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- [00:01]
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- [00:35]
Pumps
There are no two sides to what's happening right now. There are those of us that believe in decency, justice, equality. And then there are the cruel, crazy psychopaths. And legacy media is doing a horrible service to people all around the world by acting like there are two sides to this story. And Bob Costas sums it up perfectly with utter, crystal clear, ironclad conviction. Because this moment requires ironclad conviction. Pop this up. And what has also happened here is that because he is the president, to a certain extent, he is. And what he does and what is done in his name has been normalized so that responsible journalists have to pretend that there's always two sides to this. There really isn't two sides to much of what Donald Trump represents. If someone says. And the idea that you have to find somebody who will not just defend Donald Trump, but valorize it, even on CNN or wherever else, just in the name of being balanced. Look, if someone is contending that the earth is flat in order to appear objective, you are not required to say, well, maybe it might be oblong. No, it's not. Certain things are just true. And regrettably, something that's true in America right now is that the President of the United States has absolutely no regard and in fact has contempt for basic American principles and basic common decency. And again, I've heard this on occasion. I used to love Bob Costas, but then he turned political. And of course, when I did that, every good thing I did for 40 years was washed away. Now I suck. You know what? If that's what you think and that's how you think, if you think it in defense of that guy, I wear that as a badge of honor. And this is the moment that it requires that level of clarity that I will. You can say whatever you want to say about me, but I will not defend the cruelty and the injustice and the dismantling of our country for Dom Donald Trump, period. And this is what MAGA does. They want to be all political about everything. And then when somebody they like has moral clarity, then they say, oh, I don't want to talk about politics. Everything's political now. Trump has politicized everything. The World cup, the Olympics, bathrooms, NCAA sports. Every aspect of this man is politicized. And if you're a human being that gives a shit about other human beings, then this is the moment that you need to stand up for human rights with clear conviction, like Bob Costas does. And if you don't want to, then sit down and shut the fuck up.
- [03:37]
Angie
I completely agree. And I also look at the mainstream media. Are they scared of Donald Trump because he keeps going fake news? Are they scared because he's defunded pbs, npr? Are they scared because their corporate sponsors will turn against them? Because it's appeasement is what it is, full stop.
- [03:55]
Pumps
It's a, it's a combination of all of the things. Number one, a lot of people at the top are Trumpers, short sighted Trumpers. Number two, there is always this desperation among Americans, whether it's at the top boards or people that you know locally to provide cover for cruel religious racists. Everybody always bends themselves into pretzels providing cover for them. And even the media takes part in this. So it happens on a big level and it happens down to a local level. And at the end of the day, if you cannot say with crystal clear clarity, no caveats, that movement is immoral. It is the antithesis of justice. It is the antithesis of equality. It traffics in cruelty. They know it and they like it. If you say anything outside of that, we're providing racist cover. And that's what the media does. They sit and they pop these, these two headlines up. You know, about Trump. Trump is sharpening his message on immigration. No, Trump's being a maniacal dictator for sport. And his supporters like it and they willingly and knowingly like it. And we have to use clear, concise language and not let these people off the hook because white people get off the hook for everything and other white people make the excuses for them. Which is why we have Donald Trump as president.
- [05:27]
Angie
Right? People have just abdicated any kind of intellectual, thought or moral compass for this man who is the most immoral, corrupt, unethical person that I've ever seen in public service. And there, that's a loaf bar.
- [05:43]
Pumps
All right, here's Jon Stewart talking to Stephen A. Smith, loud, a what people.
- [05:48]
Unknown Speaker
Would consider to be a centrist, old guard Democrat to run again for president. And then you say the progressive left wing is the one that didn't, they didn't choose Joe Biden. They don't have the power in that party, Chuck Schumer is out there, you know, writing eight strongly worded questions to Donald Trump about getting the progressives are the one going. People in this country want Medicare for all do something. They're the ones that have a principled agenda that they are going to put forth that all the Democrats have run from in under the guise of we have to be moderate and we have to be centrist. But that doesn't appeal to changing the culture and dynamic of how this government should work by the people, for the people of the people.
- [06:35]
Angie
That's a great argument, and I don't disagree. What I'm saying to you is that.
- [06:38]
Pumps
We'Re done here, okay? This is at the heart of this issue. The Republicans have labeled people who care about other human beings as radical leftists. And people within the Democratic Party go along with that. And tell me what is so radical about Bernie Sanders, other than people say he's radical and he looks like a cranky Muppet man, but everything that comes out of his mouth, I've never heard anything radical about it. To the contrary, I hear all of this radical language coming out of maga. They don't want to honor court orders. They want the military in the streets. They don't want people have the right to assemble peacefully. They want to pardon criminals. That to me is radical. What is it that is so radical about the far left agenda? I don't get it.
- [07:34]
Angie
Well, they want to put. If you care about people, you're woke. If you want to take money from corporations and have regulations which are consumer protections, then you're radical because what they want is unbridled billionaires to have everything they wanted and no regulations so companies and individuals can make more money at the expense of others.
- [07:55]
Pumps
And I just, I think that this, there's a real dangerous moment. If centrists are elevated here and if centrists in the Democratic Party are allowed to define the messaging going forward in this moment. This is not a moment for centrists. And what, what is centrists? What are they? It's the status quo. Like, oh, you know, Citizens United is fine. All of the things that these centrists go along with either overtly or covertly have assisted in the rise of this authoritarian fascist regime that now has Gestapo like police forces out in the street. And then here is a post from the intellectualist that I think is really important. Do not blame Caesar. Blame the people of Rome who have so enthusiastically acclaimed and adored him and rejoiced in their loss of freedom. This is Attributed to Marcus Tullius Cicero. And this is what pumps and I talk about a lot. Trump is the cult leader, but behind him are millions of Americans that have voted for this man three times with impunity. And there are some people that wear their Trumpism out loud and proud, and there are some people that are quiet about it. And you and I kind of got into a disagreement yesterday on one of the podcasts. You think these people, these triple Trumpers, believe that they're good people?
- [09:26]
Angie
Some of them, not all of them.
- [09:28]
Pumps
And I think when you see people that self edit, when they use the N word and when they don't, and when they say racist things and when they don't, and when they say homophobic things and when they don't, and when they say cruel things and when they don't, depending on who's around them and who can hear it, they know. They know. And they get let off the hook because there's always this desire to provide cover for white people and the evil shit that they believe. No other race in America is allowed that type of deference except for the white religious people. That is the. I've never seen anything like it in my entire life. The impunity and the deference and the COVID that these people get.
- [10:13]
Angie
Well, I think that they believe they're entitled to it. I don't think it's a question of I can do all this shit and be a good person because I think they believe they're entitled to do it because they are better than other people and other people's problems will never affect them because they're better and chosen.
- [10:31]
Pumps
I think they believe. I agree with you. I think they believe that they are better than other people, which is why they. They do this. I think the inherent fundamental problem is that people provide a excuse structure for their belief system. And at the end of the day, there is no excuse for these people. They know. They know. Truth serum, polygraph. They know. And how we know they know is because the people that you and I have heard say racist stuff in white circles. They don't say it in front of black people. They know. They know it's wrong and there's no excuse for it. The only explanation is they prefer a cruel form of life. It suits them better. They like trafficking and cruelty. They like not only saying I'm better, but pouring salt in the wound of the people that they think they're better than.
- [11:27]
Angie
Right? They like judging them.
- [11:28]
Pumps
They like seeing them humiliated. They like seeing cruelty exacted upon them. They know it and they Know it too. I just, I adamantly think that one of the biggest mistakes white people do that led us to this moment is provide excuse structures for white racists. And I think it's something that white women like you and me can start a movement of educating other white people. Do not allow racism around you. It is a silent form of violence towards minorities. Do not allow excuses, an excuse structure for white people just because they say they're churchgoers. We're good people, Call them out, you're not a good person, you're a racist. That should be the appropriate response for people that walk the walk and talk the talk. Because these people pumps, I believe at the end of the day they know they're cruel and they prefer it.
- [12:34]
Angie
I think they prefer it, but I think they would pass the polygraph that they think they're just wonderful people because I think their entitlement is so deep and their dissonance, I mean, you look at all the shit Trump said.
- [12:44]
Pumps
Is it dissonance when somebody uses the N word around a bunch of white people and then self edits it when they're around somebody of color?
- [12:54]
Angie
Here's the thing. I think a lot of those people have probably never been around a black person. I think they're only with white people in their circles, at their church. They are never challenged. They have never stepped foot in any kind of diverse circle which reinforces we're better than everybody else because they lie to each other about what's going on in their lives and they think they're better. And they're never faced with that question because they never allow themselves to be challenged.
- [13:22]
Pumps
I just, I refuse to ever believe or provide an excuse structure.
- [13:27]
Angie
I don't think it's an excuse. I think it's reality.
- [13:30]
Pumps
These people think that they're good people because of the ability to edit. Like I don't have their ability to code switch. Their racism is conscious, it's willful, and it acknowledges in the brain. It's acceptable in this group and unacceptable in this group. Therefore there is intent in their racism. And I believe that all human beings have the ability to discern what's right and wrong. And the minute, the minute some of these white families, you know, have a child that then has a mixed race relationship and then they have a grandbaby of color, there is always an acknowledgement that, you know, I always kind of knew that was wrong, but now that it's affecting me, I really want to fight for it. People inherently know what's right and wrong. They do. They genuinely do. And I think it's a dangerous precedent to provide any sort of structure for them to execute their racism and their cruelty with impunity. These people know Trump is cruel. They have the same reasoning skills that we have. Are they more indoctrinated? 100%. It's primed them for it. But at the end of the day, truth serum administered and a polygraph, they're, they're flunking because we all have the same brains that are, have the ability to do the same reason. They know they're cruel and they like it.
- [14:59]
Angie
I think they like the cruelty, but I don't think that they think that they're wrong. I think they're entitled to it. I don't think that some of these people wake up and say, I suck, but I'm going to do it anyway. I think they think I'm entitled. Trump is entitled to do that. He's a rich white male. He gets to do that. He shouldn't have to be held accountable. It's the black and brown people that should be held accountable. It's this righteousness and entitlement and I'm better than you, that I don't believe they have any conscious thought that it's not, it shouldn't be that way, that I'm not making an excuse, but I'm saying it's, it's more complicated than I'm making the choice to be racist and not say it in front of these people. It is part of how they think. It's the first thing that comes into it.
- [15:46]
Pumps
That's where, that's where I disagree with you. If people have the ability to code switch their racism, they're consciously aware of their racism and they are making a conscious choice to choose racism. If somebody uses the N word around you and will not use it around other people, they know it's wrong. If they self edit, they know it's wrong. Otherwise you would just say the N word, N word, N word with impunity everywhere you went until somebody knocked the shit out of you. But there is a choice at that point to know, oh, I'm in safe company to use this now, but I'm not in safe company to use this here because I know it's wrong. And these people choose wrong over right every day, these white people. And no other race acts this way with impunity except for this white Christian people, because the whole system has been set up for them. It has to have these belief systems and to fight for them. You even hear the, what's his name? The Secretary of which, who was it? Oh no, the Vice President of the United States.
- [16:56]
Angie
Right.
- [16:57]
Pumps
Fighting for the Confederacy. They consciously choose when people consciously edit. They self edit when they drop the N word, they know, and they choose racism because they like it, but they know it's wrong because they don't say it in front of everybody.
- [17:14]
Angie
Well, now people are saying it more and more because it's been emboldened by the government through all of the actions of this, every department. Pete Hegseth, JD Vance DEI. Everything's a DEI. They're emboldening it, they're wanting to bring.
- [17:27]
Pumps
It back 100%, which shows that they're normalizing it. Where, you know, when Trump first came on the scene, it was, he says what everybody feels right. He says what everybody thinks, but there was a desire, a reconciling that racism is wrong. And it takes a long time to get that out. But the white people, Angie, in your life, do not drop the N word in front of me. They don't drop it in front of black people. They don't drop it at basketball games. They drop it in safe spaces, which shows I know this is wrong. And that's the crystal clear clarity that we have to have to hold these racists accountable. If you're able to discern where it's a safe space for you to use the N word and where it's an unsafe space for you to use the N word, then you know it's fucking racist and wrong. And that is the accountability that anti racists should actively have at all times in beating racism in this country on a person to person basis. Otherwise it will never, ever, ever change. The fact that they can choose when and where to use it shows that they know exactly how up it is.
- [18:45]
Angie
Well, I mean, I agree with all that, but I'm just telling you that's why you have this backlash to the, you know, the woke, because they didn't feel like they, I mean, they didn't feel like they could say the racist, misogynist, homophobic things and now they want to say it because they have a right to say it. They're entitled to say it because they're better than you. That's what they think.
- [19:06]
Pumps
Oh, I know they think they're better than everybody. I mean, that's the premise of white supremacy. But I think that our, our disagreement when we started this conversation yesterday is that these people believe that they're good people. And I'm saying that that is an excuse structure that helps, that's been set up to favor white supremacy to always provide an excuse structure for people to be racist when everybody else on the planet and every other situation is held accountable for being unkind, except for this one specific group. And it's so embedded in American culture to favor white supremacy that. That even something like that we allow. Oh, well, they think they're good people because it's too painful to realize, but that's the reality.
- [19:57]
Angie
I mean, we could go round and round into our heads fell off, but they're taught that in their churches, we're better than you. We get to judge you. It's our right to judge you. And they think they're being stifled by not being able to say the N word or. Or ugly words about the LGBTQ or misogynist sexist jokes.
- [20:16]
Pumps
That's. That makes sense.
- [20:17]
Angie
That's why this manosphere. Because white men feel like they're under attack because they can't grab their secretaries by the ass.
- [20:26]
Pumps
No, no, no, that's. Yeah. No, no, no. That's a very. That's a very, very valid point. I mean, I do think that there's a backlash, but I think that in. When it comes to these white Christian people that vote all of the time, that attend their weekly churches, I think they know they're racist, and I think that they know that it's wrong. I believe that they know it, but they choose it anyway. I think they think it's wrong not to say, like.
- [20:56]
Angie
I think they think we're wrong because we don't want them to be racist. That's how racist I think they are.
- [21:00]
Pumps
That's terrifying. That's absolutely terrifying.
- [21:04]
Angie
That's what I think. I think they think we're wrong. I think they think we're woke, we're too live because we want equality for everybody. Because if you look in the Bible, it's a patriarchal structure. The only people with power are men, right? So women, black people, brown people, immigrants, gay people, they're all on the chopping block because they're not white men.
- [21:25]
Pumps
I agree with. I agree. I think we agree on every single point, you and me. In this instance. The one disagreement that I have with you is that these people would pass, if injected with true sermon, a polygraph, that they are good people. I can't let them off the hook for that because they code switch. They know when to use the N word, and they would. And they know when not to use the N word.
- [21:48]
Angie
I know the perfect person to test, but it'll never happen. I mean, I know exactly who we could run this experiment on, should fail I don't think she would.
- [22:01]
Pumps
She would because she would never use the N word around me. She would never use the N word at a high school basketball game ever. And that shows she knows.
- [22:11]
Angie
I think you'd be surprised.
- [22:13]
Pumps
I think you'd be surprised.
- [22:14]
Angie
Okay.
- [22:15]
Pumps
I think we'll never know. I think we desperately want to believe because it's painful when people we know are racist and there's a desperation to want to try to find good in them. Somebody that has such an evil worldview and is so loud and brazen about it is painful to see. And if there's a way that we can meander around it, it's good. But the fact that white people say things only around white people that they would never say at a basketball game around somebody who's progressive shows they know.
- [22:54]
Angie
I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree because I think it comes down to they think they're entitled.
- [22:58]
Pumps
To it because I agree that they're entitled. I believe they. I believe with that. I believe they think they're entitled. I believe they think they're better. I believe they think judgment is the way to go. Our disagreement is if they were held accountable, as all human beings are and.
- [23:14]
Angie
At the pearly gates.
- [23:24]
Pumps
Sorry. No, I genuinely. The person you're talking about, she'd fail because she knows better. I believe more in people than that. I think that's the soft bit bigotry of low expectations at play. All right, this is. Y' all weigh in. Do you think? Weigh in on this. This is a good debate for us to have in our community. Do you think people, white American, Christian people, that the disagreement that Pumps and I have is if a white church going evangelical MAGA supporter were in injected with true serum and hooked up to a polygraph and asked, are you a good person? I believe they would fail. And these are this. And here's some. Here's some things to add to it. This person outwardly uses the N word, believes that white people are superior and better, actively judges gay people. Always judging people nonstop. If this person is injected with trucerum and then administered a polygraph and the polygraph examiner asks, are you a good person? Does the person pass or fail? I think they fail.
- [24:42]
Angie
I think they.
- [24:42]
Pumps
Pops. Thinks they pass and they believe they're good. And honestly, Pumps may be right in this because she used to be in that world.
- [24:51]
Angie
Yeah. So it'd be interesting to see what other people meet. I mean, I'm very interested to know.
- [24:56]
Pumps
I'm curious to know, too. I'm super curious to know what, what our listeners think because it's an interesting study of dissonance.
- [25:06]
Angie
It is.
- [25:07]
Pumps
Let's I want to find one to polygraph live on IHOP News, black out.
- [25:12]
Angie
Their face, change their voice.
- [25:16]
Pumps
All right. That's all we have. This is an extended weekend analysis, thought provoking. Weigh in in the comment section. It's interesting. It's because the psychology behind Trumpism is what's going to live forever. Right.
- [25:29]
Angie
We need to get a therapist that deconstructs religion as the primary focus of their practice to get on here.
- [25:34]
Pumps
Yeah. Because it's a really fascinating how at the core of this MAGA voter. What, what is there.
- [25:42]
Angie
Yeah.
- [25:43]
Pumps
Because that this, this MAGA ship will remain. It'll take generations to get this shit out.
- [25:47]
Angie
97% of evangelical. They went all in on Trump so it's not going away even when he's long gone.
- [25:55]
Pumps
Fuck. Fuck. Okay. All right, we'll see you all later.
- [26:00]
Angie
Sam.