Blind, Alone & Near-Death on Mount Everest

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Blind, Alone & Near-Death on Mount Everest

Imagine Heaven Podcast with John Burke
Host: John Burke
Guest: Brian Dickinson
Date: January 8, 2026

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Overview

This episode features an extraordinary survival story: Brian Dickinson’s solo summit and blind descent from Mount Everest. More than an adventure tale, it’s a testament to faith, the power of surrendering control, and the reality of miracles. Host John Burke explores Brian’s harrowing climb, his near-death experience (NDE), and how faith and the spiritual practice known as the 60-60 experiment helped shape—and save—his journey. The episode concludes with reflections on NDE terminology and a challenge to listeners to embark on their own 60-60 experiment with God.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Introduction to Brian Dickinson’s Everest Journey

[01:30] – [04:47]

• Brian is the only human documented to solo the summit of Mount Everest and make it back down during a blind descent.
• He contacted John Burke after reading his book, Soul Revolution, and practicing its 60-60 experiment during climbs of Denali and Everest.
• Brian’s near-death experience isn’t typical—he didn’t clinically die or visit an afterlife—but divine intervention was clear in his survival.

"At 30,000 ft, the highest summit in the world, something went terribly wrong and Brian said he had a near death experience...the most fascinating story."
— John Burke [01:30]

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2. What Is the 60-60 Experiment?

[04:47] – [06:40]

• Brian’s church participated in the 60-60 experiment, which involves reconnecting with God every 60 minutes as an exercise in continual spiritual awareness.
• For Brian and his wife, it created a “triangle” of connection: each connecting with God and thereby drawn together, especially during his long absences.

“Every 60 minutes we would check in with God and just prayer...it kept us connected while I was gone, but as proxied through God.”
— Brian Dickinson [04:47]

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3. The Realities of Climbing Everest

[07:36] – [21:19]

• Climbing Everest is a two-month ordeal: half the time is spent acclimating to survive the Death Zone (above 26,000ft, where there’s only a third of the atmosphere's oxygen).
• The journey involves traversing the deadly Khumbu Icefall, navigating crevasses using ladders, and sleeping in tents on sheer ice walls.

“If we were to pluck our bodies as we are right now, unacclimated, put you on the summit of Everest, we would both pass out and die.”
— Brian Dickinson [07:36]

"You gotta find a reason to take a step forward. For me, I just kept repeating my wife and kids' names...that was kind of my 60-60 at that point."
— Brian Dickinson [20:50]

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4. The Summit Attempt and Crisis

[23:04] – [37:08]

• At 23,000ft, Brian’s goggles cracked and fogged, risking snow blindness. Miraculously, some Sherpa returned his goggles after they fell—a rare occurrence.
• Despite the compromised gear, Brian pressed on, solo after his Sherpa, Pasang, had to turn back due to altitude sickness.
• He became, by database accounts, one of just two people to ever solo the Everest summit on a single day.

“I’m one of two people in the Himalayan database documented to have ever soloed the summit of Everest on a given day.”
— Brian Dickinson [28:21]

• The summit ridge featured a two-foot-wide cornice with a two-mile drop on either side. The infamous Hillary Step rock climb followed.

“On the right, it is a two-mile drop into Tibet. On the left, it’s a two-mile drop into Nepal. I mean, it is straight two miles on each side.”
— Brian Dickinson [31:07]

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5. The Blind Descent: Near-Death on Everest

[39:11] – [54:47]

• After a brief stop at the summit, Brian began his descent, but within 10–15 feet lost all vision—total snow blindness set in.
• Alone, blind, and still high on Everest, he relied on touch and memory, methodically feeling for the right ropes and anchor points while traversing deadly terrain.
• Miraculous moments: Finding his lost crampon after a fall, surviving a slab avalanche by gripping a rope (which burned through his glove), and narrowly missing running out of oxygen.

"Immediately I just—I went snow blind...The entire time, I never ever once felt alone. It was this peaceful presence." — Brian Dickinson [39:11 – 41:21]

• Despite extreme adversity and critical danger, Brian never panicked, crediting both his military training and a sense of God’s tangible presence.

"I never felt such a tangible presence in my life ever." — Brian Dickinson [48:55]

• At his breaking point after 33 hours climbing blind, out of oxygen, he finally prayed for help.

"I just dropped to my knees and prayed. It was simple. I just said, God, I cannot do this alone. Please help me." — Brian Dickinson [50:22]

• Instantly, he felt lifted, found energy, and was able to use a previously malfunctioning oxygen bottle—at the same time that loved ones around the world reported being unexpectedly stirred to pray for him.

"We just witnessed a miracle. I mean, I felt like...someone lifted me up...I had this unexplained energy." — Brian Dickinson [51:32]

• Eventually, he reconnected with his Sherpa, Pasang, and made it back to camp, though it took over a month for his eyesight to recover.

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6. Processing Trauma, Survivor’s Guilt & Purpose

[55:15] – [57:40]

• Brian shares candidly about the hidden aftermath: PTSD, survivor’s guilt, and resurfacing childhood/military trauma.
• He highlights how people focus on the survival story but often overlook the survivor’s continued struggles.

“Everybody loves a survival story, but they don’t much care about the survivor and what they’re going through.”
— Brian Dickinson [55:15]

• He now uses his experience to connect with others about trauma, faith, and the power of surrender—often side-by-side with his wife, a Christian counselor.

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7. Spiritual Lessons: Surrender and Faith

[57:46] – [61:19]

• Brian’s biggest takeaway: Stop trying to brute force life—surrender and let God do what only He can do.
• John Burke relates how the 60-60 experiment grew out of his own struggles as a pastor and the realization that continually surrendering to God’s will is transformative—for addiction, anxiety, grief, or any struggle.

“A lot of what God’s taught me is to get out of my own way, stop trying to do it on my own, quit taking credit for everything he’s done...I pivoted on Everest. There’s Brian 1.0 and 2.0.”
— Brian Dickinson [57:46]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Brian on prayer and presence, blind on Everest:
  "The entire time, I never ever once felt alone. It was this peaceful presence...I’ve never felt such a tangible presence in my life ever."
  — [41:21],[48:55]

• On reaching the summit, then learning nobody knew he was solo:
  "That's when my friend got on the radio—he's like, congrats. You and Pasang, be safe on your way down...That's when I realized no one knew I was alone."
  — [36:20]

• Surrendering at the end of self-reliance:
  “I just dropped to my knees and prayed. It was simple. I just said, God, I cannot do this alone. Please help me.”
  — [50:22]

• John Burke—on spiritual connection and letting go:
  "If we disconnect, if we live disconnected from God in His spirit, we can do nothing. Now, we can do lots of things. But what he means is nothing of spiritual significance, nothing of eternal value."
  — [72:10]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |----------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:30–04:47 | Introduction to Brian and the 60-60 experiment | | 07:36–21:19 | Climbing Everest and acclimatization | | 23:04–29:09 | Summit attempt, gear failure, and solo ascent | | 36:20–39:11 | On the summit, realization of isolation | | 39:11–50:22 | Blind descent; survival, spiritual presence, and prayer | | 55:15–57:40 | Aftermath—PTSD, processing trauma, and survivor’s guilt | | 57:46–61:19 | Major life/spiritual lessons, surrender, and encouragement | | 61:48–71:42 | John’s reflections on NDEs vs. after-death experiences, 60-60 intro|

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Reflection on NDE Terminology & The 60-60 Challenge

[61:48] – End

• John clarifies that while Brian’s story is a near-death event, it is not a classic NDE (no clinical death or afterlife vision). He explains terminology and the purpose behind his research focus.
• He details the origins and effectiveness of the 60-60 experiment—checking in with God every hour for 60 days as a way of forming a new habit of spiritual connection and surrender.
• Listeners are challenged to try the 60-60 experiment as a New Year’s resolution for greater joy, guidance, and overcoming life’s “impossible mountains.”

“Just go read the free Soul Revolution chapters one through three and decide if you’re going to do it, and I'll be doing it with you as we start this new year.”
— John Burke [78:29]

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Final Thoughts

While this episode differs from prior “Imagine Heaven” accounts—focusing on miraculous survival rather than afterlife vision—it stands as a stirring call to surrender, resilience, and daily connection with God, both on and off the mountain. The 60-60 experiment is highlighted not just as a spiritual practice but as a lifeline for anyone facing overwhelming challenges.

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Transcript

[Brian Dickinson]

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[John Burke]

Brian Dickinson is the only human to solo summit Mount Everest and make it back down in a blind descent. He reached out to me saying that he had read my past book Soul Revolution and was doing the 6060 experiment that's in that book while he was climbing Denali and Mount Everest. But at 30,000ft on the highest summit in the world, something went terribly wrong and Brian said he had a near death experience. So I read Brian's book, Blind Descent and it was the most fascinating story. I mean, I love adventure. It was one of the most stretching endeavors you can imagine. And I was just in awe learning of what it takes to climb Mount Everest. Now, Brian's near death experience is not typical of the ones that I normally study, as you'll see. But it will inspire you to hear not only what he endured, but how God miraculously intervened and got him out of an impossible situation. And at the end of this episode, I'm going to talk more about how people sometimes characterize near death events and some of the terminology and confusion. And then I'm also going to talk about the 6060 experiment that Brian was, was doing and how I believe it could be the secret to helping you overcome marital struggles, addictions, fear, lust, greed, anxiety, worry, whatever struggles you face and replace it with a surprising joy. That's actually been my experience as I'll share. And I think this can turn your new year into an exciting new adventure with God that's going to take you to new heights as well. So stick with us till the end. Well, I'm John Burke, author of the New York Times best selling book Imagine Heaven and this is the Imagine Heaven podcast. Hey, Brian Dickinson, Great to see you. Thanks so much for joining us on this Imagine Heaven Live series podcast.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, such an honor. Yeah, it's great, great to have a conversation with you.

[John Burke]

Brian reached out to me and, and, and basically said that, hey, I read your book Soul Revolution while summiting Denali, which is one of the highest peaks, I guess you were setting out to summit the seven highest peaks in the world, right? On each continent, is that right?

[Brian Dickinson]

Yep.

[John Burke]

And then Everest and actually summited Everest, the highest mountain in the world. And not only was I doing the 6060 experiment during that time, but I had what might be like a near death experience. And so I was like, really? Okay, we gotta talk. So in the meantime, I got Brian's book Blind Descent and I read the whole thing last weekend. I was like, I couldn't put it down. It was, it was so intriguing. I mean I had no idea what it takes to climb Mount Everest. I will never be doing that. But I feel like I kind of lived it through your shoes. So first of all, how did you, how did you even find out about Soul revolution and the 6060 experiment? How did that happen and why were you doing it on these climbs?

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, it's always God's timing. But my church, church on the ridge here in Snoqualmie, Washington, just 25 miles east of Seattle in 2009, we were just, I don't know, the pastor bought everyone a copy and the little timers that went along with it and every, every 60 minutes we would check in with God and just prayer and just working on that whole Christ centered exercise. Just an amazing, amazing book. And experime what's so cool on the timings. I used to be special operations in the military. You know, I'd leave for six months at A time met my wife and you know, got married, kids, moved up to the Pacific Northwest. She's always dealt with anxiety and her miracle throughout all this. She always will be on stage talking and she'll talk about the 6060 challenge, how it kept us connected while I was gone, but as proxied through God, because we weren't obviously praying for each other. We were praying for each other, but not to each other. We were praying every 60 minutes. And it was just that, that connection, you kind of that triangle of, you know, a good relationship, a good marriage, you know, if you focus on each other, you're going to, you're going to disappoint because we're all human and we're all flawed. But when you focused collectively on Jesus, some miracle, like, amazing, right? Like God creates these miracles that we just, we come together and we grow closer. And yeah, while I was on both those climbs, the church just happened to be doing the 6060 challenge and they did it the second time just because, you know, you have new members coming in the church, new seekers. And let's, we had so much success the first time around. Let's, let's give this another shot. And it was amazing because those were like the two most hectic climbs that I could do. And, you know, we'll get into my Everest experience.

[John Burke]

Yeah, definitely. Well, and for most people who follow me, I think I only wrote one book, Imagine Heaven, but I actually had a whole life before my writing on near death experiences. And soul revolution is actually a very simple idea based on Jesus last night on Earth when he said in John 15, I'm the vine, you're the branches. You know, basically just like a branch stays connected to a tree trunk and fruit grows naturally. It doesn't have to work real hard, it just stays connected, fruit grows naturally. So stay connected to me and you'll bear much fruit, but apart from me, you can do nothing. So I'm very curious as how that came into play in this whole climb on Everest. Why don't you, why don't you take us back? Because I learned so much about, I was so intrigued. You can't just climb up the highest mountain in the world. It's like a whole process, right?

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, don't do that. Yeah. Mount Everest, obviously highest mountain in the world stands at 29,035ft. Same altitude that major jet airliners Cruise at. Above 26,000ft or 8,000 meters. There's only a third of the air, third of the ozone up there. So you just can't survive if the, you know, depressurization occurs in an airplane. The oxygen pops down, otherwise everyone passes out and dies. Same thing. You're in Austin right now, pretty much sea level. Right. If you. And same where I'm at. If we were to pluck our bodies as we are right now, un acclimated, put you on the summit of Everest, we would both pass out and die. You just cannot survive.

[John Burke]

And that's because you're, you're, you don't have enough red blood cells to take enough oxygen to your brain and your heart, you know, your, your body. Is that why?

[Brian Dickinson]

That's right, yeah. So the whole, the whole reason it takes two months to climb a mountain like Mount Everest is half that time is acclimating. So for one, it's, you fly into Lukla, shortest, highest, most deadly airport in the world. If you survive that, it's 38 miles on foot just to get to base camp. And base camp's at 17,500ft. So this entire time you're climbing high, you come back down, sleep low, which forces your body to produce more red blood cells which carry more oxygen. And so you can survive higher. But it's a, it's a long, drawn out process. So you end up climbing Everest. Actually, once you get to actual Everest base camp, you start going up to the different camps, going through the Khumbu Icefall, these really sketchy, dangerous areas. Go up, touch a camp, come back down, and sometimes go all the way back down to maybe something like 14,000ft at a village where there's more air that you can replenish and get healthy before you start moving higher and higher. So it's amazing. God created some pretty amazing things in our life, like our, just the abilities that we just, you know, we haven't even tapped into at this point. So it's, it's a cool process.

[John Burke]

And so you're, you're going, you're climbing up, then you come back down, then you go up a little higher, come back down. And that's actually acclimating your body to be able to survive up at the top.

[Brian Dickinson]

Exactly, yeah. And the highest that you can acclimate, the highest you do on Everest is at Camp 3, which is, you know, a mile or so up this ice wall called Lotse Face. Lotse is the fourth highest mountain in the world. You actually climb straight up that get to about 23,000ft. This is where you see the tents that are anchored to the side of the wall. You sleep there. That's usually where people start using supplemental oxygen. So It's. It's not like 100% compressed air like scuba diving, because if you came off that, you die. It just mixes with the outside air. But that's about as high as you can acclimate because beyond that, you get up to the highest camp in world, which it is called the Death Zone. It's a South Cole. It's the high camp. And because there's only a third of the air up there, if you cut your finger, it won't heal. Like, the. The body just. You cannot survive. You're just. You're slowly or maybe quickly dying. So you really want to, you know, reduce your exposure, be completely acclimated, be healthy enough, have a good weather window to then, you know, wake up, climb through the night, touch the summit, take a couple selfies, and get down safely. Because remember, getting to the top is just the halfway point.

[John Burke]

Well, so take us kind of through. You know, some of the things that you had to go through and some of the challenges as you're. As you're seeking to summit. It was you with your Sherpa and one other guy, Bill, Is that right? Or were you guys climbing separately?

[Brian Dickinson]

We were separate, so, yeah. I wasn't a part of a big group. I was climbing independent. So I'm just very comfortable doing things solo. Soloed a lot of the highest peaks around the world. My job in the military, I jumped out of helicopters as a rescue swimmer, solo. So it's one to one, one to many. So just very comfortable. But I had a Sherpa friend, and it was just the two of us. Bill was a day behind, and the two of us were. Were heading up to. From Camp 3 to the south Cole, and then going to make a summit attempt. Fortunate or not, you know, there's safety in numbers. We didn't have numbers because we were about a day ahead of the. The big push. So you see, like, lines and traffic jams on Everest. Well, there's. There's only one way up, one way down. So compared to other mountains around the world, it's nothing normal. It's. It's just, you know, Everest always gets the press. We didn't have that.

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[Brian Dickinson]

So when I left Camp 3 and started heading up camp, this is when kind of a pivotal thing happened. You know, there were 70 mile an hour winds, so it's really tough just pushing our way forward one step at a time. A couple people did summit that night. One famous Japanese climber passed away at the South Summit. Most people were retreating. So Pasang and I were trying to get in a position in the high camp to then summit the next day, which was supposed to be nicer, but about a thousand feet above Camp 3. And it's. Think about the, look at a wall, the side of a wall. That's, that's what I'm climbing up.

[John Burke]

Well, and even to get there, I mean you had to, didn't you have to go over all these crevasses that, I mean they're like what, thousand foot just openings in the, in the face of the ice that just go hundreds of feet, if not thousands down.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, you can't see the bottom of some. So yeah, if we back it up all the way to base camp, right out of there. The first major obstacle and arguably the most dangerous area is the Khumbu Icefall. So the ice fall is a, it's building size blocks of ice that are just continually falling. And this is the route changes every time you go through up or down. I went through about eight times. This is where you cross the aluminum ladders, these cheap ladders where you have like four or five tied together going across these crevasses.

[John Burke]

Yeah, I was, I was looking, I was look because after I read it I was like, oh my gosh. Like that alone, you know, like they're rickety little aluminum kind of cheapy ladders just lash together and they're over these thousand foot high drops. Right. And you're just holding onto a flimsy rope and walking with these. With crampons on these ladder rungs. I mean, that alone.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah. Now you get good at it. Initially. Yeah, it's. It's scary. But I think if you're scared of that, then it's probably not the right thing to be doing anyways. Yeah, it's tough because they are cheap ladders, and they will. The steel crampons, that's the spikes on your boots will pierce the aluminum, and you can get stuck. And as you're trying to pull up, you don't want to, like, yank yourself off and fall hundreds, thousands of feet. So a lot of times, like, I would balance in the rungs, so it was high center on them, and I could just go across. But, yeah, the first few times, it's a little sketchy. And one of my safety lines did break off when I was soloing up through there one of the times, and I just dropped down and crawled across. Like, there's. There's nothing glamorous about drop down on.

[John Burke]

The ladder and just.

[Brian Dickinson]

Oh, yeah, just shimmy. It's all survival. So. But yeah, you get. You get across those. And there's a lot. I mean, there's probably, I don't know, close to 30 different sections. Through the icefall above that, you get into Camp 1, and then it's this valley called the Western Coom, which gets you from Camp 1, which is 19,000ft, to about 21,000ft, which is Camp 2, or Advanced Base Camp. That area is not too bad. The altitude just. No matter what, it's. You're just slow moving. It's like five seconds between every step. There's one area that there are five ladders tied together. That's. It's pretty sketchy.

[John Burke]

I mean, is it, like, sagging? I was trying to.

[Brian Dickinson]

And then when you step on it, it sags and swings. It's. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's legit. But you get across that and then that's your last. There might be like one or two more ladders up higher, but it's like a single. Just to get over, like a fissure. But, yeah, from there you go straight up. You're just ice rock, snow climbing. There's fixed lines, so there's ropes that, you know, we attach to anchor points so that I can climb solo. I don't have to be attached to another human. If I fall, I only fall as far as that next anchor point, and, you know, hopefully I don't yank that anchor out and, you know, be game over. But you just. You're moving so slow and just being so meticulous in everything that you do. And that's what kind of led me to my goggle issue. So this would be on my summit attempt on. This had been May 14th. Climbing up. Up from Camp 3 to the south Coal to then make a nighttime attempt. And just for the listeners, on highly glaciated peaks, you climb through the night because once the sun comes out, things become very unstable. That's when avalanches kick off. Things get soft. The anchors are metal conductors, so they can, you know, come out once it's been probably.

[John Burke]

You know, what I didn't realize and probably others don't, is it's extreme cold temperatures. Right. Like, even down to 100 below Fahrenheit. Didn't I see that at one point?

[Brian Dickinson]

Or it can be with the wind chill for sure.

[John Burke]

Yeah, with wind chill.

[Brian Dickinson]

Cold aside. Minus 70. And that was in Antarctica.

[John Burke]

Minus 70. That's cold enough.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, that'll do it. But then minus 30 is, like, just freezing.

[John Burke]

Oh, yeah. Well, but then. But then it also heats up quickly because of all the snow and the altitude without really blocking the rays. And so then you're having to strip off layers. So you don't sweat.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, it's. It's a game. I mean, you. You have to know your own body. Like, if you and I climb together, we have different body types. You know, even though we may look the same, you know, I might sweat more than you. And that's really dangerous because it can get, like, 80 degrees as the sun. The clouds part, the wind stops. The sun is banking off the ice. So now you're radiating from both ends, and you have less protection. And then, you know, a second later, wind picks up, the clouds get covered, and now you're down in the negatives. And hypothermia is a real deal, so you have to always be careful of just, you know, regulating your body temperature. If I'm sweating, slow down, just rest, unzip, ventilate some water. You know, it's just because if you.

[John Burke]

Sweat and then it freezes, you get hypothermia.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, there's a chance of that for sure.

[John Burke]

Wow.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah. Yep.

[John Burke]

And so.

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[John Burke]

And at one point, I mean, didn't you just barely run from an avalanche that came down across your. Where you were?

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, there's a few of those. So just going into base camp, there was a rock avalanche, and I was listening to Immersive Me like a mix on my ipod. Not even iPhone. It was ipod. This tells you.

[John Burke]

Yeah.

[Brian Dickinson]

In 2011, and I saw some people waving at me and I like waved back at them. They're like, no. I looked up to my left and there's like a major like rock avalanche. I took off running and yeah, my expedition could have been over pretty quick. And then, yeah, going through the Kumbu Icefall, you again, you go through the night. But as soon as that sun comes up, I mean there's avalanche is kicking off left and right and you know, just things falling. There's a massive ice bulge that collapsed I think in 2015 and like killed a bunch of Sherpa, like 16 Sherpa. And just one, one swoop and it's. Yeah, just horrible. When I went through, I was always looking up at that. I'm like, that's, that's going to go at some point. So you just move as efficiently as you can.

[John Burke]

Yeah, so, so then take us up. You're. You're starting to scale this. It's a straight up ice face. Right. And I wasn't sure if I read it right, but like how high is that? That ice face? That straight up.

[Brian Dickinson]

So that gets you into the death zone. So that's gets you up to 26,000ft.

[John Burke]

So you start from 20,000ft?

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, like 20, 21 up to.

[John Burke]

So that's literally a mile straight up.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, you got a vertical mile. Yep.

[John Burke]

Climbing straight up with crampons sticking into ice. That's it.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, it's more than that because the route takes you, you switch back and you know, different routes. It just vertically, it's, it's a mile up.

[John Burke]

That's unbelievable. I, I thought I read that and I was like, that can't be, it can't be a mile, but it is. Yeah.

[Brian Dickinson]

6,000Ft up and it's so slow moving too. But you just, you're just in your own head and you're just, you know, you got to find a reason to take a step forward. And for me, I just kept repeating my, my wife and kids names. Emily Jordan, Joanna Step, Emily Jordan. Because that was like five seconds and it, and I, that was kind of my 60, 60 at that point, every 60 seconds.

[John Burke]

Well, and you're, and you are, you're not supposed to just go as fast as you can. From what I understood.

[Brian Dickinson]

You can try. It's. You just can't. Oh, it's impossible. There's not enough air. Like your, your muscles need oxygen to function and you can move as efficiently as, as you can. I was, I was pretty efficient. Like I was 35, 36 and pretty strong. And you know, been climbing around the world. There was people that were just. I had to check to make sure they were alive. They're just sitting there, I don't know, resting. They're alive, but just kind of go around them and keep moving up. But yeah. So at 23,000ft. So heading towards high camp. Stopped at about a thousand feet above camp to get a, get some water. And that's where I had to take my mask and my goggles off. And I put my goggles around my arm and that's when my foot slipped out and my goggles released. And I thought that was going to be it, you know, I need goggles. You go snow blind, you have to have protection. I had sunglasses, but with the oxygen mask and the strap that goes between the eyes, it doesn't work. I tried that. But miracle number one was. Or that I can account for some Sherpa about 500ft below were waving at me. They got my goggles. There's no reason that those goggles shouldn't just tumble for over a mile. So I came off oxygen and I left my pack. Everything repelled down. Once I got to them, they were cracked in the internal lens. So anyone who's been out in the cold with goggles or glasses, you know that the contrast of your warm breath and the cold outside will make your goggles or glasses fog up. Well, mine were fogging up and freezing. But between the layers, eventually I couldn't see maybe a dime sized hole. I eventually ripped the internal lens out and not really realizing that would cut their effectiveness in half.

[John Burke]

And effectiveness from the sun which, which can burn your cornea and cause this snow blindness.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, it's, it's common. I actually saw someone being helped down as I was getting close to entering into high camp, who had snow blindness. He had about 5 guys Sherpa around him, helping him down. Like, man, sucks to be that guy is my premonition. Right. And I get up. But yeah, the snow blindness is the sunburning of the cornea. Having blue eyes, we're more susceptible. Lack of ozone protection up there. As soon as the sun banks off the ice, it's pretty much done for. And it's, it's an accumulation thing too. It's not like it happens. Right. I mean it can like right away, but it can be from my goggle malfunction to the next day. All of that accumulates. It's damaging. Kind of like getting a sun tan turns into a sunburn.

[John Burke]

Yeah.

[Brian Dickinson]

Usually takes about 24 hours to return. So it's something you want to avoid.

[John Burke]

So you crack your goggles. But ripping that out gave you vision again. So you continue on.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yep. Yeah. So early afternoon I made it to. Because Pasang continued up. He made it to. To high camp and he was in a tent. Once I finally strolled in early afternoon and I found him, we just kind of like tried to relax a little bit. Which is. It's a crazy when you're in the death zone, you're at the highest camp in the world and just everything that's going on in your head, you know, getting ready for a summit attempt, it's. It's hard to relax. But we made it and, and didn't.

[John Burke]

I. I think you said it was like 70 mile an hour winds at one point.

[Brian Dickinson]

It was and it had. It was definitely dissipating. So how Everest works because it's up in the jet stream, you'll get just. There's only a couple days of the year that you can actually summit. That's why you do see those lines because when you're at base camp you need a five day window to get in position to summit and to get down safely. So 70 mile an hour winds were, were definitely hitting the day prior. And as we were getting to high camp, once I reached high camp, it slowed down quite a bit. I mean it was like went to zero. So we, we made the radio calls down. They triangulate the weather and said it's going to be calm through the night and then 50 mile an hour gust the next day and then calm days after that. You know, they nailed it. And that's, that's how it works because you're climbing through the night, you want it calm and then you have gravity on your side getting down. So that was completely sufficient.

[John Burke]

So, so you knew there might be 50 mile an hour winds the next day, but were you gonna try to get back down before that before they hit?

[Brian Dickinson]

Was that the idea on Everest? You, you have turnaround times and that would all fit into those boundaries of bad weather. So that was the goal.

[John Burke]

You take off climbing in the night to start your summit.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yep. Yeah. We cruise out and watch the sunset from the highest camp there is pretty amazing. Took a picture and you know, didn't head it up and I made it. I was inching away and got to the balcony 27,500ft and I was about an hour ahead of Pasang which is unusual because he is, he's younger than me and had a couple summits already himself super strong, but he's Nepalese so He.

[John Burke]

He does this as a living, right?

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, yeah, super strong, but we're all human up in the death zone. And he eventually showed up and just vomited. He wasn't feeling good. So at that point, I thought, we're gonna have to head back down. And he assured me, no, no, I just need some water. So I ran out of water. So I gave him an extra one I had. He drank it, and we said, no, let's continue. So, yeah, you live and die by the decisions you make, but you make those decisions based on the information you have at the time. You know, this is something drilled into us in the military as well. You know, a bad decision is better than no decision. And based on everything, at that point, it was good. So we. We continued up and at about 28,000ft, right before it starts getting a little more technical as rock climb, that's when he. He tapped out. He said, I'm going to go back to the balcony. I'll leave you an extra oxygen bottle here, and, you know, we'll see you when you get back down.

[John Burke]

And so. So he was. Because he was. He had such altitude sickness that he was throwing up, or was it something else?

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, it's altitude, and that's. It's super dangerous. So there's high altitude. High altitude, cerebral and pulmonary edema. And that's where you get brain swelling and hard. Your heart can explode. So you have to listen.

[John Burke]

It can kill you.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, yeah. And it can. The only solution is to get down. To get down to lower altitude. So he made the right choice. But in that moment, I mean, that was a major, major decision for me. So I had to weigh it out, you know, how. How was the weather? Weather was good. How was. I. I felt strong. Most importantly, how was Pasang, my friend? He assured me he was good. He said he was going to wait at the balcony. He ended up going all the way down to high camp, which was totally fine. But he turned around. You know, he left oxygen bottle, turned around, went down, and I turned and didn't overthink it. Started moving up. And what's pretty nuts about this whole thing is I'm one of two people in the Himalayan database documented to have ever soloed the summit of Everest on a given day.

[John Burke]

And nobody. Nobody else made it that day, did they?

[Brian Dickinson]

No one even attempted. It was just the two of us. So it's.

[John Burke]

And why. Why was that if it were. If it was good conditions? Because they come from. They come from two sides. Did you go up the south, the north, or the south now.

[Brian Dickinson]

The south out of Nepal. Yeah, it's people where we're waiting one extra day to bypass those 50 mile an hour gusts.

[John Burke]

Got it.

[Brian Dickinson]

We were a day ahead. The people before us. 70 mile an hour, that's, that's a bit much because you're, you're really exposed up there. But a couple people did summit, so just would have been miserable. But yeah, I continued up, got to the, the South Rock Step and it's a rock climb at 28, 000ft. Like it's, it'd be easy on sea level, but up there it's, it's legit. Just every, every moment. It's just a lot.

[John Burke]

Is this Hillary's Step? That one?

[Brian Dickinson]

Not even yet.

[John Burke]

Oh, okay.

[Brian Dickinson]

This is where I, I looked out. I have a video of the sun rising from the highest point in the world. Projecting the perfect pyramid shadow.

[John Burke]

Oh, I saw that.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, it's, it's amazing.

[John Burke]

I read it, I read it in your book and then I saw it on one of your videos, maybe on your podcast or somewhere. That perfect. Yeah, it's just unbelievable how high that is.

[Brian Dickinson]

I mean, and what you're looking at is the highest peaks in the world are below. That's the Himalayas. I know happen to be on the highest in the world.

[John Burke]

I've been to the Himalayas. I went skiing in the Himalayas once.

[Brian Dickinson]

Oh, cool. I'd love to hear about that.

[John Burke]

It's high, but.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, it is. But what's unique about the sun rising is it's your first glimmer of hope when you're climbing and you're just have a headlamp and it's one step in front of the other. It's that light that you now know, like I should be close. That's your first indication of time and maybe turnaround depending on where you're at.

[John Burke]

And two months. You've been on this mountain for two months doing all the work, up and down, climbing, going back down, acclimating, going through all these different challenges that you've had to overcome. And now you're finally, you're finally there. I can imagine it would be hard to go, ah, it's, it's another 2,000ft. I'm going back down. That would be hard.

[Brian Dickinson]

If it was 2,000ft, I would have went back down, but I was so, I was right at the South Summit. So it's about an hour more from there. So it's just. Okay, you have to drop down, which stinks cuz you got to climb back up on the way out. But that first section after the South Summit is that Cornice Traverse. So that's where it is a, it's a, about a 2ft wide space and a cornice is overhanging ice from the wind, windswept. So you can break through that. On the right it is a two mile drop into Tibet. On the left it's a two mile drop into Nepal. I mean it is straight two miles on each side.

[John Burke]

And I read that and I didn't really believe it and I went and watched the videos.

[Brian Dickinson]

Why don't you believe what I wrote?

[John Burke]

Well, I thought it was exaggeration, I guess, you know, like not really too, you know, it was a long way. But no, it's on when, when you see. And that's where the traffic jams happen because all these climbers, what, 400 climbers from around the world can only summit in about a five day window, right?

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah. And then the next area is Hillary Step. And I know it's changed since an earthquake occurred, you know, a few years ago, but it was a 40 foot rock climb, so that is a point of contention. One way up, one way down, and sometimes just one rope up and down. So you have to wait. And that'd be a really bad place to get into a traffic jam. I didn't have that. I mean, I just, I bounced up that and that's when I could.

[John Burke]

But, but going across that very narrow, like you said, like two feet with, you know, mild drops on either side. Is that the place you were talking about? That where you see those traffic jams.

[Brian Dickinson]

Happening, where they'll, it would be, they're not going to make a jam on that area. That'd be impossible to get around each other. But they will, they'll bunch on the top of Hillary Step at the base of it and then at the base of the South Summit.

[John Burke]

So then it's okay because I saw something. I was, you know, you got me all hooked on this now. It's like such extreme adventure and I'm like, no way. Wow. What would that be like? And so I started watching all these videos and, and there is, there's a very, very narrow pass. In fact, something happened like where, where there was a breakthrough and two guys fell and were never found. Last year, I think.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, you would. It'd actually be kind of a cool way to go, I guess, if you're gonna go. But that wasn't God's plan for me.

[John Burke]

I kind of think you would, I think you would step into eternity before you ever hit the bottom.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, I agreed.

[John Burke]

But let's not. Try it.

[Brian Dickinson]

It's not an NDA. You wanna. So yeah, I got across that, bounced up Hillary Step. That's when I could first see the actual summit, the prayer flags, everything. And it's still a cornice traverse getting up there. The winds were kicking up a little bit, but just. It's even 14. Today is my Everest Day. May 15, 2020.

[John Burke]

Oh, we're recording on the anniversary.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yep.

[John Burke]

How cool.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, it's pretty wild. So yeah, even 14 years later, it's, it's still, it's so much to process and I think we have those things in life where you know, a graduation or something, something you worked hard for, even childbirth and just things in our lives. Sometimes you feel like I need to process it right now and it's impossible. There's just, it's too much, it's overwhelming. And that's just one of those things I, I don't think I ever truly will. You know, maybe, maybe in heaven someday I get to watch it on VHS and.

[John Burke]

Yeah, your life review. Watch it back and well, and speaking of. So talk about just the experience of God and your relationship with God as you're going through this whole two month climb and then there you are up at the highest point on earth.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah. No, I accepted Christ years and years ago in my heart and my wife's a Christian counselor. We're involved in the church. But there was, I think there was still a barrier because I. My whole life growing up in, you know, trauma, different types of abuse, going into special operations, just layers and layers of trauma and unconsciously chasing that trauma. Now I'm climbing the highest mountains in the world. A lot of times we, we have these experiences as from our childhood and then we get into these of, you know, like first responder positions to try to change the outcome of that trauma and it puts us in control.

[John Burke]

And it's, it's subconscious. You know my, I have a buddy who went to our church as a firefighter. He was the, the captain and amazing guy and he's done amazing rescues. He was CIA special ops as well. But he told me, yeah, like 90% of firefighters have had some kind of abuse and traumatic PTSD kind of abuse in their past. And I was like really?

[Brian Dickinson]

That's 90% that are. Aw.

[John Burke]

Well, yeah. And, and I mean, and he said there is, there's, there's something subconscious being trying, trying to be worked out of rescuing people when, when you know, maybe I guess you weren't right.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah. You had no control as a child and now, now you Take control of that. And it's. Yeah, it makes for a very effective person in that position. The greatest counselors, drug counselors, they've walked it out. They have that credibility, and it's unfortunate they had to go through that to, to have that credibility. But they can help so many. And you can see where their purpose shifted. For me, my relationship, you know, is always in that growth mode with Jesus and always in prayer. But I've always taken credit. I've always tried to do things on my own. And I believe that's where my story, my life pivoted in this moment. I couldn't do it on my own anymore.

[John Burke]

Right after, Right after this summit.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, so I, I made the summit all emotional, took the highest selfie in the world and made a radio call down and just said, you know, this is Brian checking in from the summit of Everest and amazing moment. Everyone's just, you know, comes to life because everyone's monitoring the frequency. That's when my friend down at Camp 3 got on the radio. He's like, congrats. He's like, you know, you and Pasang, you know, be safe on your way down. And it was at that moment I realized no one knew I was alone. And I was like, that's cool. But Pasang went down hour or so ago. He's like, you're alone. It's like, yeah. And that's where he turned to Lakba Sherpa. He was with, who has five summits. I'd been climbing with him for the last month. He asked, how long is it going to take Brian to get down to high camp? He says, oh, Brian, probably two, three hours. And then no one would hear from me for seven, so.

[John Burke]

And from what I understood, you couldn't just call back because when you went to turn the radio off, it actually switched the frequency. Is that what.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, it's because I didn't.

[John Burke]

I didn't quite understand that.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, you have big gloves, big down suit, everything. So, you know, little frequency button. It's pretty common. You spin it, you know, or just whatever when you, when you put it back. And that was the case. And so a couple of things. We'll get into my, my experience, but you can also get into my mentality. I would never call someone to put them in position, risking their life where everything is survival. I've made the choice to go forward. That was my choice. And it wouldn't have been a choice because there's dead zones. Bad word for it. But the radios actually don't work once you Start heading down for a big gap of what I was about to descend.

[John Burke]

Well, and the other crazy thing that I realized reading your book and, and watching some of this stuff is, I mean, there, there are, there are like 300 bodies up there in that dead zone that just never, they didn't make it. And in the climb, and then you can't even get them down because it would be deadly to try to get someone out of that. Is that correct?

[Brian Dickinson]

It is, yeah. And I think everyone who goes into it, I mean, that's, that's a respectful, you know, to, to keep their bodies there. That's where they, they want to be. I mean, that's, you know, I don't, I don't know where everyone's faith is. You know, there's a lot of, a lot of different, you know, religion and Buddhism and Hinduism and everything else that, you know, people that climb and, you know, they're being reincarnated into a flower or whatever. I don't know what that belief is. But for me, you know, if I'm gone, that's, that's my body, but my spirit's. It's not there. It's. It's in heavens. But yeah, you can't, you can't get people down. They've rescued or they've brought some bodies down before and it's, it's a herculean effort and it just, it puts everyone else at risk. But yeah, there's 300 bodies up there.

[John Burke]

So as you, as you start to go down after you make the call, is that when suddenly everything went south?

[Brian Dickinson]

Literally? I, yeah, I made that radio call. I got a snack, got some water. And you can't spend much time up there, maybe an hour at most. But you gotta head down. You can spend your whole life trying to get to this place, but once.

[John Burke]

You'Re there, you can't enjoy it for long.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, and it's, you know, it's the size of a kitchen table, so you can only do so much. So I, I headed down and yeah, like 10, 15ft into it. Everything just went completely white. And immediately I just, I went snow blind. And I remember dropping down, grabbing the rope that I was attached to and just assessing the situation. It's what we do in the military. I was at the highest point in the world completely alone and I'm blind. No one's coming to get me. And without overthinking it, without panicking, I stood up and I started moving. Just slowly, slowly inching down and trying so hard to use my eyes because I'M not normally blind, but it's so bright. So with snow blindness, it's not black. It is white. It is. Put a light bulb an inch from your face, you cannot see anything. You can move your finger in front of it and you'll know that a shadow or something just moved, but you cannot focus. And it feels like if you break potato chips, put them in your eyelids, it's just very, very uncomfortable. I don't recommend it, but I was using my other senses. I was trying to use my eyes. I'd grab the rope, bring it up close because I had to come in and out of anchor points. If I clipped into the wrong rope, they. They leave ropes up there. It's like dreadlocks, you know, be fragile, shatter, and I'd, you know, fall for a couple.

[John Burke]

I mean, some ropes have been up there for decades, and so you can't clip into the wrong rope. And you were. And you were going by sight. I think it was the yellow and black line that was the newest.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah. Which was impossible to see.

[John Burke]

So you can't see right up to.

[Brian Dickinson]

My face, but I could feel which ropes were tight in the anchor points. So I would hold it, bring the other one up. And so I just. It was a long process. And the entire time, I never, ever once felt alone. It was this peaceful presence. I just. I didn't overthink it. It's like if you and I are in the room together, you close your eyes, I don't say anything, but, you know, I'm there. It was just a very tangible presence. So I just. I don't know.

[John Burke]

Were you praying at that point? Were you talking to the Lord about the situation or were you just on autopilot?

[Brian Dickinson]

I was definitely every. I was doing everything I could to take a step forward and to focus and do it on my own. I don't remember praying. It seems like something I would do, but I don't remember in that moment, like, just being deep in prayer. It was just like there's this peaceful presence. I'd take another step. I was so thirsty, I would stop, you know, go through all my system, get some water, put it back, you know, just. Everything was taking a long time. And got to the top of Hillary Step, that forty foot rock climb. Reversed my gear, tried to rappel down, just slipped out. Pendulum hit the rock. I remember just sliding down the rope and onto this ledge and just kind of assessing, like, my damage. Am I broken? It's like, no, I think I'm good.

[John Burke]

How far did you fall?

[Brian Dickinson]

Most of it.

[John Burke]

Which is 40ft.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah.

[John Burke]

Oh, my gosh.

[Brian Dickinson]

But it's sliding down a rope, so I have a friction device. So it's basically repelling out of control.

[John Burke]

Is that when it's. You said it literally burned through the leather in your glove.

[Brian Dickinson]

No, don't jump ahead.

[John Burke]

Oh, that was another time. Oh, my gosh. I know, it's. It's such a wild story. I mean, no, that's why I couldn't put the book down.

[Brian Dickinson]

So, no, I got there, I was, I was okay. I remember getting some water and just anytime something occurred, I. I can't see. It's just. It's so this uncontrollable feeling, you know, if you're not normally blind and being in this situation, you know, the thought of, am I going to die? If it came close, I pushed it away. I believe if I thought too much about something like that, it's amazing what your heart, your breathing, your body, everything will do in response to that. It'll cause panic. My job in the military, that we. That was our job. We jumped out of helicopters, skewing down pilots. We were taught to never panic. Panic kills. So I suppressed it as much as I could, just stayed focused. Continue to cross that cornice traverse. And I could hear the 50 mile an hour gusts coming up over the ridge step and just hunker down, lower my center of mass and the wind would go over me. I'd stand up, take another step. Eventually got to where it started going back up because I had to climb up on the south summit, which is great because if you fall, you fall upward instead of downward. But it was a lot of work just climbing up. And then I got to the top and that's where I heard the pop and I lost one of my crampons. So the spikes on my boots and I'm like, I got. I have to get that. I can't get down without it.

[John Burke]

I mean, is that very common for them to pop off?

[Brian Dickinson]

It can be. I mean, it's so cold up there that the straps will loosen up over time. So usually you're torquing them down and just throughout all this, I don't know if going down Hillary Step, the rocks dislodged them. I just, I have no idea. That was the first time I'd ever lost one. Yeah, great, great time.

[John Burke]

Probably. Probably the fall down that 40ft maybe, I don't know.

[Brian Dickinson]

But I went to go get it. I had my cramp on foot and then my other foot just slipped out and I just, I fell head over heels. It was the scariest thing even to this day is just go to your roof, close your eyes, and jump off. Just so helpless. I'm falling for over a mile, and then the rope shock loads. Just the jerk of it. I'm upside down, my mask is ripped from my face, and my oxygen bottle is coming out of my pa. It took everything I had to write myself. I'm like side of a wall, right myself. And just slow my heart rate and my breathing and just get that calm.

[John Burke]

So I didn't understand this and let me make sure I understood. So your. Your crampon falls off and it. You're on a very steep face right now. Snow. And you don't know where it fell to?

[Brian Dickinson]

No. It's yellow with gray from steel, so almost impossible to see.

[John Burke]

And then you were going to try to work your way down there without a cramp on. And was it like an avalanche or what?

[Brian Dickinson]

Not. Not yet. So I know when you felt.

[John Burke]

You said you fell almost a mile.

[Brian Dickinson]

No, no, no. I would have fallen for a mile. Oh. But the road. No, no, no. The rope shock loaded me probably 20ft into it. So I. Okay, I was fully accelerating, and when I righted myself, I was getting my breathing down and looked up and there was this blurry object. So miracle. I don't know. Lost count. We'll call it two. I climb up to it. It's my crampon. And I remember just being so grateful and just strapping that thing on so hard and the other one, and I knew I needed to side traverse over to the rock wall to get down. And that's when a slab avalanche kicked off. So slab avalanche is heavier snow and ice on top of a lighter layer, which is very common. As soon as that kicked off, I mean, I accelerated. I grabbed the rope so fast it burned a line right through my leather glove. And I remember that pain, like feeling it. But I stopped. But my heart didn't stop, my breathing. Everything just. It got me right back to that place and I had to just hold. Hold on tight and just slow myself again.

[John Burke]

So were you falling in this avalanche?

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, it swept my feet out from under me.

[John Burke]

But you had the line in your hand still, and that's when it just. You were trying to hold on and it just dug right through your leather into your hand.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yep. Yeah. I still got the glove sitting up in my wall of artifacts.

[John Burke]

So that's. That's miracle three right there. Because how in the world. Why. Why in the world did you not just go down with the whole avalanche?

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, well, fortunately, the rope, the anchor points weren't into the part that kicked off. They're part of over on the rock area and they're secure like ice screws into some bulletproof ice. So. But yeah, I'm sure I loosened the, the anchor a little bit, but I, I eventually got to the rock wall, got down, and I almost walked right past my oxygen that Pasang had stashed. I knew I was going to be out soon. And it was just this bright orange thing. I remember. I just, I walked back to it and I, like laid down next to it, fumbled around with my regulator and got it connected and it just, it wouldn't work. Like, I don't, I don't know why. I didn't have all day to troubleshoot, so I put my other one back on and, and I don't know why again, to this day, I put that extra £15 in my pack. It's like our mindset just focused. I'm taking this back with me and just continued moving and so, so your.

[John Burke]

Primary oxygen is almost out. And what happens if you run out?

[Brian Dickinson]

There's a good chance you won't die or you'll die. You won't survive. It's. Once you come off oxygen, it's. It's pretty much game over because your.

[John Burke]

Body'S acclimated to the oxygen.

[Brian Dickinson]

Your body's acc. It would drop. It would crank me up probably 2 to 3,000ft. So that's what the oxygen helps kind of reduce that. And I think everything that I was going through at that point, I was, I was definitely in a state of, you know, survival and, you know, who knows how close to the edge I was. But I was so focused and just continued moving, though. I just, I never stopped. I had to find a reason. Just keep moving forward. Emily Jordan, Joanna Step. And just never again. Just never felt alone. It's like, it's the weirdest thing to, you know, not really focus on, but it's just like it's there like after the fact, you know, it's like, like.

[John Burke]

More, more so than like, like we know God is always with us, but this is, this is more than that.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, I've. I've never felt such a tangible presence in my life ever.

[John Burke]

And you think that was the Lord or an angel or. Don't know.

[Brian Dickinson]

And. Yeah, I don't know. Guardian angel, Holy Spirit, Jesus saying, keep trying to do it on your own, dummy. I'm right here. Just ask for help. Is that, that's what I believe.

[John Burke]

Yeah. Because you were, you were still kind of just gutting it out, like. Yeah, your training going in and it's like all your air sea rescue stuff and stay focused for sure.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, yeah. Just brute force. I'm going, I will not die on this mountain. I got to the balcony and, you know, called out. Pasang wasn't there. So I assumed he went down, got a snack. And then from there I actually felt like, happy. Like, you know, there's only like 20 some pitches of repel. Like, I can do this. It's all just gravity. Get down. And once I started, you know, maybe 20 yards into it, my mask just sinks into my. Collapses on my face. And I ran out of oxygen. And at this point, it was about 33 hours from the day prior to this point that I'd been continually climbing completely blind, lost 20.

[John Burke]

You'd been climbing for 33 hours straight.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, yeah, there was that normal. Yeah, because you don't really get any rest other than just kind of sitting in a tent before you make a summit attempt. So the day prior, it's. It's a big day or big two days, I guess.

[John Burke]

Yeah.

[Brian Dickinson]

But, yeah, at that moment, I. I couldn't go on. I couldn't do it myself anymore. And I just dropped to my knees and prayed. And it was simple. I just said, God, I cannot do this alone. Please help me. And at that moment, around the world, like, my wife was stirred awake back in Seattle. It's like, Brian, something's going on. I need. I need to pray for him. My best friend, David. Kind of bad timing.

[John Burke]

It's all right. He was.

[Brian Dickinson]

No, it's Brian. Yeah, he's my best friend. Just, Brian needs help. It's extra sad right now because he just passed away two days ago.

[John Burke]

Oh, man, I'm so sorry.

[Brian Dickinson]

Brain tumor.

[John Burke]

Well, and you got. I remember reading you got letters from like three or four or five people in your church or other people who triangulated it back and realized, oh, my gosh, I. I was stirred to pray for Brian. And it was that time when you had just summited and it's.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah, people I didn't even know. People that knew of me or knew I was climbing, I guess just. It's so overwhelming and powerful. But in that moment, I say that prayer. All that's happening peripherally.

[John Burke]

And did you think you were going to die at that point?

[Brian Dickinson]

I couldn't go on by myself anymore. And then we just witnessed a miracle. I mean, I. I felt like. It's like someone lifted me up, like just reached down, grabbed me, picked me up. I had this unexplained energy, and the first thing I did was try that oxygen bottle that previously failed. And I got a positive flow. And I remember the. The air entering my body, my veins and everything, it burned. It, like, physically burned. Felt like fire. Never experienced anything like that. I didn't overthink it. Just put everything back together and just started moving down the hill and eventually made it to the last quarter mile, which is this ice bulge. And at that point, I didn't know if I was alive or not. I remember looking out and seeing. I thought it was people waving at me. It was just so bright white. And I'd get closer, and then it'd be a rock. And so I'd like, stupid rock. And then out of nowhere, Pasang, he just. He hugs me. I never saw him coming. He's like, brian, you alive? He's like, I'm so sorry I leave you. That was my first indication that I was alive. I remember telling him, don't worry about it, dude. Pretty chill. And we got back, stumbled back to the high camp, and I collapsed. I was out for, like, 15 hours, my eyes glued shut. I wouldn't regain my eyesight for about a month and a half.

[John Burke]

Wow.

[Brian Dickinson]

But I was around people.

[John Burke]

And did it fully come back?

[Brian Dickinson]

I don't know. I. I say no. It accelerated for sure. My just being aging and everything. The doctors say it's. Oh, you're just getting, like, kind of cause and effect. Yeah, that was good. And now I'm not. But, yeah, I can see. So, I mean, that's. And I had Lasik and everything.

[John Burke]

Yeah, well. And so. So was it pretty smooth from there? I mean, relatively.

[Brian Dickinson]

No, no getting down. It's. It's a. It's a straight wall of ice and rock. You know, getting down low. Tse face, getting.

[John Burke]

And now are you. You're going all the way down blind still?

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah. Yeah. And it's. And it's during the day, so it's extremely bright. So I. I borrowed someone else' goals. Like, a tinted pair. That helped. They had, like, an extra pair. And actually Pasang had an extra pair, and. Or maybe I gave him my sunglasses, I don't know. Anyways, I had some goggles, and that helped a little bit, but it was so bright. And I got down the base of bloats. I almost stepped into a crevasse. See it? And someone, like, stopped me, like, hey. Held my hand and got me across.

[John Burke]

Wow.

[Brian Dickinson]

The worst phone call in history from Camp 2. Borrowed a SAT phone, had them dial her number Just told her I soloed and I'm blind. And then the phone cut out, and that's where I left her. She's still with me. I don't know why, but now it's. She was having her miracle as well, thanks to the 6060 challenge. I mean, that was huge for her, but I got down across the ladders and everything. The next day, I went through the. I woke up really early just because, you know, one. It's dangerous, but also it was just so bright. That took a while. Got there. The Sherpa had made a summit cake, like, congratulatory cake for me, and that was cool. Couldn't see, but tasted okay.

[John Burke]

You ate it?

[Brian Dickinson]

I ate it. And I had about an hour I spent talking to Joanna. So that was. We were just. Yeah. Just talking through it and crying and praying I was well.

[John Burke]

And you. You told me, you know, coming back there was a lot. Got a lot more to process, even, like, PTSD from that experience. Can you talk a little bit about that and what. What you feel like God has been doing in you or showing you from that experience?

[Brian Dickinson]

It's tough. What I've. What I realized and have empathy for now is everybody loves a survival story, but they don't much care about the survivor and what they're going through. Sorry.

[John Burke]

The crampon falling off again.

[Brian Dickinson]

Lost a grandpa. Getting back. Yeah. Like, you know, Fox News and, you know, I'm on stage and there's bright lights. I'm still blind, and everyone wants to hear the story, and I'm just. I'm weeping, and it's. It's not even so much because I almost died. It's the miracle that I witnessed, you know, not feeling worthy of. When there's 300 bodies up there, why am I alive? It started unlocking trauma from my childhood and from the military that I had suppressed for so many years. Got really good at, but just moving forward and not dealing with. And also just that point. I tried so hard to do it on my own, and I reached a point I couldn't. And so cause and effect, snap of the fingers. God's there. He's like, thank you. I got it from here. Yeah.

[John Burke]

And kind of. I mean. Yeah. The miracle of you making it alone, blind down that. I mean, if you read the whole book, just, Just. Just the going up is a miracle that you can make it. But then coming down through what you did, it's. It's obvious that God. God had a reason to keep. Keep Brian here.

[Brian Dickinson]

And.

[John Burke]

And. And you said survivor's guilt What?

[Brian Dickinson]

Well, there's so many bodies up there. I mean, they're all chasing their dream. They're trying to figure out their purpose.

[John Burke]

Kind of like why didn't, why didn't.

[Brian Dickinson]

They get a. Yeah, the same in the military, you know, rescue, swap out with someone in a helicopter. The helicopter crashes, they all die. Like, okay. Why? It's a, is a game of, you know, opportunity and choices sometimes. But yeah, like, I guess when it's your time to go, it's your time to go. But. And it's just, it's sad, but I know I've had the opportunity to talk to a lot of people because of this experience, to be a motivational speaker and even have Joanna on stage with me as a Christian counselor talking about, you know, trauma and near death experiences and people that haven't been able to share their stories like ever until, you know, we were vulnerable enough to share ours and just have that one on one connection and help them in their space, in their walk.

[John Burke]

What kind of things do you feel like God has taught you through this? That like you share, that's helping others?

[Brian Dickinson]

A lot of what God's taught me is to get out of my own way, stop trying to do it on my own, quit taking credit for everything he's done about that's still about my story, but about sharing that. And it, I think it just, it reframes it for others to maybe just take a step back and realize, you know, how much of this am I hammering and brute forcing and trying to, to do on my own when I need to be truly asking God in all things the Lord? I don't know. I wasn't brought up that way and I was definitely, I pivoted on Everest. There's Brian 1.0 and 2.0 in it around that moment.

[John Burke]

Well, and you know, I think that's. We don't all have as exciting of stories as you do, but, but I think we all do come to those moments where we're pressing and pushing the whole, the whole 60. 60 came about when my wife and I had started this church to reach skeptics and people who struggle. And you know, our motto is no perfect people allowed. Just come, come, doubters welcome. And, and they did. And we were reaching all these people, but we kept, we kept getting kicked out of one location after another, like six in, in a two year span. And we kept losing people and I couldn't. And you know, I mean it, it sounds trivial in light of what you just shared, but I, I became very frustrated with God I was like, well, I thought you wanted me to do this. And, and, and so why don't you step in and do something? Why. Why does this keep happening? You know, it's kind of like, where are you? And I really. I really got frustrated and I finally, one day I came to the end of myself and I realized I'm not okay with God's will if God's will is not what I think God's will should be. Which basically means I get to play God. And if you don't do what I'm expecting or hoping, I'm going to be disappointed and frustrated and even angry and maybe just go my own way. And that actually is what the 60, 60 came out of, is, is we were reaching so many people who had really serious addictions who had to take it one day at a time. God, your will in this next moment, not mine. And that's. That was it. And that's. That was kind of the, the beginning of recovery. And I started working that. That for letting go of the church, having to go the way I think it should, which sounds hilarious, but. But it's really where God met me. And when I finally let go of that, then all these other things started. Started to happen. But. But it was never a one time letting go, I should say, because it came back around again and a few years later. And it's just like peeling the onion. Right. It goes deeper and deeper to the, to the core of it. But I think that does. You know, I think your story just gives a lot of hope to people who have been through a lot or are just having to persevere through a lot.

[Brian Dickinson]

Yeah. And everyone is right. And in my talks, I mean, I don't. If I try to do a. Here's what happened to me on Everest, like, no one can relate, thank goodness. Right. But I know that every person in the crowd is going through something or has gone through something. So make it about them, you know. In what area of your life are you trying so hard to do it on your own? Well, here's an example where I, I tried and I almost succeeded. And where would I be today? I don't know.

[John Burke]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's so incredibly motivating, Brian. I, I so appreciate you taking the time to, to share it. And I would really encourage anybody who listens to this to go get Blind Descent. You. You'll read it in the weekend because you won't be able to put it down. Just. Just a great book, but also just an incredible story of many miracles. God meeting you when you came to the end. And we're glad you're here and glad you're continuing on.

[Brian Dickinson]

Thank you. Appreciate it.

[John Burke]

Well, I know that wasn't the normal NDE interview that I do because Brian, you know, was not clinically dead and he didn't have an afterlife experience like most of my interviews, but wasn't that the most intriguing story? I mean, I had no idea what it took to climb Mount Everest. I'll put the link to Blind Descent, Brian's book in the show notes if you want to check it out. But let me talk just briefly about two things. One, the terminology of near death experience. And then secondly, as we start this new year, I want to help you potentially face your own seemingly impossible mountains and overcome as, as I explain more of this 6060 experiment that Brian was talking about that I think will lead you on the adventure of a lifetime as well. So, first of all, near death experience terminology can be kind of confusing. You know, Brian was near death, so he did have a near death experience because God really did intervene in a miraculous way. But it didn't have any of the 40 commonalities really, that I trace in Imagine Heaven in this journey into the afterlife with those people who have clinically died. In my research of, you know, now close to probably a thousand five hundred or so near death experiences, I focus in on clinical death experiences. People who have actually had a cardiac arrest or something has happened where there's no heartbeat or, or brain waves, and they talk about having this experience of the afterlife. Now it probably should be called either an after death experience, an ade, or an afterlife experience. I think that would, that would work better. And when I wrote Imagine Heaven Back in 2015, I thought about trying to create some new term. This is before YouTube or videos or podcasts were talking about them at all. However, the term near death experience had been out there for about 30 years. You know, I started studying NDEs when my dad died in the early 80s. That's when I read the book by Dr. Moody, which was the first study that coined the term near death experience. And that book, as you know, probably set me on a journey from an agnostic to a believer, and eventually to a pastor, researcher and writer. But the reason Moody called it near death experience is because sometimes people report having some of the same commonalities before they have an actual clinical death. Like as they are dying or before they clinically die, they leave their body. They might be above the accident, have peace. So they have some of those commonalities. For instance, Riley who I just put out a clip on and I did an interview with her on the podcast. She's the one who had the jet ski accident that blew a hole in her stomach. She was bleeding out, her intestines were coming out. But before her heart technically stopped, she left her body and saw, you know, her body there still dying, and then traveled in this portal and had this incredible conversation with God, sees God, leaves as an agnostic and comes back as a believer in Jesus. So, I mean, how do you explain that? Right? But the commonalities she reported align with what others having clinical Deaths and reporting NDEs often say. So sometimes it's as people are nearing death that it appears our soul can be released, you know, even before the, the heart stops or, or the brain ceases. Now, again, I've tried to focus my research on, on clinical death with, with some kind of evidence like hospital records or photos or others confirming it, or they, they paid a price in some way for their near death experience story. And mainly because my focus is on helping skeptics like I was see the evidence. And this adds some level of credibility. So for instance, people will reach out to me and they'll say, like, well, I had this vision or I had a very vivid dream, and they'll describe a heavenly experience. And many times they'll report commonalities that do align, but I just don't, you know, in with my skeptic hat on. I just don't know. I'm not saying they're lying. I, I just don't, I don't know. And so I've really tried to focus on those who, who paid a price for their testimony. So anyway, in 2015, I wrote Imagine Heaven. And I chose to keep using the term near death experience because I really wanted to help people see what was really lacking, which was the connection to realize that all these commonalities people regularly report are in the Bible. It's what God has been pointing to all along. And I believe these are testimonies really meant to lead us back to God and to the hope of heaven. And that's what I was trying to do. Okay, so that clears up hopefully a little confusion about terminology. Now let me tell you briefly the rest of the story about the 66 Deacon challenge. And I want to challenge you to do it in this new year. I am, I'm starting over again. And like I said, the way it came about is I was feeling overwhelmed and powerless, even as a, as a pastor. And I've come to realize that's exactly where God Wants to meet us, you know, not in our strength and our pride, where we're like, isn't God lucky to have me on his team? That's, that's not the heart God loves. God loves a contrite and a humble heart. And when people come to the end of themselves, you know, many times it's when people hit rock bottom that they finally let go of trying to play God, like, say, my will be done. And, and they look to God so they, they have a surrender, a letting go, and a looking to God. That was like Brian's moment moment, you know, for me, like I said, in the early days of our church, you know, we would say, no perfect people allowed. That was our motto, and come as you are. And, and we were reaching many addicts who started telling me about the things I was teaching and how they align with the 12 steps. And I, I didn't know anything about the 12 steps. And I started to read the big book and other things, and I realized these were taken from the Bible. It actually started in a, in a small group group in an Episcopal Church. And it was really an incredible spiritual formation path. I mean, the first three are steps or, you know, step one, basically realize you're powerless, you know, to, to just overcome your. Your struggle on your own. And so it, it leads to a, a contrite heart and a humble heart. And the second step is to realize there is a greater power. In other words, God is there and he's with you and willing to help, help if you're willing to turn to Him. And that's step three. You completely surrender your will to doing God's will, moment by moment, day by day, one day, just taking it one day at a time. And so I started to work this and, and there, there are other steps that really are about confession and a moral inventory and, and cleaning out all skeletons in your relational closet and then putting practices in place to stay daily connected to God. So I was doing this, and I was blown away. I mean, these areas of struggle that I'd had just started to fade away, become less and less of a struggle as I concentrated on this one thing. Just stay connected. Stay in the moments of the day, more and more to God's spirit willing to do his will as, as I understand it. And the most surprising thing, you guys, is the intense joy after I practiced this.

[Brian Dickinson]

For.

[John Burke]

It was probably, you know, four months or so, and this intense joy would just overwhelm me and for no reason at all. And it truly was. Was surprising. And as I'm Doing this experiment. I think, think God led me to John, chapter 15. And I realized this is exactly what Jesus was trying to get across his last night on earth. He was trying to say this to the, to the disciples. This is the most important thing. And the book Soul Revolution I wrote is all about that. John chapter, chapters 13 through 17, which are all about his. This one thing I think he was trying to get across. But he summarizes it like this. John 15, verses 4 and 5, and verse 11. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. Jesus said, for a branch cannot produce fruit if it's severed from the vine. And you cannot produce fruit unless you remain in me. In other words, you got to stay connected to God, to his spirit.

[Brian Dickinson]

It.

[John Burke]

Yes, I am the vine, you are branches. Those who remain in me, and I in them will produce much fruit. Apart from me, you can do nothing. Okay, that's critical. If we disconnect, if we live disconnected from God in His spirit, we can do nothing. Now. We can do lots of things. But what he means is nothing of spiritual significance, nothing of eternal value.

[Brian Dickinson]

You.

[John Burke]

And then he said, I've told you these things so that you will be filled with my joy. Yes, your joy will overflow. So I. I read that, and I realized this. Spiritual practice is the one thing Jesus said is most important. Because apart from this, we can do nothing that he created us to do and to be and to become. But doing this one thing, everything else takes care of itself. Stay connected. Good fruit grows naturally, you know, and. And if you think about it, it makes sense. A branch doesn't have to try real hard to make good fruit. It just stays connected to a good vine, and good fruit grows naturally. What kind of fruit? What is it? Well, Paul actually is talking about the same thing In Galatians, chapter 5, verses 16 through 23, when he says, so I say, let the Holy Spirit guide your lives. Then you won't be doing what your sinful nature craves. But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control. See, Paul's saying the same thing. This is the same one thing. Stay connected moment by moment, letting God's Spirit guide you. And those sin struggles lose their grip, you know, you. You instead see naturally the fruit of love and joy and peace and patience and even self control starting to grow naturally within your life. And that's why this is such a freeing practice. It truly is revolutionary, you know, just like a branch doesn't have to try real hard doesn't have to white knuckle, you know, for grapes to grow. We don't either. We just have to learn how to stay connected to God's spirit, moment by moment. And that's what Jesus was trying to say again and again, his last night on earth. And that's why I wrote the book Soul Revolution about that last night on earth. And this one thing he's trying to pound in over and over. Because you don't have to try real hard to overcome addictions in your own power. You don't have to try real hard to stop worry or envy or judging others or impatience or anger or, you know, any struggle. There's only one thing you have to do. Stay connected to God's spirit, moment by moment, in this ongoing conversation with a heart that's willing to. To do his will. And just like Jesus said and like I personally experienced, you know, joy starts to flow in your life. Good things start to come. Now, I had been a Christian for decades, and I was a pastor, but I had never experienced such freedom and joy as when I started practicing this. And so I'm. I'm mowing the lawn one day, and I'm just talking to God about it because I was now in this habit of talking to God about everything and seeing him, you know, honestly learning how to hear his voice and respond. And then you see, and I was saying to him, I wish our whole church could just taste how good this is. I would have never believed it. And I heard in my thoughts, do an experiment, which I've realized that's how the spirit, Spirit speaks to us. And that's how the 6060 idea came about. And now thousands of people have done it. And I put many of their testimonies in Soul Revolution, so, so people could, could see kind of how it works. And, and the results. Now, if you have read my writings, even imagine heaven or imagine the God of heaven or, or heard other podcasts, you'll hear me talk about this a lot. And here's why. There's nothing more important. I mean, if Jesus said, it's the same thing Jesus said to Mary and Martha, you know, when he said to Martha, Mary has chosen the one thing that is necessary and it won't be taken from her. And what was she doing? She was listening to Jesus, right? And, and, and this is that same one thing. So some of you I know will say, like, oh, I already know this. This is abiding in Christ, or it's walking in the spirit. And this is the problem, because so many Christians Me included know about this, but do we actually practice it in a daily kind of way? And, and it either becomes a habit or you end up in other habits. But I'm convinced this is how soul we learn to listen and respond to God's spirit and actually do life with God. So in this I'm not, I'm not trying to sell you Soul Revolution. In fact, I realized you can go out on Amazon right now and type in Soul Revolution. Look on the left side where it has the, the little Soul Revolution. And it says under read a sample and you can read chapters one through three for free. And, and you'll really be able to get more context to this experiment. But I'm, I'm going to explain it to you. By the way, I'm not the only one who's done this or written about it. A guy named Frank Lawbach, I just, I just reread his book practicing his presence. He was a guy in the early 1900s. Another guy, Brother Lawrence was in the 1500s. And they say the same thing that, that I discovered. But anyway, here's, here's the experiment is the main human sin problem is this. I wake up each morning and my habit is to wake up thinking how do I get my will done today on earth and in heaven? Now I don't say that, but it's how I just habitually live. And I don't. I go through the day and I won't even consider that God is with me and loves me. He's actually willing to speak to me and my thoughts and guide me and wants to do life with me and even help me in every area of my life. But I have to be willing. I have to be willing to seek his will, not just my own will. In other words, I have to surrender playing God and just trying to get my will done on earth and heaven and let the real God be God throughout the minutes and hours of my day. So the truth is I, and I think most people, if you just check your yourself live in the habit of disconnection from God. Now most habits take at least 60 days to change. So that's where the 6060 challenge comes into play is. The challenges take 60 days here in this new year. And again I'm going to do it it go all out and see if you aren't ecstatic with the results. See if it's not a better way to live. Going all out doing life with God, seeking his will, not just your own. And again, you know, you can read the testimonies in Soul Revolution. It's not just me who has found that this is so much better. And that's why I put them in there. Because so many of us are scared of losing something.

[Brian Dickinson]

Something.

[John Burke]

So we don't want to be fully willing to do whatever we sense God wants us to do because we're scared we're going to have to do something we don't want and. And we're not going to like it. Well, that's the challenge for 60 days. Set reminders every 60 minutes. Okay? It can be a watch alarm that goes off every 60 minutes. You can put little sticky notes on your computer screen or on your car dashboard. You're just trying to remind yourself throughout the day. Stay connected it. We also created a free app. I know it's still in, in the App Store for iPhones and I think it's in the Google for Androids, but I'm not totally sure. But it's simple. You know, just when you are reminded each hour or throughout that hour. And no, you don't have to keep doing it when you're sleeping. Yes, I get that question. Okay, just sleep. But. But the goal is when you are reminded, you just reconnect with God. You're trying to talk over everything with God, listening for his will, willing to do it, or do what you sense him saying to do all throughout the day. Okay, now, warning. You will fail much more than you succeed. I still do, you know, I've started this again in the new year, and I failed way more than I've succeeded so far. But that's also where you realize why Jesus died. To pay not only for all our sins, but all our shortcomings, all our failures, which all of them start with my will be done. And I couldn't give a rip about your will, God. That's the. That's the core human issue. So what you realize, though, and this is so important, is Jesus didn't die just to forgive us, so we'll one day be in heaven with us, Him. Jesus died to reconnect us to God's spirit, so we would do life with him every moment of every day, experiencing more of his love and his joy in our lives so that then we can be more like him to the world. And so this experiment is just actually doing that. Not just knowing about it, but actually learning about it. And if you will go all out, you will reach new heights. You'll see a great adventure. Adventure with God. You know, maybe not like Brian had, but like I had and like many others have, have testified to. So again. Just go read the Free Soul Revolution, chapters one through three and decide if you're going to do it. And I'll be doing it with you as we start this new year. Well, I hope this inspired you. I know it was a little different, and we'll go back to the way it was before, but. But for the new year, I just thought this could be a great blessing. So until next episode, be blessed.