MAGA is Cannibalizing Themselves in Charlie Kirk Aftermath

Summary

IHIP News Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Title: MAGA is Cannibalizing Themselves in Charlie Kirk Aftermath
Hosts: Jennifer Welch & Angie “Pumps” Sullivan
Date: September 16, 2025

In this episode, Jennifer Welch and Angie “Pumps” Sullivan take a comedic yet critical deep-dive into the infighting and conspiracy theories dominating right-wing media following the high-profile murder of Charlie Kirk. The duo analyzes how MAGA “eats its own,” examines provocative figures like Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, and Nick Fuentes, and explores the broader implications for democracy when both right and left-wing circles identify similar corrupting forces at play.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Infighting and Paranoia on the Far Right

Tensions within the MAGA movement are intensifying after Charlie Kirk’s death.

• Right-Wing Media Landscape ([00:06]):

  • Pumps: Critiques media for not exposing the deeper extremes of right-wing media, saying, “Fox is just kind of like an appetizer... then you get to the hard hitting drugs. The deeper you go into it.”
  • Observes that both left and right wings converge in their frustration with politicians’ dependency on foreign lobbying, especially related to Israel.

• Hate as a Business Model ([00:13]):

  • Quote: “I just realized your entire business model requires that us normal folk hate each other. And that is their ethos.” – Pumps
  • Argues the mainstream right’s ethos is “own the libs; hate the opposition.”

2. The Israel-Palestine Litmus Test & Right-Wing Schisms

Hosts dissect the polarization around Israel, even among MAGA’s elite.

• Tucker Carlson’s Contradictions ([02:02–02:18]):

  • Carlson criticizes foreign leaders for exploiting Kirk’s murder, but is called out for cherry-picking which human rights he defends.
  • Pumps: “Tucker Carlson speaks out against Israel...but when it comes to gay people and black people, he doesn’t offer them the same level of empathy.”

• Candace Owens as a Double-Edged Sword ([03:10]):

  • Noted for speaking forcefully against Israel’s actions in Gaza, gaining fans across political lines.
  • Simultaneously, Owens spreads conspiracies (e.g., claims about Macron’s wife’s gender).
  • Pumps: “You have to be very cautious because she speaks really disparagingly about the LGBTQ community...none of us are free until all of us are free.”

• Alleged Bribery and Kirk’s “Change of Heart” ([04:35]):

  • Candace Owens claims Kirk was offered $150 million by Bill Ackman and Netanyahu to support a pro-Israel stance, which he refused.
  • Bill Ackman issues a verbose denial, which, as the hosts point out, seems overly defensive.

  Quote:

  • “If you’re having to explain yourself that much...why are you over-explaining this? I would be like, ‘I never blackmailed Charlie Kirk. Candace Owens is a nut that thinks Bridget Macron is a man.’” – Pumps ([08:00])

• Conspiracy Theory Fallout ([08:23]):

  • The Israeli Prime Minister going on TV to deny involvement and the timing of Trump’s and Netanyahu’s statements fuel the conspiracy mill.

• Critique of Political Cowardice ([09:08]):

  • Pumps: “There seems to be both on the right...and on the left, an acknowledgement that all of our politicians are getting dog walked by Benjamin Netanyahu.”

3. Nick Fuentes, Extremist Ideology & Reaction to Kirk’s Death

Examining how MAGA’s fringes attack their own.

• Fuentes’ Opportunism ([11:11]):

  • Plays conflicting clips of Fuentes – before and after Kirk’s death – highlighting his hypocrisy and rapidly shifting narratives (“Charlie Kirk cannot call himself a Christian anymore...you cannot allow him to go to one more public event.”)
  • Pumps: “These little neo-Nazis are dangerous...you can hear these people in little clips and you think, oh my gosh, okay, that sounds kind of reasonable…”

• The Dangers of “Cherry-Picking” Principles ([13:56–15:04]):

  • Fuentes slams Trump and MAGA leaders for their reactions to Kirk’s death, underscoring how even the far right fractures under ideological purity tests.
  • Quote: “Are you serious? This is your 31-year-old friend who supported [you]...” – Fuentes parody, as recounted by Pumps ([14:54])

4. Cult-Like Community Building and the Risk to Democracy

How extremist influencers prey on isolation and escalate division.

• Right-Wing Influencers’ Tactics ([16:54–18:03]):

  • Sam: “These people are preying on people that are isolated, they have nobody else...and telling them it’s not your fault, it’s other people’s fault.”
  • Pumps: “At the core of bizarrely Candace Owens’ stuff is she is a black person that wants to uphold white supremacy. At the core of Nick Fuentes, he is a neo Nazi that wants to uphold white supremacy.”
  • The show cautions that even reasonable-sounding takes enable the spread of bigotry through community building rooted in hate.

• Anti-Trans Rhetoric as a Lightning Rod ([18:20]):

  • Pumps: “One of the core tenets now of the far right wing is anti-trans hate...she’s serving up, you can’t have nice things because look at how crazy these trans people are.”

5. Broader Implications & Warnings

Critique of political apathy and acknowledgment of systemic rot.

• Desperate to “Own the Libs,” Even to Their Own Detriment ([20:22]):

  • Pumps: “We’re probably going to lose our country because they’re so desperate to own the libs. It’s the craziest, dumbest, and saddest timeline ever.”

• Class War and Oligarchy ([20:36]):

  • Sam: “At the end of the day, the oligarchy doesn’t think the poor, the sick, the working class have anything to offer...they need to be in charge, and they’re continuing to reinforce that.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Their whole ethos is ‘own the libs.’” – Pumps ([00:54])
• “Sometimes people on the far right start to figure it out.” – Pumps ([00:20])
• “You have to be very cautious because she speaks really disparagingly about the LGBTQ community.” – Pumps ([04:06])
• “There seems to be both on the right...and on the left, an acknowledgement that all our politicians are getting dog walked by Benjamin Netanyahu.” – Pumps ([08:59])
• “These little neo-Nazis are dangerous.” – Pumps ([12:18])
• “They will literally cut off their nose, despite their faces.” – Pumps ([20:22])
• “We’re probably going to lose our country because they’re so desperate to own the libs.” – Pumps ([20:22])

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Timestamps & Segment Highlights

• 00:06 – 02:18: Right-wing media landscape, Tucker Carlson’s rhetorical contradictions
• 03:10 – 05:30: Candace Owens, Israel-Palestine debate, Kirk bribery allegations
• 07:49 – 09:08: Conspiracies following Kirk’s death, analysis of Ackman’s response
• 11:11 – 13:56: Nick Fuentes’ shifting stance, intra-right conflict illustrated
• 16:54 – 18:03: How extremist communities recruit the isolated
• 18:20 – 20:22: Roots of anti-trans rhetoric; critique of right-wing tactics
• 20:36 – End: Final warnings about oligarchy, democracy and the MAGA movement’s potential self-destruction

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Summary Takeaways

• The far right is experiencing notable infighting and ideological cannibalization after the death of Charlie Kirk, offering both warnings and opportunities for those monitoring US democracy.
• Grievances, conspiracy theories, and hatemongering are used to build influence and community, often at the expense of the most marginalized groups.
• Hosts urge vigilant engagement with—and not dismissal of—far-right discourse to inoculate against the deepening of its divisive impact.

This episode is a sharp, witty, but sobering look behind the curtain of right-wing media, ultimately serving as a call to action to understand and counteract the forces eroding democracy from within.

Transcript

[Host]

Foreign.

[Pumps]

Kirk right wing influencer podcaster Ben Shapiro said that he was taking over Turning Point and it's important. It's a really weird media world right now because you have Fox and Fox is just kind of like an appetizer for right wing media. And then you get to the hard hitting drugs. The deeper you go into it. I think the left and the mainstream media that's trying to report on facts has done a disservice to the country by not covering what they're talking about on the far right. And so I am going to shed some light on what's going on over there. And let me just say, sometimes people on the far right start to figure it out. Here's somebody in the comment section of Ben Shapiro's podcast and I say, I just realized your entire business model requires that us normal folk hate each other. And that is their ethos. Trump ran on that. We're going to get the enemy from within, the radical leftist scum. He continues this talk. He continues this talk. The Vice president, Stephen Miller, Fox News is telling all of America right now when the economy is cratering, inflation is rising, farmers in Arkansas have nowhere to sell their product to because China is just kind of like fu America, we're done. And so their whole business model is hate the opposition. Their whole ethos is own the libs. And so we're going to dive into some of these right wing media podcasters. And first is Tucker Carlson. He was on Lil Smokey's podcast yesterday where he substituted for deceased Charlie Kirk. And Carlson is very anti Israel. And so here is Tucker Carlson calling out Benjamin Netanyahu on little Smokey's podcast.

[Host]

But I don't think it's helpful to, for people to jump in, particularly foreign heads of state, to say, this is what, you know, he lived for my cause or whatever. That's disgusting. Actually don't do that. That turns everybody off. You don't help your own cause by doing that. And it's also literally untrue.

[Pumps]

So this is this really weird intersection that I want to highlight where people on the left have identified that, God, a lot of our politicians are so shackled to APAC money and to Israel's interests that they can't speak freely. And that same thing is happening on the right. Here's the problem with the right. I, I think you always have to look at people who cherry pick human rights. So Tucker Carlson speaks out against Israel and he speaks out about what's happening in Gaza, but also when it comes to like gay people and black People, he doesn't offer them the same level of empathy and support for their right to equality. And so sometimes you get. I think people get roped into these far right people because you see a clip like that seems rational because immediately after Charlie Kirk's murder, Benjamin Netanyahu and Trump are like, posting this AI stuff. It's an American flag and an Israel flag. And I thought, well, that's weird. Yeah, that's a really weird thing to post on the Internet immediately after this. And Israel has been so injected into American culture at a fever pitch. And this is in mainstream, on the far right, on the far left. It's everywhere. All right, so then this gets this. This is where this gets kind of crazy. Okay, so Candace Owens. Candace Owens is a far right provocateur. She is Venam anti Israel's aggression. She's very pro Palestine. She speaks out about what's happening with the kids and the famine and the genocide in Gaza. She speaks out about it very, very clearly. At the same time, she has this whole conspiracy theory where she's trying to claim that the wife of the French president, Emmanuel Macron, that his wife, Bridget Macron, is a trans person and she spends just an inordinate amount of time on it. And these videos get millions and millions of views. The problem with these types of provocateurs is I play tennis with a gal from. She's of Palestinian descent, is she is like, yeah, Candace Owens speaks the truth, and this girl's a Democrat. I said, you have to be very cautious because she speaks really disparagingly about the LGBTQ community and people that are true advocates for human rights. Leave no one behind. They, you know, they. The statements, none of us are free until all of us are free are something that I use as a guiding star when I'm trying to defend human rights. I can't leave anybody behind in that. I can't leave a marginalized group behind. So Candace Owens is basically accusing Benjamin Netanyahu and billionaire Bill Ackman, who is a huge Trump thumper. She is accusing. So let me just read this. This is from the right. Candace Owen claims that, quote, threats were made to Charlie Kirk during an intense intervention with Bill Amman in the Hamptons weeks ago. Owens claims Kirk was having a change of heart on Israel before his death and says that he was contacted by Benjamin Netanyahu. I know that Charlie was offered a ton of money in this moment, a ton of money. Bill Ackman denies the claims and says they are false. So the thing is that there was this Meeting in the Hamptons before Charlie Kirk's murder, where Charlie Kirk had been having voices on his podcast that were anti Zionist voices. Allegedly Benjamin Netanyahu and Bill Ackman and others wanted to give Charlie Kirk $150 million to tow the Israel line. Candace Owens is calling this out. Bill Ackman, this billionaire, surprisingly. You guys, look at this response, response to this four pages of this tweet about, yes, I was in the Hamptons with him, yes, we had dinner, yes, we did all of this stuff together. But it was, I didn't blackmail him, I didn't. But he admits that the, the basically the premise of what Candace Owens is saying is true. And so again, I want to bring us back to this weird intersection. So you have these right wing podcasters, some of which are total shills for Israel. And then you have some that are like, wait a minute, this is not America first, why are we supporting Israel's provocations and genocide in Palestine? And there is a link there that also goes on the far left. The difference is these right wing agitators, again, they cherry pick civil rights on the left. If you hear Hassan Piker Majority Report, there's no cherry picking. They go hard in the paint for everybody. But this is a huge thing that's going on right now that Charlie Kirk refused the money from Bill Ackman and Benjamin Netanyahu and then the allegation here is on the right that Israel murdered him. This is the conspiracy theory. And you know there's always going to be a conspiracy theory when somebody famous like this gets shot. But I just think this is rather interesting.

[Sam]

I think it's rather interesting too. You know what struck me about the Bill Ackman response?

[Pumps]

How long it was, oh, he's notorious for this.

[Sam]

Okay.

[Pumps]

He's notorious for like he defends Trump all the time on Twitter. And there's a lot of memes about Bill Ackman's tweets because he just goes and goes and goes and goes. And my thing is, if you're having to explain yourself that much, to me, it, it makes like, why are you over explaining this? I would be like, I never blackmailed Charlie Kirk. Candace Owens is a nut that thinks Bridget Macron is a man.

[Sam]

Right?

[Pumps]

Period. And I would end it.

[Sam]

Yeah. To me that seemed like he was over explaining a bit, but if that's his MO but you cannot underscore how bizarre it is that Benjamin Netanyahu was on Fox News. He was on another right wing media channel. I can't remember the name talking about Charlie Kirk within hours of his death.

[Pumps]

What's, what's fascinating to me is he's the only head of state that had to get on TV and deny that he had anything to do with it.

[Sam]

Right.

[Pumps]

I mean, so I, I can see how these conspiracy theories get born, because that is a really weird thing to do. And then the time of his tweet and the time of Trump's tweet were coordinated. I don't know if that's a coincidence or not. I'm not a huge conspiracy theorist, but I do think that there is some common ground here if we want to save democracy. The reason why I'm pointing this out is there seems to be both on the right in the crazy confines of it, and on the left, an acknowledgement that all of our politicians are getting dog walked by Benjamin Netanyahu, both on the left and on the right, that everybody's getting dog walked by this guy. And so I'm not a politician, but I would think at some point, if we, when we see the fascism escalate and we see the discussions about eroding civil liberties, that people that are smarter than me and have more power than me would try to get some of these voices together to save democracy. Because at the end of the day, these right wing podcasters aren't going to be safe either if they're speaking out against this. We're not going to be safe. The only first Amendment, and I put that in quotations, listener, are the people who propagandize for what the regime wants. So I, I don't know, but let me, let me move on from that and talk to you all about another far right provocateur and his name is Nick Fuentes. And Nick Fuentes is the leader of the groipers. And it has been suggested online. There's a lot of suggestions online about all of the reasons for the murder. Some people think it was Israel. I, I don't think that or an extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence. Some people think that this kid was a groiper and that Charlie Kirk wasn't far right enough. And so here is Nick Fuentes. What if you're a groiper, what you're going to be consuming? So Hassan Piker tweets this. What a difference one month makes for this booger eating neo Nazi and his opinions on Charlie Kirk. Play the clip.

[Guest]

Disagreements. Where we did agree is that he would go to these college campuses and proclaim the name of Jesus Christ. And ultimately that is why he was killed. The gunmen that killed him, they Hated him because of his defense of Christian morality. Charlie Kirk cannot call himself a Christian anymore. Sorry, you forfeited that I do not wanna hear. And you cannot allow Charlie Kirk to go to one more public event. One more question and answer one more ask me anything without being protested, without being shouted down, without being interrogated about this. This guy goes around from campus to campus in the most artificial and phony and fake way talking about, oh, God, God made me very blessed that I hundred million dollars. Oh, I'm so blessed. I'm so rich and I'm so blessed to know God's been so.

[Pumps]

I just want to point out the first clip, for those of you that are listening, not watching, was after the death of Charlie Kirk in September. And then the other was August in 2025. Probably the reality of this shooter is, you know, isolation. You know, came from a very religious Mormon upbringing, steeped in gun culture. And he probably followed some far and definitely came from a far right family. I'm in no way connecting that he's a groiper, although I could see, based on the evidence that I have heard, and I don't trust any of the evidence coming out of the FBI, that there was a dinner where the Tyler Robinson, the shooter, said to the family how much he hated Charlie Kirk. And if you listen to Nick Fuentes here, where what he was saying a month prior, he hated Charlie Kirk too. Now hate. You can hate people that you disagree with. That is not a crime. That's completely different from, you know, going and ending somebody's life. But this is where these little neo Nazis are dangerous. Because here is now, this is the last couple of days. Here's Nick Fuentes talking. We're back to the Israel thing, all right? And so you can hear these people in little clips and you think, oh, my gosh, okay, that sounds kind of reasonable. And then if you dig deeper into their platform, they're total Neo Nazis. I mean, Nick Fuentes is a complete Neo Nazi to his core. But sometimes and provocateurs say things that get clipped and put out on the mainstream. And here's his positioning now, leadership.

[Guest]

Where's the messaging? Where's the information? Where is the whole of government effort to get to the bottom of this, keep the American public apprised to deter future attacks and to ensure that this will not happen again. Where is it? And shame on all of the Trump shills for not calling this out. They will praise anything. The cracker barrel logo, the Department of War, the Gulf of America. And honestly, I, I was and I'M not just trying to politicize this, but I was genuinely disturbed by Trump's reaction to Charlie Kirk's death. Isn't this your friend? They asked him about it the day after and he said yeah, yeah. Anyway, so we're building the new east wing. Are you serious? You got shot. This is your 31 year old friend who supported.

[Pumps]

So I don't know if he's just now finding out that the leader of the MAGA movement is a malignant narcissist. I mean, I know that sometimes it takes people a long time to understand that he, Trump, genuinely doesn't care. He cares. He cares more about his ballroom than he does the death of Charlie Kirk. It's inconsequential to him as evidenced by the way he's behaved in him skin, skipping this. But as you can see. And in that video he goes on to talk about Israel. Nick Fuentes. But as you can see, my point with all of this is we always avoid this far right stuff. We always just avoid it. And we operate as Democrats as people on the left, as in an assumption. Nobody's going to believe that stuff. Right. That's crazy. But as you can see, you have these moments where these people, it's not crazy from start to finish. You have Candace Owen Owens who can speak and make a lot of sense. You had Tucker Carlson, you have him. And there's moments where they say things where there's agreement. Now their main ethos is to own the lips, but within their language they have to make carve outs for the struggles of working class people or they will lose them. And so I just think it's interesting that we have to pay attention to what's going on on the far right because it's my belief that the murder of Charlie Kirk was born in far right politics from all of the evidence that I've seen. You know, born in a MAGA family, steeped in gun culture, you know, isolated in white Utah, which I'm sure is kind of militia like culture out in the rural area. I know at least it is here in Oklahoma. It's like that.

[Sam]

Well, the thing about it is, is when you see these people talking, like you said, it's like, oh well that's kind of making sense. But the problem is you have Tucker Carlson, who we've had Trudeau said he was an agent of Putin. We have Candace Owen who's just crazy over this whole, I mean, why is she even talking about Macron's wife? Why does it matter? We've got this ackerman and Israel thing. The problem with a lot of these people is they are beholden to people other than their actual beliefs. Because Charlie Kirk got called out by Nick Fuentes in the very beginning. Force not going rah rah deep into against the US aligning with Israel and the Iran bombs. And that's where their original beef goes.

[Pumps]

Back years with these two.

[Sam]

The beef goes back here, but it.

[Pumps]

Was, the beef goes back years and there's a competition.

[Sam]

But these people are preying on people that are isolated, they have nobody else and they, they don't have a community. And they're telling them it's not your fault, you don't have a community, it's other people's fault.

[Pumps]

That's, and that's the biggest point right there Pumps, is that in not having something and being alone and isolated you can, you can see that sometimes these right wing influencers, how they're able to consolidate such a huge audience because they're early points that are made that are universal, that make sense to people on the right or the left. What they do is then they say you can't have these things because. And they pick the most marginalized group which is at the core of bizarrely Candace Owens stuff is she is a black person that wants to uphold white supremacy. At the core of Nick Fuentes, he is a neo Nazi that wants to uphold white supremacy. Tucker Carlson is a white nationalist. And so at the core they can say some things and then they activate underneath that the long standing racism that has been in the country. Now Candace Owens, you said why on earth does she care about Bridget Macron? Because one of the core tenets now of the far right wing is anti trans hate. And so she's feeding them somebody to hate. She's serving up, you can't have nice things because look at how crazy these trans people are. And she's sowing more racism and more bigotry and more homophobia. So that's intentional on her part. It is an intentional way to feed up rage to these people. But I just think it's interesting that we keep an eye on this. I think it's been ignored a lot. I think that we have to respond by pointing out how people found, found communities. Yes, they have in these groups and these groups are the ones that are right now going to absorb the information from the MAGA leadership, the regime that they, they, they need to be jailed. They shouldn't have a right, they need to be expelled from polite society. Because in all of these right wing echo chambers, these podcasters use that they as well. And the one thing that links all of this ideology, and this is what's just so baffling to me, is that we're probably going to lose our country.

[Sam]

Right.

[Pumps]

Because they're so desperate to own the libs. It's the craziest, dumbest and saddest timeline ever. And it's just they will literally cut off their nose, despite their faces.

[Sam]

Well, and they also are willing to I mean, at the end of the day, the oligarchy doesn't think the poor, the sick, the working class have anything to offer, that they need to be in charge. And they're continuing to reinforce that until these people say not only do we not want democracy, we want the rich people to take care of us.

[Pumps]

You're. That's exactly right. Okay. That's all we have. We'll be back later with more news. Sam.