Elon's Baby Mama Exposes All with Damning Leaked Texts, Stephen Miller Humiliated

Summary

Podcast Summary: IHIP News

Episode: Elon's Baby Mama Exposes All with Damning Leaked Texts, Stephen Miller Humiliated
Date: May 26, 2026
Hosts: Jennifer Welch & Angie “Pumps” Sullivan
Guest: Ashley St. Clair (former right-wing influencer, mother to Elon Musk’s child)

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Episode Overview

This episode features former right-wing media influencer Ashley St. Clair, notable for her past inside MAGA circles and her personal connection with Elon Musk. In a candid, often irreverent interview with host Jennifer Welch, St. Clair lays bare the psychological manipulation within the MAGA movement, the toxic influencer culture, Musk’s bizarre private behavior, leaked texts, and the hypocrisy and degeneracy pervading the right-wing ecosystem. The conversation is both a warning and an off-ramp for others entangled in similar circles, all delivered with sharp wit and emotional honesty.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ashley’s Transition from MAGA Insider to Whistleblower

• Early Involvement & Indoctrination
  • Joined Turning Point USA at 18, “so insecure and so young... I needed that validation and got it the worst means necessary and got caught up in it” (01:16).
  • The MAGA movement created social and financial dependency, isolating members from outside information: “Told not to trust my professors, not to trust anyone except Twitter and Fox News…changing, it's not just changing your mind…it's blowing up your entire life” (02:50).
• Gradual Awakening
  • Mistreatment of women, personal exposure to abuse and misogyny from MAGA power players (“members of Congress, like Madison Cawthorn…Benny Johnson…”) fueled doubts but leaving threatened her livelihood and social network (02:55–03:31).
• Refusal of Musk’s NDA
  • Turned down a $40M NDA from Elon Musk intended to silence her about their relationship:
    • “It was like, sell your soul, take away your voice…you'll be materially comfortable…your kids will be taken care of…And so that was right away. I said no.” (03:48–04:29).

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2. Inside Elon Musk’s World

• Details of Their Relationship
  • Child was conceived naturally, not via in vitro fertilization—Ashley avoids explicit details out of legal caution (07:02, 04:45).
  • “I don't know that it was ever exclusive...I never expected any sort of exclusivity from that individual.” (07:25)
  • Praised liberal New York family courts compared to Texas: “you might as well not have rights as a mother” fighting Musk in Texas (06:34).
• Drug Use & Erratic Behavior
  • “There were multiple instances where I was around him and he used drugs...He even texted me saying, you know, Wall Street Journal did this piece saying, I'm high all the time. I'm a little high” (05:11).
  • “He went to sleep listening to a podcast about Kublai Khan...he told me, ‘If we want a legion of kids before the apocalypse, we need to use surrogates’” (07:51–08:14).
  • Host’s alarm at Musk’s public drug impairment, especially while parenting (05:30).
• Leaked Texts and Wild Election Plans
  • Musk proposed outlandish election “plans” via text—claimed he had “over 10,000 lasers in space” and alluded to outlandish schemes (09:26).
    • “Lasers from space. And you said, finally a focus on the Jewish folk…he doubles down and quantifies the number of lasers...very comparable to the number of satellites” (09:28).
    • Regarding his involvement: “If they could do it, there would be more questions...Cambridge Analytica on methamphetamines” (11:02).

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3. MAGA Influencer Culture: Hypocrisy, Abuse, and Propaganda

• Performative Morality & Hypocrisy
  • “All of them are completely degenerate. They're drunk. They're cheating on their spouses, they're closet homosexuals…And then they will advocate for the rights of these people to be taken away while they're living that way themselves” (12:34).
  • MAGA influencers motivated by fame, money, and external validation—not ideological purity.
• Foreign Propaganda & Undisclosed Payments
  • “So much foreign money flowing into, particularly the right wing...one conservative media outlet…offered…seven figures to just run, like, pro Israel headlines” (13:45).
  • Lamented lack of disclosure laws: “If I pay you right now to say Donald Trump is awesome, you don't have to disclose that you were paid $100,000. There's nothing requiring that at all” (14:10).

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4. Deconstructing Personal and Group Psychology

• Leaving the Movement
  • Described the simultaneous shock of being ostracized for minor “offenses” while real abusers were protected (20:59).
  • Outlines the process of deprogramming: exploring black literature, reading philosophy and Middle Eastern history, critically re-engaging with the world (“read what you're not supposed to read”).
• Life After MAGA
  • On liberation: “I'm not content brained and looking at everything so cynically…Just able to be a real person, just exist, just read what I want…” (32:39).
  • “I am dressing different, but it’s because I don’t have to wear a MAGA costume anymore” (31:57).

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5. The Toxic Core—Racism, Sexism, and Projection

• Racism at the Movement's Heart
  • “How racist is the movement?” – “It's pretty racist” (34:14–34:17).
  • “People like Stephen Miller, like, you know, I've texts from Stephen Miller where he's like, we need white boy…White boy November…he's just a loser” (34:22–34:49).
  • Central driver: not ‘owning the libs’ but deep-seated hate and insecurity, particularly aimed at minorities, women, LGBTQ (35:13, 35:21).
• Misogyny and Misogynist Targeting
  • Details toxic treatment of women by MAGA institutions and individuals, double standards, and protection of actual abusers while discarding inconvenient women (20:59).

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6. Other Notable Segments

• Exclusive Insights
  • Attended Candace Owens’s wedding at Trump Winery, observed the MAGA influencer social scene’s performativity (21:45–22:08).
• Turning Point USA Exposé
  • Cites reporting that many chapters are “ghost chapters” for donor manipulation (22:23).
• MAGA’s Obsession with Gender and Identity
  • Heavy focus among the men: “They are consumed with trans issues and LGBTQ issues and gay sex, and then you start diving into it…trans porn is consumed the most in all of these bright red counties” (25:28–26:29).
  • “All of those people have identity issues…they think that they're men and they're actually pussies” (25:29).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the $40M NDA Offer from Musk:
  • “It was like, sell your soul, take away your voice...but you'll have $40 million. You'll be materially comfortable. Your kids will be taken care of. And so that was right away. I said, no.” — Ashley (04:22–04:29)
• On MAGA Culture:
  • “These people are really just failed theater kids. Like, they really wanted to be something. They were too ugly for Hollywood and not talented.” (12:34)
• On Musk’s Suggested ‘Election Plan’:
  • “Lasers from space…over 10,000 lasers in space…he doubles down and quantifies the number of lasers, which is very comparable to the number of satellites he has.” (09:26–09:47)
• On Hypocrisy:
  • “So many of these people that are, like, the influencer class, they really…just wanted to be famous…they get a show on Facebook, and they're making six figures a month…” (12:34)
• On the Pathology of Hate:
  • “What bonds them together is hate and that they weren't cool in high school. Like, these people are so deeply insecure.” (35:21)
• On Personal Transformation:
  • “I'm not asking for forgiveness. I'm not asking to be accepted. I'm asking people to understand, like, the pathology of this cult and talk about my experiences.” (38:24)
• On Hope for Change:
  • “…MAGA's fracturing. I really do believe that…You have a lot more power than you're recognizing in this moment to mobilize and do something.” (38:24–39:27)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:00–03:31: Ashley’s indoctrination and difficulty leaving MAGA
• 03:31–04:29: Elon Musk’s NDA offer and Ashley’s refusal
• 05:11–06:34: Drug use around Musk and context of their relationship
• 08:52–09:47: Leaked Musk texts re: “lasers from space”
• 12:34–14:31: Hypocrisy, foreign money, and influencer grift
• 17:27–21:38: MAGA’s antisemitism, misogyny, and Ashley’s personal cost
• 22:23–23:33: Turning Point USA and performative activism
• 23:42–26:30: The true character of MAGA men—substance abuse, performativity, obsession with sexuality
• 31:57–32:39: Liberation after leaving MAGA
• 34:14–34:49: Stephen Miller’s racist texts; “White boy November”
• 38:24–40:05: Optimism for change, call to action regarding tech oligarchs and AI

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Closing Thoughts

Ashley urges listeners not to dwell on her need for forgiveness, but to recognize the manipulative, cult-like nature of MAGA, and empathize with those seeking a way out. She emphasizes that transformation is possible, as evidenced by her own shift and that of others like co-host Angie. The hosts thank Ashley for her candor and bravery while warning about MAGA's tech alliances and the next right-wing iterations—with a strong call for vigilance and proactive resistance.

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This summary captures the main content, insight, and memorable moments of the episode in the irreverent, impassioned style of the hosts and guest, providing a rich, contextual recap for those who haven’t listened.

Transcript

[Ashley St. Clair]

You know, I have texts from Stephen Miller where he's like, we need white boy. Oh yeah.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Elon suggested to you in a text.

[Ashley St. Clair]

You want to see the text?

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

I do.

[Ashley St. Clair]

Wait, do we have my phone?

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Was the baby in vitro or old fashioned?

[Ashley St. Clair]

No, it was not in vitro.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

So you all had sex to conceive the baby?

[Ashley St. Clair]

It was not in vitro.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

All right. Joining me today in studio on IHIP News is Ashley St. Clair. She is a former woman right wing media influencer and I do not like to define women by their exes, but an important detail here is she has a child with Elon Musk. So I apologize for that because you are your own person on your own, but because he's had the keys to the government, it's an important detail. And because you were in close proximity to him, so you've been making the rounds now I keep saying, I'm like,

[Ashley St. Clair]

people need to wait to reach out because they're going to think I'm a plant. So I'm like, I swear they're just all reaching out at the same time.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

So I. You've been making the rounds on the left wing media ecosystem. Walk me through what changed in you from I know you were young when you fell prey to the right wing kind of cult stuff, but what clicked and what changed where you were like, this is bullshit.

[Ashley St. Clair]

Well, let me be clear too about, you know, I am doing left wing media but no right wing media has reached out because they know that I'm telling the truth about maga. Not a single one. They will talk about me, they will do all this, but they haven't reached out. And I've been on their shows before. There wasn any one moment. It was very cumulative that I saw things. I got involved very young. I was 18 years old on my college campus and I get involved with Turning Point and to be so insecure and so young. I was homeschooled in high school. So then I go to college. Oh, it always makes sense. It always clicks for people.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Yeah.

[Ashley St. Clair]

But then I go to college and I'm like, oh, I'm like, you know, people kind of like me and I'm in this, you know, nerdier side where I like the politics and I get involved with Turning Point. And it was within a year that then I'm driving Charlie Kirk to the airport and he's telling me I'm doing great work. And that to an insecure 18, 19 year old girl is really formative. And I, for whatever reason, like needed that validation and got it through the worst Means necessary and got caught up in it. But the issue with them is that then you get caught up and they, they tell you you don't need college. So then I drop out of college. Then I'm financially dependent on this cult. I. I'm cut off from information because everything is fake news. I'm told not to trust my professors, not to trust anyone except, you know, Twitter and Fox News, and you just get caught up. I explain it in the way that changing, it's not just changing your mind when you want to leave, it's blowing up your entire life because your social circle, your finances, everything is tied to it. So you. It's very hard to just leave when you get as deep as I did. So I saw things that were uncomfortable, particularly as it relates to women and the treatment of women within the right wing. I had experiences of my own, like with members of Congress, like Madison Cawthorn, while I was working at Republican companies. I had horrible experiences with people like Benny Johnson. I saw things that were uncomfortable, but I couldn't leave. And then eventually, skipping through a few chapters, I get an offer for $40 million for an NDA.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

And from whom?

[Ashley St. Clair]

From Milan.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Okay.

[Ashley St. Clair]

And so when you're NDA, like to

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

never say anything about him, ever.

[Ashley St. Clair]

Non disparagement into eternity.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Okay, 40 million.

[Ashley St. Clair]

40 million. So it was 15 million lumps.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

When was this?

[Ashley St. Clair]

This was December of 2024.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Okay.

[Ashley St. Clair]

And was 15 million lump. And then 100k a month for 20, 20 years. 21 years. So little over 40 million. And in that moment, you have to make a choice. You're like, do I want to be a good person? And there's like, very hyperbolically, people talk about, like selling your soul and Hollywood and politics, but they, they never talk about the moment that you're presented with that offer. And to me, like, that was that offer. It was like, sell your soul, take away your voice. No matter what I do, you won't be able to speak about it, but you'll have $40 million. You'll be materially comfortable. Your kids will be taken care of. And so that was right away.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

I said, no, let's get into the Elon Musk situation. And you don't have to answer this if you don't want to, but I'm just dying to know some details. Like girl to girl, was the baby in vitro or old fashioned?

[Ashley St. Clair]

No, it was not in vitro.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

So you all had sex to conceive the baby?

[Ashley St. Clair]

It was not in vitro artificial insemination? No. I think that would still be in vitro. I don't want to, you know, discuss the sex life because I know his. His attorneys will be, like, furiously writing, but.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Right, right.

[Ashley St. Clair]

Okay. They're very mad at me all the time.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Did you observe him using drugs?

[Ashley St. Clair]

Yes.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

And is this pretty much like a daily addiction? Would you.

[Ashley St. Clair]

I wasn't around him daily, but there were multiple instances where I was around him and he used drugs. And he even texted me saying, you know, Wall Street Journal did this piece saying, I'm high all the time. I'm a little high. So, yeah, I mean, I.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

For me, my husband's in recovery, and it's been a battle for him. And when I see Elon in the. The one video that just blows my mind is when he took his little kid X into the Oval, and he's just tripping. I mean, he's clipp clearly messed up. He has the black eye and the toddler with him. And I just think, why isn't. You know, why aren't people stepping in and getting this child safe?

[Ashley St. Clair]

What's messed up about that situation is, you know, and speaking about this objectively, the mother of Axe Claire Grimes has stated very publicly many times she does not want that child in the media, that she does not want him online. And so every in. In my opinion, every news outlet who continues to post photos of this child and videos is complicit and going against what this mother wants. She's pleade online many times. She's reached out to news outlets, and she can't have anything done.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

But doesn't it seem like that. I mean, the media sucks. I mean, for so many different reasons, that Elon would be the most accountable there? And why is she allowing the child to be around somebody else?

[Ashley St. Clair]

How do you hold the richest man in the world accountable when they have infinite resources and she has to fight him in a court in Texas where you might as well not have rights as a mother.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Yeah.

[Ashley St. Clair]

I'm thankful enough that I'm in New York. All of the liberal policies I made fun of, I'm now benefiting from, thank God. But it's. There are still very much, like, very archaic laws within this country that do not recognize how controlling these situations can be in family court.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

No. And you're right, because I'm from Oklahoma, and so I know that you can have judges that are very conservative in nature and very anti woman. And so I certainly understand that. And I've seen it happen multiple times before. So when you were with Elon, would you say that y' all were boyfriend, girlfriend?

[Ashley St. Clair]

I Don't know that it was ever exclusive, but, like, we saw each other and spoke very often, and does he. And I just. I knew, like, who he was. I wasn't like, oh, this is my new boyfriend. Like, we're exclusive. I never expected any sort of exclusivity from that individual.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Is he. It appears to me like he just wants to breed a lot. Like, he wants to have a ton of babies.

[Ashley St. Clair]

So the first time that I spent the night with him, he went to sleep listening to a podcast about Kublai Khan.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

What's that?

[Ashley St. Clair]

A relative of Genghis Khan.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Oh, my gosh.

[Ashley St. Clair]

So I don't know what his deal is. I really don't. Did not inquire. But I knew when I was pregnant. He told me, you know, we need to use surrogates if we want to have. If we want a legion of kids before the apocalypse, we need to use

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

surrogates before the apocalypse. So is he. I mean, is he just kind of nuts all the time? Like, psychologically, what's going on with this man?

[Ashley St. Clair]

I think a professional should evaluate him.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

So, I mean, obviously something is wrong, exacerbated by drug use and then unlimited funds. And that would be my opinion.

[Ashley St. Clair]

I can't hypothesize, but I know I don't talk about the apocalypse and ask people to use surrogates.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

It's weird. It's weird. Okay. And then Elon suggested to you in

[Ashley St. Clair]

a text that I'll offer you the same thing I did. Hasan, you want to see the text? I do. Wait, do we have my phone? I do have the tax that he

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

suggested that he had a new plan for the election.

[Ashley St. Clair]

Hopefully you'll respect me more than Hassan and not read my pick me isms.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

I will. I will.

[Ashley St. Clair]

Actually, here, let's. Let's just search lasers. Yeah. October 5th, 2024.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Oh, my God.

[Ashley St. Clair]

This is crazy, you guys.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

It says Elon Musk. Okay, this is not something on the chessboard, so they will be quite surprised. Lasers from space. And you said, finally a focus on the Jewish folk. Clearly throwing shade to Marjorie Taylor Greene. I have over 10,000 lasers in space.

[Ashley St. Clair]

So he doubles down and quantifies the number of lasers, which is very comparable to the number of satellites he has. But then what's very interesting is I say, you know, if this ends up being the reason, you know, Trump wins, and he puts 100. And then I said the hundred emoji. And I said, I would ask more, but I don't want to be deposed. And he says, wise. So, you know, there's all these people like, what did he do with the election? I don't know, Ask him.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

So here's where my stance was on it, Ashley. Like, to me, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So I want to believe that the election was rigged because it's painful to think that 77 million people voted for Donald Trump, who was criminal, misogynist, a racist, incompetent, all this stuff, right? Wears a full face of makeup, yet is constantly browbeating trans people.

[Ashley St. Clair]

They love gender affirming care at Mar a Lago.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Yeah, they do. They clearly love it. So I want to believe that. And then, and then there was a lot of statisticians. Like maybe a month after the election, I went down this rabbit hole and it was like these statisticians were saying, like, there's something wrong here, blah, blah. But I was like, okay, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. But it is, it is something interesting coming from him. I do think if they could do

[Ashley St. Clair]

it, they would be more questions like, especially the role of a social media platform. Like we had Cambridge Analytica with Facebook, and we can't ignore that someone who is the richest individual in the world, who's sending such text messages, owns what is essentially a behavioral inference model on X and now has XAI and is doing all of this stuff that in my opinion, is like Cambridge Analytica on methamphetamines. And so they're just. At the end of the day, there needs to be inquiry from people besides me. I can tell them what I know and what I've seen and what he's told me and what those engineers have told me, but nobody's asking any questions about it, which is incredibly strange and will be to the detriment of us and democracy, in my opinion.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

I completely agree. So let's talk about the layers of this cult. So I grew up and lived in Oklahoma City. So I understand the true believers, like the white Christian nationalists, whether they be country club Republicans that like racism and a tax break, or they be rural Oklahomans that really just want. They like Trump because he said, you know, they think he's a badass within the influencer class of maga. Like, clearly Elon Musk is not some Bible thumper. Clearly Donald Trump isn't a Bible thumper. Like, when you get to Charlie Kirk and Benny Johnson, are these guys Bible thumpers? Racist bigots? What's the psychology in the influencer class?

[Ashley St. Clair]

Some of them are, but they're also hypocritical because there's so much degeneracy going on within the MAGA circle and within these influencer circles that the people who are the biggest Christians in America first and all of this, all of them are completely degenerate. They're drunk. They're cheating on their spouses, they're closet homosexuals. Like, which, you know, more power to you. But they won't come out right. And then they will advocate for the rights of these people to be taken away while they're living that way themselves. And so there's a mode of hypocrisy within MAGA that so many of these people that are like, the influencer class, they really are failed theater kids. Like, they really wanted to be something. They wanted to be famous. They were too ugly for Hollywood and not talented. And so then they get a show on, like, Newsmax and a show on Facebook, and they're making six figures a month on Facebook. They're making insurmountable amounts of money off of this. And then getting foreign money, getting paid influence campaigns. Like, the amount of money.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

You brought that up, A lot of foreign money is being paid to MAGA influencers. Like other countries, Russia, which we'd heard about, Israel, Qatar.

[Ashley St. Clair]

Like, there is so much foreign money flowing into, particularly the right wing. Maybe it's flowing into the left, too. But I can only speak to the right. Right. It is so much. I'm aware of one conservative media outlet that was offered, I think it was seven figures to just run, like, pro Israel headlines and not even just sprinkle it in.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

So it's just like total propaganda takeover.

[Ashley St. Clair]

We will never know because of our current. My issue is with our current laws for disclosure. They don't have to disclose when they're paid for messaging at all because of our current laws and regulations. If I pay you right now to say Donald Trump is awesome, you don't have to disclose that you were paid $100,000 to do that. There's nothing requiring that at all.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

No. And I mean, we're our channel. I funded it when we first started it, completely independent. And I want to always keep it that way, because I don't. First of all, I want to be the boss, but I don't anybody telling me what I can and cannot say editorially as it pertains to, like, the people in the cabinet, like in Trump's cabinet. And Elon was kind of, you know, in the cabinet per se initially with Doge, these Doge guys. I have a theory, and you can. I know you may or may not be able to comment because of court and all of his lawyers and all of this. But my theory is that you're suing me again. That Musk wanted to get into all of these agencies because they were investigating him. And he said during the election of Kamala Wins, I'm probably going to jail.

[Ashley St. Clair]

He had texted me and I still have these messages. You know, he said, I can't be president, but I can help Trump win. There's about a half a dozen initiatives, investigations of significance into me and more smaller ones, you know, like, they're going to take me out. So that was very much, in my opinion, his motivation, self preservation.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

And then I think once you start getting. Once you start breaking as a person, I think then it just, you can break to everything. Like, I see it with Democratic politicians that say, oh, we care about trans rights, we care about anti black racism, we care about all of these things. And then what gets to Palestinians, they don't care about little kids getting killed by Israel and then they take money and then they break. They're broken.

[Ashley St. Clair]

I've just noticed that in my own life, too, because I'm Jewish, and so I have so many friends who are Zionist or pro Israel. And these people who I thought were like, otherwise empathetic people when it comes to the topic of Gaza and Palestine, I'm like, you sound like a monster. You sound so inhuman that I, like, I don't even know who I'm talking to right now. And that was another thing that, like, fractured a little bit because there was so much that I didn't know. And so when I took a break from the Internet, I was like, I'm going to read everything I wasn't supposed to. I'm going to. So. And I went back to school and one of the first things I did was I took a class on Hegel, Marx and race. And then I took another one on the making of the modern Middle east and how we really made this idea of what we view as the Middle east. And going into the history of Islam and all of this stuff that I had never consumed before, I was very sheltered from so much information. And my worldview was shaped on ignorance really well.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

I grew up with a lot of people that in Oklahoma that are told, this is your worldview. God created the earth in this many days. They're evangelical Christians, but they, they weren't allowed to critically think or open their minds. You're being Jewish. Did. Did the people in your early days and Turning Point, did they know this? And I also read online that at some point you went to dinner with Nick Fuentes, then I got canceled.

[Ashley St. Clair]

So I. And that was another thing that kind of kept me in that. Because then I have all these headline in a photo with Nick Fuentes. So they're. I'm Jewish. And they're like, she's a white nationalist now. I'm like, what is happening? I was 20 years old, 21, okay. And what had happened was I had come out against Alabama's recent abortion law. I was like, this is insane. They don't even have any exceptions for rape, incest, what have you.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

And you're in the MAGA world at this time.

[Ashley St. Clair]

And I came out, like, what I thought was a reasonable opinion about reproductive rights. And Nick Fontes had disagreed with me. And, you know, he was like, let's debate. I'm like, oh, okay. And then every. Everyone's like, no, don't debate him. He's, you know, xyz. And then I'm like, okay, I'm not debating you. And then he, you know, him and all his followers attacked me for being Jewish, being a woman. And it was like, I don't know if you've ever been attacked by his followers. It's a lot.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Not his, but I have Elon's.

[Ashley St. Clair]

And yeah, so. So it's like that on steroids, really? And I was like 20 years old, getting all. It was my first time getting, like, an influx of all this stuff. And then a few weeks later, someone was like, why don't you just talk to Nick? And I'm like, okay, like, sure, I will. So I talked to Nick. You know, we added dinner. I have a few drinks. So then they're like, oh, we're all going back here. I'm like, oh, okay, sure, why not? And then there's a photo taken and it's blasted all over. And then I'm like, all of a sudden a white nationalist. And I was like, but then that's my Google search results. So I can't really get a job at Pinterest after that or even Starbucks.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Don't you think I understand your age and how you get. Because I know people that were raised similarly to you, and I know how difficult it is and painful for them when they start critically thinking because they've been told Democrats are evil, Satan, all this crazy shit, Right? But don't you think it's fair that anybody that's associated with the MAGA world, that we could say they're white nationalists?

[Ashley St. Clair]

I think now, yes, there were things that I didn't see that they were a lot more covert about it. And I'm not Saying that to say, you know, I was duped, because I think people should stop saying they were duped by Trump. I think he's always been this way. But people weren't critically thinking about it enough. Like, if I critically think about it in retrospect, yes, those signs were there, right? But in the moment, it wasn't overt, at least in my opinion, because there was this push against people they deemed as white nationalists or anything like that. I mean, to even consider the fact that at one point, Charlie Kirk's organization was like, we're not white nationalists and we have to cancel the Jewish girl so that we're not deemed white nationalists is. It's weird to think about, given how that evolved and how those open opinions of people like Charlie evolved over time.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

And you said that Nick was like, okay, that you fell prey to attacks of misogyny and antisemitism from the group, that basically, if I think of MAGA as a big tent, even JD Vance won't condemn Nick Fuentes and the Heritage foundation won't condemn Nick Fuentes. And so I always say women that carry water for the patriarchy are going to be some of the first to drown. And I find it interesting. Like Kash Patel, I grew up in, you know, pretty white areas in Oklahoma City. I know exactly what's going to happen when he gets canned. I know all of the racism is going to come for him from within the support of the MAGA movement. So did that when they started calling, when the misogyny, when they targeted you? Was that part of the deconstruction?

[Ashley St. Clair]

It was one of those moments because simultaneously turning point. So they, like, sever ties with me, but they were still working with me. It was just like a public whatever. They were keeping people who were on camera talking about raping women. They were keeping people who were, you know, this was very public. They were keeping people who had allegations of sexual assault. And so to see that contrast, and I'm like, I'm canceled for being in the wrong photo with unsavory characters. And there's people who have allegations of abuse against women that are allowed to stay on here. And so that's one of those moments where I'm like, oh, they really just don't care.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Did you meet Erica Kirk?

[Ashley St. Clair]

No.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

You didn't?

[Ashley St. Clair]

No. I saw her briefly at Candace Owens wedding, but that was.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

You went to Candace Owens wedding?

[Ashley St. Clair]

It was at Candace Owens wedding.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Oh, my God. That's incredible. Where was it?

[Ashley St. Clair]

It was at one of the Trump. I think it's the Trump Winery in Virginia. It was like, actually a really beautiful venue. Sorry. It was a really beautiful wedding. Like, I gotta give her credit. She had really nice arrangements too.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

She's very pretty.

[Ashley St. Clair]

She is. But yeah, I was there and that was.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

And Erica was there.

[Ashley St. Clair]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

So I think the.

[Ashley St. Clair]

I think it was. She was with Charlie.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Yeah. I think the whole Turning Point thing is going to be over. I don't think she's going to be able to carry that because she's number one. I mean, clearly something's wrong with her objectively.

[Ashley St. Clair]

Did you see the UN Fuck America Kids?

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

No.

[Ashley St. Clair]

They just did this whole expose on how so many of the Turning Point chapters are fake. Like they're ghost chapters. They don't exist. So it looks like, at least from their reporting, that they're just boosting these numbers for donors to make it look like they have more of a student movement and operation than they do.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Wow. I mean, that wouldn't surprise me.

[Ashley St. Clair]

I think a whole documentary, I think

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

when she did the whole WWE funeral, I just, I think that that on the National St. Some people that were kind of like, I like Trump's tax breaks, they saw that and they're like, this is some weird shit. Yeah, like, it is really weird shit. So within the MAGA movement, I. I think a lot of these men, it centers around suppressed sexuality within the men. I think that you've got a lot of gay curious guys in maga, a lot of bi curious men, and then just like total sex addicts. And so you have mentioned before, I saw a clip, I can't remember whose podcast it that you. When you were in MAGA circles, everybody's fucking everybody, everybody's partying their ass off. And then you've gone to some Democratic parties and people are like, it's nine o', clock, we got to get home to the beach. Yes.

[Ashley St. Clair]

I was like, oh my God, you guys don't want one more drink? And they're like, no, we have to leave early. We have to go back to our kids.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Tell me about these MAGA men, broadly.

[Ashley St. Clair]

So when my first experience was, I go to the Young Women's leadership conference. I'm 20 years old. It's my first, like Turning Point conference where I'm like a real special guest.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Okay.

[Ashley St. Clair]

And I meet this guy, D.C. drano, Rogan O', Hanley, who's like 10 years my senior. He's like sweeping me off my feet, having me move in with him. I leave college, I leave my college town, D.C. dranos.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

I, like, drain the swamp.

[Ashley St. Clair]

Yes. I move into his bunk ass Tampa apartment. And he's like, this is how you. You know, here's what you write on the signs outside of the ICE detention center. He's telling me what to tweet. He's like, molding my little brain. He's like, here, sell T shirts. Sell maga T shir. Like, it was very much molded, but simultaneously, this guy is like, oh, I'm this Christian conservative. We need to take back America. And he's on kratom all the time. He's always drinking Kratom.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Kratom?

[Ashley St. Clair]

Yeah, kratom.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Or what? I can't remember what's pronounced. I know what you're talking about, though. The opiate thing.

[Ashley St. Clair]

Yes. He's always drinking kratom. He's always. You know, at least when I was with him, he always had his little weed pen. He was always on something and putting out this perception that he's just like, you know, this. This Christian godly man. He was pretending to be Jewish for a minute. Like, these people are a mess.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

These people are faking being Jewish.

[Ashley St. Clair]

They all do this. Anna Polina Luna did the same thing. There's an article saying that she was saying she was Jewish, and then it turns out her grandfather's a Nazi.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

What?

[Ashley St. Clair]

They were calling her the new George Santos.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Oh, my God.

[Ashley St. Clair]

I mean, they're just weird, Jen. Like, and. And that's what I want to say. Like, these people are just people, and they're very broken.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ashley St. Clair]

They're really broken. And that's why I find it incredible that they're so fixated on the trans issue. They're like, oh, you know, identity issues. All of those people have identity issues.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Totally.

[Ashley St. Clair]

They. They think that they're men and they're actually pussies. You're like, you have the biggest identity issues I've ever seen.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Well, I think the biggest argument for Democrats with the trans issue is to simply say, why are. Why is MAGA so obsessed with genitals? Why are they so obsessed with gay sex? Why? Because it's not like I don't wake up every day and go, oh, my God, I'm so straight. Let's talk about straight stuff. But get into these MAGA men. They are consumed with trans issues and LGBTQ issues and gay sex, and then you start diving into it. Like, if you look at. I call the speaker of the House little Moses, Mike Grinder Johnson is my name for him.

[Ashley St. Clair]

Benny Grindr Johnson. Benny Grinder Johnson.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Like, he told on himself with the gay cruise thing. And I'm Just like, of course he's a. Of course. Of course this is what this is. But the science backs this up, Ashley, because I found this study. Trans porn is consumed the most in all of these bright red counties.

[Ashley St. Clair]

Yes.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

And so it's just really, to me, it's obvious, but it's all projection.

[Ashley St. Clair]

But at the same time, there's the most gender affirming care happens at Mar a Lago. Okay, so they need to stop. They're spending far more than we are on our taxpayer dollars on trans youth or trans affirming. They need to stop. Okay, yeah, none of those people. They're all engaging in gender affirming care.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

I agree. Okay, let's talk through this. I sincerely can understand how somebody can be impressionable and fall into groups and then a deconstruction can ensue. The co host to my podcast, Angie Pumps, she, when I first met her, thought the earth was 6,000 years old, was a Republican, and now she is the biggest, you know, cheerleader for democracy and for human rights. So I have this kind of thing where I, I want, obviously, I want people to evolve. And as, as people kind of get deconstructed from this, you're going to get a lot of criticism.

[Ashley St. Clair]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Like, oh, okay, right. And as you deconstruct from this, I think you had written a book about the. It was easy to hate, like about trans.

[Ashley St. Clair]

A children's book about trans elephants are not birds.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

And so, so as you, I, as I see you now trying to atone and tell the country about this movement and how toxic and broken these people are, what message do you have to people that are young, like your demographic, that are young and have fallen prey to this, what they perceive as an in club, like the punching down in club. Was there always an itch somewhere in the back of your brain that something wasn't right and you just caved to the worst impulses?

[Ashley St. Clair]

Yeah, there were, there were moments where I was pushing back on it, especially in private because I worked a lot with Hyara sha clips at TikTok and I was like, you know, you can't.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

What's her deal?

[Ashley St. Clair]

She's, I, you know, she's just stupid. Like, she's genuinely like a cerebral speed bump. There's just not a whole lot going on up there. And so I give her a little bit of grace because she's just so dumb. I have more ire for the elected members who push her content and then make bills off of it. I think someone from your state, Oklahoma, you know, brought her up Brian Walters.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Yeah. I have more iron talk about gay curious. Ryan Walters is one of these, so.

[Ashley St. Clair]

And. But I do have regret because I was just mean. And what you need to understand is that so many of these people who are being nasty online and holding this moral high ground, they're just very insecure and broken.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Yeah.

[Ashley St. Clair]

Like, I was just. I had no reason to say the things that I did. It was just mean. It was ignorant. I didn't understand the things that I was saying. And that's kind of how this entire thing is structured. Like, the people who are on Fox News don't know what they're talking about. They would have me on Fox News and then ask me if I wanted to talk about Ukraine. Do I look like I know what's going on? Seriously, I don't. I hardly know why they're fighting. Okay, so these are just the talks.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Talking points that they want you to articulate.

[Ashley St. Clair]

Yes. And. But that's what they need to realize is that so many of these people are bastardizing your attention and they don't know what they're talking about, and they make an insurmountable amount of money off of your attention. Most of these big tech platforms optimize for user seconds. That is what they optimize for. And you should hold that in the back of your head every time you spend a second on there, because you are a data point. They want you on there for longer. And what are they doing to keep you on there longer?

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

What do you make of the Republicans that have power right now, who you hear? We all hear these leaks all the time. Elected officials, because I hold them to account. Like, the Democrats piss me off every bit as much as the Republicans do, quite honestly, because I'm just like, be an opposition party. This is a layup. But what do you make of, like, Moses, Mike Grinder Johnson, and the Senate Majority Leader, Thune, what do you make of them not standing up?

[Ashley St. Clair]

They're cowards. They're cowards. You need to sacrifice something if you're not sacrificing something. And guess what? Getting death threats on Twitter is not sacrificing something. Like, you need to make some material sacrifice to do what's right. The fact that none of these judges being appointed by Trump when they're asked can say, no, he can't have a third term. Really? Clearly, no, he did not win in 2020. This has gone too far. And what I can tell you, at least for the people, is that these individuals in power are much weaker than they like to appear. People who are thumping their chest. They're very weak individuals. People need to fight back. They need to fight back against what's happening, particularly as it relates to AI in these data centers and them gathering an amount of power that will be very difficult to take back.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Do when you think back to your former peers in the MAGA group and their perception of like liberal people or woke people, do you think that there is a jealousy that, like that, that subconsciously they see those people as the cool kids or they just see these people as like blue haired lesbians doing basket weaving?

[Ashley St. Clair]

I think it is a deep insecurity that they cannot live as themselves. You know, I got a comment the other day that was like, oh, she's even dressing more liberal. And then I was like, I am dressing different, but it's because I don't have to wear a MAGA costume anymore. I can go in my closet and say what do I want to wear today? Instead of like, what's not going to offend maga? What's going to be more conservative? Like what's going to seem professional?

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Like how old are you now?

[Ashley St. Clair]

27.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

27. And so as you wake up now and you're not in that tent, do you walk my listener through like the differences or, and, or liberation just personally that you feel not being a part of that group and now being yourself?

[Ashley St. Clair]

First of all, I'm not content brained and looking at everything so cynically. When you're in that, everything is like you're looking for the bad, you're looking for these crazy things. Like when I was in MAGA and I'm in New York City, I'm like, I'm gonna find, you know, I could not imagine what I would be doing like in Zo Runs New York if I was still maga. I would be out there every day. Can you believe Zo Ron didn't fix this? Like it just captures your entire being. Like everything you view is through this lens of MAGA and content. And now I'm just able to be a real person, like just exist, just read what I want, just watch what I want. Like I would feel guilty if I consumed like liberal media.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

So you would, you're saying you would basically have to wake up and assign blame to everything or, and, or praise. Like this is great because of Trump and this is bad because of the libs. And what do you think of that's, that's exactly.

[Ashley St. Clair]

And they say so much like, oh, it's not a victimhood mentality, it's not this, it's not that. But they live in the biggest victimhood mentality that they think the biggest issue is trans people, that they think it's going to take away from them so much if you recognize black literature. Reading my first slave narrative at 25, I was like, no wonder they don't want me reading this, because this is horrific. And so, like, I. And then consuming black literature, like reading Robinson, reading Du Bois, reading these. These things that I wasn't allowed to read because I was told it was anti white propaganda. And just read what you're not supposed to read, what they're telling you.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

How racist is the movement?

[Ashley St. Clair]

It's pretty racist.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

That's what I mean. I think it's just. Would you say that's at the epicenter of it and then also owning the

[Ashley St. Clair]

lips coming more and more at the epicenter of it. It wasn't so much before, but people like Stephen Miller, like, you know, I've texts from Stephen Miller where he's like, we need white boy. Oh, yeah, you have text from Stephen Miller. Used to text me every day during the election. I share this. I don't. I. Every time I've seen him, he's sitting down at the board with a drink, so don't know. He.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

What would he text you?

[Ashley St. Clair]

We need what he would ask for retweets during the election.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Would you say white boy.

[Ashley St. Clair]

White boy November? He's like, we need the white boys. This is going to be White boy November. Like, he's just a loser. And so, like, he's begging me for retweets. He's like, we need to get.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Wait, wait, hold on. So that guy is reaching out to you to reach. They're all so insecure. Yeah, Yeah, I knew that. I knew all of this.

[Ashley St. Clair]

That's why I don't care. I'm like, who am I and how

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

badly do they want to own the libs? Would you say that is the driving force, like, the ethos that, like, bonds them together? Owning the libs?

[Ashley St. Clair]

No, I think they're just hateful racists. No, I think what bonds them together is hate and that they weren't cool in high school. Like, they're really. These people are so deeply insecure.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Have you met Trump?

[Ashley St. Clair]

A few times. I was very much stink. I didn't get close enough to smell.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

What did the makeup look like in person?

[Ashley St. Clair]

Very bad. The spray tan? I think it's a spray tan issue. But, like, that's. You kind of have to get a spray tan to go to Mar a Lago. Like, as soon as I started Getting in the Mar A Lago crowd. They're like, oh, here's Laura Trump's spray tan girl. Like, here's get the Zimmerman dress. Get this. Like I was being put into this costume of MAGA and I think I look much better without a spray tan. But they all do the spray tans. Like they wear a costume and do they.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Do people think he's smart? Like where it was like, oh my God, Trump's incredible.

[Ashley St. Clair]

I mean, they view him more as like this caricature. They're like, oh, he's so awesome.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Oh my God, they think he's like a badass.

[Ashley St. Clair]

Can you believe he was at the McDonald's drive drive through? Like, they're just so dumb.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Yeah, that's what I think.

[Ashley St. Clair]

I don't think they actually think, if you ask any of them that Donald Trump is sitting there writing policy, like, they know he's not.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Are they true? So in the influencer class. Because there are true believers. I've been around them in Oklahoma, in the Bible Belt that believe this man is smart, that believe he's this incredible businessman that believe all this. Like that he's healthy, that he's a great athlete. There are people that believe.

[Ashley St. Clair]

Yeah, the base does.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

But within the influencer class, they would jump off that, that they're like, can

[Ashley St. Clair]

you believe he DJs mar a lago like this.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

What about J.D.

[Ashley St. Clair]

vance?

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Do they like J.D. vance?

[Ashley St. Clair]

It's kind of split on J.D. like, some people just think he's weird, which he is. And then other people are like, oh, wow, he could be the next 2028.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

I think.

[Ashley St. Clair]

Don't trust anyone who takes money from big tech.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Well, Yeah, I think J.D. vance is the country's top prostitute.

[Ashley St. Clair]

Yeah. He's got a bend over for Peter.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Peter Till. Yeah. I mean, it's just I always. If you look at J.D.

[Ashley St. Clair]

vance, Peter Till makes his boys work. Work.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

He does. I mean, he went out to Silicon Valley and he comes back thinner, dressed better, better haircut. I'm like, Peter Till queer eyed JD Vance. He queer eyed him. I've never seen anything like it. It's like he went. He got queer. Remember how he was chubby and kind of sloppy? And then he comes back from Peter Till's day. He got queer eyed.

[Ashley St. Clair]

He did, Yeah.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

I just think there's a lot of what I see, MAGA men, is that there. It's all about these homo social relationships. They're always in these male dominated bros. Yes. And it's like even the whole Joe Rogan and all the Bros fear. I'm like, everything is about always this homo social setting. And so, Ashley, do you have any closing thoughts for my listeners on I know you don't give a shit what people think about you, but your message is more to provide an off ramp to people in the aftermath of what this cult is. And what would you say to the people out there that have gotten dicked over by these policies?

[Ashley St. Clair]

There's a lot of people that are in my DMs that are on your team. There's a lot of wives of MAGA that are in my DMs right now. And so this is not just me. And what I want to make really clear too is I'm not asking for forgiveness. I'm not asking to be accepted. I'm asking people to understand like the pathology of this cult and talk about my experiences. And I'm not here to talk about like my big beautiful ideas for the DNC in 2028. You know, I'm just speaking about my experience. And I truly am optimistic that maga's fracturing. I really do believe that. And I think, at least for you guys on the last when you say, oh, you know, Marjorie Taylor Greene and Megyn Kelly and Tucker, they're seeing the writings on the wall, that's the only reason they're leaving. But stick with that. They're seeing the writing on the wall and that they're seeing where the wind blows. I think you guys also need to recognize where the wind is blowing and that you have a lot more power than you're recognizing in this moment to mobilize and do something.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Yeah, I think so too. I always say that Marjorie Taylor Greene, Tucker Carlson are first and foremost financial Darwinists. And Trump is going to die. He's not a spring chicken. And so they're already. Even though the cult might be slow to come. But I'm just very grateful that you're speaking out because the Tea Party incubated maga. MAGA is incubating something worse. And you were in that. And when you talk about the Groipers and all of the BRO sphere that I've spoken about it, it's really going to be worse than Maggie.

[Ashley St. Clair]

Well, and the marriage with the big tech oligarchs is really.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Oh my God, it makes me it. Yeah.

[Ashley St. Clair]

People have to fight back against. They're speaking about AI as it's an inevitability. And there was a, a really great creator. I wish I could remember her name. I actually think it was Francesca, but

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

she said Francesca Fiorentini maybe it was her or someone else really smart.

[Ashley St. Clair]

They were, you know, she said they they speak about AI inevitability in the same way they talk about, you know, the R word and assault, like rape. And that to me, people need to remember that like they are really it's not an inevitability because we get to choose what happens.

[Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)]

Ashley, thank you so much for coming by and for your bravery and speaking out getting to the other side. I do for any listeners who want to criticize Ashley, you get to but I just want to say personally that my beloved co host host that you love, she was up until like four years ago, I mean, totally, you know, in evangelical Christian circles. And so change can happen and you have to when people are atoning, it's worthy of a listen. So be nice. All right. Thank you, Ashley.