Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen"

Episode Information:

• Title: Caretakers Need to Care for Themselves with Seth and Lauren Rogen
• Release Date: March 19, 2025
• Host: Higher Ground (Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson)

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Introduction: Navigating Caregiving Challenges

In this emotionally charged episode of IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson, the hosts delve deep into the intricate and often overlooked challenges faced by caregivers of family members with Alzheimer's disease. Joining them are special guests Seth and Lauren Rogen, who bring their personal experiences and professional insights to the conversation.

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Personal Family Experiences with Alzheimer's

Michelle Obama opens up about her childhood in a multi-generational household, painting a vivid picture of her Uncle Terry and Aunt Robbie:

“[...] Uncle Terry was this distinguished gentleman who wore a suit coat and tie every day. As he aged into his 80s, signs of dementia began to surface, leading to daily confusion and nighttime wanderings.”
— Michelle Obama, [03:25]

Craig Robinson adds his perspective on witnessing his father's struggle as the primary caregiver:

“Our father, who was already disabled and walked with a limp, took on the immense responsibility of caring for Terry. It was an eye-opening and exhausting experience.”
— Craig Robinson, [05:23]

Moreover, Michelle shares the silent burdens carried during her upbringing:

“I felt like I didn't have Mom's attention because she was continually exhausted from caregiving. It was a silent loss that affected my childhood.”
— Michelle Obama, [07:13]

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Introducing Seth and Lauren Rogen: Personal Journeys

Craig warmly welcomes Seth and Lauren Rogen, highlighting their philanthropic efforts and personal connections to Alzheimer's:

“Lauren and Seth have firsthand experience with Alzheimer's in their family and are actively working to make a difference through their projects.”
— Craig Robinson, [07:56]

Michelle expresses her gratitude for their presence and the work they do:

“We're grateful for the work you’re doing and thankful that you’re here to share your experiences.”
— Michelle Obama, [09:24]

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The Shift in Alzheimer's Stigma and Awareness

Lauren Rogen discusses the evolving perception of Alzheimer's over the years:

“In the past, there was immense stigma and fear surrounding Alzheimer's. However, in the last decade, there's been a seismic shift in understanding and willingness to talk about it openly.”
— Lauren Rogen, [13:42]

Seth Rogen echoes this sentiment, highlighting the increased openness:

“People are now more willing to speak about their experiences with Alzheimer's, which is a positive change from when we first started our charity work.”
— Seth Rogen, [13:49]

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Listener's Question: Balancing Caregiving and Family Life

The episode takes a poignant turn as Nick, a listener, shares his struggles:

“I have an elderly mother with progressing Alzheimer's, and while my dad has been her primary caregiver, my relationship with my wife is suffering due to my divided attention.”
— Nick, [29:55]

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Seth and Lauren's Insights: Addressing Caregiver Burnout

Seth Rogen emphasizes the critical need for professional support:

“I realized early on that I was incapable of dealing with this grief alone. Seeking professional help was immensely beneficial.”
— Seth Rogen, [00:08]

Lauren Rogen adds the importance of community and support groups:

“Joining support groups made me realize I wasn’t alone in this struggle. Connecting with others who understand was incredibly helpful.”
— Lauren Rogen, [23:42]

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Practical Advice for Caregivers

Drawing from their experiences, Seth and Lauren offer actionable tips for caregivers like Nick:

1. Seek Professional Help:

   “Therapy can provide the tools needed to navigate the emotional toll of caregiving.”
   — Seth Rogen, [51:14]

2. Prioritize Self-Care:

   “You need to take care of yourself to effectively care for others. It's the oxygen mask principle.”
   — Lauren Rogen, [55:21]

3. Join Support Groups:

   “Being part of a community where you’re understood reduces isolation and stress.”
   — Lauren Rogen, [43:22]

4. Accept and Adapt:

   “Acceptance is key. Understand that your loved one is changing and that it's okay to prioritize your family.”
   — Lauren Rogen, [39:44]

5. Family Therapy:

   “Engaging in joint therapy sessions can help improve communication and strengthen relationships.”
   — Lauren Rogen, [52:17]

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Seth and Lauren's Ongoing Projects:

Lauren discusses their animated film project, inspired by their personal journeys:

“We're producing an animated film about a young woman caring for her mom with Alzheimer's. It's a blend of sadness and humor, aiming to portray the caregiving experience authentically.”
— Lauren Rogen, [10:14]

Seth adds humor to the discussion, highlighting the cathartic role of laughter:

“Humor is incredibly helpful. It doesn’t solve everything, but it can make the journey more bearable.”
— Seth Rogen, [57:00]

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Concluding Thoughts: Embracing Community and Humor

As the episode draws to a close, Michelle emphasizes the importance of community and vulnerability:

“By sharing our stories and finding moments of laughter, we can support each other through the toughest challenges.”
— Michelle Obama, [68:05]

Lauren and Seth reiterate the value of acceptance and self-care, leaving listeners with a message of hope and resilience.

“Don’t forget to take care of yourself and seek the support you need. You’re not alone in this journey.”
— Lauren and Seth Rogen, [65:07]

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Key Takeaways:

• Acceptance and Adaptation: Embracing the changes in loved ones with Alzheimer's allows caregivers to better manage their emotional well-being.

• Professional Support is Crucial: Therapy and support groups provide essential tools and community for those navigating caregiving.

• Prioritize Self-Care: Caregivers must take time for themselves to maintain their own health and relationships.

• Humor and Vulnerability: Finding moments of laughter and being open about struggles can alleviate the emotional burden of caregiving.

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This episode serves as a heartfelt exploration of the complexities of caregiving, offering invaluable insights and practical advice for those in similar situations. By sharing their personal stories and professional expertise, Michelle, Craig, Seth, and Lauren Rogen provide a compassionate guide for navigating the challenging landscape of Alzheimer's caregiving.

Transcript

[Seth Rogen]

I come from a family steeped in talking about. Talking about your feelings. My family can't stop talking about it.

[Lauren Rogen]

No, they cannot.

[Seth Rogen]

As much as you would wish, they're incapable of that. I just knew I was completely incapable of dealing with this. And I was just like, this is a professional level of grief and something that you need to have gone to school to understand how to navigate this kind of thing. And that was very helpful. Yeah.

[Lauren Rogen]

Seth was the one that was like, I love you. I'm happy to hold you while you cry, but you need a professional. And I did. I really did. And it really helped.

[Michelle]

This episode is brought to you by Cologuard and Pine Sol.

[Craig]

Hey, you.

[Michelle]

Hi, Craig.

[Craig]

How are you, Michelle?

[Michelle]

I'm doing pretty good.

[Craig]

Good. We're back at our nice Airbnb taping out here on the West Coast.

[Michelle]

It's so beautiful out here.

[Craig]

I know.

[Michelle]

Good weather coming from. It's like east coast doesn't, you know.

[Craig]

Weather'S a little chilly in the Midwest. It was. We had our coldest week and it hit down into the 30s, which isn't that cold for us, but it's cold.

[Michelle]

I know, but when you live in cold weather, you know how in Chicago, if it's been zero degrees or below zero, 40, people are, like, going to the beach, it's like 40 degrees and people are like, it's hot out here. So I feel like I've lost my cold weather edge. I'm kind of a wimp.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah.

[Craig]

People who live in the Midwest don't know DC is warm most of the time.

[Michelle]

Yeah. Yeah. That's one of the reasons why we like it there. I get it. Pretty good weather. You get all seasons, but the summers are hot and swampy, so it's good to be in LA and it's good to be with you.

[Craig]

So fun to be with you. I'm just having a ball doing these.

[Michelle]

But today we've got, you know, we're talking about some. Some tough stuff. Some tough stuff we've been dealing with.

[Craig]

Yeah. And, you know, we. We're. We're going to talk about people who are dealing with family members with Alzheimer's. And, you know, I was talking to the crew before we got started, and, you know, you talk about our Uncle Terry, our great Uncle Terry, and we didn't know what Alzheimer's was or dementia or anything like that back when we were younger. But we've been fortunate. We haven't had to deal with this like some people have.

[Michelle]

Just a Give listeners some context. So we grew up in A multi generational household. You know, Aunt Robbie was our piano teacher. She was like the piano teacher for the entire neighborhood. And Uncle Terry was kind of this distinguished gentleman who. One thing stood out with Terry is like every day he wore a suit coat and tie and suspenders with a brimmed hat. He would wake up every day and shave. He was very regimented. He would eat prunes every day. I remember that distinctly. Stewed prunes. Didn't know why. Now as I get older, I understand the stewed prunes.

[Craig]

He was ahead of the game. He was ahead of the game, but.

[Michelle]

Just setting the stage for. As he aged and he lived into his 80s, 80s, and both he and Aunt Robbie started to age as we grew up and became. I think it was by the time we were in eighth grade, it seemed like middle school age when Terri really started exhibiting signs of dementia. You know, it came in the form of nighttime, just confusion. So things, the things that we remembered growing up was always at. Because sometimes he started getting up and walking and reliving things. And at first I thought it was nightmares.

[Craig]

Yeah, we always thought it was nightmares. And we only noticed it at night because during the day mom and dad would handle things and not worry us with it. But at night you couldn't help it.

[Michelle]

But realized that he would get up in his pajamas and leave the house sometimes with no shoes. And, you know, and then the search would be on. Where is Terry? You know, he got out and Aunt Robbie was getting older, so she didn't know what to do. So our parents, our mother and father essentially became caretakers for them. And, you know, looking back, they were in that sandwich generation where they had young kids that they were raising. Not a lot of resources, two really wonderful people who were aging right before their very eyes. And my mom, who was staying at home was, you know, she would take care of Robbie, bathe her, organize her food. Dad would take care of Terry, make sure that he was still shaven. It was really a sweet image to have. Our father, who himself was.

[Craig]

Was disabled. You know, just to remind our listeners, our dad had Ms. And walked with a limp from the time we knew him. And it got progressively worse. And he would limp his way downstairs and bathe Terry and shave him and get him out of bed. And, you know, it got to a point where he would ask me to go down with him to help him because he. It was getting hard for him to do it. And it was really an eye opening thing for me to see.

[Michelle]

Well, they made it easy. Our parents did in this Multi generational household. But now, as we're adults and look back, I mean, we just went through caring for mom, and she fortunately never went through any dementia, but she got to the point where just sort of physically, she needed more care than she wanted. Right. And just the anxiety that comes with that, you know, just realizing that that's what mom and dad were dealing with, with no money, you know, needing to work every day. And I can tell you, we never talked about this, but I did feel a little, like, lost because I felt like I didn't have Mom's attention, you know, in a way, you know, you. I didn't want to say that out loud, but I know when I think back on it, I felt, wow, she was exhausted. And I felt her exhaustion in the form of like, she wasn't there for me in the same way, you know, she would cook dinner, but then she'd have to go down and do something for Robbie, or at night she couldn't sleep because Terri would get out. It just. You know, I think now that I look back as a kid, I felt that. That loss.

[Craig]

See, I never knew that. And you're right. We have never talked about that. And, you know, I was your typical boy, so I didn't. I didn't. I felt like mom was doing what she had to do. So whatever I wasn't getting, I sort of just thugged through it.

[Michelle]

And, well, so many families. And we're gonna talk about this more. Are in that same kind of. That same kind of crunch with aging parents, young kids, a sort of healthcare community that isn't really, you know, prepared to support families in this process. And, you know, we are gonna spend some time talking about that more today.

[Craig]

Yeah. And we have the perfect couple to help us with that. We've got Seth and Lauren Rogan with us today, and they have some history with caring for a parent who's had Alzheimer's disease. And so I'm really interested in that. And for those of you who don't know, Lauren is a screenwriter, produce, director, actress, and most of all, a philanthropist, along with Seth. And Seth really doesn't need any introduction, but he's also a fine actor and a funny person and writer, screenwriter, producer, director. But I want to welcome our guests, Lauren and Seth Rogen. Come on out, gang.

[Michelle]

Hey, guys. Welcome to the table.

[Craig]

So happy you're here.

[Lauren Rogen]

It's so nice to meet you. Very excited to chat with you guys.

[Seth Rogen]

Pleasure.

[Craig]

All right, come on in.

[Michelle]

We have not officially met or. No, not really to spend time together. And, you know, I'm a fan.

[Seth Rogen]

Thank you. Me too.

[Michelle]

But it just sort of amazing to, you know, know that people we see and come to love, you know, to hear about their lives outside of the work that they do and the things that make them famous. And, you know, our topic today, Alzheimer's, aging parents. I mean, you guys have lived it, and, you know, in addition to all the things you do in the business, you know, you're making a difference in people's lives. And so I just am grateful for the work that you do and just thankful that you guys are here to share some of that with us.

[Seth Rogen]

Thank you.

[Lauren Rogen]

Thank you for saying that. That means a lot coming from you, so thank you.

[Craig]

So how are you guys?

[Lauren Rogen]

We're good. Yeah, we're pretty good. You know, it's crazy times and busy.

[Michelle]

And, you know, you're working on some good, good, fun stuff lately.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah, lots of stuff. I've been very fortunate to be working a ton. We're producing a movie together, actually, about. About Alzheimer's, actually.

[Lauren Rogen]

A young woman caring for her mom with Alzheimer's, based on a graphic novel about a young woman caring for her mom and daughter.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah, and it's great. It's an animated film that's very sad and funny. And Julia Louis Dreyfus stars as the matriarch character who has dementia.

[Michelle]

Decide that animation was a good way to go.

[Lauren Rogen]

Honestly, it was the book itself. It really captured the caregiving experience from a young person's point of view with humor and a lot of deep sadness. And it's black and white, hand drawn. And there's something sort of very poignant, I think, about that visual.

[Michelle]

And how was it for you guys in the process of making it? You know, did it take you back? Oh, yeah. How did you manage it? Just getting through the project emotionally.

[Lauren Rogen]

Yeah. Well, we've been working on it since 2016. It takes a long time to get a movie made.

[Michelle]

I am learning.

[Lauren Rogen]

And then to make a movie, it's hard. Especially an animated movie that is not expensive. We were recording last week just with Abbi Jacobson and recording some of the more emotionally heavy scenes. And definitely, you know, there was not a dry eye in the recording studio.

[Craig]

Oh, I bet.

[Lauren Rogen]

You know, but it's. In a way, it feels so good to tell a story like this in a way that, like, I think is very. It's not gonna hit you over the head with sadness.

[Seth Rogen]

No, it's very entertaining.

[Lauren Rogen]

Yeah.

[Seth Rogen]

It feels good to take something so sad and turn it into something that is meant for ultimately. Yeah. For enjoyment and Entertainment. And although it's a sad, I think it's very uplifting and poignant and yeah, it's a very nice, creative exercise in that way.

[Michelle]

But we don't talk a lot about Alzheimer's. And as Craig and I were sharing earlier, growing up, we didn't even have a name for just sort of Terry got out. That's what it was. And eventually our grandfather rigged the house with buzzers and locks and, you know, so it became less a discussion about the disease or the issue because it wasn't known as a disease and it was just the process of containing him.

[Lauren Rogen]

Yeah, it's, you know, it's a disease that carries so much stigma, you know, dating back to when you guys were experiencing firsthand as children and people didn't really know and were really scared and would look at someone with dementia and have so much fear. And I think in the decades that have followed since then, I think that that stigma has lessened, especially in the last five or 10 years.

[Seth Rogen]

I think it feels like in the last decade there's been a seismic shift in people's understanding of Alzheimer's and willingness to even talk about it. When we first started doing charity in the Alzheimer's world, nobody wanted to talk about it even. And getting people with Alzheimer's to speak and to kind of come forward and share their experience was very hard. And even people's. People who had family members didn't want to talk about it. It was. Yeah, we've, I think, personally seen Alzheimer's kind of start to go over that hump from being something like no one talks about to being something that, like, people are seem more willing to talk about. Right.

[Lauren Rogen]

Yeah. And, and, and even in the early years of my mom's diagnosis, because she.

[Michelle]

Was early onset, so she was very young.

[Lauren Rogen]

She was very young. She started showing signs at 52 and then was diagnosed just before she was 55. So, you know, and she had, unfortunately we had all witnessed my grandparents, her parents have dementia. And so in those early years, my mom herself was ashamed and didn't want us to talk about it. My mom was a teacher. She taught elementary school for 35 years, first grade for most of that. And then to go from this woman who was an active teacher with children every day to someone who eventually was a shell of herself over a close to 18 year journey was, you know, a long, long road. But not talking about it in the beginning because of that stigma, because of that fear that she had that we all had, didn't help anyone, didn't help me didn't help her, doesn't help the overall cause. And so eventually, you know, as storytellers, we just kind of had to talk about. I couldn't keep it in any longer. And for better or worse, my mom's disease advanced. And so, you know, but I think once we started sharing our story was when I started to feel like I had any type of control over this thing that I didn't actually have any control over.

[Michelle]

And I just want to. Lauren, how old were you when she was first diagnosed? I just wanted to get a sense of, where were you in your life when you started losing your mom?

[Lauren Rogen]

Yeah, just before I turned 25, so really young.

[Craig]

So you were.

[Lauren Rogen]

Yeah, it was at my college graduation when I was 22 that she repeated a story a couple times throughout that weekend. And because of what I had seen with my grandparents.

[Michelle]

You knew what it was.

[Lauren Rogen]

Yeah, but I didn't say anything out loud to anyone for close to, I guess, a year and a half after that. And then eventually we were dating at that point, and my parents came out to visit, and it was very clear to me that this was happening. And I dropped them off at the airport, and I came back to Seth's apartment, and I just. It was the first time I had said it out loud to anyone, like, something is going on.

[Craig]

You said it to Seth.

[Lauren Rogen]

I said it to Seth, and he was like, she seemed fine.

[Seth Rogen]

Of course, I didn't really know her. I didn't know her. I didn't know her at all, really.

[Lauren Rogen]

So what do you mean?

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah, it was your overreaction. Yeah, it was one of the first times I met her.

[Lauren Rogen]

She's funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, soon it was obvious that, unfortunately, this was our path.

[Craig]

Well, you know, another story I think about is how mom and dad trained us to work hard. You remember the chores?

[Michelle]

Oh, yeah. We had chores very early on. Very early on. That's another thing. I think, you know, one of the best things that our parents did for us is real work. Real work. Real work around the house.

[Craig]

And what I mean by real work is I had. My chores were to clean the bathroom.

[Michelle]

I cleaned the bathroom.

[Craig]

What are you talking about?

[Michelle]

We alternated.

[Craig]

We alternated weeks, okay?

[Michelle]

Because I loved cleaning the bathroom, and I didn't.

[Craig]

But I had to do it. Mom wanted us both to know how to have a clean bathroom. But my every. Every weekend job was cleaning those stairs.

[Michelle]

Oh, that's right. Yeah.

[Craig]

We had 14 stairs. Notice I remember how many there were.

[Michelle]

Yeah, you had to. Yeah, that went from.

[Craig]

Went from our apartment, down to our aunt, great Aunt Robbie's apartment. And this is what I remember about Saturday morning. You remember that tin pot that we used to have? We had a tin pot, a pot now that used to be on the stove, which was now used for cleaning. And you put a little soap, dish soap in it, and then you put Pine Sol.

[Michelle]

Ooh, nothing like Pine Sol.

[Craig]

And there was nothing like that smell. Like when you came home from school and mom had been mopping and you could smell the Pine Sol. It was usually Monday because she had laundry on Monday. You come home from school and it smells like, ah, new house.

[Michelle]

Yeah.

[Craig]

And I have to say that I still, to this day, when I'm mopping, if we don't have that pine oil smell, that's it. That's it, isn't it? And here we are in adulthood and they're a partner of ours on this.

[Michelle]

Podcast, you know, an appropriate partner.

[Craig]

How about it? So when you get a chance out there, visit pinesol.com and find out where you can shop for your pine soldier. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Cologuard, a non invasive colon cancer screening test. The Cologuard test is a one of a kind way to feel more in control of your colon cancer. Screening through a prescription based test with none of the prep that's required of a colonoscopy. When I was a coach, my players had a team of people helping them with their physical well being. They had so many tools to make sure every member of the team was on top of their health and wellness. But what I want our listeners to know is that even if you eat well and have a healthy lifestyle, that does not mean you are low risk for colon cancer. The Cologuard test is the only FDA approved non invasive option that looks for both altered DNA and blood in your stool, which can indicate the presence of abnormal cells. The good news is that when caught at the early stages, colon cancer is survivable in 90% of people. So screening and early detection are crucial. With zero downtime, no special preparation, and a screening test that's delivered right to your door, we shouldn't let our health take a backseat. So if you're 45 or older and at average risk, ask your healthcare provider about screening for colon cancer with the Cologuard test. You can also request a Cologuard prescription [e-mail] podcast. The Cologuard test is intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Do not use a cologuard test if you have had adenomas, have inflammatory bowel disease and certain hereditary syndromes, or a personal or family history of colorectal cancer. The cologuard test is not a replacement for colonoscopy in high risk patients. Cologuard test performance in adults ages 45 to 49 is estimated based on a large clinical study of patients 50 and older. False positives and false negatives can occur. Cologuard is available by prescription only. This episode of IMO is brought to you by theraflux as a product that was created to provide effective and comforting relief when you're fighting the flu or a cold. Ferraflu firmly believes that the ability to rest and recover when sick should be a right, not a privilege. You know, I think back to the time when my dad was working for the City of Chicago as a stationary fireman, and it seemed to us that he never missed work and he never got sick. But what we realized is that my dad didn't want to take his paid sick time because he wasn't sure if he would keep his job by doing that. And my sister and I realized that my dad would be sick, but he just thugged through. Was a difficult thing for him to deal with then. And unfortunately, so many Americans still face this pressure today. 27 million Americans still lack paid sick time, which causes them to have to choose between losing a day's pay and getting the proper rest they need in order to get better. And what's worse, this all too common issue disproportionately impacts lower income individuals. Theraflu created the Rest and Recover Fund, which has committed nearly $1 million to provide micro grants to workers to help offset the financial burden of taking an unpaid sick day. It's been making a big impact and theraflu is committed to keeping the fight going as everyone deserves the right to rest and recover. Learn more or help someone apply for the [e-mail] right to recover. And before we get to the question, I want you to tell us about Hilarity for Charity.

[Lauren Rogen]

Yeah, we, you know, like I said, we spent the first few years feeling scared and sad and didn't know what to do. And then eventually we were just like, I have to start talking about it. So we went to a few events and then a friend came to us and is like, let's throw a variety show and we'll raise money for Alzheimer's in honor of your mom. Which was incredibly moving. And up until that point, this was in 2012, I felt very alone. I was like, I'm the only young person dealing with this. And of course, I was horribly wrong, which I luckily was wrong, because I wasn't alone. And there was, for better or worse, a community of young people who were dealing with it. And so I think that helped us sort of form the idea of, let's create something where young people can have a voice and they can feel like they are part of giving back. And like I said, having some sort of control over something that they don't have control over. And so we just sort of looked at our own situation when we started raising money as an organization, and we're like, how can we actually help people today in this moment?

[Seth Rogen]

And we were finding with Lauren's mother, who was progressing, that, like, it was one of these things in life where, like, money just made it better. Like, and like, you know, it's unfair when those things happen and you don't, you know, it's not like you want to look at a kid in the face and be like, money can actually fix some major problems. It cannot buy happiness, but it can for sure alleviate stress and angst and a sense of impending doom. And yeah, we had, around the clock, we were able to buy a duplex for Lauren's mother and father. And he lived in one side and she lived in the other side with 24 hours a day, seven day a week care. And we just saw like, oh, this has made everyone's lives so much more manageable. And that was really part of the inspiration for, like, what do we do with the money we are raising? Maybe we can help alleviate other people's problems.

[Craig]

Yeah.

[Lauren Rogen]

Yeah. So that's how we started our grant program in which we provide respite care to people who are caring for their loved ones at home. And we read applications every month, and the stories are unbelievably real and often quite sad and dire. And people are, you know, doing everything they can with what they have, but it's often not enough to care for someone with this disease. And they need help, they need respite, they need a break. And so that's where part of our money goes into awarding these respite grants to people who are caring for their loved ones at home. We also created a lot of support groups. I was part of a support group for young people. The first support group I went to was, like, just a general group. And I remember there was a man in there who was in his 50s caring for his mother, who was probably in her late 70s or 80s, caring for his mother. And I was just like, that's Sad, but I'm 23. Like, we're in drastically different boats. And so actually the woman who ran that support group was the one who created this group for young people. And it was people under, I think, 35. And that really showed me community. Being with people who understand exactly what you're going through is so helpful and can really, really get you through a tough situation. So we made a lot of different support groups, made them access. We were doing online virtual support groups since 2014, long before they went to J and so doing that. And then of course, we have a lot of programming for caregivers, symposiums. We do a large virtual event every year. All throughout the year, we do virtual learning workshops for people and created what we call like the five brain health tips. So it's getting good sleep, eating well, exercising emotional well, being so, you know, being active, being loved, doing therapy, meditating, and then learning new things like being mentally fit. So new hobbies, being socially active, those types of things.

[Michelle]

And they've talked that it's different from like, some people think puzzling and things like that, but they're learning that that's not necessarily the same thing as learning a brand new skill.

[Lauren Rogen]

Exactly. Yeah. Like they say, crossword puzzles look probably better than staring at the television. Exactly. But yeah, if you're doing a crossword puzzle, you're accessing what's already in your brain. You want to learn new things. So, like, we took up pottery. I'm now doing duolingo and, you know, and just always trying to keep your brain, like, learning and growing as much as you can. And we created online coursework called HFC Universe. And the first level is taught by Seth and some other fellow celebrity professors.

[Seth Rogen]

Quinta Brunson, Kristen Bell, and yeah, some other people. Well, here's what's funny.

[Craig]

We actually.

[Seth Rogen]

This is sad. What I'm about to. We did a scientific study that was published where me and the neurologist Richard Isaacson both taught the same coursework to kids. And we proved definitively that young people learn things better from celebrities than from actual doctors.

[Lauren Rogen]

Wow.

[Craig]

It's not an uplifting fact.

[Seth Rogen]

It is good to know.

[Lauren Rogen]

I know.

[Seth Rogen]

So whenever someone's like, why are you doing this? This? I'm like, because science has told me you will retain it better to hear it from me.

[Michelle]

The only thing I wish that worked with voting and not to. Not to bring us down, you know, that was the hope.

[Craig]

But Lauren, does he make you call him Dr. Rogan?

[Seth Rogen]

Now.

[Craig]

Exactly.

[Lauren Rogen]

Only sometime.

[Seth Rogen]

Only sometime.

[Michelle]

So what do you. What are you teaching? What do you tell. Teach us something.

[Seth Rogen]

Well, again, I think for the moment, Lauren's talking about sleep is actually one of, I think, the things that, especially in, like, our culture, like, you've been conditioned to deprioritize sleep.

[Lauren Rogen]

And I'll sleep.

[Michelle]

I'll sleep with a break. It's like. And you. And you're frying your brain process.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah, it's true. And that's something that, like, I think. Yeah. Is very easy for. And it's good news. Like, that's one of the few good ones. It's like, most people like to sleep, to be told, like, prioritize your sleep.

[Michelle]

I'm a big fan of sleep.

[Seth Rogen]

Oh, it's great.

[Michelle]

Bedtime is my favorite time.

[Lauren Rogen]

That's like Lauren, literally, she got into bed last night. I was like, this. This is my favorite time of day.

[Michelle]

You talk to Barack. I'm just like, oh, it's over. He's like, there you are.

[Lauren Rogen]

You know, we got our puppy. It's just really. But yeah, no, it's funny because so many people are like, how could I sleep better? My sleep is terrible. And it's like, well, you actually can. If you work on it and you bring in some tools and aids. We have a cooling pad. I have a weighted blanket. I have the best mask. I. We do white noise. I have cooling sheets, like 300 things. But, like. But I. Because I do track my sleep, I see that doing those things legitimately increased.

[Craig]

It sounds like that would keep me wide awake.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah, exactly. All of that stressful. You do get a score now, like, every. It's like they've gamified it. So, yeah, like, I get a sleep score, which does. In the middle of the night, I'll be awake and I'm like, my score is plummeting.

[Michelle]

And every morning.

[Seth Rogen]

I know I had a pretty good score last night.

[Craig]

This might be a good time to hear our question from our listener, because let's help him get some solutions. So we have Natalie, who's our producer, will read the question and then we'll.

[Michelle]

I'm sorry, Natalie, you are involved. Yeah, she wants to pretend like I'm telling you.

[E]

Hi, Michelle and Craig. My name is nick and I'm 38 years old and I live in Miami, Florida. I have an elderly mother who's recently been admitted to an assisted living community due to her Alzheimer's disease progressing beyond our family's care. But the road to getting there was tough. For several years, my dad And I were her primary caregivers. Well, my dad was her primary caregiver, taking care of the house, cleaning, cooking, and then I was my dad's caregiver. I'd grocery shop for him, make sure he was eating properly, come over to watch the game. But that often meant I was leaving my own wife and young son at home a few nights a week. Now my relationship with my wife is suffering. She's very understanding of my situation, but we lack any real time together outside of going to work, taking care of our house, making sure our son has everything he needs. And then recently, in one of our weekly visits to see my mom in her new care facility, she introduced us to her new boyfriend that she met there. The only problem is my dad is very much in love with her and dedicated to her still. We know in our heads that this is the disease taking its effect. But we're having a difficult time watching my mom turn into someone that sees me and my father as, quote, the assholes out to ruin her relationship with the love of her life. And now I'm left wondering, after all these years of strain, what will the emotional fallout of all of this be? My dad's sense of himself without my mom and his heartbreak at what's happening at the end, I'll continue to be there for him. But my own home life has suffered so much for so long, and I know my wife and son deserve so much more. In the midst of it all, I haven't even begun to try to come to terms with the fact that my mom is no longer the same person that raised me and supported me through the best and worst moments of my life. And soon that she won't be here with us at all. How do we even begin to come together again as a family when we're all exhausted, already devastated, and have no real time to take care of ourselves? How do we move forward, each of us, successfully, from here? Thanks for your thoughts, Nick.

[Seth Rogen]

Ooh, Nick.

[Lauren Rogen]

Keeping it light.

[Seth Rogen]

Nick's going through.

[Craig]

Welcome to the show.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah, exactly.

[Michelle]

And thank you again for the animated film. Yes, we will need it.

[Seth Rogen]

It'll help us a little bit. Wow, that's a lot, Nick.

[Lauren Rogen]

There's a lot to unpack there.

[Seth Rogen]

Well, I think one of the things that we learned early on is I remember because Lauren's father was taking care of Lauren's mother and was very resistant to getting help. I think especially generationally, it's like. And his parents had. There had been things in his family where people had been put in homes, and I think he was not thrilled with how that was, so he was very insistent on kind of bearing the weight of it. And one thing we learned was that often caretakers die before the person they are taking care of because of the physical and emotional toll it takes on them. And that was something we were, like, seeing happen in real time, basically, you know, very much.

[Lauren Rogen]

It was very. My parents were in Florida at the time. We were in Los Angeles. And it was very clear that the strain that was on my dad as her caregiver was not good. And it was so heavy and so immense. And so it was one of those.

[Seth Rogen]

Things where, like, he was in it and we would, like, leave and come back every once in a while. And I think, like, the three months that, you know, didn't seem like things had gotten much worse from his perspective. And then we, you know, because we, again, were coming and going, we'd come back and be like, oh, my God, like, this is.

[Michelle]

This is a mess.

[Seth Rogen]

So bad.

[Craig]

And how did that manifest in actually, what were the stressors that you saw?

[Lauren Rogen]

Yeah, yeah. Well, so my mom, you know, early onset is. Well, so Dr. Isaacson will quote him and say, like, if you've seen one case of Alzheimer's, you've seen one case of Alzheimer's. So it really does affect everyone differently, although, of course, there are some things that are a bit more universal. So my mom just started getting more and more difficult, resistant to help. She also would wander. She would walk around the house from sunup to way past sundown and just scream. And eventually she started screaming for hours, walking around and screaming. She also would walk out the door. My dad had to sort of put paper over the windows to cover up what was outside to try to keep her inside. And the toll it was taking on was huge, as I said. And we often felt like when we tried to step into caregive, there was resistance because he really. He was her caregiver, and he felt.

[Seth Rogen]

Like he had, like, a system. Like, he was like, this is like, I know how to work the system.

[Craig]

You guys are messing with the system. So not from your mom, but actually from your dad.

[Lauren Rogen]

Oh, yes. It quickly, you know, after the first couple years, it was clear, I would say by the time she was 58, 57, maybe she had to retire from teaching, maybe 56 even. And then by, yeah, by 58, 59, she really needed care. She was still mobile at that point, but it was pretty hard to, you know, get her to focus or, you know, stay calm in a lot of moments. And so I, you know, I was in therapy at the time, still am. And, you know, my therapist was like, well, if your dad is the primary caregiver, then you should be your dad's primary caregiver. So sort of like, you know what our.

[Michelle]

What Nick has said.

[Lauren Rogen]

What Nick has said is, you know, when someone is the primary caregiver and they are showing that they are taking the lead, then as the child, it was very helpful to me to know how I could help. You know, before it was like, I don't know what to do or how to help. So it was like, how do we make this easier for my dad so then he can help my mom?

[Seth Rogen]

But there's also the nuance of, like, when do you kind of force them into doing things they don't wanna do? Cause, like. Cause, yeah, like, you hope people will arrive at what is the right decision on their own.

[Lauren Rogen]

Yeah, but that doesn't always happen.

[Seth Rogen]

That does not always happen in the amount of time it needs to. And so I feel like there was a moment where we were like. It was my dad, actually, who has no filter whatsoever.

[Lauren Rogen]

It was.

[Seth Rogen]

It really was like we were like.

[Lauren Rogen]

We all went to their house in.

[Seth Rogen]

Florida for Thanksgiving, and my dad was just like. He talked with his eyes closed, and he was just like, you have to move out of this house and you have to move to California, and you have to not be alone here. Like, he's like, this is an excruciating situation for you. It's excruciating for your children. It's just getting worse and worse. And he's like, there's absolutely no excuse to not leave and to come to Los Angeles, basically.

[Michelle]

This is one of these issues that even transcends the Alzheimer's issue. It's, you know, dealing with aging parents, period.

[Seth Rogen]

You know what I mean?

[Michelle]

It was, you know, one of the challenges with my mom, who, you know, again, was always independent. But there was a level of pride in her. And even though we had the resources, she resented the help that we were. And so then I found myself sort of in a reverse parent, child relationship.

[Seth Rogen]

Oh, for sure.

[Michelle]

Because getting her to see, stick to the diet she was supposed to have, or, you know, trying to make sure that she was being nice to the caregivers. You know, I could empathize with her, feeling like she wanted to maintain as much control, but she was making it hard. And this is with resources. So a lot of families are dealing with this kind of stress of aging parents not really being able to let go and doing it because they don't Want to be a burden in their minds.

[Lauren Rogen]

Absolutely.

[Seth Rogen]

But don't realize how much harder they're making it emotionally for people by not getting help and just. Yeah. Pride is a tough thing sometimes, I think, you know, and sometimes makes things better and sometimes makes things worse, you know?

[Michelle]

Yeah.

[Lauren Rogen]

And I think, you know, my mom, having seen both of her parents go through it and my dad witnessing my mom's parents go through it, they saw a lot of things they were obviously scared of and didn't want to repeat. You know, per Nick's question, I'll share. My grandfather, my mom's dad, when he was. He was older, his onset was sort of in his 70s. But my grandmother, you know, was having trouble caring for him at home and put him in a nursing facility. And shortly after he was there, walked in, and there he was with his new girlfriend. And I was. You know, I was under 10 at the time, so I don't have a huge memory of it, but I know that it upset her so much that she took him out of that. That home and put him somewhere else that was unfortunately lesser. And that move wasn't good for anyone.

[Michelle]

Yeah.

[Lauren Rogen]

And wasn't good for him. Wasn't good for her. I don't think it was good for my mom or my uncle witnessing that. And so I think that my. My dad, when he was faced with it, really wanted to take that history into, you know, his decision to keep my mom at home entirely and to bring care in, which is wonderful, but as Seth touched on, not financially feasible for so many people. And so I think it comes back to. And it's so hard, and I can say it, and it's easy, but, like, a level of acceptance.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah.

[Lauren Rogen]

And, you know, meeting someone where they're at. And my mom early on actually kind of gave me an amazing gift early on, after her diagnosis, I asked her one day if she was scared. And she told me that she wasn't scared for her, but she was scared for us because she knew what we were gonna be going through because she had gone through it herself, but that I was not to stop my life for her. And I was not to move back home to Florida. I was not to give up who I was becoming in my early 20s to take care of her. And I think that, you know, when I think of Nick in this situation, how we talked about his mom is not who she used to be. And I think it's hard, but to remember that. And we're not parents, but to imagine that. I assume all parents want their children to be Happy. And ultimately, at the end of the day, that's what they would want. And so you have to, as the caregiver, sort of sit back and think, my mom, my dad, they'd want me to be happy. And what does that mean? What choices do I need to make in order to still live my own life in the way that my parent would want me to? And so people who are in the sandwich generation, who are in the thick of it, right, like caring for kids, caring for parents, have double duty of care. And it's so incredibly hard to manage that. And you just have to sort of accept you cannot make everyone happy in every moment. And some days it'll be your mom, some days it'll be your kid. And hopefully more often than not, it'll be yourself. Because that is like what, the oxygen mask thing, right? You put it on yourself before anyone else. Like, you can't take care of other people if you're not taking care of yourself. Which is why ultimately I figured I needed to care for my dad so he could care for my mom. And so, you know, I think that, you know, you just have to understand your situation and then you look for resources. You know, unfortunately, our country does not have universal health care as much as we all wish it did. And the resources for caregivers specifically are not yet, I will say with optimism where they could be. Although there have been strides and there are actually a few government programs and state to state. It's also different where you can get reimbursements, stipends, et cetera for care or even reimbursements for yourself. Taking time off work, that's a huge thing. If you're in the sandwich generation, you're often, you're caring for a parent, you're caring for a child, and you're having a job. Like, how do you do that? So I'll say we at HFC have, we provide connections to care navigation services. So I will say, like, that is a huge thing. Go to a professional who can help you, a social worker who can say, okay, this is your situation. Here's what's available to you, here's things you can apply for anyone who is, if you're at the beginning, middle, and at any point turning to a professional, a care navigator social worker, they can really help.

[Michelle]

And remembering there is no shame in any of it. And I'm just glad that Nick is reaching out and asking for help. But it begins with making sure that families dealing with this situation start, as you said earlier, start to talk about it because you can't get help from something that you're hiding.

[Seth Rogen]

No. And so, and it's uncomfortable. Like the companionship thing is a very prevalent theme and comes up with a lot of people as you would imagine. It is in many ways like the most awkward element of it. And, and, and it's like my grandmother was, was in a home and my grandfather was in the same home and she had like a boyfriend who I think wasn't real, but she would talk about him all the time.

[Lauren Rogen]

He lived, he lived in California. That's right.

[Seth Rogen]

She always wanted to go visit him at home. California.

[Michelle]

Was there a reason she needed to have.

[Lauren Rogen]

They were in their make believe by the way.

[Michelle]

Okay.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah, they were just very old.

[Craig]

She was trying to get.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah, exactly. I think she was trying to make him joke.

[Lauren Rogen]

She went on the great estates.

[Seth Rogen]

Oh they, she would talk about it all the time. She would say dirty things. Yeah, it was, it was, it was wild.

[Lauren Rogen]

But she was a funny lady.

[Seth Rogen]

But it happens a lot and I mean. Or it goes the other way like with, with Lauren's father, if I may. Like, you know, Lauren's mother was very advanced in her early onset but also was very much alive. But he was very lonely and his wife as he knew her was no longer there and the companionship he wanted and all that was no longer there. And so we implored him to try to start dating. And that is also like again, it's such an awkward thing to preach and it's an awkward situation to enter into with other women as he's on j date trying to, to meet other women. And, and, and I remember there was a few. Cuz it's like he would say he was married in the application.

[Lauren Rogen]

I helped him, I help him create his.

[Michelle]

Like you got to work on the profile.

[Seth Rogen]

Exactly. We need an asterisk there.

[Lauren Rogen]

I think it was at the end. And it was something like and, and, and reach out if you don't mind that my wife lives next door.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah, it was like.

[Lauren Rogen]

Yeah, we explained the situation and, and yeah, you know, he, he went out with a few women at first that, you know, he has some funny stories that I guess I won't share, but. Oh, there was a woman who picked him up and drove him and then when they pulled into the parking spot, she pulled out her handicap sticker and he was like oh, I didn't. And she was like oh, it was my deceased husband sticker and I still use it, it's fine.

[Michelle]

And it got some benefits.

[Seth Rogen]

He didn't like that.

[Lauren Rogen]

There was no second Date there.

[Craig]

Hey, everyone, just want to let you know I'm back out here in LA and I'm having a wonderful time, especially since I'm staying at an Airbnb. I'm staying in one in West Hollywood and it is fabulous. The check in was easy. The hosts were great. They left us some nice gifts. Coincidentally, I happened to be out here when my daughter's out here, and she was staying on her own, away from her father, checked into a hotel until she found out she couldn't check in. So she came out and hung out with me in West Hollywood at my Airbnb. And let me tell you, when she saw it, I think she had second thoughts. So we got to hang out a little bit and we did a tour. And it's a three bedroom place. It's got a laundry, it's got a pool, it's got so many nice amenities. And I told my daughter, I said, hey, listen, I know Dad's square, but you can come stay with me for a couple of nights. I'm gonna be here till Friday. And she's like, no, I'll take. She had her own work stuff and her business stuff. And I get it. I used to be a hotel guy myself. But lo and behold, guess what happened. Just this morning, my daughter called me and said, hey, dad, you mind if I come over and do some laundry? I said, of course. And she came over and we got to do. She did her laundry, we got to have coffee together, breakfast. It was fantastic. The next time I come to la, or practically anywhere I go nowadays, I'm gonna book an Airbnb because I can tell you, it is so much nicer than staying at a hotel. And I just love the privacy. I love the room, and more importantly, I love the hospitality. This episode of IMO is also brought to you by Acorns. Acorns is a financial wellness app that makes it easy to start saving and investing for your future. You don't need to be an expert. Acorns will recommend a diversified portfolio that matches you and your money goals. You don't need to be rich. Acorns lets you get started with the spare money you've got right now. Even if all you've got is spare change. You know, one of the best pieces of money advice I've ever gotten is from my father, Frasier Robinson. Always pay yourself first. Which means put some money away before you even start paying your bills. So sign up now and join the over 13 million all time customers who have already saved and invested over $22 billion with Acorns. Plus Acorns will boost your new account with a $20 bonus investment offer only [e-mail] IMO that's a C O R N S.com IMO to get your $20 bonus investment today, you don't have to be a Wall street trader to invest. Acorns makes it easy for everyone. Paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns Investing involves risk Acorns Advisors, LLC, an SEC registered investment advisor. View important [e-mail] IMO this episode of the IMO podcast is brought to you by BetterHelp. How many times a day do you compare yourself to others or wish your life looked like someone else's? We all do it sometimes because it's easy to envy friends lives on social media when you only see the good parts. But you know what they say, comparison is the thief of joy and in reality, nobody has it all together. Therapy can help you focus on what you want instead of what others have. Like that career goal you set your sights on, or that relationship you want to grow, or that daily habit you want to get into. Because your best life is always better than the idea of someone else's. We believe in therapy at imo, and we've seen firsthand how beneficial it is to invest in your own well being. You know, this reminds me of my teams when I coached back in my day we didn't have therapists assigned to the team and boy, it sure would have been nice to have access to BetterHelp so I could send my players to someone who I could trust and was reputable. BetterHelp has experienced therapists ready to help you with challenges ranging from anxiety and relationships to stress. It's convenient too. You can join a session with the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life. And you deserve that. It's time to stop comparing and start living with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com imo today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L p.com imo this is a really interesting point that you bring up here because for Nick, he's seeing exactly what you folks saw. How can we help him help his dad? Because I think, I mean, hilarity for charity, what you've been through. You guys are right at the point where you can help Nick today.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah, it's I don't know Nick's relationship with his dad, but I think some very blunt, honest conversations were necessary. Necessary. Painful, but necessary and actually really moved things in a better direction. Like in our family.

[Lauren Rogen]

Definitely. Yeah. No, and there was. I mean, I remember my dad and I certainly, you know, it wasn't all, you know, sunshine and rainbows. Every moment of this, no doubt. And, you know, certainly there was conflict. And there was one moment where we had deep conflict. And I was like, can you meet me at my therapist? And we had a joint session where we talked through everything. And that was really helpful to take time to listen to him and for him to take time to listen to me. And I think that, you know, like, as the child, you have this sort of, like, ownership right over your parents. It's like, well, it's like my mom and it's my dad, but it's like. But it was his partner and his spouse who was with him for, you know, over 40 years.

[Michelle]

Well, and you have the vision of what your life, how's it gonna end?

[Lauren Rogen]

Of course, my parents had, you know, my dad worked. He was the manager of a manufacturing plant. My mom taught elementary school. My parents were those people who. Saving for this great retirement to travel, to live that moment. And they didn't get it.

[Michelle]

All those sacrifices and, you know, and.

[Lauren Rogen]

There'S a lot of anger. You know, a lot of anger. But to go back to what I said a few minutes ago, you have to have acceptance. And that is. It is hard. I'm not saying it's easy, but just to sort of remember where you are. So I think that for Nick, I would say for Nick and his dad to join a support group, to go on our website, fill out the form, and they won't be in the same group. Cause they're not in the same boat. And to talk to other people who are in it in this moment, honestly, just being seen helps lower the stress. It just does. And so that's the first thing I would say. Yeah.

[Seth Rogen]

And as far as the specifics of his, you know, Nick's mother thinks she has a new boyfriend. Like, I mean, that would tell me probably that her dementia has progressed to a point where, like, she's not the same person. She's not the same person. And. Yeah. And her father, or his father should, again, I mean, should. It's easier said than done. It would probably behoove him to start accepting that and not trying to put her back into the box she used to be in, but rather make the hard, you know, choice to accept that it is different now and it won't ever be the same. And that the romantic relationship they once had and that companionship is just not there in the way it used to be. And he can lament it, and he could be resentful towards her and try to stop her from being around this guy who probably makes her happy, or he could accept it and maybe do things for himself that. That offered him some sort of companionship or allowed him to move in a new direction rather than looking kind of backwards at what once was, you know?

[Michelle]

Well, it's a loss.

[Lauren Rogen]

It's a huge loss that you face every day.

[Michelle]

Every day. And it's, you know, harder than actual death because, you know, the person sitting.

[Lauren Rogen]

Right in front of you right there.

[Michelle]

Every day, you know, reminding you, I'm here, but it's still a loss. I'm just curious, in your therapy support groups, is there a way to talk about that with Nick's dad? Does it help to equate it to a death that if she were actually physically gone, he would be able to give himself the permission to move on with life and to take the steps to keep living himself? But I don't know if that's helpful.

[Lauren Rogen]

I mean, I think you just said such a key term, which is giving yourself permission. I think that caregivers, especially when they're caring for their. Their spouse and their parent, these people who are the. The key influencers in their lives, it is so hard to put yourself first, but you have to. You have to know that that person loves you so much that they would want you to be taking care of yourself, themselves, physically and mentally. And, you know, and. And Nick's dad is in such a brutal position, and every day to have that anticipatory grief, which is so rough, and to see this woman who he shared his life with and created a family with, be different, it is nearly impossible to accept that. But you have to. A lot of caregiving techniques stem from improv, from the simple. When you learn improv, the first thing they teach you is yes. And when someone presents an idea you don't show, you say, yes and that. And so when Nick's mom introduces her boyfriend and you wanna put your head against the wall, you have to take a breath and be like, yes, that's your boyfriend. And also, here's your husband. And we can all sit together and why don't we all have tea together? And it's this huge job to accept.

[Michelle]

Yeah. The word acceptance strikes me. A part of this is the acceptance can lead to really dealing with the grief and the loss, and then maybe for Nick, there's a chance to find the laughter in it.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah.

[Michelle]

You know.

[Seth Rogen]

Well, it sounds like him and his wife are having issues as well.

[Craig]

I'm glad you said that, Seth. Cause I wanted to bring that up because. So Nick's helping his dad, he's helping his mom, and he's married and got kids, and they're sort of going by the wayside. And I'm. I'm looking at the two of you and how you deal with it, with humor and with pragmatism. And then you start this foundation. Nick doesn't have that. Any ideas for Nick that we can leave him with?

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah, Nick should go to therapy if he's not already going to therapy. I think that, honestly, that was. I mean, we were very young when all this started. We just started dating. We were both in our early 20s, basically. And my whole family are social workers, essentially. My mother's a social worker. My sister is a social worker. One of my half brothers is a social worker. So I come from a family steeped in talking about it. Talking about your feelings. My family can't stop talking about it.

[Lauren Rogen]

No, they cannot.

[Seth Rogen]

As much as you would wish, they are incapable of that. I just knew I was completely incapable of dealing with this. And I was just like, this is a professional level of grief and something that you need to, like, have gone to school to understand how to navigate this kind of thing. And that was very helpful.

[Lauren Rogen]

Seth was the one that was like, I love you. I'm happy to hold you while you cry, but you need a professional. And I did. I really did. And it really helped. And I think that, like, having that type of person who has studied and knows how to navigate grief, a professional.

[Seth Rogen]

And they could go together. And like, we've talked just. Cause I think there's a stigma around couples therapy. It means there's a problem in your marriage or relationship or something. But we've gone and talked to therapists together just about how to communicate about this stuff and how we can help each other and make each other's experience with it better. And I think that has been very helpful.

[Lauren Rogen]

Yeah. Yeah. And I would also add that Nick and his dad have put his mom in a very safe situation where she feels comfortable enough to make a friend and find some happiness. That's a great person. And so Nick should give himself the permission to let his mom be there and to go to his family and to not worry and not need to physically be there every day. For she is cared for. It sounds like she is well looked after. And so therefore he should take that time and not feel guilt to spend time with his own family. Cause I think that that's the thing.

[Seth Rogen]

I mean, there was a moment where it was just like, do I see her every day? Is it bad if I don't see her every day? Can I take a few days off? Is it okay? Is it. It's for sure not the most fun thing to go do. So, no.

[Lauren Rogen]

Like, when we were entering, like, year six, since my mom had walked or talked or spoken or cared for herself in any way, and that is exhausting. And it got to the point where I was like, I can't go every day. I can't go see her every day. And she wouldn't want me to.

[Craig]

That's right.

[Lauren Rogen]

And I need to protect myself a little bit. And I think that Nick needs to honestly just be a little more selfish.

[Michelle]

Well, he's gotta protect his kids.

[Lauren Rogen]

Yeah, exactly.

[Michelle]

You know, I mean, I shared that, you know, when mom was going through it, I hadn't shared with anybody because I was young when she was taking care of our elderly great aunt and uncle. I was in grammar school, you know, just sort of prime time, and my mother was absent. And I resented it. And I didn't resent her, but I resented the situation because, you know, here I was. And maybe because Craig was a little older and in high school, probably at the time, driving and sort of independent, it upturned our household. So I shared that because for Nick, he's gotta think about his future, his family's future, the toll this is taking on his child. And that's not the example of aging that we wanna put out there.

[Lauren Rogen]

No, it's not. And again, go back to, like, I imagine it's not what his mother.

[E]

Right, right, right.

[Lauren Rogen]

Like, I think that is such a huge thing that caregivers become so selfless that they forget that they are humans who are alive and living and need to experience joy as well. And it isn't just about being a caregiver 24 7. Because that will not help his mother also.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah, but I think it's, like, when you're miserable, it's sometimes easier to just be miserable. Like, and I think people. It's hard to pull yourself out of it sometimes. And if he's just really sad because his mother's sick and he's just in it and his dad is unhappy and, like, it's almost easier at times to hand yourself over to, like, the miserable side of things than to try to be around your kids and wife and act like a happy, functional person, you know? And I think that's something that Again, therapy can help a lot. And prioritizing your relationship and making sure that, you know, you are communicating with your wife and you're talking about all this stuff and taking time. I mean, time is the thing that you just need to.

[Lauren Rogen]

You're scheduling time for the things you love or just little things that help you. Like, neither of my parents were big drinkers, but I remember like, you know, my dad was going through and he'd be like, ah, maybe pour myself a drink tonight. And I was like, have two.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah.

[Lauren Rogen]

Like I remember one time, short of illegal drugs, do whatever.

[Seth Rogen]

And if you want some illegal drugs.

[Lauren Rogen]

We can do that.

[Michelle]

And I've got this, I've got this nice ceramic make.

[Seth Rogen]

Exactly.

[Michelle]

Bong. That'll help you out, make all that stuff.

[Seth Rogen]

But yeah, I think it's. I was so happy on days when Lauren made the choice that she didn't have to go see her mother because I was like, that's her prioritizing her own mental health. And she's not abandoning her mother. She sees them all the time. We move them six blocks away from where we live. They were very close. But those days where I could just see she was like, I don't need to do this today and I'm going to actually maybe try to enjoy myself today.

[Michelle]

Well, and if you talk about brain health, your brain health, when there is a genetic predisposition, it becomes increasingly more important for the family members of people with Alzheimer's to focus on self care for their longevity.

[Lauren Rogen]

Oh yes, depression is not good for the brain.

[Michelle]

Depression and sleeplessness and being distraught and upset, not taking the time to get the sleep blanket and the cold sheets and the meditation and all of that. It, it's just the irony of this disease that, you know, you, you may be closely linked to it because of the genetic DNA, but that means that you can't lose yourself in the caretaking because you need to focus because there is prevention, totally. There are things you can do that.

[Lauren Rogen]

Is the hope, right? Like someone is diagnosed and like, unfortunately, like there is still really nothing that will stop, prevent or cure this disease other than living a brain healthy lifestyle. May prevent it, may delay it. Four out of 10 cases might be delayed or prevented. That's a lot.

[Michelle]

That's a lot.

[Lauren Rogen]

And so, you know, and I spent a lot of years, a lot of time with anger and depression. And don't get me wrong, I still do. I'm a human. But at the same time I have to remember, like, I have to think of myself and the things that are gonna keep Me healthy. Because we, we need to do that in order to hopefully grow old, which is the goal. Right.

[Craig]

So that's terrific segue here because we'd like to give Nick something, some tips that would make the sort of give him the power to be the best version of himself and his family. And I've just jotted down a few things you all talked about.

[Lauren Rogen]

What's on the list.

[Craig]

So what do we say the first one is? Meet em where they're at.

[Lauren Rogen]

Yes.

[Craig]

Slash acceptance. Right. That was the.

[Seth Rogen]

Don't yell. Don't try to convince your mom she doesn't have a new boyfriend in her head. She does now. You got two dads for a little while.

[Craig]

And what I love about this is we always say meet people where they're at, except when they're sick. We're always trying to fix it. So I love that. The second one I have here is care for yourself for the caregiver.

[Lauren Rogen]

Yeah, definitely.

[Seth Rogen]

Especially like if his mother is in a home, they're feeding her, the people watching her, like there's not much you need to be doing.

[Lauren Rogen]

There were times that I literally would stop and I would see my mom for five minutes. I'd walk in, I'd kiss her on the head, I'd say a thing or two, I'd squeeze her hand and then I left. Cause that was all I could take. And that felt like enough to remind her she is loved. I feel like we're together and in a way like Nick could make a schedule. You know, as Seth said, like she is cared for. He doesn't have to go every day. He doesn't have to go five times a week. He could go twice a week, once a week, whatever works so that he is also there to show up for his family.

[Craig]

And the next one I have here is seek helpful resources, turn to the professionals. And that goes with the next one is the family therapy. Joining a support group. I think that's all one big category.

[Lauren Rogen]

Definitely. And we at HFC can help help point you in the right direction. There are a lot of services out there that are there to help people navigate through this. You really don't have to do it alone. It is such an isolating thing to care for a loved one with dementia. But it doesn't have to be.

[Craig]

And one last thing which you both hit on that we experience with our mom is what would your mom want?

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah.

[Craig]

And that's something that we can all do for our family members. Doesn't have to just be children. But the people who are gonna be Here after we're gone. Let em know what you want. It takes the pressure off.

[Michelle]

Let's talk about death. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lauren Rogen]

We're such a youth obsessed culture. Like, ignoring death doesn't do anyone any favors.

[Seth Rogen]

No. And if Nick. Again, like. Yeah. A good thing for Nick to think is if he has the choice between going and visiting his mom and spending time with his wife, asking himself, what would my mom want me to do in this situation?

[Michelle]

And as he said, she thinks he's an.

[Seth Rogen]

Exactly. She doesn't want to see him anyway. Hang out with your wife who hopefully doesn't also think you're an.

[Michelle]

Don't let it get to that point.

[Seth Rogen]

Where she thinks you're an asshole. Exactly.

[Lauren Rogen]

We think you're wonderful.

[Craig]

Yes.

[Michelle]

So take your wife out.

[Seth Rogen]

Exactly. Take your wife out on the town in Miami. Lots of stuff to do there. Lots of good restaurants.

[Michelle]

Well, you guys are doing some great work. And, you know, thank you for sharing. Thank you for the investment that you're making. Thank you for your vulnerability and your honesty because that's also, you know, normalizing the issue as much as it is not normal and will never feel normal, but talking about it and letting people know that they're not alone. And again, you know, I just want to say. Yeah, let's not be afraid of humor in the midst of this. I mean, it gets our families through charity.

[Lauren Rogen]

Through charity.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah. I mean, we found that that was like, at first we were very uncomfortable with the combination of comedy and Alzheimer's, honestly, and it felt very inorganic and. And then, yeah, we found that people coming and telling their stories and, And. And keeping a humorous perspective amidst all this is like, so cathartic and helpful and. And people like to laugh and can shift gears very easily and can contain both of those things at once. And so, yeah, humor. Humor is helpful. I don't know if it's the best medicine, but it's. It's.

[Michelle]

A good one.

[Craig]

Thank you guys for being here. This is.

[Seth Rogen]

Thank you so much.

[Michelle]

Everything. Yeah.

[Craig]

Safe travel.

[Michelle]

Yeah.

[Seth Rogen]

Yeah.

[Michelle]

Be well.

[Craig]

Thank you.