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- [00:00]
A
Foreign to figure out what's going on with the lawsuit between Rupert Murdoch in the Wall Street Journal and Donald Trump. We have a legal expert, Katie Fang. Welcome.
- [00:16]
B
Hi.
- [00:16]
A
Hi. Okay, so tell me the scoop about what's going on. You see Rupert Murdoch, who has just absolutely had his lips on Trump's ass through Fox for all these years. I mean, it's basically state run propaganda media over there. And then the Wall Street Journal publishes this letter and now he's suing the Wall Street Journal. And then we hear all this stuff behind the scenes about J.D. vance. So tell us what you know about the lawsuit that he filed.
- [00:43]
B
So the lawsuit was filed in the Southern District of Florida. And you and I were chatting a little bit about this idea of, I think Trump was probably hoping he was going to get Eileen Cannon as his judge, who we know just has been kowtowing to everything that he has wanted in terms of Donald Trump. But here's what's kind of crazy is it's a defamation lawsuit, right? And the lawyer I know who's suing on behalf of Donald Trump is debatable. And, but the judge who got the case is a spectacular freaking judge who used to be a state court judge that I know. Here's the thing. Rupert Murdoch, of all people knows about defamation lawsuits, right? For a myriad reasons, but specifically because, if you'll recall, he was sued by Dominion Voting and they had to pay $787.5 million for defamation. So if you are being threatened with defamation by the President of the United States, you need to tell me that if you were kind of on the fence about whether or not you should publish a story, maybe you would err on the side of, I don't want to pay the money if I don't have an idea if it's true. So, but the fact that they ran with this, as in the Wall Street Journal, I think signpost for all of us in America that they've got the goods, right? And that they truly believe that they, in they, they maintained a journalistic integrity when they chased this down before they.
- [02:01]
A
Published that letter, I don't think there's any question about it because reports were that he was screaming he was going to file a lawsuit for days before it happened. And then I read, which I find interesting, that Steve Bannon has 15 hours of footage on a documentary he was making for Jeffrey Epstein, which I'm just like, naturally. And we know Elon Musk said he's, you know, in the Epstein thing, which I look at him and I think that's exactly who I would suspect. But there was some link between maybe he was the one that alerted the Wall Street Journal. And then what I find fascinating is this whole J.D. vance in the Wall Street Journal. So J.D. vance meets with Rupert Murdoch hours before the Wall Street Journal released bombshell on Trump. Epstein and then Rick Wilson, who I think has his ear to ground in these circles, says that JD Vance went and met with Rupert Murdoch about the succession plan after Trump. So I'm like, what is at play here? Like, we're not seeing the full picture, I don't think.
- [03:05]
B
Yeah, it's definitely chestnut checkers. Right. And Murdoch knows about secession. Right. Because the entire show succession was basically based on the Murdoch dynasty. But this is just more palace intrigue. But palace intrigue that we need to be paying attention to beyond just the salaciousness of just how crazy this is. Right. Because we've always talked about the threat of a J.D. vance presidency. I actually used to have it pinned. I may still on that cesspool of X. I may still have it pins. But I talked about the threat of a J.D. vance presidency because it's constitutionally guaranteed, meaning if Trump is out, incompetent, out dead, whatever, and we've seen his cankle, so we know that it's physically a possibility, JD Vance automatically becomes the President of the United States. It doesn't require congressional approval, it doesn't require some votes, whatever. It happens. Which is why we always need to pay attention to who your vice presidential candidates are in these races. But Vance is a little bit of a head scratcher because I totally believe that he is so freaking Machiavellian that he would totally plot the ability to take over the Oval Office. 100%.
- [04:11]
A
Yeah.
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B
But the problem and the thing with Vance is he's younger, I think he's more nimble when it comes to intellect, and he's clearly more craven than Donald Trump.
- [04:19]
A
Yes.
- [04:20]
B
The problem with Vance, though, is he does not have the it factor. He has the ick factor, as I like to say.
- [04:28]
A
Yes.
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B
He putting aside the couch stuff, like, there's just something that's not really cult like about J.D. vance. In fact, he just gives you ick. And so even though Donald Trump gives you ick too, it's just different. Right. He doesn't have that charisma, I think, that people talk about Donald Trump, which I failed to see, but I understand other people experienced or whatever.
- [04:49]
A
Yes.
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B
And I don't think Vance could carry the date. But remember, Vance doesn't really have to do anything. Right. He doesn't have to win, run and win. He's already there. He just has to get Trump out of the way.
- [05:00]
A
Right. And we know that he went to Peter Thiel's Yassify camp where he came back and he looked better and he had the eyeliner and he's doing all this. So he is in deep with these oligarchs. And I'm with you, I don't think he has any, Riz, but I think he's smarter. He's way more craven than Trump. And you know, everybody has used from Putin to the oligarchs, Elon Musk, all of them. He's a useful idiot. You say, oh, your hands are big, you're so athletic, you're better than Obama and he'll do whatever you want. But with this crisis of Epstein, you know, is he now becoming a liability in their mind? I don't know. But I am hearing that he's extremely paranoid about Vance. And we know Donald Trump is the most paranoid person on the planet because he's out to get everyone. So he naturally assumes everybody's out to get him. So my thing is, how far is Vance going to go down the rabbit hole on this if he's already going to Fox News owner Rupert Murdoch in secret meetings, like that has to strain this relationship. And Mag is already madder than a hornet about J.D. vance. I'm seeing online, like J.D. vance is out to get Trump. Like, so what does MAGA do? If in fact, I mean, we all know Trump's incompetent. The 25th Amendment would be a layup, but he'd have to work in those MAGA circles to get, you know, hit Trump's people to approve of that. So it's like he has no charisma and then he bumps off the leader. Then what happens? What does MAGA do? I mean, what do you think?
- [06:36]
B
Well, you've got Vance pouring kerosene on the conflagration, right? Like after this Wall Street Journal thing comes out, Vance, instead of just keeping quiet, which he's done before, right? He's strategically timed his forward facing commentary in the discourse about these issues that are a little bit spicy for Trump in this instance, he was like, well, if you've got the letter, publish it. Wall Street Journal. And we're all sitting here being like, oh man, you really want to burn that guy, huh? It's like the burn book, right? He's like, bring out the burn book. Bring out the burn book. Like, he's all excited about that shit rolling out and so But Vance is not elegant about it. No, I think the problem with Vance is, again, the palace intrigue. It's got to be done in an elegant way. If you're this brazen about it, I think it actually turns people off, and I think it also makes people think he has this preexisting relationship with Musk and Teal and Silicon Valley and the Broligarchs. He totally. To your point, he's already connected with them. He's already tried to kind of break away a little bit from Trump, and then he had to be reeled back. He kind of had to have, like, his wrist slapped with the ruler because he tries to get out there a little bit ahead of it. We saw that during the campaign. But he's kind of been biting his time. I think Vance has been biding his time on the sidelines, kind of nodding his head in agreement, but again, not getting super dirty in all of this. Right. So stuff with, like, the immigration stuff, whatever. He's not really vociferous, is he? He kind of sits there and maybe drops a couple of words of encouragement, but doesn't light shit on fire. People like that. I don't think MAGA truly wants. They want you all in for total crazy. Sign me up. All the way. Like, Thelma Louise energy going off the cliff together. Or it's like. Or you're not in. Because think about it, all the crazies are the crazies. Laura Loomer, Steve Bannon, Steven Miller. Like, those people don't know moderate for shit. But. And that's why I feel like that's what they want and that's why. But you know who's the true useful idiot is Donald Trump.
- [08:35]
A
Absolutely.
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B
He's the quintessential useful idiot for people like Stephen Miller.
- [08:40]
A
Oh, and here's the deal. Is there going to be a clash between Stephen Miller and J.D. vance? Because everybody knows Trump doesn't give a fuck about policy or what's going on. So Stephen Miller is running that show. So Vance's power starts to, you know, etch up. I don't see Vance and Miller working together. So I feel like that's really where the clash of the titans is going to. The rubber is going to hit the road.
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B
That's like a Kane and Abel event, right?
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A
Yeah.
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B
Right. Like, seriously, one of them is going to take one of them out. Like, legit. No. And it's because you can't have two huge dumb egos in the same room at the same time. And that power vacuum is significant. And to your point though people attribute success to Stephen Miller. I don't think people attribute to J.D. vance.
- [09:27]
A
No, that's a great point. That is a great. And I feel like they think Miller.
- [09:31]
B
Is like the architect of all this amazing success for maga. And I just think that they look advanced and they're like, it's just couch with this guy, right? Like, I don't think they really think that, like bands is advancing significant success for this movement. I don't think they do.
- [09:45]
A
Okay, let's face it, everybody likes nice things. Everybody likes name brands. But it is so hard for me to pay those prices. So I have discovered dupe.com and my daughter and I got on here because we're looking for furniture for her apartment. And I'm telling you, the stuff with dupe that dupe found I liked better and it was cheaper. Dupe.com it's ridiculously easy to use. All you have to do is type dupe.com forward/before any product URL and it instantly shows you similar and more affordable alternatives. Millions of people have already used dupe to save money and it's 100% free to use. Dupe.com isn't just about furniture. Dupe works for fashion, shoes, jewelry, and more. Dupe.com is really easy to use. Just type-u p e.com/before any product URL in your browser and boom, it instantly finds you less expensive alternatives. They even have an app and a browser extension you can download. No account required, no sign up required. It's completely free. So stop wasting money on name brands and start saving with dupe.com today. Stephen Miller. You cannot get more extreme than Stephen Miller and, you know, parroting Hitler talking points all the way down the line. I mean, he's, he is absolutely, you know, talking about Empire State Building just recently because the immigrants were white. I mean, there is no more white supremacy Nazi than Stephen Miller. Like, I am shocked at the shit that comes out of his mouth.
- [11:41]
B
And J.D. vance, I have to remind everybody, because she bothers me the most, is married to Usha Vance, who's a freaking Indian immigrant. So it's like. You mean so. So that's the problem. J.D. vance is handicapped in that way, right? Like, as in, like he has to deal with the fact that he goes home to an immigrant family with half immigrant children. Right? I mean, it's kind of crazy if you think about it, but Vance can't possibly be all in to the MAGA agenda because not only he went to, he went to one of our bicoastal educational institutions. You know, he purportedly comes from, you know, like a background that used to be. He was critical of Trump. He comes from a background that otherwise would be supportive of Democrats. And he's married to a minority, and his children are half of that minority. There is no way that Vance is gonna sit there and be able to appeal to the MAGA movement the way that Stephen Mil does. So Stephen Miller lurking is the most dangerous part of this administration.
- [12:43]
A
I agree.
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B
The one who has his finger on the pulse of everything. And I'm telling you, I feel like maybe we should not be attributing all of this kind of palace intrigue to J.D. vance. Maybe it's people like Stephen Miller who are strategically dropping a dime on Donald Trump.
- [12:58]
A
You think? Because Stephen Miller is. There is no world where he exists successfully without a Donald Trump type figure. Like, he could not exist in a world where it wasn't just completely upside down because he is so vile and so craven and so diabolical. So I just think if he. If Trump goes, Stephen Miller goes, because I just don't. He does not have the appeal.
- [13:27]
B
Or maybe. Listen, maybe Miller's like a Rasputin. Maybe Miller goes through different leaders, right? Maybe. Maybe Miller bides his time, doesn't assert himself in the king role, but uses his influence to kind of guide those people, right? So he goes from autocrat to autocrat, fascist to fascist, knowing that he gets. You know, he gets off on scratching those itches, those perverse issues that he has, and he can just do it through different useful idiots. And if you're J.D. vance, maybe you see the kind of strategic power of keeping somebody like Stephen Miller in your pocket, and that's the reason why you continue to do the Stephen Miller route. Because, again, that appeals to the MAGA movement, and that's what keeps people like Donald Trump in power. I did a book event with Stacey Abrams last night, and she said something. She said all sorts.
- [14:18]
A
I saw this.
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B
But the one thing that she said that it really kind of struck me is this. Donald Trump is that useful idiot. He is not the mastermind. He's not the one controlling all of the strains. And the elimination of Donald Trump does not mean that the movement ends. That's what the elimination of Donald Trump, that is the terrifying thing, and that's what we need to be focusing on. The elimination of Donald Trump doesn't mean that MAGA dies. MAGA does not die with Donald Trump. It has now become so ingrained in our Congress and our judiciary and into our ecosystem of life here in America that we need to be combating the movement, not necessarily the titular head.
- [14:53]
A
Well, and I agree with you. And here's the thing. He's the. I mean, him being the leader is so easy to find flaws with versus somebody that was smart, intellectual, gave a shit because he's. He's like a bull in a China closet. So if you get somebody in there that's calculating, that's elegant, that's a lot bigger problem than the bull in the china shop that we've got with Donald Trump. And I did see part of that interview with Stacey Abrams, and she is such a fantastic leader. She really is.
- [15:27]
B
She really is. And one thing that she said, too, that I'll say in parting, is that there's no failure here. Right. Like, she's the first to say that she has publicly run for office and that she doesn't define success by this, by winning. Right. Sometimes success is just the running. Sometimes the success is, she said, adding chapters to the book. Right. It may not actually be finishing the book, but you're adding chapters to the book. And so I think about how we, you, Jennifer, everybody, who's kind of pushing these conversations like we're doing here and in these spaces, we are adding chapters to that book. We are having these conversations to increase people's knowledge and to also make them think about what else there is other than just one person. It has now become so it's infected our world, this MAGA energy, and we have to detoxify ourselves. And to do that, we have to continue to talk about it. And we need to encourage fantastic people to run for office so that they can help us make a difference in their own roles.
- [16:35]
A
You're so right. And I look at the no Kings march and hopefully there'll be more. I mean, we are not in a vacuum seeing this and the depravity and like, the human rights violations. Other Americans feel that, too. So thank you, Katie, so much for coming on today. Always love to have you on again. You're so much fun to talk to. Please like this video. Subscribe to our channel. Check out Katie fang on her YouTube channel, and she's on all the platforms.
- [17:11]
C
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