← Imagine Heaven Podcast with John Burke
Imagine Heaven Podcast with John Burke
Three NDEs Give Hope for Texas Floods Families (Special Episode)
00:43:01
Susanne Seymour and Heidi Barr died tragic deaths as children, and Dr Mary Neal drowned. However, they never experienced fear, panic, or the suffering their loved ones imagined they had. They all were rescued and removed from the scene before the...
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- [00:01]
John Burke
Well, I'm John Burke and today my wife Kathy and I wanted to do a special Imagine Heaven podcast in response to the tragic flooding that has happened all around us here in Austin over the last 10 days. Here in Texas, 132 people so far have lost their lives as floodwaters rose about 25ft in 45 minutes. There's still about 170 people missing, and so the death toll is probably around 300 people. And what was the most difficult to hear about were the 36 children who died in the floods, including 27 little 8 and 9 year old girls who were in cabins down by the Guadalupe river at Camp Mystic.
- [00:55]
Kathy Burke
There's really no words that feel adequate or appropriate to say with so much grief. We know that parents and families and friends of these loved ones are feeling right now, but we just wanted to do what we could. And this video we really feel like may give a little bit of comfort to you during this devastating time.
- [01:21]
John Burke
Yeah. And so we invited three of our friends, three women who actually clinically died and had near death experiences, either as children, teens, or in a water accident. And yet they were resuscitated and spoke not of a horrific tragedy that others were seeing take place, but of something that many of them called the greatest day of their lives. And so I just wanted them tell you just their name and profession and how old you were and just the circumstance of when your near death experience happened.
- [02:02]
Suzanne Seymour
Okay. Hello. My name is Suzanne Seymour. I'm a registered nurse. I've worked for many years as a registered nurse and a nursing educator. I was led to this profession actually by my NDE, which I had at 12 years old in a skiing accident.
- [02:22]
John Burke
Mary?
- [02:24]
Mary Neal
I'm Dr. Mary Neal. I am a now retired orthopedic spinal surgeon and I died when I drowned kayaking at the age of 41 in South America.
- [02:40]
Heidi Barr
I'm Heidi Barr. I died at the age of 16 in a horseback riding accident. I'm a retired hospice nurse because it didn't bother me to work with dying people. In fact, I felt it to be a great calling. So thank you.
- [02:57]
John Burke
Well, and just to give a, a short intro to, to, to the accident, then I'd like to for you guys to tell what you actually were experiencing. Suzanne was 12 years old, as she said, skiing in the Poconos with her family when her scarf got wrapped in one of the old ski tow ropes that takes you up the mountain. And the tow rope basically dragged her up toward a gearbox that no human should survive. And her parents watched and her grandparents Watched in horror, imagining the worst. But that's not what you were experiencing, was it?
- [03:41]
Suzanne Seymour
No. I had a completely different experience than my parents. And after returning, when I spoke about it, I remember my mother saying, you know, why are you so elated? How could this possibly be? That you're so joyful and so elated and you look happier than I've ever seen anyone. And I was covered in blood. While my parents were experiencing their grief and their fears, I had the most beautiful glowing presence walk through these trees that were on. On the side of me. And I could see this beautiful light come towards me. And I thought it might be my dad. It felt like the most loving presence and I thought, oh, my dad's here to rescue me. Little did I know that it is my father and he is my savior. And he approached in a very gentle way, full of light. And as he came closer and you know, came right toward, right next to me, he let me know exactly who he was, that he was Jesus and that he was. It was just an instant communication that he knew everything about me and I knew everything about him. And I felt completely safe with meeting him in a moment. And I felt an incredible. I don't know all the words, but they were all positive words, just joy. And I felt elated and I felt excited and I felt overwhelmed with all this love that he was surrounding me with and, and I accepted him into my heart. All that love immediately, it just filled me and we were connected and I knew this love and this light that was around him, that felt alive and that felt knowing and it felt so real and it was the realest thing I ever knew. And with that, when I accepted all that, he. He bent down and I'm just still excited to this day to think of it all. And he embraced me and he lifted me up and carried me and. And I had no worries, I had no pain. I never saw or felt hitting that gearbox and I hit it, but I had not ever to this day, any memory or vision of hitting it. So you know, all the. My grandfather is a very well known engineer and everyone, they can't imagine that I wouldn't have known that. But you know, Jesus just took all that away. The pain, the memory, the. I don't know if it's a memory, but he was there before or however he does it is perfect. I don't know how to explain how he works. It was perfect. And while he was carrying me, I remember, you know, there was. He had some. It was light hearted, he felt comfortable, he felt relatable. Someone that I could share. Like, I was kind of worried about my mom at the bottom of the hill, and I wasn't worried about myself, but I was worried about her because she didn't. I didn't know if she knew him the way I just met him. So I thought, oh, my gosh, how's she gonna. How's she going to handle this? And he listened and he was comforting, and I just knew that everything would be all right. He took me in his arms, and along with. There were two angels, and there was some humor in the trip. One of the angels was larger than the other, and they were making me smile and they were making me laugh and giggle and. And I felt held and within his love. I didn't feel ripped away from my family or my loved ones. I felt that their love and all the love I've ever received was carried within me and carried within him. So I didn't feel any separation from my family. And at home, you know, my. My parents or my brother or anyone. I just felt connected to everyone. And now I'm connected to someone who's connected to all of us. So it just felt complete. And I felt like the circle was complete. And this knowing at a young age became freeing. I felt almost free because I let go of all the things that were negative or that weren't, you know, or that were confusing. Everything was clear. And I was very much alive. And I. And he brought me. And I didn't think I would be alive because I saw the accident happening. And I. But once I was with Jesus, I felt very alive. And I knew, wow, life goes on, and I'm okay, and I'm gonna. I'm. I'm still connected to everyone. So with that, he brought me to a beautiful place. And even in my home now, I have little mementos. Like, there were purple, like a lavender, yellow and white flowers in a meadow, and there were green rolling hills. And I think because my focus was so much better, because I let go of so much fear and worry, and I had no fear. And I was brave and strong and clear and I. And happy with the great. It was the greatest day. And there. There I was in a beautiful place and. And I got to sit by him and I got to see nature, and nature became alive. When I see people going through pain and loss, to know pain is very hard here, but it really there. It let me know that we're going to see each other again. I knew with that experience that I was the daughter of a king. I was his child. And I knew that everyone that he creates is as unique and special, purposeful and loving and all those wonderful things. He is our father and we are his and we're all connected and there's absolutely nothing to fear. Absolutely nothing.
- [10:29]
John Burke
Well, and I know you told me that you were sitting on Jesus lap at one point and felt like he was just like this loving dad and you were his unique kid.
- [10:43]
Suzanne Seymour
And I mean, I was never uncomfortable for a second. Even though he was the most powerful, glorious, enormous, more than I could ever understand, he was able to relate to me at 12, you know, at a young age.
- [11:02]
John Burke
I think your story brings hope that God is good and he knows his children and they're his and he's not. He. He rescues them. And even. And even when we're grown, you know, Mary, Dr. Mary Neal was actually kayaking with her husband in Chile when her kayak went over a 15 foot drop and the nose got pinned, stuck between two boulders. And she was trapped underwater and dead for 30 minutes and then miraculously resuscitated. And Mary told me her greatest fear was actually drowning, but when it actually happened, it wasn't quite what you feared. Right, Mary?
- [11:57]
Mary Neal
Right. Yeah. Now, and listen, let me just start by saying thank you very much for doing this segment of your podcast. Loss is really, really difficult. So I appreciate your doing this and trying to help those who have suffered this loss. And I could talk about many things, but what I really want to focus on is, is what people assume happens. Because I get it when my old son was hit and killed by a car, you know, my husband and many people my other kids really struggled with continuing again and again and again to imagine those final moments. And it's haunting. And I've talked to so many people who are just haunted by what they imagine those last moments to be. And so I really want to talk about that because that's a haunting that is so deep and so profound and so difficult to move beyond. But I have to tell you, it isn't like that. I'm absolutely convinced that our soul, our spirit, our being is pulled out of our body before we experience anything that you might imagine your child experience. When I drown, I went over this waterfall, was pinned underneath 8 to 10ft of water, and four, maybe a nanosecond, I felt confusion. But that was the extent of it. I have spent my entire life in the water, on the water, surrounded by water. I am a water person. I swam competitively. I love the water. But as John already said, I had the only fear I have of Any kind is. I never wanted to drown. I never had a problem. I don't know what the origin is, but I knew that I always thought that drowning would be the most horrific, terrible way to die. And I am pretty sure that many of you who are listening to this podcast have that same assumption or perhaps that same fear. And so I'm a very analytical person, I'm very concrete thinking. And the irony was not lost on me. When I was underwater and drowning, I thought, wow, okay, well, isn't this a fine way to go? But the reality is this. I never felt a moment of fear. I never felt a moment of panic. I never felt a moment of air hunger. I never felt a moment of pain. When the current eventually sucked my body out of the boat, my legs broke and I mean, there was a lot of trauma involved. I even was consciously thinking about the fact that, wow, I should be feeling pain, I should be screaming in pain. But I wasn't. The fact is, after that first truly a nanosecond or less of confusion, I was immediately overcome by a very physical sensation of being held and comforted and reassured by Jesus that everything was fine. I would be fine, my husband would be fine, my four little kids would be fine, regardless of whether I lived or died. And I knew it was Jesus on an absolute knowledge. And I knew that Jesus would be there holding any person who allowed it. And I felt like the only analogy I've ever been able to come up with is when you hold a brand new baby and you're so in love with that baby and you're pouring all of your hopes and dreams and love and your very being into that baby. And I was the baby. And Jesus knew me and as Suzanne said, loved me purely, completely, was very fond of me, and I knew that that would be true of every person. I agree. We are all God's favorite. We are so unique and so special and so completely and purely loved beyond anything that we can conceive of here on Earth. And I was still aware of my physical situation. I could feel the pressure of the water, I could feel the current, I could feel all of those things. But I was free. I felt so glorious. I. I never had the experience of feeling alive and then dead. I didn't feel conscious and then unconscious. I had the experience of feeling alive and then more alive conscious and then even more conscious. And eventually, I will tell you, my legs broken, the whole thing. And one would imagine seeing my broken body that I had suffered, but I did not. I did not suffer for a moment. And My spirit was released to what I'm going to call heaven, but to God's world. And I was immediately greeted and welcomed by people who had known me and loved me as long as I have existed. And they were overjoyed to see me. And it's a funny thing, because I believe that being here on earth and experiencing life is this great journey and a great opportunity, and it's beautiful. And I am not someone who supports the idea of, oh, gosh, there's a better place. Earth is a grand adventure. But what I discovered is that heaven is home. And everyone, no matter whether you had a crummy home life when you grew up or a beautiful life, it doesn't matter. We all can imagine what home, what the concept of home is where you are so accepted and valued and loved and healthy and whole and welcome and known and all of those things. And that is what heaven is. That is what life after death is. That is the reality. We go home. We all go home. So when I was there, I have to say, I mean, I had a great life. I had a great job. I love my husband, I love my children more than anything I can imagine loving on earth, except my grandchild now. But despite that, this overwhelming sense of being home and knowing, as Suzanne said earlier, it's not that we are lost. You know, we talk about loss, but we're not lost. We are connected in a different way. All of the love that is God's that flows through us and flows to each other is still there. I knew despite the fact that I was home, I wasn't disconnected. I was still very aware of what was happening at the riverbank. For example, I could see my body being pulled ashore. I could see them start cpr. And I still felt this incredible compassion for them and empathy because I wasn't coming back. I had no intention to spike, despite having this great life, because again, I'd been reassured that my husband and children would be fine. And there are a lot of things that happened after that. But eventually I was told that I had to go back. And I was sort of given a to do list of kind of mandates and the reasons for coming back. And there, there is a lot to talk about. But again, I really want to focus on the dichotomy between what you might think your child or your loved ones experience and what they experience. Because when I came back, I was on the riverbank of a very remote river. It's a long story, but it took a couple of hours of trying to carry my body up this hillside and during that time, the people who were there that I was kayaking with said that I kept letting out these sort of ear piercing and they called them otherworldly moans and groans. And I mean, they thought I was in misery. And indeed, I mean, my legs are broken and my body was crumpled and I was a mess. So they, they thought it was horrible. And you know, my husband was beside himself. He was having to at one point carry me on his back. And I mean, it was here. But from my perspective, I was so, so happy. Mostly I couldn't believe I was in disbelief that I had to come back. But I felt no pain. I felt this. I mean, I don't have the right words, but I felt this effervescence, this beautiful love that extra expanded into all the world. And joy doesn't even begin to describe what I was feeling. I was feeling like I was still sort of here and in God's world. I, you know, there, there was no differentiation. And so despite the fact that outwardly people would have thought I was in pain, I was miserable, I was terrified. I was all kinds of words that they would ascribe to something just horrific. I felt great. It was wonderful and beautiful and truly it was the greatest gift I personally have ever been given. And so I just want to reassure you that you can let go of your imaginations of what your child or what your loved one may have felt because they didn't. God was there. It is promised to us that God will be walking with us every day of our lives. And it is true, your loved one did not suffer. I don't. Again, I don't know how it works either. But our spirits, our souls, our beings are pulled out before we suffer. So that's the first thing I want to reassure you of. The second thing is they'll be the ones waiting for you. When your own time, your own adventure here on earth is done, when your work is, they'll be the ones there welcome you with open arms. And while it may seem. Seem like a long time for you, I mean, who knows, it could be 20 years, 50 years. I mean, who. One never knows. But there is no time after death. Time doesn't exist. And so really it's just a blank of time. And between now and then, they're not gone. They may be gone from their sight, but they are not gone from their heart. They are not gone from your existence, from the world, from your life. And so it really. It's a loss is terrible. Grief is. Well, it's just. It stinks. It's a, it's a long lonely road when you've lost a child. But there definitely is hope because they are still part of your life and they are taken care of and you will see them again.
- [25:39]
Kathy Burke
Wow. I was just thinking after Suzanne and then Mary, you really are, are sure to tell these grieving families that their little girls, their loved ones really were removed from the earthly suffering. You, you really believe that because that's what you experience. That's what Suzanne experienced. It's like from your testimonies here just now, I was picturing that joy and love of God was just immediately comforting you even before any suffering. And that just, I just feel like that that provides so much comfort for families and, and even Mary, you having been through losing a child too, you under. Understand what they're, they're feeling right now. And it's beautiful that you can speak to that as well as reassure them that, that perhaps they're, I mean their child immediately was brought into the most amazing experience of their lives and still feel their parents presence because the time is different.
- [26:59]
John Burke
The connection there, the connection.
- [27:01]
Kathy Burke
And that's just, that's, that's.
- [27:03]
John Burke
Well, and I think too about those little girls in that cabin. They were probably reunited all together with.
- [27:11]
Kathy Burke
Jesus and they were together when they went into his presence.
- [27:16]
Mary Neal
Yeah.
- [27:17]
Kathy Burke
Wow.
- [27:18]
John Burke
Well, and Heidi, you know, your story, I think just reiterates it in such a beautiful way because Heidi actually grew up in a Jewish family. Her dad was an atheist who every night told her, your life is worthless, there is no God. Jesus Christ is the biggest hoax ever perpetrated on mankind. Her mom was agnostic, but Heidi always believed in God as a little girl prayed to God every night. And when she was 16, she was in a horse riding accident where her horse reared up, stepped back off a cliff and then fell on her. And her sisters watched in horror as the horse crushed her like a rag doll. And yet that's not what you were experiencing either, was it?
- [28:11]
Mary Neal
No.
- [28:12]
Heidi Barr
And I do want to thank you, Kathy and John for doing this. And I want to say I don't know why some of us come back and some of us don't. Sorry. And I'm really sorry for your loss. But if it makes you feel any better, I knew with absolute clarity as I saw the horse's back coming towards my chest that I was about to die. And in that moment, I left my body. So I did not experience my death. But I watched it from up above. I watched my sisters scream and watched, saw the horror on their faces. And my Only thought was, I wish my sisters didn't have to see me die, because I was fine. I didn't care about myself. I felt no pain. I felt absolutely no pain. Fear. And the person with me was Jesus. We had a wonderful experience. We had a marvelous encounter. And he took me to God the Father. I sat on God the Father's lap. He showed me heaven. And I can tell you with absolute certainty, while I was sitting on his lap, that every child who died was sitting on his lap. He held them in his arms. And I knew that what Jesus told me before he sent me back after a really huge argument because I did not want to come back was he told me, my life is in good hands. And I knew everyone's life is in good hands. In. In his hands. And I knew with absolute certainty that God loves children. And they are lifted straight into his arms. They don't suffer. And there was no fear. There was only love. Sorry, I don't mean to cry, but this is a very emotional thing. We're all moms. I'm with Grandma too. So get it.
- [30:26]
John Burke
Well, and you know, there's. I. I know all of your stories very well. And there's, you know, there's. There's so much. There's so much there, you know, because Suzanne was sitting on Jesus lap. I have every little kid that I've interviewed or studied the story of, we're sitting on Jesus lap. You were sitting on the lap of God the Father and had this experience that that's what he does somehow for every. Every child. And that every child is unique and his. And that our love for them will be made purer, made stronger when we are all reunited together with them. And there is no loss. Nothing is lost.
- [31:16]
Heidi Barr
Nothing is lost. Our love doesn't die. Our love stays with them. And their love stays. Their love for you stays with them. You'll see them again. It's just hard because you don't get to see them here. But as everyone else said, there's no time after you die. Time doesn't work the same. So for your loved ones, they are not experiencing this years of time. It's. It's all the same time. I cannot explain, I cannot express the joy that I felt being with Jesus and being with God the Father. I can't express. I can't just even begin to describe the beauty of heaven. But the beauty of heaven compare. Paled in comparison to the beauty of Jesus. Beauty of God, the love radiating from his eyes. Just keep that in your. In your heart, in your thoughts. Because it's absolutely overwhelming and it is irrevocable. It's beautiful. So I do know that because I was conscious as the horse was falling on me, I do know that. I knew I was going to die. And I didn't feel any pain. I didn't feel any suffering. I was pulled out of my body before the actual moment of my death. And I. And even as I watched it, it didn't bother me. I knew that this body, this life is temporary, that our real life is with God.
- [32:47]
Kathy Burke
I wanted to make sure. Heidi, I know your story. And I think when I think about especially the little girls at Camp mystic, they're adventurous. That's one reason why they loved the camp. It was extremely beautiful nature, their adventures there. I know your story. And when Jesus took you out of the suffering before you suffered and the horse crushed your body, he took you on an adventure, right?
- [33:18]
Mary Neal
He did.
- [33:19]
Heidi Barr
He took me flying. He took me. Actually, one of the reasons John and I get along so well is. And I've never surfed. John's a surfer. Jesus took me surfing through the universe. He took me surfing all the way to the Father. We surfed on a wave of light, just like a wave of water, ocean, water rolling under our feet. We body surfed. And it was the most amazing experience of my life. It was the most fun. I wasn't worried about everything that was happening back on Earth or back with my family because I knew it was going to be okay. That's what I knew, that in the end everything is okay. But Jesus and I especially, I think he relates to He. He meets you where you're at. He said to me, this is so cool. I was a teenager, of course he said, this is so cool. Yeah, this is totally cool. He is, he relates to you exactly as you are. He knows you extremely well. And we laughed and, and chatted and talked non stop all the way to God the Father. So there's no way to, to explain all of this, no logical scientific way to explain all of this. But all I knew was joy. All I knew was joy and safety and security and love.
- [34:42]
John Burke
Yeah.
- [34:43]
Heidi Barr
And that's what your kids know to.
- [34:45]
John Burke
Well, I think people don't realize that God is the creator of everything we love. And you know, Jesus said when he was on Earth, let the little children come to me. They wanted to come and jump and play. And he said the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these. And that in, in the life to come, there is, there are children play, they have games, they have, they meet friends. I'VE interviewed thousands of people who have had near death experiences, you know, and showing how the commonalities tie to the scriptures and what God's told us all along. And it will be life. It will be life. But yes, without the sorrow and the pain and the death, is there one word of hope that maybe you would want to give to those grieving as we wrap up?
- [35:40]
Heidi Barr
Me, each of each of you, each of us. The love doesn't die. Love never dies. The love you feel for them lasts forever. The love they feel for you lasts forever. And all of that love is contained in God.
- [35:58]
Mary Neal
All of it.
- [35:59]
Heidi Barr
He is love. So you'll get to read. I know it's hard. Believe me, I know it's hard. But you'll get to re. Experience. You'll get to see them again. You'll, you'll, you'll know that they're okay. And if you, if you can feel it in your heart now to know that they're okay, I mean, if there's one thing I can tell you, it's hope in the Lord. They're with him. They're fine. You're. You're the one who's suffering. They're fine. Just take that comfort if you can.
- [36:38]
John Burke
Suzanne.
- [36:39]
Suzanne Seymour
Well, that was very well said, Heidi. I would say in one word that's interesting, John. One word. I'll try to give you one word. How about eternity? There is an eternity, and that's hard for a lot of us to believe, even though we know it. I feel lucky that I saw it, so I'm here to share that. And it's not all for nothing. We're not born alone. We don't die alone. We don't live alone. We have a choice to be loved. We have a choice to share love. He created it. We're born through a mother. So you have this guide into the.
- [37:27]
Mary Neal
World.
- [37:29]
Suzanne Seymour
And I can promise you that you have a guide when you're removed. A loving guide, amazing guide. So the process is very hard here. I mean, I'm a mom and a grandma and I have, I haven't had an easy road just because I had a near death experience. I've also had my share of, you know, things with family and illness and crisis. But, but I do know when it happens that before I go into any kind of a panic, I draw closer and closer and closer as possible to Jesus. I talk to him. And even if it's through sobbing tears, even if it's, even if it's, you know, an ugly cry, even if it's in anger, or frustration or doubt. You know, you can be doubtful and, and he'll hear you and he'll help you. Just ask him to help you through. Through your doubt, through your fear.
- [38:29]
Mary Neal
Just.
- [38:29]
Suzanne Seymour
Just ask him to help you. Don't try to be perfect. Don't try to feel like you aren't good enough or he doesn't love you enough. None of that's true. The truth is you are worthy. He loves you and he will hear your prayers.
- [38:47]
John Burke
Well, you guys, you guys, stories I know will. Will encourage people. Mary, what would you like to say.
- [38:54]
Mary Neal
As a. I second everything that has been said, but ever the pragmatist, I will be very clear about the process. And the process is horrible. Losing a child is a very, very long and painful and lonely road. And if you've lost someone in the flood, that's what you're looking at. It's. It doesn't change overnight, and you shouldn't expect it to. That journey is filled with so many different emotions depending on what the relationship was with that child. And so part of the problem is that when you turn to your family members, the people who normally can lift you up when you're having problems, they're just as empty as you are. And so it's a very, very lonely road. And I would very much encourage you just claw your way out of the deep, dark pit because you are here. Life is a grand adventure. Your child will be waiting for you when your work here is done and color will come back into your world. It just takes a while.
- [40:38]
John Burke
Yeah, well, and you know, because you've been through losing a child and, and that's why I think, you know, we can't. We knew we can't take away the pain. We can't take away the loss of the grief. But I think remembering you guys stories maybe can help ease the. Any torment of thinking about the suffering. Because as you guys have said, God is good and he is the one who brings them home with him. And that's probably not what they were experiencing at all. Let's. Let me close us just by praying for those who have lost children or lost loved ones in this flood. And, and we'll just close that way. God, we grieve, we mourn with those who mourn. You told us to rejoice with those who rejoice and mourn with those who mourn, and it does. So many here in all across Texas, I know, have just felt an intense mourning thinking of the loss that these parents and families have suffered. And so, God, we ask that you would bring comfort and hope and peace that, you know, we can't give. Our words can't give. But you can give. And like Mary said, that you would take them through the valleys and eventually up the other side to see from the mountaintop beauty in the future. And I pray that you would just give them a sense of hope that this is not the end of the story. And that one day in your kingdom, Lord, we will all be able to rejoice. We will all be joined again in this incredible celebration that all that was lost here on earth has been restored, and everything broken has been replaced, and everything has been redeemed in you. And so we pray that for these families, in Jesus name, amen. Thank you guys so much.
- [42:58]
Mary Neal
Thank you. Thank you again for doing it.