Fight For Your Dream Job with Victoria Monét

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Fight For Your Dream Job with Victoria Monét"

Podcast Information:

• Title: IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Melvin
• Host: Michelle Obama and Craig Melvin
• Episode: Fight For Your Dream Job with Victoria Monét
• Release Date: July 23, 2025

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Introduction

In this inspiring episode of IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Melvin, the hosts welcome three-time Grammy-winning songwriter and children's book author, Victoria Monét. The conversation delves deep into Victoria's journey in the music industry, her transition into motherhood, and the challenges of balancing a demanding career with family life.

Victoria Monet's Early Career

Victoria shares her initial foray into the entertainment world, emphasizing her passion for dance and performance from a young age.

• Early Passion for Dance:
  "I started with dance. It was a group sport that gave me confidence to perform and express myself." (07:42)

• Move to Los Angeles:
  At 19, while working as a bank teller in Sacramento, Victoria auditioned for a girl group inspired by a MySpace invitation. Despite financial uncertainties, she took a leap of faith. "I moved to LA with just me and a dream." (08:34)

From Girl Group to Songwriting

Victoria discusses the evolution of her career from being part of a girl group to becoming a successful songwriter.

• Signing with Motown:
  The group signed with Motown, fulfilling a childhood dream inspired by her grandmother's love for the label's music. "Signing with Motown felt like a dream come true, and I felt my grandmother's presence guiding me." (13:05)

• Transition to Songwriting:
  Facing challenges with an unfavorable record deal, Victoria pivoted to songwriting, collaborating closely with artists like Ariana Grande. "Writing with Ariana became a partnership and a profound friendship." (13:21)

Breakthrough with Ariana Grande

Victoria highlights her significant contributions to Ariana Grande’s career, including co-writing hits that resonated with millions.

• Collaborative Success:
  "Working with Ariana allowed me to refine my craft and build a lasting professional relationship." (13:28)

Transition to Artist and Motherhood

Victoria opens up about her decision to focus on her artistry while navigating the complexities of motherhood.

• Becoming a Parent:
  Victoria shares the timing of her pregnancy during the pandemic and its unexpected impact on her career. "Hazel, my daughter, became the biggest blessing during what felt like an intermission in my career." (19:57)

• Balancing Act:
  Discussing the emotional and professional challenges, Victoria emphasizes the importance of time management and a supportive co-parenting relationship. "Time management became crucial. I had to do what would take me 10 hours in just three." (25:05)

Challenges of Balancing Career and Family

The conversation delves into the societal pressures and personal struggles Victoria faced while managing her dual roles.

• Facing Discrimination and Support Issues:
  Victoria recounts a hurtful incident where a team member's presentation subtly encouraged her to abort her pregnancy. "The presentation ended with, 'What's the Rush?' It felt like an encouragement to get an abortion." (22:00)

• Resilience and Determination:
  Despite emotional setbacks, Victoria asserts her resolve to pursue motherhood and her career. "I'm gonna do this. It's my body, and I'm gonna make it work." (22:50)

Dealing with Burnout and Advice from Guests

Addressing the listener's question about burnout, Victoria and the hosts provide valuable insights and strategies to cope with professional and personal stress.

• Listener's Dilemma:
  A listener named Lily from Virginia shares her struggle with burnout despite her passion for teaching dance. "I dread meeting new people because I hate talking about my job." (41:25)

• Victoria's Advice:
  Victoria suggests reframing job descriptions to highlight purpose over title and emphasizes flexibility in career paths. "Instead of saying 'I’m a dance teacher,' say 'I help people manifest their true destiny.'" (42:52)

• Michelle Obama's Supportive Guidance:
  Michelle encourages self-care and reassessing one's career without shame. "Burnout doesn't mean you're on the wrong path. It might just mean you need to take a break." (59:18)

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with affirmations of support for Victoria and her daughter Hazel, highlighting the importance of perseverance, self-care, and adaptability in achieving one's dreams.

• Victoria's Ongoing Projects:
  Victoria hints at new music projects following her book tour, showcasing her continuous growth. "I’m locking away in the studio for the rest of the year. Exciting times ahead!" (70:30)

• Final Encouragement:
  The hosts extend heartfelt thanks to Victoria and reinforce the message of resilience and passion. "Keep showing up as a fabulous young woman, young mother, young professional." (69:45)

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Notable Quotes

1. Victoria Monet on Confidence through Dance:
   "Me developing my craft with dance first gave me the confidence to use my voice and start writing and singing." (07:42)

2. On Transitioning to Songwriting:
   "When you get to work with your friends, there's nothing like that." (13:21)

3. Handling Negative Feedback:
   "This is my body and I'm gonna make it work. I'm not scared of hard things. I can do hard things." (22:54)

4. Advice to Burnt-Out Professionals:
   "Burnout is okay. It's just a need to nurture yourself and keep moving forward." (60:13)

5. Victoria on Impact as a Dance Teacher:
   "Seeing my student dance for Kendrick Lamar reminds me of the difference we can make in people's lives." (67:28)

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Key Takeaways

• Pursuing Passion Requires Flexibility:
  Balancing career aspirations with personal life demands adaptability and resilience.

• Importance of Support Systems:
  A healthy co-parenting relationship and time management are crucial for maintaining both career and family.

• Navigating Burnout:
  Recognizing burnout as a natural part of any ambitious journey and implementing strategies to manage it is essential.

• Reframing Professional Identity:
  Describing one's role in a way that emphasizes purpose can alleviate stress and reignite passion.

• Impact Beyond Self:
  Engaging in meaningful work not only fulfills personal goals but also has a ripple effect on others' lives.

---

Timestamp Reference:

• 07:42
• 08:34
• 13:05
• 13:21
• 19:57
• 22:00
• 22:50
• 25:05
• 41:25
• 42:52
• 59:18
• 67:28
• 69:45
• 70:30

---

This episode offers a heartfelt exploration of Victoria Monét's journey, providing listeners with both inspiration and practical advice on pursuing dreams while managing life's inevitable challenges.

Transcript

[Victoria Monet]

I had a person on my team, though the intentions were good, really, really hurt my feelings because they made a PowerPoint presentation to me about how difficult it will be for me. So how much childcare is what?

[Craig Melvin]

Wait, this is somebody on your team?

[Victoria Monet]

Yeah. Ooh, yeah. And the finale of the presentation was, what's the Rush? So it felt like an encouragement to get an abortion.

[Craig Melvin]

W.

[Michelle Obama]

This episode is brought to you by Pine Sol and Chase Home Lending. Well, good afternoon.

[Craig Melvin]

How are you?

[Michelle Obama]

I'm doing great. I'm doing great. The sun is shining. Spring has arrived here in D.C. and this is one of the best times of the year here in the city. So glad to have you here.

[Craig Melvin]

You know what? I noticed? Being here, my allergies aren't bothering me.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, that's interesting, because this is allergy season here, so you must be taking care of yourself. You taking your medicine?

[Craig Melvin]

I haven't taken anything. I feel really good. I got a good night's sleep. Walked around the neighborhood a little bit last night after I finally got home from having dinner with you.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We had a good time.

[Craig Melvin]

So how are you doing?

[Michelle Obama]

I am doing pretty well. You know, as long as I'm still in that place. As long as my kids are good. Our kids are good. I'm doing good. I'm having fun. We're with this podcast. We have had some great guests. We got another great guest here with us today that we talked to, but I feel good, and I'm happy to be here with you. What's happening in Milwaukee? You driving around in your new.

[Craig Melvin]

I am driving around. I am driving around in my new Rivian. And for those of you who don't remember Rivian and gifted the two of us with nice vehicles, the R1s, to drive around, and I've been tooling around. We have officially made it our number one car to drive in the house.

[Michelle Obama]

That's a smart move. Smart move. It is a beautiful car, and it is easy to drive, and I have driven it just a little bit. I know that I'm gonna have some more time with it this summer. But you have been driving it more than I have.

[Craig Melvin]

I have, and I'm getting to know it a little bit better. And you know what my favorite feature is, other than not having to go to the gas station.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, Right. What is it?

[Craig Melvin]

Is the navigational system.

[Michelle Obama]

Okay. What's.

[Craig Melvin]

The screen is gigantic. So in my old man eyes, I can see it very clearly. And not only is it a big screen, but it is in 3D. And, you know I love me some 3D maps. So no, it's been. That's one of many features, but that's one of my favorite features and I'm.

[Michelle Obama]

Looking forward to tooling around.

[Craig Melvin]

Good, good. Well, you know, I got some real credibility points with my boys when I told them who our guest was gonna be on today.

[Michelle Obama]

Okay, so what did you, what did they say? What did you say and what did they say?

[Craig Melvin]

So you guys have to picture this. Picture us sitting at the kitchen table and our boys are not paying attention to what anything Kelly and I are talking about. Right.

[Michelle Obama]

Because they are 15 and they are.

[Craig Melvin]

15 and one's watching the basketball game and the other one is eating or something. 15 and 13. And the 13 year old is the youngest of four, so he's already cool and doesn't talk to anybody. So she said, so who's gonna be on this time? And I'm going through the whole thing. And I said, and then on the last day, the last person we're talking to is Victoria Monet. And the 13 year old goes like this. So for those of you in our audio folks who did, I just snapped my head around and looked at my sister. He, he looked at me and he said, now that's a quality guest. Quality. That's what he said to me. Quality.

[Michelle Obama]

Instead of everybody else we've talked to.

[Craig Melvin]

Yeah, that's a quality guest.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. Well, Victoria is a quality guest.

[Craig Melvin]

She is three time Grammy winner and songwriter and now a children's book author.

[Michelle Obama]

I know, I'm so excited to talk about that project.

[Craig Melvin]

Her debut book, Everywhere youe Are, is a heartfelt tribute to working parents which we have both been and their little ones. Inspired by her own journey as a parent. And it features her four year old daughter Hazel, who I guess you've met.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, yeah, she's a cutie Boots, for sure.

[Craig Melvin]

She's voicing the audiobook at 4 years old.

[Michelle Obama]

That's awesome. That is.

[Craig Melvin]

So without any further ado, can we see our good new friend here?

[Michelle Obama]

Come on in.

[Craig Melvin]

Victoria Bonet. So good to see you too.

[Michelle Obama]

Thank you for being here.

[Craig Melvin]

Nice to meet you.

[Michelle Obama]

Thanks for being on here and please.

[Victoria Monet]

Tell the children I said hello and thank you for calling me Quality.

[Michelle Obama]

I appreciate that compliment, quality. Because at 13, they know something about quality.

[Craig Melvin]

He doesn't say he, you know, he's a man of few words too.

[Victoria Monet]

I love that.

[Craig Melvin]

So for him to just say, okay, now that's a quality guest.

[Michelle Obama]

I love it.

[Victoria Monet]

Thank you.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, the last time we were together, we were trying to help the people Weren't we?

[Victoria Monet]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

Victoria joined me along with another with a wonderful group of celebrity supporters in Atlanta in the middle of this past election to try to get young people out to vote. And Victoria, you know, because we don't have a budget to fly people out. And so the celebrities that were involved cared, flew themselves out, got themselves out there and spoke passionately about the importance of voting. And again, Victoria, I just want to thank you for using your voice and your platform for something very, very important. Thank you so much. And you spoke. So this is the first time I heard you speaking.

[Victoria Monet]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

And you were brilliant.

[Victoria Monet]

Thank you so much.

[Michelle Obama]

You really were.

[Victoria Monet]

Thank you.

[Michelle Obama]

In addition to everything else, you are a phenomenal speaker. Thank you.

[Victoria Monet]

I appreciate that.

[Michelle Obama]

Speaking from your heart and, you know, just offering some wisdom at the same time.

[Victoria Monet]

So just want to make a difference.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll have to try again.

[Victoria Monet]

Yes.

[Craig Melvin]

Come on, Come on.

[Michelle Obama]

Truly, maybe now we know. But it's great to have you here with us.

[Victoria Monet]

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here and chat with you guys.

[Craig Melvin]

Yeah, terrific.

[Michelle Obama]

So you're living in la.

[Victoria Monet]

LA is home.

[Michelle Obama]

Has it been home for a while?

[Victoria Monet]

Since 2009, I've lived in LA, so it's been quite some time. Like my full adult life. All of the restaurants and parties, like everything has been LA based. But I'm from Sacramento.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Victoria Monet]

Family from Mobile, Alabama.

[Michelle Obama]

Because everybody's from Alabama in the end. Yeah.

[Victoria Monet]

Apparently. I just met Dr. Sharon and she was telling me she's from Mobile and she knows my family. I'm like, what a small, big world.

[Michelle Obama]

It's like that's how it is. Small amongst black folks for sure.

[Victoria Monet]

Right.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, we want our listeners to really get to know you. You know, everybody knows you. A megastar now, but it came from somewhere. Right. So tell us about your, you know, your path to here. I know it's a long one, so I'll let you pick the parts of it, but you've been dancing, singing, writing for a long, long time.

[Victoria Monet]

Yeah, it's been a passion of mine since I was really young. I actually started with dance. I feel like as an only child, that gave me the confidence because it's a group sport. You get to be on stage but you're not by yourself. You're like, you can either fade into the background or take the center stage. So me developing my craft with dance first gave me the confidence to use my voice and start writing and singing. And I moved to LA off of an audition for a girl group in 2009. So I was working as a bank teller at the time in Sacramento.

[Michelle Obama]

How old were you?

[Victoria Monet]

I was 19.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, wow.

[Victoria Monet]

Yeah. And I got an email on giving my age away. MySpace. So from you're talking to us, no.

[Craig Melvin]

Matter what age, you can't be. You're way younger than me.

[Victoria Monet]

Yeah. So one of the first social media experiences I feel like was MySpace. And so I got an email for an audition. So I went on the audition. I asked my friends if I should go or not because it didn't financially make sense. But I was like, I'm gonna take the chance. So I ended up making it into this girl group, which prompted us to move to LA within two weeks after that audition. So I just packed everything on up.

[Michelle Obama]

And us being who?

[Victoria Monet]

There was two other girls in the girl group.

[Michelle Obama]

So you on your own solo as no parents, no anything? No.

[Victoria Monet]

Yeah, just me and a dream.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. What did your parents think?

[Victoria Monet]

My mother was like, this is. She was worried, but I was like, mom, I'm serious. It felt very much like a sister act. I just wanna dance. I just wanna do this. So I was on my way.

[Craig Melvin]

Wait, how old were you when you realized that you. I know you did the dance and all of that, but when did it hit you like, okay, I wanna be a performer as a profession?

[Victoria Monet]

Yeah. I was watching this movie with my grandma. I don't remember what age exactly, but I wanna say probably like 8, 9.

[Craig Melvin]

Really?

[Victoria Monet]

Where Halle Berry was playing Dorothy Dandridge.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, yeah.

[Victoria Monet]

Yes. And I was like, I wanna be a triple threat. I love the, you know, the challenges that she's facing and overcoming. I wanna be singing and dancing and musicals. And I used to love movies like Chitty Chitty Bang Bang or.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, yeah. Okay.

[Victoria Monet]

Yeah. Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

Turner School Classic Channel.

[Victoria Monet]

Yes. Dick Van Dyke.

[Michelle Obama]

Dick Van Dyke is my favorite.

[Victoria Monet]

He's amazing. He's am. And, like, just such a classic.

[Michelle Obama]

You like the old school vibes?

[Victoria Monet]

I do.

[Michelle Obama]

I do.

[Victoria Monet]

Even musically, I, like. I tend to go vintage, so, like,'60s-70s Motown, and, you know, Temptations were one of my favorites.

[Michelle Obama]

Did you get introduced to that through your family, or is that just your old soul taste?

[Victoria Monet]

Well, my mom actually told me that she thinks I was here before because somehow I knew the lyrics, but I think that just came from what my family was playing. Like, when we get together with our family reunions or events, like, it was just a good time with that type of music or pool parties. Like, that was the kind of stuff that was playing that. And then, like, 90s R&B. But it just sounded so good. I feel like I really connected with live instrumentation. Like people playing horns and strings and flutes. Like, it just all sounded so beautiful. So when, you know, in the digital era, where people can make music on a laptop and you can play the keys, but be having the sound come out as a guitar, I really value people who have spent the time mastering true instrumentation.

[Michelle Obama]

So did you come from a musical family? A talented family. What's that DNA?

[Victoria Monet]

My mom sang and danced. She definitely danced around the house while she was cleaning. She was actually listening to Uncle Luke. Sorry, Mom. And my grandma was listening to the oldies. So it just reminds me so much of a Sunday morning cleaning the house. It just feels so much. I feel so much nostalgia. My grandpa played saxophone and harmonica and my grandma sang opera. So it's like my aunt sang. So it was around. But no one had pursued it as a career. It just kind of felt like I viewed it as an extracurricular activity. You can do but go to college and do. The other way to pursue a career was to the way that they wanted me to go, which I understood, but.

[Michelle Obama]

So you were the first one in the family to really break out and say, I'm doing this the crazy way. I'm getting on the bus out of here, going to the big city with my girl group.

[Victoria Monet]

Yeah. So from there, so many twists and turns. I was writing, I became a songwriter because I was still in a record deal that wasn't necessarily favorable.

[Michelle Obama]

That sounds familiar, that sound. That is the story of everybody's first deal. Right.

[Victoria Monet]

It's like, I guess you gotta get jumped in or something. I don't know. But yeah. So I had to find my way out of that and take the songwriting path. And that's how I ended up gaining more success as a songwriter first and then transitioning into artistry.

[Craig Melvin]

So wait, what happened to the girl band, the girl group?

[Victoria Monet]

Oh, it got dropped.

[Michelle Obama]

It got dropped.

[Victoria Monet]

We actually got signed to Motown, which was so exciting because we. It was a dream listening to the music with my grandma. So I was so excited. And she. She had actually passed the year that I moved to la, so I felt like she had her hand on that.

[Michelle Obama]

What was your first songwriting break? When did it hit for you as a songwriter?

[Victoria Monet]

I had a lot of success with Ariana Grande, writing alongside her since her first album. And then she. We just got really, really close. She named her tour after a song that I had written with her called Honeymoon Avenue. And then we just. That we were musical soulmates and we just kept going. It became a friendship and A partnership and so much fun. You know, when you get to work with your friends, there's nothing like that, you know, So I had a lot of success with her as a songwriter.

[Michelle Obama]

Yes, we're learning that.

[Victoria Monet]

It's beautiful. It's so beautiful. Just have family, business or business with friends. When you look around at the people surrounding you, you want to be inspired by them and be able to bring them up with you. Ye.

[Craig Melvin]

In this next segment, presented by our friends at Chase Home Lending, we'll discuss what it's like to turn dreams into doorsteps. Every home has a story, and every homeowner has faced unexpected challenges along the way. From financial hurdles to finding the perfect neighborhood. Chase is here to demystify the journey and make home ownership a more attainable goal.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, I wish our parents had had that growing up.

[Craig Melvin]

I know, I know. You know, you know, we started out in a, what would be called a co op or a project and Parkway Garden homes. And then we, or they rented. We rented and we lived next to our grandparents. Our grandparents who rented. I mean, at that point nobody was a homeowner.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, yeah.

[Craig Melvin]

And then our great aunt Robbie moved to South Shore and bought a home.

[Michelle Obama]

She and her husband, because they, they were older couple, they never had their own children. Robbie was a teacher. Terry, her husband, had a good retirement plan as a Pullman porter, a good pension. So they were the first people that we knew of that owned their home.

[Craig Melvin]

Yeah. And they were kind enough to allow us to rent the upper floor of a two family house.

[Michelle Obama]

Two family home.

[Craig Melvin]

Yeah. And that was really our first taste of being around people who were homeown.

[Michelle Obama]

And living above someone as renters. Right. And we were little kids living above these two older folks.

[Craig Melvin]

So we had to be careful after a certain time. I wanted to be quiet, didn't want to go stomping around, running around and.

[Michelle Obama]

Couldn'T have a dog.

[Craig Melvin]

Couldn't. And I know you wanted a dog. I know you always say mom didn't want a dog, but I know if you had wanted a dog, you would have gotten a dog.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, yeah.

[Craig Melvin]

But they were allergic to dogs, so they didn't want to have a dog.

[Michelle Obama]

And I always dreamed I used to beg dad, can we buy our own home? Because I wanted stairs, right?

[Craig Melvin]

Yes, you wanted a second floor bedroom. I remember that.

[Michelle Obama]

But it was something that they were a little cautious about. Very cautious about.

[Craig Melvin]

And dad used to say, I don't wanna be house poor. And at the time he would explain that having a mortgage was a tough thing. And then later in Life. We figured out that was a great way to build wealth.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. Yeah. We started building our careers and realizing what our parents missed.

[Craig Melvin]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm glad we figured it out. And thanks to Chase Home Lending for sponsoring this segment. They understand that buying a home is a journey and having the right support makes all the difference. Chase is here to help with smart digital tools and expert guidance so you can make informed decisions with confidence. Dreaming of a home? Ready to take that next step? Connect with a lending advisor [e-mail] start and start turning your homeownership dreams into a reality. Member FDIC Equal housing opportunity.

[Michelle Obama]

So then you decide. Okay, I've written a lot of hits for a lot of people. Now it's my turn.

[Victoria Monet]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

When did you go from writing to writing for yourself? And how old were you when that happened? And. Cause I'm trying to get the timeline too, because you're still a baby in my eyes.

[Victoria Monet]

Thank you. Well, I think that once I had. Well, I was. Let's start by saying I was always writing for myself in the background. It just wasn't lucrative. So I needed to take on different job titles within music in order to make ends meet. So I started to become a vocal producer and I learned how to engineer in pro tools so that I can record myself and others. And those were the types of jobs within music that I could get money on the same day or week. As far as songwriting, it's a bit of a journey because you don't get income until the song nine months after the song comes out, which is still not right away. Cause you have to, you know, artists are working on an album maybe for a year at a time. So if you wrote a song in January, maybe it'll come out next January. And then nine months from there, you will see some royalties. So I needed to find positions that would pay, you know, quickly. So I ended up doing that.

[Michelle Obama]

So you just had your hustle game?

[Victoria Monet]

Hustling. Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

That's good because it's interesting because a lot of people want to go into music. They, you know, they don't understand the lag time where the money is actually made. You know, they just see the end result. But being the star isn't always the thing that pays.

[Victoria Monet]

Not always shiny either.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, yeah.

[Victoria Monet]

But.

[Michelle Obama]

But.

[Victoria Monet]

When you're able to do what you love, sometimes that money doesn't matter. I didn't need to be rich and successful. I just needed to eat. And I would do it a million times over because I just love what I do. But it is nice to also be rewarded with even more than you anticipate for what you love to do.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. Yeah. And then came Hazel.

[Victoria Monet]

Yes. He was a pandemic baby. There was nothing to do, so. Yeah. So. But I feel like that was the perfect timing. It was almost like there was an intermission in my career, too, to be able to let my body go through that and then, you know, come back to self. And she's been the biggest blessing. It was almost like I had these preconceived notions that, you know, having a child would suspend career or make things even more difficult. But God just was like, nope. But it's been so fun.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. Yeah. Now there are so many women out there in the midst of their careers and, you know, where becoming a mother is stressful.

[Victoria Monet]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

Because they don't always know how it's gonna be received. Did you go through any of that because you were very young, in the middle of your career, and, of course, all kids are a blessing.

[Victoria Monet]

Right.

[Michelle Obama]

But, you know, did you have any fears, any doubts? Were you afraid at any point that definitely this pregnancy was gonna upend everything?

[Victoria Monet]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

Talk a bit about that.

[Victoria Monet]

So when I got pregnant, I was an independent artist. I was working with this company, working out of the uk. And when you're an artist, though, you're a human, you're technically the business. So to have to explain to someone who is a partner in your business that your business may slow down because of pregnancy is difficult. But it's also something that you're supposed to feel celebratory about because it's a blessing. And not everybody gets that opportunity that wants it. So you should be thankful. So it's a balance for me of being celebratory about it, but also kind of apologizing to my partners that it was a weird thing for me to try to navigate.

[Michelle Obama]

How'd you approach that conversation?

[Victoria Monet]

It was a zoom call.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, yes. Oh, yeah.

[Victoria Monet]

So it's like, just wanna let you know I'm pregnant. It was just, like. In retrospect, it was really, really disheartening. And I. I had a person on my team, though the intentions were good, really, really hurt my feelings because they made a PowerPoint presentation to me about how difficult it will be for me. So how much childcare is. What?

[Craig Melvin]

Wait, this is somebody on your team?

[Victoria Monet]

Yeah.

[Craig Melvin]

Ooh.

[Victoria Monet]

And the finale of the presentation was, what's the rush? So it felt like an encouragement to get an abortion.

[Michelle Obama]

Wow.

[Victoria Monet]

So that was really, really hurtful. And I walked out of that meeting.

[Michelle Obama]

And this was a meeting With a bunch of people.

[Victoria Monet]

Just me and this person.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, okay.

[Victoria Monet]

This particular meeting with just me and this person. And I walked out of that meeting with that same fight that I had when I left home. Like, I'm gonna not show you. Right. I'm gonna do this and it's my body and I'm gonna make it work. Even if it's hard. I'm not scared of hard things. I can do hard things. And yeah, it was very, very emotional. Especially in how old time were you.

[Michelle Obama]

When all this stuff's going on?

[Victoria Monet]

I want to say 32.

[Michelle Obama]

31.

[Victoria Monet]

32. And the pandemic.

[Michelle Obama]

You were grown, but still, you know.

[Victoria Monet]

Yeah. So to be apologizing for it felt like a big contradiction spiritually. But I know that the intention of the person wasn't to harm me. They just wanted to let me know how big of a decision it is to keep and also balance the expectations for what my career may or may not do after that. But I walked hand in hand with God. And it's amazing that one of my biggest songs is On My Mama because it's so full circle to my intention and purpose for having her.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, well, it adds a whole new level of meaning to the song. I mean, all of us are popping up and we think, yeah, it's like On My Mama, right?

[Victoria Monet]

You know? Yes, it's beautiful.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, it's so important for you to share that because there's so many of us as women out here working, trying to keep families together, hold on to our careers. So many women will be able to identify with that fear, with the pressure, you know, to doubt the path that you're in, even something as precious as motherhood. Because a lot of industries don't make space for mothers.

[Victoria Monet]

Right.

[Michelle Obama]

So how did you make space for your mothering in your career? Because you didn't lose, you know, things might have been slow, but how did you. How did you do it? How did you manage to manage that balance? And I know you're still managing it.

[Victoria Monet]

But yes, I think one of the best things that I was able to conquer is time management. And luckily I had put in 10,000 plus hours before I had her. So I felt like I was able to do what would have took me 10 hours in three hours because I had to worked on my craft so much so I had to exercise that muscle. And also having a healthy relationship with my child's father, even though we aren't together anymore, having a healthy co parenting relationship, so that she feels like even when I'm not there, there's someone who loves her just as much right next to her.

[Craig Melvin]

I'm glad you brought that up because for us men and partners out there, how have you been able to keep such a healthy relationship even after you guys have broken up? Because as a divorced person, it doesn't always turn out that way. So can you give us some advice as partners on how to handle that?

[Michelle Obama]

Talk to the men.

[Victoria Monet]

Talk to. Okay, so fellas, please keep as much information off the Internet as you can. As much negative. If it's positive, let the world know. But if it's negative and if it's critique, just please make sure that happens directly to who it needs to happen with versus the embarrassment of the world. Having to know and with social media makes it so much so easy to make impulse posts, impulsive posts, or for news to travel or screenshots to go up. And I just feel like the world doesn't delete your feelings and get over your feelings the way you do. So maybe you may feel that way today and then two years from now you guys may be best friends, but the world is still hanging on to what you said about that person. It's like, you know, if you tell your friends or your mom that you got in an argument and your mom just never forgives that person.

[Craig Melvin]

Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about.

[Victoria Monet]

And sometimes you have to deal with it directly instead of letting everybody know every negative. Because we are protective beings and we want to protect the people we love. And sometimes you know, everything it took for you to make up with that person, you're not communicating those things with the people that you let know about the flaws.

[Craig Melvin]

Right.

[Victoria Monet]

So sometimes it's just better to talk directly to the person or to a therapist only.

[Michelle Obama]

How specifically has Hazel's father helped you with the balance? Because there are some men who are like, I don't do this, I don't do that talk about. Because I also think that's what kind of advice you're thinking about that men.

[Craig Melvin]

Don'T know the next question. Because we don't necessarily know how to support a woman whose career is as big as yours and as busy as yours.

[Victoria Monet]

Yes, that's a really, really great question. I feel maybe the answer is a lot of patience and understanding and empathy. It's almost like when I'm asking him to watch Hazel for a career move. I have to be able to have that same grace. It's not a one way street. So if he wants to make a move or just be outside for a night and he wants to Go out. I have to have that grace and say, yes, I'll watch her, even though I know he may be outside, meet somebody else. You know, it's like all of those things are in consideration, but it just really takes a lot of patience and grace prayer, great communication, making sure that you are considerate of how you're saying something versus what you're saying. And I honestly, I want to ask him how he does it as well, because it is not. I'm seeing so much chaos in our community regarding children and the separation of parents. And we all know that it's quite normal these days for things not to last. So how is it that our community can better navigate those hard moments?

[Craig Melvin]

Yeah, you know, well, it's interesting you said you want to ask him how he does it, because it sounds. Before you said that, I was thinking that you guys got together, had a meeting and said, okay, here are the things that we need to go over to make this work. But it sounds like this was more trial and error or.

[Victoria Monet]

Well, we did say that we were gonna stay offline on anything that would negatively affect either of our images and that Hazel could eventually read and see. So that was the main agreement. But beyond that, the daily back and forth. I feel like he should probably have a platform to speak on it because I know dads around the world are going through this and they don't know how to balance their emotions or their maybe potential rage and disappointment that the relationship didn't work out or jealousy or financial burdens.

[Michelle Obama]

And being single parents on the other end, because when they have the child assuming and hopefully they're in. Involved. Yes, there are going to be huge moments where they're operating as a single dad.

[Victoria Monet]

Right.

[Michelle Obama]

You know, which we, you know, a lot of women understand that, that balance, but where men who, when they are able to talk about those challenges and how are they finding that balance? Men don't talk about that.

[Victoria Monet]

Yeah.

[Craig Melvin]

This episode of IMO is brought to you by Cologuard, a non invasive colon cancer screening test. As it stands, colon cancer is on the rise in people under 50, which is why the American Cancer Society recommends that if you're at average risk, you begin screening at 45. Even if you live a healthy lifestyle and don't have symptoms, no one is at low risk for colon cancer. We want to make sure our listeners know that colon cancer can be treatable in nine out of 10 people. But the key here is that it has to be caught early. With the Cologuard test, you can take control of your colon cancer screening through a prescription based test with none of the prep that's required of a colonoscopy. Not only is the Cologuard test effective for colon cancer screening, but it can even detect pre cancer. And in addition to its convenience, the Cologuard test is also affordable. Most insured patients find they pay nothing out of pocket with zero downtime, no special preparation and a screening test that's delivered right to your door. Don't let your health take a backseat. So if you're 45 or older and at average risk, ask your healthcare provider about screening for colon cancer with the Cologuard test. You can also request a Cologuard prescription [e-mail] podcast. The Cologuard test is intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Do not use a Cologuard test if you have adenomas, have inflammatory bowel disease and certain hereditary syndromes, or a personal or family history of colorectal cancer. The Cologuard test is not a replacement for colonoscopy in high risk patients. Cologuard test performance in adults ages 45 to 49 is estimated based on a large clinical study of patients 50 and older. False positives and false negatives can occur. Cologuard is available by prescription only. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Financial security isn't just about the here and now. It's about the future. That's why we love what Progressive is doing to help people attain, maintain and build wealth through homeownership. For over 80 years, Progressive has led with the belief that insurance should do more than just protect it should propel people forward. Their commitment to not only helping more first generation homeowners stay protected, but also support communities through Progressive's Down Payment Assistance Program, the UP Payment program, which will help drive real impact, making the dream of home ownership more attainable for everyone. You know, my wife Kelly and I are currently in the process of redoing our bathroom. We just started out and haven't done the demolition yet, but we know that this will add to the value of our house. So thank you Progressive for helping families plan ahead and for sponsoring our show. Visit progressive.com OpenTheHouse to learn more this Back to School season. Spend less on your kids with Amazon. I remember when my wife Kelly and I would be running around to a million different stores chasing down spiral notebooks, lunchboxes and that one specific calculator that somehow every math teacher requires and Look, I love my kids, but I do not love fighting over the last pack of highlighters in a crowded store at 7pm on a Tuesday. That's why I love Amazon. Amazon has everything for back to school. Backpacks, pencils, clothes, snacks, and even those dry erase markers the teachers secretly hoard. All delivered fast right to my doorstep. One click, no stress. Boom. And the best part, I can shop from my couch with my now 15 year old and 13 year old, I grab their school supply list and I'm all set. Now, instead of running around town stressed out, I get to actually spend the last days of summer with my kids. We're doing movie nights, bike rides, and even, dare I say, back to school fashion shows in the living room. Parents, do yourself a favor. Go to Amazon, get your back to school checklist done in like five minutes while saving a few bucks. So remember, with Amazon's low back to school prices, just spend less on your kids because every dollar you don't spend on them is a dollar you haven't spent on them. So when Hazel comes to you and says, hey, Mom, I want to be a performer, she has said that already.

[Michelle Obama]

Okay.

[Victoria Monet]

Oh my gosh.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, she's already done some voiceover work on the book.

[Victoria Monet]

Yes, yes. And she Also, in 2024, along with my first Grammy nominations as an artist, she became the first, the youngest Grammy nominee in history. So it's like God is really just nailing in the idea that everything that you wanted is tenfold with. With your child by your side and you're doing things that you're supposed to do and making a difference in her life. And you will be rewarded in that way.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, and your current project, your book.

[Victoria Monet]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

Everywhere youe Are.

[Victoria Monet]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

Tell us about the motivation behind writing this book.

[Craig Melvin]

We've got a copy.

[Michelle Obama]

We've got a copy of the book right here.

[Victoria Monet]

Yes. So the inspiration really is to combat children with separation anxiety and parents with parent guilt who have to balance work and a family life. And I feel like that's about everybody. You know, I was reading something somewhere where was explaining why children enjoy peekaboo as children. It's because when you disappear, they actually view you as gone. So it's like you're doing this magic trick, like you're disappearing and coming back. So I started to think about how, well, if I'm actually gone, what is she thinking? And for the hours, eight hours a day that I'm working or any parent is working, what does she feel? So I just wanted to make something tangible that a parent can read or an uncle or an aunt can read that doesn't live out of in town.

[Michelle Obama]

How do you combat your guilt.

[Victoria Monet]

Sometimes?

[Michelle Obama]

Cause I'm just assuming you have it. Because we all do.

[Victoria Monet]

100%. 100%. I think one explaining things to her helps me.

[Michelle Obama]

Cause aren't kids really smart?

[Victoria Monet]

They understand a lot more than sometimes we give them credit for. And I will. A lot of times when parents say to their child they're going to work, but they're doing it for the child. My approach is, I'm doing this for you and for me. So that she knows mommy has dreams and she has her own identity too. And she can be proud to know that none of that was given up on because of her existence. Because sometimes the story goes that we say I gave up everything for you. And that although, yeah, it pressurizes the love and the capacity. And so the child feels guilty instead and the parent feels resentful to their motherhood or fatherhood. And so I just wanted to change that narrative a bit and say, you know what? I have dreams and I'm gonna go pursue them. And everything that I get from this pursuit, you will benefit from. But it's also my dream and I won't want to give up on that for me. And when you get a dream, I don't want you to give up on that for you.

[Michelle Obama]

And amazingly, they understand. How do you get the sense that Hazel gets it? And I know it's, you know, she's gonna go through her phases, but as a mom, you know her and you know what she's understanding and what she isn't.

[Victoria Monet]

I think that it came down to her reaction when I leave and. And her reaction when I get back is really, really helpful. So at the beginning it was lots of tears. And that separation is so difficult. Like that first day of school, you're like, I sat in the car that day and I was like, am I doing the right thing? She doesn't technically need school right now because like, maybe I'll just wait till she. And she actually is in kindergarten. She was two at the time. But I needed her to have some social skills. Cause she was a pandemic baby. So she was like, I don't like anybody with my kids. So I needed her to learn more.

[Michelle Obama]

You need to break this now.

[Victoria Monet]

Yes. Yeah, it was important to do.

[Michelle Obama]

You need some friends, little two year old?

[Victoria Monet]

Please, please. Y' all go have your conversations. But that first day I was like, I don't know if I'm. This is right. It felt so heavy and Then she realizes that she's autonomous and independent and she can have a great day. Whether or not mommy's smiling in her face or whether or not mommy gives her or lollipop, she can create it on her own. So knowing that she has that confidence was helpful to know that it's okay to give some distance and come back, give some opportunity to be missed and come back.

[Michelle Obama]

Create some emotional resilience.

[Victoria Monet]

That's right.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Victoria Monet]

Yeah. That's great.

[Michelle Obama]

We are grateful to you and Hazel. Thank you for making it happen. That's right.

[Victoria Monet]

Thank you.

[Craig Melvin]

And this week, you know, on imo, we have a question from one of our listeners. And so this is a perfect time to pivot to that. And our question today is from Lily, who lives in Virginia.

[Victoria Monet]

Hey, Lily.

[Michelle Obama]

Hey, Lily.

[D]

Hi, Michelle and Craig. I'm in my late 20s and have been doing something I absolutely love since I had my first job at age 16, teaching dance. I have taught dance every year since and still love it just as much. I did all my undergrad projects on dance, and after Covid, I earned my master's in dance education. I am now at my first full time job at a nonprofit doing what I love every day, creating curricula and teaching dance. I've been here for just over two years. As much as I love this work, I'm also extremely stressed out and anxious. My job has begun to take such a mental and emotional toll on me that I dread meeting new people because I know the question, what do you do? Will come up. For some reason, I now hate telling people about my work because it stresses me out all over again when I'm not there. I try my hardest not to think about it. I have an amazing therapist that I've been working on this with for quite a while, but I'm still confused about why I dread talking about the job I've always felt so passionately for. How normal is this? Does this just mean that I'm burnt out or is this a sign that this work is no longer for me? Have you ever felt this worn out by your work? And if so, how did you manage to keep going? Thank you.

[Craig Melvin]

Now there is. We have not had a question so perfect for our guests than this one.

[Victoria Monet]

Yes, true. I understand it completely. Lily. I would say I feel like there's a couple layers to this question. One is the anticipation of the question, what do you do? And the answer being a description of your job versus the purpose of your job. So if the question comes, I would maybe reframe the answer as I help People manifest their true destiny. I help people perfect their dream and their craft. I help people get better. Instead of saying I am a dance teacher, you know, like that title, just maybe reframing that. And then the other layer I think to the question is two things can be true at once. You can love what you do, but it can also be really hard and draining. You can love the person you're with, but they can also get on your nerves, you know, so it's okay to change, change what you do if that's what you feel like you should do, and take some space away from it. I think if dance, if saying you're a dance teacher doesn't feel good right now and, and it's been since you're 16, that's okay to try something else because your 16 year old dream, you've been through so many versions of yourself since then, so it's okay not to have the exact same vision for yourself. And maybe then dance teaching can become something you do as an extracurricular activity versus your sole job or sole income. So it's possible to have a bit of a plot twist. And then if, if it's still something, if it's something that you miss, you may return. Life can take you through so many twists and turns and different journeys, and maybe sometimes it could be your gut telling you, hey, let's try something else for a little bit. And that's completely okay. Your job doesn't have to be your identity forever.

[Craig Melvin]

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[Victoria Monet]

You know, I relate to it as a songwriter as well, because when I started, I was an artist moving to la and then I got a lot of success from songwriting. So everybody who met me was like, oh, the songwriter, the songwriter, the songwriter. Until I did something else more than I did the other thing that they recognize me as that. Oh, the artist, the artist. It's like any job, if you meet somebody and they say, oh, yeah, I'm, for example, a janitor, they're gonna realize that that's what you are. But then until you become a teacher and your teaching outweighs the time that you spend as a janitor, then they will identify you as a teacher. So it just becomes what you spend most of your time doing. And that can always change. You don't have to remain the same person that you introduced yourself as to anybody.

[Craig Melvin]

Now, Victoria, did you ever. I mean, you were so focused on becoming an artist or a performer or however you want to label it, Were you ever embarrassed to say that's what you were or that's who you wanted to be?

[Victoria Monet]

I wouldn't say embarrassed, but also. But more so. What is the word? It felt like an ambitious statement. Like, inside, people may be like, yeah, okay.

[Craig Melvin]

Oh, you didn't want to sound like you were bragging.

[Michelle Obama]

It's like, my husband, I want to be president of the United States. It's like, oh, you might want to keep that to yourself, honey. Oh, that's so nice. You want to be president.

[Victoria Monet]

Exactly. That is that. Or like, when someone's like, I want to play basketball, and I'm going to be the best basketball player ever.

[Michelle Obama]

And you're like, okay, I'm going to play in the NBA. You're surrounded by.

[Craig Melvin]

I am surrounded by people who do that. But I will say, to Lily's point, when, see, I'm so old, there was not the Internet, so I didn't grow up wanting to be an NBA player. It sort of just developed. But even as I was heading in that direction, I never wanted to tell people I was a basketball player. So I understand.

[Michelle Obama]

And why was that?

[Craig Melvin]

Because I didn't want to be pigeonholed in. Oh, he's just a basketball player.

[Victoria Monet]

Okay.

[Craig Melvin]

Now, I don't know how many people have that feeling now, because basketball players are making more money than most people. But at the time, I really felt self conscious about basketball playing being my job.

[Victoria Monet]

Did you feel like it was because the stigma around basketball players were that they weren't something else? Like maybe not educated or not?

[Craig Melvin]

That is exactly it. That is exactly it. And I had relatives in my family who thought that basketball playing was a waste of time, too. So they were like, why'd you point.

[Michelle Obama]

To me when you said that?

[Craig Melvin]

Because you're the only relative in the room. That's why she got nervous. She probably was thinking the same thing. No, but I had relatives who would be like, well, is that all you do? You know? And so I really dandy used to say that our paternal grandfather would never talk to me and never talked to me about sports.

[Victoria Monet]

Oh, wow.

[Craig Melvin]

Because he thought that the only thing he had to talk to us about was education and learning. And as a young black man, and I saw him do this to my uncles, like, you know, he didn't meet them where they were. He wanted them to rise up to what his expectation of them was.

[Victoria Monet]

Yeah.

[Craig Melvin]

And I'm sure my parents didn't do that, But I felt that in society, so that it wasn't until I got drafted, literally drafted, that I said, all right, I'm a basketball player. Right. Like, this was a real thing now validated by that. So I was wondering if you ever had that in the music business.

[Victoria Monet]

I feel like, yeah, it was just. It's a feeling of people projecting their own doubts onto you when you say something so grand. Because I do feel like some of your dreams, your biggest dreams, you should sound a bit scary. And then you manifest those things, regardless. Which I think a lot of us have, you know, maybe even Lily would have, you know, I'm gonna be this amazing dance teacher. And people may have been like, okay, yeah, like, that's kind of a creative job. Like, maybe, you know, schooling is. You should pick a different major, you know, something else, you know, so, yeah, they.

[Craig Melvin]

They're picturing ahead how much money you could potentially make.

[Victoria Monet]

That's true, too.

[Michelle Obama]

And it's like, well, and people. A lot of traditional families, regular families who aren't in the arts or doing something that's Considered non traditional. And the arts still is considered a non traditional way of life. People don't understand the profession. They don't know that it is a profession.

[Victoria Monet]

Right.

[Michelle Obama]

They don't know how you can, you know, you just laid out a whole, you know, sub industry within the music business that, you know, like you said you wanted to write. But there are other jobs in the music profession. Producing. And you'll name them because I don't know them.

[Craig Melvin]

Working in the control room, control room, all that stuff.

[Michelle Obama]

You know, nobody knows that. You know, people know doctor and lawyer. Now you can be a day trader or, you know, I mean, some of the career titles are growing in people's minds. But the average mom and dad, the minute somebody says they want to go into theater or the arts or they want to be in music, you know, the light goes off in the eye of the parent. Right. And I wonder if Lily has experienced some of that because she's in a community or in a family of people where it's like a dancer. Like, what's that?

[Victoria Monet]

Right.

[Michelle Obama]

I don't understand that. So I don't even know. I don't know. I don't know what that means. And if she's experienced any of that, imagine how hard it must be for her to summon up the energy to continue something when it gets hard. Right. It's like it's easy to quit on yourself when you naturally get burnt out. You know, if it's not something that everybody around you is saying, I get it. I get you being a doctor, I understand the long hours. Boy, we're rooting for you.

[Victoria Monet]

Right.

[Michelle Obama]

But you're in the arts, you're dancing, you're acting, you're making music. I don't understand it.

[Victoria Monet]

Yeah. It just seems like. And naturally. So parents or people around would just want to hear something that has a guarantee.

[Michelle Obama]

Yes.

[Victoria Monet]

And with art there, or even sports, it's like, well, you need a backup plan. It's always a plan B situation because you could get injured. It's like all the projections of the plan. The worst case scenario. But I would love for us to obsess over the best case scenario. Like what if you are the best NBA player and what if you are the best dance teacher to ever live and you're able to provide scholarships and change people's lives with what they want to do and make healthier bodies by what you're doing because you're encouraging exercise through something that's more fun than running on the treadmill, potentially. Dance and performance. So it's tough Because I think we're just all being protective of each other and. And creating those shields. And sometimes those come in the form of limited beliefs and ideas of what you could do.

[Michelle Obama]

Have you ever experienced burnout yourself? Because that's also something that I think people assume, oh, you're doing something you love. It's your passion, it's something you've always wanted your whole life, and it's this, you know, it's this fun thing.

[Victoria Monet]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

And so if you burn out, that must mean it's all wrong.

[Victoria Monet]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

So I just wondered. You were doing the thing you've always loved.

[Victoria Monet]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

Have you experienced burnout in the course? And how did you handle. Have you handled it?

[Victoria Monet]

You know, it takes some fight. Just as with anything, you have to get through that storm to get to the rainbow every time and remember why it is that you're doing it. And then again, remind yourself of the gratitude that you should operate with because there are so many people that want to do what you do that can't. So that'll help you a bit in that morning where you're just so exhausted and you want to stop or sleep in or give up in the long term, but making sure that you realize that every day is an opportunity. And even when it's hard, if you just show up, even if you don't, your score for that day is a C. Like, you're not at your A game, but you showed up and you tried. That's how you get back on track. When I'm experiencing a writer's block or I'm just not inspired, I just have to show up. And sometimes I'm not showing up as my best self. But the fact that I showed up kind of. It's like training. It's that muscle strength and just. It's exercising resilience and not depending on inspiration because inspiration fades. It's depending on muscle memory. Yes. And muscle memory.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Victoria Monet]

So just showing up. And that's the same thing we have to do in anything in our friendship relationships, our personal relationships, everything that we do with some types of hardships. But that's just to juxtapose the times when it does feel good.

[Michelle Obama]

I'd say to Lily, based on that is like, first of all, burnout is okay. And I think you said this too, Victoria, but I think young people who are pursuing non traditional things, they should be aware that even if you're doing something you love, there will come a point in time when you may be burned out. You know, the people at the top of their game, you know, I'm sure Michael Jordan, I'm sure Steph Curry. I'm sure. You name it, I'm sure. You know, Beyonce. Yeah. Everybody, even when they're at the top of their game, they get burned out.

[Victoria Monet]

Right.

[Michelle Obama]

But that doesn't necessarily mean that this isn't the path for you. It just means that, you know, you may need to think about ways to nurture yourself.

[Victoria Monet]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

Which you'll have to do in any career. That's right. In any profession, in any aspect of life, is to learn how to keep moving forward. So maybe Lily isn't, you know, the burnout may not be a sign of anything other than, you know, just need a little rest. She's right. Maybe she needs a moment of rest and maybe she wants to take a moment of rest before she takes full steps away from the thing that she loves. So there may be, you know, there may be a process to this.

[Victoria Monet]

Right.

[Michelle Obama]

She may want to try for, you know, a month or so, you know, finding a way to reduce her schedule if she can.

[Victoria Monet]

Right.

[Michelle Obama]

Working in nonprofit, as somebody who worked in nonprofit, you usually don't have that kind of flexibility. Cause you're working with tight budgets and you're understaffed, you're working in tough communities. So, you know, that may be playing a role in her burnout is that she may be doing a dance class with 50 kids at a time. Right. So she may have real legitimate reasons to be burned out because she's working hard, especially if she's working in underserved communities.

[Victoria Monet]

That's right.

[Michelle Obama]

So instead of walking away, maybe she wants to find a minute to take some time off and then see what that feels like. You know, she might need to give herself a minute to miss it before she makes a full blown statement about, this isn't for me. But she may go away for a week or a month and be happy with that and turn that in two months and three months. And. And as you said, it's okay if she looks up in six months or a year or even shorter and says, I think I need to step away for a bit longer. You know, that's just the process of figuring yourself out, whether in career or in life. That's right. When I was came out of law school, I went into a big corporate firm because I went to Harvard and had a lot of debt. And that's what you did. You became a big, a big corporate lawyer. Right. I was in there for two years, pretty miserable. Not because of the place, but because the work was kind of soul crushing to Me. But I realized I hadn't tried anything else, and I left. And I started working in city government and public service, and each job, while it paid less was more interesting. You know, it had me in community. It had me working with people. So that year turned into two years, and then. And then that job went from working for the deputy chief of staff to working in planning and development. And before you know it, I was away from law. I've never gone back.

[Victoria Monet]

Right.

[Michelle Obama]

I mean, so sometimes it. But it helped that I stepped away for a minute, and maybe Lily wants to try that.

[Craig Melvin]

Yeah, that's good advice.

[Victoria Monet]

That's really great.

[Craig Melvin]

Yeah, that's good advice.

[Victoria Monet]

That leap of faith and bravery, sometimes that will take you on your supposed path.

[Craig Melvin]

Yeah. Yeah. And that's not to say, Lily, that what you feel like is your passion isn't your passion. Right.

[Michelle Obama]

That's right.

[Craig Melvin]

It's just, be flexible enough. If you're burnt out, be flexible enough to try something else, because you can always come back to your passion. And that's a great point. And it's. Misha and I have both done the same thing. You know, we.

[Victoria Monet]

We.

[Craig Melvin]

My mom used to joke, you all went to all these fancy schools, and you end up making less and less money each job you take.

[Victoria Monet]

Why, thank you.

[Craig Melvin]

It's like, yeah, that's a good point, Mom. That's a good point. But she never. She was always very supportive, but she said it sort of.

[Michelle Obama]

Because it was true.

[Craig Melvin]

Because it was very true.

[Victoria Monet]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

Another pay cut, huh?

[Victoria Monet]

Yeah.

[Craig Melvin]

Meesh did it a little more than I did. I went from. From Wall street trader to assistant basketball coach, so everybody thought I was having a nervous breakdown, but I was really. I was doing what Lily was doing. I figured out, ah, this is my passion. I want to try it. And off to the races I went. So, yeah, this is. You all have some good stuff. I have some good notes.

[Victoria Monet]

You took notes?

[Craig Melvin]

I took notes. I took notes because Lily's. She had a lot of stuff going on here. But the first thing that I took down, Victoria, was what you said about talking about what you do, not what the job is.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, I like that a lot.

[Craig Melvin]

That was really good. That's. You know, I mean, it's not that she's ashamed of it, but help people understand that what being a dance teacher is and does for young people, for old people, for the community. I mean, that's great advice, Lily. So I think you should really listen to that. And then, Meesh, you went straight for the Explore your. Why. That's her thing. We ought to get some T shirts with Explore youe. Why? Actually, yeah, because that's really good. Okay.

[Michelle Obama]

All right. Team T shirts.

[Victoria Monet]

Let me get one of those, please.

[Craig Melvin]

And then, just because folks don't understand your career doesn't mean that you're on the wrong track. And this will get back to Marianne Robinsonism. Why are you worried about what everybody's thinking? But that's hard in this day and age. It was hard for us when, you know, 50 years ago. Right. But it's really hard for you. All because of the social media and everybody's, like, rating everybody and liking everybody.

[Victoria Monet]

And talking about liking and commenting.

[Craig Melvin]

It's a barrage of grading. So you're trying to get good grades. You know, that's what I say about these young people. They're trying to get good grades all the time. And, Lily, you don't have to get a good grade if you know what you want to do and if you know you're working hard, that's the best part of it. The process is the best part. Enjoy that. So that's what I gleaned from you two experts here.

[Victoria Monet]

I love that. I just want to add, too, because I'm reminded of my own path and what my dance teachers did for me. She changed how I felt about arriving at school, how I felt about my body, and how I should take care of my body. She introduced the class to yoga, and then I became a dance teacher. I didn't mention while I was a bank teller, I was also teaching dance at two different studios.

[Michelle Obama]

You left that part out at two different studios?

[Craig Melvin]

Cause we heard the bank teller part.

[Victoria Monet]

So two different dance studios. And I just saw one of my students, his name is Kita, dancing for Kendrick Lamar.

[Michelle Obama]

Wow.

[Victoria Monet]

He was six years old when I was teaching him, and now he's on stage with Kendrick in a stadium.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, he did the Super Bowl.

[Victoria Monet]

He just. He's on tour with him.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, wow.

[Victoria Monet]

Him and Sza. So to see. Sometimes it's re inspiring to see the difference you can make in people's lives and just knowing. Knowing even in the unknown that you are able to help and change someone's whole trajectory by what you're doing. So that's why just really using.

[Michelle Obama]

The.

[Victoria Monet]

Purpose as the answer versus the actual job title would probably be a helpful reminder.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, yeah. We just. Lily, stay encouraged.

[Victoria Monet]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

You know, and you're just in your 20s, and, you know, you have time to be so many different things. I just want Lily and all young people out there to know. It just feels like as we get questions from young people. There's so much pressure to feel like they're supposed to have all the answers at a time when I'm 60 and I'm still like, I don't know nothing. So I want our young listeners and the parents and friends of young people who are struggling with their why and feeling like they're off course when they've just started. It's like, be easier on yourself. And understand that there are many opportunities to recreate yourself and to keep growing. You're gonna have to. That's the fun part of life, is that there are many chapters and there's no right answer. So I want Lily to stay encouraged, but to take care of herself. So she's feeling burnt out. Find a way to get a break so that she can think clearly. Because what it is hard to do is make determinations, you know, sensible determinations about what you want for your life when you're not at your best mental state.

[Victoria Monet]

That's right.

[Michelle Obama]

So. And that's true. No matter what you do, you gotta take care of your mental health. You gotta take care of your physical health so that you have some clarity to figure out the next moves.

[Victoria Monet]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

So brilliant.

[Craig Melvin]

Thanks, Lily from Virginia.

[Michelle Obama]

Thank you, Lily. Good luck.

[Victoria Monet]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

And Victoria. Thank you.

[Victoria Monet]

Thank you.

[Michelle Obama]

You are a little wise one. You know, at this table, you're a baby. I'm sorry. Even though you're grown and mature in the industry. Hold on to it. Hold on. But you are a wise baby.

[Victoria Monet]

Thank you so much.

[Michelle Obama]

I mean, it has really been a pleasure just to hear what's going on inside that head of yours.

[Craig Melvin]

Hazel is very lucky.

[Michelle Obama]

Yes, she is. I really appreciate she is.

[Craig Melvin]

And to have your tribe, too, because it sounds like it's a healthy group.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, it's a healthy group.

[Victoria Monet]

It's curated and got did his thing. So I appreciate it.

[Michelle Obama]

But we're gonna keep an eye on you. You got any new music coming out? Anything we should know? Any T2 drop?

[Victoria Monet]

T2 drop. I'm actually working on the next project right now after the book tour. I am actually locking away in the studio. And the rest of the year is just music, music, music. So I'm excited about that.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, we consider you a part of the IMO family.

[Victoria Monet]

You and Hazel.

[Michelle Obama]

Tell Hazel I said hey.

[Victoria Monet]

I sure will. And her Chanel.

[Michelle Obama]

And her Chanel. I wish you all the best. We're going to keep an eye on you. Thank you. Anytime you want to come on and, you know, throw down some more wisdom, we would love to have you.

[Victoria Monet]

Thank you. So much for having me. It was an honor to speak with.

[Michelle Obama]

You both and keep representing. Keep showing up as a fabulous young woman, young mother, young professional. Are you single and ready to mingle? Do you need to DTR with your fwb? Whatever you're looking for, I can help you find it. I'm demonetized. I'm Jonah Hoffman, host of the Dates and Mates podcast. I'm also the official love expert of the Drew Barrymore show and Excess Daily with Mario Lopez. So join me each week as I cover topics from dating with anxiety to Google sleuthing to couples communication with guests like Dr. Drew Pinsky, Laverne Cox, and Rachel Lindsay. That's Dates and Mates with me, Damona Hoffman. Listen to season 12 wherever you get your podcasts.