Teen's Jet Ski Tragedy Leads to a Startling Near-Death Experience

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Podcast: Imagine Heaven Podcast with John Burke

Episode: Teen's Jet Ski Tragedy Leads to a Startling Near-Death Experience

Air Date: August 26, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, John Burke, author of Imagine Heaven, welcomes Riley Huddleston to share her extraordinary near-death experience (NDE) as a 19-year-old, resulting from a traumatic jet ski accident. Riley’s story is a profound exploration of the afterlife, encountering God, spiritual revelations, and how her understanding of love, purpose, and faith were transformed through her experience. The conversation weaves together Riley’s personal background, the details of her accident, her visions of heaven, life review, and deep theological insights, challenging listeners to consider what really happens after we die.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Background: The Accident and Its Aftermath

• Context: Riley was a year out of high school, enjoying a carefree day at Lake Cypress Springs with friends. What started as innocent fun ended in a life-altering accident when Riley fell from a jet ski and suffered shocking internal injuries from the waterjet (07:16).
• Immediate response: She experienced severe trauma, with her organs exposed, losing consciousness as friends and bystanders rapidly moved her to shore while emergency teams arrived (09:48).

Memorable quote:
"As we were coming up to the shore, I mean, I'm bleeding, and I realize chunks of my organs and intestines are starting to fall out of my body."
— Riley (10:10)

2. The Near-Death Experience: Out-of-Body Awareness

• Riley describes feeling her body failing, an overwhelming peaceful detachment as she leaves her body, and the pain vanishing:
  "I just went from being in the worst pain I've ever felt... to nothing... It was almost like a relief. I could breathe again."
  — Riley (15:22)
• She observes her physical body in the ambulance, while her consciousness is aware and lucid (14:36).

3. Journey to the ‘Hole in the Sky’ and Realization of God

• Riley describes “ascending into what looked to me like a hole in the sky... a light was coming out of the hole,” feeling irresistibly drawn toward it (16:54).
• As she ascends, she suddenly knows intuitively that "God is real... this is God's world" (19:23). Despite being indifferent and spiritually confused before her accident, she’s overwhelmed by a direct, undeniable awareness of God’s reality.

Notable moment:
"Now, I'm more sure than I was even sure that I lived a life on earth. This is more real to me than what life I just lived was."
— Riley (28:44)

4. Spiritual Downloads and Visions

• Instant knowledge: Riley describes being "uploaded" with profound knowledge—God explaining that it was only through Jesus that she could enter heaven, even though she had never understood or believed in Jesus before (25:40).
• Generational Curse: She is shown a visceral ancestral vision, witnessing a generational pattern of “lust and divorce” in her family, tracing pain through her lineage (33:03, 36:44).
• Comedy in Heaven: Riley describes seeing a comedy club in heaven, highlighting God’s sense of humor and the continuation of joys and personal traits on the other side (43:43).
• Heavenly beauty: She witnesses people, pets, nature, and colors unlike those on earth, all harmonizing in worship (46:34). Purpose, gifts, and joy abound:
  “They had purpose... God revealed to me that he gives us a spiritual gift on earth, and we choose if we want to use it or not. But you will use it in heaven.” (49:15)

Vivid depiction:
"It's like Earth, but just beautiful. More beautiful, more vibrant. But then there's colors that don't exist here."
— Riley (47:05)

5. The Wall of Heaven and Biblical Parallels

• Riley vividly recalls an ornate, gemstone-adorned, translucent wall—a beautiful, immense barrier. John points out this mirrors the description in Revelation 21 (56:19), a parallel Riley had never read—further affirming the spiritual authenticity of her experience.

6. Life Review and Divine Perspective on Death

• Riley undergoes a life review, re-experiencing every moment of love in her life—down to forgotten details and the last phone call with her sister (71:46).
• She is also given a flash-forward, seeing how her tragic death would affect her family, both emotionally and spiritually (61:38).
• God answers her lifelong question of why people die so horribly, revealing that “the way that we die, we're not there”—the soul is already in God’s presence (64:49).
• This challenge to earthly perceptions brings hope for those who grieve violent or tragic loss:
  "You might be watching someone suffer, but they might not be there, because my body was suffering... but I was having this whole separate experience." (65:09)

7. Encounter with God: Choice, Repentance, and Grace

• In the climax of her experience, Riley enters dazzling light and stands “in the presence of God” (84:13).
• God communicates:
  "Life back there was about me. He said, love is a choice. I am love. You didn't choose me." (88:55)
• Riley feels God’s hurt at her indifference, dropping to her knees in repentance. She is shown how God had persistently pursued her throughout her life (93:09).
• Yet, God tells her:
  "You've impacted enough of my people that I've heard their prayers for you. And I'm actually going to let you go back." (98:22)

Power of prayer:
"This power of prayer saved me. And the craziest part about it is on Earth nobody even knew I was dying yet."
— Riley (98:43)

• Before returning, God cautions her:
  "You have to stay awake. If you don't, the cards will lay where they lay. ... You'll never be able to be perfect." (101:15)

8. Return, Recovery, and a New Walk with God

• The trauma of returning to her wounded body is intense (101:41). Her survival and subsequent medical recovery are described as miraculous.
• A “God wink”: Her first night home, a TV sermon coincidentally reinforces the importance of relationship, not just goodness, for entering God’s house (106:23).
• Riley gets saved that very night, beginning a long process of healing, overcoming fear, and ultimately embracing her calling to share her story (108:18).

9. Final Reflections and Message to Listeners

• Riley, now deeply changed, encourages listeners:
  "Don't miss that boat. There's something really beautiful and not scary and amazing that's waiting for us. If you want it, it's your choice... I'd advise getting on that boat." (117:14)
• John affirms Riley’s testimony: Her story isn’t just about her; it’s for anyone who has wondered about the afterlife or walked indifferently past God’s call.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

"Take the best day that you've ever lived, but times it by infinity. And that's what dying is like."
— Riley (70:08, and at the very end)

"Love is a choice. I am love. You didn't choose me."
— Riley recounting God’s words (88:55)

"He reached for me a lot. He chased after me. He really did. I just didn't reciprocate it out of my own anger or my own worldliness. I felt his hurt because I didn't want him back. And he sacrificed so much for me and I felt that and I felt sorry."
— Riley (92:56)

"It's a place and it's real and it's—He wants us all there. He loves all of us so much. And I felt that. A glimpse of that."
— Riley (114:58)

"If you're going to cry, cry for you. Because the experience of dying isn't what people think it is."
— Riley (69:15)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------| | 07:16 | Accident and initial trauma | | 14:36 | Out-of-body experience in ambulance | | 16:54 | “Hole in the sky,” ascent begins | | 25:40 | Visions/downloads: Jesus, family curse | | 33:03 | Generational curse vision | | 43:43 | Comedy in heaven | | 46:34 | Description of heaven: people, pets, colors, worship | | 54:18 | Vision of the heavenly wall | | 56:19 | Parallel with Revelation 21 | | 61:38 | Life review: her death’s effect on family | | 88:55 | God tells Riley: “You didn’t choose me” | | 98:22 | God offers to let her return due to others’ prayers | | 101:15 | God’s warning: “Stay awake. You’ll never be perfect.” | | 106:23 | “God wink”: TV sermon on relationship vs. rules | | 108:18 | Riley’s salvation and decision to share her testimony | | 117:14 | Final encouragement to listeners: “Don’t miss that boat.” |

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Tone and Speaker Style

• Riley: Emotional, vulnerable, honest, with moments of awe-struck wonder, laughter, and deep introspection. Her language often combines vivid sensory details with straightforward, sometimes folksy, humor and candor.
• John: Compassionate, affirming, gently theological, often referencing scripture or tying Riley’s experience to broader research and biblical narratives. He acts as a thoughtful guide and empathetic listener.

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Conclusion

Riley’s account articulates not just a brush with death, but a profound, theologically resonant journey into the afterlife—one marked by love, humor, self-discovery, urgent warnings, and ultimately hope. It challenges listeners to question what they think they know about death, encourages those who doubt or feel spiritually indifferent, and affirms the life-transforming power of God’s love and relationship over mere religion or morality.

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If you are seeking a moving, heartfelt testimony of life beyond death and the transformative impact of grace, this episode is essential listening.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Well, I'm John Burke, author of the New York Times bestselling book Imagine Heaven and Imagine the God of Heaven. And this is the Imagine Heaven Live series that I'm doing in between seasons of the Imagine Heaven podcast. So if you haven't seen that, I hope you'll go back and watch the first 10 episodes. I take the about 40 years of research I've done interviewing, studying over 1,500 cases of people who clinically died and then were resuscitated and had a near death experience. And I'm showing how the commonalities of those experiences overlap and align with the Bible. So I hope you'll go check that out. Well, I'm super excited about this interview today that we're actually going to do Live With Riley Huddleston. I was researching for a book I'm writing right now, and I came across this YouTube reel that was posted just a couple of weeks ago that Riley did. And I saw it about an accident she had at the lake and a near death experience. And I realized she's up in Dallas Fort Worth, not far from where we are. And we contacted her and we decided we would do this together because of some of the things that she was feeling the Lord was telling her to do. I can't wait for you to hear it because it's really an incredible story with so many lessons for all of us to learn. So welcome. Riley, thank you so much for, for meeting me and agreeing to kind of tell your story.

[A]

Thank you for having me. I appreciate you having me. I'm. I'm excited to be here and speak with you. So.

[B]

And you, you live in the Dallas Fort Worth area and you have a social media marketing company.

[A]

Yep. That you run. That's what I'm doing by day, usually, yeah.

[B]

And married?

[A]

Married for two years now, almost.

[B]

Okay. Newly married. That's awesome.

[A]

Yeah. Yep. We've. We're just building a life and enjoying every second of it.

[B]

Well, and so you had something happen 14 years ago.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

When you were 19?

[A]

Yep, I was 19. It was in 2011, so.

[B]

Yeah. And so it's. It's 10 taken a while for you to process and get to a place where you're willing to share it.

[A]

Yeah. It took me a long time to come forward and talk about it. It took me seven years to even tell my family about it. So I've known that I've needed to speak, but it's time now.

[B]

Yeah, well, I'll ask you more about that in a little bit, but first, why don't you give us a little background of what happened leading up to the day of the accident.

[A]

Yeah. So I'm newly out of high school. I'm just a year. I'm trying to figure out college, and I'm in that season of life. It's a confusing time for everybody usually. But I had gotten a day off and me and my roommate at the time, we get invited to go and go to the lake on a friend's jet ski. And so we both ended up having that day off and we headed to the lake and it was, honestly, it was an amazing day leading up to my accident happening. We ate food, we listened to music, we laughed a lot. We ended up, you know, before that even happened. And I actually fell asleep on an inner tube, like a floaty out. And we all did. We all had our own. And so we were napping and relaxing, totally having a great day. Nothing crazy. I always preface when I'm saying or when I've told my story. I've always said we weren't. It wasn't anything crazy. You know, young kids can be crazy. But it was nothing like that.

[B]

No drinking, drugging, nothing like that.

[A]

Nothing.

[B]

Just.

[A]

Just a. Children like.

[B]

And so you were taking one last. You said last. We talked.

[A]

So actually my sister, we, we had, we were all napping and my phone started going off and it was my sister on the phone. And so I got up and I answered the phone and she's like, what are you doing? And I'm like, I'm at the lake, you know, just. We were cutting up, in other words. And as I was on the phone with her, my, my roommate and our friend, they were actually like, hey, we're going to go on one last ride around. It was getting right about sunset and I'm like, hey, I gotta go. I'm, you know, I'm. I don't want to miss the last joyride. And so I actually had to swim out to them to get on the Jet Ski because they were pretty far out there. And I got on the back, we did a joyride around the lake. It was Lake Cypress Springs is where we were at.

[B]

So there are like three of you on this Jet Ski?

[A]

Yep, it was a three seater Jet Ski. And we did our joyride and then right before we came up to shore, we actually kind of took like a sharp turn and we ended up falling off and laughing. It was not anything serious at all. And as we went to get back on, I was the last one to get back on. And the Jet Ski, the best way I can describe it is it's like I stood still and the Jet Ski came out underneath me.

[B]

It's like you climbed on the last and then they gunned it.

[A]

No, it, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't going very fast. It was actually we were, we ended up doing testing and it was 13 miles an hour. So it wasn't even anything crazy. Just. I mean, you have to have a certain acceleration to get it to go.

[B]

But it was like the, the Jet Ski just went out from under you and you fell right behind it.

[A]

Yeah, it's like I just dropped down. It just, it's like I stood still in the Jet Ski, came out underneath me and I just dropped down into the water. And the water pressure had hit me and hit my body and there was just blood immediately.

[B]

So the jets coming out of the jet Ski.

[A]

Yep. Hit. Hit me. And, you know, the best way to describe it is it was like a scene from Jaws where blood just started to surround me.

[B]

And I knew, like, literally made a hole in your.

[A]

Yeah, I had a gaping hole in my body. Yeah. But, I mean, I was still underwater at that time, so I just.

[B]

You didn't know?

[A]

Yeah, I wasn't. I knew something had happened, but I was processing, and they hadn't. They actually didn't know that I had fallen off at first. And so when they realized they heard me screaming and they turned around. I mean, they weren't very far, but they turned around, and my roommate had jumped in the water, and she grabbed the back of my life vest and super strength threw me up on the jet ski. And that's when I realized, like, I've got some very serious injuries. In fact, I remember looking down and it was like a water faucet of just blood pouring out. It was like just very gory, very not out, and very not normal. In other words, it was.

[B]

I mean, are you in shock at this point?

[A]

I think I was, yeah. I, I. My reaction was to want to stop the bleeding, obviously, but I also was just like, this is not good. This. This is. I knew pretty much immediately that this, this was not good at all. And as we were coming up to the shore, I mean, I'm bleeding, and I realize chunks of my organs and intestines are starting to fall out of my body. And the people from the shore had heard me screaming in pain, and they had called the ambulance already.

[B]

And so it was that obvious. It was that, yeah, something's terribly wrong.

[A]

From the moment it happened, it was pretty much like, this is. This is not good. And everybody knew that, I think, because, I mean, obviously people from the shore calling, they must have seen something or maybe my screams, you know. But by the time I got to shore, which wasn't. We were really right outside the buoy when where the accident happened. It wasn't far at all from shore. And just from that little bit, I had already lost, like, mobility in my legs. So they had to pick me up, and my legs were just dragging. You know, they were carrying me to this concrete picnic table. Water pockets develop developed over my lungs. So where the amount of air that I had in my lungs at that exact moment was all I could get in and out. So it was like I was breathing.

[B]

Through a straw, because water had come into your gut cavity.

[A]

Water was all in.

[B]

They laid you down. It started to press on your lungs.

[A]

Yep. And so I felt like I was suffocating. And I started to gasp like this. I mean, that was all I could get in and out. It was very, very minimal amount of air. And right about that time, everything got real slow. Everybody around me was. It was chaos. You know, people were running around and panicky, but things started to slow down and I started to process, like. Sorry.

[B]

It's okay.

[A]

This is not a good sign.

[B]

It's a big deal. You started to realize at that point that you were dying.

[A]

I. I knew that this is it. You know, I had that moment of realization, okay, my life is coming to an end. And I was trying to come to terms with that and accepting that that was my fate. I knew that that's what was happening. And so I'm watching everybody else chaos, trying to save my life and get me help, and I knew I'm not gonna. This isn't gonna be good. I can see all of it happening in my brain as I'm telling you, like, very vividly. It's not something that you forget, especially when you start talking about it so well.

[B]

And, I mean, I've heard that a lot that people who've had near death experiences, it's. It's not a memory that you lose.

[A]

It's. Yeah.

[B]

It's in your spirit.

[A]

Yes. It becomes a part of you in a weird way. Yeah. So I knew, you know, I. I was coming to the conclusion, like, okay, this is. This is dying. This is what dying is like. The ambulance showed up pretty, pretty quickly. From my. From my point of view, it seemed like right away, and they loaded me up and they put me in the back of the ambulance. And when they did that, they shut the doors. And as soon as they shut the doors, boom, I'm over my body. And I. I realize pretty quickly, like, oh, that's me. This is. This is happening. It was a very weird feeling because I knew that that was me, but I also was detaching from that. From who that was.

[B]

The body.

[A]

The body. Yeah. It's like I.

[B]

Because you were still yourself.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, I was still me. But I also am looking at me and it's like, okay, I know that that's supposed to be me, but I'm here. So what's. You know, just a detachment feeling like, okay, and I'm still making that. That noise that said that. That sound.

[B]

Your physical body of the. Trying to get air.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But, you know, that's. That's important, I think, because you were. You Were free. At that point, your body was still suffering, struggling, but the Lord had already taken you exactly. Out of your body.

[A]

And that was a. That was something I thought is. I just went from being in the worst pain I've ever felt in my entire life to nothing. Like, I. I don't. It just went. It just. It was a really weird. What were you feeling at that moment? I just remember the pain was not there. That was my. That was the biggest thing in my mind.

[B]

So much I had.

[A]

It was so painful. Unbearably painful and panicky because I couldn't breathe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To being able to breathe. I mean, it was almost like a relief feeling. I. I remember it being like, oh, gosh, like I could breathe again, you know? And so as I kind of started to. My thoughts were, like, really realizing what was going on. I realized, like, okay, I'm dying. I'm. My. My body's here. I'm not hurting. Shortly after that, I start to ascend into what looked to me like a hole in the sky. A hole in the sky. That's what it looked like to me, was just a hole. A light was coming out of the hole. But it looked like a hole. It wasn't a dark hole. It was a. A light.

[B]

Was it big?

[A]

Yeah, it was. It was. I mean, it wasn't huge, but it was big enough to me. It looked big, but then the closer I got, it kind of got, you know, more narrow, but it was really. The light was beautiful. Even the light that was coming out of this hole, and I was enamored by it. I remember wanting to go towards the. The. The hole and. But also being present that my body was here, but I wanted to. I was being drawn, in other words, to somewhere else.

[B]

Did you know where. Where?

[A]

No. No, I had no idea at that moment. I had no. I had no idea what. It was just. It was really weird because I was living in the moment so much, but I was also definitely processing.

[B]

You're still yourself.

[A]

I'm still myself thinking, yeah, you're still. Exactly. I'm processing, but I'm like, is this. Is this really happening? Like, this is happening. And it's so. I'm so sure that it's happening, but it's unbelievable that it's happening even as you're experiencing.

[B]

It wasn't like a dream or.

[A]

No, it's very clear, very vivid. I mean, I'm more sure that that happened to me than I am sitting here with you today. That's. That. That's how real it is. Yeah, it's it's way more aware, way more. I don't. I don't know what the word is. Just awake. You're fully awake. It's like you were asleep, and you're fully being awakened is what it feels.

[B]

Like when you're on the other side. Wow.

[A]

Or even just traveling to the other side. You're. Once you are like, you know, the way that it feels is. It's like you felt like you had this heaviness, and when you shed your. Your body, you're, like, fully awakened. It was like your body was. It was like a cap, you know, you could only. I don't know, it was just the weirdest feeling.

[B]

It was like constrained.

[A]

Constrained. Yeah. That's what your body feels like.

[B]

And now you're free.

[A]

And now you're free. Yep. And so I'm starting to travel to this. What. To what looks like to me a hole in the sky. And I start real. Really, as soon as I start, like, truly ascending, I realize, oh, God is real. This is where I'm going. And that was one of the first realizations after my body and my spirit separate is, oh, this is God's world. This is. This is what I've heard about. This is. This is real. I'm. This is Earth, isn't it? That was one of the first. It was like God made himself very known to me almost right away.

[B]

And it was just an intuitive, like, knowing, just.

[A]

Yeah, a knowing.

[B]

And what was your. What was your belief or spiritual background or understanding before that?

[A]

So I had heard a lot about God and religion, but I. I don't really know how to explain it. I wasn't. I wouldn't say I was a believer. My parents, my mom's one religion, my dad's another religion, and they, you know, split up, and we just kind of never talked about religion in our household. I knew my mom believed a certain thing, and I knew my dad believed a certain thing, but it wasn't. They just couldn't really decide, I think, what. What they wanted us to believe, so we just didn't talk about it. And, you know, I was. I was. God, I think, had tried to reach out to me through different people in my life, friends and school and a whole plethora of ways, but I honestly, I just believed foreign. I'm a good person, and that feels like a lot. I'd been through a lot in my life. What do you mean? Well, my parents, they separated when I was younger. I was, I think, in third grade. And so I got uplifted from My home and moved to another state. And, you know, my. My parents, now that I'm an adult, I realize they did the best that they could. But as a child, I was very confused. I've. You know, I had that household where, you know, one parent doesn't like the other parent, this parent doesn't like the other parent. And to me, it felt like, well, you don't. You don't like this person, and you don't like this person. Well, that's me. So both of you hate me. Oh, you know, so I felt like.

[B]

But, like rejection.

[A]

Yeah. And. And even though I know that both of my parents love me, as a child, that's what it felt like to me. And I just had a lot of, I think, anger, and I didn't understand adult matters. And so I was just kind of a confused person.

[B]

There was a lot of chaos.

[A]

A lot of chaos. Yeah. You know, my. My. My mom remarried and, you know, that marriage was hard. And, you know, it's hard to say because now that I'm an adult, I see that all these people had. Were good people. My. My parents. I love my parents. They're good people. My. My step parents are their good people. It was just from my point of view as a child, it felt like all you guys are worried about is each other and not. Not me. And I just felt like, kind of abandoned in a way. Not that they wanted me to feel that way. They would never want me to feel that way, but that's. It was chaotic. It really was. It was a split home, and you got states in between us. And my dad wants one thing, my mom wants another, And. And then just marriages, you know, my mom and my stepdad's marriage was a lot. And it just led me to be a confused person and a confused teenager. And I didn't know what I felt. I didn't know where I stood. I didn't know what was right and what was wrong in that. Not in my morals, but in a spiritual sense. I just. It. And I also felt like, God, if you love me, why. Why am I. Why is there so much turmoil in my home? Why are you letting me, make me go through this? If you're who you say you are.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just not understanding, you know? And so leading up to my accident, there were so many ways that God tried to reach me.

[B]

You see that looking back.

[A]

Oh, yeah. And I knew. Even when I encountered God, I knew there was no question. I knew he was trying to reach me, even through friends. You know, I had. I have a childhood Best friend. And I remember her. Us talking about God. And I was like, I don't even know how to talk to him. I don't even know. She's like, let me show you. And she prayed for us. And I think those were ways that God was trying to reach me. But I just. I had too much. I. I was putting my own pain in front of that. It blocked me from being able to see things for what they were in that season of my life as I'm.

[B]

But now. Now you're knowing I'm not as real.

[A]

Whoa. Okay.

[B]

And how did you know that?

[A]

I don't. I don't know. It's just hard to explain. The best way I can tell you is it was like God put a USB drive in me and showed me things and revealed not just himself, but a lot of truths that are to come.

[B]

So as you're traveling through this tunnel or loaded. It's like a tunnel of light.

[A]

Yep. It's just.

[B]

And you're just getting this download of information, of knowledge.

[A]

Yep. I'm. I'm being shown visions. I'm being shown. Because this is the weird thing. I. When I'm being shown these things, I still. This day, it felt so real to me. It's hard to know if that is. It doesn't. My. My worldly mind says, okay, you can't be in two places at once. But God was showing me things where I'm. Two places at once. I'm. I'm ascending. So I'm. This whole time, I'm ascending, but I'm also being ex. Having these experiences. For instance, God showed me really just that. That Jesus is real. Is. Is what I believe he wanted me to know is that this is about me. Jesus walked on Earth. He had his time. He's your savior. That was just. I got these. And it probably doesn't make any sense to you, but he showed me bread. I knew that he was the reason. I guess that I'm getting to experience these things.

[B]

Otherwise, that's why you're. You're getting to go there.

[A]

So he started out with that. He's like, first off, you know, this is me interpreting it. But he's like, the reason why you're able to do this is because Jesus did this for you.

[B]

You know, it's interesting because Jesus said, I'm the bread of life.

[A]

My gosh. Yeah.

[B]

So I'm wondering if.

[A]

I don't know. It's. You know, I'm still. I'm still processing everything that has happened. I'm still trying to figure out, you know, some of it, what it all means. Because a lot of it is like, I don't know why he showed me that. That's just what he showed me.

[B]

And, and was that a new idea that Jesus actually lived on earth?

[A]

To me, Yeah. I, honestly, I had no idea. I, I, that's how I, I really knew nothing. I, I would even go to say I didn't even know that Jesus. I knew the name, but I knew nothing about anything. I just, I just, anytime it really got brought up, I just strayed away from it. I didn't understand it, I didn't know what I felt about it. I just didn't want to talk about it. I didn't want to learn about it. I didn't know anything. That's the truth. I just knew nothing. And so how can you know where you stand with something that you know nothing about? And so I don't know if I would say I was a non believer, but I definitely wasn't a believer. I was just kind of indifferent. Indifferent. Yeah. I just didn't know and I didn't care to know.

[B]

And yet now you're in this tunnel of light.

[A]

Now I'm, and you know, I know. Yeah. Now I'm being, I'm, I'm more sure than I was even sure that I lived a life on earth. This is more real to me than, than what life I just lived was.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Which is a very overwhelming feeling.

[B]

Yeah. It's kind of hard to understand.

[A]

It is. It is. Because even talking about it or reliving it is, words don't.

[B]

Well, and you know, Riley, we've talked about how it's, it's taking you a while to tell it because of that. And I told you that's, you know, having studied a thousand five hundred cases of near death experience is common.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Takes usually about seven years for someone to process it.

[A]

That's about right on track to be.

[B]

Able to talk about it. And I think the reason is, is because, you know, I use the analogy, it's is as if we were living this experience on a flat black and white painting on the wall, you know, and all of a sudden you're brought out into a whole new dimension, you know, that you knew your flat world and now you have another dimension, a third dimension. You experience it and then you're put back in the flat world.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Which was less real because it had a less dimensions than life, what you experience. And then you're trying to explain three dimensions but in two dimensional words.

[A]

Exactly. That's that's perfect.

[B]

And I think that's why people. And it's a sacred experience too, right?

[A]

It's definitely.

[B]

And people kind of look at you and you think they're.

[A]

No one understanding you're crazy. Yeah, people think I'm crazy. Yeah.

[B]

So that's why many people. I'm curious, did you even know about near death experiences before this? No, nothing about nothing.

[A]

Nothing. I.

[B]

So when you're having this experience, you're not thinking like, oh, I've heard of this.

[A]

Oh no, not even a. Not even a thought in my mind. I had no, I had no idea what I was experiencing. Just that. Just what God was giving, showing me that I knew. I mean there was no question. I was like, okay, I'm my vessels back there. My body is on earth. I'm detached. Oh, Jesus is real. I'm in God's territory now and he's just started to show me truths that I believe are truths. And the very first thing was that Jesus, he was the reason that I was able to be able to even be going to heaven and that he did his time. That's. That's my interpretation of it now. But at the time I just knew, okay, Jesus is the reason this is. I'm able to. This disabled. A ha. Like I'm doing this.

[B]

Not wild.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you knew nothing?

[A]

Nothing. Not. Not anything.

[B]

But you know what's wild? I've inter. I've interviewed Hindus who knew nothing and came back knowing that same thing.

[A]

It's fascinating. It's an. It's incredible.

[B]

God is God.

[A]

God is just. Yeah, you can't. You just. What are the words he used for something so amazing and that he can do these things right. So I'm being uploaded with all this information. And another thing that he showed me was, you know, I started to so a little back knowledge when Facebook first came out. I was on a. I guess it was a family page. Somebody created something and I ended up seeing a picture of a distant relative. Like great, great, great. However many greats. I'm not even sure I've tried to find the picture, but I, I can't find it. I'm sure it's somewhere. But I knew that it was someone in my family. Like it was a picture of one of our descendants and somebody was like, oh, this is a picture of our great great, whoever. Great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandpa.

[B]

Grandmother.

[A]

Grant. It was a grandpa. It was grandpa, Grandpa, Grandpa. Yeah.

[B]

And, and you, and you said you're. Was it your grandmother who was into genealogies? And doing lineages and ancestries.

[A]

Yeah, they. So, yeah, a little back history of that is my grandma ended up sending all of us a whole history of all of our lineage for like, as long as she could find. I mean, we have like a big black notebook of. I mean, it's awesome, honestly. So, yeah, I. My family, I think, has been. Wanted to stay connected in that way. But I saw God showed me where a generational curse had started in my family, and it was a generational curse of lust and divorce. And I feel like he showed me this because I was somebody who was very affected by that. Exactly. So he showed me where it had started. And I saw that great, great, great seven times. However many times. Grandpa, I saw him as if I was his wife and he was having an affair and was. I had basically encountered where it had started in my generational line. And it was so real to me, that experience that I thought I had lived that life. I had. I thought that I didn't know how to really what to make of it, but it was very real, this experience. Like, I felt like that had happened to me.

[B]

So how did you know it was.

[A]

Your great, great, great, great grandma? The picture?

[B]

Because you had seen the picture and you had seen that your grandfather. So you knew.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so.

[A]

But I recognized him immediately. So it was very weird because I felt like I was living an interaction.

[B]

What was the interaction?

[A]

It was just. I remember him. It was this. It's an image or it is an interaction, but they were in a kitchen, and me, I was upset about and an infidelity that had happened, and there was a lot of arguing. So I'm living this and I'm feeling the emotions of this encounter. But I also. It goes in my mind like, oh, wait, this is my great, great, great, great grandpa or however many. You know. So it was weird because I. In the moment, I was feeling like this had happened to me, but then I remembered me and I remembered that I had saw that picture not that long. It was. It was like in 2010 that I saw the picture. And now this is 2011. So it was like a year prior that saw that picture. And that's the only way I knew. Well, wait, it wasn't your past life.

[B]

It was your ancestry.

[A]

Yeah, I'm being shown a relative's experience. This isn't my experience. And then it's like I'm back ascending and he's showing me the next thing that he, you know.

[B]

And was it just that one or did you say. You said it. You Told me before it like rippled.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So as I, I have this encounter as they're arguing there. Yes. With grandma seven there. They're arguing and, and talking about how hurtful and you know, just all those emotions of, of that come with having a partner that has lust and adultery and things like that. All of a sudden I see it ripple into other, like her kids and their kids and their, and it wasn't always like, oh, because the, the great times seven Grandpa did this. Now the sun's going to do that. It wasn't like that. It was just a, a pain, a heart pain that had carried. And maybe some people understood it, maybe some people acted on it, but it was there in generation. Generation. Yep. All the way until it got to me.

[B]

And you experienced it going generation to generation.

[A]

Yep. But as a ripple, I, I don't know how to explain that, but I.

[B]

Did you experience each person like you did Grandma seven or.

[A]

No. The. Where it started was the most vivid and I just felt, I, I experienced what it felt like to go into each generation until it got to me. I experienced the ripple itself, the tear into the next generation. I felt, I don't, I don't know how to explain that, but. So I experienced an actual. What felt like my life where it started. But then I felt and experienced the ripple effect. Like actually felt it. I don't know.

[B]

Did you feel like there was a lesson in that or something you're supposed to take from it or why did.

[A]

You supposed to break it?

[B]

Break the generational curse? So had, well, you'd never read the Bible, had you? So you know, in Exodus chapter 34, When God is revealing who he is to Moses, he says, I'm Yahweh, the God of compassion and kindness. I love to shower loving kindness on thousands of generations of those who love me. But I don't leave the guilty unpunished and the sins of the parents passed down to the third and fourth generation.

[A]

That makes perfect sense.

[B]

And I, you know, and some people think like, well, why would he do that? Why would he punish children for their parents sins? And I don't think that's what it is. Yeah, I think he's warning us about the way the world works. It's kind of like, don't walk off the roof, you'll drop to the ground. It's gravity.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, so you're shown this. You're still traveling. Are you going fast?

[A]

You know what's crazy is I was going fast. Yes, it happened fast. But then all these things are happening. Simultaneously happening simultaneously, yes.

[B]

And it's like you're traveling fast, but then you're in this other experience.

[A]

Right. It's like I'm going both this way and this way. Does that make any sense?

[B]

It does to me. Only because I've heard it. I've heard it so many times. You know, it's not. We have. We can only have linear experiences, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But on the other side. It's not like that.

[A]

It's not like that. And so I'm being shown Jesus is real. He reigned my family. One of probably many, but just that one specifically of my family where a heartache started in my family. And then I am getting. I get shown. Well, let me. Let me preface this by saying. So at a certain point, I start to kind of banter with God. I'm like, okay, so. So you're. You're him, you know, you. You really are. Yeah, you're the. You're the big deal.

[B]

And he told me that's kind of your personality.

[A]

It is, yeah. I love to laugh. I'm a big jokester most the time. I'm not going to be caught talking about a whole lot of seriousness. I just love. I think laughter is medicine and it's helped me through a lot of really dark times in my life. So that's more my personality, what I. Towards.

[B]

I think that's an important point that people don't realize is that when we leave this world, we're still ourselves.

[A]

Yeah. Completely. Like, more so if that. If that's. Can. If you can wrap your head around that. More so than even here, because we get hurt here and it changes us. And we kind of go back to like how we started, how he intended us to be. And who I am, my family. I mean, my family would vouch for this, but who I am is a very loving, fun. Big on laughter. But I have a really big heart. And the world had made me not that way as much and so guarded, way more guarded. I had walls higher than you could imagine, as I'm sure a lot of people experience. All that was gone. And I was free and experiencing just this. Just awesome. Even all these things I'm being shown, you know, knowledge is fun. When you learn something, you're. It's amazing. So not only knowing that that wasn't it, that life on Earth wasn't where it ended was awesome. God showing you all these experiences was awesome, even though they weren't always fun. I mean, learning there's a generational curse is not fun, but it was awesome. Like, to Know, to understand.

[B]

Okay. So let's keep going on your journey. So, okay, you're starting to banner with God.

[A]

Yes, I am. I'm. I. I start to make some jokes. I'm like, you're really him. Like, you're. You're that guy. And he shows me.

[B]

Is he speaking to you?

[A]

Not yet. He's not speaking to me yet, but he's downloading me with information.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And he shows me an image, which is just going to sound crazy, but he shows me an image of a comedy club in heaven.

[B]

What? A comedy club in heaven?

[A]

Yes. There are people.

[B]

What do you mean by an image?

[A]

Well, it's. I mean, I guess image. I don't know if image is the right word because it's a vision. It's like I'm there.

[B]

So it's like, suddenly you're there.

[A]

Suddenly I'm there.

[B]

And where were you?

[A]

And there's a stage. It's dark, people are laughing. There's a lot of laughter and a lot of sounds coming out of. But it's. It's a song, but everybody's laughing and there's someone up there. And I'm back far enough where I can't see who it is. But the purpose was that he was showing me, like. I don't know if he was making a joke or if he was saying this. Where you're going to be? I'm not sure, but maybe both. But I just. He showed me that and I thought. Oh, I think that he was like, where do you think you got that from? That came from me.

[B]

Laughter.

[A]

Laughter and humor. And that. It's a language and some people's love language.

[B]

And I think so many people don't realize that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, you know, we think God is just stoic and so.

[A]

Yeah, serious.

[B]

Serious all the time.

[A]

And he's fun.

[B]

He's the one who created every pleasure, every joy, every.

[A]

That's what I felt for him.

[B]

And laughter is. And humor is one of the highest forms of communication.

[A]

That's what I felt like. He was like, making me laugh back. He's like, you're so funny. You got that from me here. Like, that's. That's the way I interpreted it.

[B]

And did you really think that are comedy clubs in heaven?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Why did you know that was. Was heaven?

[A]

I. I don't know how to explain it, but it just. It just. It feels like there is. Do I think he showed me that to be funny? Yes. But do I think that that's actually there? Yeah, I do. And he showed me a Lot of different images of. I don't know. Is image the right word? It feels like an image because I have a vision of a specific moment. So I say image, but it was an experience.

[B]

Like, you were there.

[A]

Like, I experienced it.

[B]

Kind of like you experienced your great grandmother.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Number seven.

[A]

But there's like a significant image that. When I think about it, I think about that. Does that make sense? So I. I say image because I can see the surroundings of what it looked like. That's what's, like, burning my brain. But I was like, all of it. I mean, yes. Like with my grandparents, the things he showed me of heaven. He showed me the comedy club, which I thought was hilarious, to be honest. I really did think that was really funny. But then he showed me there were people and pets.

[B]

So he's now showing you heaven?

[A]

Yeah, I'm in heaven or. But I'm not in heaven because I'm still ascending.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So maybe I'm both. I don't know.

[B]

I think that's possible. Like I said, I'm.

[A]

I'm there and I'm not there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and I always have said.

[B]

But it was an experience.

[A]

It was an experience. All of these things were. I felt like I lived them, but. But then I was traveling. So my worldly mind says, how can that be? But it was so real.

[B]

Can't hear.

[A]

Yeah. It can't be here, but. So I'm. I'm looking around, and it's like Earth, but just beautiful. More beautiful, more vibrant, More green, more. But then there's colors that don't exist here. There's things that. And it's. I really just am seeing nature. I mean, but there's people and pets, and it seems like everybody's on. To me, it was like everyone is on a mission. They're doing something. They're living.

[B]

You saw that happening.

[A]

Yeah, but they're also. I say they were singing, but their mouths weren't singing. Their spirits were singing and all harmonizing, but also all working. It was unbelievable. It was indescribable. They were living.

[B]

Living life.

[A]

Living life like a real life. Like doing things and playing with animals. And they were on. They were. I could tell they were walking with. With purpose. Like they were on their way to do. Do something. But they were all making this amazing, beautiful orchestra, harmonizing. But everybody sounded different. Every soul. Like, the pets sounded different than the people. The people sounded different than the trees.

[B]

So the pets.

[A]

There are there all kinds of pets. Like, every. I mean, I just saw all kinds of pets. Just All.

[B]

And they have a song as well.

[A]

And the flowers.

[B]

And the flowers have a song, but they're all.

[A]

Harmonizing.

[B]

So they're different. They're each individual.

[A]

And there was. There was instruments that aren't here that I recognize that were not here. I'm like, whoa, that sounds awesome. But we don't have that.

[B]

But you never heard it here. And you're hearing music.

[A]

Yeah, I was hearing music, but I got the. The. The vibe that that was just how it was there. It wasn't, like, distracting or it was just the way of how it was. It was like it wasn't. There weren't words for me. Like, there were just sounds that sounded like worship. Felt like everybody was worshiping God without words, but without words, but with lots of music and sound, and everything was unique. And something that God showed me is that who you are is exactly who you are in heaven, just more your real self. And you're gonna have you know that God gives you these spiritual gifts. And I think that's what those people were doing. They were using their spiritual gift. I don't. I don't know what they were doing, but they were. They had purpose. And God revealed to me that he gives us a spiritual gift on earth, and we choose if we want to use it or not. And. But you will use it in heaven. You'll have so much purpose in that.

[B]

So it doesn't stop. It continues on with the gifts we've been given to develop them and use them.

[A]

Yep. And another image that he showed me was. There was. People say you love to hunt. They were hunting in heaven, but they weren't hunting an animal. They were hunting. I don't even know what it was, to be honest. It was like an orb with wings and eyes and glowing. I don't know. I don't even know how to explain it. But it was hunting.

[B]

Like, to kill?

[A]

No, they were just hunting it.

[B]

Kind of like tracking, like a game.

[A]

Tracking it? Yeah, they were tracking it is probably the better, but they were using stuff to try to catch it. I know I sound insane. I know this is crazy. I'm doing my best, but.

[B]

No, no. Well, I. I think that's fascinating. You. You told me before that your. Your stepdad is a hunter.

[A]

Yes. So I thought.

[B]

Do you think that's why you were shown that?

[A]

I do. I thought about him.

[B]

When you saw that, I was like, oh, he's gonna love this.

[A]

He's gonna love this. That's what I thought. Yeah.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And so.

[B]

And other things.

[A]

So much purpose in that like, they were. They were doing it for God, for whatever reason. God needed this thing and they were getting it. And. But it was fun and it was purposeful and yeah, there was. I mean, there was just so many enlightening little things like that. Like, if you, like fall, you can live in a place where there's fall. It's like one street over, it's winter, one street, whatever.

[B]

You saw that?

[A]

Yeah, I just saw different.

[B]

Different seasons. Like locations of different seasons, but all the time. And is this. Is this a city or what are you seeing?

[A]

Yeah, I am in it. Everything there was. The colors of everything was like out of this world, nothing I've ever seen. It was so beautiful, but it looked like earth, but just more beautiful. I didn't see a lot of buildings, but I got the feeling that I was in a. That I was somewhere that he wanted me to see, but it wasn't. I didn't see. When I'm talking about like the fields and the people, there wasn't any buildings at that point. There was just people living in a beautiful. On what looked like a beautiful earth to me, but was more beautiful. I just remember it was like, this is so much like. It feels like earth, just better and bigger and more beautiful. And it. I didn't. I didn't expect that. I don't know what I thought. I don't. I don't even know if I ever thought about it, but I do remember still. I'm like, it. It was so much like this, but better. But I will say he also showed me an experience or an image of a wall that was as high up as I could see and as far as I could see. And it was see through, but I couldn't really see. It was translucent.

[B]

The wall was translucent kind of.

[A]

Yeah, it was kind of translucent. But it had jewels. Like every diamond or ruby or like gem that you could think of, but maybe even some that don't exist were on this wall. It was amazing. And it. But it was. It had. It had gold elements to it, but it was kind of translucent looking. It. I know, I know. You're like trying to follow me. No, it was amazing because it was unreal, John. It was like holy.

[B]

Holy. And did you have a sense of where you were?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I knew like, what that wall was. I didn't really know because I didn't.

[B]

See a gate and no significance to it?

[A]

Not really. I mean, I just remember looking at it and being like, this is a barrier. That's what I remember thinking. This is A barrier. It's a beautiful barrier, but it's a barrier. I didn't see any way in or out.

[B]

You didn't see a gate or a archway or anything like that?

[A]

Nope. Just.

[B]

Just the wall with these gemstones in this wall. And did the wall. Was it solid?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it was.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, made of rock or. What was it made of?

[A]

I don't know. It. What. I'd never seen anything like what this was, but every detail on it, like, I don't know, you could just tell it was perfect, which nothing is ever perfect, but this was perfect. Like, just the way that it was made was perfect in whatever. Whatever it was made of was perfect. It was magical.

[B]

So when, you know, when you told me about this, I asked you, have you ever read Revelation, chapter 21? Yeah.

[A]

And you said, no, I haven't. And I still haven't. I mean.

[B]

Yeah. So I want. So I want to read it. Because you're describing the wall of the holy city of God, and that's what John saw when Jesus took him into heaven. And he's looking. He's up on a very high mountain looking down, but he's describing the wall around the city. And there are 12 gates, but they're really more like archways.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

With like, this pearlescent material in them. That's.

[A]

Yeah, that's a great pearl. Pearl, yeah. I don't know how to explain it, but I can see it.

[B]

Yeah. So here's what John says, because he's trying to describe, I think, the same wall. He says the wall was made of Jasper and the city was pure gold. As clear as glass.

[A]

What the heck?

[B]

You had never read that?

[A]

No, never.

[B]

That's exactly what you were trying to describe.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The wall of the city was built on foundation stones inlaid with 12 precious stones. Jasper, sapphire, agate, emerald, onyx, carnelian, chrysolite, beryl, topaz. I can't even say that one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Jason. Amethyst. The 12 gates were made of pearl, each a single pearl. And the main street was gold. As clear as glass.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, it's like iridescent. Is that the right word? It's like.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I don't know, but that sounds exactly like it.

[B]

But, you know, it's.

[A]

But I didn't see any gates. I didn't. I was just.

[B]

But maybe that's why you felt that wall was a barrier at that point. Yeah, because it is. It is the entrance into the holy city. It's the wall around, and it says the angel measured it in Revelation 21. It says it's 1400 miles long in a square and 1400 miles high.

[A]

It was as high and as long as I could see from where. But I was also standing like flesh. I mean, I was standing close. Close. Yeah, I was. I was. I mean, I don't know if I was. I didn't. I didn't. I couldn't touch it, but I was like. My feet in the beginning of the wall were at the same level.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

So it was very gigantuous to me. Yeah. I was like, whoa, this is a barrier. That's what I felt.

[B]

So was this the point at which you. You told me you had a life review as your. Is this the point or is it.

[A]

Oh, actually. So the life review. After God revealed himself to me, I had a life review. And.

[B]

What was that like?

[A]

It was hard because he showed me all the love that I had ever encountered in my whole life from the moment. Like, things in people that I didn't remember. Their smells and their. Just them. Like, things I didn't remember what they look like, what they smelled like, what they sounded like. I. I relived all that. I. He.

[B]

He showed the same kind of re. Experiencing. And are you seeing it too? Or you're just re. Experiencing that?

[A]

I'm more re. Experiencing it, but I'm. It's kind of the same thing. Like, I'm still. I'm trans, I'm ascending, but I'm also being shown all the love that I had ever encountered in my life. And then he showed me. And this was something that. So some back knowledge is. I'd always wondered, and I had to ask God probably three times throughout my life. And I didn't talk to God very much before that, but I did ask him, if. If. If you're real, why would you let people die the way that you let people die? How can that be good? You know, how. Why. Why do you let these people. Horrible things, the way that people die? Then I remember there was some tragic events that, you know, had happened. I knew some things that had happened to people, and I just. I always had wondered that. And. And there was three different times that I'd asked that question and he'd showed me how my death affected my. My mom, my dad, my brother and my sister, my two younger brothers. They're still children at that point, so maybe they just hadn't. But he showed me those. Those people, and he showed me how my death affected the rest of their life.

[B]

So this is kind of a flash Forward.

[A]

So a flashback and a flash forward.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

And he shows me that my mom was very angry. My death made her very angry, and how that affected her. He showed me that my dad turned to unhealthy coping. You know, he was still a hard worker and things, but he would turn to alcohol to cope. And then he showed me how me passing actually stunted the spiritual growth of my brother and my sister. And knowing all of that, I looked at them like they were children. I was like, what do you mean? I was like, if only you knew. I understand that this is. This is going to hurt you. This is how I felt about it. I understand that this is going to hurt you, but you have no idea what's awaiting, and this is going to be awesome. I had already come to that conclusion. As soon as he revealed that he was real to me, I. I knew. I just had this hope that I just knew something amazing was coming. And so as I'm having this life review, I look at people on Earth and my family, like, their children. I'm like, you just don't get it, but you will because you're going to be with me soon. That's what I. That's. I. I knew their sadness. I felt their sadness. I felt things that they were going to experience. I was so aware. But also it was such a higher understanding that you're like, but I'm not going to suffer there with you. Like, if you knew what's waiting, you wouldn't be sad. You wouldn't let that affect you that way. You wouldn't stunt your life. You wouldn't let these things prevent you from growing. You would know God and have hope for the future.

[B]

So this is fascinating because you didn't know God, and now you're, like, thinking.

[A]

I know all these things.

[B]

You'll know God. It'll be great.

[A]

It'll be great. We're going to live together. It's. It's. It's. It's amazing. It was amazing. And he answered my question, because I'd always wondered, why would you let people die? You know? And I realized he showed me that the way that we die, we're not there. For my body is having its own journey, still suffering. You know, at some point, I do believe that my heart stopped in the back of that ambulance. But my body was going through one thing, and I'm going through a completely different experience. That's amazing. I mean, the best. The best day of my life, the best experience I've ever experienced in my whole life.

[B]

And you went through A tragic death.

[A]

Yeah. What you would think to be was horrible.

[B]

But, you know, I think that's so important for people to hear, especially in light of some of the tragedies that have recently happened.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, to realize what you're picturing that happened.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

May not be their experience at all.

[A]

You might be. This is the. The real truth. You might be watching someone suffer, but they might not be there, because my body was suffering. And sure, I might have been there briefly, but I wasn't there. And I was having this whole separate experience, and my family was going to be affected, thinking that I suffered horrible death. I mean, I was gutted.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I lost all. I mean, my lower intestines, my gallbladder, my pieces of my colon. I mean, my entire. I was gutted like. Like a fish falling out of my body. And my family thought that that was horrible, you know, and it affected them. But it wasn't like that for you?

[B]

For me, I think that's so important for people to hear.

[A]

Yeah. It was amazing. It was the opposite of horrible. I mean, it was. I didn't want to come back. Even though I knew coming back meant my family wouldn't, maybe wouldn't suffer in those ways, I did not want to come back. I wanted to go and be with God and live my purpose. And to me, it felt like, y' all are going to be here so fast. To me, it felt like tomorrow is what it felt like to me. Not that there was time on it, but that's just how soon it felt.

[B]

Because time just works so differently on the other side.

[A]

Exactly. So to me, it felt like no time.

[B]

And that's why you said you looked at them kind of like children, like you're making a big deal out of nothing.

[A]

That's exactly how I felt. I'm like, y' all are going to do all this stuff, and you're going to realize how silly that is, because this is so awesome and I want to be here. This is amazing, you know, so that was. That was something that God answered me. I'd always wanted to know. And I've. I've said this, and I want people to know that God uses the way that we die as a way to reach somebody. And who told you that? He showed me that. I mean, it was like a knowledge that was downloaded to me. He wanted me to come back. And I think, tell that and speak that.

[B]

In. In those last moments of suffering, he's.

[A]

Actually using your vessel to reach somebody for eternity. So.

[B]

Well, you know, I mean, that's My story, I mean, I was an agnostic until my dad was dying. And when he was dying is when someone gave him the first book that coined the term near death experience. It's like late 70s. And I read it and it started me on a journey of trying to figure out who God is and come into faith.

[A]

It's so beautiful to think if you had the opportunity, if God was asking you, John, if. If you. If I take you from this world and use you to your. The way that you die to save somebody for eternity, I would do it in a second. Yeah. I mean, if you love.

[B]

But the other side is too, is like, from our point of view, there's loss, but there's no loss.

[A]

That's just art. I've always said this.

[B]

There's only gain.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

It's like Paul said. He said, you know, to leave here and be with Christ is much better, but stay with you is gain for you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I don't know which to choose.

[A]

That's exactly it. It's, you know, selfishly, it's like you don't want to live without your loved ones. And I feel that way. And I know, I mean, I. I've experienced it and I even feel that way. But I'm also here to say, don't cry for them. If you're going to cry, I cry for you. Because the experience of dying isn't what people think it is. And I think we're afraid to die because we're afraid of the unknown.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But the unknown is amazing.

[B]

Well, and it's so good to hear you say that because. And many others, you know, that I've interviewed who have said it was the best thing people say to me, oh, that was so tragic. And they're like, now that was the best day of my life. Which we just have such a hard time understanding.

[A]

I know. It's like, take the best day that you've ever lived, but times it by infinity. And that's. That's what dying is like.

[B]

But I think you're, you know, at.

[A]

Least heaven, the experience of heaven.

[B]

Right. But you know what? I think God told you that that last act of dying is actually his act of love for others through this vessel. Right. And I agree with you. That is. It is. It is his poetic love. But I think it's Also, you know, C.S. lewis said, God whispers to us in our pleasure, but he shouts to us in our pain. And, you know, I was, I was going along, quite honestly, you know, and I was doing so well. I was like, I Don't need God. That was my attitude. I just didn't care.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then when I feel the pain of my father's death, then I'm like, something's not right. This was not supposed. This was not my plan.

[A]

Yeah, you're like, wait, this.

[B]

Yeah, wait, I'm God, and this is not my plan. So what's going on? Yeah, but that's. Often. It takes that many times.

[A]

Isn't that something to that realization?

[B]

So going back to the life review, where you experience these different experiences of love in your life, what. What were you experiencing? Like, is it all the way back to your birth, or is it. And is it moments, or is it the whole thing?

[A]

It was. It was moments. Sorry, I had to get a drink of water, some tea. It was moments. It was all the moments in my life that were made up of love. Whether it was someone that I loved or they loved me. Like, even as a baby, I remember seeing people that loved me and knowing that they loved me and remembering that they loved me. And there was a whole life experience of just the parts of love. Like, he really wanted me to know that I was loved and how much I was loved. And not just by him, but he sent all these people to love me. And I think he showed me that because maybe I had felt unloved in.

[B]

My life because of the chaos and all that.

[A]

So that was very.

[B]

And so he was showing you, like.

[A]

Boom, from the moment. From. From the moment you were born. He was love, love, love, love, love. I mean, all kinds of these people.

[B]

And did it go all the way up to.

[A]

It went all the way up to the very last phone call that I had with my sister.

[B]

And what was that?

[A]

I mean, she was like, I love you. Be careful. Like, she was worried, but it was out of love. So it was like I. It all flashed all my eyes.

[B]

Oh, wow. What were some of the poignant ones that you. You remember?

[A]

I remember my. I guess it's my mom's. I guess my great aunt. I remember just her voice and her. I mean, this was like. Like I forgot what she looked like. And I remember her face and just her being so happy. And I don't know if it. Something about me being born was, like, healing for her because I think she never was able to have children. But I. I saw that love had welded a piece of her heart, me being born.

[B]

And this is as a baby.

[A]

This was as a baby. And there was just moments with my parents and my siblings and even. Even friends. Even friends, parents. There was all These moments of love where they actually loved me and God had sent them in my life. And I was able to remember, like, there was a friend that I had, and we were in the back of a truck, and he was like, you. I forgot that he. That this had happened, but he hurt my friend's dad, was just saying, I know you. He saw my circumstance for what it was. And he's like, you have such a bright light. I don't want you to ever let the world dim that from you. And I forgot that he had said that. I don't even know how old I was. Probably 12, maybe 12, 13. But I. That was one of those moments that I. He said that out of love. He saw maybe me suffering or something, pain. And he said that out of love for me. Like, he. Because we were. It was one of my. My childhood good friends. So her dad. And anyways, he knew a lot of my.

[B]

That was. That was her dad that said that to you.

[A]

And I forgot all about it. So there was.

[B]

And he brings that back and you. You're re experiencing it. But are you also experiencing what he's thinking?

[A]

No.

[B]

No.

[A]

It was just from my.

[B]

From your advantage.

[A]

I could feel the emotions. I could feel the intent, that the intent was out of love. Like, God made their intent so clear to me. I could feel it. But I didn't see from their point of view, just the intent behind it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And there was a lot of that. Just little moments of my life that I was like, wow, I forgot about that, or I didn't even remember that, or, you know, it was just a life review of love for me is what I experienced.

[B]

Well, that's not every life review. Well, I mean, they're. They're varied. Why do you think God was showing you all the points of love?

[A]

I think, like I said before, I. I think I struggled with being. I knew that my family loved me, but I felt unloved, you know, And I think it made me a little distant to God even, because I'm like, if you love me, nobody loves me. You know, that's. That was my.

[B]

And kind of like he was saying, no, I do. And look, all these points in time that I was loving you through these.

[A]

People from the moment you took your first breath to the very last moment I sent. Yeah. All kinds of love in your Life.

[B]

You know, First John 4 is all about love. And it says we love because he first loved us. Which means that he was showing you his love through all of those, you know, little points of encounter. But we only Experience it filtered through hurting broken humans.

[A]

Yeah, I was very healing, and that's something that I carry with me today because I am very hard on myself. But I realize I have a lot of love. And I realize love when I see it now, whereas maybe I didn't before live life differently, and I see it differently now. You know, I've. I've just been shown this magnificent wall. It's. I just know that it's. It's resembling a barrier. And then I'm back and I'm ascending, and I'm getting a lot closer to what looks to me like this hole in the sky. And it's beaming light, and I'm. I'm ecstatic. I'm pumped. I am. I'm. I'm starting to realize that I'm getting closer to the destination that I'm was headed to. And I'm really excited. In fact, I remember being like, let's go. Like, I know all this stuff. God is real. Heaven is real. Life didn't just end. My life's just beginning and I don't have to suffer. And I. My life, like, everything's amazing. Joy, happiness. I mean, all the most beautiful emotions. Times of infinity you're experiencing. And the closer that I'm getting, the, The. The.

[B]

Is it closest? Closer to the end of this journey?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Tunnel or whatever.

[A]

You're getting stronger, right? Like, the intensity of love and is increasing. It's increasing. Yeah. It's like.

[B]

Did you think, like, I'm going to heaven?

[A]

I don't know if I even thought of that. I think I just realized I was coming to my destination. But the feeling, the pouring into me that I felt like just love and acceptance and truth and happiness and laughter and, I mean, just the most peace and holiness. Like, it just was intense, but, like, infectious. Like, I just wanted more. I was so excited. I was so. I understood what I was leaving behind, and I was okay with it. And my eyes were, you know, let's go straight ahead. Yeah, I'm. I get it. And I hate that what's. I hate what I. What's. What I'm leaving behind, but I can't go back there. That's what I felt. I can't. Now that I know the truth, I can't go back there. And I go through this light, and it's real bright when I go through it. And it wasn't the kind of bright that hurts your eyes. You know, when you stare at the sun, you're like, it wasn't that kind of bright. It was like a Beautiful magnet, type of bright. It was like engulfed you and embraced you and it felt warm and loving and. I don't know, it was beautiful. And it was just. This light was like no words really. Like, no words exist that.

[B]

So you're now out of this travel, what tunnel or whatever you're traveling in or.

[A]

I'm like. Yeah, going through it.

[B]

Oh, going through it.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I like.

[B]

Have you stopped moving now or are you still.

[A]

Not yet.

[B]

Still going. Okay.

[A]

So as I'm. As I'm approaching what seems to be like the, the bigger gist of this light, then the emotions are getting just so intense and I'm so excited. And then I go through this light and all of a sudden I'm in this space. I don't know. There was nothing there, but it was a space. And the first thing I did, I mean, aside from seeing I'm just in this like white light. I'm in the. I'm in the light. Like, I'm. That probably sounds really cliche, but I'm. I'm. That's what it felt like.

[B]

That's where you were.

[A]

Yeah, I'm in the light and I look down and I noticed that my, like, my, My body was still my body, but my, my skin was like kind of see through, ish, kind of. But it was still my. My skin. It was a little like transparent looking kind of. But then I noticed I have a scar on my leg. And it's. I mean, it's all the way across my leg and the scar was gone.

[B]

You noticed that?

[A]

Yeah, I noticed that.

[B]

I was like, interesting.

[A]

The scar's gone and then I'm kind of just taking it all in, like, okay, what now? You know? But I'm. I'm. There was such a hope for the future. There was such. I was so excited. It was like I knew what was going to happen, but I didn't know what was going to happen. But I was excited for whatever was about to happen. Yeah. I don't know if that made any sense, but that's what it felt like. And so I was just excited. And then all of a sudden, another light is coming from above me. Now instead of me going to the light, this light opens up and it starts coming to me. What.

[B]

What did that look like? It looked different than the light all around you.

[A]

Yeah, it was. It was different. It was like this new light came from somewhere different than where I was at. And as it got closer to me, it was similar in the sense of, like, it. The. The lights beamed off of it. And it. And even the. Just like being in the presence of this light, I could feel, I don't know, love, like radiating more from this light that was coming down. And as it. As it got closer, I mean, it had more. It was like. It's like I was in this white space light. But this light was like a sunset, but way more beautiful. Way more beautiful than any sunset, but it was getting closer to me and it was like being able to be close to a sunset, but it was just more beautiful.

[B]

Like the sun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yes, but not blinding, not hard to look at.

[A]

Right? Exactly. And it was above me. And as it got closer, I saw a silhouette of what I believe was God.

[B]

And looking like what?

[A]

It was just an outline of what looked like a person, but it was this. The light was. I couldn't see any features. It was just an outline of what looked like a person to me. A very massive person, but just looked like an outline of something.

[B]

Because it like was silhouetted against the.

[A]

Light or it was like. I don't know, to be honest. I don't know if it was this and the light was. Or if the light was coming off of. I don't know. But I couldn't see. I could only see the outline of what I believe was that person. And.

[B]

And you think that was Jesus or.

[A]

I think so. I'm. I'm not. It was God. Whether it was.

[B]

You knew it was God.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, because. Yeah, it was God because not that I could see him, but it was God's light. I was definitely in the presence of God for sure.

[B]

Did you just intuitively know that or.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. It wasn't like he declared that, but I knew it. Like, you just know it. You know, every fiber in your body. That. That. That's what that is. That's who that is. But. But everything around you is like so beautiful. It's is. It is. I still struggle to find words because there aren't any.

[B]

Yeah, there aren't.

[A]

To really explain it, but was awesome and beautiful. And as it got closer to me, like I. It was so beautiful. I didn't want to take my eyes off of it, but I also didn't want to look at. At it either. I. I felt like I don't. Bashful or something. I don't know. Like, I was excited. I still had that, like, excitement. Like that child. Like I felt like a child again. I. Like I was really alive and. And I felt this love and this just overwhelming sense of belonging and love and peace and all the things that I'M sure you've heard, but it was. That was real. Like, it. It. There was just no question. It was just so real and. And infectious and like, you don't ever. You don't ever want to be away from that kind of feeling.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But in the same sense, you're so humbled by something so powerful. Like, you feel the power and the. I don't know the word, but it feels massive.

[B]

And just the magnificence of the presence.

[A]

Yeah, it's unlike it. Just. There's nothing like it. There's nothing I've ever felt like that, ever. Not even, like a glimpse of it. Not even a tiny bit. It's just so extraordinary being just in the presence of God. And he hasn't even said anything to me. This is just me being me in the presence of God. It was awesome and humbling and all kinds of emotions. And when he got to me, He. He spoke to me. And he didn't speak like I'm speaking to you. He spoke to me audibly in my. In my heart, in my spirit. And he told me that life back there was about me. He said, love is a choice. I am love. You didn't choose me. I know you because I. I created you. But you didn't choose me. You missed the boat. So that. That. That's the first thing that God said to me. And I was like, oh.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah, that was heavy. In the sense of. That's the first thing that God wants you to know, is that you didn't choose him. When I just have been shown the truth. It was a heavy moment for me.

[B]

The truth about what?

[A]

Everything. That he's real, that heaven is real. He's just shown me all these amazing things. I want to be with him because I know he's real now. I want to be with him forever, and I know that's where I belong. But then he's telling me that life was about. That life back there was about me, and you didn't. You didn't choose me.

[B]

Did he explain what that meant?

[A]

He didn't have to.

[B]

You knew. What. What did you know?

[A]

I mean, essentially, I rejected God a lot. He tried to reach out to me a lot in my life.

[B]

Did you see that?

[A]

I knew. I. It wasn't like I was. When he said that, I wasn't shocked. I was hurt that I had chose that. And he was hurt. He was. I could feel his sadness because he wanted me so bad and that he did create me. I knew I was home. Especially when he spoke. It was like an epiphany. I was like, you made me that I had an epiphany. Or maybe it just. I don't know. But that's when I thought you made me. And then I felt his. His hurt because. Because I didn't want him back. And he sacrificed so much for me, and I felt that. And I felt. I felt sorry. I was sad that I did that and. But I knew immediately. Sorry. I knew. There was no question. I knew God had tried to reach out to me after I'd experienced all this. And he's saying you didn't choose me. I knew. I mean, I. I knew that he had tried to reach me a lot. And you had not reciprocated it. And I started to repent and just. I dropped down to my knees and I. I just told him I'm sorry. And. Sorry. I just couldn't believe I was in position that I did that to myself, that I'm finding that God is real. And he did. He did. He did. Like a separation. Like, I didn't see him, but I felt him do this to me. Like, I'm sorry, you know, like.

[B]

But you felt his hurt in that. Almost like he was saying. I was. How did you.

[A]

So bad.

[B]

And you saw the times when he had pursued you. What? Like, what?

[A]

There was a time, there was a thing called S.O.S. my school had. And the Holy Spirit was heavily there. In fact, me and my brother, we both felt it. You know, it was one of the times that the Holy Spirit was very heavy, that it affected me. But then I rejected.

[B]

It was like a student thing.

[A]

Yeah. At school.

[B]

And you heard the message?

[A]

Yeah, I heard it. And it made me emotional. And I felt like God wanted me to get saved, but I didn't do it. My brother did, but I did. And there was moments like that where God 100% wanted me. He reached for me a lot. He was tapping my shoulder. He was. He chased after me. He really did. And I just didn't reciprocate it out of my own anger or my own worldliness, you know, and so I'm learning the ramifications of what happens when you do that. And that was hard.

[B]

I mean, looking back now.

[A]

But since you.

[B]

You do love Jesus and you've. Yeah, you are. What do you think was going on in, you know, in your head during that time? In your heart?

[A]

I mean, I would. I was sorry. Truly, I felt.

[B]

No, I mean. I mean, in those times when. When you rejected him.

[A]

Anger. I think I was just. You know, it's hard to Say, because some of it was sadness, some of it was confusion. Some of it was like, why do I feel this way? Why? What? Everybody else believes in God. Am I supposed to believe in God? I don't know. It just feels like, like a lot. I'm confused. Some of it was just selfishness. Like, that's heavy. I don't like to talk about anything heavy. I don't want to deal with that. There was, there was a lot of times kind of shutting down on it every time.

[B]

Not dealing with.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You know, I've said this to you, but I think a lot of why he said that to you was not so much for you, but for others who will hear this, who maybe have just been going along, like, yeah, whatever.

[A]

Yeah, that was me.

[B]

God, I don't know. That was me. Yeah, I mean, that was me at your age.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was like, I'm doing fine. I don't need God.

[A]

Yeah. Like, what is he?

[B]

You know? And if, if there is a God, I'm good. I'll get, I'll get the pass.

[A]

And I did say that. I said I'm a good person, so I'll, I mean, if there's a God, that has to be good enough.

[B]

But I think a really important thing that you said to me as well before was it wasn't that he was rejecting you. You've, you saw that.

[A]

Yeah, I, I, I knew it was, it was my own choices. It wasn't like I was shocked by my choices. I was sad that I didn't listen. And, and, and he was sad, probably sadder to have to separate from me. And that's, that's what it felt when he said that to me. I went from feeling on top of the world, the best day of my life, to immediately the worst day of my life. Because I knew I was going to be apart from him, whatever that meant. I, I didn't, I didn't know, but I was, I didn't like that feeling of apartness from him. I didn't want to, I didn't want to do that. And he was heartbroken. And I repented for what felt like a long time. I didn't want to make any excuses, and I, I guess I'd accepted. Maybe I, you know, maybe I deserve to be apart from you. I get it, you know, or something. But I just told him how sorry I was. And he said, you've, you've reached, you've impacted, is what he said. You've impacted enough of my people that I've heard their prayers for you. And I'm actually going to let you go back.

[B]

You've impacted enough of my people.

[A]

I've heard their prayers for you. And I was all, okay, so they.

[B]

They, wow, that. That chokes me up. They loved you. You'd been kind to them. They had prayed for you. And God heard them, and he's going to give you another chance.

[A]

This power of prayer saved me. And the craziest part about it is in on Earth that had. Nobody even knew I was dying yet. So that was a future that he had already seen happening. And what did end up happening is my community pulled through for me, prayed for me, had prayer chains. My community showed up for me with, you know, here I am thinking I'm not loved. I was very loved. It saved my life. So he let me go back. And before. Before I came back, he said to me, you'll never be able to be perfect.

[B]

Okay, why do you think he says it?

[A]

I don't really know why he said that, but I know that I'm very hard on myself and I have. I have perfectionist tendencies. And probably the same reason why it's taken me 14 years to tell his story, because I'm not good enough or perfect enough.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I think he knew I was going to struggle with that and send it to you in.

[B]

In love, out of life.

[A]

A gift, you know, don't.

[B]

Don't put that on yourself. You're not going to be able to be perfect.

[A]

Yep. And so as I was coming back, one thing I do remember right before I was back in my body was the smell of earth was horrible. Like, I started to come back, and I remember smelling earth, and it was like, that's what it. That's what I did. And then back in my body, back in the back of the ambulance, I can't breathe. We barely moved, and now I'm on this journey. And he. I did miss one part. He. He said before, he said, you'll never be able to be perfect. He said, I'm going to let you go back, but you have to stay awake. And if you don't, the cards will lay where they lay.

[B]

You have to stay awake.

[A]

You have to stay awake. And if you don't, the cards will lay where they lay. And then he said, you'll never be able to be perfect. And then I was coming back, and I smelt earth for the first time, and it was horrible. And then I'm back in the ambulance, and it's the start of my fighting for my life. Now I'm in the most pain I've ever been.

[B]

That's why he told you you must stay awake.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

This is fascinating. We talked about it, you know, off camera that he seems to work within the laws that is created science or the medicine of our bodies and what they're capable of. Because I heard another near death, near death experiencer that said almost the same thing. Like, I'm going to heal your brain and I'm going to put you back in your body. But warning.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're not going to be under anesthesia when I do and you're going to go through all these surgeries and the same.

[A]

That was exactly what happened to me too. I couldn't be sedated, so I had to be. I just had to go in and be awake. And I mean, they gave me some kind of something, but it wasn't sedation. And I was awake, but I couldn't open my, you know, I don't really remember exactly the, the what was going on, but my, my family could tell you, but I know that they couldn't sedate me because my, my internal organs had already started shutting down. They knew that that wasn't a possibility. So, you know, I was awake. I just couldn't open my eyes. I couldn't communicate until, you know, I tried to convince myself to just, you know, go to sleep. But that came later. But that was, you know, in my first of many surgeries. But once I got into the back of the ambulance, I fought for my life with no help. Couldn't they drop me off at a hospital that couldn't give me any help, couldn't get an ambulance, couldn't get a care flight, couldn't get a hold of the on call doctors, couldn't, didn't have utensils to do surgery. Like for five hours I just sat like that in that state with lake water in my abdomen, couldn't hardly breathe for five hours. And then once, five hours later, they, we got to, we got help. God told me, you, you, you may rest. And that's when I finally let myself fall asleep.

[B]

You said the life flight did come and when you got on there, he, you heard him say, yeah, it was.

[A]

Until I got to the hospital where I was going, when they were wheeling me in, I was still awake. When we got to the hospital, when they were wheeling me in, it was at some point when they were taking me through the trauma center, whatever he said to me, you may rest. And I was like, okay, gotta go, I'm out.

[B]

So he was saying, you've gotta stay awake because he knew this is not gonna be an easy journey with all the complications.

[A]

How far gone I think your body is? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

How many surgeries.

[A]

And I mean, it depends on what you define the surgeries because they were having to take what was left of my internal organs, put them on trays, de. Bacterialize them and put them back in every. I don't know how often, every hour, every. For however long a couple, couple. I don't know if it was a week or eight days or something like that. I had. My white blood cell count was non existent. I didn't really have any of my own blood in my body, so they were having to act as my white blood cell count to keep me alive. And they were like, she's going to die of infection. If nothing else. She just sat with lake water in her abdomen for five hours with nothing to fight off the thousands of bacteria that is in lake water. But I never got infected. Never got any.

[B]

Well, you. You are a living miracle sitting here. Y. Yeah.

[A]

God wasn't dead.

[B]

So when you got home from the hospital, God. God. Did a God wink at you?

[A]

He sure did. Yeah. So, you know, months later, I'm. I coming home and, you know, I've got a wound back all the way down from sternum to my belt line. I've got a colostomy bag now I've got a whole different body that I'm going to have. It's a long journey ahead. But I walked inside and there was a sermon on the. On the TV playing. And the sermon said.

[B]

And who had turned it on?

[A]

It was just on. The TV was just on.

[B]

No one was in.

[A]

No one was. No one was home. Nope, it was just on. And the sermon said, if you're the best person alive and you go and find the nicest, biggest house you can find, and you knock on the door and you say, can I live with you? They're going to tell you, hit the road, Jack. Probably going to call the car cops on you. Get off my property. I don't know you. But if you establish a relationship, these people and they learn that you're the best person alive and you're like, hey, can I come live with you? They're probably going to say, yeah, if you're, you know, if you've established that relationship. He the sermon said, that's how I, I imagine God is. You can't just come as a stranger and live in his home just because.

[B]

You'Re a good person.

[A]

Just because you're a good person. Yep. And I was a Relationship. He wants a relationship.

[B]

And is that, did you take that from that? Like, like it was kind of God saying, I want a relationship.

[A]

Yep. And I was like, you got it. So I, I was like, I need you to call my. Well, it wasn't really my. But I had known a youth minister that, like, all my friends loved. And I'm like, I need you to call him right now. This is as soon as I get home. It's been a long day. I've been discharged. I got all these injuries. It's been a long. Yeah, a long time. But I'm like, I need you to get him over here now. I got to get saved now. And my parents were like, I understand. But like, you've been through a lot. Let's wait till tomorrow. I'm like, no, now. So the youth pastor, he comes to my house and I get saved the night I got home. And, you know, the rest is. It was the start of my walk with God.

[B]

And. And was that when you understood, like, just accepting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That Jesus paid for you so that you could have a relationship with God?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. I. I understood a lot, lot of things. And it took me a long time to unpack everything that I had just experienced. You know, I didn't tell anybody about it for seven years. And after that.

[B]

Not even your mom?

[A]

No. And at one point in the hospital, so when God had said, you may rest, when he said that, I actually saw two of my grandparents, my two grandmas who had already died, who had just. My one grandma had just passed away a couple months. So my. She passed away March 10, and my accident happened July 1. She passed away from. From complications from her colostomy. She had a polyp. And so she had passed away from getting her colostomy reversed. And then here I am a couple months later as a 19 year old getting a colostomy bag on. And so I saw them in the hospital right before I had fallen asleep. And so I. I think I might have said I saw Nana and Nanny and I met God. And that was it. Like, I couldn't. I remember my mom had asked me what happened, because I know something happened. And I. I couldn't, I just couldn't, couldn't tell her, couldn't tell her. And then, you know, years of, you know, I have a colostomy and I have all these surgeries and I've got all, you know, just learning this new body. I was trying to navigate this new life that I'm living now. And seven years later, God, he tells me it's time. You gotta go back to where your accident happened. And, you know, at that point, I was. Let the fear of water consume me. I hadn't gone back to a lake. I didn't want to go to a pool. I didn't want. I mean, showering was enough for me. Yeah, showering was enough for me. No bodies of water at all. And so he called me to go back. And I had a friend with a boat, and they took me. And, you know, I went there just not knowing what I was supposed to do, just that I was supposed to go there. And I. So I went fully clothed because seven years. And I.

[B]

You're not going.

[A]

I'm not going in the water ever again. And we get there, and I know exactly where my accident happens. And I asked them. I'm like, can you just give me a moment?

[B]

And you're on the boat?

[A]

Yeah, I'm on the boat. Anchored right where the accidents happened. And they're like, yeah, sure. And so I'm in the back and I'm talking to God. I'm like, what do you want? I'm here. I'm afraid. What do you want? And he's like, jumping like, God, I'm fully clothed.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah. I'm all, what? No, please. Anything else? He's like, jump in. It took me an hour, but I jumped in. And when I came back up, my fear of water was completely gone. And he's like, okay, it's time. And so I got my family together.

[B]

It's time.

[A]

What, to tell. To talk. Yeah. And so I knew what he meant when he said it was time. So I got my family together, and I told my family for the first time what happened. And that was very interesting. And a lot of tears and, you know, healing in a lot of ways. And that was really the start of me trying to have the courage to tell my testimony. And it's been a long journey. It's been 14 years. I mean, exactly seven years later. And God spoke again. And he said, I need you to speak or stop asking me if you want to help people, because you're not really about it if you don't tell my story.

[B]

And that was the week I found. Yeah, Just posted something and I found it. And my wife reached out to you.

[A]

Yep. And you're like, here we go.

[B]

We have to do it live. I'm like, okay, you're out of work.

[A]

Yeah. I'm like, I don't know what you want or how or you whatever, but this is what is is.

[B]

You felt like. He said, that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You needed to find.

[A]

Yeah, I did. I'm like, he's put it on my heart that we're supposed to. I'm supposed to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Be there. Be with you. Be.

[B]

Well, I think. I think it. It's because it has less to do with the video.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And more to do with relationship.

[A]

Yeah, probably so.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, probably exactly that.

[B]

Well, Riley, I have no doubt whatsoever, you know, that the reason God sent you back is because he knew you were going to accept him right away and he didn't want you to reject him. But I think also.

[A]

He.

[B]

He has raised you up to be a testimony to your generation. I mean, you're my daughter's age. That's why I keep tearing up, too, because I just imagine, you know, all you've been through and. But he loves you. You know that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know how much he does. And he didn't. He didn't want to live in that sadness any more than you did.

[A]

Nope. And.

[B]

And that's not going to be the future. But I think even more important, you know, he loves every person just like he loves you.

[A]

Yeah. It's not just. He didn't want anyone.

[B]

You know, so many. So many people I see today, and I know because I was one of them. And especially when you're young, you're like, I don't. I don't have to think about death.

[A]

Yeah, that's.

[B]

That's like decade.

[A]

Yeah, that's. You don't know later on in life. That's not true.

[B]

You don't know.

[A]

It's not.

[B]

Nobody knows.

[A]

And no day is guaranteed.

[B]

Yeah, no day is guaranteed. But also, I think what you found is. But why do you want to miss out on the best thing that there's ever been?

[A]

100%. Because it's. It's a real life. It's not just up in. Somewhere in the clouds or whatever people think. I don't know. I don't even know what I thought. But it's a place and it's real and it's. He wants us all there. He loves all of us so much. And I felt that. A glimpse of that. And we all should try to be living in that for eternity. Yeah.

[B]

Well. And as you discovered, you know, we don't. We don't have to be perfect.

[A]

He even said that no perfect people allowed.

[B]

And you're not gonna. You're not gonna be able to be perfect. Yeah, but he's already. He's already paid the price to forgive us so we can have a relationship with them through this. Life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We don't even have to wait to the next life to experience relationship with them.

[A]

Yep. And it's funny because I always say this, and it's. It's real, but after my accident, I became very close with God. And so much to a point where, you know, I'm making a PB&J sandwich and I'm all, God, which piece do you want the peanut butter and which piece do you want the jelly on? And he's like, okay, you can make that decision. But that's. But that's.

[B]

Well, you know, there's fun. There's a proverb that says, I don't want you to be like a mule with a bridle and bit.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, meaning he created us free.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He wants us to work with his will and with him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not just be public.

[A]

And that's how what he made me feel is. Girl, come on, you're doing too much, you know? Yeah.

[B]

Handle that.

[A]

Exactly. That's what he was like. Okay, you're. You're over. You're overthinking it. But. But I appreciate it, you know, so.

[B]

If there was one last thing you could say to people who watch this, you know, the. The Riley's or others, Laurel, what would you. What would you tell them?

[A]

Don't miss that boat. You know, there's something really beautiful and not scary and amazing that's waiting for us. If you want it, it's your choice. Yeah, but I wouldn't advise it. Yeah, I'd advise getting on that boat.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for taking time and sharing.

[A]

I appreciate you so much. You have no idea. And. And I appreciate what you're doing and helping people like me feel seen and be able to have people to tell, you know, talk to and tell what's happened. So I appreciate you.

[B]

We're all just doing our part. Telling his story.

[A]

That's right. That's right. Yep. Exactly.

[B]

All right, thank you.

[A]

Thank you so much.