← Imagine Heaven Podcast with John Burke
Imagine Heaven Podcast with John Burke
20 Near Death Experience Commonalities that Align with the Bible
01:21:21
What do near death experiences (NDEs) from people around the world have in common, and how do they align with what’s written in the Bible? In this video, we explore 20 near-death experience commonalities I've found after studying close to 1500 NDEs....
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- [00:00]
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- [01:24]
John Burke
I'm going to let you hear from several near death experience people that I have interviewed. Together they make up most of the elements of a full blown near death experience. I'll pause along the way to explain the commonalities and how they align with the Bible so that you can see it for yourself. I'm John Burke, author of the New York Times bestselling book Imagine Heaven and Imagine the God of Heaven and this is the Imagine Heaven podcast.
- [01:53]
Dr. Neal
Well Dr. Neal, thanks for being here with us. You had a pretty amazing experience while kayaking on a river in Chile. Your kayak got lodged in some boulders and you were underwater how many minutes?
- [02:07]
Near Death Experience Survivor
The people who resuscitated me would say I was underwater 30 minutes.
- [02:11]
John Burke
Wow.
- [02:12]
Dr. Neal
Talk us through that day. What happened?
- [02:14]
Near Death Experience Survivor
I went over a waterfall that had a tremendous volume and a lot of current and as my boat rocketed down the front end became stuck or pinned in the rocks underwater and the boat and I were immediately and completely submerged under about 8 or 10ft of water and I very quickly knew that I was likely going to die and at that point I completely surrendered the outcome to God's will. And the moment I asked that God's will be done, I was immediately and very physically held by Christ and reassured that everything would be fine.
- [02:59]
Dr. Neal
How did you know it was Jesus holding you?
- [03:02]
Near Death Experience Survivor
It's an absolute, pure knowledge. It would be as though I saw my husband in the grocery store and I knew it was my husband. I don't have to ask if it's my husband. I knew that it was Christ told me. And it was a very pure, absolute knowledge. And that was one of the first very profound aspects of this experience for me because I knew that I didn't deserve to be held by Christ. I certainly didn't deserve his love or his reassurance. But that's the beauty of it. None of us actually deserve God's love.
- [03:41]
John Burke
Welcome to the Imagine Heaven podcast where we explore near death experiences, the Bible, the commonalities and the controversies, and how it can help us be the best version of ourselves. Today I came at this whole topic as a skeptic. I believed that Jesus was probably just a legend. God, I mean, who could possibly know? And near death experiences actually opened my mind to begin to search. What I found was overwhelming evidence not only for the truthfulness of near death experiences and what they point to, the reality of a life to come, but also how they align with what God has been revealing throughout history. Now I understand agnostic skeptics and I addressed some of their concerns in our last episode. In this episode, I want to address some of the Christian skeptics, because I was one of those as well.
- [04:41]
Skeptic Commentator
What about all the people who claim to have died and gone to heaven? What are near death experiences anyway? It's time to unlearn the lies. God has given us his word. And if we will not listen to Moses and the prophets, then why would he send someone back to write a New York Times bestseller about heaven? We shouldn't listen to fanciful tales from people who claim to have gone to heaven because they are not compatible with the word of God.
- [05:04]
John Burke
You know, many YouTube preachers and theologians are out there saying that near death experiences contradict or go against what the Bible teaches. Like Lex, who you just heard from. And now I need to be honest, I don't know Lex. I haven't watched his channel. I don't know anything about him. We might agree on more than we disagree on. I don't really know. But what I find is that Lex and some other Christian pastors and theologians who say things like this really haven't taken the time to look at the connections and the commonalities like we're going to do today. Over my years of study, I've traced about 40 commonalities of what near death experiencers commonly report that overlap with the claims of the Bible. And as I said, that goes across about 1500 near death experiences that I've studied. But there are millions out there. According to the Gallup poll and other research, not all near death experiences report all the same elements. Each one is unique in many ways, and yet they have these common percentage of overlapping elements. For instance, about 57% of near death experiencers say they encounter deceased relatives. On the other side, about 48% encounter this same God of light and love. 32% have have a life review in this God's presence. This is actually one of the things that convinced me of the veracity or the truthfulness of these claims. Because if these experiences are really just brain based, then why don't all human brains produce pretty much the same experience? You know, why wouldn't 100% of humans encounter deceased relatives? If this is just a brain thing easing our passing, you know, why? Why wouldn't 100% encounter a life review? And how do you explain people encountering this God of light and love when they had no cultural understanding that would have been in their brain? There's something to this that's beyond just brain based, but this also points out something important, the difference between what near death experiencers report versus how they interpret what they report. For instance, someone might only have four of the, say, 40 or so commonalities that I've traced of near death experiences. They may leave their body, they feel peace, they feel more alive than ever before, they can see and report what's happening in the operating room and boom, they're back in their body. They can report these things, but then they can interpret that pretty much any way their worldview would want them to. You know, if they're an atheist, they could say, well, look, I felt great, it was all good. You know, atheists go to heaven, it's all, you know, it doesn't matter what you think or what you believe or what you do. And so what we have to understand is we have to look at what people report, not necessarily how they interpret what they report. And I find that that is one of the things that many Christians misunderstand is they hear what people are interpreting out on YouTube or when they report their near death experience. And they're not taking the time to dig deeper to see that the commonalities underneath really do align with the scriptures. Today I'm going to let you hear from several near death experience people that I have interviewed who have become good friends of mine. And I'm going to let you hear most of their stories because together they make up most of the elements of a full blown near death experience. I'll pause along the way to explain the commonalities and how they align with the Bible so that you can see it for yourself. So Dr. Mary Neal, who you just heard from, is a spine surgeon. She's married to a doctor. They live together in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. Captain Dale Black is who you're also going to hear his pretty much his full story. He was a career commercial airline pilot. He also has a PhD in Aeronautical Engineering and started several multimillion dollar businesses in the aviation industry. And I tell you that because these two people have absolutely nothing to gain and a whole lot to lose by making up wild stories like you're going to hear. And yet they say nothing was more real or more important and nothing has changed their lives more than what happened.
- [09:57]
Dr. Neal
Well Dale, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us.
- [10:00]
John Burke
Let's start at that day.
- [10:03]
Dr. Neal
You were supposed to take off into a blue LA sky in a Cessna.
- [10:10]
Captain Dale Black
Well, no, but close. It was a private aircraft, but we were in a 10 passenger aircraft. We take off on Runway 1 5. The engines were at full power and the aircraft climbed up what looked semi normal to about 100, 110ft off the ground. And then for some reason we weren't climbing anymore.
- [10:32]
Dr. Neal
You could tell something was wrong, Something was wrong.
- [10:35]
Captain Dale Black
And then within a second after that something was horribly wrong. But what happened was our left wing tip, I found out later, clipped the top of several very tall trees and it just splintered them like kindling. When we hit the trees, it turned us just about 10 degrees this way. Now instead of going this way, we now started going that way. And right in front of US was a seven story tall cemetery mausoleum.
- [11:07]
Dr. Neal
That's it's 70ft high.
- [11:09]
Captain Dale Black
Yeah, yeah, it's 70ft high right to the top. Now we slammed into this at 135 miles an hour. So it just exploded open and the three pilots and everything in it just exploded, Dale.
- [11:23]
Dr. Neal
I mean, hitting 135 miles an hour into a cement wall, dropping 70ft. What do you remember about that day?
- [11:32]
Captain Dale Black
The next thing after the impact of the crash, the next thing that happened to me was was I was looking down at a airplane that had crashed. I had seen a body over here that was dead. And then there's another body over here also dead. But I knew this body really well and that was Chuck. And then there was another body inside the basically squished into the instrument panel and that was obviously me.
- [12:04]
Dr. Neal
And you could tell it was you.
- [12:05]
Captain Dale Black
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I recognized my slacks. I recognized my shirt. I recognized my hair. And I remembered that that's me. And I wasn't worried. I had a lot of questions. What the. And then I began to realize, right then it hit me. I am not my body. There's my body, but here's me.
- [12:34]
Dr. Neal
How did you feel?
- [12:36]
Captain Dale Black
I felt like I had a lot of questions, but I did not feel really worried. I didn't feel worried. I didn't feel panicky. I felt, I guess, like, wow. I mean, gee, this is wow.
- [12:51]
John Burke
But could you tell you were yourself.
- [12:52]
Dr. Neal
Did you have a body?
- [12:54]
Captain Dale Black
My body was down there.
- [12:56]
John Burke
Your physical body?
- [12:57]
Captain Dale Black
Yeah, my body was there. And I didn't notice my legs or hands or whatever, but I knew who I was, and I was the one looking down. And that's when everything started changing. And I don't know where I got this information. At least at the time, I didn't know. But I realized this, Okay, I am Dale Black. That's me. And I have a personality, and I have a mind. I have a will, and I have emotions, and that's not my body. So I'm a spirit, and I have a soul, and I live normally in that body. But now my body appears to be dead, But I never felt more alive. An ambulance arrived. Fire trucks arrived, and they put me in an ambulance, But I just knew I was to follow my body.
- [13:52]
Dr. Neal
And so you're following the ambulance. Where are you and what are you. Are you seeing Earth? The same. Is everything the same?
- [14:00]
Captain Dale Black
Right at this point, following the ambulance, I would actually go into my body and then come out of my body and still stay inside. The ambulance is happening so fast. It didn't seem like time was going fast, but yet I couldn't quite keep up with all that was happening. The next thing I know, I'm on a gurney, and the same thing happens. Racing through the hospital corridor. I'm seeing the body. I'm looking at the lights. I'm seeing the tiles. I remember this vividly. I get into the hospital ER room, apparently, and doctors and nurses start working, working on me. And, I mean, I can remember it's like somebody had taken a picture. And I just remember that, even to this day. Picture, A picture, a picture. And I still have the pictures of.
- [14:54]
Dr. Neal
What they were doing. Working on your body. So you were out of your body observing the resuscitation attempts?
- [15:00]
Captain Dale Black
Yeah, yeah, yeah. At one time I looked down and said, okay, I'm obviously dead.
- [15:08]
John Burke
So this is wild. They don't even know they're dead. And this is a commonality. They feel more alive than they ever have. You know, think about that. What you feared most, death and the cessation of life, turns out to be the opposite. It turns out to be stepping into more life, something Jesus, I believe, called abundant life. You know, it's interesting, Jesus was speaking with the religious Sadducees at one point. They were among the group of religious leaders that would ultimately turn against Jesus and have him crucified. But they didn't believe in life after death. And at one point he said to them, God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You're badly mistaken. And Jesus, on his last night on earth, he said, soon the world will no longer see me, but you will see me. Since I live, you also will, will live. Jesus talks about life that is to come. And this is what nd ears are saying. And it's a life that surpasses this life. You know, there's this passage in John 10:10 that I've taught on and quoted many times, talking about how Jesus wants us to have an abundant life, more and better life, meaning in this life. And I think that's true, but I think he meant more than that, you know, when he said the thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I've come so that they may have life and may have it abundantly. And yes, I think it is better walking with him here, but there's a lot that's still wrong here. But what indie ears tell us is that the life to come is abundantly more than this life. And we're still ourselves, as Dale alluded to, we are still we're spirit, but we have a spiritual body. You know, Dale said he realized, I'm a spirit, I have a soul. Our soul is our mind and will and emotions. I had a body, an earthly body. And interestingly, 1 Thessalonians 5:23, Paul talks about this kind of three parts of us as well. He prays, may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ comes again. You know, Paul talks about a spiritual body. And I think Paul may have actually had a near death experience himself, recorded In Acts chapter 14, when he was stoned to death in Lystra, they dragged him out of the city and left him for dead. And then he resuscitates the people around him, said he gets back up. And in 2 Corinthians 12 he talks about himself 14 years ago, whether in the body or out of the body, I don't know. God alone knows. But I was taken up to heaven. And he talks about a spiritual body. He calls it an eternal body in 2 Corinthians 5:1, where he says, for we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down, that is when we die and leave this earthly body. Paul's saying this. We'll have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself, not by human hands. We grow weary in our present bodies and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. And that's exactly what people say. It's like an upgrade to this body. For we will put on heavenly bodies. We will not be spirits without bodies. It's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. More life is what Indie ears talk about in ourselves, but with a new spiritual body that has new powers as well. And that's another commonality. Near death experiencers, sometimes they'll say, I didn't just have five senses, I had, you know, more like 50 senses or 100 senses, new senses, blended senses, eyesight that's enhanced, telescopic that can see thousands of miles, as if right up close. Communication, that's just impeccably pure. Thought to thought, heart to heart, travel, that is described different ways, sometimes gliding or flying, or sometimes with a thought in an instant. Interestingly, in 1 Corinthians 15, Paul says, Our bodies are buried in brokenness. They'll be raised in glory, they're buried in weakness, but they'll be raised in strength. But the Greek word is dunamae, from which we get dynamite. It's they'll be raised in power, these new powers. And they're buried natural human bodies, but they'll be raised spiritual bodies. So that's what Dale talks about. He's in this body, but he's following the ambulance somehow. Mary, you're going to hear her described gliding along. Others travel, just like in an instant, at the speed of thought. Now this is not unbiblical, Is it strange? Yes. You know, is it supernatural? Definitely, but it's not unbiblical. In Acts, chapter 1, verses 9, after the crucifixion, you know, Jesus, it's reported, appeared over a period of 40 days to over 500 eyewitnesses. And at one point it says they were standing there. And after he said this, Jesus was taken up before Their very eyes. And a cloud hid him from their sight. They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going. So apparently Jesus is there with them. And remember, in this new resurrected spiritual body, they could touch him, they could hug him, he could eat fish, but then he just floats up out of their sight. As they watch, a cloud hides him. And then he goes from, I guess, our dimensionality into heaven's dimensionality. So this is not unbiblical. Philip in Acts 8. 39, baptizes this Ethiopian eunuch, this. This guy who was in service of the queen of Africa. And then it says, the spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away. The eunuch never saw him again, but went on his way, rejoicing. Meanwhile, Philip found himself farther north at the town of Azotus. All this NDE stuff sounds weird, but so does the Bible many times, right? So it's not incompatible and it aligns in most ways. Another commonality that near death experiencers discuss is this unearthly peace that they feel. Dale said, I didn't feel worried. I was just like, wow. Mary will say a similar thing. I had one person who had a near death experience actually quote Philippians 4 that says the peace of God that surpasses understanding. She said, I think that must be what I was experiencing. In John 14:27, Jesus, last night on earth, he says, I'm leaving you with a gift, peace of mind and heart. And the peace I give is the. Is a gift the world cannot give, so don't be troubled or afraid. And this is an otherworldly peace that near death experiencers describe. Dean Braxton said to me the peace he felt was beyond peace. He said, all I could think of is, I fit. It was like this. Everything fits. And I'm so at peace. Karina, the woman from Columbia that I interviewed, said, it was so peaceful and I felt like I was home. It's where I belong. Now just imagine feeling that, you know, because we never fully feel at peace on Earth. We have moments of peace and then worry and anxiety come screaming in. You know, sometimes we feel like we're where we belong and we fit. And then we feel out of place again. And nothing's ever just completely right the way it's supposed to be. And yet one day it will be. God wants to give you more and more of that. Even today, as we learn to do life with God, the peace of God and that sense of we do belong, we do fit, even if not always here in this world, we fit with him. And as a result, it can give Us that peace that can help us. Just like Jesus said to not fear, to not be troubled even when circumstances are anything but peaceful. Well, another commonality that you heard Dale kind of refer to Mary will talk about as well is time. Time works differently on the other side. This also is very common. Some near death experiencers have told me there was no time, but others have said no, there was time, but there was all the time you needed, nothing was rushed. And I talk about in the book Imagine Heaven, how you know our time is on a one dimensional timeline, but if there was even a second dimension of time at each point on that timeline, we'd have another timeline going infinitely in all the time needed at each point. And so it feel like every point on our time would be all the time we needed to spend at each moment. And interestingly that's what the Bible says or seems to say as well. Peter, one of Jesus disciples in 2 Peter 3:8 says, but do not forget this one thing, dear friends, with the Lord, A day is like a thousand years and a thousand years are like a day. And near death experiencers say the same thing. And in the Bible in the book of Revelation it says all of heaven was quiet for an hour. So there's some semblance of time. And yet there's all the time that you'll ever need. Listen to how Dr. Mary Neal's experience is different from Captain Dale Black's, but overlaps as well.
- [25:32]
Near Death Experience Survivor
And I also was still me. I've been asked whether I could recognize when I was conscious and then unconscious, but for me it was being conscious and then being more conscious and more aware. And at the same time my thought balloon off to the side was watching all of this thinking, wow, this is.
- [25:53]
Dr. Neal
Really strange what's going on.
- [25:54]
Near Death Experience Survivor
Yes.
- [25:55]
Dr. Neal
So you knew you were dead?
- [25:57]
Near Death Experience Survivor
Well, I didn't at first. I was immediately greeted by a group of people, spirits, beings, welcoming committee. Yes.
- [26:06]
John Burke
What was it?
- [26:07]
Dr. Neal
That's what some people talk about talking.
- [26:07]
Near Death Experience Survivor
It was a welcoming committee. I absolutely knew that they were there to welcome me and greet me and make me feel loved and comfortable. And I also knew that they were there to protect me.
- [26:20]
Dr. Neal
Protect you from what?
- [26:21]
Near Death Experience Survivor
I don't know.
- [26:22]
Dr. Neal
But you knew that?
- [26:23]
Near Death Experience Survivor
I absolutely knew that that was part of it. Even though I don't know from what they were protecting me.
- [26:32]
Dr. Neal
I mean what's fascinating is I've heard multiple people say those exact words. They're to greet me, welcome me and protect me.
- [26:39]
Near Death Experience Survivor
Right.
- [26:40]
Dr. Neal
Like on my journey.
- [26:41]
Near Death Experience Survivor
And that I knew to be true, but at no part during my experience, did I see anything from which I needed to be protected? But perhaps they were doing a really good job.
- [26:54]
Dr. Neal
Yeah, but you. You intuitively knew that somehow.
- [26:58]
Near Death Experience Survivor
I did know that. Even the communication with these people or these beings was not like we're talking. We didn't use our mouths, but it was a very pure communication. It was just thought to thought, I suppose. But even that, it's more than that. It's almost like a pressure wave. I mean, it's almost like just this very pure communication. And it wasn't communication meaning I heard it or thought it in my brain. It was more than that.
- [27:34]
Dr. Neal
What do they look like?
- [27:35]
Near Death Experience Survivor
They had physical form like humans. Head, arms, legs. They were wearing robes of sort. But they were absolutely exploding with a pure, pure love. They were radiating a brilliance that is certainly indescribable. It's sort of translucent, pearlescent, shimmery light, a brilliance of light just exploding. And the light was not just something you would see. If you look at the sun, you see light and it's blinding. This was really a. A light born out of love. I don't know quite how else to explain it, but it was brilliant and overpowering. I mean, it permeated everything. And I could be with them, and I knew without any doubt that I had known them and loved them as long as I've existed. I knew that they knew me and loved me as long as I existed. There was some sort of shift in terms of time or dimension so that I could rejoice with them and simultaneously look back at the scene in the river. I could.
- [28:55]
Dr. Neal
And you were seeing your body being rescued.
- [28:58]
Near Death Experience Survivor
I did. I saw my body being pulled ashore. I saw the guys start cpr. And I could look at my body and recognize that that was my body, that that represented my life here, that it represented my husband, my four young children.
- [29:15]
Dr. Neal
So you still had continuity with your memories?
- [29:18]
Near Death Experience Survivor
I did. And it was only then that I looked at the river and I thought, well, I guess I'm dead. That was actually the first time that I sort of recognized that I was dead.
- [29:36]
John Burke
Because you didn't feel dead?
- [29:37]
Near Death Experience Survivor
No.
- [29:38]
Dr. Neal
What did you feel?
- [29:39]
Near Death Experience Survivor
Well, I never felt a sudden disconnect from my body. It was, some people describe, a pop or some sort of violent disconnect. And for me, it was just this very seamless transition. And I was really, really surprised. Again, I had not thought about death in the context of me and I have a great life. I had a great life. I had a husband I loved dearly. I had four children that I loved more than I can imagine loving anything. I had a great job. I had all of the reasons in the world to go back to my body. Yet I looked at my body and I knew that I had no intention of returning because in the context of God's love, I wasn't coming back. I was absolutely filled with a sense of being home, of being where I really belong, where we all really belong. It was as though I'd been on this long journey to Earth and it was a great adventure. But now I was home.
- [30:49]
John Burke
Death is defeated. You know, that's what these nd ears are testifying to. Paul said, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die, this scripture will be fulfilled. Death is swallowed up in victory. O Death, where is your victory? O Death, where is your sting? It's so cool to think about, you know, that for all those who trust God, who call on the name of God, it's just a seamless transition from this life to into more life, into abundant life, the place that finally feels like home. Just as Mary said, you know, nd ears commonly say this, and it's because we were all meant to be God's children living at home with him. That's where we are ultimately meant to be. You know, Paul says in that passage we looked at about our new bodies in 2 Corinthians 5, he says, we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord. So whether we are here in this body or away from this body, our goal is to please him, you know, while you're here on Earth, make that your goal, to please God. He's not hard to please as. As we just love him and pay attention and walk with him by faith. He says that is what. What pleases him. Because love requires faith or trust. And what God ultimately wants is your heart, your love. But you know, so many of us, we live to please people, and many times people that don't even love us. And yet no one loves you more, no one cares about you more than God. You know, Peter tells us just how much God loved you and me and every person. He said, Christ suffered for our sins once for all. Time to bring you safely home to God. There's nothing that he wouldn't do, no price he wouldn't pay to bring you and me and everyone who's willing safely home to God. Dr. Neal talked also about time and how there was a time shift, a shift in time and distance, where even though she was turns out far away at the Very gates of heaven, as we'll see. She could also see and be like zoomed up right there where her body was by the river. And Dale talked about a similar experience as we've already talked about now. Mary introduced this new commonality, this new concept called the welcoming committee. Indie ears commonly describe being welcomed, usually by family, relatives who have died before them, or friends who have gone before, even distant relatives. I think in Mary's case and Dale's, who hadn't had a lot of people that they knew die, it was probably distant relatives who were there to greet them. But in Luke 16, 9, Jesus talks about this welcoming committee. He says, use your worldly resources to benefit others and make friends. Then when your possessions are gone, they will welcome you to an eternal home. It's amazing, isn't it? You know, this welcoming committee, that's what near death experiencers call him. But that's what Jesus seems to be referring to. And imagine what a great reunion that's going to be. I mean, understanding this really changes everything. Dale met his grandparents, one that he had never known before. So imagine what that's going to be like and imagine how it changes grief on this earth. You know, when, when my dad died, I was first, I wasn't sure there was a God. I was just starting to open up to the idea. And then he died and I was like, forget you, God, you know, because of my grief, because of my pain. And I was about to just, you know, say, well, you know, if that's the way you treat me, forget it. You know, even if you do exist, I'm not following you because I was in pain. But I had a thought in that moment and the thought was, you know, if there is no God, this is all I get, is just a life of some good, but a lot of grief and pain and ultimately it all goes away and there is no redemption. There's there, there's no resolution to all the grief and all the sorrow. But if it's true that there is a God, and if it's true that there will be this great reunion, then one day it'll all be made right. One day I will be welcomed by my dad and my mom now right there in the front, and there will be, just like Mary experienced, hugging and dancing and celebration and we will still be ourselves with our memories of Earth and we will pick up where we left off and all of this on earth will change. We'll see grief in the light of life eternal. It doesn't change grief. You know, Mary, after she had this near death experience. About 10 years later, her 18 year old son was killed. And she told me, she said, I know where he is. I know what it's like. It doesn't take away grief. We all have to go through grief. But it changes the way we grieve. We have hope. There's going to be a great reunion. So what are these robes of white that this welcoming committee are usually wearing? And I'll be honest, when I was researching this and I was hearing it from many different people around the world, seeing these people in robes white, I was like, I don't want to wear a robe of white forever. That sounds horrible, right? And you won't, don't worry. In fact, Marv Besteman, a bank president that I interviewed and many other people said most of the time we wear and look just like we look and wear things today. You know, you don't always wear the same thing and you don't always wear the same thing. On the other side, Marv said he was wearing like what looked like his favorite golf outfit. And he's there at the gates of heaven and he sees people in their cultural garb, African togas, Indian saris. But sometimes people see these robes of white. Now what are they? Well, Interestingly, in Revelation 7, 9, John who saw a vision of heaven, one of Jesus disciples. He says, I saw a vast crowd, too great to count, from every nation and tribe and people and language, standing in front of the throne and before the Lamb, before Jesus, they were clothed in white robes and held palm branches in their hands. They have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb and made them white. Okay, that sounds weird, I know, but here's what this means. That what Jesus did, dying, spilling his blood to pay for our wrongs, for our sins, in order to make everyone who is willing to accept this gift of forgiveness, to make us right with God, he talks about they will be clothed in a robe of white. Now I believe this is what the Bible refers to as the robe of righteousness or of right standing with God. Isaiah 61:10 says, God has dressed me with the clothing of salvation and draped me in a robe of righteousness. I'm like a bridegroom dressed for his wedding or a bride with her jewels. Now I discovered something interesting about this robe of white. It's not actually white. I believe it's actually shining with light and love. And this is another commonality of what people say. So I discovered this hearing, you know, Indians, Americans, Australians, all these different people. And they're describing these robes, but they Talk about how they are translucent. I mean, when people see them up front, they describe them as either translucent or sometimes a robe made of light. And what I believe they are is they allow the glory of God to shine through, through us, toward others. And that's what Mary experienced. That's also what Dale will talk about experiencing, talked about that they were just exploding with this light that was palpable, that was love. And Mary said there's this, there was a celebration, they danced and they hugged and you know, all of this when I first heard it, you know, and I think, I think this happens to some Christians who haven't really studied it. It sounds so New Agey and you know, like people of light. That's not biblical, but actually I discovered it is. The Jewish prophet Daniel, who wrote in about 400 to 500 BC, says an angel told him this. This is in Daniel chapter 12. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens. And those who lead many to righteousness like the stars, forever and ever. There it is in the Old Testament Jewish prophets. But Jesus said the same thing. He said then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear. And indie ears around the world are confirming all these things with their testimonies. Maybe because Jesus day is coming soon, I don't know. But what I do know is we will share in God's glory. He promises that. And that is a commonality of what near death experiencers say. This light and this love coming through people. Indie ears experience in themselves, but they also experience sharing with one another. Now God is love. That's what John, one of Jesus disciples said. And the glory of God is this light and love and life that fills everything in heaven in Revelation 21 says the city shown with the glory of God. Okay, and then Paul tells us in Romans 8, we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. Our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. Now just think about this. You know, what could be greater than the love and the life of the source of everything we love about life. Imagine sharing in that love and that life. And that's exactly what Paul is saying. All our sufferings, all our trials, you know, they're but for a moment. But when we use them to lean into God, not to curse God and turn away from him, but instead to ask him to help us through it. It's producing something in us which I believe is expanding our, our capacity to share in the glory of God, the very love and life and light of God, that one day we will exchange, we will share with one another and you'll see there is no reward on earth. There's no amount of money, there's no power, there's no anything, no ecstasy on earth that can compare with what it feels like to share in God's glory.
- [42:48]
Captain Dale Black
I was looking at my body again and an image came that occurred and it happened in my life. It's strange, but I saw an image that flashed into my mind and it was like a little YouTube video being played for me. And I was 11 years old and I was kneeling at a church summer camp in Southern California, a place called Cedar Crest. And I had asked God to forgive.
- [43:25]
Dr. Mary Neal
Me of my sins.
- [43:26]
Captain Dale Black
I had invited Jesus into my heart as a little kid and man, I.
- [43:32]
Dr. Mary Neal
Was sincere about that decision and I remembered it and I looked at myself.
- [43:37]
Captain Dale Black
In a sense and go, wow, man, I was genuine.
- [43:41]
Dr. Neal
Are you experiencing this like as a review of your life or is it just that particular scene?
- [43:47]
Captain Dale Black
In this case it was one scene and that was the scene. There were no other scenes at that time. Nothing else happened. But boy, was it revealing because I realized that I was no longer that tender hearted kid. And I had become so selfish and so self absorbed and I felt horrible, ashamed that my life had come to this. And I was actually thinking at the moment, gosh, I'm so young to have died at 19 and look what has happened. And then all of a sudden the guilt, the shame that I was feeling started to disappear. I started feeling lighter and I started moving out of the room backwards, still looking forwards, but moving out backwards and then down the hallway and moving out backwards and then sideways and then started moving forward. And now I'm looking forward ahead of me, eyes, moving my eyes in the same direction as my movement and hard to explain, but I know you're an expert at this subject, so you'll understand this, but I started moving just very rapidly out of the hospital, out of the atmosphere, and started moving into what appeared to be outer space. That's what it looked like.
- [45:15]
Dr. Neal
So you leave your body or your spiritual body leaves the hospital, you're still seeing the environments of Earth.
- [45:26]
Captain Dale Black
Yeah, I'm looking at Earth because I'm seeing the hospital, the room, and then almost like taking off in a rocket ship and you're sitting on the nose of the rocket, you Know, not inside of a capsule, but on the nose of the rocket. And yet, if you can imagine looking forward, not backwards anymore, just everything looking forward. And I do remember seeing just lights, lots of little spheres of light. Could not determine the size, but thousands, and then perhaps hundreds of thousands and then millions.
- [46:10]
John Burke
And where were they?
- [46:11]
Captain Dale Black
They were zooming past. And I was thinking these thoughts, what is that? And I began to realize these are not planets. These aren't suns. These are angelic beings. And they're going where I just came from. And they were going, you know, toward Earth. As I was going away from Earth, of course, I still didn't know where I was going. But I realized these were angelic beings.
- [46:36]
Dr. Neal
How did you know that?
- [46:37]
Captain Dale Black
I knew it in my heart.
- [46:39]
Dr. Neal
So there's a way of knowing that.
- [46:41]
Captain Dale Black
Yeah. I began to realize that this is the way it's done, this is how it's done. Is that I would have a question and the answer would come right through my heart. Interesting. I took my mind with me, but not my brain. My brain's back on Earth, but I still have a mind.
- [46:59]
Dr. Neal
So what are you moving toward?
- [47:01]
Captain Dale Black
I'm moving toward an incredible. I began to see a small, bright, brilliant glow that got bigger and bigger and bigger. In the center of the glow was the most intense, bright, white light. But that's earthly words. Hard to put that into a better term. But my eyes were obviously completely enhanced, completely strengthened. I must have had. What do you mean? My eyes couldn't have been human. I couldn't see all of this. The brightness of the light would be so bright that it would burn and destroy. And yet the light, as bright as it was, made me only want to look more into it. And the warmth of it made me attracted to it. And it didn't burn, it didn't hurt. It was like medicine. There was life in that light. And I began to learn later more about what is in that light. And I saw that and I get closer to it and closer to it. And I knew, of course, I'm wondering, what is that light? The basic. And I knew that it was. The white was God. He was the source. I wasn't looking at some ray beam or some sun. I was looking at God, the source. And this light, the light is not God. The light is what emanates from God. And in that light, there's life in the light, there's love in that light. And they're all connected. They're intertwined. You cannot separate. It's like talking about God.
- [48:57]
Dr. Mary Neal
You can't take the Light out of.
- [48:59]
Captain Dale Black
God without taking the love and the life. You have it all. You either have all of it or you have none of it. You can reject God and go your own way and do your own thing. But when you embrace God fully, you will get his light. You will get the life and the love. And the love is transforming. But I was beginning to recognize that I'm being infused with power. Like there's some nuclear power plant on the inside of me, you know, or something. But the strength and the power is coming from the light. And that light is giving energy.
- [49:39]
Dr. Neal
And the light was within you too.
- [49:41]
Captain Dale Black
It was coming to and through me.
- [49:43]
Near Death Experience Survivor
One of the things that happened as I was being held was that my life was laid bare. And I'd never really thought about a life review other than the Hollywood version, you know, of your life flashing across the sky and feeling good about some things and not so good about other things. But we did go through a life review, and it was nothing like I would have imagined.
- [50:07]
Dr. Neal
What was the life review like?
- [50:09]
Near Death Experience Survivor
My life was laid bare for all its good and bad. And one of the things we did was look at many, many, many events throughout my life that I would have otherwise called terrible or horrible or sad or bad or tragic. And instead of looking at an event in isolation or looking at how it impacted me and my little world, I had the most remarkable experience of seeing the ripple effects of the event when seen 25, 30, 35 times removed.
- [50:46]
Dr. Neal
What do you mean? You mean one life to another?
- [50:49]
Near Death Experience Survivor
The impact an event had on, on me, on my little world, but then also on other people in the world. And looking at how an event that I would have said was bad changed me and changed others such that again and again and again I was shown that indeed it's true that beauty comes of all things. And it was really a life changing experience.
- [51:17]
Dr. Neal
You know, there's that verse that always gets quoted when bad things happen, right? God works all things together for good, for those who love him. I mean, do you almost think it was like seeing how that happens or.
- [51:32]
Near Death Experience Survivor
Yes, it was being shown very concretely again and again and again. The problem, of course, is that we don't generally have the ability to see things from a distance. We see things only from our own perspective or how perhaps we think it might affect someone else. I've had many, many people over the years approach me and say, oh boy, I heard about that kayak accident. That must have been the most horrible thing ever. But in fact, it's the greatest gift I've ever received. And it's like that for everything. We can look at events or obstacles or setbacks in our own life that happened 10 years ago. You lose a job and you're devastated, but you look back 10 years and you're so grateful because loss of that job set you up for the next opportunity. And it was remarkable to be shown so many times the truth of that verse, the truth of God's promise that there really is beauty that comes from all things.
- [52:41]
Dr. Neal
So as you're, as you're seeing your life, are you seeing all the events of your life all at once? And is Jesus commenting or what's the conversation or was there one?
- [52:55]
Near Death Experience Survivor
There's conversation, but not exactly like you and I are having. It was more of a sort of a pure communication. And I never liked to use the word telepathy because it sounds a little too out there for me. But it was this sort of immediate sense of communication. It made me understand how God can speak to each person in their own language because it wasn't using words, it was communicating on a very essential level. I don't know how else to describe it. And yes, we were talking about these events and Jesus was showing me this and saying, look at what it did. Look at how that event impacted this person. That impacted that person. That impacted that person.
- [54:01]
John Burke
You know, this Life Review that Mary talked about and Dale as well, has the most profound impact on people having near death experiences. We could do an entire podcast on it. I'm sure we will. But the Life Review is varied. Many people, because time doesn't work the same way. They re experience every moment of their life as if in an instant, but they're reliving it. And it's like this three dimensional panoramic. They're watching it there with God experiencing all their thoughts and feelings. But they're also many times able to experience how it impacted other people. The thoughts and the feelings that every act of kindness or every mean thing, how that affected other people, and even how it rippled through humanity. As Mary was talking about, she saw how God used everything for good. You know, just like it says in Romans 8, 28, that when we seek him, when we follow him, even the things that we would have said were tragic or horrible or bad, he can use for good. It doesn't mean those things were necessarily good. But the Life Review just reminds us of what Jesus said, first of all in Matthew 22 when he reiterated what God said to Moses, that, you know, he was asked what's the greatest commandment? And he said the first and Greatest commandment is to love God with all you have. But the second, he said, is like it. In other words, it can't be, you know, taken away from what it means to love God, love your neighbor as you love yourself. And then he said this, he said, do those two love God and love people, and you fulfill all the commands of Scripture. So that's what the Bible and all its commands are really about. This is consistent. Near death experiencers, whether they knew God or not, in his presence, having a life review come back saying two things. God is love. And what he cares most about is how we treat or how we love one another. Thoroughly biblical, but also what Jesus says in Matthew 25 when he said, but when the Son of man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne and all the nations will be gathered to his presence. And then the king, the Lord will say to those on his right, come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you fed me, I was thirsty, you gave me drink. I was a stranger, you invited me into your home. I was naked and you gave me clothing. I was sick and you cared for me. I was in prison and you visited me. He says, then the righteous ones will reply, lord, when we ever see you hungry and feed you, or all these other things, and the king will say, truly I tell you, when you did it for one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, in other words, the least people, you were doing it to me. So this near death experience testimony of the life review is thoroughly biblical. Now one of the things that trips up Christians and honestly caused me a lot of confusion for many years is that near death experiencers, many of them would say things like, as I'm watching this, I'm seeing all my good and all my bad. And they said, but God wasn't judging me. You know, God was not condemning me, God was loving me, he was supporting me. I was judging myself. And now some of them, in saying that will then make an interpretation and say, see, there is no judgment, we only judge ourselves. So we just have to stop judging ourselves and it's all good. Well, that's an interpretation because what the near death experience shows is that people clearly see they're good and they're bad. There is no hiding from the truth in this life. We can rationalize, we can pretend, you know, we can make excuses. But on the other side, consistently near death experiencers know there's no hiding from the truth. Now, consistently, God does love them. God is love. He can't not love the children he made even when they do wrong. And that's the difference between God and us. You know, when our children do wrong, sometimes we withdraw our love because of their behavior. Well, God is not imperfect like we are. You know, the right thing is that we never withdraw our love. We try to correct, but love is differentiated from their behavior. And so of course God loves them. He doesn't withdraw his love. Even when people do things with thought or action that are against his will, people would say, well, see, there is no judgment. So this is not the God of the Bible, but Matthew 12:36. Jesus says, I tell you that everyone will give an account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. For by your words will you be acquitted, and by your words will you be condemned. In other words, this is what the Life review, which I think is just a preview, is telling us that if we say we've done no wrong, we don't need God's forgiveness, we don't need what Jesus did for us. By our own words, we will see that we were wrong. On the other hand, by our own words of acknowledging our need for God and wanting his forgiveness, we will be acquitted. God never withdraws his love though. And by the way, this is what it says, you know, in that famous verse, John 3:16, God so loved the world he gave his only son. Whoever believes in him will never perish but have eternal life. But what it says after that, John 3:17, God sent His son into the world not to judge the world but but to save the world through him. So we shouldn't be surprised that this is exactly what near death experiencers feel from God and experience in the Life review. But the Life Review is not the judgment of God. That doesn't happen until the end of human history. That's what the Bible tells us. So this is just evidence of the truth of what Jesus said in Matthew 10:26. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed or hidden, that will not be made known. And Paul says in 1 Corinthians 4, 5, Therefore judge nothing. You know, we're not to judge, judge nothing before the appointed time. Wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. And that's what people experience in their Life Review. At that time, each will receive their praise from God. Now this is really important because people miss this. The Life Review is not just, it's not to punish all our wrongs have been forgiven if we've accepted God's forgiveness and what he's done through Christ. So this life review for the child of God is to reward. It's to receive praise from God. That's what Paul says here. For every little act of kindness, every loving thing done in order to please God and to serve humanity, it counts. And let that encourage you. Every little thing counts and nothing will be missed. And interestingly, it's angels that many near death experiencers tell us are recording all these things in books that it says in the book of Revelation will one day be opened. So our lives are being recorded by angels, I believe, because they too are learning from our experience. But angels, the encounter of angels is another commonality. Near death experiencers have. Dale talked about two angels that were actually flanking him. He didn't say it in the video here, but he did in other places as he was shooting off through the universe toward what will be heaven. But he also sees these lights moving toward him that he asks the question and this knowledge comes to him that they're angels. Now, interestingly, in the book of Acts, Peter is in prison and says, suddenly there was a bright light in the cell. What was the bright light from? An angel of the Lord stood before Peter. And so angels also apparently shine with the light of God, like in the describe that too is biblical. And then both Mary and Dale talked about this perfect communication that happens. Many call it telepathic, that has tripped Christians up in the past for some reason. But as Mary said, it's not just thought to thought, it's more than that. It's imagine being able to communicate not only all your thoughts, but all the connected thoughts and your feelings and your heart and all of it, nothing missing. And you understood that from the other and the other understood that from you. I mean, can you imagine? I want to do a whole podcast on that. Because so many of the problems that marriages face, relationships face, is that our communication is so limited and we're so impatient. We're so quick to speak and want to be understood, but so slow to try to slow down and listen and understand. The communication of heaven reminds us of that we need to be more patient with one another. But even now, this is how God speaks to us. You know, in 1 Corinthians 2:16, it says, who can know the Lord's thoughts? Who knows enough to teach him? But we understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ. Now think about this. You know, we want God to speak audibly to us. Because we think that'll be. That's more direct, but it's actually not. I mean, right now I'm trying to get my thoughts into your mind, but I'm having to use, you know, the microphone and my limited words and your ears to hear, and you're probably thinking other things. What would be way more direct is if I could put all my thoughts and feelings of what I'm trying to communicate directly into your mind. Now, you could be thinking about something else. You could say, well, that's a dumb thought and reject it. But that would be more direct communication if I could put all my thoughts and impressions into your mind directly. I can't do that. Thank God for your sake. But God can, and it is how he communicates with us. Now, many times Jesus said, whoever has ears to hear, let them hear what the Spirit says. And that's because we have to learn how to hear that, what's called a still, small voice by the prophet Isaiah in our thoughts and in our heart, and learn to respond. But that's probably another podcast in and of itself. Another commonality that Dale and Mary talked about is this complete knowledge that people say they have. Dale said, you know, he started to understand that that's the way it works. He has a question, and as soon as he has the question, the answer would come directly into his heart. Mary said the same thing, that on the threshold of this city of God, every question she ever had was answered. Now this too trips up Christians or has in the past, because near death experiencers will say, like, on the other side, I was like, God, I knew everything. I had universal knowledge. Okay, well, not so much. And Mary even pointed out, and other near death experiencers have pointed out what it was is, as soon as you have a question, the answer comes. And so in terms of all the questions we've ever had, it would feel like universal knowledge. But she said she didn't have divine knowledge. Sometimes it sounds like that's what they're saying. She said, I didn't know everything God knows, and I didn't know everything about God. But it would feel like you know everything because every question you have, as fast as you have it is answered. Dale said, though we will be learning forever more and more about God, the knowledge of God is endless. But it is interesting. First Corinthians 13:12 says, all that I know now, this is Paul speaking, is partial and incomplete. But then I will know everything completely, just as God knows me completely. So again, even this sense of knowing every question, every answer to every Question is biblical. And isn't that encouraging too? Because to think that there will be a day when all of these confusing questions, all these whys, why God? You know, I've asked my, my fair share of why God? And there have been many things that I've been very confused about. But when you realize that one day these questions that haunt us will find answer, they will be resolved. That can give us a sense of patience, of endurance, of trusting God, even when we don't understand. The day that we live together in God's world, our exploration and our learning, it will be awesome and it will be endless.
- [68:01]
Dr. Neal
So in your book you describe flying into is it the new Jerusalem?
- [68:07]
John Burke
What is it?
- [68:08]
Dr. Neal
And describe the beauty and what you saw.
- [68:11]
Captain Dale Black
I get this incredible airborne view, a descending, slowing down, airborne view of the city of gold. And it's city, it's a city that's wall. Over the city were majestic mountains that were as gorgeous as any that could be ever seen. However, they did not look that different than Earth. I wasn't disappointed by that. I'm not saying that inside the city I could see. We'll start from foreground to back if you like. I could see the townships as I call them, homes that people lived in, homes that were likely to be created for the people of heaven. There were small, what we would call like condos here. There were single family residences that we would call here. There were huge palaces. And I could see that. But.
- [69:13]
Dr. Neal
And this is all inside the wall.
- [69:15]
Captain Dale Black
On the other side of the wall I saw none of this.
- [69:17]
Dr. Neal
And how, how big is this city? I mean, can you tell?
- [69:20]
Captain Dale Black
I could not tell other than it was beyond the horizon both directions. There's countryside inside, so it's gorgeous, beautiful, all of the adjectives times a thousand.
- [69:34]
Dr. Neal
So you live in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, one of the most beautiful places on earth. How did that compare to this beautiful path leading to heaven?
- [69:45]
Near Death Experience Survivor
One of the problems that I and most people had when they came back from a near death experience is that even the most intense beauty here on earth, even the most intense love here on earth is very, very pale in comparison to the intensity of the love and to the intensity of the beauty in God's world. Everything was far more intense than the colors were beyond anything we could ever experience. And I will say that I was able to see many again, people, angels, very busy. And I don't know what they were doing inside the archives. Inside they were all very busy. I don't know what they were doing, but they were doing something and clearly doing God's work.
- [70:35]
John Burke
You know, I don't know if you caught all of that, but I want to remind you, these are, these are spine surgeons, commercial airline pilots. Why would they be making this stuff up? And yet they're talking about this otherworldly city and even the archway and the gates that they go through into the city. And they're in agreement, but they've never talked about it. They had never even met when I interviewed each one of them. But many near death experiencers talk about seeing this, this city. They call it a. A crystal city or some say it was a city of, of gold. But, you know, kind of like Dale said, gold. It looked gold from a distance, but up close it looked solid and other colors, but also transparent and clear. What's fascinating is this is exactly what John, one of Jesus disciples, was trying to describe when he said he was taken to heaven. And he writes the book of Revelation. And look at what he writes in Revelation 21. It's a little long, but I'm going to point out the commonalities here. John says, so he took me in the spirit to a great high mountain and he showed me the holy city. And this is the same mountain range Dale described. He said it was, you know, beyond the Himalayas, but not unlike Earth, but just beautiful. And this city, John says, shone with the glory of God, sparkled like a precious stone, like Jasper, as clear as crystal. So again, these two different things. See, God has prepared a place for you and for me, for all of his children, for all who want Him. And you were made to be his unique, one of a kind, specially loved child. Do you realize there is no other that God made for his love like you? So you have a unique role to play in the heart of God, in the city of God, in the kingdom of God. You know, Jesus said, believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house there are many dwelling places. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, so that where I am, there you may be also. This is a place that, as Mary and as Don Piper said, it's bustling with life. They said it's people that are busy. It's not a boring place. People are in the zone. You know, when you're in the zone, you're creating or you're doing some project and you're just lost, time is gone because you're so enamored with it. That's what heaven is like. It's exploration, it's creating, it's work, it's play, it's parties and festivals. That's all in the Bible. Jesus said that. Jesus said there will be roles and responsibilities. He said, some will be given the responsibility of governing nations. And Jesus said, whoever is faithful to God with what we've been given here on this earth, the things that won't last, he said, that's who can be trusted with more there, with things that will last. God will say, well done, good and faithful servant. You've been faithful with a few things. I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness. Listen to how Mary and Dale talk about another nde commonality, seeing Jesus. All right, so let's go back to.
- [74:23]
Dr. Neal
When Jesus was holding you. You're underwater. You're aware of his presence.
- [74:27]
Near Death Experience Survivor
Did you see him during that particular experience? I was being held, so I wasn't looking at him. During a subsequent experience, I did see him.
- [74:41]
Dr. Neal
What did he look like? Everybody wants to know.
- [74:44]
Near Death Experience Survivor
Everybody asks, I know. And my answer is very clear, even though it's nonsensical. And I would say that he looked like bottomless kindness and compassion. And those are not words that make sense because those aren't words that we use visually. But that is what he looked like. It wasn't a matter of looking at someone and saying, oh, you know, he had brown hair and whatever. He looked like bottomless kindness and compassion. And in terms of his outward appearance, I would say the same thing as the other people I saw, which is a physicality. Head, arms, legs, and again, this filamentous robe exploding with love. But I also will say that I'm not entirely sure that that's how he always is. I mean, I think that, well, he.
- [75:42]
Dr. Neal
Says he fills the universe.
- [75:44]
Near Death Experience Survivor
Right.
- [75:44]
Dr. Neal
I mean, there must be some.
- [75:45]
Near Death Experience Survivor
This is what. What I understood. I mean, if he had looked like something else, maybe I wouldn't have understood. Yeah, but in terms of hair, eyes, that sort of thing, everyone asks, well, okay, what color eyes did he have? And I would absolutely say that he does not look like the childhood pictures, you know, with the nice blonde hair and blue eyes.
- [76:08]
Dr. Neal
I never saw a blonde Jesus.
- [76:09]
Near Death Experience Survivor
Oh, I have.
- [76:12]
Dr. Neal
You're up with the Swedes and Scandinavians.
- [76:15]
Near Death Experience Survivor
That's exactly right. It is true. My childhood picture is blonde hair and blue eyes.
- [76:21]
Dr. Neal
Really?
- [76:21]
Near Death Experience Survivor
Yes.
- [76:22]
Dr. Neal
That's fascinating.
- [76:24]
Near Death Experience Survivor
But I would say that just like the colors of the pathway, it was as though his hair, his eyes, his skin were all the colors Simultaneously, it was as though he was everything. He is everything. And that made sense to me at the time because if you look around any room, let alone any part of the world, there are so many hair colors, eye colors, skin shades. We are all created beings, and why wouldn't we all be reflected in him?
- [77:00]
Dr. Neal
But was there a physicality to him?
- [77:05]
Near Death Experience Survivor
No. He was sitting on a rock and I was sitting on this.
- [77:08]
Dr. Neal
Did you touch him? Embrace or.
- [77:12]
Near Death Experience Survivor
No, not for most of it. I was sitting in this field that again, was just so beautiful. I mean, just beyond my own ability to explain it with that sort of that late afternoon sun that is just so incredibly beautiful. And I was sitting. And he was sitting on a rock. We were just chit chatting and we were talking more about some of the reasons I had been sent back to earth. And we talked about this mandate to share my experiences with other people.
- [77:46]
Captain Dale Black
Did you see Jesus later? I did. That was the last thing that happened. After going through the city and asking questions and going through at the very last moment, I had been ushered closer and closer toward the light. Toward the light. Toward the light.
- [78:03]
Dr. Neal
The light that's in the center of the city.
- [78:05]
Captain Dale Black
Yeah. And then there was a stairway that was near the glass sea, which it looked like a sea, and a stairway that went up, and a large angel with the most power, if we would say that. And it was clear that he was basically in charge of that stairway.
- [78:30]
Dr. Mary Neal
And I just began to communicate to this angel, heart to heart again, it's hard to say. Did we talk? It seemed like it, but then it seemed like we didn't. This communication was just impeccably pure.
- [78:47]
Captain Dale Black
And I began to recognize, I can't go up there. I can't go up. I can't go up and still go back. And I was thinking, go back, go back. What do we mean? What's that mean? And as soon as I'm thinking, go back, the angel moved just to the side.
- [79:09]
Dr. Mary Neal
But I looked into the eyes of the warmest kindness, most wonderful. I knew this was the Son of God. I knew this was my Savior. And all of a sudden, my knees buckled, my legs lost their strength, and I just went down. I couldn't stand. I was not worthy. I was not worthy to stand in his presence. Funny that I didn't feel worthy to be in heaven yet. I knew I was worthy in the early part. I was somehow granted this authority. But I had this supernatural gift that I was worthy. Somebody had done something for me.
- [79:54]
Dr. Neal
He had.
- [79:55]
Dr. Mary Neal
Yes. And so I'm down on my. Just falling down. And I see his feet, and I grab them and I hold his feet, and I see the scars, and I know this is the Son of God. He's my savior. He's my Lord. It is because of him he died for everybody. It's so cool. Jesus said that I have come not to condemn the world, but that the world through me will be saved. And it was because of that. He's not condemning anybody. It doesn't matter what you've done in your life, what sins you've done, including murder. It doesn't matter what you've done. All of it is forgivable. God can forgive anybody of anything. And then we have this free gift.
- [80:50]
Captain Dale Black
That we call salvation. You and I know about that.
- [80:52]
Dr. Neal
And that's what you felt at his feet.
- [80:55]
Captain Dale Black
I just. But to describe this experience, I just stopped at his feet and I was.
- [81:04]
Dr. Mary Neal
Worshiping him down on the ground there.
- [81:08]
Captain Dale Black
And I heard the voice, Dale, do you love me?
- [81:15]
Dr. Mary Neal
That's it. Do you love me? And I'm trying to think of all these words to say, and I'm getting ready to say, in a sense, I'm.
- [81:27]
Captain Dale Black
Getting ready to say, but I've said nothing.
- [81:30]
Dr. Mary Neal
And I'm getting ready to say, of course I love you, Lord. I remember who you are and what you do. I'm getting ready to say that. And he bends down and whispers into my ear, and I'm now back.
- [81:47]
John Burke
Do you love me? You know, that's really all God wants to know. Do you love me? Do you love me enough to turn back to me, to admit your wrongs and that you need my forgiveness? But also, do you want my leadership? Do you want me to be God? That's what it means to love God. Do you love me? And all he needs is a heart telling him that. Well, I hope you've enjoyed this podcast. I hope you'll share these podcasts with your friends and your family to help them. If they're skeptics, they're like I was, or, you know, just to encourage them in their faith as well. So be sure to like it and subscribe and, you know, do all that and hope to see you in the next podcast.