Imagine Heaven Podcast with John Burke

Episode: A Special Message: Connecting Into God's Presence
Date: October 24, 2025
Guests: John Burke (Host), Kathy Burke

Episode Overview

In this insightful episode, John Burke is joined by his wife, Kathy Burke, to explore “how we imagine God's heart, God's character, God's attributes, and specifically how he sees you and how it affects you” ([00:10]). They discuss the significance of understanding God’s true character, how Near-Death Experiences (NDEs) can add "color" to our scriptural understanding, and delve into powerful themes such as prayer, God’s sovereignty, intimacy, motherly love, righteous judgment, forgiveness, and how these truths can transform our daily lives. Notably, they draw on stories from Kathy's newly released devotional: Imagine the God of Heaven Devotional, which intertwines Scripture with testimonies from over 1,500 NDE survivors.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Importance of Imagining God Accurately

• Why Your View of God Matters

  • John emphasizes that our perception of God deeply affects us, and that “probably more than anything else, the way you think about God affects you for better or for worse” ([00:26]).
  • Many people don’t realize the transformative impact of truly understanding God’s nature.

• What NDE Stories Contribute

  • Rachel shares that although Scripture is foundational, “there’s just something about hearing from these people that… just makes it all come to life in a fresh way for me” ([03:11]).
  • John compares NDE testimonies to adding color to the black-and-white portrait Scripture gives of God’s character ([04:13]).

Imagination and Faith

• Expanding the Box We Put God In
  • John discusses how “imagination is something that is a gift from God… tied, I believe, to faith” ([06:33]).
  • Imagination helps faith visualize what we hope for and trust in, as Hebrews 11:1 proclaims.

Experiencing God’s Presence through Prayer

• NDEs and the Tangibility of Prayer
  • Kathy shares accounts where NDE survivors literally saw prayers “going up to the throne of God,” which “enhanced my prayer life… visualizing my prayers going up” ([08:46]).
  • Notable stories:
    • Steve Kong: Saved from hell by his mother’s (and her Christian friends’) persistent prayers, despite her being a Buddhist ([10:00]).
    • Ian McCormick: Rescued following a jellyfish sting after his mother was awakened to pray for him ([11:15]).
    • Ivan Tuttle: Credited his survival to his mother’s 28,000+ prayers:

      “I heard a voice like a mighty roar of thunder that said... His mother has been praying for him since he was a little boy… My mother had prayed over 28,000 times for me and it was her faithful prayers that saved me.” ([12:02])

    • Scriptural Parallels: Nehemiah, Psalm 56:8 (“collected all my tears in your bottle”)—multiple NDErs saw such “bottles” in Heaven ([13:26]).

God’s Sovereignty Through Suffering

• Trusting an All-Powerful, All-Knowing God
  • John relays Mark Madonna’s experience: After dying from burns sustained rescuing his brothers, Mark reported profound peace and understanding in God’s presence.

    “The answers were so simple, so joyful and so clear. I thought, oh yes, of course, that makes complete sense… It’s all going to be okay.” ([16:34])

  • Kathy affirms, “when things just seem really hard, it's like knowing that he sees the victory… It gives that comfort. It's reassuring to me.” ([17:55])

The Personal Side of God — Fatherly and Motherly Love

• Maternal Aspects of God’s Heart
  • Kathy highlights scriptural and NDE-based accounts that reveal “the maternal aspect of [God’s] own character” ([19:31]):
    • Isaiah 66: God comforts “as a mother comforts her child” ([19:52]).
    • Jesus’ longing to “gather you as a hen gathers her chicks” ([20:03]).
    • NDE Example: A woman named Mickey describes God “cradling me as a mother cradles her baby against her breast” ([21:12]).
    • Howard Storm: Jesus “held me and caressed me like a mother with her baby” ([22:06]).
    • Isaiah 49: God says to Zion, “Can a mother forget her nursing child? … Even if that were possible, I would not forget you. I’ve written your name on the palms of my hands” ([22:38]).

The Intimacy of God

• God Wants Deep Relationship
  • Cedric Pazegna describes the “scary intimacy of God”:

    “God's care and affection for me were not conditioned on my goodness... I realized that not only Did God love me? He was in love with me… God is obsessed with us.” ([26:31])

  • John: “There is a love like that... if God feels that way about me, why wouldn't I trust him with everything and why wouldn't I want to know him more?” ([28:00])

God as Righteous Judge—And Why We Shouldn’t Judge Others

• We Are Not the Righteous Judge
  • Kathy: “When we hear ‘God is a righteous judge,’ immediately we're like, bad, you, bad! … But we’re not the righteous judges” ([29:24]).
  • Mother Teresa: “If you judge people, you don’t have time to love them” ([32:03]).
  • NDE Example: Dean is stunned to see his Aunt Barbara in Heaven: “I wasn't expecting that... But Jesus did. And it didn’t matter if I knew; it mattered if He knew.” ([32:19])
  • Tree Analogy (John): God measures not just where people “are” but how far they've come—growth that outsiders may not see ([33:58]).

God as Forgiver—and Our Call to Forgive

• Forgiveness as the Key to Healing
  • Tony Davis’s story: After being left for dead in a gang shooting, in his NDE he hears God tell him, “forgive and I'll make you whole” ([39:10]).
  • Tony resisted but “let it go," recalling Jesus’ forgiveness. His leg was saved and his singing voice miraculously restored ([39:24]).
  • John: “God is a forgiver, but also he takes seriously how he wants us to be forgivers just like he is as well… when we hold on to that unforgiveness, it blocks something that God wants to do in our lives potentially.” ([40:06])

Living in God’s Love and Application

• Final Encouragements
  • Kathy: “God loves everyone. Every human he created with extravagant love… Every person is a masterpiece according to God. Understanding his heart toward us in that way is just so important in being able to have peace and joy during… dark times as we're in right now” ([40:21]).
  • John: “If we can help you imagine God more clearly… so that it lives out in your life, that’s what we’re devoting our lives to doing” ([41:10]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We all put God in a box and we have to because we're finite. So what I think these near death experience stories do is help us... expand our box.” — John Burke ([05:57])
• “Imagination is a gift from God that helps us put our faith in God.” — John Burke ([06:33])
• “My mother had prayed over 28,000 times for me and it was her faithful prayers that saved me.” — Ivan Tuttle, read by Kathy ([12:04])
• “As a mother comforts her child, so will I comfort you.” — Isaiah 66, quoted by Kathy ([19:52])
• “God's care and affection for me were not conditioned on my goodness… God is obsessed with us.” — Cedric Pazegna ([27:11])
• “If you judge people, you don’t have time to love them.” — Mother Teresa, quoted by Kathy ([32:03])
• “Forgive and I'll make you whole.” — God to Tony Davis ([39:10])
• “God loves everyone… with extravagant love, and every person is a masterpiece according to God.” — Kathy Burke ([40:21])

Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:01 — Introduction, theme, and Kathy’s involvement
• 03:07 — Why NDE stories matter, and their connection to scripture
• 06:00 — On imagination, faith, and visualizing God’s heart
• 08:41 — Impactful NDE stories about prayers reaching God’s throne
• 13:26 — God keeps all our tears; seeing this in NDEs and Scripture
• 16:34 — God’s sovereignty and perspective through suffering (Mark Madonna’s story)
• 19:19 — God’s “motherly love” as seen in scripture and NDEs
• 22:06 — Howard Storm’s story: Jesus’ deeply personal, comforting embrace
• 26:31 — The “scary intimacy” and passionate love of God
• 29:24 — God as the only righteous judge; letting go of our judgments
• 32:19 — Surprises in Heaven and the limits of human judgment (Dean’s story)
• 33:58 — The tree growth analogy for not judging spiritual progress
• 39:10 — Power of forgiveness; Tony Davis’s miraculous healing
• 40:21 — Kathy’s final encouragement: God’s extravagant love for all

Conclusion

This episode dives deep into imagining and experiencing the heart of God, blending scripture, personal reflection, and vivid NDE testimonies to help listeners picture the astonishing breadth and depth of God’s love, sovereignty, intimacy, and mercy. Both John and Kathy express a heartfelt invitation to move beyond mere intellectual acknowledgment to a faith that engages both heart and mind, inviting transformation in how believers live, love, forgive, and trust in God.

For more stories and devotionals connecting NDE insights with biblical truths, listeners are encouraged to check out The Imagine the God of Heaven Devotional by Kathy Burke, available in print and audiobook.