Loading summary
Transcript291 lines
- [00:00]
A
Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of angie, and one thing I've learned is that you buy a house, but you make it a home. Because with every fix, update and renovation, it becomes a little more your own. So you need all your jobs done well. For nearly 30 years, Angie has helped millions of homeowners hire skilled pros for the projects that matter, from plumbing to electrical roof repair to deck upgrades. So leave it to the pros who will get your jobs done well. Angie the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find a pro for your project@angie.com Smokey the bear.
- [00:34]
B
Then you know why Smokey tells you when he sees you passing through. Remember, please be careful. It's the least that you can do. After 80 years of learning his wildfire prevention tips, Smokey Bear lives within us all. Learn more@smokeybear.com and remember, only you can prevent wildfires. Brought to you by the USDA Forest Service, your state forester, and the AD Council. When it's time to scale your business, it's time for Shopify. Get everything you need to grow the way you want. Like all the way. Stack more sales with the best converting checkout on the planet. Track your cha chings from every channel right in one spot. And turn real time reporting into big time opportunities. Take your business to a whole new level. Switch to Shopify. Start your free trial today.
- [01:30]
C
You know, Marjorie Taylor Green has been going through some things.
- [01:32]
B
Yeah, she is.
- [01:33]
C
And it's pretty fascinating.
- [01:34]
B
She's gonna announce she's a lesbian soon. Go ahead. Come on.
- [01:45]
C
All right, listener. You know legendary journalist Kara Swisher from her podcast on with Kara Swisher and Pivot. Now she's hosting a new CNN original series investigating the promises and pitfalls of the longevity industry called Kara Swisher Wants to Live Forever, Premiering Saturday on April 11th at 9:00pm on CNN. Kara. Hi, listener. Kara and I have been on each other's podcast virtually.
- [02:13]
B
Yeah. Virtually never met in person.
- [02:14]
C
And then we started a text friendship that is robust and fun. And this is our first time to meet.
- [02:20]
B
I know. It's.
- [02:21]
C
It's real.
- [02:22]
B
It's weird. Yeah. You look exactly like I thought you would. You do too. Yeah. I'm tiny and you're tall. Yeah.
- [02:27]
C
Did you think I was tall?
- [02:28]
B
Of course. Yeah. Okay. But I write tall. You know, that's what someone. People meet me all the time and I'm pretty sure. And they are always like, I thought you were tall. And I'm like, I, I write tall. I. I podcast tall.
- [02:40]
C
You Give big girl energy.
- [02:42]
B
Girl energy.
- [02:42]
C
Yeah. Okay. Before we dive into your show on cnn, we have to dabble into a little bit of this crazy political week, obviously. Hello.
- [02:53]
B
What do you think I'm here for?
- [02:54]
C
Yeah, exactly. This is what. You know, Marjorie Taylor Greene has been going through some things.
- [02:59]
B
Yeah, she is.
- [02:59]
C
And it's pretty fascinating.
- [03:00]
B
She's gonna announce she's a lesbian soon. Go ahead. Come on. You're right.
- [03:07]
C
That's the next. That's where we're headed story arc.
- [03:09]
B
Yeah.
- [03:10]
C
Why didn't I see that? I don't know if she's gonna look
- [03:12]
B
over at you and say, I'm in love. But anyway, we'll see.
- [03:14]
C
Oh, my gosh. Okay, so she. She recently said this this week to her supporters.
- [03:21]
B
Play the clip.
- [03:22]
D
I mean, all the things that happened, we supported him through thick and thin, and that has glued people. Glued people to think they have to support him through anything and everything. And that's wrong. That's absolutely wrong. The American people have to open their eyes and deal with reality and deal with truth. And the truth is, look, you may have supported President TRUMP For 10 years like I did, like you have, but this is not the same man. This is not the same man that we supported. And he is not okay.
- [03:55]
B
This is the same man. Just. Marjorie, you just found out you had a bad boyfriend. Like that. You know that realization, like, hey, you got all of us knew what the situation was.
- [04:05]
C
Do you think she's framing it like this because she's offering people an off ramp that maybe she has been deprogrammed from the cult a little bit.
- [04:14]
B
Although every now and then she starts to back ask her about trans people. Ask her, like, let me tell you one of the things it's great to have. Megyn Kelly was saying something sensible the other day, and then she veers into something weird. That's the problem is when you start to poke them, they're back to their old shape, essentially. But in this case, they had, in a cult like way, they believed in something and then they pulled out. And a lot of her stuff, especially Marjorie Jo Greene, was extremely online, very much like a cult thing. She is extremely online and she's very good at it. But she got pulled into what is essentially a cult, digital cult, and didn't plummet very far because she liked the feeling of being in that group. And then when it became clear what they actually were up to, which they had never had her interests at heart, she's a true believer. That was like, wait a second. They don't believe what they're saying, which should have been apparent to her forever. She's a smart person. That's obvious.
- [05:18]
C
Right. Her intelligence surprised me.
- [05:21]
B
Oh, no.
- [05:22]
C
Because when she first came on the scene, the Jewish space lady and all of that stuff, and then her evolution has kind of surprised me. But I'm with you on this. When I hear a 30 second clip of Tucker or a 60 second clip of Candace Owens, even the most famous crazy person in America, you're kind of like, oh, okay, they're spitting facts for a second. But then you have to remember, like, in the last two months, Tucker Carlson was calling somebody on his podcast, why can't I say the word F A, G, G, O, T. Yeah, says it like 10 times in a row. Marjorie Taylor Greene will make this passionate plea online for Palestinian, but outside her office, there's a sign that says there are only two genders.
- [06:03]
B
Right? Right. Well, people contain multitudes. Right. I mean, that's Walt Whitman. But one of the things that's interesting about someone like Candace Owen and I had her husband at an event because he ended up running one of the social media networks that had gotten shut down after January 6th. And then he was running it for a little bit. Interesting person from Britain. Very much involved in the right wing movement in Britain and couldn't be lovelier in person. I have to say. Hey, Kara. Hey, girl. It was like that kind of thing. And I was like, it's so discon. You know, some of them are quite different offline as they are online. Right. And that's the problem. You know, I used to spend some time with Megyn Kelly. I think she's actually changed, actually. Right, Actually. And people do that. That happens. But couldn't be, you know, and then of course she would say, thing about, you know, Santa is, is white. Like, and you'd be like, what? Like, right. Santa doesn't exist, girl. Like, that's the thing. And so, I mean, sorry, kids, but it's the truth. And so it's a weird thing because a lot of it is performative, but some of them have then become the things they're performing. Like, I truly think Alex Jones has some issues, mentally speaking. Right. He's moved into some weird conspiracy theory. I think Tucker Carlson has changed. If you talk to people who knew him in the before times, they liked him, he was reasonable, he was interesting to debate. And a lot of it was with the bow tie, was performative. Same thing with Megan. And the question is, was someone like Marjorie Taylor Greene really quite culty and then suddenly had an Awakening and changed in a different way. And I fully, possibly in 10 years, she'll be like, I can't believe I said these things about gay people. I can't believe.
- [07:45]
C
Well, especially at her coming out episode on with Paris,
- [07:51]
B
who knows? I think one of the things that we have to allow people to do, and I know the left does not like this, is allow them to change. We have to have uncomfortable allies. And then when they push on the other things, that's when you push back. And I think it's really hard in this environment because people are so angry about the things the Trump administration says and justifiably so. Um, it's not going to, you know, Scott Galloway, my partner, always says, you, you want to be effective or do you want to be right? Like, which one do you. Sometimes you have to compromise, especially on things that are important. And I often talk to, you know, anti gay people if there's some way to do something else. And then we get to that later. Like right now, we can't be constantly at odds with each other or else we'd never get anything done.
- [08:38]
C
I think that you're really onto something about allowing people to politically evolve. I've evolved a lot in the last 15, 18 months. I was a garden variety MSNBC viewer and didn't really think beyond, though, the way those politics were presented to me. And in the backdrop of living in Oklahoma, my friends thought I was a communist. Right. I just, I thought I was super, super, super progressive. And then we started the podcast and some of our listeners called me a centrist.
- [09:08]
B
Right.
- [09:09]
C
I was mortified.
- [09:10]
B
Right, right.
- [09:11]
C
Me, a centrist. But I started really diving into these things and I've evolved. And my co host pumps, she was a right wing evangelical Christian and now she's the biggest ally to marginalized communities on the planet. So I do think we need to allow political evolution. It's hard all sorts of ways.
- [09:32]
B
There's a lot of hurt, There's a lot of hurt, there's a lot of damage, and there's no question about that. But there's no way to move forward if you assume everyone is the enemy. And I don't mean to say let them get away with things. Trust me, that's not what I'm saying. It's that, you know, I think you have to realize people are complicated and allow that. Like often sometimes I'll say, oh, I wish I had been in the military. And I get a lot, oh, what? You can't. Not you. And I'm like, no, my dad was in the military. I have a lot of respect for people in the military. Well, that's like, that's right wing talking points. I was like, what are you talking about? Like, my dad came from nothing. He paid for medical school. It was good for him. I wish I had the opportunity, but I was gay and I couldn't be like, you have to let you know. Or sometimes I talk about business. They're like, all you care about is money. I'm like, well, I kind of like being an entrepreneur. So you have to sort of like, you don't have, like. It's very easy to play into this. And it also surprises people on the right sometimes. You know, they're like, oh, San Francisco lesbian. I'm like, just a second. There's a lot of different things we can have different opinions on, and that's where we have to go as a country, I think, to be effective and get along. And I think one of the things that happens in this environment, especially because of online, it creates a binary, like absolute binary, when it's much more confusing than that for most people if they admit it. But you feel like you have to get onto a team. I was never a team player, so it's fine by me. But that's the problem.
- [10:56]
C
I think it's safe to say you probably are a team player for the L's, the L's, lgbtq.
- [11:01]
B
I am, of course, but I don't like everything about it. Sometimes I'm like, come on, let's try to figure out. Let's let people have their space. There should be a line where I'm going to get married, so get the fuck out of my way. Right. Versus at one time, I was in Silicon Valley. I couldn't believe this happened. And someone. It was during the gay marriage thing, right? And I believe. I'm a believer in the 14th Amendment. I'm like, it says equal rights under the law. It's pretty freaking clear. And I know they're trying to wreck the 14th Amendment. It's a great amendment. It's my favorite amendment. You'd think the first was. But the 14th is. And so some venture capitalists, oh, white guy, typical during the thing. And he goes, you know, I like a lesbian. Like, did that joke, like lesbians, like, as if we're in some porn movie. And he goes, but gay male sex, I don't like it. And so I was sitting there and no one knew what to say. And I go, well, if you don't like gay male sex, you should stop having it. And he goes, what And I said, you just said, you don't like gay male sex. Why are you doing it? And he goes, I'm not having gay male sex. I said, then why did you say you liked it? Like, I don't understand. And I said, are you lying about having gay male sex, or do you not like. Or do you have gay male sex and you don't like it? Because if you don't like it, I said, this zucchini on this plate. I don't like it. I'm not eating it.
- [12:17]
C
Yeah.
- [12:18]
B
And therefore, I don't eat it. I said, stop having gay male sex. And he was like this. And I. And then I looked at him, I said, don't you ever say that again about a group of people. Thank you. And I embarrassed him. And it was done. And it was great.
- [12:30]
C
So that is a masterclass.
- [12:31]
B
It was. I mean, that is one of my greatest moments.
- [12:33]
C
Okay, so you're very familiar with Silicon Valley, and Ro Khanna has been. Been really, really making moves.
- [12:41]
B
He has known him a long time.
- [12:43]
C
Bipartisanship with Thomas Massie. Those two Ram.
- [12:48]
B
Bernie Land for a long time. Yeah, yeah.
- [12:50]
C
Those two ramroded the release of these Epstein files.
- [12:55]
B
And now they're getting an assist from Melania.
- [12:57]
C
Oh, my God.
- [12:58]
B
Who knows?
- [13:00]
C
Because her husband is unifier.
- [13:03]
B
Right?
- [13:03]
C
Unifier. Okay, so, Ro Khanna, pop this up. Ro Khanna tweeted about Trump and Marjorie Taylor Greene, future incoming L of the LGBTQ pluses. Ro, I agree with you. We need a strong populist coalition of the right and left that can come together on the most important issues of future generations. No easy task, blah, blah, blah. I think a lot of us, you know, I'm a split screen. I both want to allow for evolution,
- [13:37]
B
but, God, I don't trust that bitch. No, right. That's correct.
- [13:40]
C
Do you know what I mean? Like, we have this civilized conversation.
- [13:44]
B
They should turn at any moment.
- [13:45]
C
Yes.
- [13:45]
B
Done it. Right. So that's the way of life. Right. You have to, you know, I always say trust but verify, essentially, and then just wait and see and make sure it doesn't have to be. You know, this country has been built on. It really has been built on bipartisanship in a lot of ways, because there's so many conflicting feelings among indifferent people. It's always been moving forward, if you really think about it. Not as fast as some people want and way too fast for others. But, you know, at some point, if you couldn't, like one of the people that I think would surprise you that some on the right like, very Much is aoc, right? Of all the. I talk to a lot of the more conservative ones, and they're like, she's a good person to work with. Right. Even if they're gonna go later and say this crazy New York Communist, they'll do that too. But I have to say, if someone who gets kudos for working across the aisle, she's one of them. And so that, to me, is sort of the template. You work where you can. You fight where you have to kind of stuff. And that's really hard for us, given that Trump puts us all in this tribal binary extremely online, where it's all about dunking. It's never. Cause you can't have an intelligent thought in a twee. You just can't do it. You can't do it. And so then it's all about action and reaction, action and reaction. And it appeals to the base elements which Trump understands at a very basic level.
- [15:10]
C
All right, what do you make of Ro Khanna kind of being the leader of the progressive flank of the republic of the Democratic Party right now?
- [15:17]
B
Sort of. He can go and, you know, he and I had a. It's interesting because he's sort of now sort of billionaire taxing thing, but at one point, he was quite up. Up in their grill together, and he was meeting with Elon and a bunch of them, and I said, you know, Ro, let me send you some stuff so you understand who these people are. This was years ago, and whether it was David Sacks or others, he was taking their money. I get it. I'm not, you know, I'm not that, you know, I understand politics. And they need money. And he's like, well, I feel like it's important to meet them. And then he went. He went against them, and the minute he went against them, they attacked him relentlessly. And he goes, it looks like you were right about them. I'm like, it's just pay attention, Ro like kind of stuff. So one of the things about him, of course, is he too ambitious. That's gonna be the take on him. I think that's the one you see the most. I don't mind it. I think he's been out there. I think he's been out there and doing things. I really like him. And it's really. He's a really interesting guy. He's highly intelligent. He obviously likes attention. Everyone's like, oh, he loves attention. I'm like, no shit, Sherlock. So do you. I'm sorry, you all do kind of thing, right? But I like, he's really he's kind of presents a sort of different. I know you and Gavin have beefs and stuff like that, but he got mad at that question when I asked. Oh, he did. Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [16:33]
C
So listener. She did a sit down with Gavin. Yeah. And she always will bring in a question.
- [16:39]
B
Yeah.
- [16:39]
C
Via video. And she had me ask a question. And I think. What was my question? I forgot.
- [16:44]
B
It was about things he said like his, you know, his. I think being not. Not sincere. I think.
- [16:52]
C
Yeah, I think it was. We need to get back to normal.
- [16:55]
B
Right.
- [16:55]
C
What do you think the Democratic Party needs to get back to normal and in Oklahoma dress or people use the word traditional.
- [17:04]
B
Right.
- [17:05]
C
It's really dangerous in red super majorities because that is coded language for Jennifer and Karen need to be in the kitchen.
- [17:13]
B
Right.
- [17:13]
C
No lesbian wife for you.
- [17:15]
B
Right.
- [17:15]
C
It's very dangerous statement to make. And you have the luxury of making those statements in California.
- [17:22]
B
Right, exactly.
- [17:23]
C
In New York, you don't have to fight for normal. You walk out, you breathe liberal air
- [17:27]
B
and it's what is normal?
- [17:28]
C
Tax a millionaire. Everybody accepts gay people. Everybody accepts that women can have careers. It's not that way in Bible Belt states.
- [17:34]
B
Exactly. And so I think he was really. He. I'll tell you, he got under his skin. He got skin. I would say hair up his ass is the way I would describe it. He was like really mad about it. And so I think I kind of liked it because what made him uncomfortable is interesting to me. Like because I. I think deep down he understands that. And by the way, let me just say Gavin Newsom was very brave at a time when others weren't. He absolutely did gay marriage and it absolutely hurt his career and it absolutely wasn't a good choice at the time. And many people. At one point, I was with a very famous political figure and they were upset cause Gavin had messed up. Like he'd been too much gay marriage. And they said to me, America's not ready for gay marriage. And I said, well, it's called leadership. Which he showed. And you don't. Yeah. Way. He's a complex figure and that's why I think he's interesting. He lets it out.
- [18:26]
C
And I do think for any politician, he clearly wants to be president. He needs to keep going in spaces during this primary part and you get dirtied up.
- [18:35]
B
You've.
- [18:36]
C
You realize, oh wait, this, this is not playing. And I think when Democrats can quit crowdsourcing and quit polling and quit focus grouping and just be on what they are. Like Roe came to New York and he sat down with me for an hour. And I said, so I think we're in talk.
- [18:54]
B
He's not scared of you.
- [18:56]
C
Not at all. I said, I think we're in talk about his. It doesn't matter. Ask me anything you want to.
- [19:00]
B
Yeah.
- [19:00]
C
And he sat down. There's no request to edit anything out because he is genuinely standing on business. He had a political evolution about the dangers of these oligarchs. Which brings me. I want to dive into, say, when
- [19:13]
B
you talk about stuff like that, a little bit goes to the voters. Like, let's stop relying on them as the answer. That's the problem is we give far too much power to tech oligarchs. We give far too much power to politicians. Let's stop judging them, maybe start judging ourselves. In some ways, it's the voters. If you react like that when they act like real people, they're gonna stop acting like real people. Right. It's sort of like insulting your friends. Don't say that. Don't do that. Or you have kids. You know that. Right. You know, you have to let people be who they are. And I think we're very. We can be very censorious on everybody and by the right is doing it like crazy right now. You have to sort of toe the line or else kind of stuff. And then you have a Thom Tillis. I just interviewed him, who is. You know, they're calling him too late Tom. But I'm like, I don't care. He's the one that did the kill shot of Kristi Noem. So. And everyone's like, yeah, but before he voted, I was like, I don't care. Right? Like, yes, what do you want me to say? And he had a really good line, which I thought was. I said, well, now you're able to speak your mind. And I think you all along thought that, of course he did. He couldn't, because. And he goes, you know the definition of martyr? And I said, no, tell me. And he goes, they're dead. And politically, if I had done that, I would have been dead earlier. And now I'm in a position, you know, it was really interesting. And I don't mind. I get it. Right?
- [20:38]
C
No, but I think you have a good point that we need to, as an electorate, focus on what we're demanding of politicians, dismiss the ones that crowdsource the pick me politicians and those that stand on business. Like, I disagree fundamentally, politically with Thomas Massie, but I respect him.
- [20:57]
B
Right.
- [20:57]
C
Because he has stood up for these victims, these survivors.
- [21:01]
B
Right?
- [21:02]
C
Yes. And so I have Respect for that.
- [21:04]
B
Okay.
- [21:04]
C
I want to dive into the oligarchs
- [21:07]
B
because this is your area of expertise.
- [21:09]
C
I interviewed none.
- [21:11]
B
Okay.
- [21:12]
C
I interviewed. I interviewed Ronan.
- [21:14]
B
Love to see you with Elon Musk.
- [21:16]
C
Oh, my gosh. He's mean. Tweeted about me as he. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [21:21]
B
He'd also like you because you're pretty. Like, I don't know what to do here.
- [21:27]
C
Okay. So, Ro, I interviewed Ron and Farrow yesterday.
- [21:29]
B
I'm just saying you look like a lot of his ex wives, just so you know. I do. You do. Is that an insult? No. Okay. They're very beautiful. Okay, thank you.
- [21:36]
C
All right. I interviewed Ronan Farrow.
- [21:38]
B
Yesterday's New Yorker's great. Loved.
- [21:41]
C
And a lot of people referred to Sam Altman as a sociopath. Yes, I saw that in his reporting. What's your take on that?
- [21:52]
B
I think that's a little strong. You know, I think what's interesting is where does he rank on the. Like, is he less or more so than Elon? It's sort of hard. Like, which do you pick? Right. Right. I don't think he's as bad as Elon by a long stretch. Right. At the same time, he's. You know, I met him when he was 19, Sam, and I like Sam. And at the same time, he's also manipulative. Again, it's this, like. But so is Mark Zuckerberg, so is Elon Musk. In spades. Along with some mental illness happening, you know, or whatever's going on, and real damage to people, actually, through Doge and stuff like that. And so I have a little. I guess I'm more jaded in some fashion. You know, at one point when I was reading, I thought Ronan did a great job, but, like, I can't believe he lied to me. I'm like, really? You can't believe it? What? Like, he's like, I can believe it. It's sort of like when people say, I can't believe what Trump tweeted. I'm like, really? Yeah.
- [22:44]
C
Marjorie saying, I can't believe he's changed.
- [22:46]
B
I can't believe he said that about, you know, killing people. I'm like, I don't know. When he was doing the whole thing with making fun of the disabled reporter, I was like, let's grab him by the person. Yeah, whatever. Yeah.
- [22:58]
C
What tipped you off?
- [22:59]
B
Who has any effect? If he said something sweet, I'd be shocked. That's where I'd be shocked. So, you know, it was a really good piece. And I think the question is, I Think there's a broader question with Sam. Instead of deciding which one of them is worse. Right. To me, that's pointless. Why are all these troubled people in charge of everything? That's what it is. It's like, maybe you'll get a good one. Like, Mark Cuban is great. I love Mark Cuban.
- [23:22]
C
He's great.
- [23:23]
B
But he wasn't to start with, I can tell you that. He and I used to beef all the time. He was arrogant, he's evolved. That's great. But I still don't want Mark Cuban in charge until he's elected or until something else. So why do we give all the power to these. Why do we have an idolatry of innovators that they get to decide everything? Because they are troubled. Some of them are broken, but they certainly are homogeneous. So why are we giving them all the power? And I don't care if it's Sam Alton. Yeah, he lies. Guess what? He said it was gonna be about safety. Oh, no, it wasn't. Because it was about money. Oh my God, you're kidding me. Like that kind of thing. Like, I never thought he was Jesus.
- [23:58]
A
Right.
- [23:58]
B
So I'm not sure why we expect that of these people. They're in it for the money.
- [24:03]
C
What do you make of. I noticed there's a through line in all of these men, whether it's Zuckerberg, Altman, Musk.
- [24:10]
B
Broken, broken, broken.
- [24:11]
C
But they also seem to be. They project that they're so oppressed, like just.
- [24:18]
B
Oh, the victimization.
- [24:19]
C
It's unbelievable to think about having. Welcome to my bank account. That could choke a bull.
- [24:25]
B
Yes.
- [24:25]
C
And then you just sit around in the fetal position online.
- [24:28]
B
Yes, exactly.
- [24:29]
C
Acting like the world is stacked.
- [24:31]
B
You like cheese with that kitty babies. Yes.
- [24:33]
C
We call in the south kitty babies. I have never
- [24:39]
B
quiver me.
- [24:40]
C
I grew up in, you know, the United States. Capitalism was the heartbeat of it.
- [24:45]
B
And I was good capitalist and I
- [24:47]
C
like to make money. And I've never seen an advertisement for against the accumulation of wealth as much as this fleet.
- [24:54]
B
I know of billionaires. I agree. They're whiny babies. I call them adult toddlers many years ago. And they got offended by that. I've had so many of them. You're so mean to me. I was like, get a dog. Like, sack up, boys or get back on the porch. I was like, I don't know what to tell you, but we're in the big leagues here. Yeah. You can take it from me. Like, it's really. And like, what do you care what I think of you? You have Like a million billion dollars. I know. Well, the thing is, why have you money unless you can say you. Right? They don't.
- [25:22]
C
They make participation trophies for him.
- [25:24]
B
I know. And so what's really sad to me is. And they're all like this, like there's some that aren't like Cuban, like I can throw down with him and then the next day we can have lunch.
- [25:33]
C
It's like, is he self deprecating, Laugh
- [25:36]
B
at himself, but he can take it. Like, if I disagree with him somehow, he's not a wilting flower, he's not made of paper mache. And one of the things that is characteristic is they're all like, you know, there's a great series, the Audacity coming out. I just interviewed the cast of it. It's great. It's on amc. Totally watch it. But there's a class, there's. There's a character played by Zach Gallic Vanakis. It's about Silicon Valley people.
- [26:00]
C
It'll teach you a lot.
- [26:01]
B
It's really, it's. It's sort of the next version of the original Silicon Valley, which I helped advise on, which they were all lovely and adorable in that. Here they're like the way they are. And one of the things, he goes, he goes, they're so terrible to us and they should give us a parade for what we've brought them. You know what I mean? Like, why don't. We should get parades and do us. And I'm like, get a fucking dog. Like, I don't know what to tell you. If you want people to love you, be lovable. For one and two, this is not, you know that at one point someone, recently, they were interesting. I wrote Burn Book and someone came up to me and they said, that was really mean. I'm like, well, fucking get used to it, whatever. And now they came up to me, they're like, oh, it wasn't mean enough. And I was like, why are we saying the word mean? I'm reporting what they're like. And it's just really hard to like when you have them like that. Why they can't. Why they see it as. It's not that it's not personal, because it is personal sometimes, right? But at some point you have to be like, just what do you care what I think? Just exactly. You obviously do.
- [27:02]
C
It's something, you know, my, my husband or my boys, when they were little and you have boys, they would say to me like, oh, I unloaded the dishwasher. And I would say, oh my God, let's have a parade down the street. Dylan did a normal activity.
- [27:15]
B
Exactly, yeah.
- [27:15]
C
Or Josh would say, say, I babysit the kids for you on Friday. I was like, let's have a parade. Josh lived his life and watched children under the same roof. This, this wanting praise. Yeah.
- [27:28]
B
I'm not your butler is my favorite with my kids. I'm not your servant.
- [27:31]
C
I remember that when I saw Zuckerberg. Because you saw, I saw them all in this brand new light under Trump 2.0. I never didn't pay a whole lot of attention to him before, but I kind of just, oh, they're from Silicon Valley, they're from California. I lived in Oklahoma. Bible thumper America. So I thought they were all liberals, right?
- [27:47]
B
No, they're not. They never were.
- [27:48]
C
Oh, and Zuckerberg on Joe Rogan when he said, I just felt like the work environment. I felt like we were neutered under Biden. And I'm like, what man says that an 82 year old man neutered him? He didn't.
- [28:04]
B
He was mean to him. He was mean to him. You know, I couldn't believe that that
- [28:08]
C
even came out of his mouth. And then I realized he must be surrounded by just complete.
- [28:13]
B
Oh, no. Yes. People. Yes. I'll tell you two stories. One, I mean, I ran into one the other day. They're like, oh, you know, we're being so pilloried and this. Or I go, that's what the fucking money's for from Madman. I'm like, I'm not here to love you. You're getting money, so hush up and move along. And one of the things, one of the encounters I had with Zuckerberg, I've had some famous interviews with him where he ends up melting in a pool of butter, essentially. And the first one, he sweat. He physically sweat. It's a very famous interview. I was just asking about privacy. It wasn't like it was a hard question. And he had obviously a physical reaction and I felt that. And I helped him take off his jacket and then and tried to calm him down like a mother. I was very maternal. If you go look at the video, I was not mean. I was being very kind. And I could have gone in for the kill.
- [28:57]
C
Right. But I didn't. Because you've argued lesbians should raid all the boys.
- [29:01]
B
I was thinking that actually his mother's lovely. And then we had another interview where he said, holocaust deniers don't mean to lie. And he got in big trouble for that. Every time he talks to me, he says something. He manages to come out with something. And we were in his office once, and he had taken a picture. I'll never forget this. In Tiananmen Square, jogging. He'd just been over to China, and he also had a photographer that followed him everywhere. Like, he was like Prince Charles or something. And I. And I was like, why does he have a photographer chronicling him? Like, what is he? Like the. You know, the baby Jesus, what's happening here? And the photographer even was like, I can't believe this is my life. Like, I have to chronicle this. Yo, yo. And the picture of him jogging Tiananmen Square. And I sat down. There was him on a tractor. There was him. Like he was in the Midwest, but
- [29:49]
C
kind of Kristi Noem.
- [29:50]
B
Yes. And his shoes were, like, very expensive on a tractor. And I was like, okay, those are really expensive fucking shoes you got on the tractor in Kansas. And so it was cosplaying. Like, cosplaying. It was more like Marie Antoinette. That's what it felt like. He was jogging Tiananmen Square. And I said, wow, that picture. And he goes, oh, did you like it? I go, oh, no, no, no, no. And I studied China propaganda in college, so I finished college. And I said, no, you just handed the Chinese Communist Party an incredible advantage there because you're jogging in Tiananmen Square. And he goes, well, everyone thought it was a great picture. I'm like, everyone who works for you thought it was a great. Because they have to tell you that. Because you pay them. Like, I don't get paid by you. But I'm here to tell you 1. In China right now, there's a really serious pollution issue killing children. And you were jogging, so it looks like it's healthy in Beijing. Life is not healthy in Beijing for most people at that moment, it was undergoing a real controversy, but they tamp it down in China. And so I was like, so you're showing how healthy it is to be in China, and it is not healthy to be in China. And I had just been there, and it was a great wall, and there was a lot of smog. And I said, this smog is terrible. It's obscuring the thing. And they go, fog. I go, oh, no, smog. This is me arguing with the Chinese, my attendant. And they're like, no, it's fog. And I go, no, I live in fucking San Francisco. This is smog. We have fog in San Francisco. You have smog, which is pollution. And it was like this back and forth. So I said, you just gave them a PR victory. And I'm sure they showed it because you're the famous rich American thinking it's safe enough to jog. And I said, and then of course, Gentan Square. And he goes, what's wrong with that? I go, oh my God. And I said, let me help you, because I think you were 12 at the time. But there was a guy with a briefcase, there were tanks. He kept moving. It was a whole symbol. I said, gentleman Square. And I was like, you just completely gay if you understand propaganda. You just handed them a great one. And he's like, well, I don't agree with you. I said, and you don't have to, but you're a fucking idiot to take that picture. Like you just handed them a great thing and they're thrilled because you want to do business there and that's fine, but don't be an idiot of what just happened.
- [31:57]
C
What do you make of Peter Thiel's side hustle in giving lectures about the Antichrist?
- [32:04]
B
I don't know what to say about it. It's crazy. He's crazy. Now let me tell you, Peter Thiel's very smart, I will give him that. I read all his books. He has been consistently who he is throughout. They were all sort of cosplaying liberals, but they weren't. He was always conservative. He was always. Had some, you know, I would say religious. Yes. You know, and he's become more so over time. And so I think he's, he's moving into delusions, I suspect, which often happens when people get, you know this, when they get very religious, you know, more than I. But it seems like these people aren't satisfied to be good at what they're good at, which is making money or creating technology. Now they have to like Bill Ackman talking about dei. I don't give a fuck what he thinks about dei. That guy, what is he wandering over here for now? He's like arguing with one of his employees in his family office.
- [32:54]
C
What's the deal with his posts that are like, the tweets are just insane?
- [32:59]
B
Jennifer, you'll understand he wasn't hugged enough as a child. That really gets down to. But it's like, why do they think they can comment on everything? I sort of want to be like, I feel like I'm going to do a 20 part series on hedge fund investing of which I know nothing. And I think I'll do that. I feel like I'm qualified, which is to say I have no qualifications just to pontificate and they just can't Stop. They got a taste of fame and now they want to, you know, they want to talk about this. In Peter's case, I genuinely think he's religious, you know, except he's moved into that sort of charismatic Catholicism, which a lot of JD Vance is down that
- [33:39]
C
road and everybody else, he's religiously abused. I think there's a distinction between people who are religious and then people who have been religiously abused, like children that I grew up around. My peers growing up were told, you're born bad, you're bad, you have to be saved. Demons are coming for you. If you make a bad choice, it's the devil. And I think that is abuse. I think that is child abuse to tell this young, beautiful, open minded little brain that they're inherently bad and this is the only route to salvation. And I think that's the through line between like The Peter to J.D. vance to a lot of the people in the MAGA base.
- [34:18]
B
I mean, J.D. vance, clearly, you read his book, even if you don't believe half of it. He was hurt as a child. That's the message. Right. Something happened back then. And clearly issues with his mom and clearly with his father and everything. It's a very unfortunate, sad. That's the sad part of him, really. And instead of using that to sort of become a better person, he takes it out on the world. Right. And that's so typical. That's such a typical thing. And what's interesting is all of them are at cross purposes with the actual Pope. The actual Pope thinks they're a bunch of assholes. Right? Right. And so I'm like, if you're Catholic, the Pope's kind of the top rung. But we don't like this Pope. We want a different.
- [35:00]
C
And so they're plotting against an asshole Pope.
- [35:02]
B
Right? They're plotting against.
- [35:03]
C
Let me ask you this. I have had this premise that I think that the American public is very codependent with wealthy people.
- [35:12]
B
Very much so.
- [35:12]
C
And we attribute characteristics to them that they have not earned. Like one example is Elon Musk. He's a genius. Well, just because he has put together deals, are there aspects of him that are intelligent? Of course there's aspects to you that
- [35:27]
B
are intelligent producers, etc. He's done a lot of. He's a good entrepreneur, he's a terrific entrepreneur.
- [35:32]
C
But we attribute that these people are by extension Einstein level iq. And then they start thinking, well, I'm going to colonize Mars and Jeff Bezos wants a rocket ship. And then they think they're the experts on everything. And I think we have. American public has enabled this.
- [35:52]
B
We've always had an idolatry of innovators, haven't we? We sort of. Right back to Ben Franklin. Right. I mean, Einstein, not Einstein, was a. Was an amazing person. Right. As it turns out. But Edison, kind of an asshole. Henry Ford, fascinating entrepreneur. Did amazing things around mechanization and how to manufacture things and the car, Stone cold anti Semite. Right. Racist. So that's the problem is that we give them all this power and then they use it for the problem. Or Charles Lindbergh, amazing flyer, did innovations in aviation. Stone cold, anti Semite and Nazi adjacent. Right.
- [36:35]
C
It was like Elon Musk.
- [36:36]
B
Right, Exactly. And so what's interesting about that is that why do we give. Why do again, we have to sort of look at ourselves. And I do think in this country there's an aspirational aspect to wealth, right?
- [36:47]
C
Yeah, definitely.
- [36:47]
B
If they're rich, they must be smart wise. Right. Elon is smart. There's no question. Is he smarter than the nurse? I know, I don't think so. Right. It's just a different. She doesn't just make the money. And I think one of the things I often say is to some of them, when they're, you know, oh, well, I did this, I did that. I'm like, you're so poor, all you have is money, you know, and that's the thing. And I think that's probably a disease of this country more than it is. And so they take advantage of that. That money equates with goodness. And it just never. It doesn't. It really does. And then we have the opposite mythology around that rich people are empty inside. Which is also not true. Right. By the way. You know, and I think. Or poor people must be stupid, right? No, some are. Some rich people are stupid. And that's the problem. Okay.
- [37:36]
C
I want to ask you, your new show.
- [37:38]
B
Yeah.
- [37:39]
C
Do you want to live forever?
- [37:40]
B
No. No, that's the joke. It's a joke. Obviously not. No. What I was trying to do. And it did equate from all these people. They really do think they're better. Like they think they're better. And so they're doing all this life extension. And it started with my dad dying when I was five. And it was really very important moment. Anyone who has a parent that dies at a young age really has issues like very. Not just trauma. And I don't dwell in it, but you definitely become highly functional. You're aware of death. It motivates you. And Steve Jobs did a speech between his illnesses that I loved, where he talked about death being a motivator. And I agree with him. It helps you understand that mortality is one of the great fuels for you to understand that you only have a limited time, so you might as well get cracking, right? And so I like that. What it morphed into with a lot of these tech people, as they started getting wealthier, they started body hacking, they started doing all manner of things. And it was so narcissistic. It was so. It wasn't about making the world a better place, it was making their body a better place. And I'm like, you understand the meat sack is going. It's going. At some point, you gotta get. Let me just. There's nothing you could do. And Scott Galloway was always like, biology's undefeated. It really is. Guess what? Ashes to Ashes. It's actually very quite accurate. And so I was sort of fascinated. And I don't mean to say that you shouldn't try. You know, there's a lot of this merging your health span and your lifespan. I believe in that you shouldn't be have a health span of 65 and then a lifespan to 80, and then be sick those 15 years. We should make that small, but why not for the rest of us? And I was trying to sort of go into it. And then at the same time, the overlay of all these wellness grifters online, which has created like. Like, like, you must buy this $70,000 red light thing, right? Your skin. And it's not gonna just. It's not gonna just reduce inflammation. It's gonna take you home, make you dinner, and walk your dog. What? And so I was. And, you know, it was. It's just your classic grifter. And back in the 20s, there were, you know, or the traveling salesmen that were, oh, if you take this pill, this elixir, you will have eternal life. And it's such a meme that goes on throughout our history, way back to Ponce de Leon, Fountain of youth. We're gonna find it, and it's these shortcuts. And instead, what really gives us longevity are two things. One is basic practices that start early on, and they're boring, and they don't cost money. Good eating, good sleep, good exercise. And that changes a little bit over time, but it's pretty much the same as for a long time. Some things we get wrong, some things we get right. You know, how you eat whole foods, get away from processed foods is pretty basic. Get good sleep. You don't have to Monitor all the time. But then now they have to monitor all the time. It's a lot of information without a lot of wisdom. Right, right. Like 10,000 steps. What? What do you mean? What is. And what. Well, you did 10,000. What's the benefit? Can you tell me what it does? And so one of the. And then they go, oh, wait a minute. Just walking 30 minutes after dinner actually happens. Helps better. Well, Grandma knew that. Like anyone knew that. And so it was a lot of trying to take your health and your health information and sell it back to you, which I find offensive. Like it is. So I was like, what works? What actually works in these practices? What do we need to do as a society? Because like American society, we pay $15,000 per capita on health. Europe pays 6 to 7. We are at the bottom of every rung. We pay double for the bottom. Why? Why is that? And there's lots of reasons. Why aren't we getting our bang for the buck? One is universal healthcare. I'm sorry, I don't know what to tell you. It's not communist. We are as capitalists to say we need universal health care because we're paying for the last part of life when everyone has obesity and hypertension and everything else that is totally preventable over here. And then I looked at. So I looked at the grift and the social media step part of it, and, and the insurance and that kind of stuff. But one of the things that's important is all these incredible, at the same time, incredible medical breakthroughs. GLP1s. Let's really test them. Let's figure out if everyone needs to take it so we can get rid of obesity and then follow up with nutrition and exercise guidelines for everybody. It will save so much money. Like, it's crazy. MRNA vaccines so politicized. They started off as a vaccine for cancer. Can you imagine having a vaccine for cancer? Not just the cost, but the pain and the suffering. You know, you have to get hit by a bus. You're not gonna die in this, you know, which. That just happens. Accidents happen, that kind of thing. And that's the kind of stuff. So MRNA vaccines, gene editing is really interesting. Can we get I interview about sickle cell anemia with CRISPR. There's a cure of this thing. It just costs $2 million a person. How do we get it down so that we can just eradicate sickle cell anemones? Like eradicate it. You know why we don't? Because it's a poorer population. It's an African American population. If Elon Musk got sickle cell anemia. It would be cleared yesterday, that kind of stuff. And so that's what I wanted to get into. What's real and what's just nonsense. Like hyperbaric chambers. I bet you've been in one, haven't you? Never. Good. Don't.
- [42:52]
C
My mother.
- [42:52]
B
Unless you have a wound or deep.
- [42:54]
C
My mother has long told me all of that stuff is a racket. Darling. If they could bottle up what exercise does for your body and put it off, put it on the shelves, it would fly off. Exercise your whole life. And I have lived by that. And I don't eat.
- [43:10]
B
Super late night Mother sounds fantastic.
- [43:11]
C
She is fantastic. She's 83. She exercises every day, and she probably did before.
- [43:15]
B
And so it has benefits her whole life. And the one thing I came away with, everyone's like, what's the trick? Like, everyone's a trick and a shortcut. And I'm like, here's the trick. Don't be poor. That's one. Right? Or be rich. That's even better. You live even longer because you avail yourself to better water, better food, better healthcare. It's just inevitable. Better clothes, better this. And the second one is friends and family. Like, the scientific links are so clear. Not just. Not people, you know, people you don't know. Connection, community. It used to be church, you know, which got toxic where you live. But sometimes that can be a really wonderful. Definitely, there's community, there's doing things that are different, trying things, meeting people. And it's sort of dovetailed into my absolute worries about chatbots, especially with kids. But not just kids. Adults. These are sycophantic synthetic relationships of seamlessness. This is bad for our cognitive health. And at the very end, I create a creature that is me, a caratar. And that's really scary. Is that what's gonna endure? They're gonna create these characters of all of us and know you. There's plenty of stuff out there. We can create one of you. Is that what you want your great grandchildren to meet? No, but maybe you do. I kind of would have liked to talk to an avatar version of my dad if it was.
- [44:33]
C
Oh, I can see. Yeah.
- [44:34]
B
Yes. But this is with AI, it's beyond that. It's not just repeating things. It's actually having a conversation. And that's kind of interesting. So you have to sort of talk about that. And then the last thing is robotics, which, of course, you know, Elon's big into, you know, folding your clothes, whatever. There's all sorts of exoskeleton stuff that's happening. Korea, for example, which is the longest living population in this world right now for a lot of reasons, nutrition, et cetera. But if you could have an exoskeleton and as you know, when my mom's 92, she can't get up. What if she could get up? Like all the cascading problems of being in a wheelchair would go away. And if you could move around, if you could get out in the world, there's. There's so many amazing things that all of us should share and instead it's being used by a small group of people for the benefit of themselves. And that drives me crazy. Okay.
- [45:25]
C
There's a guy that you interview, Brian Johnson.
- [45:28]
B
Johnson, yeah.
- [45:30]
C
And he has posted.
- [45:32]
B
He had sex last night.
- [45:34]
C
Biohacking. He put this up. Nighttime erection data from my 19 year old son and me. His duration is two minutes longer than mine. Raise children to stand tall, be firm and be upright. This reminds me of.
- [45:57]
B
I feel bad, kid.
- [45:59]
C
Me too. Little Moses. Mike Johnson, the Speaker of the House who's doing the porn, Watching his son with his son.
- [46:06]
B
Yeah, yeah. This. That's the only thing I like about him. But go ahead.
- [46:12]
C
What is going on with this hosting?
- [46:16]
B
He's in the show. I talked to Brian, I knew Brian before in the before times. Again, someone who's transformed themselves. It's really interesting to me with a lot of these people, because Jeff Bezos did not look like what he looks like now.
- [46:27]
C
Right.
- [46:27]
B
And I'm all for working out. Right. Something else is happening here. When it's women, they're body dysmorphia women, when they're changing, when they're doing faceless, whatever they happen to be doing, it's body dysmorphia. When men are doing it. What's it called? Body hacking.
- [46:42]
C
Yes.
- [46:43]
B
Cool. And I was like, okay, what's happening? What's happening with this thing? And I'm kind of for it at the same time. When it starts to get weird, you're like, oh my God, they can't stop. Right? They can't stop. The same thing with Mark and his MMA fighting. I'm kind of like, good for you. You're hanging out with. It's kind of odd, but okay, good, whatever. You were shooting buffalo before, so she did that for a period of time, actually kind of. He kind of does embrace some of the try to do different things criteria, but it's odd when they're doing these things. And Brian is sort of the perfect example of that. And he was. I met him a long time ago when he had his company. And then he came to my conference in 2017 and talked about brain health, which was really interesting. He suffered from depression for a decade. He was looking into what you could do around AI and brain health. I thought that was fantastic, like, great exploration, put some money to it, help the rest of us, et cetera, et cetera. And instead he did this and my argument with him and listen, everyone should. I'm from San Francisco. You want to marry a goat, go for it. It's all great. Well, I don't really like that, but I do judge that. Don't marry a goat. Leave the fucking goat alone. It's consensual and it's never consensual. And so it isn't. Let's be clear. And so I'm fine if he wants to do this, but to put it out there like he's helping humanity. You cannot have an experiment of one that will help you, Jennifer, that will help a person in Sudan. You just can't. So then it has to be what it is, which is narcissism. And then, oh, no, there's supplements, you know, or you have Peter Attia some good advice. Guess what? There's supplements and really grotesque messages to Jeffrey Epstein at the same time. So Brian is sort of an experiment of one. And so what does that do? I don't know.
- [48:32]
C
I just think that this is.
- [48:33]
B
If we put the science, $2 million a year on that.
- [48:36]
C
If we put the science into erections, like the science they put into erections has been outstanding, outstanding, outstanding.
- [48:45]
B
Yes, I know.
- [48:46]
C
We put that level of investment and that level of efficiency and into cancer, into longevity, into obesity. We could all be a lot better.
- [48:57]
B
We can all be. But that's not their interest. Like I keep telling people, everyone's like, what's with these guys? And I go, they don't care. And they're like, yeah, yeah, but what? I go, they don't care. They don't care. They want to listen to what they're saying. We want to get off this planet. Cause it's fucked. Why don't you watching that Artemis thing the other day with those beautiful words from all the. Everyone. Those astronaut dudes were hugging everything. They must have maga must have gone crazy, all these woke astronauts. Well, great. If that's woke, I'm thrilled with that. And by the way, the opposite of woke is asleep. And that was great. And what she was talking about is, we can journey, we can do all sorts of amazing things. We'll have things on the moon, but we always come back to the Earth. And when you look back on those beautiful pictures of the Earth, the moon was cool, but the Earth is beautiful. You're like, why? And I say this to him, I'm like, why not give money to stop poverty, climate change, pollution that is hurting and actually bringing longevity down. Why do this? Why get. I get the idea of. And I actually do believe it. We have to figure out how to be a multi planet species. But there's so much they could devote themselves to that they don't. And because they're so narcissistic. And the contrast this week was the ex wife of Jeff Bezos Mackenzie Scott, who I love. I met her a long time ago. She's given away 6, 7, 8 million. She can't give it away fast enough. She keeps making more money to give it away. She gives $70 million to meals on Wheels. Do you know how many people that's gonna help live longer? A lot.
- [50:33]
C
My grandmother was on Meals on Wheels.
- [50:34]
B
Let me just say that's effective longevity. Helping longevity. That is effective. Healthy meals for the elderly. Right? Healthy meals for kids. Healthy. Just you sit there and you're like, nothing. This doesn't need to be hacked. It's pretty basic. And you have. You're a trillionaire. You can't spend that money in this lifetime. And I say a lot of them. There's a famous movie, Moonstruck. Do you ever see it? Oh, yeah. Bruce Willis and Olympiadac's husband has an affair on her. And she's very upset about the mother. And I love Olympiacoccus. And she looks at him finally, and she goes, carmine, no matter what you're going to do, you're going to. No matter what you do, you're going to die. And then she leaves. And I'm like, that's what I say to him. No matter what you do, you're going to die. So what are you going to do? Like, what are you going to actually do to help people with this astonishing wealth that was made in part by investments by the US taxpayer, the Internet, that, like, it's not about, like. And the fact that they go into narcissism drives me crazy when there's so many strides happening. That's what really drives me crazy. And our government should also be involved, but not this government.
- [51:45]
C
No, this government.
- [51:47]
B
This government's breaking down. You'd see that. Don't. Was I right when I told you that? You were right six months ago. I'm like, it's Over. You need to understand what's happening here.
- [51:54]
C
Yeah, no, it's over. And recently we were up against each other on a MAGA Twitter feed.
- [52:00]
B
Oh, I texted you about it. Yeah.
- [52:02]
C
For the. It was a bracket.
- [52:04]
B
Yeah.
- [52:04]
C
Liberal hacks.
- [52:05]
B
Liberal hacks. Yeah.
- [52:06]
C
And you win. I think I texted you. I beat you. I made it to the second or third round. So I text this to Kara.
- [52:12]
B
Yeah.
- [52:13]
C
And I said, I'm up against you. Kara sends me her vote. She said, I voted for you. Good luck.
- [52:17]
B
Yeah.
- [52:17]
C
And so I advanced a couple of rounds, and then Mehdi Hassan took me.
- [52:20]
B
Oh, of course.
- [52:21]
C
I think it's heading to, like, Medi and maybe Don Lemon.
- [52:24]
B
Oh, that's a tough one.
- [52:25]
C
Don Juan. And Don told me, he said, jennifer, my arrest this year, I'm probably going to win that. He said, I'm going to win.
- [52:33]
B
You need to get arrested. I could see you getting arrested.
- [52:37]
C
Could you?
- [52:37]
B
Yeah. Have you been arrested?
- [52:38]
C
Never really have. My hot criminal defense husband can bail me out.
- [52:42]
B
Really? Yeah.
- [52:43]
C
He's a criminal defense lawyer.
- [52:44]
B
You could get arrested. I think that might be good for your brand.
- [52:47]
C
Send that out.
- [52:47]
B
No, because it's good for your brand. Get out there. Chain yourself to a wall or something. I've been arrested.
- [52:53]
C
And then after that, I'm going to start charting my orgasms and tweeting.
- [52:57]
B
Guess what I got arrested for?
- [52:58]
C
What?
- [52:58]
B
Talking back to the police.
- [53:00]
C
Oh, no surprise.
- [53:01]
B
No surprise. Let me ask you a question I asked every single person in this series. I asked, and we string them together. And by the way, Brian Johnson had the best answer. Okay. How do you want to die? How?
- [53:16]
C
I would probably say in my sleep.
- [53:21]
B
Okay.
- [53:22]
C
You know, I would like to be healthy. All of the things. Go to sleep one night and then that just be the end. I wouldn't want to know what was happening in advance.
- [53:30]
B
Right. I would.
- [53:30]
C
I would not want any pre warning about it.
- [53:33]
B
You wouldn't want to experience it?
- [53:35]
C
Death.
- [53:35]
B
Yeah. No. Why? There's a very famous quote. Death is best because it's last. Yeah.
- [53:42]
C
I don't think I want to experience it because I associate death just initially is kind of suffering, but it's not some sort of suffering you don't know.
- [53:52]
B
It's the one thing you don't know. That's right. So it's really interesting. How do you want to die? Well, a couple different ways. When I ask that question, some people think, tell me about their funeral multiple ways. Yeah, I do. I do. A lot of people tell me about their funeral. I didn't ask that, but they tell Me that that's their answer, which is really interesting. Some people tell me, you know, they want to sleep, they want to be surrounded by friends and family. Lots of different things. A pair of this woman who was a twin said, my twin, and I want to be shot out of a cannon, then shoot each other. I love that one. That was fantastic. I was, like, not expecting. Everyone has a different thing. And what was really interesting to me was the way people thought about it, because it's the one thing we don't think about. Like, we try not to think about. And one of the great interviews I do is with this doctor, I mean, excuse me, this professor from Skidmore, where he looks at death acceptance versus death fear. Death fear leads to partisanship, polarization, hatefulness toward the other. All manner of things. Death acceptance leads to community. We're all in it together. We are part of one being. We are going back to one being. It's not. You don't have to be religious to understand that. And so death acceptance is really quite healthy. And it's the one thing that everybody does that we prefer not to think about. And it's a really interesting thing. So I had several. One was in the series, I go, well, for my funeral, I'd like to be cremated and thrown in the faces of people I don't like. And they go, oh, what was that, Kara? Like kind of thing, which I think would be kind of cool. I still like it. The other was, I was gonna have a Viking funeral. I have four kids. I wanted them to learn archery. And then I put all my stuff on a boat and they shoot the arrows. Then I go down like a Viking, you know what I mean?
- [55:32]
C
That's kind of badass, kind of cool.
- [55:34]
B
I'd be dead, but it'd be cool. It would be a visual that everyone would enjoy.
- [55:37]
C
And very dramatic.
- [55:38]
B
Social. Social media. Beautifully character.
- [55:41]
C
Totally right after I tweet my orgasm.
- [55:42]
B
Right, exactly right. And then the last one, Steve Jobs, when he died, his sister was this. When he met later because he was adopted, but the parents went on and had another kid and didn't go back and get him, which was a very, very moment thing for him. You know, very empty space for him. Although he had very good adoptive parents and. And when he died, his sister turned out to be Mona Simpson, an amazing writer of novels, astonishing writer. And he got very close to her after he met her, and she was there at his deathbed, and he looked up, apparently, and said, wow. Oh, wow. As he died, which surrounded by friends and family. And I Was thinking, did he stage manage? Because he did that all the time. One more thing. That was his famous thing. One more thing. And then he'd tell you. But he did one more thing and didn't tell us. Like, he's like, wow, wow, like what? And then he, like, we don't know what the wow, wow is. So I thought, okay, that was kind of cool. And he kind of left us all on the edge. I kind of would, like. I know it sounds crazy. I'm surrounded by friends and family. I have a big family. And everyone's there. And I go, oh, you're kidding me. And then you die. And they'd be like, what? And you'd be like, oh, I cannot. What? And then, boom.
- [56:57]
C
I like all the drama surrounding your death. I know.
- [57:00]
B
It's good, right? It's good.
- [57:02]
C
But you know what's gonna happen now? My answer is just so boring and horrible.
- [57:07]
B
No, it's not. No, it's not.
- [57:08]
C
It's just in my sleep.
- [57:09]
B
Think about it. But that's what you want. That's great. Everybody should. But think about it.
- [57:13]
C
At least I'm going to think about it.
- [57:14]
B
But you know what it makes you think about? When you're thinking about death, you're thinking about your life. Right. And if you're wasting time, there's a very famous Shakespeare quote, I waste time, and now doth time waste me. Right? That's correct. That's right. So if you only have. There is a number of minutes you have. We never think about that. What if you knew the number of minutes? What would you do differently? Yeah, well, there are a number of minutes. You just don't know the number. And so that's what I like to think about. And that's what Steve Jobs really did. He knew time was limited and therefore. And finite. It wasn't infinite even. No matter what these bros do, you're not living forever. And so maybe you could preserve your brain in some way. Maybe cryo someday will work. Maybe you could. You can't preserve what is in essence about a human, no matter what you do. This meat sack we're all carrying around. And so what are you gonna do in the time you have here? And that's, I think, what I was trying to get to. Right. Yep. If you knew, what would you do? And that's a dinner party kind of conversation that everyone has. But everyone should have a different journey. And that's fine to fall in your sleep. Sleep? Yeah. You know, sleep is a little.
- [58:21]
C
The Viking stuff, Kara.
- [58:23]
B
You got to think more creatively I do.
- [58:25]
C
I'm gonna report back to you something with this.
- [58:27]
B
Yeah.
- [58:28]
C
With my pink cowhide.
- [58:29]
B
Maybe be wrapped in your pink cowhide.
- [58:31]
C
Exactly.
- [58:32]
B
Something like smoking a cigarette. Sick. Smoking a cigarette? Yeah.
- [58:35]
C
Yeah. I haven't smoked in 20 years, but
- [58:36]
B
I did quite enjoy it. Did you? Yeah.
- [58:38]
C
Maybe I'd like to die at that.
- [58:39]
B
Let me tell you one more story. My grandmother, when she was. She was very giving to everybody, like one of those people was a little too like everyone. She. She's so not solicitous. She took care of her. She's Italian, very much an Italian wife. And selfless, I would say, for a long time. But toward the end, she got real selfish. Like, suddenly her mind changed. It might have been cognitive. Everything else, she didn't lose her mind at all. But she got sort of mean, which I kind of liked. I was like, yeah, you need to be mean because you've been far too nice your whole life. And all she would eat was donuts, chicken wings, and black coffee at the end, right? That's all she'd eat. And I would go see her and take care of her and everything because she took such good care of me. And I said, grandma, you should have some lettuce or broccoli or something. And she goes, am I gonna get better? And I said, no. And she goes, okay, I'm not gonna have that. And I was like, okay. And at the end of her life, when she died, we took a chicken wing because one time I came home, she was on the floor eating chicken wings because she fell and she just was eating all the chick. It was great. She was just like, I fe. I'm gonna eat the chicken wings, because she was getting them out of the refrigerator. So when she died, we wrapped a chicken wing around. In. In foil and put it under her knee because she's in the coffin. And we're like, oh, this will be good. She can't reach it. And. And we buried her with a chicken wing.
- [59:58]
C
Oh, Care. Swisher. I love this conversation. I love meeting you in person.
- [60:03]
B
I know. This is great. Now we're gonna be best friends. Yes.
- [60:06]
C
Even better.
- [60:07]
B
Watch out.
- [60:08]
C
Absolutely. She's your best friend. Okay, so.
- [60:09]
B
So.
- [60:10]
C
Premiering Saturday, April 11th at 9:00pm on CNN.
- [60:14]
B
Kara Swisher, thank you. And we'll have a party with Scott. Our. Our sidekicks, right? Yes. Yes, we'll do that. Are we their sidekicks? Well, we'll figure it out. Yeah.
- [60:23]
C
I mean, we're the stars.
- [60:24]
B
We're the co stars, obviously. Hello. Hello.
- [60:27]
C
Thanks, Kara.
- [60:28]
B
Thank you. Foreign.
- [60:40]
E
You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over $900 on average. Pop over to progressive.com, answer some questions and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99% of their auto customers earn at least one discount discount. Visit progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates national average 12 month savings of $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary.