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- [00:01]
John Fugal Sang
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- [00:32]
Podcast Host
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- [02:09]
John Fugal Sang
It's so nice to be back. Thank you for that lovely introduction.
- [02:12]
Podcast Host
Okay, so I want to play a clip for you where the racism in this group of people, this MAGA Christian nationalism talking about Hakeem Jeffries. It is a Catholic pastor talking to a United States Congressperson about Hakeem Jeffries.
- [02:31]
John Fugal Sang
Hakeem Jeffries wants to be involved in Virginia politics. Then I suggest he does what a bunch of New Yorkers are doing. Leave New York, move down here to Virginia, run for office. Down here you can represent us. If not, get your cotton picking hands off of Virginia.
- [02:47]
Podcast Host
That's right. Ditto. Yes, yes to that. Is that not crazy? I mean, they're not even disguising it. And that's one of the things I've always known racism exists. I grew up in a homogenized household. That racism was just, that's just how it was. The fact that it's been so empowered under Trump in this, this regime. How do you think of that in your mind?
- [03:14]
John Fugal Sang
Well, it's a great question because, you know, the fish rots from the head down. And Donald Trump is so racist, his cross burn themselves. Donald Trump is so racist that when he types how to be in his browser, it autocompletes more racist. Donald Trump is so racist, he makes the escort read him the Dred Scott decision as foreplay. Do you understand what I'm saying? He's a racist man. Donald Trump is so racist, his safe word for the escort to stop choking him is all lives matter. He's a very racist man. He has been racist his entire life. His first time he was ever mentioned in the New York Times was when the Nixon Justice Department went after him and his racist dad for their housing practices. Imagine being too racist for Nixon if you can. And in a way, he's given a valuable service to show where we're really at, because what he's done is get a lot of them to show you take off the mask and there's a hood underneath. And I like to say that America is like an old couch and Donald Trump is the black light. And so he's showing a lot of stuff that's always been there and it's always been disgusting, but right now it's very shiny. And he did this running for office the first time by launching a political career. Well, his third political career. First he was a Democrat, then he was Reform Party. But when he became a Republican, he launched that career with this racist lie that the first black president wasn't really one of us. And he launched his second term on the racist lie that there were Haitians, refugees in Springfield who were kidnapping and eating pets. And even after that was confirmed to be a lie, he and his vice president spread it anyway. So what he's done is create a permission structure for a lot of people who pretend to be Christian to come on out and show that they're not. They can't stand the actual teachings of that brown skinned, Jewish, homeless rabbi from Galilee. They worship Caesar and Jesus is a prop. And that's what you need to know about MAGA Christianity. They do not follow Christ. They use him.
- [05:24]
Podcast Host
No, I completely agree. And I also think you have Nikki Haley as a candidate in 2024 saying the United States is not racist. And I'm just like Are you fucking kidding me? Like, we have to address it because the lie that we have told ourselves as a nation, that we have atoned, everything's fine, we're moving forward. And it's a lie. It is a big fat lie. And we have got as got to as a nation to address it if we ever hope to move forward.
- [05:55]
John Fugal Sang
But if you're a mediocre politician, you're not gonna get votes from mediocre white folks by telling the truth about this. So you've gotta come out and say, oh, we had a black president, there's no more racism. That was John Roberts whole reasoning the first time they gutted the Voting Rights act back in 2013 when they got rid of the pre clearance rules. I mean, we had these rules in place that said, okay, Confederate states that have traditionally, historically had a problem with letting black folks vote fairly, you have a special set of rules of hoops you have to jump through to make sure you're not going to cheat again. And they cried victim because that's what they do is play victim. And so John Roberts whole thing, the wise choice would have been make all 50 states have the preclearance rules. But instead the John Roberts court said, no, no, there's a black president, no more racism. And now this is part of their goal as well. Liberals screw up when they say, oh, they're taking away the black vote. It's dirtier than that. They're not taking away the black vote. They're taking away the chance that the black vote might count for something. Tennessee is 40% African American and they are now rigging it that there will be no African Americans ever representing Tennessee or a lot of the other former Confederate states again. And it shows how terrified they are. White people are projected to become a minority population in this country in 2045. We will dip below 50%. And that is going to be driving a lot of bad behavior by white Christians who don't read the Jesus parts, are heavily armed, and are freaking what we call the fuck out.
- [07:27]
Podcast Host
Okay, I want to go back to something you said. It's kind of just now hitting my brain.
- [07:31]
John Fugal Sang
Hit me.
- [07:32]
Podcast Host
So in my head, having been raised evangelical, I thought this Christian nationalism and MAGA ism is rooted in racism and a thirst for the Old Testament God. But you say, caesar, tell me what you think the difference is.
- [07:53]
John Fugal Sang
That's a great question. You know, it's rooted in tribalism. It's rooted. It's rooted in a tribalism that believes that we're right and God likes us better. That's the curse that white people have had in this country.
- [08:05]
Podcast Host
That's my life. That was my motto.
- [08:07]
John Fugal Sang
Yeah, it's awful. We are the only country in the entire planet where our history of Christianity is completely intertwined with a history of white supremacy. We're the only country that has that. We were founded with both of those things. We were founded with that hypocrisy at the same time. So there's a reason why these folks want to put up the Ten Commandments in schools, but not the Sermon on the Mount. Have you ever noticed these folks never fight to get a single teaching of Jesus put on a courthouse wall or a classroom wall? They're not really interested in Jesus. They don't want to fight. They'll fight for him, but they won't listen to him and they won't follow him. Because Jesus is chaos. Jesus is love. Jesus is dropping all of your prejudices, treating others as you would be treated, welcoming the stranger. I mean, look at the guy. Matthew 25. He commands individuals and nations, individuals and nations. He says, you will be judged heaven or hell based on four things. Did you take care of the poor? Did you take care of the sick? Did you welcome the stranger? Were you kind to those in prison? How the hell is a Republican supposed to get elected on that? Ten Commandments. You can't do this. You can't do this. You can't do this. You can't do this. They don't believe in the Ten Commandments and I can prove it because Donald Trump has violated all ten. Yes, if they believed in the Ten Commandments, they wouldn't support Trump. They are props for people to presume virtue and feel good about themselves while they do the opposite of what the Nazarene commands. They don't follow him. And you don't need to believe in Jesus as a divine figure. You don't need to believe in miracles and all that stuff to be able to call them out on it. They use this holy book, but they won't follow it. So yeah, everyone picks and chooses the parts of the Bible they want to follow. Right? Everybody does it. But when you're picking and choosing Old Testament passages about domination and power or St. Paul passages about women being second class citizens, they all do it to get a get out of Jesus free card. And even atheists can call these people out for not actually following Jesus, just using him as a mascot and a prop.
- [10:09]
Podcast Host
I agree with you 100%. Okay, that brings us perfectly to the segue of the golden statue of Donald Trump. So here he is with his trophy. That looks nothing like him, as you can see, because it's thin and fit. And we did see that. The sculptor said that. No, it was a complete clusterfuck. They wanted him center. They didn't want the wobbler chin, the whole nine.
- [10:34]
John Fugal Sang
Yeah.
- [10:35]
Podcast Host
You have this. And there are people that are like, wait a minute, isn't that an idol? Because I haven't been to Bible school in a long time, but I do know that's a commandment, the number one. No idols before me. Interesting. Listen to a pastor defend it. This is what's crazy.
- [10:53]
John Fugal Sang
Yeah. Opposite of the miracle of God. That's what it represents. Not, you know, the, the statue stuff. Because we all know that this is not some. You know, again, you see across social media that this is some idol. And what is your response to that? This is somehow a false idol? You know, because people talk about the Golden Calf. Well, is this the Golden Trump? Well, of course it's preposterous. It's blasphemy to even think that. I mean, if you knew me, of course, I don't know anybody who worships Donald Trump as a God. Oh, my, oh, my, where to begin? It is blasphemy. It's all blasphemy. Pretending that you can follow Donald Trump and Jesus at the same time just tells us that you've never read either one of their books because these two guys are not compatible. The only thing Donald Trump has in common with Jesus is they spent a lot of time around prostitutes and they both used ghost writers. And that's really it, friends. There's nothing else these guys have in common. And nothing says, oh, we worship Jesus, not idols. Like a giant gold statue of a reality TV built, billionaire, felon, rapist, politician at a golf resort. I swear to God, the book of Exodus should sue these people for copyright infringement. These same people who scream to us about the war on Christmas. This is the whole Golden Calf expanded universe at the 18th hole. It's like, it looks like a deleted scene from the fall of Rome. And, you know, this is when we have this racist pastor, Robert Jeffress, coming out and saying, it looks like President Trump has a better understanding of what the Bible teaches than the Pope. These people, I swear to God, this is a giant golden idol of a rich, adulterous political strongman who kills people. And the same people who are flipping out about Starbucks cups a few months ago are now saying, oh, finally, traditional Christian values. And it might be traditional Christian values. It is not the values of Christ. We have to Take their camouflage away. These people don't follow Jesus in any way. And try this with your Republican loved ones. Just say, give me one teaching of Jesus from the Gospels that Trump or the MAGA movement have fought for or just campaigned on. One thing that Jesus said that they campaigned on, and you will find out how little your friends know about the Jesus parts of the Bible. I've been doing this for 10 years. Number one answer, abortion. And I'm like, well, the Bible's not against abortion. Jesus is against the death penalty, but the Bible never bans abortion, never has any penalties for ending a pregnancy. You think God might have Moses or Jesus or Elijah or Paul or one of those characters in all those thousands of pages mentioned at one time. The only time abortion's mentioned in the Bible is instructions on how to do one. If you think your wife is pregnant by another man in Numbers 5, or in Jeremiah's lament where he wishes his father had killed him in the womb, which tells us they used to do this sort of thing at the time, and no one brings it up. And that is why abortions are legal and free in Israel right now. Fox News doesn't talk about this, but abortions are legal and free in Israel because the Bible and Judaism never banned them. The number two answer I get is the strong border. And it's like, sorry, God commands us in the Hebrew scriptures to welcome the stranger, treat the alien as our own. Jesus says we'll be judged on it. I'm not saying we shouldn't have standards on who comes into the country, but, you know, to call Christian refugees illegals and the horrendous racism and abuse we've seen. And then the third most common answer I get is, this is true. They'll say, he moved the US Embassy to Jerusalem. And I have to explain that at no point in the Bible does Jesus ever mention the United States or where he'd like our Embassy to go 2000 years in the future, oddly enough. Read the Bible. They haven't read it. And that's why they can't stand this Pope, because he has read it.
- [14:44]
Podcast Host
Okay, let's talk about this whole Pope war Trump started. Like, why do you think, okay, here's Trump. He is the most insecure, just craven man that you can never make him feel like he's good enough.
- [14:59]
John Fugal Sang
Never, never enough.
- [15:01]
Podcast Host
So he, you know, he picks on Obama because Obama is everything he will never be. But then he goes after the Pope. Just, like, wakes up one morning and goes after the Pope. We see that he won Catholics by 14 points and 24.
- [15:17]
John Fugal Sang
Oh, I know.
- [15:18]
Podcast Host
They are so mad. It's the first American Pope. What do you think was behind that?
- [15:25]
John Fugal Sang
Well, where. Where do I begin? First off, we have to get one thing straight. You know, the media, about how Donald Trump is in a war with the Pope. J.D. vance is fighting with the Pope. Mike Johnson is fighting. Mike Johnson, America's creepiest youth pastor, fighting with the Pope. I can see why the media likes to frame it that way, but the reality is they're not fighting with this Pope. This Pope is just quoting Jesus. That's all he's done. This Pope walks to a mic and he just drops a Jesus greatest hits album. You know, like, blessed are the peacemakers. Turn the other cheek, Put away your sword. For those who live by the sword will die by the sword. He's just quoting Jesus directly. And that's a great way to piss off the fake Christians. You know, it's like he's giving. It's just Christianity 101. It's not controversial. It's like, don't eat the silica gel, right? It's like, it's. This is just basic, okay? So they flip out and they come out and say, oh, this Pope is soft on crime. And this Pope, he, you know, what's the latest lie that he want. He wants Iran to have a nuke, right?
- [16:30]
Podcast Host
He wants Iran to have a like, Shut up.
- [16:32]
John Fugal Sang
Pope's against every nation having nukes. He's always been. The last Pope was against every nation having nukes. And they're mad that this Pope won't endorse war, which to me is hilarious because, you know, throughout history, a lot of Popes have done a lot of evil shit. Not being pro war enough is not one of the things people usually complain about. And this, you know, the Pope is quoting Jesus, who also very famously had a problem with emperors demanding loyalty. But I mean, not, you know, being mad that the Pope won't endorse your war. It's like being mad that your doctor won't endorse your cocaine habit. All he's done is quote Jesus. And that's what pisses them off, because they can't stand the actual words of Jesus. He is a useful prop to them. It's like Martin Luther King Jr. They want to reduce these complicated, dangerous men to marble statues and a couple of feel good slogans and. And reject the fact that Jesus's actual teachings are as threatening to power now as they were 2,000 years ago. And the media is not going to do it. And the democratic Party's not. I mean, there's a few Democrats who talk about this. God bless Senator Warnock and Talarico and Buttigieg. But generally, it's going to fall to the rest of us to remind the world and America that hate is not really a Christian value. And if you spend your whole time legislating against the teachings of the Nazarene, but don't actually follow him, you need to find an. If I'm at a Rolling Stones cover band, okay, And I advertise, I'm at a Rolling Stones cover band, and I sell tickets, and we're called the Rolling Stones cover band, and you come to see us, but we don't actually know any of the words the Rolling Stones wrote. Maybe we should find a new name for our shitty group. That's the whole fight with the Pope and Donald Trump. One man is quoting Jesus and one man is arguing with Jesus.
- [18:21]
Podcast Host
Okay? That's a perfect segue again, John. It's like we planned this and we didn't. Okay, so you have.
- [18:27]
John Fugal Sang
We're just good at this.
- [18:28]
Podcast Host
You know, we're just so good at this. Pete Hegseth, who I think is just the most incompetent, bloodthirsty, ridiculous. The fact that he is the Secretary of Defense and that we have started a war with this guy in charge is stunning. But we have him all the time. I mean, he's giving these religious like, we're. This war is for God, and, you know, this is all of it contrary. And then you contrast his message to the Pope. It's stunning. So what are your thoughts about Pete Hexath and the way he has made this at a holy war? Basically, yeah.
- [19:09]
John Fugal Sang
Well, I just want to say, as an incompetent, bloodthirsty person, I resent being compared to Pete Hegseth off the bat. I wish you hadn't done that. I. Take a sip. Yeah. My people have some standards. Let's talk about the Secretary of Jagermeister. Donald Trump in the second term has not made the mistake he made in the first term of hiring competent people.
- [19:29]
Podcast Host
Right?
- [19:30]
John Fugal Sang
Because competent people say, Mr. President, that's illegal. You can't do that. Right. I mean, even Bill Barr, who's covered up more shit than cat litter. Confident people. I mean, competent people will say, no, Mr. President, you can't do that. So that's why he hires all these flunkies and henchmen and fall guys who don't seem to know. They're all fall guys who don't seem to know. They're all getting A one way ticket to Kristi Noem Island. I mean, Cash Patel, right? Kristi Noem, I mean, Dan Bongino and Greg Bevito, they're already gone. But RFK Jr and of course this sweaty alcoholic rapist from Fox News. I like to imagine that Donald Trump was like trying to pick his cabinet and said, hmm, who should I hire to run the mightiest military in the world? Should I get a five star general? Maybe someone who's an expert in foreign affairs. And then from his cage in the corner, Stephen Miller goes master. What about the guy on Fox News who used to throw to the MyPillow commercials on Sunday morning? And Trump goes, excellent. And then he released Stephen Miller into the night to feed. That's how I want to believe it all happened. The reality is that Trump hires these jagoffs because he knows that they will take the blame as soon as something gets too close to him, like Epstein. Well, Pam Bondi's gone. And Maga blames Pam Bondi for that. The insanely racist and anti American and murderous immigration policies. Well, as soon as that gets too tight, Kristi Noem is gone. And again, these people are all incompetent crooks to begin with. Cash Patel, same thing. And so Pete Hegseth, you know that the war hasn't gotten too uncomfortable for Trump yet because he hasn't done what he hired Pete Hegseth to do, which is when shit gets bad, he will fire him and Pete will take all the blame for everything that went wrong in Iran. That's how this ends for Pete Hegseth. And he doesn't seem to realize that quite yet.
- [21:22]
Podcast Host
No, I completely agree. And it was so funny when Christine Nunn was going through all, you know where she immediately called Renee Good and Alex pretty domestic terrorists and Miller too. And, and Miller did too. And then she says, I feel hung out to dry. I'm like, that's how this was always going to end. He was never going to be accountable.
- [21:41]
John Fugal Sang
That's right. Treats you like a wife. He treats him like one of his wives.
- [21:45]
Podcast Host
Women are interchangeable the way women, particularly in his administration with this, you know, now they're suing people that have dei. And I'm like, this is the. You look around his cabinet and it's
- [21:57]
John Fugal Sang
the most DEI cabinet in history in the whole world. Mediocre white men, who's his fucking nephew, who would never ever get hired in the real business world, world over. A competent, hard working, intelligent black woman. Never Mediocrity. That's what he does. He makes Me embarrassed to be a mediocre white man. And so Hegseth's whole thing is this Christian nationalism that hates Jesus. He brings in these Jesus hating pastors who can't stand women. I mean, that's not Jesus. Jesus treats women as equals. Jesus broke the law to talk to women and to teach women and to let women who were banned touch him who were ritually unclean. Like, Jesus didn't do any of that sexism shit. Paul brought that back after Jesus died.
- [22:42]
Podcast Host
Right. I was going to say because the Bible is so patriarchal and there's so much misogyny in it.
- [22:49]
John Fugal Sang
So much. But again, that's the world Jesus was born into. I mean, you read the Bible and it's like the gospel according to Ike Turner, you know, the world that Jesus was born into. And Again, this is 2,000 years, okay? Judaism has come a long way. Israel had a female leader long before us. But 2,000 years ago, when all religions were much more primitive, women were property and they were reviled for their anatomy. Women were taught shame over menstruation and ritual uncleanliness. This is how they got women to hate themselves and how they weaponized women's anatomies against them for thousands of years. When you have a baby, you're unclean. If it's a female baby, you're unclean in the eyes of God for twice as long. When you're menstruating, of course you're unclean. Anything you touch is ritually unclean. If you sit on something a menstruating woman sat on, you're unclean. If you bump elbows with a menstruating woman in Walmart, you're unclean. It's all shame. It's all bullshit. Again, you know, they had different hygiene rules, but this is about shame. One of my favorite stories is the ritually unclean woman who had been bleeding for 12 years, wasn't allowed to go out in public. Sam Cook had a great song about this, and she tried every doctor's remedy. And it's a famous Bible story. And then she hears Jesus is coming. So she goes into the crowd and she touches the hem of his garment. And Jesus says, who touched me? She goes, it was me. He goes, oh, you're healed. And it's a nice little Bible story when you're a kid, but in the context, it's incredibly revolutionary. This woman broke every law of her community and her religion just by going out in public to touch Jesus. She was making everybody else in the crowd as unclean. In the eyes of God as her. She made Jesus unclean by touching him. Jesus doesn't rebuke her. She says, I touched you. He says, daughter, you are healed. It's the only time in the Bible Jesus ever calls anyone daughter, and he calls it to a ritually unclean woman who just made him unclean. This woman violated the taboo. Jesus shattered it. And I think about it all the time when I watch these revolting, weak, micropenist misogynists like Pete Hegseth who just disparage the achievements of women in our military and how they're trying to, like, strip the history denying promotions to qualified women generals, taking the achievements of women off of the Pentagon website. Black folks, too. They took Jackie Robinson. They would take Jackie Robinson out of that Chadwick Boseman movie if they could. And again, it just goes to show that they're weak men who are terrified of strong, powerful women. And did I mention that Pete Hegseth's a rapist? Did I mention that 50 grand he paid to a woman? So I say that because he doesn't sue people who say that.
- [25:27]
Podcast Host
Let me ask one more thing, and then I'll let you go, because I know we're running over time.
- [25:30]
John Fugal Sang
I know I go on too much. Thank you.
- [25:33]
Podcast Host
I know. I see all of these attacks on the LGBTQIA community, and they. And like you said, with everything else in this Christian nationalism. Well, it's from the Bible. It's what?
- [25:46]
John Fugal Sang
The Bible Somewhere. It's in the Bible somewhere.
- [25:48]
Podcast Host
Yeah. So will you respond to that?
- [25:51]
John Fugal Sang
Yeah. Because homophobia is a rejection of Jesus. Homophobia is an insult to Jesus. When they want to be bigoted against their LGBTQ brothers and sisters. You can either go before Jesus or after Jesus, because read the Sermon on the Mount. I mean, judge not. You know, and the way in Matthew 25, the way you treat the lowest of all people is the way you treat Jesus. Again, they don't read the Jesus parts. Most of them go to Leviticus, which was a set of rules and terms and conditions that God gave the Hebrews after they escaped from Egypt. And it was really about keeping your tribe's numbers up for 40 years in the desert with no wife or antibiotics. And a lot of it is about uncleanliness, but a lot of it's about keeping your numbers up. That's why there's also rules against incest, rules against having sex with a woman on her period, rules against guys with guys. They needed the Jews to keep making babies. But even if you want to cling to Leviticus, Jesus brought a New covenant. That's the whole point of the religion. You can eat bacon now and keep your foreskin if you want. It's not traditional Judaism. Leviticus doesn't apply under Jesus New covenant and they don't follow it anyway. Leviticus 20:10 commands you to stone adulterers to death if you're being mean to the gays, but you're not bringing a box of rocks to Mar a Lago. We know you're full of shit and you don't follow the Bible. St. Paul had his hangups about women and gay people and he put them in his letters when he was starting the early church 300 years after he died. They put together what the Bible would be and they put St. Paul's letters in there. And suddenly Paul's letters about scripture become holy scripture and Paul's hang ups about gay people become God. Talking about gay people. And they're not. It's all in the translations from Greek as well. It's not going after traditional same sex people. I have a long chapter on this in my book that takes apart all of the clobber passages. They're called all the verses, the seven or eight verses in the Bible that these douchebags use to be mean to people. All you got to know is Jesus commands you to treat gay people the way you treat him and they don't follow Jesus.
- [28:02]
Podcast Host
John, you are a breath of fresh air always.
- [28:05]
John Fugal Sang
Can I also just say there's nothing wrong with most of these homophobes that hot sex with another man couldn't fix? I just want to say that too.
- [28:12]
Podcast Host
And they know it or they wouldn't crash Grindr every time they're together.
- [28:15]
John Fugal Sang
Sweaty, musky, intense sex with another man.
- [28:20]
Podcast Host
I love it. Thank you for being on. Thanks for coming to have you on again soon.
- [28:24]
John Fugal Sang
Anytime you can tolerate me, it's always a joy. Peace, always.