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- [00:02]
A
Evening. Buyer's remorse. Buy a new car. I'll be moving in. Let's get started. Sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana. You what? Yeah. Great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it. So there's no.
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B
No, no buyer's remorse.
- [00:19]
A
More like buyers rejoice. I guess I'll let myself out. Congratulations. I mean it. Buyers rejoice. Buy your car today on Carvana. Limitations and exclusions May apply. See our 7 day return policy@carvana.com every
- [00:32]
C
day as a small business owner feels like solving a puzzle. One moment you're cruising along and the next there's a shipping snag that has you scrambling. But here's a surprise you will like with progressive. Small business owners save 13% on their commercial auto insurance when they pay in full. So go ahead, surprise yourself. Get a quote in as little as 8 minutes@progressivecommercial.com progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Discounts not available in all states or situations.
- [01:01]
B
Foreigning me today is the fabulous Katie Fang, host of the Katie Fang News on YouTube and wherever. Get your podcast with the Midas Touch Network. She is also a former trial lawyer. Maybe not former, maybe still. And an independent journalist that is the one that has finally gotten Todd Blanche to turn over documents in the Epstein case. So on behalf of everyone, thank you for having the gumption to file this lawsuit against the doj. And now we're seeing results, but in a weird way.
- [01:39]
A
Yeah, that's. That's the best adjective you could use. Pumps. It's weird. Everything is weird these days. This litigation has not followed a traditional path either. But thank you so much for that introduction, number one. Number two, thank you for making this feel like home. Always when I get to spend time with you and Jen and, and, and lastly, I dropped my daughter off a little brief summer camp thing. And as I was driving away, it actually hit me a little bit today when I was driving in the car. You know, we've made it pretty far so far. We got a way to go. But. But there's something to be said about being resilient and persistent. Right? And that's kind of, I think, the definition of, of how things are for us these days.
- [02:20]
B
Katie, that's why I admire what you're doing because it. Filing a lawsuit. I mean, two lawyers here filing a lawsuit is a lot of work. It's a lot of emotional turmoil. It's a lot of financial commitment. So you filed this lawsuit to ask that Todd Blanche be in compliance with the Epstein Transparency Act. Of course, he didn't do it. So he had five days, and now that's run. Why did he turn 10 documents in to the judge?
- [02:49]
A
So glad you started with that question. Some people on social media and the Internet are like, ooh, Whoopty do. It's 10 documents. It's actually more than 10 documents. But it's a subset of the bigger group, obviously, that we know that have been publicly released. And that's why I like to remind people my lawsuit that I filed seeks the release of all of the Epstein files with only legal redactions and withholds, and not only the ones that have been public released so far, but also the ones that Tob Blanche continues to squat on and refuses to release because he claims that they're duplicative or they're not responsive. The limited subset that I sought were only about 80 males and a couple of internal DOJ documents and some FBI notes, etc. Those were a part of a preliminary injunction that I fought for and won from Judge Sullivan, who's the presiding judge in my case. And over the objections of Todd Blanche and the Trump Department of Justice, Judge Sullivan ordered Todd Blanch to turn these things over to me. In an unredacted blanch could show cause why he could continue to keep them in a redacted form. Yesterday was the deadline for Blanche to show up with unredacted documents, including proof that why Blanche was keeping them redacted was legit. And in my mind, that was a really big deal, because as you and I know as lawyers, all you got is your reputation, your credibility. And when a federal judge says, I don't believe you, prove what you're saying, it's a bad sign for you as a lawyer. And so in this instance, it's just a subset, a very small subset. And then there's some outstanding things in terms of issues that I did get granted on my preliminary injunction that I haven't had enforcement from Sullivan yet. I'm not saying that he's not going to, but there's some things out there that are very big that I'm still waiting to get from Todd Blanche.
- [04:49]
B
Okay. And it's my understanding, was he supposed to turn it over to you, or did he. Was he supposed to turn it over in camera first?
- [04:56]
A
It was. It was ordered produced to me, but still giving Todd the chance to kind of.
- [05:03]
B
Okay, so now the judge is reviewing it.
- [05:06]
A
Exactly. Then it went to the judge in camera first. He's going to litmus test whether it's Legit. And then depending upon what he decides, there will probably be an order coming out saying produce it to Katie Fang forthwith or not. Whatever it is. Some are all.
- [05:19]
B
You know, are you under any gag order if you get these files that you can or cannot release them?
- [05:25]
A
No. And in fact, I have made this explicitly clear. This is not for my. It's my. It's my use as a journalist. But I'm not keeping that like it's. As soon as I get it, I post it. Right? Absolutely. It is for America and the world to. Why? Because the law wasn't to benefit Katie Fe. The law was to benefit everyone. Right. Especially the victims and survivors of Epstein, Maxwell and others who continue to get the stiff arm, short thrift treatment by Todd Blanche, who wants to sit there and say, I'm such a great protector of the victims, and yet he turns around and he screws them over. Right. So he's such an. But whatever. That's. That's.
- [06:01]
B
He's such an. Kylie put up the clip where he's protecting the predator. Todd Blanch's team says this is a valid redaction. However, there is not a victim. It's fellow abuser Sultan Bin Salam. Salam. And therefore is redaction to protect reputation a direct violation of the Epstein Transparency Act. I've seen other floating around. What is your level of confidence that he has properly redacted these files?
- [06:31]
A
So that example that Kylie just put up for everybody to see is a great example of how Blanche is continuing to violate the Epstein Files Transparency act as you and I sit her today and have this conversation in addition to being in contempt of a court order. Now, the redactions in that email from the person who claims that they loved the torture video. You can see it at the bottom of the scre. I loved the torture video. That is an email by and between allegedly Sultan Bin Sulayem. Now, Todd Blanch was such a prick. He was like, oh, if Katie Fang had just googled it, she would have seen that Tom Massey outed the sender of that email as this Sultan. Well, as I like to say, there's no, trust me, bro, legal exception that I have to abide by. I get because the law says I get an unredacted email. Whether it's the Sultan's name, who the hell knows? I haven't seen it with my own two eyes. But more importantly, why is Tom Blanche, as the acting Attorney General of the Trump Department of Justice, protecting somebody who loves torture videos? He literally put in court filings, pumps he put it would. It's just an email address, so it would only serve to violate the privacy of the email address. Are you joking? But that's what he's saying. No, that's what he's saying in legal filings. That's what he says.
- [07:55]
B
Well, you know, this Department of Justice has just humiliated itself one right after the other. I mean, when a judge. In your time practicing law, have you ever been a part of a case or seen another attorney where the judge in the opinion sent a copy of the blistering opinion, wanted to make sure it went to the Bar Association. That, to me, was so stunning. That just doesn't happen.
- [08:23]
A
Big fan of Judge Kathleen Williams, who I know very well down here in the Southern District of Florida. She was the federal public defender, folks, and she rose to the ranks trying cases. She is a real trial lawyer through and through. She knows all of the antics. She knows all the games. And she called bullshit from day one in that collusion lawsuit. But to your point, that's a separate federal judge who now says that Todd Blanch has perpetrated a fraud on the court and has referred him to. To the bar. You now have Judge Sullivan, who made a finding that Todd Blanche conceded that he violated the Epstein Files Transparency act in my lawsuit because he never refuted any of the claims that I made substantively about the violations of the law. You then have another federal judge who dismissed a bullshit criminal case against Kilmar Abrego Garcia for vindictive and selective prosecution because of what? Because of Todd Blanche. This man has no business being in the halls of the Department of Justice, let alone running that place.
- [09:19]
B
You know what enrages me about this whole confirmation hearing, which I can't help but think that your lawsuit has played a role in his delayed confirmation. But what enrages me is two Republicans. Two. And they're not even saying because of his handling of the Epstein files. They are saying because of this slush fund for Trump. And I'm just like, how craven are you? Why don't you just announce to everybody you don't give a shit and then talk to me about what your thought was on the bullshit meeting he had with the survivors where he said, get to the point that that broke my heart. These women have been victimized, obviously, in the sex trafficking by Jeffrey Epstein, by his allies, but by our United States government over and over again. It's disgusting.
- [10:09]
A
It enrages me because I have forged relationships now with many in the Epstein survivor community. And for example, Danny Bensky is the One you just referenced, who said that to Blanche, looked at her and said, get to the point. If you can imagine being the victim of this type of horrific child sex abuse, and then in your mind, kind of the brass ring is, let me sit down with the top cop of our country, which is the Attorney General of the United States, to be heard. And to have him be such a dismissive asshole, in my mind, I could not imagine how they didn't reach across the table and smack him. And then the other thing is, sky and Amanda Roberts, Virginia Giuffre's brother and sister in law, were there, and they asked Todd Blanche point blank, have you even read these files? Because Todd Blanche was like, give me evidence or show me something that I should be looking at. And they're like, have you even read the files? To which Todd Blanche said, no. So this man doesn't care about anyone, especially the Epstein victims. And for Thom Tillis to say, you must meet with them before I'll contemplate saying yes. And he does it in such a perfunctory way to just check the. The box. Tillis isn't stupid. The fact that Tillis hasn't actually raised that as a continuing point of concern, but they're prioritizing a $1.8 billion slush fund for insurrectionists and a tax immunity provision that Trump clearly doesn't want to let go of because A, he has something to hide, and B, he wants that protection for himself, his family, his businesses. That's what's important. The problem I have with Cornyn and Tillis even thinking about negotiating that with Blanche is Judge Williams, as you and I just talked about, she made a finding that that settlement agreement was void from the BE because there was no legit lawsuit to speak of.
- [11:52]
B
Right.
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A
So why are we even talking about that? Those are dead upon arrival. Let's focus on the fact that Todd Blanchard is responsible for the rollout of these files and he's protecting lovers of torture videos. That's what we should be focusing on.
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B
No, I completely agree. And it just. What it tells me is the rot is so deep. And I'm not saying Merrick Garland, I can't. I mean, I think he has done the biggest disservice in the world. I mean, Trump ought to be in jail right now. There are people, power players on both sides of the aisle. But my thought is release the names, let the chips fall. You are a big boy. You decided it was okay to rape little girls. Now you get the consequences, whether you're a Democratic donor, whether You're a philanthropist, whether you're a Republican donor. But all I'm seeing on the right is just, you know, throwing to me this whole thing was conjured up because it was going to be a bunch of Democrats in the file. And now that it's a bunch of Republicans, nobody cares. And I'm just like. The rot to the core of the citizenry is really stunning, kind of.
- [12:57]
A
Well, it is a reflection of exactly how rotten the Department of Justice has become. We talk about the presumption of regularity in a legal sense all the time, how there's a presumption that somebody who works at the Department of Justice, especially at the highest job, would have a presumption of credibility that no longer exists. We look at a Department of justice that ignores court orders and disobeys them on the regular. We look at the rewarding of loyalists when they defy court orders. They get federal lifetime appointments as appeals court judges like Emil Bovey, or they get cush US Attorney positions even though they're not qualified, competent, or legally allowed to serve, like Alina Haba and Lindsey Halligan. I mean, the list goes on and on. We see the prosecution of political enemies like James Comey of Donald TRUMP Over 8,647 seashell formations. I mean, this is the waste of time, resources, and really the shitting on the integrity of an institution that is storied. It is supposed to be the place where the FBI, and this is the other thing people forget. The FBI works at the behest of the Department of Justice. Think about what could be done if the FBI was deployed to really follow the investigative leads that have come out of even this bullshit redactions that we have in the Epstein files right now, I am one person, but the amount that we've done amongst myself and other independent journalists, some members of the mainstream media, and just regular people in America that have cared enough to dig. We don't have the resources of the DOJ or the FBI. But think about what could be done. I want to protect the victims and the survivors, but I also want to make sure that we spend the time forcing people to have to answer for what they have done. And as of right now, it's two people, only one of whom has died mysteriously, and that's Jeffrey Epstein. And Ghislaine Maxwell sits in her Club Fed eating, you know, Busan cheese and petting puppies. Like, I don't know how anybody sleeps well with that. And that's part of the reason why I am like, hell bent on not Putting my foot off the gas pedal for this.
- [15:02]
B
I think it's so important what you said. We have two people that have been arrested and gone to jail in what we know what the, his Department of Justice has said. We have four co conspirators at the least. Scott Bessant over at the treasury with all those, what isn't it like 1.2 billion documents related to Epstein that he won't release. It's, it's stunning.
- [15:26]
A
There's so many threads to pull. I mean, I literally have like a whiteboard that makes me look like I'm crazy. But I will say this like very like Carrie, you know, style from Homeland,
- [15:37]
B
from all these investigations.
- [15:39]
A
And I will say one of the things that I'm really focusing on is the international modeling component of this slash the beauty pageants. That really in my mind is not only something, it's not in the past, it's not a historical thing. It may apply to, historically to certain offenders, perpetrators, abusers and victims, but it's happening right now. And as a mother of an 11 year old, I think it's really important that we talk about how we can change laws and how you can bake in more protection so that we can make sure that our children and our children in the future are okay. But one of the threads here that is irrefutable is the fall of the money trait, right? If you don't, if you don't see the value in that, then I cannot have a conversation with you because the money makes no sense. The amount of money laundering that happened here, the amount of money that traded hands by and between people in rarefied air with kajillions of dollars giving all this money to Jeffrey Epstein. And it wasn't because they just liked him. There was a reason why. And then the fact that it's taking France and England and other foreign countries to be able to launch investigations, and yet our American DOJ is sitting on it, doing absolutely nothing, including not cooperating with those foreign nations is such a big red flag. It means they are protecting someone or some group of people that they think not only deserve it, but because they're being told to protect them. And that is the problem I have with lovers of torture videos having their names redacted.
- [16:59]
B
Now, I think you're right and I think Donald Trump's the head of the snake. I mean, I don't think he's the only one, but I, I don't if Todd Blanche is not confirmed and he appoints somebody else, we're going to be right Back in the same position. Whoever Trump appoints is never going to voluntarily release these files in accordance with the law. Let's do a question. Because I keep waiting for this and I hear. I don't hear that much about it. I went down the Epstein rabbit hole, you know, from jump, when I first heard about it, because I couldn't wrap my head around it. And over and over again, you hear about the videos. His every bedroom, massage room, playroom, cameras.
- [17:41]
A
Yeah.
- [17:42]
B
Secret cameras outside, inside. Every single victim has said there was tons of hidden cameras. Then we have the. The rooms that are nothing but TVs that are monitoring this. But I have yet see any clip or video. What is the status of that evidence? Because the DOJ has to be. I mean, they have to be in possession of that. Right.
- [18:07]
A
So the FBI took them into custody. They took them in through a chain of custody. They are held in evidence. I haven't seen them either. I haven't seen any videos. I've seen inappropriately not redacted photos released by the Department of Justice depicting children and minors. Haven't seen any videos. Where are the videos, Todd? Why haven't I gotten the videos? I mean, that's the stuff that remains as a part of the entirety or the universe of the Epstein files. Here's the other thing. It's not even just references to the videos. We have testimony from people like Sarah Kellen, who has told Congress that she went to Mar a Lago and she went to all these locations to take and to help round up computers, hard drives, laptops, videos. That is physical. Where has it been? But here's the crazy. After Epstein ends up dead mysteriously. I'm sorry, but it was mysterious.
- [19:00]
B
Mysterious.
- [19:01]
A
It took the French authorities more than five weeks to go with searches. Parisian apartment when they got there, what's there? Nobody knows either there was nothing either there was something. Nobody's talking about that too. It is one of the most disturbing things from a trial lawyer, former prosecutor, law enforcement point of view. The, the. The questions that linger about chain of custody here, it's not conspiratorial. It's very real. Because what I think is freaking me out the most is two things. One, the only person who has said what the number is associated with the Epstein files at around is Todd Blanch. That worries me because that man cannot be trusted. And I have a think about that for a second. We all assume that there's, quote, only six or whatever, six million. And I'm like, wait, wait. I think the only person who told me that is the Department of Justice under Trump. I can't trust that. So that worries me. That keeps me up. Number two. The other thing I don't understand is this. There is a sense of exigency. Time has lapsed on so many statutes of limitations. So why are people not moving faster to be able to uncover the truth for people? That is part of the reason why my focus on what's happening in France right now, which has taken up a lot of my, my, my journalism, is because France has a legal valve that has been created that has opened a sliding statute of limitations to allow for investigation and prosecution in France. So one of the things is Ghislaine Maxwell, for example, as a French citizen, could be extradited to France to face charges where she wouldn't get anything here other than what she's already doing. Right? And so these are the things that I'm saying. Come on, people, let's go, let's go. Let's hurry up. Let's hurry up. I don't care about what happened before. I'm focusing on what's happening now. And I feel like we're losing daylight on this. And that is part of the reason why I'm pushing so hard to not let Moss grow on this, that we have to keep it pushing forward, you know?
- [21:01]
B
No, I completely agree. I mean, five weeks, the Epstein ranch, the Zorro ranch in New Mexico, nobody's ever done. I mean, they did a slight investigation. DOJ in New York says we've got it. Now we find out this state committee they're running, DOJ is not cooperating with him. No.
- [21:16]
A
And today, today is the day that the interim report is statutory to be produced by the Truth Commission.
- [21:22]
B
I can't wait.
- [21:23]
A
I can't wait. But you know what? What do I know? I know my own Department of Justice in the United States won't cooperate with the New Mexico Attorney General. So if you're not cooperating, I know they're not giving shit to the Truth Commission in New Mexico. You think you're going to give something to France, to the United Kingdom. You think you're going to give it to another country? Like, nah, you're not going to. And so it just makes me wonder, like, why? What are you hiding? There is nothing of value to hide unless you have decided that child rape, that you're okay with it. I hate to be so glib, but isn't that the case if child rape is there? We're at that point, are we not now? I kind of feel like we are.
- [21:59]
B
We're absolutely. We are absolutely there. I mean, it's been proven over and over and over again that people are willing to look the other way on child rape. And it is sad. And I don't know how you fix that. I really, I mean, I don't know what the cure for that is, but. Okay, one more question before I let you go. So let's assume Todd Blanche is appointed. He is confirmed. Because I can't imagine that any of these spineless Republicans are really going to stick with it for too long. That's my guess. What happens next after you get the 10 and does your lawsuit, I know it's against the Department of Justice. Does it still stay intact and are you able to subpoena him for a deposition? Okay, that was like 10 questions at once.
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C
No, no, no.
- [22:49]
A
But it's, but it's so good because this is why I love having these conversations with you specifically. So, so here is the answer. Once Judge Sullivan does his review of what Todd Blanche has submitted in camera in chambers, Judge Sullivan will issue an order or some type of document that reflects that he's reviewed it and that he is ordering all, some, none to be produced to me in an unredacted form. Again, There are the FBI handwritten notes involving the 13 year old victim who alleges that Donald Trump, Trump sexually assaulted her and physically assaulted her. I still don't have those. There's the foreign language documents that Tom Blanch hasn't translated that Judge Sullivan said he had to do. I still don't have those. And then there's the redaction log that the law required Blanche to do. I still don't have that redaction log. So I am waiting for something from the judge that addresses what he reviewed in chambers and those three outstanding areas of my preliminary injunction. Now you and I both know, what does this DOJ love to do? Delay. What is a delay? They could file an appeal after Judge Sullivan enters this next order or document stating turn this over, blah, blah, blah. Right. Assuming there's an appeal, which I know is probably the name of the game here, we'll have to tackle that. Assuming there's no appeal. I have yet to have my lawsuit dismissed in any way. In fact, Judge Sullivan found when I filed my motion for preliminary injunction that I had standing to be able to lawsuit. So what's probably coming next from them is going to be some, some version of a motion to dismiss my lawsuit stating I don't have the ability to bring this lawsuit, blah, blah, blah, which then also will create another escape valve of an appeal for them I hate. I mean, I'm just speaking plainly, right? Because this is just the reality of, of how litigation works. But assuming that we survive all of that, which I believe we will, then I'm not waiting. I'm already going to be working on discovery. I'm going to be sending discovery demands. I'm going to do a request for production, which is a vehicle in the law by which I can get certain documents turned over to me, including communications about things in the Epstein files. I'm going to ask for depositions of people like Todd Blanch and Pam Bondi and Cash Patel and all the people that have their grubby fingerprints all over these Epstein files and the rollout of them, including Donald Trump. Trump gotta know whether or not Donald Trump was telling them to sit there and block it. How about Susie Wiles and J.D. vance and all those assholes that went to the Situation Room to talk about the Epstein files not being released. And then here's. Go ahead, go ahead.
- [25:24]
B
The fantasy of that is making me have chills. Okay, sorry.
- [25:27]
C
Right.
- [25:27]
A
Think about that.
- [25:28]
C
Right?
- [25:28]
A
Because discovery is liberal if it's real. Yeah. And then I also have interrogatories where you ask people to answer questions in writing, under oath. That's in addition to depositions. Then I can also do a request for admission where you ask somebody to say, admit or deny the following statement. And then one like kind of epiphany I had the other day was this. Every civil case has a mandatory order to go to mediation. So I'd have to go to a court ordered mediation where Todd Blanche would have to show up and he'd have to sit there and try to negotiate a settlement with me. I mean, it is just one of the wildest things that occurred to me when I was like, oh, yeah, this is a civil case. Like, this is. So that's why I am trying to tell people. I get your frustration with thinking it's just a small group of documents. I get your frustration thinking that nothing's going to happen. We've made it this far. I'm not going to relent. So please know that I am like junkyard dog over a bone about this stuff and I will be relentless when it comes to just keep on pushing this forward and forward.
- [26:32]
B
Well, I appreciate it and it's a lot of work. It is a lot of work, what you're doing. It is not easy work. So thank you. Keep us posted anytime you want to come back and update us. I'm. I'm really proud of you and I admire your, you know, the persistence. You're just, let's fucking go. You're not scared despite, you know, mainstream media. You're not bending the knee and I appreciate that.
- [26:58]
A
There's, that's what we have to do. You, me, this is what we do. This is what we do in independent media. We don't owe anybody anything other than our viewers and subscribers the truth in an unadulterated form about what's going on. I am now loving the saying, which is I only have to be truthful. I don't have to be neutral because it's true. If I give you facts and evidence, you can do with it as you may. But I am most certainly telling you what I think about those facts and evidence.
- [27:26]
B
God, I love you, Katie. I will keep watching and keep us posted. And really good work on all that. Thank you for what you're doing. It's so necessary.
- [27:36]
A
Thank you.
- [27:37]
B
Bye.
- [27:48]
C
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- [28:18]
A
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