Trump Rapidly Declining As MAGA Slowly Dies Off, The Cult is Not Well

Summary

IHIP News Podcast Episode Summary

Episode Title: Trump Rapidly Declining As MAGA Slowly Dies Off, The Cult is Not Well
Air Date: May 16, 2026
Hosts: Jennifer Welch & Angie “Pumps” Sullivan
Guests: Chad ("Colt Gen") and Haley Pop from The Necessary Conversation podcast

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the complexities of MAGA’s grip on American families, as Jennifer and Angie host siblings Chad and Haley. The duo are known for their podcast, The Necessary Conversation, where, along with their MAGA parents, they debate current events with a comedic and disarmingly personal approach. The discussion traverses family dynamics, cult-like media influence, the shifting landscape of right-wing politics, and the glimmers of hope in breaking through hardened worldviews—all illuminated by anecdotes, raw honesty, and humor.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Introducing The Necessary Conversation Podcast

• Background:
  • Chad and Haley started their podcast four years ago as a way to reconnect with their parents, who had become deeply radicalized by Trump and far-right media (00:51).
  • The show started as a family dialogue on political backgrounds and evolved into weekly debates on current political issues—trying to reclaim some common ground, especially with their mom.

Quote:
“Ultimately, we’re trying to kind of reclaim my mom. And we’re getting close. I think closer than we’ve ever been.”
— Chad (Colt Gen), (02:25)

2. The Cult Dynamics of MAGA

• Media Diet & Indoctrination:
  • The parents’ worldview is shaped almost exclusively by Newsmax (“24/7”), to the point that even Fox News is considered too liberal (10:14–10:46).
  • Family anecdotes illustrate how political identity has morphed into a “cult” for their dad, who will instantly shift realities to defend Trump (05:35, 10:40).

Quote:
“It just is fed by, like, Newsmax 24/7. So any kind of topic that comes up…he can’t help it because he’s just being indoctrinated 24/7 by this.”
— Haley Pop, (04:40)

3. Dehumanization, Bigotry, and Personal Hurt

• Psychology of Hate:
  • The hosts discuss the painful realization that loved ones, so willing to dehumanize marginalized groups, might also turn that mentality inward toward family (05:35).
  • Chad explains a family tendency to “cut people out of their lives” if they’re perceived as adversaries, laying fertile ground for cult-like thinking (07:00).

Quote:
“They perceive everybody at a certain point as the enemy…In most cases, they just stop talking to those people…And I think just having that kind of mindset allowed the MAGA cult mentality to come in.”
— Chad (Colt Gen), (07:00)

4. Authority and Contradiction in Parenting

• Upbringing:
  • Their parents were authoritarian in some ways, liberal in others—supportive of the siblings’ artistic careers, but enforcing traditional discipline (08:21).

5. Cult-Like Flexibility: Belief Shifting on Command

• Trump’s Actions vs. Principles:
  • The parents’ staunch anti-war stance flipped instantly when Trump engaged in war actions—even justifying contradictions as needed (09:03–10:46).
• Host’s Observations:
  • Jennifer recognizes that MAGA identity is about winning, not principles: “Republicans will do whatever it fucking takes to win.”

6. Exposure as an Antidote: Progress with Mom

• Trans Guest Appearance:
  • A pivotal episode featured trans activist Peppermint, prompting visible empathy and an apparent shift in the mother’s views on trans rights (15:23–17:44).
• Method:
  • Personal experience and exposure—rather than heated debates—proved most effective in changing hearts.

Quote:
“I think that her perspective…is completely shifted. That personal interaction and experience is 100% what it took for her.”
— Haley Pop, (16:57)

7. Unexpected Bonds: Hassan Piker and MAGA Parents

• Hassan Piker Visit:
  • Despite being a progressive commentator often vilified by the right, Hassan charmed the parents, illustrating how “adversary” can flip if the approach is personal and humorous (20:11–22:21).
• Notable Moment:
  • The mother now follows Hassan’s streams and cherishes the merch gifted by him (“the crown jewel”), further disarming their adversarial stance (22:43–23:16).

8. Hypocrisy and Selective Outrage

• Discussing Oklahoma’s Education Superintendent:
  • Ryan Walters’s performative Christianity and subsequent divorce highlight the selective outrage and forgiving of MAGA figureheads’ hypocrisy—so long as they “win” (24:00–27:27).
• Trump Excuses:
  • The family will excuse anything in Trump’s record, from sexual assault allegations to the “locker room talk” scandal (27:55–28:17).

9. What Happens After Trump?

• The End of MAGA?:
  • Haley and Chad believe the movement’s power is tied to Trump’s unique personality cult. Without him, “MAGA is over” because there’s no appetite to follow his potential successors like J.D. Vance (28:48–29:10).
• Martyrdom Theory:
  • Chad speculates that if Trump dies, the movement needs a martyr narrative to maintain energy—otherwise, it will wither (29:10–31:11).

Quote:
“He cannot die in his sleep. He’s got to be martyred…that death cannot be by natural causes, must be a martyred kind of assassination thing so they can turn blame back on…liberals.”
— Chad (Colt Gen), (31:11)

10. Podcast as Family Therapy

• Improved Relationship:
  • The podcast is a “release valve,” providing a safe space to get heated about politics but allowing for repaired everyday relationships (33:40–35:39).

Quote:
“All the things that used to stop us from talking, we get all that out in an hour a week…It has gotten us into a rhythm as a family in terms of how we communicate…”
— Chad (Colt Gen), (34:34)

11. Internet Fame and Empathy

• Parents’ Response to Fame:
  • The mother enjoys the minor celebrity status from the podcast’s popularity, celebrating milestones and interacting with fans. The father, though polarizing, received well wishes from the liberal audience during a health scare, which surprised Haley (35:39–37:18).

12. Updates & Final Reflections

• Father’s Health:
  • Haley shares the dramatic story of their dad’s recent medical crisis and ongoing recovery (“zombie dad is back”), maintaining humor despite stress (38:54–40:42).
• Compliments to the Parents:
  • Host Jennifer notes, despite political chasms, the parents raised “such open-minded, critically-thinking adults” (41:06).
• On Changing Minds:
  • Haley and Chad believe exposure and empathy can open minds (especially their mom’s), though some may be “cooked” in their views.
• The Fate of MAGA:
  • They predict MAGA’s power will die with Trump, as no one else has his “juice” (42:02–43:10).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On cult mentality:
  • “I think MAGA is a cult. I think my parents are rooted in it, especially my dad.” – Haley Pop (04:40)
• On shifting beliefs:
  • “Now he’s done it. Well, things change.” – Chad on his mom justifying Trump’s war (09:23)
• On empathy and exposure:
  • “Trans people are just f#cking people, you know?” – Haley Pop (16:57)
• On the MAGA death spiral:
  • “Once that cult of personality is gone, it ends. They are not following J.D. Vance into the fire. He’s a potato.” – Haley Pop (28:17)
• On internet fame:
  • “Our mom… has always kind of wanted to be famous… so now she’s getting that a little bit, which is cool.” – Chad (35:48)
• On podcast as therapy:
  • “I treat it like a sport almost. You leave that all on the field … but at the end of the day, I can now call my mother and talk to her about life events and we don’t talk politics at all.” – Haley (33:44)
• On hope for change:
  • “If you can crack into that a little bit with somebody else … it does a world of good, I think, for my mom.” – Chad (42:02)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:51 – Origins of The Necessary Conversation podcast
• 03:14 – Clip: Parents discuss the Pope; analysis of media indoctrination
• 05:35 – Questioning parental capacity for dehumanization
• 09:03 – Clip: Parents justify Trump’s war with Iran
• 15:23 – Clip: Discussion with Peppermint on trans rights
• 20:11 – Clip: Parents rave about progressive streamer Hassan Piker
• 24:00 – Oklahoma political hypocrisy, “family-values” scandals
• 28:48 – What happens to MAGA when Trump is gone
• 33:40 – The podcast’s positive impact on sibling-parent relationships
• 38:54 – Dramatic update on father’s health crisis
• 41:06 – Host’s reflection on the parents’ success as critical parents

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Conclusion

This episode is a candid, moving, and darkly funny portrait of ideological indoctrination’s impact on family life in red America—and the hard, hopeful labor of empathy and exposure. It’s rich with insight for anyone grappling with divides (personal or political) and ultimately offers a blueprint for dialogue in “unwinnable” situations.

Listen for:

• How “winning” outstrips principle in cult dynamics
• The subtle, cumulative power of personal exposure over time
• The importance (and difficulty) of holding onto empathy—across the divide

Recommendation:
If you want to hear more, follow The Necessary Conversation on your favorite podcast platform or YouTube.

Transcript

[Host]

Foreigning me today on ihip News are the quote lib sibs of the Necessary Conversation podcast where they duke it out with their MAGA parents. Let's welcome chat. Colt Gen. Is it Colt Gen or Colt Gin?

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

However you like. Both are good.

[Haley Pop]

However you like.

[Host]

You say it. Chad.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

We say Colton, but, you know. Yeah.

[Host]

And Haley Pop. Hayley. Your last name is so much easier than your brother.

[Haley Pop]

Yes, yes, thank you.

[Host]

So, listener, these two siblings have, like, hardcore MAGA parents and they have a podcast with their parents where you go over, like, news headlines. Right. And what all. All the fuckery Trump is doing. Tell my listeners a little bit about your podcast.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Yeah, I mean, we started it about four years ago during the kind of last half of Biden's administration. I felt like our parents were getting old. We didn't really have a relationship with them. Somewhere between Obama's kind of last year and Trump's first incoming year, we really just kind of stopped talking to them. It wasn't exactly no contact, but we would go home for like Christmas or a birthday and just sit in our living room and listen to our dad scream at us while Newsmax was kind of like echoing from the bedroom and the living room simultaneously.

[Haley Pop]

And you're like, like in 2026, it wasn't just that, like, we lost touch. Our mom, like, stopped following us on all social media.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Oh, yeah, 2016, you mean?

[Haley Pop]

Yeah, 2016. And. And it wasn't just like, oh, we're not talking. Like, it was outright. We got Napoleon. Okay, yeah, exiled.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

So I basically was like, the only thing that they will engage with is politics. So let me see. I was doing some other podcasts at the time, and I really kind of like stumbled into that as an art form. I enjoyed podcasting. So I was like, let me see if my mom would actually have an hour long convers with me about politics. And so we recorded one and then my dad was like, I don't want her to be the star of the show. What about me? And so I did an episode with him, and then I was like, I got to get my sister in here. And so the first three episodes of the show, which are audio only, were basically just about kind of the backstory of each of the three of the other people, not myself, but the political kind of backstory, how they grew up, how they became politically activated, did Trump radicalize them, you know, that type of thing. And then from that point on, we've been doing at least one episode a week talking about just the big political issues of each week. And Where MAGA sits on it, where my sister and I sit on it. And ultimately, we're trying to kind of reclaim my mom. And we're getting close. I think closer than we've ever been.

[Host]

I've seen some growth. Yeah, I've seen some growth with her. Really, really interesting. And your parents live in Oklahoma City, right?

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Yeah. Suburbs there.

[Host]

Suburb, you know, that's where I'm from. Oklahoma City.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Yeah, I know.

[Haley Pop]

Yeah.

[Host]

Did y' all grow up there?

[Haley Pop]

No, we both grew up in a suburb of Dallas, Texas. Okay. Yeah.

[Host]

All right. All right, well, I want to play for my listeners some clips from your podcast. And, Haley, I'll get your reaction to this one. Here is your dad, Haley, on the Pope. Play the clip.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Pope. He's going to hell.

[Parents (Bob and Mary Lou)]

Okay, please don't say that again. Here's what I don't like the Pope is, like, standing up for illegals, immigration, all of that, that's fine. But as a government, we don't want that border wide open to bring in drugs, bring in kids, traffic them, all of that.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Yeah. For all we know, the Pope's a half. The people in his administration are.

[Haley Pop]

So you don't care about the Epstein files, but we care about the Pope, Haley. Okay, so first things first. I don't believe my parents are actually religious. Okay. So I just gotta put that out there. All of this. All this about the Pope, like, I'm just saying it right now. They're not Catholic, they're not religious. It's all. My mom is kind of like a spiritual woman. Okay. So there's something. I know she believes in, like, a higher power. Especially now, after my dad, you know, he's in the hospital. A whole bunch of stuff happened. So she's kind of reconnecting with, like, her spirituality, but they are not Catholic. Okay? So the Pope, I'm. I'm always speechless because it's like, at first, when we started this, I did start to think, like, is my dad just a character? Is this all just bullshit? But it's not. Like, it's very real, and it's deep se. And it's, like, so rooted in him. So to hear things like, you know, the Pope is a pedophile, but we're not caring about the Epstein files. Why is that so important? You know, it's. It's anything to back up Donald Trump. And that's what it boils down to. They are, in what I perceive to be like, a cult. I think MAGA is a cult. I think my parents are rooted in it, especially my dad. And it just is fed by, like, Newsmax 24 7. And so any kind of topic that comes up. This is obviously ridiculous. You know, what comes out of his mouth, but it's almost like he can't help it because he's just being indoctrinated 247 by this, that he's being fed by the news. So we always laugh it off. You know, I can't. I can't take that seriously. But really, at its core, like, there is a sickness to. To maga.

[Host]

Let me ask you guys a personal question, Kind of a psychological question in seeing how easily it is for your parents to dehumanize people to how they were talking about illegals and just. Is there kind of a Freudian or subconscious feeling as a child that if they're so quick to hate on gay people, immigrants, black people, they could turn on us in a millisecond? Does it diminish their devotion to you as a parent, subconsciously or consciously to you guys?

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

You want to answer that?

[Haley Pop]

I mean, yeah, there. There are moments where they approach things that directly affect me or my family. And. And when I hear what they have to say about that, it. It definitely feels dehumanizing, demoralizing. You know, there's. There's a lot of misogyny going on. There's a lot of, obviously, racism. Like, it's just bigotry. So, yeah, there are things that they say that definitely, like, hurt my feelings, that hit hard. But ultimately, like, I've made this commitment, and I love my parents, and I'm like, I really feel like we're trying to pull them out of something that's, you know, much bigger, and people aren't quite understanding that this is cult mentality. Like, and that's a slow roll that is a long process to get somebody out of something that is, like, so rooted in them.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

And I would add to that, like, I mean, obviously, if you have parents like this. Well, I don't know. I mean, for me, this is how I've kind of reacted to it. I've done my own deep dives. I'm not a psychologist, but I've done my own deep dives into what I perceive their psychology to be. Why they are like this. Why were they susceptible to this cult in the first place? And I think a lot of it, for. At least for my dad, my mom, too, maybe by proxy, it has to do with just a kind of baseline adversarial worldview that they have. And you're talking about, like, are we scared that they're Going to kind of turn this ire on us at some point. And the answer is yes, because they've done it to other family members. They perceive everybody at a certain point as the enemy or the adversary or who they're competing with. And in most cases, at least for our parents specifically, they choose to just stop talking to those people. Cut them out of their lives no matter how close they are. I mean, we're talking like immediate family members, not Haley and I specifically, but, you know, brothers and sisters and whatever. And I think that just having that kind of mindset allowed the MAGA cult mentality to come in, because a lot of what Trump operates on is saying, this is your adversary. Hate this person or this group of people. And that fits just right in line with. With everything that they have already kind of been believing about the world.

[Host]

Were they authoritarian style parents

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

in some ways, but in other ways? Absolutely not. Like they were. Both my sister and I are, you know, artists in one form or another in terms of what our careers have become, what we went to school for. And they supported that, certainly. But then it was also like, you know, dad ruled with an iron fist in many ways as children. So it was strange. Like, they were very liberal about some things, but in a more traditional sense of, like, parenting technique. I think, at least with me, the older child, they were not very lenient with a lot of stuff.

[Haley Pop]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

All right, now I'm going to play a clip of your mom talking about the war in Iran fiction.

[Parents (Bob and Mary Lou)]

Within the next two weeks, this war will be done. They're very close to it being over.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Irrelevant. You saw everything I just played. You was him saying he will not get into war with Iran. How? I don't know how many clips that was in that compilation. 20, 30? He has done the exact thing he promised not to do. He did it.

[Parents (Bob and Mary Lou)]

Things change. He had to do it for our security and the security of the United States.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

In what way? How has it made us more secure?

[Parents (Bob and Mary Lou)]

We have not had a bomb hit us yet, have we?

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Did we have one before the war?

[Parents (Bob and Mary Lou)]

They were getting close, very close.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Where are you getting the information from that leads you to believe Iran was going to attack us?

[Parents (Bob and Mary Lou)]

The president himself.

[Host]

Okay, Chad, this was from early. This was from early April. And so my question is, let's say last April, would your mom have said, oh, I like President Trump because he's anti war and he's not going to take us to war with Iran?

[Haley Pop]

Yes, she did say that. Yes.

[Host]

So, okay, what's her media diet? Is it just Newsmax does she?

[Haley Pop]

Yes, that's it.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

I'm here in Oklahoma right now helping my mom with some stuff. I live in Los Angeles. It's Newsmax 24 7. And I even try to put on other stuff and not like CNN or Ms. Now, you know, I'll try to put it on something innocuous, just like, oh, here's Good Morning America or whatever. I'll leave. I'll, like, go to the bathroom or something and come back in. It's Newsmax. It's back on. Like, they cannot be away from it.

[Host]

Do they think Fox is liberal?

[Haley Pop]

Yes, yes.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

It's wild. It's crazy, too, to like, watch these clips back with any other person, you know what I mean? Because I just cut them and post them and I'm like go about my day. To watch that back is insane, actually. And part of, like, what, to me at least really exposes the idea of the cult mentality is their ability to shift on any given topic where, like I was saying, my mom used to talk about, like, Biden's going to get us into World War Three. He's going to go to war with Iran. That'll be the end of all humanity. And she would always tout Trump as being the guy who won't do that. Now he's done it. Well, things change. Or my dad, for example, kind of famously, I've stopped keeping track of this, but when the war in Ukraine started, he made a prediction that a nuclear weapon would be used in Ukraine within 30 days. I don't. It's been years since that prediction, you know, and he still maintains he's not wrong. Yeah, like, they can't kind of reconcile reality in terms of any of this stuff.

[Host]

Pre Trump, was there, this level. Were they real into George W. Bush and like the Tea Party?

[Haley Pop]

No, not at all.

[Host]

Trump unlocked it.

[Haley Pop]

Yes, 100%.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Well, I would say Obama unlocked it.

[Haley Pop]

Her dad, anyway. Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

So your dad's like a default setting of a racist.

[Haley Pop]

Yes, 100%.

[Host]

So seeing a black man eat off the China, wear that tan suit, sleep in the bed in the White House, girl.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. That kind of radicalized him. And, you know, whatever the opposition was going to be to Obama, whoever was going to come next in line in the Republican Party, that was going to be their guy for sure. But I think if it would have been a regular Republican politician. Regular meaning like adhering to the norms. Yeah, yeah. Mitt Romney or whoever, you know, I, I don't think it would have been this bad. But Trump, obviously, it kind of Embodies all of these, like, worst things about any political institution, let alone American. And. And they just, like, ate it up.

[Host]

Living in Oklahoma City during Obama, I could see how it was breaking people, like normal, everyday, maybe moderate, centerish Republicans. And it just kept breaking them and breaking them. And then when Trump started the racism that Obama wasn't born in America, it allowed a permission structure to otherize him. And I feel like, just like you just said, Chad, I feel like Trump gives a permission structure for everybody to cave to their worst impulses all at one time.

[Haley Pop]

Yeah, yeah. Including voting rights now, you know, like, we are literally seeing the after effect of the Supreme Court decision. And now the south is like, really starting to, you know, exhibit racism on a. On a grand scale.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Yeah.

[Haley Pop]

And, yeah. And like, we grew up here in Texas and our parents, you know, are definitely kind of a product of that. And so, you know, it's. It's terrifying to see what's happening right now. And Donald Trump just opened the door

[Host]

for all of that. Yeah, he really did.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

I think that goes back to kind of what I was saying too, about the adversarial mindset, because our mom is a little different. Like, she does still to some degree value fairness and equality in some aspects of American culture.

[Haley Pop]

Yeah.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Our dad does not. And to him, it's like, I don't give a shit. If you redraw the districts, does that mean we win? Then do it. That's all that matters is the way.

[Host]

And that's the thing right there that my husband always says. My husband's from Hugo, Oklahoma, which is down in the southeast corner of Oklahoma. He's a criminal defense attorney now, but he always says Republicans will say we'll do whatever it fucking takes to win. And the Democrats are like, well, you know, right. We need to wait and investigate. Merrick Garland, who I think totally fucked us. We need to wait and investigate and pause on this thing and move forward. Your mom showed some empathy to a guest you had on recently, a friend of mine, Peppermint. And nobody has been as marginalized, but black people have been completely scapegoated big time. Then they moved on to immigrants, and then the past campaign, they really moved on to trans people. And I see and hear people in the Democratic Party saying, we can't talk about that. And that makes me think, oh, my God, we really have to protect these people. If people within the Democratic Party want to throw these people under the bus, fuck that. We really need to stand with the trans community. And I just think it's so Brilliant. That y' all had Peppermint on. And here's a clip of your mom asking Peppermint about trans people in sports. Let's play the clip.

[Parents (Bob and Mary Lou)]

So if you were born biologically a man or a boy, don't you feel that, you know, you're.

[Host]

You're strong?

[Parents (Bob and Mary Lou)]

Are you stronger than most females? You know, that's the part where I kind of go down a rabbit hole and go. I don't under. You know, I think boys should play boys sports, girls should play girl sports. But then if you. What do you call it? Where you. You know, you've gone from a boy to a girl. Right? Am I doing this right? I have no idea.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Yeah. Yes, I'm with you. I'm following you.

[Host]

You hear?

[Parents (Bob and Mary Lou)]

Kind of why I'm saying so now. I don't know. Do you play boys sports or do you play girl sports?

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Listen, I think all sports should be immediately outlawed. I hate sports. Illegal. That's a hardcore take. You all wanna. You all wanna cry about sports? How about no sports for anybody?

[Host]

All right, Haley, I've watched a lot of this interview, and I could tell that your mom really wanted to show empathy and humanity to her. And Peppermint was talking about getting bullied in the 80s for being an effeminate little boy before this issue was such a. A hotbed. And I could tell that it kind of pained your mother a little bit after this or during this. Did she move on this issue at all?

[Haley Pop]

I think she did. I think, unfortunately, for our parents, to experience something personally is what it takes, you know, in order to feel empathy for another person. They must know them, experience them, and. And it's an unfortunate. That I think has existed their entire lives. But I'm thankful. I'm thankful that Peppermint came on. My mom got to meet her, and I think it really opened her eyes that trans people are just fucking people, you know? And I think that it really, like, sunk in, like, oh, okay, Peppermint's just a woman and we're talking, and, you know, it really kind of, I think, clicked in that moment. So I would like to think that her perspective, trans people, is completely shifted. That personal interaction and experience is 100 what it took for her.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Yeah. Even now, like, I was just having a conversation with her the other day, and she was like, I really liked that Peppermint. She was really nice. She was funny. Like, she's still thinking about it.

[Haley Pop]

Yes.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

And. And part of the show that we do, to some degree at least, is to try and, like, open our Parents minds in one way or another. And a lot of people are like, oh, you got to go. No contact, and blah, blah, blah. And I get it. For some people, that works. For me, it was not working. And I do feel like, unfortunately, the responsibility to kind of bridge this gap and have this conversation is on the left. The right is never going to initiate this conversation. You're never going to have the patience to have it. And so it really is up to us. And I, yeah, I can't thank Pepper. Peppermint enough for coming on and having the patience, having the conversation and kind of like hand holding our mom through these. These different issues and stuff. That was like, I think one of the best moments that we've had so far.

[Haley Pop]

Yes.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

And it.

[Haley Pop]

And it was all about, like, Peppermint's approach. You know, she's very gentle, and I will answer any questions. And it, it is definitely about the approach for our parents. If, if it's combative, they're going to, you know, like Chad said, they're adversarial. So if you come at them like an enemy, they're going to, you know, it's not going to work. But Peppermint was so kind. And yes, I'll answer whatever questions you have. Nothing offended her. And so I think just the whole exc. Was kind of a turning point for our mom.

[Host]

It was really fascinating. I encourage all my listeners to go watch that episode because you could see your mom, that there was some empathy in there. When she asked Peppermint about when she was younger, about getting bullied and how different she felt. And then that that wasn't a choice. You know, my mother told me a long time ago, I was born in Dallas but then raised in Oklahoma City. I would ask, like, why is somebody gay, Mom? Or why is somebody trans? And she's like, all you need to know is nobody in their right mind would choose to be gay or trans in the middle of the Bible Belt because they just face such an uphill battle. And Peppermint is such a great voice. I love the way she just. I hate all sports. You know, like, your mom expected her to just go hard in the paint that, that, you know, when it comes to trans athletes, that's their final, you know, pull that they really push. And the fact that she was like, I don't give a about any sports. It just diffused the whole situation. You guys went on Hassan Piker's stream.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Yes.

[Host]

With your parents, and Hassan Piker is a friend of mine. And right now, like, it seems like everybody on the ride. And then like corporate Dems, they're all like, oh my God, Hassan Piker is the worst person on the planet. Which is just ridiculous bedwetting as far as I'm concerned. But your parents really liked him a lot. Let's play this clip.

[Haley Pop]

Okay?

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Let's play that all of the attacks. We got some defenders even on the do mom, do you have ditties?

[Parents (Bob and Mary Lou)]

I'm just making sure that our friend Mr. Piker is okay. My husband loves his hat that you gave him. And I've been hooking up every day to Stream to see if maybe you forgot my address where you might be able to send me something. I hope you're okay. And if you need us to slap down that discussing Democrat Brad Schneider that's been on you recently, we can slap him down for you if you need it.

[Haley Pop]

Slap him down? Yeah.

[Parents (Bob and Mary Lou)]

He's been calling our friend Ms. Mr. Piker some bad names like anti fake and all kinds of stuff. And he's a Democrat and it's kind of bizarre. So Mr. Piker has been getting in a little trouble and if he needs Bob and I to come help, we are here and this is your invite to come back on our show.

[Haley Pop]

Because somehow Hassan Piker has become the golden child of our family.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

It's the most bizarre turn of events that has happened in the course of this entire podcast.

[Host]

You guys, that is so great. It's so good. So she said she's been hooking up to a stream. Is she getting on Twitch and listening to Hassan?

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Not Twitch. She probably goes on YouTube and watches clips and stuff. I don't think she is on Twitch or would ever understand how to do that. But in, in a similar kind of way to what Peppermint was able to do. It's like both Hassan and Peppermint are like super smart, super funny, very charming. And I think that kind of disarms our parents because they're expect the adversary. And when it's just like the smart, funny person who's like, okay, I get it, you think this and let's have some fun and have some jokes and just have a conversation, it's harder for them to maintain that adversarial mindset and be like, you, you're the enemy. I'm going to take you out.

[Haley Pop]

Yeah.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

And I, I think both Hassan and Peppermint were able to do that expertly.

[Haley Pop]

Well, they have the preconceived notion, you know, that like all Dems or all liberals are a certain way. And, and when somebody comes on that is isn't that way. They don't know how to react. You know, obviously, Hassan Piker is charismatic and he's funny and. And our parents were just, like, smitten. So much so that I gave my mother Hasan Piker merch for Mother's Day. Okay.

[Host]

Oh, my gosh. I went to the Oklahoma City Thunder Lakers game with Hassan a few nights ago, and I said, you love MAGA culture so much, don't you? He goes, I'm like Jane Goodall walking into a natural habitat just observing this shit. He goes, and I can shoot the shit with them. I love it. He absolutely loves it. And your Hassan gave your dad that big hat.

[Haley Pop]

Yeah.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

That's sitting on a table right in front of me right now. I'm staring at it.

[Haley Pop]

It's the crown jewel. Okay.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Host]

I think it's really interesting that everybody's trying to make Hasan Piker the boogeyman right now, and he has penetrated the MAGA cult to where they want to go and take out people who are criticizing him.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Yeah, it's wild. It's absolutely insane. But it's also that idea of, like, anything that the Democrats are against MAGA loves. And now it's like a super liberal political commentator in Hasan that, like, the Democrats, like you're saying, the corporate Democrats are against him because they fear what he can do in terms of overturning kind of the status quo and how things are done. And so they're against him. And so that means my parents are against them. It's. It's bizarre to me.

[Haley Pop]

Yeah.

[Host]

Do you guys ever keep track of what's going on in Oklahoma politics? And specifically, I'm talking about the former Secretary of education or superintendent of education. Walters.

[Haley Pop]

Yes.

[Host]

Okay. So Ryan, Okay, Ryan Walters, listener in Chad, was the superintendent of school in Oklahoma, and he's the one who wanted to buy all the Trump Bibles. Bought all the Trump Bibles and mandated that they be put in every school. And he also spent an inordinate amount of time in his car filming tiktoks and social media reels, talking about porn, talking about child indoctrination, talking about gay people and talking about trans people, talking about family values. So much time talking about gay and trans people that I thought, yeah, he just think about that an awful lot. Well, now Ryan Walters, the MAGA family value warrior against trans woke ideology, has filed for divorce in the state of Oklahoma. Republican Superintendent Ryan Walters mandated teaching Christian values in schools, including the obligation of marital loyalty. He is now filing for divorce. What do your parents. You're Saying that they really don't even believe in religion that much. What do they think of. Of this type of hypocrisy? How does this kind of stuff fit into their world view? Because it always seems like these MAGA people, every time I turn around, you know, like, there's this guy named Matt Schlapp who is way up in cpac. He always gets liquored up, and then he starts grabbing the testicles and penises of other Republican men. Look it up. It's juicy. And he still. Oh, yeah, okay. What do your parents think about that stuff? Have you ever told him, like, grinder crashes at, like.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Yeah, they don't care. They don't care because you've got Trump at the top of that pyramid, right, who has been convicted of sexual assaults, who is in the Epstein files more than anybody else, etc. Etc. Has cheated on every wife. I mean, came into the American political system basically with the Stormy Daniels controversy that he was cheating on his wife while she was pregnant, now paying hush money, et cetera, et cetera, grab him by the pussy.

[Host]

All that stuff, all of that.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

I was literally in this very living room that I now sit while that was going on. The October Surprise came out that year, and it was the Access Hollywood tape that we all have heard and know about. And I was standing in the kitchen with my mom, and I was like, well, this is it. There's no way she's voting for this guy. And my mom literally was like, well, that was just locker room talk. She was repeating the talking point that they were throwing out there. And I was like, oh, this is done. He's going to win. That moment for me really made it like, holy shit, he's going to actually win this. That was the first time I thought that was possible for them. They don't care about that stuff, despite saying that they're Catholic and Christian and all this shit. And that's another point to Haley's kind of theory that they are not religious at all. They aren't. They are when it's convenient in terms of their identity or when it bolsters some argument they're trying to make. But generally speaking, they do not care about any of that. Like, my dad is like, yeah, get rid of the Epstein files. I don't even want to hear that word again.

[Haley Pop]

Yeah, I think. I think mom does care a little bit. I think when you isolate her, get her away from our dad, and she's able to, like, kind of have her own opinions and. And form her own thoughts, she does care about like that. Like, she doesn't want kids being hurt. She doesn't like the idea of women being assaulted. But there's something like a stronghold that Trump has on her where he could do literally anything. Like, well, I didn't see that, you know, so I have to see it with my eyes.

[Host]

Haley, what do you think happens? I mean, Trump is practically, as far as I'm concerned, one foot in the ground. I mean, we've got this dementia. Duck.

[Haley Pop]

Yeah.

[Host]

Senile at the wazoo. He's got, like, you know, these rashes on his neck, his hands, the cankles, etc. What happens? Yeah, what happens to your mom and dad when he kicks the bucket?

[Haley Pop]

My hope is that once that cult of personality is gone, it ends. They are not following J.D. vance into the fire. Okay? He's a potato. They're not. Do they like him?

[Host]

Do they like JD by default?

[Haley Pop]

You know, like, they don't really care about J.D. vance. He's just, you know, in close proximity to Trump. So I think once he's dead, this may end. I think Ma ja is over at that point.

[Host]

Really?

[Haley Pop]

I think so, yeah.

[Host]

And so your parents were not in the Tea Party? Because I have this feeling that, like, okay, the Tea Party incubated maga, and then I'm like, what is MAGA incubating? You know, and then you see, like, the Nick Fuentes, the Tucker Carlson's this New America first. You don't see your parents, like, jumping off of the Trump chain, Trump train and then on to, like, Tucker Carlson.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

No, no, I don't think so either. It. I'll say this. I have my own theories about, you know, the assassination attempts and stuff like that. I do think there are. There are people inside the, whatever you want to call it, the MAGA Party, the Republican Party, inside the people who are, like, authoring Project 2025 and stuff. I think there are smart people that understand Trump himself embodies something that no other politician in their ranks does. He has that juice. For whatever reason, he can do this. I don't think J.D. vance. I don't think any of the other politicians can. And so I think they are aware of that, and I think they know Trump cannot die in his sleep. He's got to be martyred. And I don't know about, like, you know, these assassination attempts and shit. I'm not saying they're fake, but I'm saying for a very long time, CIA, whoever has been able to like, radicalize this person or that person and kind of just like, send them in and see what happens? And there have been a lot of assassination attempts against him, whether you think they're real or not. Like, that's a bunch in a very short amount of time.

[Host]

You know, I picture. I. This is kind of what I picture. No matter how he dies, if it's in his sleep, if he shot, whatever. Like, take your parents, for example. They are not going to accept, let's say, that he dies of a heart attack, which is totally believable. Right. We've all seen his cankles. I don't think your parents for a second are going to think that that was a legitimate heart attack. I think that's when they're going to like. And it'd be so easy to do. And I'll. I'll totally do it. Did J.D. vance inject something in him, you know, just to kind of watch them all cannibalize each other?

[Haley Pop]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host]

Because I think they're gonna just like. It's like a hit. You know, he's given them a hit, he's given them an identity, and then when he's gone, are they gonna accept that this man, who they think is invincible, who's omnipotent, potent, all of these things, are they just gonna accept that he just died of natural causes? I think there's gonna be so many conspiracy theories surrounding.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. I think they. I think the. Again, this is my own theory. I have no evidence of this. I just want to put that out there. But it seems likely to me that the people who would Engineer A project 2025 Understand the value of Trump's death in terms of forwarding what they are doing in the American political system, and that death cannot be by natural causes, cannot be in his sleep. Must be a martyred kind of assassination thing so that they can turn blame back on the wild liberal. Yeah, exactly. The left terrorists in this country, and then whoever they want to step forward into void can do it and take that momentum. It's. And I think maybe, perhaps, I don't know if this was like, orchestrated in this way, but you look at what happened with Charlie Kirk, and immediately his wife just steps right into the void. And they're like, okay, that's kind of. It's the blueprint, though, you know?

[Host]

Yeah. But I think the whole Charlie Kirk thing really has shown the American people, because there are the cultists who, you know, just buy into everything. But I think when you saw Charlie Kirk's funeral and it's this WWE thing, I think all these country club Republicans that are like Episcopalians or Methodists that look down on Bible thumpers living in Oklahoma. You know, the kind of Christians that look down on the mega church people, they're like, well, they're the trashy Christians that Christian on Christian crime. I think they, I think with that funeral and I think it's backfired. I think turning point is done. I think that shit is done. I agree with you that they tried to transfer it all to Erica, but it just, it. I mean, she's a nut.

[Haley Pop]

I mean, she's insane. Yeah, insane.

[Host]

It's absolutely insane how she has behaved. At first I felt bad for her, but then I was like, is anybody going to talk about gun control?

[Haley Pop]

Anybody.

[Host]

Does anybody give a enough about this man to talk about what killed him? That it was totally preventable? And they don't, they don't give a. About it. It's interesting that Trump is the central, focal, unifying character in your parents descent into this.

[Haley Pop]

Let's tell me about it. Yeah, it's the weirdest to witness. You know, as a kid, like, I didn't realize my parents were so easily persuaded by a sack of like, Donald Trump. Like, I thought they were smarter than this, you know. So to watch the descent has just been a wild ride.

[Host]

How's your relationship with them now that y' all are doing the podcast?

[Haley Pop]

It has opened up so many doors. I think I talk to my mom now, like almost daily. So I, I just kind of, I, I treat it like a sport almost. You leave that all on the field. You just get it all out on the podcast. There are some days where I have to go in my room for two or three hours, read a book and try to forget about what the we just did, you know, because I get heated. There are times where my dad says that I just want to like, like, what the fuck, man? So there are times, you know, where it really, it gets to me. But, but at the end of the day, like, I can now call my mother and talk to her about life events and we don't talk politics at all. So I think it has definitely kind of like, you know, mended some fences with us. And so I'm, I'm grateful for the podcast. I think it's working.

[Host]

And Chad, how about you?

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Yeah, I mean, I would say that was kind of an unintended consequence of it or outcome of it, if you want to put it that way, that we do have a better relationship with them because, like, Haley's saying all the things that used to like, stop us from Talking. We get all of that out in an hour, a week. Like, I've been back here for. Jesus, how long have I been here? A week now, almost. And Hayley was here this past weekend. She's coming back to help my mom with all this stuff the entire time I've been here. And granted, my dad is, like, in the hospital, so he's not around to, you know, put his finger on the scale. But the entire time I've been here, my mom and I haven't talked about politics one time, except when we recorded the podcast. Even though Newsmax is on and stuff like that, she's just sitting there on her iPad, you know, looking at whatever. And I think that the. It has gotten us into a rhythm as a family in terms of how we communicate that the political discourse is just in that podcast. And we can argue and yell and do whatever, but then when that's off, literally sometimes you can just be like, save it for the podcast. If that shit starts, like, you know, popping up in our regular conversations.

[Haley Pop]

Yeah.

[Host]

Do your parents like the popularity and kind of fame from the podcast? Are they enjoying that aspect of it?

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Yeah, I think so. Our mom is. I mean, I also am a TV and movie writer and stuff. And there was a point, this is some years ago, one of my books got turned into a movie, and I was on the set, and it was happening in Texas, so my parents drove down for it, and I got my mom to be an extra in that movie. You know, she's always kind of wanted to be famous, for lack of a better term. And so now she's getting that a little bit, which is cool. I had. We just hit a hundred thousand subscribers or whatever on our YouTube channel, and I had them send her the little silver plaque, you know, and I think she liked unwrapping that and all that. So that's been kind of a fun thing for her, for sure.

[Haley Pop]

I think dad, too. Like, we went to visit him in the hospital, and I told him, you know, like, I made this post on my social media page, and I didn't know what to anticipate because, you know, that my dad is obviously very polarizing. So I did not know what was going to come from that. But I was, you know, telling him, like, these people are wishing you well. You know, like, you've got to get better. They miss you on the pod. And that was. It was actually kind of eye opening for me because the consensus is that people hate our dad, but in this moment of kind of, like, medical crisis, they're all Hoping that he gets well. And I think that's also a testament to, like, you can never judge an entire, you know, group of people that you think are a certain way. Because most of my followers are. Are quite liberal leaning and they're all wishing my dad well.

[Host]

So I always say this to maggot. I don't wish them death and I don't wish them hard times. I don't want to sit down and have coffee. Now, if it was my parent like you, then that's a different situation. You want to try to salvage what you can. But to the maga person that is looking to have a Kumbaya with me, I'm not super interested. But I want them to have health care. If they have a gay child, I want their child to have equal rights. I want them to have a good life. I don't wish suffering upon them. And I think that's the fundamental difference between the left and the right. You know, there's that lack of empathy on the right where it's like the libs, the enemy from within. Trump's calling us vermin, you know, which is total Hitler shit, Nazi shit. And at the end of the day, I cannot fucking stand maga. I cannot stand it. Living in the bible belt for 51 years and watching all of it just manifest in Oklahoma. Education going from 14 to 50th, and people accepting the lies and the lower wages and the shitty lives. I don't know how to. To get them to not believe that shit, but, my God, I don't want them to suffer. I don't want to be friends, but I definitely don't want them to suffer. And so, you know, with your dad, update my audience, because I have a feeling a lot of my audience is going to go listen to your podcast now. It's called Necessary Conversations. And I do wish your dad, you know, nobody likes anybody being sick, and I know that's really stressful for you all. Update us on your dad and his prognosis, if you're comfortable. Comfortable with that.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Sure you want to do it, Haley?

[Haley Pop]

Yeah. So. Oh, okay. So I had to fly out to Boston to get my kid home from college. Upon landing, I get a text message and a voicemail from my mom that just says, your dad coded. That's all I get. So I think that my dad has died. I call my mom immediately. She's crying and says that he's in, like, this rehab facility for some deterioration in, like, two of his vertebrae. So they're trying to assist him in walking as he's in this facility, overnight his heart stops. They bring him back to life. My mother witnesses the entire thing. She watches my dad die and then be resurrected. Okay, so we've got. Yeah, so zombie dad is back. He is living. He is doing better.

[Host]

Is he still cranky?

[Haley Pop]

He's still a son of a. In fact, mom said when he came back to life, he came back swinging, quite literally. So yelling at people and throwing his arms.

[Host]

And did he have a near death experience?

[Haley Pop]

That was the first question that Chad asked.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

I was like, what do you see? Well, he claims that he can't remember or whatever, but I'm like, I'm fascinated with that kind of stuff. Yeah, it's like my, my kind of personal interest, I would say is like human consciousness, what happens when you die, etc. Etc. And so I'm, I'm just like chomping at the bit for him to remember anything or to even. I think maybe if he did have the experience again, part of this like kind of gruff exterior that he puts up, this Persona he's created, like wouldn't even allow him to address it or talk about it, but he was dead for minutes. I have to imagine he saw something.

[Haley Pop]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he's, he's still in this facility where they're trying to rehab him now. They kind of concluded that his heart is okay. We don't really know the cause of it yet, but he seems to be doing better on the mend. So we're hoping, you know, in the next couple weeks he'll be good to go.

[Host]

What is, what are your parents names?

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Bob and Mary Louise.

[Host]

Okay, Bob and Mary Lou, I have the biggest compliment for you guys. Despite us not agreeing on anything politically, I think it is a testament to each of their character that they raise such open minded, critically thinking adults. Truly I do. I think it's a testament that's inside cranky old Bob and Mary Lou, who seems to be a little slightly curious about things, that they raised such open minded critical thinkers. I really do. I think it's a real testament that there's something, there's something shining in Bob and Mary Lou. There's a maybe a central, what do we call it? Centrist? Curious. Maybe we can get them to center and then from there maybe go, go elsewhere. I know y' all aren't trying to change their political views. You're trying to. Because these aren't political views.

[Haley Pop]

This is, I mean, I, I think I am too. Yeah. I'm trying to turn, turn that around.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Yeah. I don't think we are like our dad, I think is. Is pretty much cooked, but our mom is like. Like we were talking about. She comes around every once in a while and it's just a big part of it is exposure to other people, other ideas and stuff that she just doesn't ever have right in front of her in her day to day life because her friends are like my dad, her horse, and whoever's talking to her on Newsmax. And so if you can. Can kind of like crack into that a little bit with somebody else, like Peppermint or Hassan Piker or whoever, it. It does a world of good, I think, for my mom and I. I just can't imagine, like we were talking about after Trump dies, I think Maga, unless he dies in a specific way that they can kind of like motivate people with, I think it just loses its juice. And then all of the ma. I don't know what happens to the MAGA cult. Those people who are like wearing the Trump merchant, putting on his cologne, buying his bible, wearing the golden sneakers. I don't know what happens to those people. Like, can they just revert back to being Republican? I don't know. But I just don't think that certainly the MAGA cult won't have as much political power as it does without Trump.

[Host]

I hope. I hope you're right. Haley and Chad, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm a huge fan. Listeners, please go subscribe online if you're watching on YouTube to the necessary. The Necessary Conversation. Yeah, the Necessary Conversation pod or wherever you get podcasts and you can follow each of them online. Thank you both so much for joining me. I really enjoyed it.

[Haley Pop]

Thank you.

[Chad (Colt Gen)]

Yeah, thank you for having us. We're huge fans of you as well.

[Haley Pop]

Yeah.

[Host]

Oh, I love that. All right, bye, guys.