"Barack Is My Home" with Oprah Winfrey

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Barack Is My Home" Featuring Oprah Winfrey

Podcast Information:

• Title: IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
• Host: Higher Ground
• Episode: "Barack Is My Home" with Oprah Winfrey
• Release Date: May 9, 2023
• Description: Michelle Obama and her brother Craig Robinson delve into listeners' personal dilemmas with the help of special guests. In this episode, Oprah Winfrey joins to explore enduring relationships, the impact of COVID-19, and the power of maintaining a supportive community.

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1. Introduction and Setting the Stage

The episode opens with a warm and candid introduction from both Michelle Obama and Oprah Winfrey. Oprah sets a relaxed tone by eschewing traditional formal introductions, instead emphasizing her genuine connection with Michelle.

Notable Quote:

Oprah Winfrey [00:06]: “I'm here for the same reason you are. To get some of that light she's carrying.”

Michelle echoes this sentiment, highlighting the importance of relationships and the enduring impact of her late father.

Michelle Obama [01:07]:

“One of the most important tools we've got is other people... the depth of that relationship, the wisdom he passed on to me... those things are still embedded in me.”

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2. The Ingredients of Enduring Relationships

Michelle delves into what makes relationships last, drawing from personal experiences and lessons learned from her father. She emphasizes that the strength of a relationship isn't solely based on the amount of time spent together but the quality and depth of the connection.

Notable Quote:

Michelle Obama [01:14]: “If we're trying to get through a tough stretch... one of the most important tools we've got is other people.”

She introduces Oprah as the "queen of fostering human connection," underscoring the mutual respect and mentorship between them.

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3. Navigating the COVID-19 Pandemic

Shifting to the impact of COVID-19, Michelle recounts her experiences during the early days of the pandemic. She describes the eerie atmosphere in Las Vegas as events got canceled and the streets emptied, reflecting the global uncertainty.

Notable Quote:

Michelle Obama [05:02]: “We were stuck in Vegas watching the world slowly turn off. It felt like we were in a ghost town.”

She shares her anxieties about her daughters returning home amidst the pandemic, leading her and Barack to implement strict safety protocols at the White House.

Michelle Obama [06:08]:

“We instituted a set of common sense protocol in our household. We had, you know, a Covid community.”

Oprah and Michelle discuss the broader societal impacts, including disinformation and the lack of effective leadership, which added to the collective fear and confusion.

Notable Quote:

Michelle Obama [08:20]: “Watching disinformation... that was the frightening part of it for me, watching the world not deal with this well.”

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4. Rebuilding Trust and Human Connection Post-Pandemic

Oprah raises a critical question about restoring trust in government and interpersonal relationships amidst widespread societal challenges.

Notable Quote:

Oprah Winfrey [09:18]: “How do we get back to trust?”

Michelle responds by highlighting the exacerbating effects of quarantine, which isolated people physically and emotionally, making it harder to connect authentically.

Michelle Obama [10:03]:

“We really need to be with each other. When we gather and we mix our togetherness, we feel better.”

She shares her observations traveling across diverse American communities, stressing that personal interactions often contradict the negative portrayals seen in media.

Michelle Obama [11:18]:

“The vast majority of people are like Toot and Gramps and mom and dad. They are hardworking, honest, decent people who are not entitled... That's who our country is.”

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5. Michelle Obama's Relationship with Barack Obama

A significant portion of the conversation delves into Michelle's relationship with her husband, Barack Obama. She reflects on how her late father influenced her perception of relationships, enabling her to appreciate Barack's steadfastness and support.

Notable Quote:

Michelle Obama [14:26]: “Barack is my home.”

Oprah is moved by this declaration, prompting a deeper exploration of the couple's love story. Michelle shares anecdotes from their early days, illustrating how Barack's commitment to his family and community shaped their bond.

Michelle Obama [16:11]:

“He was the rock of their family. He is present and there when we need him. That's what he was showing me in Hawaii when I was trying to get to the beach.”

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6. The Kitchen Table: Building a Supportive Community

Michelle introduces the concept of her "kitchen table," a metaphor for her close-knit group of friends who provide unwavering support. She narrates the story of Oprah meeting her kitchen table friends, highlighting the diversity and strength of these relationships.

Notable Quote:

Michelle Obama [24:15]: “My kitchen table is that for me... you could let out the insults and the slights and yell and scream and get that out your system so that you could get yourself together.”

This section underscores the importance of maintaining meaningful friendships that offer both emotional support and practical advice, especially during challenging times.

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7. Going High: Responding to Challenges with Grace

A pivotal theme in the episode is Michelle's philosophy of "going high," which involves responding to adversity with grace and positivity. She differentiates between feeling rage and choosing a mature, constructive approach to conflicts.

Notable Quote:

Michelle Obama [28:47]: “Going high doesn't mean you don't feel the rage... it's just the choice of your approach.”

She recounts strategies she employs to manage negative emotions, such as mock interviews with her staff to release tension before public appearances.

Michelle Obama [29:00]:

“Going high is a choice that I think is most mature it has. It's a long-term choice.”

Oprah and Michelle discuss recent political events, like the Georgia Senate runoff, as examples where choosing to go high is crucial for societal progress.

Notable Quote:

Michelle Obama [29:37]: “We have a responsibility to go high because we are living, we've lived through leadership that goes low.”

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8. Conclusion and Final Reflections

As the episode draws to a close, Michelle reflects on the journey of building lasting relationships and maintaining one's inner light. She emphasizes the importance of self-care, protecting one's positivity, and sharing it with others to foster a more hopeful and connected society.

Notable Quote:

Michelle Obama [33:17]: “I hope this helped you recognize your own light so that you can share it with others.”

The conversation culminates with heartfelt gratitude towards Oprah and a reaffirmation of the episode's core message: nurturing enduring relationships and choosing to respond to life's challenges with integrity and grace.

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Key Takeaways:

1. Depth Over Duration: The strength of relationships lies in their depth and quality, not just the time spent together.
2. Impact of COVID-19: The pandemic highlighted the importance of adaptability, safety protocols, and the fragility of societal structures.
3. Rebuilding Trust: Authentic personal interactions are essential to counteract fragmented trust exacerbated by isolation and misinformation.
4. Supportive Communities: Maintaining a close-knit group of friends provides essential emotional and practical support.
5. Philosophy of Going High: Responding to adversity with grace and positivity fosters long-term solutions and personal growth.
6. Protecting Inner Light: Self-care and nurturing one's positivity are crucial for sustaining relationships and contributing positively to society.

This episode offers a profound exploration of personal resilience, the significance of meaningful relationships, and the power of maintaining one's integrity in the face of challenges. Whether you're navigating personal dilemmas or seeking inspiration to foster stronger connections, Michelle Obama's insights, enriched by Oprah Winfrey's presence, provide valuable guidance.

Transcript

[Michelle Obama]

The Light Podcast is presented by Starbucks and Intuit.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wow. Oh, my goodness. So I know all of you have been at some point in your life to an event where the host is standing there before you and says, we have our guest this evening who needs no introduction. And then they spend the next 20 minutes telling you everything that person did since they was born. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna do that. Cause I know you already know who's here. I'm here for the same reason you are. To get some of that light she's carrying. So the woman who needs no introduction, for real, our forever First Lady, Michelle Obama.

[Michelle Obama]

Hi, everyone, and welcome to the Light Podcast. I'm Michelle Obama.

If we're trying to get through a.

Tough stretch, whether that's a couple of days or a couple of years, one of the most important tools we've got is other people. And it's easy to think that friendships or relationships follow a simple formula. The more you see someone or talk with them or text with them, the harder you can lean on them. But my experience with my father tells me otherwise. My father passed away 32 years ago, and sadly, I've lived most of my life without him. But the depth of that relationship, the wisdom he passed on to me, the confidence he instilled in me, the moral compass he steadied me with, those things are still embedded in me, and I draw on them every single day. He did it all in less time than either of us wish we had together. I think we all wish we had more time with those we love, whether they're across the country or sleeping in the same bed with us at night. So what I want to talk about are the ingredients that make relationships endure. How can we foster connections that last? And who better to join me for this episode than the queen of fostering human connection, Oprah Winfrey. Oprah and I have known each other since the day she showed up on my doorstep when Barack was running for Senate. In the time since, she's become a friend, a mentor, a guide. She constantly encourages me to use my voice, my light, to help others find theirs. As you will hear in this episode, she always, always delivers my goodness. Woo.

Woo.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Wow. I have to say, the people came to see.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, I think it was a pretty big added bonus that we got Ms. Oprah Winfrey here, too. I have to just say this. Every other moderator was so glad that they weren't following you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Well, so it's so interesting because I've been watching you on Instagram, and people have Been sending me. Oh, my gosh. You should see what Conan. Did you see what Tracee Ellis Ross? Did you see what Gayle did? Did you see Tyler? Did you see Ellen? And so I was feeling kind of like, oh, my God.

[Michelle Obama]

Was your fearful mind kicking in? My fearful mind. See, even Oprah Winfrey has a fearful mind. You know, actually, you know what happened?

[Oprah Winfrey]

I thought, okay, I'm gonna go back to the toolbox.

[Michelle Obama]

Exactly. You know how to do this. I know how to do an interview.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I know how to do an interview. I'm not scared of the people. So here we are.

[Michelle Obama]

Yes. Thank you for being here, my dear, dear friend.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you. I love you so much.

[Michelle Obama]

I love you, too.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I appreciate you so much.

[Michelle Obama]

Same back at you.

[Oprah Winfrey]

What you stand for. I want to know where were you and what was going on when you first realized this here is serious?

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And we not going nowhere.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. Yeah. You know, interestingly enough, I was on the road becoming. The tour had just finished. We took some time off, and I was on the road doing a couple of speaking engagements, and I was in Las Vegas because I also coupled those engagements with a celebration with my team to thank them for the hard work they had done on the tour.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So this is March 2020.

[Michelle Obama]

This is March. And there was still buzz about COVID in the air, but, you know, it's sort of back and forth. What is this? So we're in Las Vegas, and that's when there was a slow wave of cancellations. You remember that ripple effect because people didn't know what to do.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Correct.

[Michelle Obama]

You know, companies were making split decisions. And so we're stuck in Vegas watching the world slowly turn off. That's what it felt like. You know, events started being canceled, and we're in Vegas. Slowly, the casino. Casinos started to empty out. The streets in Las Vegas started to empty. It felt like we were in a ghost town.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Did you think you needed to get home or did you think, yeah, we.

[Michelle Obama]

Were trying to be responsible and wait until the last event canceled. And then finally they canceled it. We got back on the plane, got home. So that felt eerie being out there on the road when slowly the world was shutting up.

[Oprah Winfrey]

We really weren't sure.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, we weren't sure about Everybody was.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Just using hand sanitizer.

[Michelle Obama]

That's right. That's right. Washing off their groceries.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Yeah, washing off the groceries. Yes. Yeah, that was that phase. Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

And then I was worried about the girls because they were still at school. And I'm thinking, my babies are out there with the COVID and I Was hoping that the universities were gonna be responsible. And then finally the decision was made that they were coming home. But then I was thinking, oh, my God, they're coming to my house. You know, I was thinking, they're going through airports and sitting on airplanes. So Barack and I cautioned them to wear masks. And when they got home, I made them stay in the garage and open all their stuff up. I was going to make them stay out there. I told them to take off their travel clothes. I mean, we didn't know what was going on. My husband thought I was being a little irrational, but I was like, we're trying to. We didn't know.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's not irrational, honey. Stedman was in the guest house for 14 days.

[Michelle Obama]

I remember.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That was during the 14 day period.

[Michelle Obama]

See now, Malia and Sasha, at least I let you come in the house. But we were preparing for. To create a Covid setting, safe community. And since they had traveled, we were kind of holding our breath, making sure they didn't bring any virus home, of course. So we didn't know how long to wait, what was the incubation period. So we instituted a set of common sense protocol in our household. We had, you know, a Covid community. Everybody that was managing in the same way, we were masked. We, you know, sanitized. We. We continue to have a small community of people, but we socialized outside, six feet apart, because Barack was like this, you know, it is a virus. And if we keep ourselves clean, he knew enough to know what this was. So it was scary. But we had information what was scary.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So you were comfortably afraid.

[Michelle Obama]

We were comfortably afraid. What was scary?

[Oprah Winfrey]

As you talk about in the book, being comfortably frightened.

[Michelle Obama]

That's what scary. Yeah. But what scared me, Oprah, was watching the confusion in the world, the mixed messages, the inconsistency, the lack of leadership, the lack of a plan. You know, watching people not take this seriously. You know, people treating the pandemic like it was an extended vacation, people arguing about wearing masks, watching kids partying on the beach in Florida. That. That was scary because I'm thinking all those kids are going to go home to. To a grandparent or somebody with an autoimmune disease, and it is going to be catastrophic. That was the thing that scared me. Watching disinformation, that's scary. You know, watching people attack scientists and the experts who were trying to steer us towards something and just that was the frightening part of it for me, watching the world not deal with this well.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So before reading the Light We Carry, I was feeling And I know so many of you were feeling this, too, because we have all these conversations about how bad things are when we were with our friends. And I think a lot of us were feeling like you felt before you wrote it, that there are so many massive problems, there's so many things that need to be overcome. And it feels like that there's a conspiracy of craziness going on out here. So how do we get back to trust?

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Trusting our government, trusting each other in a way that doesn't make us feel numbed and tired all the time.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. I think we can't underestimate what quarantine did to exacerbate that, because we were isolated from each other physically. And while to some, that felt good, it's like, whew, I'm so tired of people. Right. I think we need to be with each other. You know, we really do. I think it. You know, when we gather and we mix our togetherness, you know, we feel better. You know, we feel better.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Don't you feel better just being here tonight? Don't you feel better?

[Michelle Obama]

Haven't been able to do that. I always say it's harder to hate up close. And we have been isolated from each other. We're just hearing about each other from the news and from our feeds. And my experience with this country is that is a distortion of the truth of who we are. I have traveled all around this country in communities of all different races and socioeconomic backgrounds and political affiliations. And people have, across the board, been kind and decent to me, to my family. Once they get to know us, they may not agree, but we are not the people that we see on tv. And I just want us to remember that, that we do not. We should never fear each other. Everyone there are the outliers of people who are struggling deeply. But the vast majority of people are like Toot and Gramps and mom and dad. They are hardworking, honest, decent people who are not entitled, who are grateful, who are proud Americans who are willing to work hard, who tell the truth. That's who our country is. And. But we have to have leaders that reflect that back. You know, it is dangerous when our leadership says something different.

[Craig Robinson]

My parents were really good at unconditional love. Right.

[Michelle Obama]

This is my big brother, Craig.

[Craig Robinson]

So they just made us feel like our house and our home was the best place to be, the safest place to be. You could talk about anything you want. They never said it's because I said so. Right. They always explain their decisions. And my mom was really good for Saying, I don't know the answer to that, but I'm gonna find out the answer and then I'm gonna give it to you. If you ever asked her a question, they caught her off guard. Right. I don't think many parents did that then, and I don't think many parents do that now. I get the feel of people who sort of avoid those kind of interactions with their kids, the hard interactions.

[Michelle Obama]

Oprah and I will be right back in a minute. Here's more of my conversation with Oprah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Can you finish this sentence? I still hear my father's voice when.

[Michelle Obama]

Whenever. I mean, it's as deep as, like, whenever. His voice is ringing through my head. His voice was, you know, with me on my first day at Princeton, you know, settling myself into this bastion of elitism, you know, he was with me on my first day at my law firm. And even after he died, he still was there walking me down the aisle because he was the model. He helped model for me, the man I should have. So I was able to see Barack. I was able to see. See him, see past all the external stuff. And the external stuff was really pretty good, ladies. But I could see what was important to look for in a man. You know, he's with me now. He is with me on this stage. He is what I tap into when I am trying to speak some truth to people and show my authenticity and my vulnerability. He is there whenever.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I love that you said that he helped you in many ways to be able to see what you needed to see in Barack Obama. Can we talk about your husband for a minute?

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, yes, please. Yes, please.

[Oprah Winfrey]

People have tried to capture your love story. They've tried to capture the love story. They've tried to. They've tried. They made the movie, the drama movie. They did the series on the first lady. They did try, but they can't get it. They cannot get it. But you summed it up so completely in just one sentence that was so powerful that when I read it, it actually stopped me and made my eyes water. You remember what the sentence was?

[Michelle Obama]

No, what was it? Well, I don't know. What sentence made you weep?

[Oprah Winfrey]

Ok. The sentence you were talking about. You've lived many places.

[Michelle Obama]

Mm.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And. Oh, and Barack.

[Michelle Obama]

Barack is my home. Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Barack is my home.

[Michelle Obama]

Barack is my home.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Barack is my home.

[Michelle Obama]

Yes, he is.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Now go home and see if you can ask yourself that question about the person you with.

[Michelle Obama]

You. So silly.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Are they your home? And I appreciate how you break it down to us, that first trip to Hawaii, because when you first arrived in Hawaii you were looking for, and I understand why you're a working woman and had never been to Hawaii. So you're looking for the Hawaii and Hawaii 5o.

[Michelle Obama]

Those of you who remember that show, Mai tais.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Mai Tais and honeymoon sets on the beach and honeymoon suites.

[Michelle Obama]

But instead, yeah, instead it was a trip home to visit his family. That's where he was from. He wasn't going back to some island vacation. He was going back to be with his people. But I was young and I was, it was cold in Chicago and I thought, I'm going to Hawaii with my man. It's gonna be so romantic. And then we landed and we went straight to Tutin Graham's apartment. No ocean, there's a high rise building. Go up to the 10th floor, you know, walk in, looks like my grandparents house. Might as well be on the south side of Chicago. Which was a wonderful thing, right, to know that I saw his, I was familiar with his family, right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Uh huh.

[Michelle Obama]

Then we cuddle up what's on the TV.

60 Minutes.

And you know, they pull out some TV trays and I think we probably had tuna sandwiches with sweet pickles. I was like, yes, I do like this.

[Oprah Winfrey]

But then some days you would go, and then I love the moment where he says, okay, gotta go, we're going back to Tootin.

[Michelle Obama]

Grampson's like going back to the house, you know. So I was young and silly and I started feeling like, I don't know.

If I like this. It's not as romantic as I thought.

Although I didn't act like that. So my mother knows I did not act like some little spoiled person.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I was thinking, where is the Hawaii?

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, where is right exactly. But I conclude the story by saying that, you know, what Barack was showing me was the real of him. And sometimes as people looking for partners, we're looking for what we think are Mai Tais and sunsets. And what we need is somebody who respects and loves their family and is gonna show up for them. They're showing you that again and again.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That's what they're showing you.

[Michelle Obama]

And Barack valued the time that he had with his family. It was nice to go to the beach. But being there for his mother and his grandmother, his little sister, helping them work through their stuff. He was the rock of their family. And let me just tell you, he always shows up for me and the girls in that same way. He is present and there when we need him. And that's what he was showing me in Hawaii when I was trying to get to the beach.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I think what we all so appreciate in both becoming and also in the light we carry is, is how you are so candid about your relationship, about your life, and how everything is not perfect. You say it took some time and a lot of practice for you all to work through your disagreement. So what's your style? You talk about your style and his style.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, you know, I've said this to him. I've said this before. One of the things that's different in how we show love is that because his family lived far away and traveled a lot, he had to learn to love at a distance, you know, and that means there are more words said, more love exchanged, more physical, you know?

[Oprah Winfrey]

I love you.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, I love you. I love you.

Love you too. Love you too. You know, I grew up with everybody, like within eight blocks of each other. You know, all my aunts and uncles and great uncles and cousins and, you know, everybody celebrated birthdays. So we were with each other every weekend, twice a weekend. We were always together. So it was like, mm, bye. I don't have to tell you I love you. Cause I'm gonna see you Saturday, right? So love for me was showing up, you know, it was like, yeah, yeah, stop kissing me. Just do the laundry. You know, I mean. And so. And we also are temperamentally different. You know, guess what? I am kind of hot headed, you know, talkative, easy to get mad. It's like, what? Barack wants to talk rationally and I'm like, rational, rational. Don't come to me with sense. I'm angry. Don't come to me with your three bullet points. You better get out of here and let me cool down. I wanna hear none of that reason. I believe more of us have to be honest about the work that it takes to build a life with another person. To me, it doesn't seem like it's that controversial, you know, I mean, what's.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Controversial is somebody of your stature being dishonest about it.

[Michelle Obama]

That's exactly right. You know, it's like all hashtag relationship goals. And I'm like, I was mad at him in that picture.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Not only that, so what for you is romantic now? What do you consider romantic?

[Michelle Obama]

Romantic is I live, I love when my husband plans something, right? Because it is hard to plan when you are the president or the former president, right? So if he can surprise me with all. And he gets so pleased with himself when he pulls something off, right? And our 30th honeymoon was probably the latest romantic thing that he did because he recreated Our honeymoon, which was driving along the Pacific coast when we got. When we were married, first married, we started in San Francisco, rented a car, drove all the way down through Big Sur, stopped and saw the redwoods, and went through Santa Barbara and then ended in la. And it was just the two of us. And he created that. Now it wasn't just the two of us because we were in a motorcade and we had our agents and three cars behind. They're like 12 people in the back, you know, trying to hide. It's changed. But everyone was excited. All of his agents were like, we're going on a walk next. And it's like. And they were trying to. They were trying to lay back. And all our aides, we traveled with the crowd, you know. But he planned.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It was romantic.

[Michelle Obama]

It was very romantic. It was very, very sweet.

Oprah and I will be right back in a minute.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So in becoming, you told us so much about, you know, the years when he was away and those years, I think, when you were feeling badly in the relationship, in the marriage. Has it changed now that he's home.

[Michelle Obama]

Where all the wives are like, mm.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Has it changed?

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Is he a different kind of husband now than he was?

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Oprah Winfrey]

In all those years with all the pressure?

[Michelle Obama]

No, I think he's been pretty consistent. You know, I've grown, I've changed. I've learned that, you know, over these years that I, you know, I have to make me happy. You know, it goes back to the lessons from my father. He's not responsible for my happiness. He loves me. He cares about me. But most of my unhappiness had to do with choices I was making. Like, I had to be the perfect mother. I had to do everything right. I had to hold down a job and make sure that the. I was holding myself to a standard that was stressful for me and also impossible. And absolutely impossible, because you can have.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It all, perhaps, but you can't have it all at the same time.

[Michelle Obama]

At the same time. Let us say that again.

[Oprah Winfrey]

You can. You say it.

[Michelle Obama]

You can have it all, but not at the same time. You really can. You know, that whole. No, it is impossible, especially if you want to be a good parent, you know, and spend any time with your kids. It's a tough balancing act.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I really appreciate it. In the light we carry, when you talked about how you recognized and Barack recognized that you couldn't be everything for each other, and that's why your kitchen table of friends is so important and, as you say, has helped to take the pressure off of your marriage.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Tell us about that kitchen table.

[Michelle Obama]

You know. All right. I'm gonna tell the story of when you met my kitchen table. Can I tell that story? It's not in the book, but Oprah kindly hosted my 50th birthday party. Wasn't it not your 50th.

[Oprah Winfrey]

It was your 50th, not just your 50th. See, I wasn't gonna tell that story. I didn't know I could tell that story.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, okay. So you said yes before you knew I was talking about it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

No, I know you. I want talk about what I was going to. I was going to a moment ago, say Barack Obama, President of the United States, called me.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, right.

[Oprah Winfrey]

To ask me would I host. And at the end of the conversation, he says, make sure you note that I'm the one making this call. I'm the one that told you to arrange all this. So I'm the one that made the call. I didn't have an assistant call you. So when you were telling that story, I thought, oh, that's why he said that. That's why he said, I'm the one that's making.

[Michelle Obama]

That's right. So we're coming to stay with you graciously hosting us. And you said, bring your friends. And I was like, okay. And she's like, how many people? I said, well, it's like 12.

[Oprah Winfrey]

12.

[Michelle Obama]

And you're like, what'd you say? You were like, you don't have 12 good friends.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I did.

[Michelle Obama]

I was like, I do. I do. I'm not. I'm not trying to stack the date.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Good friends.

[Michelle Obama]

I do. And. And Oprah was like, I got Gail. And what I said was, the only.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Person I know with 12 good friends was Jesus and the disciples. The only person I know.

[Michelle Obama]

But then you met.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And then one of them betrayed him.

[Michelle Obama]

Okay. But then you met my kitchen table, and you saw that I collect and keep my friends throughout life, you know, So I got my roommate from college. I've got my best friend from law school. I've got the moms who helped me in Chicago. We were like a unit. We raised our kids together. Some of those kids are here tonight. They are like my children. I had a whole new set of mom friends and women in Washington, D.C. who could understand that life, a couple of who were married to people in Barack's administration. And when you're in that world, you need someone who understands, like, that plight. They were my ride or dies. So I tend to collect people throughout life and keep them because it's like different people bring different things to my life. But the bottom line is that I call it my kitchen table, because the kitchen table in our home was always the place where we felt safe. You know, we'd come in as little kids from the woes of the playground and the, you know, give and take of the neighborhood and complaining about a teacher or some unfairness, and you could always let it out at the kitchen table. You felt safe and seen. It was probably the first table where I felt seen by my mother and father, who loved to hear our stories and our voices. But you always got rejuvenated at that table. You know, you could let out the insults and the slights and yell and scream and get that out your system so that you could get yourself together and go back out there like you had some sense, you know? So my kitchen table is that for me, you know, and not. There are so many different aspects to my life. You know, I've had so many different facets, from motherhood to professionalism and on and on and on, that that table has just gotten bigger and bigger.

[Oprah Winfrey]

I love the beginning of the book. You have this poem by Alberto Rios that says, if someone in your family Tree was trouble, 100 were not the bad, do not win, not. Finally, no matter how loud they are, we simply would not be here if that were so.

[Michelle Obama]

A simple truth.

[Oprah Winfrey]

So that brings us to the phrase that has become synonymous with your name. When they go low, we go high. We go high. And you say that going high usually involves taking a pause before you react to anything, correct?

[Michelle Obama]

Absolutely.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay, so what has happened recently in your life or in the country that you had to step back and say, let me pause and try to get to high?

[Michelle Obama]

Watching the Georgia Senate, you know, just watching that before it was decided, you know, watching that turn into a runoff.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Ooh, ooh, where are we in the world that that even had to happen.

[Michelle Obama]

You know.

[Oprah Winfrey]

That Barack had to go down there and literally preach to the people. Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

Be like, don't do this.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Don't. What are y'all doing? Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

So, yeah, there. Look, there's plenty in the world that makes me mad.

[Oprah Winfrey]

And wait a minute. Can I just ask you this?

[Michelle Obama]

Yes. Yes.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Do you go high immediately?

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay, now, that's what the kitchen table is for. Remember, I go sit at my kitchen table, and we have a golo session. You know, we just go low. We're all picking ourselves off the floor.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Okay.

[Michelle Obama]

I used to do this thing with my staff even in The White House, where before I was give a speech or do an interview, we'd mock answer the questions because they knew I needed to get the low out, you know, so I would have.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Now we feel better knowing that.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh yeah, I would just play out what I would call presidential ending statements that I could make. I'd be like, you know what, we could just go home if I said burn, right? And my team would look and go, yeah, don't do that. You know, but sometimes you, you know, so going high doesn't mean you don't feel the rage, right? It doesn't mean that you're not supposed to feel. It doesn't mean that you are complacent in unfairness and inequality. It doesn't mean you don't do the work. It's just the choice of your approach. And going high is a choice. It's a choice that I think is most mature it has. It's a long term choice. And it's not you just wallowing in the gut feeling of what you feel, that, that at that moment, that's self indulgent. And when you are a leader with a platform, we can't afford to indulge our innermost ugly. Right? We have a responsibility to go high because we are living, we've lived through leadership that goes low. And no one feels good in that. It doesn't lead to solutions. It just doesn't work. So I answer, I end the book by answering the question that everybody has been asking me. Still go high, Michelle, now Really? Really. And my answer is yes, absolutely. We always go high. We go high, but we do the work, you know, and that's what I want young people to know. That, you know, the light we carry is in all of us. You know, we have to learn how to build it up in ourselves first. We can't look to other people to build it up in us because sometimes they don't have it in them, you know, and once we build it up, we have to protect it. Protected with a good kitchen table. Keeping people in, but also letting people go when they're not serving you for the best.

[Oprah Winfrey]

When they're losing oxygen, when they're losing.

[Michelle Obama]

Oxygen, you know, you have to protect yourself from the poison that's out there. You've got to get out of other people's mirrors, right? And then once you've buttressed yourself and you've got it together, then it's our responsibility to share that light. That's the going high part. So as you think about interacting, speaking out, texting, using social media. Think about the light you carry. Lead with that light, because light begets light. Hope begets hope. Going high begets more of it. That's why we do it.

[Oprah Winfrey]

Thank you for reminding us of the light we carry. Michelle Obama the YouTube theater free.

[Michelle Obama]

When I wake up in the morning, Love.

Look, there will be days where you'll want to go low and just sit in it. Just stew for a while. And believe me, I have been there. But I've learned that if you spend too much time down there, you'll end up asking yourself, what am I doing to myself? What am I doing to my light? That's why we're talking about going high and building lasting relationships. It's why in other episodes we've talked about the power of small, the importance of building your kitchen table, of friends, of navigating relationships and building meaningful partnerships, of the joyful, maddening journey of raising children, and so much more. There's no right or wrong way to do any of this. We're all just trying to find our way. Hopefully the conversations in this podcast have given you some tools and practices and attitudes that will help clear a path through the darkness and into the light. It is wonderful to have a friend like Oprah to explore all of this with, as well as Ellen DeGeneres, Conan O'Brien, Gayle King, Hoda Kotb, David Letterman, Elizabeth Alexander and Tyler Perry throughout this season. Because, believe it or not, this is actually our final episode. So I just want to say thank you. It has meant so much to have you with me on this journey and I hope you can find something useful from it in your journey. I hope there's something in here that gives you comfort or a new perspective. And more than anything, I hope this helped you recognize your own light so that you can share it with others. Thank you so much everybody. I'll catch up with you again soon. Sometime. Until then, take care.

A lovely.

[Narrator]

This has been a Higher Ground and Audible original produced by Higher Ground and Little Everywhere Executive produced by Dan Fierman and Mukta Mohan for Higher Ground and Jane Marie for Little Everywhere Audible executive producers Zola Mashariki and Nick D'Angelo Audible co producers Keith Wooten and Glyn Pogue produced by Mike Richter with additional production by Joy Sanford, Dan Gallucci, Nancy Golumbiski and Lisa Polak with production support from Andrew Epen, Jenna Levin and Julia Murray Location recording by Jody Elf Special thanks to Melissa Winter, Jill Van Lokeren, Krystal Carson, Alex Macieli, Hayley Ewing, Marone Hailey Mescal Ciara Tyler, Carl Ray, Njeri Radway, Meredith Koop, Sarah Corbett, Tyler Lechtenberg and USRA Najm. The theme song is Unstoppable by Sia. The closing song is Lovely Day by Bill Withers. Audible Head of US Content Rachel Gyazza, head of Audible Studios zola mashariki Copyright 2023 by Higher Ground Audio, LLC. Sound recording Copyright 2023 by Higher Ground Audio, LLC. Voiceover by Novena Karmel this episode was recorded live at the YouTube Theater in Los Angeles.

[Michelle Obama]

When someone else instead of me Always seems to know the way Then I look at you and the world Alright.