Podcast Summary: Imagine Heaven Podcast with John Burke

Episode: NDEs, Neuroscience, and the Soul with Dr. Lee Warren

Date: September 26, 2025
Host: John Burke
Guest: Dr. Lee Warren (Neurosurgeon, Author)

Episode Overview

This engaging episode features a deep-dive conversation between John Burke, pastor and author of Imagine Heaven, and Dr. Lee Warren, neurosurgeon and trauma survivor. They explore the crossroads of near-death experience (NDE) research, neuroscience, and faith, grappling with profound questions about consciousness, the existence of the soul, free will, neuroplasticity, epigenetics, and how our thoughts can both heal and bind us. The discussion skillfully connects scientific findings with biblical truths and personal stories, aiming to illuminate what happens after we die and how our minds shape our reality—even across generations.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins of the Collaboration

[03:31-06:00]

• John and Lee reflect on their initial connection: how Lee, who suffered great personal loss, sought understanding through NDE research, discovering John’s work.
• Both share a “geeky” passion for exploring how modern neuroscience and quantum mechanics overlap with spiritual and biblical realities.

Quote:
“After our son died, I had a real kind of crisis of needing to know for sure that these things that I believed were true... seeing it with my own eyes led me to this now 12-year long journey of really digging into what's the difference between our brains and our minds and our souls.”
— Dr. Lee Warren [06:01]

2. Materialism, Neuroscience, and the Existence of the Soul

[06:01-14:00]

• Materialism (the idea that only matter is real) has dominated science, but is now being challenged by both evidence and leading scientists.
• The foundational work of scientists like Wilder Penfield and observations from functional MRI scanning show “mind” dictating changes in the brain, not just the other way around.

Key Moment:
Dr. Warren explains seeing a woman in a brain scanner choose different thoughts, which showed up as immediately altered brain activity and physical responses:
“We saw that mind and brain can't be the same thing. Mind was telling brain to do something.”
— Dr. Lee Warren [13:43]

3. Penfield’s Evidence for the Mind/Soul

[17:40-22:59]

• Penfield’s "awake brain surgery" experiments reveal that stimulating parts of the brain can produce movement or speech, but the conscious self is always aware: “You made me do that.”
• Abstract thought, self-awareness, and certain memories cannot be triggered by brain events—suggesting an immaterial mind or soul.

Notable Quote:
“Who’s the ‘I’ that’s saying ‘you did that’? They shouldn’t have a perception beyond what I just made their brain do. And yet they did.”
— John Burke, [21:09]

4. NDEs as Evidence of the Soul and Afterlife

[30:53-36:00]

• The conversation highlights data showing NDEs defy brain-based explanations:
  • Verified out-of-body observations during clinical death
  • Commonalities of experience regardless of culture or medical status (even among blind people)
  • Consistent descriptions of places, occurrences, and beings (sometimes matching biblical accounts)

Key Study:
Dr. Jan Holden’s research: “92% of observations by NDErs are completely accurate... So how can people now deny the soul with all of the science and all of the empirical evidence that’s out there?”
— John Burke [33:30-35:51]

5. Faith, Science, and the Trajectory of Discovery

[36:32-39:22]

• Science in areas such as cosmology, evolutionary biology, and neuroscience increasingly echoes truths found in Scripture.
• Both John and Lee urge humility and open-mindedness: “Science bends toward things that scripture laid out as truth… If it says this archeological fact is true, they’re going to discover it eventually.”

Quote:
“If you’re confused or worried about science and faith conflicting, friend, just wait. Over time... science bends towards things that scripture laid out as truth.”
— Dr. Lee Warren [36:44]

6. The Practical “So What”—Neuroplasticity & Transformation

[41:01-53:39]

• Lee shares his grief and transformation after his son’s unsolved murder, highlighting the false but common view that we can’t change our brain or responses.
• Latest neuroscience reveals our brains and personalities are continually being rewired (“every cell in your brain is turned over every few years”).
• The key to transformation: conscious choice and thought patterns.
• Aligns closely with biblical wisdom: “Be transformed by the renewing of your mind.” (Romans 12:2)

Memorable Quote:
“We're born looking like our parents, but we die looking like our decisions.”
— TD Jakes via Dr. Lee Warren [52:25]

7. Epigenetics: Generational Transmission of Traits and Trauma

[61:13-69:47]

• Epigenetics demonstrates that trauma, behavior, and even thought patterns can affect genetic expression, passing on to several generations.
  • Mice experiments: trauma-induced gene switches passed to offspring for multiple generations.
• John applies this to biblical statements about “sins of the fathers” and shares personal examples of inherited patterns.

Quote:
“There are laws of nature, but there are also spiritual laws… God is just basically warning us about what epigenetics and neuroscience is now discovering.”
— John Burke [64:59]

8. Free Will, Quantum Mechanics, and God’s Design

[74:42-79:12]

• Benjamin Libet’s neuroscience experiments and the double-slit experiment in quantum physics both hint at the physical reality of free will and the observer effect.
• Decisions—and even choosing not to act—change physical outcomes, consistent with the biblical worldview.

Notable Insight:
“Why this matters is… the choices that you make in your life change the reality of how your life plays out.”
— Dr. Lee Warren [79:17]

9. The Reality of Heaven: NDE Accounts Across Cultures

[82:13-91:04]

• John summarizes consistent reports from NDEs: people of different faiths, backgrounds, even blindness, describe the same heavenly “city” and encounter the God of light—often in ways that align with biblical descriptions.
• Many NDErs suffer ridicule or risk loss by sharing their stories, yet are compelled by truth.

Quote:
“Why would a Hindu manufacturing engineer, how would a blind kid, and why would two commercial airline pilots make up a story of seeing the same heavenly city that John (the Apostle) did?”
— John Burke [84:48]

10. NDEs, Epigenetics & “Past Lives” – Alternative Hypotheses

[88:49-96:33]

• John theorizes that “past life” memories reported during NDEs are more likely ancestral/epigenetic memories rather than reincarnation.
• Near-death experiencers often see generational pain and are called by God to “break the chain” (heal the trait/trauma line).

11. Practical Self-Brain Surgery: How to Transform Your Mind and Life

[97:30-109:05]

• Lee emphasizes “self brain surgery”—changing thought habits is real, physical, and immediately alters brain structure.
• Begins with “thought biopsies”—scrutinizing and consciously redirecting which thoughts get attention.
• The Bible’s call to renew the mind is backed by neuroscience: what you focus on literally shapes your brain.
• Discusses the “reticular activating system”—the brain’s habitual filtering. Focus on truth and positivity, and the brain will help you see more of it in life.

Practical Example:
“If you know that 80% of your thoughts aren't true, then get in a habit of thinking about what you're thinking about… That will become an automated habit, and you'll begin to renew your mind and live in this renewed mind that Paul talks about.”
— Dr. Lee Warren [99:50-101:47]

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Suffering and Hope:
  “I knew that we were either going to be these bitter, broken people ... or we were going to have to trust that God's sovereignty could be enough for us.”
  — Dr. Lee Warren [43:44]

• On Jesus and the Mind:
  “Every thought that Jesus thought improved his brain structurally, and he prepared his brain to support him in the worst moment of his life—which was in the garden… We can too.”
  — Dr. Lee Warren [101:48]

• On Biblical Neuroscience:
  “It’s literally Romans 12:2: be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Change what you think about, you change what your life turns out to be.”
  — Dr. Lee Warren [53:39]

Episode Structure & Timestamps

• [03:31] Introduction of John and Lee’s backgrounds
• [06:01] Lee’s personal journey: loss, faith, and neuroscience
• [13:43] Real-time observation: Thoughts change the brain
• [17:40] Penfield’s brain surgery research and the soul
• [30:53] NDEs: Blind people “see” & verifiable out-of-body evidence
• [33:30] Jan Holden’s cardiac arrest studies
• [41:01] Rewiring trauma: Lee’s story
• [51:25] Your decisions rewrite your destiny
• [61:13] Epigenetics: Generational trauma (mice and humans)
• [74:42] Quantum physics, free will, and faith
• [82:13] Multiverse, heaven, and NDE testimonies
• [97:30] Lee’s “self brain surgery” method
• [104:44] John’s personal transformation through focused thought
• [109:05] Resources and closing thoughts

Further Resources

• John Burke:

  • Imagine Heaven and Imagine the God of Heaven (Books)
  • imagineheaven.net
  • Imagine Heaven Podcast

• Dr. Lee Warren:

  • The Dr. Lee Warren Podcast, drleewarren.com
  • Newsletter on Substack
  • The Life-Changing Art of Self Brain Surgery (Book, out Feb 2025)

Takeaway Themes

• Modern neuroscience is increasingly consistent with the biblical concepts of the soul, mind, free will, and life beyond death.
• Near-Death Experiences provide unique empirical and testimonial evidence for consciousness surviving physical death.
• Our thoughts and habits, and the choices we make, truly shape not only our brain structure and life path but can impact future generations.
• By consciously managing our thought lives—supported by faith and neuroplasticity—we can transform our own and others’ futures.
• Science and faith are not in conflict; together, they deepen our understanding of what it means to be truly human.