Summary7 min read

Podcast Summary: “Call These Times What They Are: Janky” with Hasan Minhaj

Podcast: IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Host: Higher Ground
Episode Air Date: April 8, 2026
Guests: Hasan Minhaj
Hosts: Michelle Obama, Craig Robinson

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the evolving complexities of American identity and adaptation, especially for immigrants and their families, through the lens of humor, personal anecdotes, and candid conversation. Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson are joined by acclaimed comedian Hasan Minhaj to discuss familial expectations, the immigrant experience, learning to belong while remaining true to oneself, and how comedy serves as both personal catharsis and social commentary. The episode is characterized by warmth, reflection, and sharp-witted humor, making space for both levity and honest reckonings with society’s “janky” state.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Defining "Janky" Times in America (00:00 – 03:00; 60:22 – 61:13)

Michelle Obama opens the show noting America goes through different “versions” and argues, “I think we're in just a janky version right now” (00:04, 60:22).
Hasan Minhaj affirms: “Shit is jank right now. Super jank.” (00:22, 60:50).
“With each version, we learn something about ourselves as a country... I'm kind of digging the way folks are beginning to respond right now.” – Michelle Obama (61:00)

Early Life, Family, and Upbringing (13:13 – 28:00)

Hasan reflects on his immigrant family: “My father’s an organic chemist, my mother is a physician. I didn’t even know [comedy] was a thing... I grew up in Davis, California. Showbiz felt a million miles away.” (13:22 – 14:05)
Describes the emotional landscape of his childhood: “You just know what you’re living through... I want our home to be the sleepover house. Stability is what I want to give my kids.” (28:15 – 29:28)
The pressure and pragmatism in immigrant communities: “Your time is valued at zero... Every dollar you spend, it’s a depreciating asset.” (29:47)

Discovery of Comedy & Influence of Teachers (21:26 – 24:42)

Hasan details his path to performance through a supportive high school “computers teacher,” Ms. Takeuchi, who steered him to impromptu speaking competitions: “You have this gift of gab... Ms. T was the first person to say, ‘I think you’re incredibly capable.’” (24:42 – 25:27)
Early stand-up experiences, lessons in failure: “When you bomb, you feel it... It scars.” (19:32–19:42)

Comedy as a Tool for Identity & Social Commentary (31:03 – 41:30)

Chris Rock’s Never Scared special was a turning point for Hasan: “Comedy is a release on the pressure valve. He’s being rewarded for being irreverent.” (31:59–32:21)
On the complexity and purpose of standup: “All the answers you’re looking for exist within you... You are the writer, director, producer, head coach, promoter. That’s what’s really powerful about it.” (40:27–41:01)
Michelle argues, “I think it's the most clever form of op-ed... weaving together story and life. It teaches and educates." (39:31)

Formative Influences & Representation (41:30 – 44:46)

Hasan draws inspiration from Black comedians and activists: “Through the gift of oration... you can navigate any room and add your chapter. Being different is the most powerful thing you can be.” (41:39–42:36)
Current projects, like a Bollywood dance movie, are celebrated as “a love letter to the culture” and testament to his unique “third-culture” experience. (43:25–44:46)

America’s Contradictions on Merit & Belonging (45:24 – 49:43)

Sharp critique of the “myth of merit” in America: “Merit only matters for a particular type of American. I call it white valedictorian energy.” (46:23)
“Excellence and being an American looks a particular way... Now at age 40, I’ve gotten to see, over many presidents, oh, it hasn’t always been this way.” (46:58)
Michelle’s Princeton story: “You get to campus and realize, oh, there are a whole bunch of different forms of affirmative action that are not talked about... Legacy, sports, all kinds of ways kids get in.” (47:17–48:34)
“We're a young country... we're in a dip now.” (49:44)

Parenting, Teaching Truth, and Navigating Otherness (49:48 – 60:22)

Hasan reflects on guiding his children’s sense of self in America: “I haven’t told them yet about how they may be perceived as different... How do you cross that?” (50:04–50:35)
“Kids let you know when they need to know... Staying close to your kids, being aware, making sure they feel comfortable sharing.” – Michelle Obama (55:30)
Hasan’s aim: “The software update I’m trying to do with them... Daddy loves you regardless. I don’t know if that was true with me.” (60:12–60:22)

Intergenerational Growth and Evolving Family Dynamics (62:22–66:17)

“I see them for who they are... their temperament... I want them to know daddy loves you regardless.” (59:19–60:22)
The “transformation” of strict parents into tender grandparents: “Who are these people?” (64:07–64:31)
Importance of legacy: “I want my kids to know the world their grandparents and great-grandparents lived in. That would be meaningful.” (65:39–66:17)

The Listener Question: Adaptation vs. Authenticity (67:31–72:22)

Marcel, an immigrant and LGBTQ listener, asks: “How do you tell the difference between healthy adaptation that helps you grow and over-adaptation that pulls you away from yourself?” (67:33–68:10)
Michelle: “I don’t think I’ve ever shown up in a way I didn’t feel good about... but I imagine the pressures are tougher now.” (68:29–69:37)
Hasan: “Sometimes, the room changes you... but have the moral clarity and personal conviction: ‘This is who I am... There are just certain things about my convictions I won’t alter for anybody.’” (71:38–72:22)
Finding belonging is framed as a mix of self-knowledge and learning to connect without losing one’s identity.

Closing and What’s Next for Hasan Minhaj (72:25–74:18)

Hasan discusses his ongoing tour ("Hasan Hates Ronnie, Ronnie Hates Hasan: Hatred is the Answer") and the upcoming Netflix film about collegiate Bollywood dance, Best of the Best.
Michelle’s closing praise: “I enjoy your comedy. You are smart. You are a beautiful storyteller... It takes a level of vulnerability to let us inside your life.” (73:32–73:58)
Hasan jokes, “You had me at smart... you gotta know when to end the set!” (73:58–74:11)

Notable Quotes

Michelle Obama: “I think we're in just a janky version, right?... the new version doesn't make the old one bad. It's necessary for growth.” (00:04, 60:22)
Hasan Minhaj: “Shit is jank right now. Super jank.” (00:22, 60:50)
Hasan Minhaj: “All the answers that you're looking for exist within you.” (40:27)
Hasan Minhaj: “When you bomb, you feel it. It scars... it gets worse... An older comedian told me, just get on stage again ASAP.” (19:32–20:55)
Michelle Obama: “Politicians barely get an audience... but a comedian can weave together a story and you're teaching.” (39:31)
Hasan Minhaj: “Being different is probably the most powerful thing you could be if you don’t want to be an act that’s similar to another act.” (42:17)
Hasan Minhaj: “Merit only matters for a particular type of American. I call it white valedictorian energy.” (46:23)
Michelle Obama: “There are a whole bunch of different forms of affirmative action that are not legacy admission... It’s powerful just to know and understand.” (47:17–48:34)
Michelle Obama: “When we talk about how do you feel about the country... there are versions of the country that happen. The new version doesn't make the old one bad. It's necessary for growth.” (60:22)
Hasan Minhaj: “The software update that I'm trying to do with them is unconditional love... That's where I'm trying to spend as much time with them as I can, but I also want them to know, like, daddy loves you regardless. I don't know if that was quite true with me.” (60:12)
Michelle Obama: “I don't think I've ever shown up in a way I didn't feel good about.” (68:29)
Hasan Minhaj: “Sometimes the room changes you... Have the moral clarity and personal conviction: This is who I am, and don't change it for anybody.” (71:38–72:22)

Timestamps for Important Segments

00:00 – Defining “Janky” America
13:13 – Hasan's family, immigrant upbringing, and basketball dreams
19:18 – Early comedy, first bomb, lessons on failure
21:26 – Discovery of comedy via Ms. Takeuchi and impromptu speaking
31:03 – Chris Rock and the draw of irreverence
39:31 – Comedy as culture/education (Michelle)
41:39 – Representation, self-worth, and adding to the canon
45:24 – The myth of merit and America’s contradictions
50:04 – Parenting in a racialized context: teaching children truth & identity
59:19 – Intergenerational love, visibility, and affirmation
67:31 – Listener question: adaptation versus authenticity
72:25 – Hasan’s current projects and closing reflections

Tone and Language

The episode is conversational, vulnerable, and humorous—a blend of warmth, sharp insight, and support. The hosts swap jokes and personal stories freely with Hasan, challenging him and themselves to get real about parenting, culture, identity, and the precarious hopefulness of these “janky” times. There is laughter throughout (“You had me at smart”; “Who are these people?” discussing grandparent transformations), but the conversation retains depth, particularly regarding society’s expectations and the personal cost of adaptation.

Takeaway

This episode serves as both balm and blueprint for listeners navigating a changing, sometimes hostile world. Hasan Minhaj’s journey, told with wit and humility, is woven with lessons about the power of humor to heal, the necessity of self-awareness, and the ongoing struggle to belong without losing yourself—even (and especially) in “janky” times.

Loading summary

Transcript479 lines

[00:00]
Michelle Obama
When we talk about how do you feel about the country? You know, there are versions of the country that happen. Right. And the new version doesn't make the old one bad. It's necessary for growth. And I think we're in just a janky version, right?
[00:18]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah, janky's right.
[00:19]
Michelle Obama
It's a janky version. Right now.
[00:21]
Hasan Minhaj
May I curse Mrs. Obama?
[00:22]
Michelle Obama
You may.
[00:22]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah. Shit is jank right now.
[00:23]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[00:24]
Hasan Minhaj
Super jank.
[00:25]
Michelle Obama
Yes. Yeah.
[00:26]
Craig Melvin
Your dad's not gonna be happy.
[00:27]
Hasan Minhaj
He's not gonna be happy.
[00:34]
Michelle Obama
This episode is brought to you by Shipt. What's going on with you these days?
[00:42]
Craig Melvin
Not much. I'm enjoying life, making it through the winter.
[00:49]
Michelle Obama
Yeah, the winter is a slog. How's the basketball season going for the.
[00:55]
Craig Melvin
We have some challenges for the Highlanders. For the Highlanders, yes. We have some challenges, but we're doing all right. We're doing all right. How you doing?
[01:03]
Michelle Obama
I'm good. I am doing good, but for the world, you know, it's like when you have your health and your family is good and friends are good, then there's not that much to complain about.
[01:16]
Craig Melvin
Yeah.
[01:17]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah.
[01:18]
Michelle Obama
Where are you staying this visit?
[01:19]
Craig Melvin
I'm staying in an Airbnb once again. But this, you know, this has been a really fun trip because everybody's here.
[01:28]
Michelle Obama
Yeah, this has been a fun trip.
[01:30]
Craig Melvin
My whole family's here, even for the kids and Kelly, which she never comes, hardly.
[01:37]
Michelle Obama
Yeah, yeah. Well, it is her birthday weekend, so
[01:40]
Craig Melvin
it is her birthday weekend, so we have. We're staying in an Airbnb that just happens to be one of my favorite actors. Former homes.
[01:50]
Michelle Obama
Oh, really?
[01:51]
Craig Melvin
Who's Orson Welles?
[01:53]
Michelle Obama
Oh, my goodness. What's that house like? Is it some big mansion? Is it spooky?
[01:57]
Craig Melvin
It isn't. It isn't. And Orson Welles movie posters are all over the place, books he read. He has the Encyclopedia Britannica still there.
[02:10]
Michelle Obama
Oh, I remember that.
[02:11]
Craig Melvin
You remember those?
[02:12]
Michelle Obama
Yeah, yeah.
[02:13]
Craig Melvin
And it's got a pool table, so the kids were having a blast. We had dinner together. It was a lot of fun.
[02:19]
Michelle Obama
That sounds good. A lot of fun. That sounds good. So they all gave the Airbnb a thumbs up.
[02:24]
Craig Melvin
They gave it a thumbs up. And the kids still don't know who Orson Welles is, though.
[02:28]
Michelle Obama
Well, yeah, it's.
[02:30]
Craig Melvin
They don't like movies in black and white, but there was a Citizen Kane poster. I mean, I feel warm there. So it's gonna be a good week.
[02:39]
Michelle Obama
That's good. That's good. Well, it's gonna be a good episode.
[02:42]
Craig Melvin
It sure is today.
[02:44]
Michelle Obama
Because we have A funny man. Yes, and I love a funny man.
[02:54]
Craig Melvin
Yes, you do.
[02:55]
Michelle Obama
So he better be fun. All right, but why don't you introduce our guest?
[03:01]
Craig Melvin
Put the pressure on.
[03:02]
Michelle Obama
You better come in funny.
[03:04]
Craig Melvin
No, our guest today is Hasan Minaj and he's a two time Peabody award winning comedian.
[03:16]
Michelle Obama
Sounds like he could be funny.
[03:17]
Craig Melvin
Yeah, yeah, you win twice. Two time Peabody. I mean, that's just not any going to be good. Yeah. But he's best known for his Netflix special Homecoming King, which I saw, I saw that too. Which was very funny.
[03:32]
Michelle Obama
He was funny then, so I hope he's funny today.
[03:35]
Craig Melvin
In addition to Homecoming King, you got the king's jester. And most recently, off with his head. In 2024, he created and hosted the Emmy award winning political satire Patriot act with Hasan Minaj and currently hosts the podcast and digital series Hasan Minaj doesn't know.
[03:59]
Michelle Obama
Yeah, doesn't he know? We'll find out what he knows.
[04:01]
Craig Melvin
Well, we're gonna find out what he knows, but I'm really excited to talk to him because I found out in the research that he was into basketball, but I didn't know that.
[04:11]
Michelle Obama
Oh my God. Are we gonna talk about basketball?
[04:13]
Craig Melvin
How much he was into basketball? So you may have to.
[04:17]
Michelle Obama
This may not be true.
[04:18]
Craig Melvin
You may have to lay back for a minute.
[04:20]
Michelle Obama
Well, let's get out here without any further ado. Hassan, enter.
[04:26]
Craig Melvin
Come join us.
[04:28]
Michelle Obama
How are you? It's good to see you. I like the jacket.
[04:32]
Craig Melvin
Look at you, buddy.
[04:34]
Hasan Minhaj
No pressure at all.
[04:35]
Michelle Obama
No pressure. Okay.
[04:37]
Craig Melvin
These are new chairs.
[04:39]
Michelle Obama
No, absolutely.
[04:41]
Hasan Minhaj
Mrs. Obama, I would love to make you laugh.
[04:44]
Michelle Obama
Now, Craig already told you that you could not spend the whole time calling me Mrs. Obama. But you explained that if you don't,
[04:51]
Hasan Minhaj
my mother and father will be very upset. They've met you before, by the way.
[04:55]
Michelle Obama
We're at one of the Andrews Air Force Base.
[04:57]
Hasan Minhaj
Oh, wait, you and Mr. Obama hosted.
[05:00]
Michelle Obama
How were they at Andrew Air Force Base.
[05:03]
Hasan Minhaj
You and your husband. I don't know if you've heard of him. He was the president of the United States. Yes, For a little bit about eight years. But you hosted an event at the Andrews Air Force Base.
[05:12]
Michelle Obama
We did.
[05:12]
Hasan Minhaj
Where you invited a bunch of comedians. We did, yes.
[05:16]
Michelle Obama
Oh, my God.
[05:17]
Hasan Minhaj
David Letterman.
[05:18]
Michelle Obama
Yes.
[05:18]
Hasan Minhaj
A. They're way more famous. David Letterman. Because you're like, I don't remember this. Let me.
[05:24]
Michelle Obama
But now I.
[05:24]
Hasan Minhaj
No, no, let me get to their IMDb credits. A guy named David Letterman. John Mulaney, very.
[05:28]
Michelle Obama
Yeah, yeah.
[05:28]
Craig Melvin
Wait, how many, how many comedians?
[05:30]
Hasan Minhaj
I'm gonna keep listening. Jon Stewart. Much More famous than me. Mike Obiglia, he's about where I'm at. And, yeah, we performed for the. The troops there at Andrews. Air Force baseball.
[05:42]
Craig Melvin
Yeah.
[05:43]
Hasan Minhaj
And so I brought my parents. My mother works at the va, so she's worked at the VA for a very long time. And then they got to.
[05:49]
Michelle Obama
That's what. See, that's what I was getting at. It was like, they must be in connection with veterans or veterans of some sort. That's what I.
[05:59]
Hasan Minhaj
That's what I thought. But I'm also like, I will unapologetically do a plus two.
[06:05]
Michelle Obama
They don't have to be connected with the presidency. You just didn't get a plus two. It wasn't. You couldn't just like, really? No, no. I mean, there's all the security and the vetting and all that. So that's. Your parents probably were invited because of their status.
[06:24]
Craig Melvin
Big shots, maybe.
[06:25]
Hasan Minhaj
I mean, Mrs. Obama. I mean, I can give you all the tricks, I'm sure you're aware, but if you just reply all to the thread early enough, then everybody comes in.
[06:35]
Michelle Obama
So that place wasn't as secure as I thought.
[06:37]
Hasan Minhaj
No, no. I mean, my dad was backstage in the green room, and he was just walking up to everybody, right? He walked up to David Letterman. It was pretty awesome.
[06:46]
Michelle Obama
What do you say?
[06:47]
Hasan Minhaj
So all the comedians, obviously, David Letterman legend. But what's great is for my dad immigrated to the United States in 1982. Organic chemist for 35 years for the state of California. So he kind of treated the backstage the same way he would treat, like Costco on a weekend. Are those. Are the khakis? So he was like, is that David Letterman? And so all the comedians, me, Mulaney, we are treating him like he's just on the Mount Rushmore of comedy. And my dad's like, he's interviewed a lot of people. So my dad goes up to him and he's like, hey, who's the favorite president you've ever interviewed? He's like, did you interview Richard Nixon?
[07:29]
Craig Melvin
Oh, yeah.
[07:30]
Hasan Minhaj
So Najmi got right to it. And I really thought, where my dad, you know, obviously where he placed the joke, where he placed the bit. I thought it was quite brilliant to just get right to it. Cause you've gotten this of like, who have you met before that you. But my dad was like, Richard Nixon. What's his name?
[07:46]
Michelle Obama
What did Dave say?
[07:47]
Hasan Minhaj
And Dave was like, you know, nobody's really asked me about Nixon. And so they're just having this long conversation about Nixon and Watergate, and it was really awesome. And then all these comedians that I really admire were like, who?
[07:59]
Michelle Obama
Who's that?
[07:59]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah, who's this Indian man talking to this old dude who looks like Abraham Lincoln? I was like, oh, that's Najee B. Minhaj talking to David Letterman.
[08:06]
Craig Melvin
So is he a comedian?
[08:07]
Hasan Minhaj
My dad.
[08:08]
Craig Melvin
I know he's an engineer.
[08:09]
Hasan Minhaj
He's an organic chemist. But he thinks he's a.
[08:12]
Craig Melvin
He does think he's.
[08:13]
Hasan Minhaj
But. But also, like, if you meet comedians, they'll tell you they're not even the funniest person in their family.
[08:20]
Michelle Obama
No, that's right.
[08:21]
Hasan Minhaj
I'm not the funniest person. Like, it's. I'm probably the least funny person in my family.
[08:32]
Craig Melvin
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[13:14]
Michelle Obama
So when did you know you wanted to go into comedy and how did your parents feel about it? I mean, I know you talked about this a bit, but you know, your
[13:22]
Hasan Minhaj
father's an engineer, my father's an organic chemist.
[13:25]
Michelle Obama
An organic chemist, which is even more smart guy.
[13:29]
Hasan Minhaj
Totally. And then my mother is a physician. I didn't even know it was a thing, to be quite honest. I didn't know it was an industry that paid money that you can make a living from it. Also, I grew up in Davis, California. You know not to brag, it's the closest city over Sacramento. Again, not trying to city drop and not trying to be elitist. We have two malls. There's a lot. There's a lot there. UC Davis, my former alma mater. But so so showbiz and Hollywood felt a Million miles away to be. My first love was basketball. I really. That was on, like, my vision board. I really wanted to play varsity basketball.
[14:05]
Michelle Obama
Did you think you could go pro
[14:08]
Hasan Minhaj
when you're in second or third grade, when you're doing the book report? I'm doing a book report, yeah.
[14:14]
Michelle Obama
Did you have the, you know, walk around with a ball and wristbands?
[14:18]
Hasan Minhaj
I did have the wristbands. And I would. Yeah, I would bag mom. Like.
[14:21]
Craig Melvin
Did you play in high school?
[14:22]
Hasan Minhaj
I played in high school. I played so well. I played freshman in jv. I didn't make VAR City.
[14:26]
Craig Melvin
That's okay.
[14:27]
Hasan Minhaj
I don't want to be dishonest.
[14:28]
Craig Melvin
That's all right.
[14:28]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah. But I try.
[14:30]
Craig Melvin
He was about to be. And then he thought who he's talking to? And he's like, he could probably check.
[14:36]
Hasan Minhaj
No, but everything. What's really cool about it is comedians tend to be very heady people. But if you. There's something really beautiful in having a sport or an activity that articulates what you do in real life. So you can get in your head about a lot of stuff. That's the. The difficulty of modernity and the difficulty of adulthood. I found. You can spend all this time worrying, not worrying. But what's really great, I found, with basketball is. And then later in comedy, you learn a lot about yourself. So you learn about how tall you are, how strong you are, how to position yourself in relation to someone else. Like, I sized you up as soon as you walked in. I was like, okay, he's much taller than me. I could probably get underneath there. Is that how you slip in?
[15:27]
Michelle Obama
It's. It's basically what you can get away with on the court.
[15:30]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah.
[15:31]
Michelle Obama
So how do you size me up? I'm not. I don't play. Do you size me up in the same way? I mean, you think I could, like, get around her?
[15:38]
Hasan Minhaj
Well, see, I could just. I did try to go to WNBA player once, and she did swat the shit out of me. So this is on Getty Images. I was. Yeah, yeah. I went. I went at Asia Wilson, who was
[15:48]
Michelle Obama
the MVP of the wb.
[15:49]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah, yeah, yeah. She sent my stuff into the sidelines. Yeah. All uses on ESPN to.
[15:53]
Craig Melvin
To beat my sister, all you have to do is be sweaty and then. And then try and bump into her and get out of the way.
[16:00]
Michelle Obama
I'm tall. But the thing. And we went to the All Star Game, and the biggest that I saw was like, there's so much pushing.
[16:09]
Hasan Minhaj
There's a lot of pushing. Is that what you notice?
[16:12]
Michelle Obama
That big Guy just pushed that other big guy. I would be done. It's like, once I got pushed in the back once and didn't know about it, I'd be like, I'm going.
[16:21]
Hasan Minhaj
Can I say something where I really felt like kismet and destiny was on your side? Mrs. Obama.
[16:25]
Craig Melvin
So if you keep saying Mrs. Obama, we're gonna be here all night.
[16:29]
Hasan Minhaj
Can you give me an alt? In comedy, we call her an alt. Give me an alt. I cannot call her Michelle.
[16:33]
Craig Melvin
You can call her Michelle. You can call her Mish. You can call her Mo.
[16:37]
Michelle Obama
That's my nickname.
[16:38]
Craig Melvin
Mo.
[16:38]
Michelle Obama
That's what they're gonna go with.
[16:42]
Hasan Minhaj
But so. So when you were at the game, there was a possession where the ball came into the stands.
[16:49]
Michelle Obama
Oh, yes.
[16:50]
Hasan Minhaj
And your husband.
[16:50]
Michelle Obama
Yes.
[16:51]
Hasan Minhaj
I mean, this was out of a romantic comedy.
[16:52]
Michelle Obama
It was. It was good.
[16:54]
Hasan Minhaj
Straight up.
[16:54]
Michelle Obama
Because all I saw was ball and big guy.
[16:57]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah.
[16:58]
Michelle Obama
Coming my way.
[16:58]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah.
[16:59]
Michelle Obama
And I'm. I, you know, I'm coordinated, but I was like, I, I. I'm just dumbfounded.
[17:04]
Hasan Minhaj
Right. But how many you've. How many of these highlight reels have you seen where a basketball player goes diving into the crowd, jumps on our first lady? Like, that could have happened. She could have had popcorn. She could have been drinking a soda. There's a million different ways this could have gone horribly. And then for him to just be
[17:21]
Michelle Obama
like, oh, oh, here you go, my honey.
[17:24]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah.
[17:24]
Michelle Obama
He just, like, changed.
[17:25]
Hasan Minhaj
And then Devin Booker comes in for a. It's just, like, poetic.
[17:28]
Craig Melvin
It's poetic.
[17:29]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah.
[17:30]
Craig Melvin
Yes.
[17:31]
Hasan Minhaj
So the Plinko ball of possibilities always seem to just align with, like, the most charismatic romantic possibility. Because I. I go to nick games and dudes have fallen on me. I've, like, tried to catch them. I missed the ball. So anyways, I was just. I was quite envious of them. We digress. But. But what I love about. What I loved about really loving it as a kid is you also learn how to win graciously and lose graciously.
[17:57]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[17:58]
Hasan Minhaj
You also understand that losing is a part of it. And as I pursued a career in show business, too, understanding that failure is just a part of it.
[18:09]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[18:10]
Hasan Minhaj
But. But the other part of it is also understanding that. And this is where I couldn't get to the varsity level, Coach. And I'm going to call you coach now because you've coached an elite level is what really got to me is during summer league during aau, I would miss a shot or two, and then I would start to get in my head, and I wouldn't be Focused on the next possession. And so much of life is just being like, whatever happened, that's over. You literally have the ball right now, and you have to figure out. You simultaneously have to be present, but also kind of anticipate what could happen in the future and make this possession count. And I didn't realize that, how useful that was in comedy, which is if. If you do multiple sets a night, most comedians working in New York City will do three, four, five sets a night. If you had a bad early show, let it go now. You have to read where the room is at right now. That's your next possession, and adjust accordingly. And the best comedians are able to just let that previous show go and be completely in the moment and then also be able to bomb graciously. Like, all right, I missed that free throw. I had a bad set. It happens.
[19:18]
Michelle Obama
What was your first bomb? Do you. I know you remember it, you know, and what did it feel like? And, you know, did you just go blank? Was that the kind of thing where you just forget what you're saying?
[19:31]
Craig Melvin
He was trying to forget it.
[19:32]
Hasan Minhaj
But no, no, no, I know you can't. You feel it. No, no, no. When you bomb, you feel it.
[19:38]
Michelle Obama
It stays.
[19:38]
Hasan Minhaj
It's scar. It's also because people are staring at you.
[19:41]
Michelle Obama
Yeah. Yes.
[19:42]
Hasan Minhaj
They let you know.
[19:43]
Michelle Obama
Yeah, right.
[19:44]
Hasan Minhaj
You know how there's that old saying where everyone's like, nobody's thinking about you that much when you're bombing. Everybody's thinking, go home.
[19:50]
Michelle Obama
And they talk about it.
[19:51]
Hasan Minhaj
It was really bad. It was awful. You know, they leave review.
[19:54]
Michelle Obama
It's just.
[19:55]
Hasan Minhaj
It's. It. It gets worse. You know how when they say it gets. It actually gets worse. So I do remember it was at an Irish pub. It was. It was. It actually was really humbling because my first few shows were amazing. Like, and that feeling was really incredible. And that. That feeling of finding your thing is something that I was chasing my entire life. And my first few shows went really, really great. And then I think it was my third or fourth show, it was at an Irish pub, and I had to follow somebody, and then people were leaving. So when you do some of these pub shows, people are watching a game. There's a lot of other variables out of your control. And you have to learn how to not only have your set, but you have to corral the room to pay attention to where you are. And it went very poorly. And, yeah, an older comedian told me, just get. Get on stage. Book another show as quickly as you possibly can.
[20:50]
Michelle Obama
Get back on the horse.
[20:50]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah, just get back on that way you can make that a memory ASAP.
[20:55]
Michelle Obama
How were you when you started?
[20:57]
Hasan Minhaj
I was 18. Yeah.
[20:58]
Michelle Obama
You were 18?
[20:59]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah. I was just in college. I didn't know. Again, it was through just complete happenstance. Funny enough, I got into it through my computers teacher. So I was a bit. I was quite a chattermouth. I was a bit of a nuisance in class. High school, okay? So my. My computers teacher.
[21:18]
Michelle Obama
I can't picture that. I can't picture that.
[21:20]
Hasan Minhaj
My computer's teacher, this. And this is dating me a little bit. I don't know if you guys remember.
[21:24]
Michelle Obama
It's called a computer.
[21:25]
Hasan Minhaj
It's called computers teacher.
[21:26]
Michelle Obama
Yeah, that.
[21:27]
Hasan Minhaj
That web professor is telling me. But I would. I would always have this. Like, I would be very talkative and very loud in the back of class, and I couldn't pay attention.
[21:38]
Craig Melvin
Okay.
[21:39]
Hasan Minhaj
I'd have nine different ideas going at once. And so Ms. Takeuchi had to give me, at times, detention. And it started adding up. And Ms. Takeuchi is a Japanese woman, so she knows Indian culture very well. And she goes, you know, if I keep giving you detention, I have to suspend you, which means I have to call your parents. And I was like, I mean, you could. You could hit me with a ruler, right? Like, you could. You could belt me. There's a lot of different things. You could tar and feather me in the quad. There's so many other things you could do, Mrs. T. Besides call my mom and dad. Like, calling my mom and dad is essentially like. Yeah, it's a death sentence, right?
[22:10]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[22:10]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah, for sure. It's like, send me to a Thai black site. Like, I'm never coming home.
[22:15]
Craig Melvin
Yeah.
[22:16]
Hasan Minhaj
So Ms. T said, look, there's this thing called FBLA, future business leaders of America. There's a. There's a. We go on these competitions, but there's a competition called impromptu public speaking. I know you don't do your homework, and I know you have attention issues. Impromptu public speaking allows you to make it up as you go along. I was like, oh, this is amazing.
[22:33]
Michelle Obama
Sign me up.
[22:34]
Hasan Minhaj
So Ms. T took me to these competitions and helped coach me through it. And at the competitions for impromptu public speaking, you have to take the affirmative position or the negative position on something. And I just found if you make fun of the person you're competing against, if you make fun of what's happening in the room. So, like, for example, like, I remember one of our first competition.
[22:58]
Craig Melvin
You're a bully.
[22:59]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah.
[23:01]
Michelle Obama
Wait, wait, no, that wasn't.
[23:04]
Hasan Minhaj
Is Gary Payton a bully? Absolutely. So, so, like one of the first. I was like a sophomore in high school, and. And they make you debate these things that a 15 year old shouldn't be debating. So it was like, we're, we're competing in Reading California, which is even further. Oh yeah, you're damn near in Oregon. Right, okay, so we're in Reading California. And they were like a city initiative has been, you know, has been raised, like, to like to renovate this gymnasium or not, you know, however, if we use the city's funds, it will, you know, it will take money away from whatever the library. You have to argue for the gym and you have to argue for the library. So I got up there and I was just like, I basically was like, look, me and him are 15. Like, we shouldn't have a position on this right now. Like, we both got dropped off here. We don't know like, what a budget is because our parents essentially pay for everything. Also, I think his dad's one of the judges, so that's like a clear conflict of interest. So why are we even having this debate when, like, this should be illegal, you know? And so like, the judges are. They just started laughing. And then I think I, I think I won. But what I do remember is after we finished, one of the judges came up to me and he's like, hey, man, I really hate judging these things. I actually judge these things because, like, I have my son on the weekend and I have to like, spend time with him. But you made it really, really fun and that was really awesome. And then Ms. Takeuchi told me on our drive back to Davis, she was like, you're really. You kind of have this gift of gab and it's, it's useful. And if you could not say things in class and say things here, that would be very, very beneficial.
[24:42]
Michelle Obama
What a beneficial teacher.
[24:43]
Craig Melvin
Are you still t. In touch with Mrs. T?
[24:46]
Hasan Minhaj
I. I recently got her phone number and I've been trying to get a hold of her. Yeah, so she retired. But Mrs. T is, you know, life changing. And I, I just want to let her know because the irony is she's my computer's teacher, but she's very offline. But up until that point in my life, up 15, 16, and I didn't realize this until much later, I was looking to be seen. The reason why I think I was being so talkative or trying to interject in class is I felt like I had something to say and I had something to share with the world and I felt like I wasn't heard and she saw something in me. All my other teachers thought I was too talkative. They thought I was a bit of a. Not a knucklehead, but just, he's not a great student or he can't focus. He moves around too much in his chair. And my report card would be filled with all these almost like, behavioral issues. And Ms. T was the first person that said, I think you're incredibly capable, and I think you have this skill set that I think would be really useful and helpful. And she also helped me get to national competitions, and then we lost. I lost, and I was really upset. And she also helped me lose graciously and understand how to come back from losses as well. So she really changed the trajectory of my life because I really thought great things weren't gonna be in my destiny.
[26:29]
Craig Melvin
So I was talking with a friend the other day about how the FIFA World cup is coming to the U.S. i know I'll definitely be tuning in, maybe even putting together a few watch parties, invite some people over and explain what offsides means for any newcomers. Having lived in England, I have some knowledge on what that means. But here's the thing. I actually might be out of town for some of the bigger games. If you're planning on traveling this summer, too, consider listing your home on Airbnb. Thousands of people are going to be coming to the US from all over the world, and they are going to be looking for places to stay. Think about it. The last time you went on a trip, I'm sure you wanted to stay somewhere that offered a taste of the local flavor, soak up a little atmosphere. Well, now you can offer that to world travelers, all while making a little extra cash on the side. If you've ever thought about hosting, this summer is a great time as we welcome FIFA World cup fans. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much@airbnb.com host. Well, I want to talk about. You know, we are very close to our mom.
[27:52]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah.
[27:53]
Craig Melvin
And you and your dad lived in Davis by yourselves while your mom was.
[27:59]
Hasan Minhaj
While my mom was doing at school during her residency and everything. Yeah.
[28:03]
Craig Melvin
Can you just talk to me about how you felt about that? And I don't know what I would have done if I knew nothing was wrong with my mom and she was somewhere not with me.
[28:15]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah. I think as a kid, it was. You just know what you're living through. So, basically, my dad has a job with the state. My mother is finishing her medical degree and her residency, and then my sister's being raised by Our grandparents in Delhi, so both my grandfather and my grandmother are raising her. And then when I'm eight, my grandparents were able to bring my younger sister back to the U.S. she was born in the States, but then she went over there and she was raised by them. And really what my parents were putting together was their version of the American dream. It wasn't until later that I realized, oh, this was quite different than the way a lot of people grew up. But also, as an adult, I think the thing that I really seeked and I. Maybe I'm making up for it in my life, is I want our place to be the sleepover house. Like, I want our home. And the situation for my children to be in and my nephews to be in is that they have a place that's always stable. They don't have to constantly be in transit.
[29:29]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[29:30]
Hasan Minhaj
So, I mean, the. The thing that I'm trying to change is. When you're a child of immigrants, everything that your parents have, basically, like wealth, money, or opportunity is. Is a depreciating thing.
[29:48]
Michelle Obama
Yes.
[29:48]
Hasan Minhaj
If you have money, every dollar you spend, you're actually. You're losing money. And that asset, I. E. Money is the only asset that matters. Your time is valued at zero. And so my parents spent so much time trying to build themselves in this country that they didn't get to spend a ton of quality time. And I'm trying to make up for that now, now that I'm older. All right, we're all going to. That's been the greatest joy of my career, being able to do stuff with them.
[30:17]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[30:18]
Hasan Minhaj
Even us meeting over All Star Weekend. My parents are in India right now, but otherwise I would have brought them. It's just, hey, let's just all be together. Yeah. And we don't have to worry about, you know, I don't know. This is a very common thing in immigrant households. You go to Roundtable Pizza, you stuff all the red crushed peppers into the purse, and we don't have to. We don't have to rob Domino's for Parmesan cheese.
[30:39]
Michelle Obama
Yeah. That drawer next to the silverware that has all the packets, it's like, why. Why are we doing this?
[30:45]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah.
[30:45]
Michelle Obama
No.
[30:46]
Hasan Minhaj
Mom's a Parmesan cheese drug.
[30:48]
Craig Melvin
So I read in the research that your comedic awakening came with seeing Chris Rock.
[30:56]
Hasan Minhaj
Yes. Yeah. Never scared.
[30:58]
Craig Melvin
I remember that. Yeah.
[31:00]
Hasan Minhaj
It was a brilliant special. It was an amazing special. Yeah. Yeah. A friend of mine. I was supposed to go to a college party with a friend of mine, and he was getting ready, and he Was like putting on his outfit and he's like, hey man, like go hang out with my roommate Imran. He's a bit of a square bear, but like go hang out with him. I thought that like term was so funny. Like square bear is such a funny way to describe a nerdy person. And Imran was like, he was in his room, but he was. It was an insane thing to see like a grown man do this. But he was lying on his tummy like he was like, he's my five year old son. He's lying on his stomach on the carpet and he has two laptops open and he's watching Futurama, the animated series on one laptop. And then on the other laptop he's watching Chris Rock. Never scared.
[31:42]
Craig Melvin
So boy, that's diametrically opposed.
[31:44]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah. But he was one of the first like multi screen people to be doing this in 2004. This is like way ahead of its time. We talk about what multi screen use now. But like Imran's been on that forever.
[31:53]
Michelle Obama
Right.
[31:53]
Hasan Minhaj
So I was like, what are you watching? And. And he. In, in Chris Rock was in this like, oh my God, it's one of my favorite specials ever. But he's in this maroon suit and he's performing at DAR Constitution Hall. And he's being so irreverent.
[32:07]
Craig Melvin
Yeah.
[32:08]
Hasan Minhaj
And that idea that the way he's talking about politics and society and culture and race.
[32:13]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[32:14]
Hasan Minhaj
He's being so honest and he's stalking on the stage. Like people are like applauding it.
[32:22]
Craig Melvin
Yeah.
[32:22]
Hasan Minhaj
And so the way I saw it is like as a freshman in college, I had a job at Office Max. I was selling printers at Office Max. And then I'm going to college and obviously high school. Everybody's telling me from the moment I was in kindergarten, be obedient. Like color in between the lines. And I got to see someone basically be irreverent and disobedient. That's really what comedy is of like, it is a release of on the pressure valve. And he's being like rewarded for it. He gets to say whatever he wants to say. He gets to behave the way he wants to behave. He gets to say the way we all kind of feel. And just the theater looked so big. And I was like, I wanna do that. I think Ms. Takeuchi was getting me ready to do something like this. Cause he's basically constructing an argument in a funny way. So we were already kind of doing that in forensics.
[33:19]
Michelle Obama
But there's also something about you that is very committed to the Authentic truth of things. Right.
[33:28]
Hasan Minhaj
Or just, like, the feeling of it. And I remember even. And the thing of wanting to say what it feels like. I remember even in, like, third grade, when people are like, when did you know you wanted to be a comedian? I had this teacher. This is in the years is 1993. So diet soda is a huge deal. And my teacher, Ms. Anderson, is in the third, fourth combination class. She would crush a 12 pack of diet Pepsis over the course of the day.
[33:54]
Michelle Obama
So you just watch it.
[33:55]
Hasan Minhaj
And I'm like, watching her just crush a dozen cakes.
[33:59]
Michelle Obama
Yeah. Yeah.
[34:00]
Hasan Minhaj
And in the early 90s, there was this big thing with, like, kids can't drink soda. Only adults can drink soda. And I remember asking, like, miss. And as a joke once, I was like. I was like, I know you had 11. 11 sodas. Can I get the 12? And she was like, hasan, like, cut it out or whatever. She barked at me. She said something, and she was like, sit down. Like, no. And I was like, okay, fine. I remember then that night, my dad loved watching 60 Minutes. And it was like this news package of, like, aspartame. It may be in your soda, but it also may be giving you cancer. You know? And then I remember being in class the next day, and I was like, Ms. Anderson. I was, Ms. Anderson, can I get. I know you had 11 diet Pepsis. Can I get the 12th? And she's like, hasan, will you cut it out, please? And I was like, you're totally right, Ms. Anderson. I think adults should be the only people getting cancer.
[34:54]
Craig Melvin
Oh.
[34:55]
Hasan Minhaj
And she sent me to the principal's office.
[34:57]
Michelle Obama
I bet you she was like, what's happening?
[34:59]
Hasan Minhaj
She said was inappropriate, and it was so wrong. But I felt like what I did say was wrong, and it was super disrespectful. And I hope Ms. Anderson didn't get cancer, but.
[35:10]
Michelle Obama
But she's working on it.
[35:11]
Hasan Minhaj
But she's working on it hard. But I was. I was always searching for that place to be articulate how I really feel.
[35:21]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[35:22]
Hasan Minhaj
And that was what comedy was for me. It finally gave me a place to take a lot of these thoughts that are running around in my head, and it gave me a productive channel to put them in.
[35:32]
Craig Melvin
So once you started, like, this is gonna be my career. I'm off to LA or wherever you go. Talk about how hard it was to make it and what helped you get through that.
[35:45]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah. So, yeah, it is. Trying to make it in show business is a very strange, elusive thing, because. What is it?
[35:56]
Craig Melvin
What.
[35:56]
Hasan Minhaj
How do you even.
[35:57]
Craig Melvin
Yeah.
[35:57]
Hasan Minhaj
How do you even define that? So if you're a nightclub comedian, I really kind of just broke it down into monkey bars. And this is where the. Playing sports and actually failing at sports, quite frankly.
[36:06]
Michelle Obama
And also the. Go figure it out.
[36:08]
Hasan Minhaj
Go figure it out. Yeah. Or like, what is the next thing that you'd like to do? Okay, so you. You can do 10 minutes on stage. All right, now you want to get to 30 minutes, and then eventually want to be a headliner. You want to tour. You want to do 60 minutes and headline a club. All right, well, the first thing you got to do is you got to be an opening act. You gotta be really good at becoming an opening. So you need to figure out 15 killer minutes that you can do in front of any. You can do it in front of Mike Epps, you can do it in front of Gabriel Iglesias. You can play any room. You can play a white room, you can play a black room, you can play a casino. And then you have to move to a city where there's a ton of clubs. So then I move to San Francisco, you know, and I get a day job, and I'm just pursuing. And I just took it one monkey bar at a time. And what I really loved about it, and I've come to now I've been doing comedy 20 plus years, but it really did save my life because the whole art form in and of itself is completely made up. Comedians, if you think about. If you want to be a working comedian, we're. We're below magicians, but we're above clowns. You know, like, if you can do magic, I'm very impressed. Like, I'm like, I tip my hat to that David Copperfield. If you're a clown, I have zero respect for you. Like, I think. I think you're terrifying. I think you are. You are using people's fear against them. Like, I think you're possibly demonic and. Or the Chupacabra. Like, you are participating in the dark arts in some way, and I don't. And if there are any clowns watching, I have zero respect for you. Well, magicians, I tip my hat and I stand below you, sir.
[37:38]
Craig Melvin
This room knows what I'm about to ask.
[37:40]
Michelle Obama
Oh, my God.
[37:41]
Craig Melvin
Just ask me, where do ventriloquists fall?
[37:44]
Michelle Obama
Oh, my God.
[37:49]
Hasan Minhaj
Ventriloquists are technically stage performers. I'll give them that. The fact that they don't do face makeup or try to scare you through the paint on the face, I would consider them to be on. On par with comedians. Yeah, Working Comedians slightly below us, though.
[38:05]
Craig Melvin
Yeah, I feel you. He won below. Yeah, yeah.
[38:09]
Hasan Minhaj
They're like the ugly cousin of a comedian.
[38:10]
Craig Melvin
But thank you.
[38:13]
Hasan Minhaj
So actually, let me just. In all seriousness.
[38:15]
Craig Melvin
Yes.
[38:16]
Hasan Minhaj
In San Francisco, there was a laundromat called the Brainwash Cafe, which is literally a laundromat where people are doing their laundry. But they did an open mic there. And so when you go to the open mic, you would have this, like, Indian Muslim kid, me. Then you would have a drag queen. You might have a ventriloquist. You might have someone literally clowning on stage. Someone doing, like, a super blue. Ali Wong would do this really blue material. Then W. Kamau Bell would come on and do this very, like, political material. Then I would come on and do this like, I live at home material. And then people were just doing their laundry. They're folding laundry. But what you. You learn how to get an audience's attention, keep their attention, but you also learn this whole thing is made up.
[39:02]
Michelle Obama
Yeah, this.
[39:03]
Hasan Minhaj
This whole thing. It's not even a real thing. We essentially perform in basements, bars or laundromats. We create a show out of nothing and then we go away. We're these traveling kind of entertainment vagabonds, essentially. And it really did prepare me then for what showbiz is and was. You know, all these things that you're auditioning for are, you know, what is the Tonight Show? What is. You know, these things are like these sandcastles that exist, but then they go away.
[39:32]
Michelle Obama
I think you're being a bit cynical about it. Maybe you're not. Well, because I do. I think it's the sort of, the most clever form of op ed, you know, storytelling, cultural, which is what we are grounded in. I mean, which is why I think people are drawn to it, because it's like. I think comedians are fascinating and brilliant weaving together. And I don't think it's made up. I think it is a series of, let me talk about life in whatever form that I wanna talk about it in a way, because if you were gonna say, I'm gonna stand in front of you and lecture you about my thoughts, no one would hang in there. You know, politicians barely get an audience. Right. But a comedian can weave together a story and like you said with Chris Rock, can turn it into, now you're teaching and now you're educating, and people remember it and they'll come back to it.
[40:28]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah, I agree with you. But I also. I think what I was trying to get at is what it really means to me. That was really beautiful is that all of the answers that you're looking for exist within you. You're the source material for everything. So you are the writer, the director, the producer, the head coach. You're everything, the promoter. And it is a really beautiful thing that calls for your own personal agency. And so that's what I think is really powerful about it.
[41:02]
Michelle Obama
Yeah. What, is it healed in you so far? And maybe healed is too strong of a word, but when you say that, you know, the art form is about what you. What the comedian gets out of it.
[41:24]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah.
[41:25]
Michelle Obama
What. What have you found out about yourself in this process?
[41:30]
Hasan Minhaj
I think growing up Indian American, growing up Muslim, you're usually one of the few people in the room.
[41:39]
Michelle Obama
Yes.
[41:40]
Hasan Minhaj
And the great black comedians and actors, musicians, the Muhammad Ali's, the Dick Gregory's, what they showed me, the Dave Chappelles, is through the gift of oration, through the gift of using your words and language, you can navigate any room and you have something to say that matters. And you can add your chapter to the book of what that genre is. So growing up in school, I just didn't see myself in popular culture. I didn't see myself in sports. I just didn't see myself there. But. And some people could see that as a weakness, but I was like, maybe this could be my strength. Because so much about being a unique act on stage, what do you have to say? And being different is probably the most powerful thing you could be if you don't want to be an act that's similar to another act.
[42:36]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[42:37]
Hasan Minhaj
And so these things that you could see as limitations might be the biggest breakthrough that you have. So it showed me in the work that I do now and the specials that I put out, oh, this chapter is worth adding to the canon that is American standup comedy. Or this film that you're working on is worth adding to. So this. I'm working on this film right now with Netflix about the competitive world of collegiate Bollywood dance, which is like a big. It's like a very competitive thing at colleges.
[43:04]
Craig Melvin
Collegiate.
[43:05]
Hasan Minhaj
Collegiate Bollywood dance. It's very special.
[43:08]
Craig Melvin
I didn't know there was such a thing.
[43:10]
Hasan Minhaj
It's a real thing. It's the biggest world you've never heard of, Greg.
[43:13]
Michelle Obama
Yeah, but we're gonna know people are
[43:15]
Hasan Minhaj
very passionate about it. So there's these kids that are like pre pharmacy majors, but they're like dancing at night. And the vibes and the love and the intensity is real.
[43:25]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[43:26]
Hasan Minhaj
But I was shocked that this thing that I participated in in college was never added. To the canon of American musicals. So when you think of the great American musicals, Chicago and La La Land, I mean, there's a Singing in the Rain, there's a long history, but our culture has this deep history with magical realism and song and dance. And there's generations of kids that have basically grown up dance. There's video footage of all of every Indian kid, you know, dancing as a child for some reason.
[43:56]
Craig Melvin
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[43:57]
Hasan Minhaj
And to me, this is like a love letter to the culture. But if I didn't grow up this way, I would have never been able to write this movie and share it with the world. So we're, you know, we're in post production on it, and I'm sitting in the edit, and I think about all the things that have happened to me in my life. It is only because of my lived experience. It is only because of how often I went back and forth between America and Delhi and India. It's only through my immersion as this bridge between both American culture, totally understanding American popular culture, and understanding Bollywood culture, that I'm able to talk about this this way as this kind of like, third culture kid. And maybe this thing can be a bridge to help again add my chapter to what the American musical can be.
[44:46]
Michelle Obama
How have you felt the growth, change, lack of growth in this country when it comes to the immigrant community experience? I know that's a lot of your standup, but when you were coming up, growing up in Davis, that great town Sacramento, have you felt any growth in this country in terms of how immigrants are viewed, seen, welcomed? What has that experience been like for you?
[45:25]
Hasan Minhaj
I mean, the weirdest thing for me is that. And black Americans have been talking about this for a long time, is that there's the America that it presents itself to be, and then what America is. And so when my dad came in the 80s, there was this word that was talked about very proudly when it comes to the United States of America. It's the M word. It's merit. This is a country that values merit. And what I'm seeing, what has happened and the actions that the country has now taken in regards to the rollback of civil liberties, civil rights, African American history, ice, the illegal seizure and deportations of particular people of melanin, is that merit only matters for a particular type of American.
[46:23]
Michelle Obama
Yes.
[46:23]
Hasan Minhaj
I call it white valedictorian energy. I was told, just be the best and you get to be the valedictorian.
[46:29]
Michelle Obama
That's right.
[46:30]
Hasan Minhaj
But what America is basically saying is, we got to have a white valedictorian.
[46:34]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[46:34]
Hasan Minhaj
So I don't care if there's an Indian kid, a Chinese kid, a Korean kid, a Vietnamese kid, a black kid. No, no, no. We're going to go down the list until we get to a white validator. So excellence and being an American looks and feels a particular way. And that's very different than what the country was that my dad came to, which was, it doesn't matter what language you speak. We're here to. To compete in the Olympics of excellence and of merit.
[46:58]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[46:59]
Hasan Minhaj
And now at age 40, I've gotten to see, over the course of many different presidents. Oh, it hasn't always been this way. Where do we go from here? I mean, this is where I would call. I want to call you Mrs. Obama. Where do you think we go from?
[47:17]
Michelle Obama
You know, my awakening to that truth came when I went to Princeton. Right. Because here I am, this kid. Now, my brother had gone there. I'm a straight A student, do well in class from a public school. You know, the mystique of what Princeton is and how great the kids are. So I don't test well, but I have great grades. I get in, but I get in feeling like an affirmative action came. Like somehow I'm, you know, on merit alone, my merit alone, I didn't get in. That's sort of how you sort of feel. And then you get to campus and you realize, oh, my God, there are a whole bunch of different forms of affirmative action that are not legacy admission, all this legacy. You know, I start realizing, oh, you're the granddaughter of the person whose dorm you're in. Oh, you're an athlete, you're a football player, you're a jock, but they need you on the team. So you're here. And I started, which. Which kind of was empowering to me because I came in feeling inferior, but I realized, oh, you were just making my otherness feel less than when there are all kinds of ways that kids get in, you know?
[48:34]
Hasan Minhaj
Right.
[48:35]
Michelle Obama
But I found that that is a powerful thing just to know and understand. And I. So in answer to your question, I think we're still growing as a country. We're very young and adolescent in many ways. And a lot of the mistakes that we're making, the things that we do, they feel very juvenile. Right. It feels like it's just not mature. But we're not yet really a mature country. We're a young country. And just like in comedy, when you're young, you've got to fail. You got to try out some theories and fail. And we've grown up in the winning part. This is what Barack says, sort of that hopefulness thing of his that says there are a lot of dips and valleys in the growth of this country. And we've been on this clear trajectory through most of the. Our adult life where things were increasingly getting better, which is why a lot of immigrants came over, you know, because they. They saw the America that was.
[49:43]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah. What was possible.
[49:44]
Michelle Obama
What was possible. And now we're in a dip, you
[49:48]
Hasan Minhaj
know, what did you tell your kids? Like, what should I. My children are still so young, and I. And I'm navigating this new chapter of parenthood. Yeah, you got to meet my kids. I'm still in the put your shoes on phase of. Get your shoes on, man.
[49:59]
Michelle Obama
Yeah, yeah.
[50:00]
Hasan Minhaj
I mean, that's right.
[50:01]
Michelle Obama
Can you.
[50:02]
Hasan Minhaj
But there's, there's a. There's an innocence to them.
[50:04]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[50:05]
Hasan Minhaj
The biggest thing when they met you, Mrs. Obama, was. I was just like, please look her in the eyes, shake her hand. You know, you saw my daughter, she had her braids. She was really excited to meet you in her dress. And that's my goal of, like, do they have good decorum? Are they super polite? But they still have this innocence. And I don't know how I'm going to cross. I don't know how I'm going to teach them or cross the path of. I haven't told them about the fact that they may be perceived as different in this country or other. In this country. How did you navigate.
[50:35]
Michelle Obama
What did your father tell you?
[50:41]
Hasan Minhaj
Don't talk about politics and don't tell people you're Muslim. But I mean, I said, I mean, you named me Hasan. I mean, it's really hard.
[50:48]
Michelle Obama
It's.
[50:48]
Craig Melvin
Hey, dude.
[50:49]
Hasan Minhaj
I mean, I'm sure, you know, your husband had to go through that with his middle name. I mean, it's pretty. It's there, you know, it's pretty.
[50:53]
Michelle Obama
Laughing. Absolutely.
[50:54]
Hasan Minhaj
I was into it. I loved having a Muslim president, but Fox News did it, but I loved it.
[51:00]
Michelle Obama
I believe you. Tell your kids the truth.
[51:02]
Craig Melvin
The truth? Yeah.
[51:03]
Michelle Obama
You know, about.
[51:04]
Hasan Minhaj
Is there an age, though?
[51:06]
Michelle Obama
No.
[51:06]
Craig Melvin
I think what you will find is the time will come and you will decide if this is the right time or the wrong time. And it's usually, I don't think it's the same for everyone, but for us, and we've got four kids, middle school, when kids start to sort of separate, that's when they come home with questions. And fortunately for our family, we were always in sports, so I think sports helps you Bridge that discussion and you could have a discussion about what's happening on the field, on the court, and sort of help that turn into what's going on off the court. Your kids will. You'll know when your kids are ready for the discussion.
[52:11]
Hasan Minhaj
So I talked about this with my wife. So my daughter, who you met, she recently asked me a few months ago, can we get married? And I was like, I don't know if mommy would be okay with that. I mean, I love you, but I don't know if we can. We can get married. But I appreciate you asking if we can go married.
[52:25]
Michelle Obama
I'm glad if Mommy something happens to her. I got you.
[52:30]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah. So I'm navigating that daddies can love you so much, but I don't think we should get married. But I actually love you to infinity and more. My son tells my. My wife. She goes. He goes, I love you all the way to Allah and back. And I was like, that's pretty cool, too.
[52:48]
Michelle Obama
Yeah. Yeah.
[52:48]
Hasan Minhaj
Like, to God and back.
[52:49]
Michelle Obama
It's really cool.
[52:51]
Hasan Minhaj
So I don't know how to hard pivot from that to racism. Yeah, that's a hard pivot.
[52:55]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[52:58]
Craig Melvin
I would start with telling her, you can't marry me.
[53:01]
Michelle Obama
Yeah, it's like I said that.
[53:03]
Hasan Minhaj
I said, I love you, but I can't get married. It's like, but why not? Right? That's a whole nother thing.
[53:07]
Craig Melvin
Thank you.
[53:09]
Michelle Obama
You can tell it just like you. But.
[53:10]
Hasan Minhaj
But I was. I was talking to Bina about this and basically what's really beautiful is, is their hope and their optimism right now is. Is infinite. And I want them to operate from that idea of possibility and abundance and belief in yourself. The thing that I have to teach them is in regards to. I'm going to use, like, they talk about this in, in business. When one is starting a business or taking a loan is tail risk. And what is the worst case scenario, and black Americans have known this for a long time, is that when things go south, there is. The floor is lower than you could ever imagine. They don't play with the kid gloves with you. There is no real benefit of the doubt. If you. If something goes missing in the class or something bad happens or somebody acts up, you're going to be looked at a particular way and you're gonna be treated. There's no yellow cards. They're gonna give you the red card. I haven't had that conversation with them about tail risk of that. Hey, when the, when they pull the rug out underneath you, you have no idea how deep it can go. And I don't want to sugarcoat that. For them, it is real. And they're my children. I love them more than anything, but I haven't prepared myself to have that combo with them yet.
[54:24]
Craig Melvin
I'm just thinking back. I've got three boys and one girl. And I probably had the discussion with the boys sooner. And for the boys, it's. You have to watch everything. That was the way I started. I start the discussion. Everything, absolutely everything's important. And then from there, we talk about the differences and the people in their class. Because we've always been in a school where we're the only people of color or we're the diversity. And to your point about when things go bad, they're gonna go really bad. I'd rather. I've always rather err on the side of caution, that they know the potential downfalls, the potential risk, rather than not being afraid to hurt their ability to have hope. Because kids are more. I think kids are more resilient than we give them credit for.
[55:30]
Michelle Obama
But kids will also let you know what they, you know, when they need to know. The more they start interacting with other kids, it's like, that's why. It's like staying close to your kids, being aware, you know, knowing what's happening in class, making sure that they feel comfortable coming home and telling you about something the teacher said or a friend said. You know, things will start to come up, right? Especially in this day and age where the tone is so blatant. You know, sadly, I think your kids are probably gonna hear and feel more than maybe even you did coming up. Right? Because we've kind of unlocked that dirty part of the American way. Right? There isn't one size fits all, you know, as you find when you. When you are one of. Only when you are not the majority culture, it is a constant, you know, responsibility to be vigilant about what is going on in the world when it comes to your kids. Because I agree with Craig, how we were raised is it's better to know what's coming and start getting prepared for it. And I don't think that that drowns out their hope, but I think it's better for them to be a little like Craig, a little cautious, but prepared. How have you enjoyed parenthood? Your kids are. They're beautiful. Let me just say this. They are polite, they are outgoing. They didn't look me in the eye because they were down by my knees, but they looked me straight in the knees.
[57:03]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah, they looked you right in the Knees. Yeah, they really did.
[57:05]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[57:06]
Hasan Minhaj
And they were super excited. And my son was wearing a tan suit in honor of your husband.
[57:10]
Michelle Obama
Oh, yeah.
[57:11]
Hasan Minhaj
He really wanted to stir the controversy. Yeah. He was wearing tan suits.
[57:16]
Michelle Obama
On the suede loafers.
[57:18]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah, the suede.
[57:19]
Michelle Obama
I mean, with no socks.
[57:21]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah, with no socks. Yeah. That I was just very elegant. Very. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very Loro piano. You know, we got it from Marshalls, though. I'm not trying to brat the Marshalls here in Studio City. Yeah. It's the things that sometimes break my heart is when I have to go.
[57:38]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[57:38]
Hasan Minhaj
So, like, I was in the edit on something, and I'm sliding in these. It's like an insert shot of someone's hand clicking something. My son walked in and he was like, dad, what are you doing? And I was like, yeah, what. What am I doing? Like, what am I doing? He wants to play with me. I'm like, what? I'm going through a bin of insert shots. Like, what am I doing? So those are the tough parts where I know they just want to spend time with me, and I'm so glad that they want to spend time. They still like mommy more, but they really do want to spend time with me, and I love spending time with them. The thing that I. The software update that I'm trying to do with them is that I didn't necessarily get from my parents. And it's very common in kind of strict desi culture, which is, you gotta audition for this love. Let's just think it's unconditional. Like, now there's a condition. The condition is that you're smart and you're capable, and the condition is I got to be able to show you off in front of other people because I don't have a nice car and I don't have a nice watch, but I do have a really smart daughter. And you're my flex.
[58:45]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[58:45]
Hasan Minhaj
So I can't have you be weak because you're my flex. And so this desire to, like.
[58:52]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[58:53]
Hasan Minhaj
You know, my dad is going to watch this interview and analyze it. Oh, you cut. You somehow could you cut off Mrs. Obama? So unlikable. This is wrong, all this. He's going to analyze the game. Yeah.
[59:05]
Craig Melvin
Yeah.
[59:05]
Hasan Minhaj
And I'm his flex.
[59:06]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[59:07]
Hasan Minhaj
But the thing that I was always looking for was, you know, dad, do you know what my favorite color is? Do you know my favorite basketball team? Do you know, do you see me? Yeah, I see my kids.
[59:19]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[59:20]
Hasan Minhaj
And I just want to let them know that I see the things that they're interested in my son is really into maps and dinosaurs right now. My daughter is like really into crocheting and K pop demon hunters. Like somehow she's simultaneously 88 and yeah,
[59:32]
Michelle Obama
she missed 7 year old something, some character.
[59:34]
Hasan Minhaj
And I'm like, yeah, yeah, right. I thought you would have either picked up the poet, the famous poet.
[59:41]
Michelle Obama
Just confused. I was totally confused.
[59:45]
Hasan Minhaj
So, yeah, I see them for what they, who they are and what they and. But also their temperament. Like with my daughter, we can totally blow the whistle and be like, you gotta run line drills. Like she get. She loves the, she loves the. Almost the confrontation. She's got that dog in her. And my son is a little bit more gentle. You gotta walk him through it.
[60:11]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[60:13]
Hasan Minhaj
So I want them to. That's where I'm trying to spend as much time with them as I can. But I also want them to know like, daddy loves you regardless. I don't know if that was quite true with me.
[60:23]
Michelle Obama
Yeah, well, that's the 2.0 of life. And when we talk about how do you feel about the country? There are versions of the country that happen, right. And the new version doesn't make the old one bad. It's necessary for growth. And I think we're in just a janky version, right?
[60:45]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah, janky's right.
[60:46]
Michelle Obama
It's a janky version right now.
[60:48]
Hasan Minhaj
May I curse Mrs. Obama?
[60:49]
Michelle Obama
You may, yeah.
[60:50]
Hasan Minhaj
Shit is jank right now. Yeah, super jank.
[60:53]
Michelle Obama
Yes.
[60:53]
Craig Melvin
Your dad's not gonna be happy.
[60:55]
Hasan Minhaj
He's not gonna be happy with that. But I couldn't find. I couldn't find another, like, adjective. I couldn't find another similar metaphor here.
[61:01]
Michelle Obama
But with each, you know, with each version, we learn something about ourselves as a country. And you know, I'm. Right now I'm, I'm kind of digging the way folks are beginning to respond. Right. I mean, Minnesota, powerful stuff. I mean, it was a powerful reminder of what a community of people can do and are willing to do to protect one another. You know, when you're not so janky, you don't have to prove that. Right. And so we haven't been this janky for a while. And I think our muscle of understanding our truth just got a little lax. We started taking things for granted. Right. But as you were becoming a better version of a father, you know, all respect to your dad, we already said he did what he had to do. We improve upon that with the learning. That doesn't make what you had bad. It just means that you're noting it and you're making the necessary Changes. I think that's what I'm hoping will happen in this country. You are becoming a better, better version through the stuff that you didn't get, you know, I mean, you know, and how are, how are your parents now? What do they make of. Of your life and what you've become? Have you become the flex that they. They so desperately wanted?
[62:27]
Craig Melvin
They.
[62:28]
Hasan Minhaj
I. I've been told in private, they're very proud.
[62:31]
Michelle Obama
Okay?
[62:32]
Hasan Minhaj
That's when I'm not there. They can't even admit it. Yeah.
[62:37]
Craig Melvin
Poor kid.
[62:38]
Hasan Minhaj
So, like, all like, my da boys that I grew up with, they'll be like, dude, you always do this in your act where you talk about, like, your dad dunking on you. He's really proud of you. He talks about you. And I'm like, but that's in private. He never told me this. You know, like, Mufasa's out here telling everybody else about how proud he is of Simba. But I'm in the elephant graveyard being like, dad, my dad doesn't like me, you know? And like, Zazu has to come and be like, your dad likes you. And I'm like, shut up, Zazu. So, yeah, they are really proud. And bringing them to this stuff means. It means a lot to them. So that's really beautiful. The parts that are tough for me are the speed bumps that you hit in your career and watching your parents worry. That's the only thing that breaks my heart is that anytime I've gone through, oh, that gig didn't go my way, or that review of my show went poorly, they really. The Internet in Boomers is not a good combination.
[63:42]
Michelle Obama
Yeah, they shouldn't be.
[63:43]
Craig Melvin
Because they shouldn't.
[63:43]
Hasan Minhaj
Because they.
[63:44]
Michelle Obama
Okay, get parent. Hey, stop. Get off. Social media. Just don't let them. Can you take it away from them?
[63:52]
Hasan Minhaj
So the problem is with 75 year olds and 5 year olds, social media is really. It's a thing ruining their brains, right? It is.
[64:00]
Michelle Obama
Yes, it is.
[64:01]
Craig Melvin
How are they as grandparents?
[64:02]
Hasan Minhaj
Oh, they're like, totally different.
[64:06]
Michelle Obama
Who are these people? Yes.
[64:08]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah. Who are these people?
[64:09]
Michelle Obama
Yeah, who are they? My mom was like that, why are you so strict? I was like, these are your rules.
[64:15]
Hasan Minhaj
Like, it's.
[64:15]
Michelle Obama
These are the exact rules. You told me not to jump on the couch. They go to. They. When they were little, they go to her house and tear up the couch. The forts they cushions everywhere. My mom would see sleep on the couch and let the girl sleep in her bed because there was a TV in there.
[64:30]
Hasan Minhaj
So what is it?
[64:31]
Michelle Obama
I don't know.
[64:32]
Hasan Minhaj
I don't Is there a term for this?
[64:34]
Michelle Obama
We should.
[64:36]
Craig Melvin
We could probably come up with one because it is, it is consistent across cultures.
[64:42]
Michelle Obama
Grandparent dystopia. I don't know what.
[64:46]
Hasan Minhaj
Because they become these like spiritual, like roomy poets. Like, of course, children. This is what children do. Who are we but grandparents here to channel the energies of the youth. Be gentle with them, for they are gentle. I'm like, who is this person?
[65:06]
Craig Melvin
Yeah, it's.
[65:08]
Hasan Minhaj
You would literally monitor my calls with girls. Like you were the nsa and be like, you know, infinite money. They have infinite. Yeah, we're at Target. Just like, oh, you want that Lego? Sure. I'm like, where is this coming from? Yeah, who are these people? But you know, the good, the good thing though is that fortunately they're still, they're still alive.
[65:30]
Michelle Obama
Yeah. And, and all the, the kids have. All their grandparents have.
[65:35]
Hasan Minhaj
All their grandparents. But I, I got them. I got the chance for them to meet one of their great grandparents.
[65:40]
Michelle Obama
Oh, that's.
[65:41]
Hasan Minhaj
Which was like a promise that I made to my father in law, my mother in law, that if, if we get married, I will, I will have your grandchildren meet your parents, you know, and that was something that I was like super proud of. I don't know if they fully understand it yet, but I would love for them to, when they're of the right age, for them to understand the world that their grandparents and their great grandparents lived in. Pre partition India, the freedom of India, then their arrival in America and to how we got here. I think that would be just a very meaningful thing for them.
[66:18]
Michelle Obama
Absolutely, absolutely.
[66:19]
Hasan Minhaj
That I didn't, I didn't fully get as a child.
[66:22]
Michelle Obama
Yeah, yeah.
[66:23]
Hasan Minhaj
But understanding it. And shout out to Dr. Henry Louis Gates for the work that he's doing because it gives your life meaning. You're able to even. I was able to just see my own life with a level of grace and understanding. Like, isn't it a miracle that this, this happened? And isn't it a miracle that you're related to such amazing people?
[66:42]
Michelle Obama
And hey, that's the hope. Right? That's where they get the hope in a janky time.
[66:48]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah.
[66:48]
Michelle Obama
Right. Because that's. And it's important and that's true and it's their history and that's the hopeful. You point to them and you make sure they know this is the hope. Because look at where your grandparents were and your great grandparents. So that arc of today, as janky as it is, it's still forward moving.
[67:12]
Hasan Minhaj
I think we found the title for this episode, by the way.
[67:13]
Michelle Obama
It's janky.
[67:14]
Craig Melvin
Janky.
[67:15]
Michelle Obama
So we do try to do some good here on IMO by taking a listener question. That's how we started. We started with, so let's give some advice out to the people. And you as a guest. We gave you a lot of advice today.
[67:28]
Hasan Minhaj
Yeah.
[67:28]
Michelle Obama
Yeah. So now it's your turn to give back to our listener.
[67:31]
Hasan Minhaj
All right, let's take it. Let's take it.
[67:33]
Michelle Obama
Who do we have?
[67:34]
Craig Melvin
We have Marcel from Honolulu.
[67:36]
Michelle Obama
Okay. Oh.
[67:38]
Craig Melvin
I'm an immigrant and LGBTQ person who has spent much of my life adapting, moving across countries, shifting careers, and learning how to survive within systems that were not designed by. With people like me in mind. Adaptation has helped me stay alive, build skills, and remain hopeful. Sometimes it also feels like I've learned to bend more than how to belong. How do you tell the difference between healthy adaptation that helps you grow and over adaptation that slowly pulls you away from yourself? Thank you.
[68:10]
Michelle Obama
That's a good, good question.
[68:12]
Hasan Minhaj
Well, I mean, I think we've all navigated rooms where we might be the only one or we feel like an outsider. Do you want to share how you would navigate that?
[68:29]
Michelle Obama
I'm trying to be completely honest. I don't think that I have ever shown up in a way that I didn't feel good about. I've never let my otherness make me adapt so much that I don't feel like I see myself. So I'm trying to relate to that and relate to people who are made to feel that insecure about themselves, that they are becoming something that they aren't. And I would imagine that in this day and age of social media, where you're, you know, all there. There are all these signs of this is who you should be. This is who you should compare yourself to. I would imagine that maybe this generation has a tougher time maybe than I did. But I think at some level, when you're young, you are adapting to a whole bunch of stuff that you don't have control over. You know, you gotta keep your job. You've gotta listen to your parents. You don't.
[69:38]
Hasan Minhaj
You're new at school.
[69:38]
Michelle Obama
You're new at school.
[69:39]
Hasan Minhaj
You're new in the class. You're trying to make friends.
[69:41]
Michelle Obama
Right? You're trying to make.
[69:43]
Hasan Minhaj
For me. I found it. There's two things that I was thinking about when I heard the question, which is I remember being in class and quickly trying to find your group, and I thought it was a weakness to try to find, Oh, I like the shoes that you're wearing, or you're into this. I'm into that, too. I noticed that. Is that a Mickey Mouse watch? I really like you. Try to find these moments of. Of connection. And you may. You may be changing a little bit about yourself to try to please others, but you could also see it as a strength, Meaning I can go into any situation and through my interests, through my hobbies, through what I know about the world, I can find a way to talk to anybody. Even for me, touring in any city that I land in, from Ames, Iowa, St. Louis, Missouri, and Bozeman, Montana, Albuquerque, New Mexico. It doesn't matter where I land. I can always talk to the bar back or the cab driver or the Uber, and they will tell you what's going on in the city or the town. And there will always be this connective tissue. And that's not always a bad thing to be like, hey, how are things here in Albuquerque right now? What's going on with the mayor? What's happening with this? You're.
[71:03]
Michelle Obama
You're.
[71:03]
Hasan Minhaj
You're just trying to find common ground. And I think that's. That's a cool. That's a strength to be able to go into any playground of life. And. And the two things I found the most is everybody. Everybody says the rent is too damn high, and.
[71:15]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[71:15]
Hasan Minhaj
And gas is way too much.
[71:17]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[71:18]
Hasan Minhaj
But if somebody has an opinion about, you know, the Yankees. Yeah. Something's. Something is happening in sports or in culture that you can just. You can start chatting about and find a way to have common ground. But. But in regards to your identity, sometimes there's this feeling, and I was having a conversation with Riz Ahmed about this, who's an incredible British Pakistani actor. He said, sometimes you'll go into the room thinking that you can change the room. He went to Oxford. British. You're talking about the most elite of elite institutions. But sometimes the room changes you. You don't change the room, but the room changes you. And I think the thing that. That is most important is to have the. The moral clarity and personal conviction that, hey, just no matter what.
[72:02]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[72:03]
Hasan Minhaj
Like, this is who I am. So I'm willing to get into it with you about Yankees, Red Sox, or, you know, Kings versus Lakers. But there's just certain things in my personal convictions. These are things I just don't do.
[72:15]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[72:16]
Hasan Minhaj
You know?
[72:16]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[72:17]
Hasan Minhaj
And know that. That, like, that's your line.
[72:20]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[72:20]
Hasan Minhaj
And don't change it for anybody.
[72:21]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[72:23]
Craig Melvin
Well, thanks, Hasan.
[72:25]
Hasan Minhaj
Thanks.
[72:26]
Craig Melvin
Appreciate it. We appreciate it.
[72:28]
Hasan Minhaj
Thanks for having me. That was a lovely conversation.
[72:29]
Michelle Obama
Yeah, it's good stuff. Good stuff. So you've got this Netflix special. Is it a special or is it a series?
[72:37]
Hasan Minhaj
I have a series called Hasan Minaj Doesn't Know, which is a great interview podcast series. And then I have a. I'm on tour right now with the Hassan Hates Ronnie. Ronnie Hates Hassan. Hatred is the answer. Pettiness over peace. We're on tour right now. Me and my arch nemesis.
[72:54]
Michelle Obama
Are we gonna get that televised? Is it. We're working on it.
[72:57]
Hasan Minhaj
I can't tell you just yet, but, yes, the fight will be coming to you.
[73:02]
Michelle Obama
Nice.
[73:03]
Hasan Minhaj
Very soon. And then, yeah, I'm working on this Bollywood dance movie called Best of the Best. That's great. Which will be coming out very soon.
[73:11]
Michelle Obama
So is that an episodic?
[73:13]
Hasan Minhaj
It's a movie.
[73:14]
Michelle Obama
It's a movie.
[73:15]
Craig Melvin
Yeah.
[73:15]
Michelle Obama
Okay.
[73:16]
Hasan Minhaj
So I'm very excited about that.
[73:17]
Michelle Obama
Okay.
[73:17]
Hasan Minhaj
And again, it's really beautiful to also be at the. At this chapter of my career where I can see all this really great young talent emerge and make something for them, and that's been really, really enriching and beautiful.
[73:32]
Michelle Obama
Well, I enjoy your comedy. I really do. You were smart. You were a beautiful storyteller.
[73:40]
Hasan Minhaj
Oh, thank you.
[73:40]
Michelle Obama
And not every standup comedian can take you on that journey and land you safely in a way. And it takes a level of vulnerability to, you know, let us inside your. Your life. It's. It's really, you know, it's. It's a gift.
[73:58]
Hasan Minhaj
You had me at smart. I'm just gonna take it. Yeah, you're Smart's really great.
[74:02]
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
[74:02]
Craig Melvin
Yeah, you're funny. You're funny.
[74:06]
Hasan Minhaj
You guys, this is very sweet. We gotta get out right now. You have to know when to end the set. We have to end right now. We got smart and funny. You'll get out.
[74:12]
Craig Melvin
That's my time.
[74:12]
Hasan Minhaj
Tip your barn waste out. Thank you guys so much. Thank you so much for taking the time so much.
[74:19]
Craig Melvin
Thanks, man.
[74:19]
Hasan Minhaj
Appreciate you. Appreciate you. Appreciate you. Thank you.