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- [00:01]
Audible Narrator
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- [00:49]
Podcast Host
The government is shut down and all of the MAGA Republicans are running around lying to everybody and saying that the Democrats are doing it. And they're lying because what they're trying to do is take away health care from their very own supporters. And here to discuss this is Senator Chris Murphy from Connecticut. Senator, how are you today?
- [01:08]
Senator Chris Murphy
Hey, what's up, guys? Thanks for having me.
- [01:10]
Co-host
Yes, you're here.
- [01:12]
Podcast Host
How, how's it going in Washington?
- [01:15]
Senator Chris Murphy
I mean, well, I mean, listen, Republicans, as you mentioned, are so determined to get away with this thievery, right? Cutting health care for millions of Americans so that they can pass along a giant tax cut to their Mar a Lago buddies that they're willing to shut down the government. And, you know, we're on day. And this is where it starts to hurt because you're going to start to have real pain as folks don't get paychecks in a week or two. And Head Start centers start to turn away kids. But the pain, the cruelty has always been the point for these guys. It's all about making people's lives miserable, folks who are struggling so that they can enrich their corporate and billionaire buddies. So it's sad, but it's just a righteous fight. I mean, that's what it comes down to for me. So as Trump gets more sort of brazen in his illegality, as he starts to hold up funding for Democratic states and he starts to threaten to fire employees that he has no legal right to fire, you know, for me, it just makes my spine stiffen. It doesn't. It's not, it's not for me a reason to start to acquiesce because that's how bullies win. So hopefully that's what the rest of my colleagues are feeling as well.
- [02:32]
Co-host
I have something I want to tell you. I appreciate that you're one of the people in the Democratic Party that is fighting because it doesn't seem like the Democratic leadership is. But I will tell you what offends me the most about this government shutdown. And there's a ton of them. But my number one is Donald Trump is continuing with to enrich Argentina even during a government shutdown. He's going to make that happen, but yet he is cutting services for Americans. And it's gross and it is so offensive that he would rather fund Argentina because it's his buddy than American citizens.
- [03:14]
Senator Chris Murphy
Well, and it's a deeper story than that. Right? He's, he's got a political relationship with this guy in Argentina, but there's also a lot of big Wall street money invested in Argentina. And so when you bail out a country's economy, you know, some of that money ends up going into the treasury to fund, but a lot of that money goes to protect the bondholders and the investors in that country's economy. And those investors are Donald Trump's mar a lago friends. Those investors are the billionaires on Wall street who are going to get a portion of that bailout. So it's always the same story. It's always the same story. This is a kleptocracy, right? This government has nothing to do with what's best for you or me or the middle class families that live in my neighborhood in Hartford, Connecticut is just out. How can they operationalize the federal government in every possible way to make money for Trump, the Trump family and Trump's mar a lago cronies. And the Argentinian bailout is first and foremost about bailing out his billionaire friends on Wall Street.
- [04:21]
Podcast Host
All right, let's talk about the fact that he stood in front of all of the military like an unhinged, dementia ridden nut and basically declared war on blue cities. We have an American president standing in front of these career generals instructing them that there is an enemy from within and that they will need to go on American streets. And I just like this is either dementia twisted or both that this guy is declaring war on America while Vladimir Putin and Benjamin Netanyahu dog walk this m effort like it's nobody's business. But all of these generals are pulled from their posts.
- [05:05]
Senator Chris Murphy
Yeah, I mean, you saw the stone faced look on their faces. And listen, obviously none of those generals have any obligation to follow illegal or immoral orders. In fact, they have the opposite obligation if they are told to go attack or shoot at American citizens as they were during his first term, they have an obligation to say no. So this is a moral moment for everyone in this country right now. It's a moral moment for Democrats in the Senate where we have to stand up to this growing authoritarianism. We have to show the country where we stand morally right, ethically, spiritually. But it's also a moment for lots of other people, including military leaders, should they get that order to actually turn their troops or their weapons on American citizens who are just engaged in peaceful protest, to say no as well. What we know about how we defend democracies is that it becomes this collective effort. Every leader has a responsibility. Most leaders thus far have failed in that responsibility. Most of them have decided to be bullied by Donald Trump to stay out of the public fray. But all it takes is a handful of heroes for this story to turn. I hope it doesn't have to be our military leaders. I hope they never get that order, but if they do, they have a responsibility just like all the rest of us.
- [06:26]
Podcast Host
Let's talk about Russell Vote and all of the nefarious things that this guy's up. I believe that Trump. We call it lie social, not true social is now the mask is off and he's tweeted or posted on lie social. Russell vote of Project 2025. It's always this kind of rub in your shocking, shocking. Right.
- [06:49]
Senator Chris Murphy
2025 was a project of the Trump campaign and the Trump operation. Right. Where we finally revealed.
- [06:57]
Podcast Host
So what, what, what is this guy doing? It sounds like he's defunding a lot of blue states.
- [07:02]
Senator Chris Murphy
Yeah. So, I mean, they're just being absolutely brazen in what they're doing. They announced yesterday that they're cutting off funding for New York City, like $18 billion of funding. And then they're stopping a bunch of Department of Energy projects and vote put in his tweet the list of states, and it is only states represented by two Democratic senators. So they're just, like, being unapologetic in the way that they are using your taxpayer dollars, our taxpayer dollars, in order to reward loyalists. Right. You sign up with Donald Trump, you're going to get money to your state, but if you dare to politically oppose him, you're going to get money cut off. Like, this is exactly why the Founding Fathers gave the spending power to Congress, not to the president, because they had watched their king use spending power in order to compel loyalty to him. So if you sort of normalize this, if you reward it you are literally sowing the seeds of our democracy's destruction. So that's why I'll just double down on what I said before. Some of my colleagues say, well, we don't want to go into a shutdown because if we go into a shutdown, Trump will act even more illegally. Well, if that's the case, then it's even more important for us to say loud and clear, we're not going to fund a government that essentially allows him to destroy dissent, censor speech, and seize spending control. If we're conceding that he's engaged in while illegality, why would we fund a government that pays for him to act illegally? This is a moment to draw that line in the sand.
- [08:34]
Podcast Host
Do you think the Democrats in general have been a strong enough opposition party? Because the way I see it, sometimes when I see Hakeem and I call Chuck Schumer Chuckles. Sometimes when I see Hakeem and Chuckles on tv, I want to get a brick and just bang it on my head because I feel like we play. We're playing two different games here. They are playing the, yeah, we thought you were going to give us more resistance, and you're not. So we're going to keep going. We don't give a what you think. We're going to rule like we have a mandate. We're going to rule like every American likes us. And I feel like the Democrats play the Merrick Garland game, and until we get dirty and we get tough and we start playing you politics instead of integrity politics, they're going to keep taking and taking and taking. And I'm gravely concerned with all of these conversations about putting the military in the streets. I believe J. Reed Pritzker when he says that Trump is doing that to intimidate people at the midterms because these people can't win at the ballot box. And here's my biggest fear, all right? Trump is 85 million years old, clearly in bad health. Biology is going to catch up with him. J.D. vance, that failed drag queen, cannot win a general election. So their best bet is for it to get transferred over to him. And he's a lot more ambitious and a lot more diabolical than Trump is. Trump is intellectually lazy and he has his vanity projects. So what is your take on, number one, the fight that Democrats need to put up right now? Because you've been one of my top go to. I'm like, yeah, him. I like what he's saying. And number two, this hypothesis that I've floated that they're playing A long term game here.
- [10:21]
Senator Chris Murphy
Well, listen, I just think that we have very few leverage moments as a minority. And when you have one of those leverage moments, it is an opportunity for you to show people what you stand for. I think there's a lot of folks in this country who sort of believe the threat to the democracy is not as grave as you and I believe it is because if it was, then Democrats would engage in more risk taking than they have been. And so this is a moment to say, listen, we know, know that a shutdown hurts, but what hurts in the long term, much more is for our entire democracy to disappear and a handful of moneyed mar a lago oligarchs to take over our country. And so, yeah, we're going to sort of draw a line in the sand right now and say we're willing to fight, right, in order to make sure that we only fund a government that is for the people rather than a government that is funding the destruction of free speech in this country. And people want to see that fight, they're willing to go with us if we show principles. If we show principles, even if that fight involves some difficulty for, for folks. I think the other thing we need to do is to just fundamentally change the way that we operate politically. So I have stopped raising money for my own political campaigns and I now raise money only for mobilization and protest. So I've put about a million dollars out onto the street to groups all over the country I just sent $100,000 to because, like what, what's the good of me having a whole bunch of money in the bank for a future election if there isn't a future election? And so if we really want to be in the fight, then we, we have to fund the fight. And so I would love for more of my colleagues to take some of the money that they have that they're saving for their next election and give it to protest groups, give it to citizen led organizations to be able to make sure that we don't allow his attempt to bully us into submission to succeed. So those are my two main recommendations. As for their like plan with Vance and Trump, I don't, I don't, I don't know. I agree with you that Vance is not, is not electable, but I mean they're just going to succeed one way or the other if we don't have millions of people out there on the streets. And so fighting fights and using the shutdown as a way to convince people that we stand for something and then funding the fight are, I think the two biggest imperatives.
- [12:53]
Co-host
I think that's, that's very well said. Okay. The ice, the ICE thing to me is out of control. I pick up my phone and day after day after day, you know, journalists are being hospitalized. People that are lawfully going through the immigration steps are arrested at these courts. Kristi Noem is so far out of control. But then you hear it. Stephen Miller, really, which that doesn't surprise me. How can we bring this ICE thing back? Because you look at the polling.
- [13:23]
Podcast Host
Immigrate.
- [13:24]
Co-host
Donald Trump on immigration is underwater. People don't like to see other people dehumanized like it is. So moving forward, what are steps that hopefully the Senate can take to fight back against this?
- [13:38]
Senator Chris Murphy
Yeah, he has gone too far. Right? I mean, listen, people were rightfully very upset about a border that seemed to be out of control. Right. I mean, people don't like the idea that you can, can come into this country and even if you don't qualify for American citizenship, stay here for five, 10 years before your case is heard. And it looked like for a long time Democrats were defending that very broken system, but they definitely don't like what's going on right now. They know that a lot of these folks are members of our community, have committed no crime or no danger, and they don't want to see them treated like animals. But for Democrats to have legitimacy on this broad issue, we have to show that we're serious about changing the rules and we're serious about creating a border that is not porous, that has rules, that has security. So that's where I think Democrats have to start. Explain how we would secure the border, explain how we would fundamentally change the immigration system. So we decide whether you can come or not come at the border instead of 10 years later in the interior. And I think if we have credibility on that, then it's, then I think people are going to flood to us because that's what they want. They want a compassionate immigration system that doesn't treat immigrants like animals, but they also want rules at the border. And for the Democratic Party, for far too long, we seem to sort of only care about how immigrants were treated. On the interior, we didn't seem to really care about the border, and folks care about both things.
- [15:09]
Podcast Host
But both Obama and Biden were big deporters. I mean, there was, there was a lot of deportation, legal deportation done under Democrats. I think what always happens with the Democrats is we are terrible marketers, Terrible. Donald Trump is in a perma campaign all the time. He's running a reality TV show. And I mean, you've heard him.
- [15:33]
Co-host
He.
- [15:34]
Podcast Host
He's such a nut. The. That comes out of his mouth talking about he's into aesthetic boats. I don't know if you saw that about stealth technology. Just a jet stream of. From this guy all the time.
- [15:45]
Senator Chris Murphy
Med beds, these o. Yeah, you know what? The cabal of elites have been hiding this transformational technology from people. It's just so fucking bizarre.
- [15:55]
Podcast Host
It's so crazy. But the Democrats, it seems like when we are in power, we have to learn to also promote the legislation that is being passed. Because of course, Biden passes this infrastructure stuff. And Trump's rolled in and he's putting his name on it and just rolling through. He's claiming the insulin all. All of his. Because the democr do a terrible job at branding and marketing. And I want one final question with you. And this is my question. As a lifelong Democrat, I always felt like we were the party of progress and like going forward and adapting. Currently, it feels like the Democratic establishment is like this conservative party that's like grinding to a halt and is not progressing forward, is not willing to say, you know what? We always did take APAC money. And with all this that BB's up to, that's kind of up, we're out on that. Like, we, we. We're hearing the American citizens. We hear what you're saying. We're seeing what you're seeing on social media and elsewhere, even Israeli human rights organizations. We've read those reports as well. And we're evolving and we're listening. But it feels like the Democratic Party is all of a sudden a conservative party, conserving this backwards politics instead of progressing forward. The last time you were loved about you is you said, you know, I used to think Bernie was, you know, kind of too far to the left, but now I'm more and more liking a lot of the stuff that he says.
- [17:29]
Senator Chris Murphy
You're mainstream, right? Yes, yes, he's mainstream. So you are. You are like on to the. Maybe the most important thing, which is we became the party of status quo. And frankly, what Trump is showing since he's been in government is the government is actually not sclerotic. Right. He's moving things fucking fast in a really dangerous direction. But he's showing people that things can change inside government really quickly. Like, we didn't think you could destroy USAID overnight. He did it right? So why can't American policy move in a positive direction much more quickly? We have become addicted as a party to incrementalism. We labored under this belief for a really long time that sort of marginal changes in the marketplace, tweaking incentives this way or that way, was going to ultimately sort of help people lead more fulfilling lives. That's just not true. It was sort of a myth, a lie foisted upon us by the billionaire class who didn't really want fundamental changes in the nature of power. If we're going to be credible as a party, and this is where we need to learn from Bernie and from Zoron, we need to be a party of big ideas, right? Not like changing the way that Medicare negotiates 10 drug prices, capping the price of every single drug in this country. Not a $15 minimum wage, a $25 minimum wage, not more disclosure in the campaign finance system. A constitutional amendment to get private money completely out of politics. No billionaire money, no lobbyist money, no anonymous money. We've got to be for big, simple ideas that are as big as the problems people are facing. And, yeah, it'll attract a lot of hostility from the owner class, from the billionaire class, but frankly, that'll be our legitimacy, right? That ultimately be a calling card for us, that people. That there are really powerful people who hate our ideas that actually will drive people to our party. But for a long time, we got convinced that, hey, we kind of have to keep everybody happy, right? We want to propose things that are good for poor people, but not so spicy that it makes the rich people really angry. Fuck that. Like. Like people. There are people in this country who have way too much power. And it's okay for us to talk transparently about how we're going to take power from people who have too much of it and deliver power to people who have too little of it.
- [19:59]
Podcast Host
What do you think about this APAC thing? It's real toxic right now with the base, with the voters. Like, I didn't know what AIPAC was until fairly recently. And then when you at the Democratic leadership that has a hard time endorsing Zoran Mamdani, I mean, who is a star in our party right now, and maybe he's a little bit further to the left than Hakeem or Chuckles, but who gives a shit? He. He won. He won decisively. And then when I look at the people who I'm like, why aren't they fighting hard enough? They all have this one thing in common, and it is this APAC money. And it really deeply is disturbing the base quite a lot. And everybody's eyes have been open. Benjamin Netanyahu is a total piece of shit war Criminal. I mean, bribery. I mean, he's a total MAGA style politician over there. This guy's a complete piece of shit. But everybody feels like, oh, you can't speak out about Israeli aggression or you're going to be called an anti Semite, which was total as well. So what is your take on this? Because I feel like we need Democratic leadership because the base is spiraling about this stuff right now.
- [21:04]
Senator Chris Murphy
Yeah, well, I mean, APAC runs ads against me in my, in my state.
- [21:10]
Podcast Host
That's a badge of honor. Yeah, no, Ken is the badge of honor, Senator.
- [21:14]
Senator Chris Murphy
But so what you need to show people is your moral core, Right? And people have questions about the Democratic Party's moral core right now. This shutdown is a way for us to tell folks what we care about deep inside. Right? Not bankrupting people because of spiraling health care costs, protecting our democracy. Gun violence was always a way for us to tell people about what was in our moral core. Even if you, frankly, you know, even, even if not everybody in your, in your district agreed that you should ban assault weapons, they appreciated the fact that you were outraged. Outraged by what was happening to our kids. And what's happening in Gaza just does not feel or look right to anybody, even folks who are paying casual attention. And so when you try to play the sort of middle on this one, it just doesn't feel right to people who fundamentally don't want US resources being provided to a war that's killing tens of thousands of civilians. So I just think you have to sort of lead with what you believe inside. And if you believe that the way Israel is conducting the war is immoral, and that's what I believe, then you have to say it and not worry about, you know, I think we've just done way too much as a party of trying to be far too careful, navigating that middle ground to keep everybody happy. Just Donald Trump showed us just say what you think. The he thinks is dangerous and divisive. But unfortunately he gets credit from the American people for saying what he thinks. And our party, which is so addicted to poll tested messaging.
- [23:03]
Podcast Host
Yeah.
- [23:04]
Senator Chris Murphy
Would be much better off just, just, just telling.
- [23:07]
Podcast Host
Yeah, I call it pick me politics. Like when we first started this pod, somebody with our podcasting company said, you ladies shouldn't talk about politics. And I thought, you know, this guy, you know, like, I don't want everybody to like me and what. He would never say that to a man. Why can't we talk about politics? And I think that's the thing with Democrats. When you're playing Pick me. When you try to make everybody like.
- [23:32]
Co-host
You, nobody likes you, nobody likes you.
- [23:34]
Senator Chris Murphy
It's almost a calling card today. It's almost a requirement that you have, have some view that is out of the mainstream. Because everybody has a view that's out of the mainstream. Everybody in your life has like one or two views that are a little radical, right? So if you're a political figure and every single one of your ideas is inside the 45 yard lines, you look like a robot. You don't look sincere. So part of the reason that Zorin is so popular is because, yeah, people don't agree with everything he stands for. I don't agree with everything he stands for. But you definitely know that that's the real guy, right? And like that's what people want to know that if I'm going to put you in charge, I want you to be real, I want you to be sincere. And part of the way you show sincerity is by having some ideas that you believe in that are maybe not super pole tested ideas.
- [24:25]
Podcast Host
We interviewed him in person in New York and he's really magnificent. And he said about that, he said, you know, if you agree with me on 8 out of 10 issues, this was a quote from I think former Mayor LaGuardia and it was, if you agree with a politician on eight out of 10 issues, that's good enough to vote for him. If you agree with him on 10 out of 10 issues, you're in a cult. And so I think that this is kind of a really good quote moving forward for the Democratic Party because again, I just feel like this party of progress, like, you know, Obama, we did all of these things and now I feel like it's just this grinding and I'm like, like, oh my God, are we conservative? You know, it's just horrible. And I just want to thank you so much for coming on. Our listeners love you. I personally like when I need to know that there are people in Washington that get it, that are fighting, I go and look at your tweets and it provides like therapy for me that I know I'm not a crazy person.
- [25:22]
Senator Chris Murphy
Those tweets are therapy for me too. So, you know, join the club.
- [25:26]
Podcast Host
So we just thank you so much for coming on and we appreciate all the hard work you're doing and most importantly, I appreciate that you aren't a stagnant politician, that you're open to the evolution of thought and progress because that's what our party should encompass. Right? There is an open minded, open mindedness that allows us to always evolve.
- [25:46]
Senator Chris Murphy
Awesome, guys. It's always great to be with you. Thanks for what you do too.
- [25:50]
Podcast Host
Bye. Bye.