It’s Okay to Apologize to Your Kids with Serena Williams

Summary

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Podcast Summary: “It’s Okay to Apologize to Your Kids” with Serena Williams

Podcast: IMO with Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson
Producer: Higher Ground
Release Date: May 13, 2026
Guest: Serena Williams

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Episode Overview

This candid episode brings together Michelle Obama, Craig Robinson, and Serena Williams for a wide-ranging, heartfelt discussion about motherhood, fertility journeys, parenting philosophies, and the power of breaking cycles of silence around women’s health. In a relaxed, often humorous setting, Serena opens up about previously private topics—her conception and birth experiences, the lessons she learned from her formidable mother, and what it's like raising daughters in the spotlight. The conversation is full of wisdom, warmth, and practical advice, aimed at demystifying the challenges and joys of being a parent.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Desire and Journey to Motherhood

• Both Michelle and Serena reveal from a young age, they knew they wanted to be mothers ([02:16-03:14]).
  • Michelle: “The one thing I always knew I wanted to be was a mother...”
  • Serena: “Even when I was young, playing with my dolls, you know, I was always the one that just wanted to have kids.”
• Discussion of biological clock pressures, miscarriages, IVF, and the sense of failure many women internalize when conception is difficult ([03:46-07:30]).
  • Michelle shares her own fertility struggles and IVF journey.
  • Serena highlights the importance of egg freezing and openly discusses her own experience:
    • “I froze my eggs… all this weight just fell off my shoulders.” ([06:08])
• Importance of open dialogue around topics like miscarriage, fertility, and menopause; both decry generational silence ([07:30-08:57]).

Notable Quote:
Serena Williams, on breaking the silence:
“I’m all about just talking and having real, raw, open conversations. Because I think it’s so important, like, not to hide what all of us go through.” ([08:57])

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2. Serena’s Pregnancy: Competing—and Winning—While Pregnant

• Serena recounts discovering her pregnancy by surprise while on the tennis circuit ([13:06-15:55]).
  • She won the 2017 Australian Open while seven weeks pregnant, thinking her symptoms were due to travel and fatigue.
• Her win came through strategic adaptation on the court, guided by her physical limits during early pregnancy ([17:44-19:18]).
  • “I remember thinking to myself, I can’t play long points. I need to finish…I have to hit lots of winners and lots of aces…”
• Michelle applauds Serena for not hiding her struggle and for role-modelling vulnerability.

Notable Exchange:
Michelle: “Women can do anything.”
Serena: “Especially with the help of God, you can do everything.” ([19:33-19:40])

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3. High-Risk Labor, Maternal Health, and Advocacy

• Serena’s candid recounting of her traumatic labor and delivery, including an emergency C-section, being ignored by nurses, multiple surgeries for blood clots, and her advocacy for listening to women’s health concerns ([22:00-27:01]).
  • “If [my doctor] hadn’t listened, it would have…I wouldn’t be here.” ([26:35])
• Highlights systemic shortcomings in maternal health and the need to trust women’s voices in medical settings.
• Michelle and Serena emphasize passing down knowledge and advocating for better information and research for women, rather than perpetuating generational silence ([29:18-30:32]).

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4. Lessons from Mom: Oracene Price’s Quiet Strength

• Serena credits her mother, Oracene, for her own mental fortitude and discipline ([33:40-41:27]).
  • “On my mom’s court, there was no games. I had to be serious…she was able to instill so much mental toughness…”
• Oracene described as the “spine” of the family:
  • “My dad is the body…but my mom is a spine. You cannot function without that spine.” ([41:27])
• Stories highlight Oracene's resilience through adversity, her quiet wisdom, and ability to prioritize care for family—especially in the wake of tragedy.

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5. Parenting Philosophies: Humility, Presence, and Apologizing

• Serena and Michelle discuss their methods:
  • Serena chooses presence and flexibility over rigid planning, prioritizing being with her girls despite her demanding schedule ([44:19-46:10]).
  • The importance of apologizing to kids and teaching humility:
    • “As a parent, when I make a mistake, I make sure I say sorry…to teach my daughters humility…” ([57:37-58:13])
• Reflections on raising girls, the influence of birth order, and resisting societal pressures about what motherhood “should” look like.

Notable Quote:
Michelle Obama: “Because I think that if everybody took that job as seriously as everybody in this room, we’d solve a lot of problems that way just by taking care of the people we choose to bring into this world.” ([66:54])

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6. Parenting in the Public Eye and Striving for Normalcy

• Both reflect on the pressures of raising children under intense scrutiny—Michelle in the White House, Serena as a global icon ([58:13-62:08]).
  • Serena strives to keep her daughters’ lives as normal as possible:
    • “I pretty much live under a rock…I don’t tell her I played tennis…”
    • Olympia discovered Serena’s fame through reading.
• She describes being a “room mom” at school, participating in everyday parenting moments like field trips and bake sales ([62:08-63:13]).

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7. Advice for Athlete Moms & What’s Next

• Serena’s advice for athlete moms:
  • Appreciate and celebrate your own role in your child’s journey ([64:05-65:17]):
    • “If it weren’t for you, we wouldn’t be here…So I think all your sons can agree that they’re super grateful for what you guys have done for them.”
• What’s next for Serena?
  • Focused on her daughters, exploring new opportunities, and, above all, her health and happiness ([65:38-66:10]).

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Memorable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

• “I always tell all my friends of age, freeze your eggs. Because I just feel like that is the best thing…all this weight just fell off my shoulders.”
  — Serena Williams ([05:45-06:08])
• “I was determined to carry her [Olympia] but it was clear that you were struggling…But you were struggling, that you were physically. You were not the Serena Williams everybody knew.”
  — Michelle Obama ([27:15-27:57])
• “My dad is the body…but my mom is a spine. You cannot function without that spine.”
  — Serena Williams ([41:27])
• “As a parent, when I make a mistake, I make sure I say sorry…to teach my daughters humility.”
  — Serena Williams ([57:37])
• “If it weren’t for you, we wouldn’t be here. We wouldn’t be on these teams…I think you guys deserve a huge pat on the back, a huge round of applause.”
  — Serena Williams ([64:05])
• “The world needs this information. They need to see their idols being normal human beings in the world, being grounded and protective of the people that they love.”
  — Michelle Obama ([66:18])

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Important Timestamps

| Segment | Description | Timestamp | | ----------- | --------------- | ------------ | | Motherhood desires & fertility journeys | Michelle and Serena on wanting to be moms, IVF, and egg freezing. | 02:12–07:08 | | Breaking generational silence | Importance of talking about fertility, menopause. | 07:30–08:57 | | Serena’s pregnancy & 2017 Aus Open | Finding out she was pregnant, adapting her play. | 13:06–19:18 | | Maternal health struggles | Traumatic labor, medical advocacy. | 22:00–27:03 | | Oracene Price’s influence | Mom as the “spine,” coaching stories. | 33:40–41:27 | | Parenting philosophies | Presence, apologizing, humility. | 44:19–46:10; 57:37–58:13 | | Parenting in public & seeking normalcy | Hiding fame from her daughter. | 58:13–62:08 | | Advice to moms & Serena’s future | Gratitude, next steps. | 64:05–66:10 |

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Conclusion & Takeaways

The episode is a celebration of maternal resilience, honesty, and the importance of knowledge-sharing. Serena Williams, at her most open, and Michelle Obama, as a wise and empathetic host, model a new paradigm of motherhood—one that is real, supportive, and unapologetically honest. Whether reflecting on trauma, grappling with expectations, or savoring daily joys, their stories inspire listeners to break silence, embrace imperfection, and pass hard-won wisdom forward.

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Transcript

[Michelle Obama]

Serena, tell us if you feel comfortable about your conception journey. I mean, you.

[Serena Williams]

Well, one thing I. Well, that is definitely. I've never had that subject. Yeah, that's kind of intimate.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, you know, it's true. Well, but we're with moms, and this is only going to air to millions of people. So it's just between us girls,

[Serena Williams]

while we were in Rome.

[Michelle Obama]

And. This episode is brought to you by Chase Home Lending. Hey there. Hi there, moms. Hey, Serena girl.

[Serena Williams]

Hey.

[Michelle Obama]

What's happening? First of all, let me start by thanking Steve and Connie Balmer and the entire LA Clippers organization for hosting us today. They are wonderful. Let's give them a round of applause. And you guys have been great partners to us personally, and we are incredibly grateful to be working with you. So thank you. We're here today to talk about my favorite subject, motherhood, with some of my favorite people. Mothers, Right? And what better guest to have not just one of the greatest athletes in the world, but. One of the greatest mothers in the world? Because we're backstage and I'm like, how are the girls? And this one, you know, you can't even say their names without just feeling it. Right?

[Serena Williams]

Yeah, they're pretty special. Pretty special.

[Michelle Obama]

So we're going to talk about motherhood, our motherhood journeys, and so much more. But I want to begin with just a fundamental question. I don't know about you. I've done a lot in life. I have accomplished things. Degrees and all the things. And I always knew that I wanted to have a career. I wanted to have an impact. But the one thing I always, always knew I wanted to be was a mother, for sure. I mean, it is the most important thing. And I knew that from a long, long time. And that's not always true. I mean, we all come to motherhood in different ways for different reasons, and there is no right way to be a mother. That's for sure. That's all I've learned. But I'm wondering, Serena, did you feel that way? Did you always want to be a mother?

[Serena Williams]

Yeah, actually, I've always wanted to be a mom. I didn't know, you know, there's a lot of things involved with becoming a mom, but I always knew that I wanted to be a mom. Even when I was young, playing with my dolls, you know, I was always the one that just wanted to have kids. So it's always been something that I've always knew throughout my life. And I didn't know when. I just didn't know when it was going to happen. But I always knew that that was the time. First one goal that I just definitely wanted to reach, and that was becoming a mom.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. And then you start trying to be a mom, which I did. And you know what? They never. What I was never told was that the biological clock was real. And I try to tell a lot of young people that a lot of young women that that clock is real. And Barack and I, we married in our late 20s, took our time hanging tough, and then we started working on conceiving. I got pregnant once and miscarried, which was devastating. And then we tried and tried and tried, and we had to do IVF for both girls, which, you know, becomes. It's more of a thing than I knew then. I think more young women are talking about their conception journey, that it's not always guaranteed. But, Serena, tell us if you feel comfortable about your conception journey. I mean, you.

[Serena Williams]

Well, one thing I. Well, that is definitely. I've never had that subject. Yeah, that's kind of intimate.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, you know, it's true. Well, but we're with moms.

[Serena Williams]

We were it.

[Michelle Obama]

And this is only going to air to millions of people. So it's just. Just between us girls

[Serena Williams]

while we were in Rome,

[Michelle Obama]

And.

[Serena Williams]

One thing led to another, and then nine months later, so.

[Michelle Obama]

But you were pregnant while you were still. So were you trying.

[Serena Williams]

No, I wasn't trying to have a kid at the time, but.

[Michelle Obama]

But you were not. Not trying, clearly, apparently.

[Serena Williams]

But you know what's so interesting about what you said about the biological clock? I tell all my friends of age. Freeze your eggs.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

Because I just feel like that is the best thing. Thing that you can do as a woman as you decide to go on this journey. Like, I feel like I did that and I.

[Michelle Obama]

You. You froze.

[Serena Williams]

Yeah. Yeah, I froze my eggs. And I felt like once I did it because I was still playing professional tennis, and, you know, I felt like I wasn't ready to stop and I wanted to keep going. And, you know, it just wasn't time. And then all of a sudden, all this pressure came off of my shoulders. Like, it was just all this weight just fell off my shoulders. Once I did that, then I told a lot. Ever since then, I told everyone to do it. And someone.

[Michelle Obama]

How old were you when you.

[Serena Williams]

I was in my 20s. I was like 27, 28. So. So it was. It was a really good time to do it. And also someone told me to do it. So I always felt like it was really important for me to pay that forward, because then nowadays with technology, there's Just so much that you can do. Like you said, even with ivf, which is also such a great journey as well. And I just felt like. I just felt so much better. I just felt so much better that I actually had that option. So. Yeah. So that's what we were able to do as well.

[Michelle Obama]

I mean, there's so much pressure on women just to. I mean, if you don't get that part right, there's still a feeling that something is missing. I don't know about all of you, but I know that when I struggle, struggled to conceive, I took that on like a personal failure.

[Serena Williams]

I mean, I don't think that we have that conversation enough about how many times that either you conceive and you have a miscarriage or whether you conceive and it doesn't work. Yeah. So I feel like the only times it work when you're not trying to conceive, but that's.

[Michelle Obama]

Right. It just.

[Serena Williams]

I think that's just really important part of just being a woman and just all these things I'm all about just breaking down these walls and talking about the uncomfortable. Comfortable. And I'm comfortable and talking about things that.

[Michelle Obama]

So you could. More people don't. More about Rome. But it's okay.

[Serena Williams]

Not that now that's a different type of conversation. I wasn't sure we were here for that. So it was. I don't know. I just feel like a lot of people aren't really. Women aren't really open. Like, it's kind of like, you know, like menopause and perimenopause. Like so many. Like my mom's generation. No one's open about that conversation.

[Michelle Obama]

My mother said she didn't remember. I was like, you lying?

[Serena Williams]

Exactly or it didn't bother you? My mom said.

[Michelle Obama]

Right.

[Serena Williams]

You know, that was nothing.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, right. It's never nothing to them.

[Serena Williams]

And I'm just like. But now I think this generation is all about it. Like, the more. The more you know about it and the more you can, you know, just tell people about it. Like, I try to tell everyone. If I tell all my friends, listen, I started a prednisone. Why not? You know, and it helped me sleep better and helped me do that. And they're like, really? I hadn't done that. I'm like, girl, you better do it.

[Michelle Obama]

I hear you.

[Serena Williams]

So. And, you know, I'm all about just talking and having real, raw, open conversations. Because I think it's so important, like, not to hide what all of us go through.

[Michelle Obama]

That's absolutely.

[Serena Williams]

It doesn't matter what color you are, how tall you are, it doesn't matter where you're all going to go through it. So I think it's so important to have those conversations. So back to the kids. I think that too is just like, you know, it's important to say, like, you know, this didn't work out for me, or this is how I had my kid, you know, or this is what I did and this was my journey. And then it also helps you feel, Maury, like, oh, it's okay.

[Michelle Obama]

Yes.

[Serena Williams]

Like, oh, I, you know, one thing. When I was pregnant, I checked my underwear every single time I went to the bathroom. I mean, sure, we all did that at some point.

[Michelle Obama]

Is it still there?

[Serena Williams]

Exactly. It's like when no one talks about that. Cause it's just a natural. It's almost like a natural reaction.

[Michelle Obama]

It's so true.

[Serena Williams]

Yeah, it's like. Cause you just have stress the entire time you're pregnant until you actually give the baby. Then you have a whole nother stress.

[Michelle Obama]

But that's right.

[Serena Williams]

But it's just like, just, you know, having those conversations.

[Michelle Obama]

I am so with you. One of the reasons why I like to be open and honest is because we didn't have that necessarily. And the truth is, is that we don't pay enough attention to women's health. There's so much we don't know about our bodies, so much that doctors don't share with us. Even the issue of conceiving and freezing eggs. If you don't have the right doctor at the right time, you may not get that information. I still know young women who aren't thinking about freezing their eggs because nobody mentioned that to them. So it becomes, do you have the right doctor? Are you in the right location?

[Serena Williams]

Do you get married later? You can still use those eggs with your husband. It doesn't like. It's just so. You just have so many more opportunities and options. And so I don't know, for me, I was really happy that I did it.

[Mish]

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[Michelle Obama]

And I remember that he always mowed the grass in a three piece suit, a fedora and suspenders. Maybe he took the jacket off, but he was a gentleman, a Pullman porter.

[Mish]

He sure was.

[Michelle Obama]

And had that push lawnmower, so it was never the electric one, which is

[Mish]

why he told me not to cut the grass right after it rained because that thing would have never cut anything.

[Michelle Obama]

But we learned a lot about home ownership because Uncle Terry was the first homeowner that we lived with that we knew.

[Mish]

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[Michelle Obama]

So then you got pregnant and you were. You were in a Grand Slam tournament when you. When did you. What? I mean, okay, can you walk us. Can you walk us back to when. When you found out and because you were pregnant, when you won the Australian Open in 2017.

[Serena Williams]

Yes, I had no intention of winning.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. Just for the record, you were just. I'm just here phoning it in.

[Serena Williams]

This is one time I could lose and not be upset about it. Really? No, Because I remember thinking, so it all started in New Zealand. I was playing a tournament before the Australian Open in New Zealand. And I'm not the most positive person on the court. If anyone ever followed my career, everyone was making fun of Coco. Everyone see that? And making fun.

[Michelle Obama]

I know, right? Oh, you say something.

[Serena Williams]

Because I was like, really? Can you smash that in one go? Like, like, hello, Coco.

[Michelle Obama]

You can do better than that, girl.

[Serena Williams]

You can do better than that. And then of course, all the. Someone started pulling up all the pictures of rackets I smashed. I was like, wait, when is this a Serena roast? I was just trying to support her,

[Michelle Obama]

just trying to help the girl out. Just get off my back.

[Serena Williams]

So anyways, I was at this tournament with the famous attitude that I may have had to sometimes. And I just had a bad. I just lost to this girl that I just. I shouldn't have lost to. And I just remember, I was just so mad. It was windy and I was mad at the win, and it was the ball kid. I was mad at the ball kid, and I was so angry with everything. I was so mad. And I'm sure I smashed a racket. I was miserable.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

And even in the presser after. We all know about pressers afternoon.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, my God.

[Serena Williams]

I said, I hate the splits. I never did this in my life. I said, I hate this place. I'm never coming back. It sucks. I was miserable. So then next week I'm in Australia and I'm working out, and I'm not. I'm like, why am I breathing so hard? Why am I breathing? Anyway, eventually I also. My boobs were massive, massive, massive. And I was like, okay, I'm just gonna take a test. I took a test, ended up it was positive. But I was like, okay, this is crazy. And so anyway, so I ended up going to the doctor, and he's like, oh, surprise. You're like, what am I, like, four weeks pregnant? No, you're seven weeks pregnant.

[Michelle Obama]

Wow.

[Serena Williams]

And I was like, what?

[Michelle Obama]

What? Excuse me.

[Serena Williams]

It was crazy. But then it all made sense as to why so bad. I mean, I was really. That was the worst of one of. Probably one of the worst of the worst.

[Michelle Obama]

And you weren't pregnant those other times?

[Serena Williams]

Well, I was thinking about being a mom. I always wanted to be a mom.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

I was probably in the back of my head. So. Yeah. So then I was like, oh, my gosh. So then I thought to myself, wow, self, what are we gonna do?

[Michelle Obama]

And so, self. Self, there's a baby in here. And did you already committed to play at the Open?

[Serena Williams]

Yeah, and I was supposed to play doubles, so I pulled out at doubles. And Venus didn't tell me anything. But later on, she said, when you pulled out, I knew you were pregnant.

[Michelle Obama]

I'm like, how you didn't tell her?

[Serena Williams]

No, because I also felt really bad because I was just like. I didn't want to pull out, and I didn't want her to be stressed. And then it was. It's. It was crazy. I couldn't, you know, just didn't want to stress anybody out. So one of my sisters knew, and the baby daddy knew my husband.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, that's good. That's good, that's good.

[Serena Williams]

And my agent knew, Jill. So we just kept. And then. But apparently Venus knew too. So she told, like, early on. It was like on the third round in the locker room, she's like, she told me, and I Was like, okay. And then I felt bad in the final because I was like, I always felt back. It's always like, she probably wanted to make. Take it easy on me because she's always protecting me. Yeah. So I was like, I wish she. I really wish she hadn't known.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

Because then maybe. I don't know, maybe it would have been different. Maybe it wouldn't have. But still, I just like to be super fair with whoever I'm playing. So. Yeah, so that's kind of how it happened. And then at the end, I was nine weeks pregnant, and then.

[Michelle Obama]

Wow.

[Serena Williams]

It was nuts. So.

[Michelle Obama]

So how'd you feel through? I mean, I was exhausted.

[Serena Williams]

I remember playing points, and so.

[Michelle Obama]

So most of us are just in bed. You know, we. In bed, we're not, like, breaking rackets. We just. In bed, I had sleep.

[Serena Williams]

But I remember thinking to myself, I can't play long points. I need to finish. I have to three shots, and I have to be done. So I hit like. I was like, I have to hit lots of winners and lots of aces, and. Which is an insane.

[Michelle Obama]

You were on mission.

[Serena Williams]

But I hadn't planned on winning. But every. Every time I kept winning, I was like, oh, I can beat her. And then, you know, and I was like, oh, I can beat her. And then it was like, oh, I gotta beat. She pissed me off, so she gotta go down. There was only one or two of those.

[Michelle Obama]

So you just. You just revenged your way to the title. Oh, girl.

[Serena Williams]

And then there was another one. I can't, like. I mean, I have some sort of pride, so that's how I would ask.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. Wow. Wow. So did it feel extra good that you were able to.

[Serena Williams]

Okay, that's what I was saying. So I couldn't have long points. So if I had a really long point, if you go back and watch the footage, I would lose the next point. And of course, it's only my opponents don't get that. They don't get to understand that rhythm because that's normally not normally how I play. But, you know, when you're getting every. Eventually you'll see that after a long point, Serena loses the next point. So you have to.

[Michelle Obama]

Because you're trying to catch your breath. Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

Yeah. But I also have to keep a face on. That doesn't let anyone know that I'm, you know, struggling, like, surely can't breathe. But women can do anything.

[Michelle Obama]

Amen. Amen.

[Serena Williams]

Especially with the help of God, you can do everything.

[Michelle Obama]

Amen.

[Serena Williams]

And I knew I was having a girl because Australia gets Really hot. They do Celsius. It was like 43 is, like 120. And one day I had to play in 43. And I was like, no way. There's no way. And that's when I knew I'm having a girl. Because I said to myself, no way can a boy make it.

[Michelle Obama]

They just, sorry, y'. All. I genuinely have it in you.

[Serena Williams]

I genuinely said. And I told my husband that day, we're having a girl. There's no way a little boy could handle everything. Putting this baby under. And we had a girl.

[Michelle Obama]

That's right. Olympia was just like, mom, we're cool.

[Serena Williams]

We're cool. I got you.

[Michelle Obama]

I'm hanging on.

[Serena Williams]

Hanging in there.

[Michelle Obama]

I wish you'd just win this point.

[Serena Williams]

But you know what? She has a bad attitude. Like me. She gets angry if she doesn't win. She gets so mad.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, we don't call that a bad attitude. We call that repetitive, determined.

[Serena Williams]

Okay. We call that competitive.

[Michelle Obama]

Yes. That's what we. Yes. No, that's what we call it. That is not a bad attitude. Because if a man. Because I've been that way. Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

Yeah. Well, they told me for years. It's a bad attitude.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

I love this.

[Michelle Obama]

But guess what?

[Serena Williams]

I'm getting some good insights.

[Michelle Obama]

We're both the youngest, and there's something about that determination, I believe. And I don't. I see it in my youngest. We have two girls, and, you know, I think when you're keeping up, you know, I know. I felt like my brother would deliberately learn how to play a game, go off, and then go, mish, let's play. And I'm like, dude, you. You know, he was just gonna beat me down.

[Serena Williams]

What's the age difference?

[Michelle Obama]

It's a year and a half. It's almost two years. And so I'm always losing, you know, and trying to keep up, and after a while, you just get pissed, you know? So I. I think there is a youngest child determinant.

[Serena Williams]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

In that.

[Serena Williams]

Absolutely.

[Michelle Obama]

For sure. Yeah. But that doesn't explain Olympia, because she's the oldest.

[Serena Williams]

I know.

[Michelle Obama]

Okay.

[Serena Williams]

I think it was just the situation that she was in.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Serena Williams]

So a little bit from it. That's okay, though.

[Michelle Obama]

So your. Your labor and delivery experience was also a journey.

[Serena Williams]

Yeah, that was.

[Michelle Obama]

Can you talk about it?

[Serena Williams]

That was a journey. I have these issues with my blood, so my blood can clot pretty easily, so I have to be on certain type of medicines, especially if I'm pregnant. I have to always take injections every day. So when I had the Baby, I couldn't breathe. And I kept telling the lady, the nurse, I kept saying, I can't breathe. And she was like, oh, well, you know, you'll be fine. I said, no, actually, I think I need to get a CAT scan because I feel. I think I have blood clots in my lungs.

[Michelle Obama]

And you're in the hospital.

[Serena Williams]

I'm in the hospital.

[Michelle Obama]

You had the baby. You had a C section.

[Serena Williams]

I've already had the baby. I had a C section because she wouldn't come out. I knew I was gonna have to have a C section, so I just had premonition. Yeah. I just felt like I feel a lot. And I don't know. Three months in, I was like, I'm having a C section. And so when they told me I had to have a C section, I wasn't surprised. And I went with a plan. And also tell women. Now I say, listen, definitely, if you want to push, go for it. I wish I could have done it. But also, if the doctor tells you they have to cut, do it. Because I've seen so many kids be so affected because women want to stick to their plan of, I must push, I must push. And I've seen kids come out unfortunate and even die because they didn't follow the. You know, follow what the doctor said.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, that's another thing that women take on, that birth has to look a certain way.

[Serena Williams]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

And I, for one, was like, I went in 5cm dilated. I thought about natural birth for literally the conversation I had with my doctor that said, okay, it was like eight. And I said, well, how long is it gonna take? How long am I gonna have to be in this kind of pain? And she said, about four hours. And I was like, no, stick that needle right in my back. I think I could have done it if she had said an hour. Right. If she had said, this baby's coming in an hour, I'm like, okay, I can do it. But four hours? I was like, so.

[Serena Williams]

I mean, I applaud the women that can do that.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, it's wonderful.

[Serena Williams]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

Yay. It's not me for you, but I'm all.

[Serena Williams]

I'm. Cause I heard about something called the Ring of Fire.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, yes. I never want to meet the ring. Me neither.

[Serena Williams]

I don't know.

[Michelle Obama]

See, I'm always like, would you get your tooth pulled without anesthesia? Is there anybody here? Would a man do that?

[Serena Williams]

Definitely not. No.

[Michelle Obama]

I know you're gonna be the butt of all the man jokes.

[Serena Williams]

He's handling it well, though.

[Michelle Obama]

Steve over there cracking up, you know, y' all are weak.

[Serena Williams]

So anyway, so I was, I told the nurse that and she just was like, this is crazy talk. Which it may have sounded like crazy talk for me to tell him what, give her exactly, quote unquote, what I needed and how I needed it. And then I started coughing so hard so all my stitches just like burst open cuz I couldn't breathe. And so like my. I was holding a pillow on my stomach and I was just coughing because I was just like, like, they're going to break, they're going to break. And I couldn't breathe so I was just coughing, coughing, coughing. And they broke. And that was. I had to have that redone. I think I had like five surgeries and that. I don't know, it was. I don't remember some of them. And then my doctor came in and I was like, I can't breathe. I think I need this, the CAT scan. And this is like after I'd already told the nurse and then, because I remember my husband's parents were there and I was in the room and they were talking and they were holding the baby. And I calmly walked because I'm. Again, I calmly walked back and I was like, I don't want anyone to panic. And that's when I told the nurse, I can't breathe. You know, I was just like, you know, help me out here. And she didn't take me serious. So then when the doctor came, I was telling her I couldn't breathe and she was like, okay. I could look at her and tell that. I don't know if she believed me, but she did everything I asked. And I was really grateful that I had her and that she was with me for the whole pregnancy journey. And it's so good to have a doctor that can. Will listen to you and you know, you might say things that don't make sense, but still she. She heard me, she listened. And if she hadn't listened, it would have. I wouldn't be here.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

And she made sure that she did what I asked and then she found exactly what I said. So then I had to have another surgery to get like a. Something in my veins to stop clots from going to my heart. I had so many surgeries.

[Michelle Obama]

How long were you in the hospital after you delivered?

[Serena Williams]

It was. It wasn't that long. It was only like eight days.

[Michelle Obama]

And you had that many surgeries in eight days?

[Serena Williams]

In eight days. It was crazy.

[Michelle Obama]

And then you had to go home with a baby then.

[Serena Williams]

I had to. And I remember my Only goal was to be able to walk to the mailbox. Cause I was like. And one day I walked to the mailbox and I came back and I passed out for the rest of the day. It was very intense.

[Michelle Obama]

I remember watching the documentary, that journey that followed your comeback, and it really moved me to see you because it showed you and you and the family leaving with Olympia in the carrier, and you were determined to carry her. But it was clear that you were struggling.

[Serena Williams]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

That you were struggling, that you were physically. You were not the Serena Williams everybody knew. But I also was very proud of you for showing that story. And anyone who hasn't, remind me that the name of the.

[Serena Williams]

Being Serena.

[Michelle Obama]

Being Serena. This is like watching her journey and her comeback. You show it all in a way that is so powerful. And if I didn't love you before, then, I loved you even more just watching your determination. Thanks. To get that baby home, regardless of your health. But you were struggling.

[Serena Williams]

Yeah, I was really struggling. But I also had some great help, you know, and sometimes, you know, family is so important, and not everyone has family. And so I just felt so grateful that I did have that and my husband and I had my family. And then. Because I don't remember the. I don't think I remember the first three weeks.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

Because I remember my husband's sister came to visit, and she told me, like, a year later, and I was like, I vaguely remember you there. I would have never remembered it if she hadn't reminded me. I was like, oh, my gosh. Everything was just so. It was a lot, but it was good. And I think that everyone has their own journey. And I was blessed to have my journey. And the more I talk to women, the more I understand and see that everyone's journey is not everyone. But a lot of women's journey is so intense.

[Michelle Obama]

Yes.

[Serena Williams]

And often worse than mine.

[Michelle Obama]

Giving birth is intense, which is why

[Serena Williams]

you put your life on the line.

[Michelle Obama]

It is why maternal health should not be a political football. Because what our bodies do, what we are capable of doing is amazing. But the fact that there isn't research done on maternal health, there's a limited amount of information we get about our health. We aren't encouraged to ask questions. We aren't encouraged to talk amongst each other. And I just want us to vow today, you know, regardless of our generation, that we don't pass that down to the next generation, that we owe them the knowledge, the wisdom, because we want to know. Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

I mean, everyone wants to know, and they don't want to know. If they don't know.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, that's right.

[Serena Williams]

And so it's just like, knowledge is power. And it's like when you go to school, you would never know the things that you learned unless you're taught those. You weren't asked to learn about so many subjects, but you learn about them. And I feel the same way about us and our health and passing on that knowledge, and I think it's just so important.

[Mish]

So we're back in LA for another round of IMO Recordings, and it's All Star Weekend.

[Michelle Obama]

I know. How's your trip going?

[Mish]

You know, really well. And Kelly and the kids are here, so we're gonna try and check out some of these All Star activities. Yeah, you know, it's been a busy time at home with the boys basketball schedules, and we've got a busy week of recordings here in la. So it's always nice having a relaxing place to stay while I'm here.

[Michelle Obama]

I know what you mean. I mean, I don't have that issue, but I know from your experiences that and you're on the road, you gotta have a place that feels kinda like home.

[Mish]

Exactly. And this time, my Airbnb has a steam shower, a fireplace. But, Mish, I know you've got quite a busy schedule of your own. You and Barack are prepping for a really big week of events. The grand opening of the Obama Presidential center in June, right?

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. Yeah. We are so excited about the opening. The art in it is amazing, and we can't wait to share it with the community and with the world.

[Mish]

That's so great. And I'm sure Chicago will be seeing a lot of visitors that week, including myself and my family. With Airbnb, local hosts can offer those travelers a proper welcome. And with visitors arriving from all around the world for a big event like this, it's even more important that people have some comfortable places to stay. So if you've got a place you're not using during a big event in your hometown, consider. Consider becoming a host on Airbnb. It's a great way to make some extra money and a fun way to share your city with fellow fans. Your home becomes part of their experience, and you get to help make their weekend feel even more memorable. So Chicago can't wait to see you in June.

[Michelle Obama]

See you there. Well, let's turn to your mother, because so much, you know, everybody talks about your dad and the relationship with your dad, and your mom sits in those stands in a way that I could never. She. I mean, I just couldn't watch My kids play, but she was always there. I had the opportunity to meet her briefly. I think we were in Wimbledon for the Olympics.

[Serena Williams]

Yes. Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

And I was there representing the United States for whatever reason. What sport was good.

[Serena Williams]

Did you get a medal?

[Michelle Obama]

I did not. I got no medal. Oh, but you did.

[Serena Williams]

You did get medal.

[Michelle Obama]

You got a few. But I met your mom. Talk about your mom, you know, tell us about that amazing woman and what you've learned from her as a mother.

[Serena Williams]

Well, my mom is a very strong woman. She's definitely not sharing all this information, though.

[Michelle Obama]

Yes. Really.

[Serena Williams]

She came from that generation where mine either. Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

Marianne is like, don't remember anything.

[Serena Williams]

Yes. She's very tough. My mom's very tough. And she's. She's actually the one only oldest of her siblings, so she's always been a mom.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

And, you know, it's interesting to be something that you've always been, and then to grow up and to become a mother. And then she also took care of our grandkids so well. Her grandkids. So my mom, you know, growing. I'll start growing up. Growing up. I wasn't the best tennis player, was always Venus, who was so great. And so I was demoted to my mom's court because my dad. Venus. Venus always played with my dad. And because he was better than my mom, he actually taught my mom. My mom must have been an incredible athlete to learn how to play really that fast. And so from there, I would always be on her court. And so I always wanted to be on my dad's court because he was more easygoing and he was more fun. People always think the opposite.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, he was easy. Yeah. Really?

[Serena Williams]

Yeah. And so on my mom's court, there was no games. I had to be serious, and I had to do all this stuff. But then looking back, I was able to see that she was able to instill so much mental toughness that I had that my sister actually did not end up getting, because I had to do so much. I had to work so hard. I had to do so many more things on her court. Like, there were no games. It was so serious. Like, it was just. It's. I was very. In the end, I was very grateful that I had that time with her to just focus on technique and focus on just not letting anything go, because it really showed up in my game as a professional athlete and mental and mentally and physically. And so that came from my mom. And so my mom, then she traveled with us. Actually, the first tournament I ever won, we had to split again. My dad was with Venus, and I was with my mom in Paris. And I was my first term, and I think I was, like, 16. And I remember we shared a room, because I love Paris. So I remember, like, we were at this hotel on the other side of the San. The river. And I remember that we shared a room, and she. She had the bed, and I slept on the cot because I love sleeping on a cottage. Okay.

[Michelle Obama]

All right. That's news you can use. Serena Williams loves a cot.

[Serena Williams]

Yes. And I remember every night I wanted to watch cartoons every night because you

[Michelle Obama]

guys were big cartoon people. You like.

[Serena Williams]

I still am, by the way. I love animation now. I'm into Marvel.

[Michelle Obama]

I was gonna blame that on the kids, but. No, I still a big kid.

[Serena Williams]

Yeah, so. So I was still pretty young. I still had an excuse, though. And so she didn't mind. And so, like, she made. She watched it with me every night. And so. Such a good memory. And it's a good moment. I remember every night after I would win a match, because I always played this. I was in France, and I played. My whole draw was French people. And the stadium was probably the size of this room, but it was loud, loud, loud, loud, loud. And so every time I played, everyone was massively against me, naturally, because I'm playing their country person. Nothing personal. It was crazy. And so every night I come home, like, wow, I can't believe I got through that every night. So I just had to shut off my brain. We watched some animated something, and then. And then that was that. And so eventually, when I won, I always just remember being so happy. Then I remember we called Venus, and she hadn't won, so she played another match, and she won her tournament. So we both won different tournaments, and we were so happy. And so then you fast forward a little bit more, we start winning Grand Slams. And my mom was there for all the Grand Slams. And our first Olympics was actually in Sydney, and my mom was there. My mom's also very clumsy, and she loves swimming. So one time we were at Wimbledon, and we see this woman hobbling along the road, and I'm like, mom. What is my mom.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, my God.

[Serena Williams]

What's going on? I'm like, you need to see a doctor. I'm good. I'm gonna get some food.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, you just drive past, and she's hopping.

[Serena Williams]

We're like, why aren't you at the house? And she's. I need some cookies.

[Michelle Obama]

What?

[Serena Williams]

Like, are you. Oh, you are not okay. She had a broken toe, but she was.

[Michelle Obama]

Anything to get a Cookie.

[Serena Williams]

And she used to always hide cookies under the seat when we were driving. She used to hide cookies. My dad would be like, why are all these cookies? So she definitely has a sweet tooth, which is kind of funny. But it's. It's. I have so many good memories.

[Michelle Obama]

What was it like being coached by your mom? How did that. Being coached your. Was that always good? Because we got a lot of moms out here, probably did their share of coaching. How did your mom maintain that sort of special mom relationship? Or did she.

[Serena Williams]

So I think what a lot of people don't realize is that we travel every time we went to Australia, probably, actually every time we went to France, my mom was always there. My dad actually never went to those tournaments. And so she was always our coach for all that time. And so I don't know how many Australian opens I've won.

[Michelle Obama]

A lot.

[Serena Williams]

Yes. So she basically coached me through all of them. And I remember one time when I was 89 in the world and everyone had written me off, I was like, 20 something, and they said I would never win again, blah, blah, blah. And she told me before in the final, before I played. I think I was playing Maria in that final, Maria Sharapova. She was like. She said, you've got this. You're gonna do this. She told me exactly how to play, and I won in less than an hour. And it was really genius. So she actually was a very great coach. And she'll say little things. My mom is not someone that's gonna fill a room. She's gonna say one word, but it's gonna be the most powerful word in the room, and that's it. And so she'll say one thing, like, you need to attack the forehand if it's low or something, but you have to listen.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

And if you listen, you can catch on to it, and you can be like, okay. And that's the kind of person she is even in life. You know, she always says, like, one about raising my kids. She'll be like, you need to be with those girls.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

And so no matter what's happening in the world or what we're all going through, I always remember I got to be with those girls, you know, because she was always there with us. And now that, looking back, like, she never spent a day away from us, all the girls. And so. And then she's also the kind of person, like, my sister, unfortunately passed early on. And she's the kind of person that. I remember when she found out, like, we all were just traumatized she just dropped everything and she moved to la, actually. And then she took care of the grandkids and she raised them and she never moved back. So that's the kind of person that she is. She's very. She's used to responsibility.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

And she has a lot on her shoulders, but she's so proud to carry it. And then now she's instilled that into all of our daughters, to just carry that power, to carry that strength and to pass it on to our kids and to my kids and. And all the other grandkids. So it's really. She's an amazing person. Yeah. That's the quick version.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

It's so much that I can say about my mom, but I'd love hearing about your mom. The last thing I'll say is, yeah, we do talk about our dad a lot. And we wouldn't be here without our dad. Yeah, obviously. Obviously wouldn't be here without my mom. But I always described my mom as if my. I always describe us like this. My dad is the body because it was his vision, it was his goal, and it was his dream. But my mom is a spine. You cannot function without that spine. The nerves that come from it, the nervous system, you can have a dream, you can have everything all set, but it's not going to work unless you have that part of you. And so that's kind of how I describe my mom.

[Michelle Obama]

So what kind of mom are you? Are you a spine like Mom? I always ask this question a lot about parenting philosophy because I think one of the things I admired most about my mom. My mom didn't go to college. My parents were working class folks. She was the middle of seven. But my mom was so emotionally intelligent, and she had such great common sense. Sense, just like. Just like your mind. Wouldn't have to say much, but everybody wanted to hear from her. And one of the things that I learned from her was that, you know, you just don't have kids. You have to understand that you're raising people. And so her approach to raising us was to talk to us like who she wanted us to be later on. You know, she didn't treat us like babies. She loved us dearly. But she believed that all kids are born with a level of intelligence and ability, and she treated us that way. So she taught me, like, as I grew up, I was like, my mom had this really deep philosophy about parenting. You know, stuff you learn in sociology and psychology class just came naturally to her. So I kind of think about parenting as this huge responsibility to think about where am I trying to get my girls, not how I feel in the moment. So I always wonder what folks parenting philosophies are and do you think you have one? And how would you describe your mothering approach?

[Serena Williams]

So Venus is a planner. She writes everything down. Even when she got married, it was just, boom, Everything was just over. It was a lot.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, to be honest.

[Serena Williams]

Don't worry. This is coming full circle. So she was always a person that read books like, that would get through everything, like, would know exactly what she wants to do. So I think I'm different. I don't have that plan. I never had a philosophy as organized as I am in my life to a point where everything is labeled, My parenting skills is different. I kind of feel like, obviously I have spiritual goals for the kids. I have, you know, ideas for education goals. I have those types of things. But I never really thought much about

[Michelle Obama]

over.

[Serena Williams]

I don't. My philosophy is just to be the best that I can, to show up and to also be. I felt like I love my parents and how they raised us and just kind of pick and choose out of the sum of the things that, that they, that they raised us with. In particular, with my mom, how she raised us. So for me, I really try to be a present parent, and sometimes that's hard, especially with the lives that we live. Is very hard to be present, but I try to be extremely present.

[Michelle Obama]

How do you manage that?

[Serena Williams]

I mean, everything is around my kids. Like, if it's like, if I have to do something, I never more. I'm gone More than 24 hours. Hours ever. Normally. I didn't leave Olympia until she was 6 for 24 hours. So that was. That may have been a little extreme, but I, that's who I am. And so for me, I show up every. As much as I can every single day for the, for the girls, because I feel like they mean the most to me, and I feel like they need me and, and they, they need to make sure I, I, I want to raise my children.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

I'm a person that's raising my kids and that's teaching them how I want them to live and how I want them to be.

[Michelle Obama]

That's beautiful. That is beautiful. So, like me, you have two girls.

[Serena Williams]

Yes. I wanted to copy you.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

You were so inspiring to me.

[Michelle Obama]

And three years apart. Way to go. How is that? I always thought I was gonna have three boys. I don't know why. You know, I don't know why. I always thought I was a bit of a Tomboy. When I was younger, I could see you with sons.

[Serena Williams]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

I followed around my brother. I love boys. I thought they were funnier than girls. I've learned you guys you have some qualities.

[Serena Williams]

As she looks at Steve again.

[Michelle Obama]

So I always thought I was going to be the sports mom, the. You know, and then I have these two girls, and I am so grateful for my little women. And they are just amazing grown women now, 28 and 24, out in the world. And I can tell you, I have loved every second of mothering. Every second. But it's just interesting. The same gender, two girls. And I talk to my friends who have boys, and they're like, boys are definitely different. You know, like, Malia and Sasha could sit and color for hours. We could get on a plane. And I talk mothers of boys. You all laugh at that, right? I mean, they sit and read and color and. And you can talk to them, and there's no throwing anything. I don't think we had a lot of balls around the house. Then I go to my brother's house who have nephews, and they would come to visit at the White House, and they'd just walk in sweaty, you know, I mean, I was like, why are they wet? You know, you just got here, and they come in damp and just throw cars and balls all on the first floor of the White House. And I'm like, ooh, this is different. But anyway, I digress. You're precious little ladies. How are they? How does it feel being a mom to daughters?

[Serena Williams]

Yeah. I've. As you know, I've always wanted to be a mom. I've only wanted girls. I could have 10 girls. I would be happy. I grew up with four sisters.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

So I was the fifth sister. I've never been around boys.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

So when I got pregnant, I actually had a quick panic attack. I'm so certain it was a girl. But when they took the blood to do the blood test, I was like, oh, my God. I don't know what to do if I have a boy. I've never been around boys. And I really, like, I was going crazy. I was like, I can't have a boy. So I remember I went nuts. So I have no. I was like, I don't know what to do. Yeah. So that's all I know is girls. And I just always wanted girls. I've always been growing up, I always wore dresses. I was that girl with the princess.

[Michelle Obama]

Yes, your twirl, twirl.

[Serena Williams]

You know, tutus, like, that was all me. And so I love dressing Them up. They're actually right now, I think Olympia is wearing a Mulan dress as we speak. Of course, because they're at Disney World, so she must.

[Michelle Obama]

Must be in Milan.

[Serena Williams]

Yes. My idol, the little one is wearing on a dress.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, okay.

[Serena Williams]

So I'm like, oh, can you go buy them nor dresses, please? So I'm like, all that. I'm just. Yeah. So my older daughter is very much like me. Like, very much like girly, girly, girl. And my younger daughter is somewhat like, somewhat like me. I always describe her as like a. She'll wear a princess dress but with tennis shoes.

[Michelle Obama]

Okay. Yeah, Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

I like that she plays with cars. Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

Okay.

[Serena Williams]

One of my sisters play with cars a lot, so she reminds me a little bit of her. She loves Hot Wheels, but she'll wear. She'll wear Hot Wheels while wearing, like, a Rapunzel dress.

[Michelle Obama]

It's like, where's my tiara dress? Give me the Corvette.

[Serena Williams]

I love it. I love it. And Olympia and I have never we. Because Olympia's five years older than Adira, so we never played with cars and stuff.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

So we're all like, oh, this is actually really fun. So Olympia and I are always playing with the dearest toys. Like, oh, look it go. So it's nice that we have a little bit of a mix like that. It's really fun. Yeah.

[Mish]

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[Michelle Obama]

How do you balance your parenting philosophy with your husband? How are you? What have you learned from him about parenting?

[Serena Williams]

So one thing I he loves. He's a. And this is a positive word now.

[Michelle Obama]

Okay.

[Serena Williams]

Yeah, he's a nerd.

[Michelle Obama]

Okay. Yes, it is very much, very positive. Especially a nerd when with a job.

[Serena Williams]

We love nerds.

[Michelle Obama]

We love nerds. Nerds pay the bills.

[Serena Williams]

So he's all about explaining, huh? Okay, so he'll like.

[Michelle Obama]

Lot of explaining.

[Serena Williams]

So he'll like. So Olympia does something he'll like to Olympia like. Okay, so, you know, why do you think you're learning about this. And then he goes into this whole reason as to why, and I'm like, that's good. So I like how he. I like how there's, like, a balance. Like, he, like, kind of gives her the reasons and she understands. Like, you know, she'll ask a question about something, he'll go in a deep version about it. But it's nice because then she gets that knowledge and she really, you know, really gets it. And then for me, my philosophy. Philosophy is like, what do you like to do? How are we going to do this together? You know, it's super important not to ever diminish what he's doing. As. As our. As. As the man of the house. You want to make sure that you're always uplifting him. That's. That's my philosophy. So I always want to make sure that we're on the same page.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

And also with things that I want, like, I want the kids to, you know, do this to whatever sport or to go to this school and, you know, just come together for those decisions. So. Yeah. So I feel like we work very well in that. That part.

[Michelle Obama]

That's great. It's great. I always say, you know, you can have one kid and, you know, swear you're a good parent.

[Serena Williams]

It's like, I got this.

[Michelle Obama]

Look at me. I know all the things, and then you have the other one. And, you know, they just. Just kids, babies, they come into this world as their own individual selves, truly. And that. It's a beautiful thing. I mean, like snowflakes, really. But it can be a challenge if you think that, you know, one size fits all in parenting.

[Serena Williams]

Yeah. As a parent, when I make a mistake, I make sure I say sorry.

[Michelle Obama]

Absolutely.

[Serena Williams]

Because it is important for, first of all, to have that humility and to teach my daughters humility. And second of all, I never want them to think that I can't. A mom can't apologize to someone younger. So I've been wrong a few times with Olympia, and I am the first to tell her, you were right. I didn't do that. Right. You were. I. You were. I'm sorry. And so it's just. I think it's of kind, good practice for me and hopefully maybe someone else, but I feel like it's a very good thing to do.

[Michelle Obama]

I totally agree. And I've apologized a lot. Raising kids in the public eye, you know, I mean, we both have. Have done is. It just makes the process ten times more unnerving because, you know, you worry that your kids can't make mistakes because everybody. It's going to be on page six. You know, I mean, we would have those kind of conversations about, you know, you know, you have to. Our girls had to learn to think like comms people, like comms directors at a very young age. And it served them well today. I mean, they are very poised, very mature, but it's a lot of pressure that they didn't ask for. How are you approaching the public nature of who you are, how you live? How are you thinking about that at this stage in the girls life?

[Serena Williams]

So that's one thing that I try to do and never as public as you. I can't imagine the scrutiny that, that you guys had to go through, especially the children, every single day. So for me, I try to. I just try to make sure that my children are very normal. I pretty much live under a rock. I live in a very small town in Florida where I can go anywhere. And it's normal because Michael Jordan also lives there.

[Michelle Obama]

Sort of like everybody's like, we all want to go to this magical place where you can run into Serena and Michael at the 7:11 and Tiger.

[Serena Williams]

And everyone lives in the city divulge

[Michelle Obama]

where that is, because everybody's going to be there.

[Serena Williams]

And so everyone is normal. But it, it was really important for

[Michelle Obama]

me not to normalish.

[Serena Williams]

Just a lot of athletes live in this town.

[Michelle Obama]

Really.

[Serena Williams]

I don't know why, like, wow. But it's great because it's been normalized as we've been all living in there for so many years. But it works. And so for me, I try so hard to make sure Olympia is just like everyone else. Like, she's not seen as anyone special. I don't tell her that she's special. I never told her I played tennis. When she started reading, she saw me and she asked questions.

[Michelle Obama]

She's like, what are you doing, Mom? Come sit back in the audience with everybody else. Put that racket down, you silly, silly goose.

[Serena Williams]

One time in kindergarten, she's like, mom, why are you in my book? So eventually she like, but I don't live that life where, you know, you think that I, you know, and this is funny, but it's also very true. We also have friends that are very famous. So when we hang out with them, they seem extremely normal.

[Michelle Obama]

Yes, yes.

[Serena Williams]

So we go to Michael's house or Tiger's house. It's like, okay, you're good.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

So it is very average for us. And so that's what I want them to do. I don't want them to ever Feel like, because I don't want them to feel they're better than anyone else or they have an advantage because that just. We don't need that anymore in this system that, that we live in. We just need some kids that are just as normal as you can be. So that's what I do. And if they want to grow up and they want to be a great athlete or they want to be a great programmer, then they have every right to do that. And yeah, they're going to have an advantage because of the life that I've lived, you know, in the life my husband lived, sure, they're still going to have an advantage, but they're still going to have to work hard to do there and to make any goal that they want to make. And so for me, it's super important that they understand that and that they don't feel like they're better than anyone else. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

I hear that you served as the classroom mom.

[Serena Williams]

Yeah, I was room mom because I love my daughter and I'm obsessed.

[Michelle Obama]

What? When was this? Recently?

[Serena Williams]

Yeah, since she was in second grade.

[Michelle Obama]

Uh huh.

[Serena Williams]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

Tell us about that Serena. On the text everyone, you bring cookies?

[Serena Williams]

That was me.

[Michelle Obama]

That was you?

[Serena Williams]

That was me. It was so fun because I got to go to the school every day or if I wanted, I could be in the classroom.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

One time I was there for the spelling bee and I was like, you know, just, you know, pretending to work on the library, but I was watching all the kids spelled. Then poor Olympia got her word wrong and I was like, poor kid. She did her best though. But she tried, but I didn't say anything. I pretended I didn't hear because I didn't want her to feel the pressure that I was there. And it was so fun. I got to help organize all the. I love organizing. So I got to organize all the food for the teacher appreciation Day and the field trips and everything for the new year.

[Michelle Obama]

So your daughter doesn't know who you are, but those teachers and parents know.

[Serena Williams]

But you know what? They're really cool about it. Like, no, they're really, really. They're really cool. I feel like they don't, you know, they don't treat anyone any different throughout the whole school. And you know, and the school is also very tough, so you have to really be on it and go show up every day and so it's really nice.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, we are running out of time and I know it's been short, but I want to give us time to wrap it up and I would Love for you to share with this room of moms, especially moms of athletes who have made a level of. Of sacrifice. What advice do you have? What parting words of wisdom do you think you can share? I know that's heavy.

[Serena Williams]

Yeah. I don't know if I have advice. I feel like you guys have done it. You've already. You've made it. I mean, to be in this room is a super win already. I would say I have more appreciation. I'm sure you hear from your kids, but if it weren't for you, we wouldn't be here. We wouldn't be on these teams. And you know what? I just. As someone that had my mom supporting me, you know, it is. I feel so grateful to my mom every single day to give me this opportunity to believe in me, even when things were rough and things were down, to show up every day for me, you know, to be there when I didn't want to be there, to tell me to go an extra day when I didn't want to go, you know? So I think. I think all your sons can agree that they're super grateful for what you guys have done for them, because without you, they wouldn't be there. So I think you guys deserve a huge pat on the back, a huge round of applause, and so, so happy for the opportunity that you've given your children.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Serena Williams]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

And what's next for Serena in life that you want to share? Not trying to break news, just, girl, I'm just like, how you doing and what's going on? You got so much on your plate. What are you most excited about next?

[Serena Williams]

I'm most excited about, well, getting back to my girls.

[Michelle Obama]

Yes.

[Serena Williams]

And I don't know. I feel like there's. I have a lot of opportunities and just deciding which ones I want to go with and see how. In which direction I'm going to win.

[Michelle Obama]

Okay. That was a good way to not. That was a good way to absolutely say nothing.

[Serena Williams]

I'm healthy, so I'm just happy to be here.

[Michelle Obama]

You sure are. Girl, you look great.

[Serena Williams]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

You look great. Thank you, Serena. Thank you. Thank you for taking the time.

[Serena Williams]

Thank you so much. This was so fun. Thank you.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. Thank you for your honesty, your openness. Keep doing that. The world needs this information. They need to see their idols being normal human beings in the world, being grounded and protective of the people that they love. I am always proud of you. I'm happy to share this stage with you, and hopefully we'll do something again soon.

[Serena Williams]

Yes. Believe me, the pleasure was mine. I had so much fun. Thank you all for having me. Can we take a selfie before we go?

[Michelle Obama]

We can. I just to want. I want to say thank you to all the moms on behalf of this mom here. Thank you for your sacrifice, for your love, for, you know, setting the foundation for the next generation. It is the most important work that a person can do in life, I think, is to raise a decent human being. Because I think that if everybody took that job as seriously as everybody in this room, you know, we'd solve a lot of problems that way just by taking care of the people we choose to bring into this world. So we are grateful to you all. Sa.