoom workouts during COVID and evolving into a formalized LLC and men's group.[40:15] Family & Addiction: Zach’s middle brother’s journey to sobriety and his role in the men's group today.[48:40] Imposter Syndrome & Social Media: The struggle for authenticity in a society that casts judgment.[55:20] Curiosity Over Judgment: How Ted Lasso and "perspective taking" drive connection in Zach’s workshops.[01:02:00] The Best Sports Movie Debate: Miracle vs. Facing the Giants (and the notable absence of Hoosiers).Connect with Zach Gale:Organization: Me to WeLinkedIn: Zach GaleThanks to our sponsor, Mental. Mental is a wellness app built specifically for men, offering a sanctuary from "toxic positivity" and generic advice. It provides personalized, affordable, and science-backed support through real-life coaching designed to help you navigate life's messiest challenges. If you've been thinking about doing something for your mental health, visit https://app.getmental.com/subscribe to get started.If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify—it helps more people find these important conversations!
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Justin Cohen...Dads for All
Mar 1701:02:08Tap to summarizeIn this episode, we sit down with author, activist, and education policy expert Justin Cohen to explore the evolving role of fatherhood in the 21st century. Justin shares his personal journey from growing up in a household steeped in education advocacy to launching Dads for All, a movement designed to engage fathers in both community building and "bite-sized" civic action. We dive into the "low bar" of current fatherhood expectations, the lack of dedicated "dad spaces" in the advocacy world, and how to build a movement that prioritizes authentic connection over corporate metrics. Finally, Justin reflects on the importance of "staying in the pocket" when tackling long-term social struggles.Key Topics:The "Expert" Paradox: Why Shaun and Chris believe the most important conversations happen when "non-experts" stay curious and dive into deep issues.Education in the Water: Justin reflects on growing up with a special ed teacher mother and a global policy expert grandfather, and how their warnings shaped his career.The Dads for All Movement: Moving beyond the "nonprofit industrial complex" to build a movement that focuses on "belonging-adjacent activation."Bridging the Policy Gap: How to get dads involved in systemic issues like childcare affordability and paternity leave without making them feel like they’re joining a "mom space."Movement vs. Nonprofit: Justin explains why he pivoted away from raising money for a "job" to focus on building a sustainable base of engaged fathers.The 2030 Landscape: A look at how issues like AI-driven unemployment and the cost of childcare are the next frontiers for organized fatherhood.Notable Quotes:"Men in my generation are doing 3x the childcare their dads did... but my statistician friend calls that a 'low bar easily cleared.'""We’re not building a nonprofit; we’re building a movement. If this ends up looking like a nonprofit because that’s what I’m comfortable with, I will have failed.""Stay in the pocket. Once you get out of the pocket, you can’t get back in."Resources Mentioned:Dads for All: https://dadsforall.com/Justin’s Book on School Improvement: https://www.amazon.com/Change-Agents-Transforming-Schools-Ground/dp/1071875787Thanks to our sponsor, Mental. Mental is a wellness app built specifically for men, offering a sanctuary from "toxic positivity" and generic advice. It provides personalized, affordable, and science-backed support through real-life coaching designed to help you navigate life's messiest challenges. If you've been thinking about doing something for your mental health, visit https://app.getmental.com/subscribe to get started.If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify—it helps more people find these important conversations!
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Jonathan Mooney...Normal Sucks
Mar 201:06:00Tap to summarizeIn this episode, we sit down with author and activist Jonathan Mooney to explore the myth of "normalcy." Jonathan shares his personal journey navigating the education system with ADHD and dyslexia and discusses the powerful influence of the people who championed his differences. We also delve into the dark history of eugenics and its lingering impact on society's perception of disability. Finally, Jonathan introduces the Divergent Impact Fund, a new initiative aimed at supporting neurodivergent innovators.Key Topics:Redefining Normal: Why the concept of a "normal" person is a harmful abstraction and how we can move toward a more inclusive design for society.The Power of Support: Jonathan reflects on how his mother and a transformative third-grade teacher, Mr. R, helped him see his challenges as strengths.The Dark History of Eugenics: A look at the US Eugenics movement and its shocking influence on global policies, including those in Nazi Germany.The Divergent Impact Fund: Jonathan’s mission to support innovators solving real-world problems for the neurodivergent community.Parenting and Technology: Navigating the unique challenges of raising children in a hyper-connected, digital world.Notable Quotes:"The only normal people are people you don't know very well.""Our design principle for our world should be the reality of human difference, not the myth of the normal human."Resources Mentioned:Jonathan's website: https://www.jonathanmooney.com/Jonathan's books: Normal Sucks, The Short Bus, and Learning Outside the Lines.The Divergent Impact Fund: divergentimpactfund.comThanks to our sponsor, Mental. Mental is a wellness app built specifically for men, offering a sanctuary from "toxic positivity" and generic advice. It provides personalized, affordable, and science-backed support through real-life coaching designed to help you navigate life's messiest challenges. If you've been thinking about doing something for your mental health, visit https://app.getmental.com/subscribe to get started.
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Sean Harvey...Dismantling Hate with Compassion
Feb 2401:03:43Tap to summarizeChris and Shaun welcome Sean Harvey, an advisor, consultant, author, and ordained interfaith minister. Sean has dedicated his life to helping men in hyper-masculine systems--ranging from Wall Street to police departments and the military--reconnect with their humanity. The trio discusses Sean's journey growing up as a gay man in Southwest Ohio, his transition from a high-stakes Wall Street consultant to an interfaith minister, and how to find common ground with those on the opposite end of the ideological spectrum. Sean explains the "Masculinity Imprint" on our organizations and how the term "Warrior" can help men embrace compassion.Notable Quotes"Compassionate Warrior is an identity that you can claim. Warrior Compassion is an energy within that men, when they’re courageous enough, can access." — Sean Harvey"I am never going to tell you what you should be as a man. I’m never going to tell you that you need to embrace healthy masculinity...I’m going to talk about some of the realities on the journey." — Sean Harvey"When we humanize and give officers more capacity, it actually makes them stronger. It’s not about softening; it's about strengthening." — Sean HarveyResources MentionedSean’s Org and Book: Warrior Compassion: Unleashing the Healing Power of MenMenLiving Website: menliving.orgHere’s the bluegrass song detailing the devastating 1974 tornado that struck Xenia, Ohio: Oh! What a StormThanks to our sponsor, Mental. Mental is a wellness app built specifically for men, offering a sanctuary from "toxic positivity" and generic advice. It provides personalized, affordable, and science-backed support through real-life coaching designed to help you navigate life's messiest challenges. If you've been thinking about doing something for your mental health, visit https://app.getmental.com/subscribe to get started.
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Janice McCabe...Making, Keeping and Losing Friends
Feb 1101:00:57Tap to summarizeIn this episode, Shaun and Chris interview Janice McCabe, a sociologist from Dartmouth College and author of "Making, Keeping, and Losing Friends." They discuss making friends in college, the importance of propinquity and homophily, tight knitters, compartmentalizers, and samplers, friendship markets, the Dunbar number, her recommendation for students, parents and colleges, men and women as friends, the importance of intention in making friends and more.Get your copy of Janice's book hereGet Mental at 20% discount: http://getmental.com/IYCTF
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