Learn to Lead with Dawn Staley

Summary

Podcast Summary: IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson Episode: Learn to Lead with Dawn Staley
Release Date: August 13, 2025

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Introduction and Guest Background

In this enlightening episode of IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson, the hosts welcome Dawn Staley, the renowned head coach of the University of South Carolina Gamecocks women's basketball team. Dawn is celebrated not only for her exceptional coaching career, which includes three Olympic gold medals and induction into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame, but also for her impactful debut book, Uncommon Favor.

Dawn Staley’s Uncommon Favor

[03:35] Michelle Obama:
"Congratulations on your new book."

Dawn shares the inspiration behind her book, Uncommon Favor, which serves as a heartfelt tribute to the pivotal influences in her life—basketball, her mother, and her North Philadelphia upbringing. She emphasizes the importance of honoring those who shaped her journey, stating,
[03:50] Dawn Staley:
"It's a tribute to those three things. But everybody that played a role in it."

Leadership Lessons from Upbringing and Career

Michelle delves into Dawn's formative years, exploring how her disciplined mother and vibrant community fostered her competitive spirit and strong sense of camaraderie. Dawn recounts,
[05:11] Dawn Staley:
"I felt like I had everything. Like, I felt like I had a desire to compete. I felt like I had discipline in the household."

Dawn discusses her coaching philosophy, which centers on communication and character development rather than rigid rules. She emphasizes the significance of traits like punctuality and clear communication, noting,
[08:48] Dawn Staley:
"They're not like rules like be on time. That's a character trait."

Challenges and Growth in the WNBA and Women’s Sports

The conversation shifts to the landscape of women's professional basketball. Dawn highlights the disparity in salaries between the WNBA and NBA, reflecting on her early professional days when she had to juggle coaching at Temple University alongside her WNBA career to make ends meet. She candidly shares,
[14:14] Dawn Staley:
"I had to ask my mother, I'm a college graduate, to use her plug, right. To get me a job at his store."

Dawn also addresses the impact of recent Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) settlements on recruitment and player compensation, expressing both support and concerns about maintaining the balance between amateurism and player benefits.

Community Impact and Role in South Carolina

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Dawn's profound connection with the South Carolina community. She speaks passionately about overcoming historical and racial challenges to unite diverse groups through basketball, stating,
[30:16] Dawn Staley:
"It's bigger than the basketball is, actually bigger than the racism. It's bigger than the history. It's become something that I truly love about South Carolina."

Dawn reflects on the mutual support between her and the community, highlighting how her presence has inspired local youth and fostered a sense of pride and unity.

Listener Question: Navigating Leadership and Self-Doubt

A heartfelt listener question from Crystal in Dallas prompts Dawn and Michelle to offer valuable advice on staying grounded and leading with purpose amidst self-doubt and external pressures. Dawn advises,
[40:31] Dawn Staley:
"Sometimes there's a blessing beyond that, and it helps you figure out what your worth is."

Michelle reinforces the importance of believing in one's capabilities, emphasizing the mental aspect of leadership:
[43:52] Michelle Obama:
"You gotta stand in your strength and own it. And you can't start a new thing if you're questioning whether you deserve it."

Anecdote: Dawn’s Experience at a Criminal Trial

Adding a lighter yet intriguing twist, Dawn shares an unexpected personal story about attending a double murder trial in Columbia, South Carolina. Her fascination with real-life justice over televised portrayals is evident when she recounts,
[62:15] Dawn Staley:
"I went in and sat on just what I perceive as the defense side... so I was just like, what's up?"

This anecdote showcases Dawn's curiosity and her ability to find intrigue and lessons outside the basketball court.

Closing Thoughts

The episode wraps up with Dawn expressing her gratitude and commitment to her community, while Michelle lauds her courage and leadership. Dawn emphasizes the importance of authenticity and continual self-improvement, leaving listeners with inspiring takeaways on leadership, resilience, and community engagement.

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Notable Quotes:

• Dawn Staley [05:11]:
  "I felt like I had everything. Like, I felt like I had a desire to compete. I felt like I had discipline in the household."

• Dawn Staley [08:48]:
  "They're not like rules like be on time. That's a character trait."

• Dawn Staley [14:14]:
  "I had to ask my mother, I'm a college graduate, to use her plug, right. To get me a job at his store."

• Dawn Staley [30:16]:
  "It's bigger than the basketball is, actually bigger than the racism. It's bigger than the history. It's become something that I truly love about South Carolina."

• Dawn Staley [40:31]:
  "Sometimes there's a blessing beyond that, and it helps you figure out what your worth is."

• Michelle Obama [43:52]:
  "You gotta stand in your strength and own it. And you can't start a new thing if you're questioning whether you deserve it."

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This episode of IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson offers a deep dive into Dawn Staley's journey, leadership philosophy, and the broader context of women's sports, all while providing actionable advice for listeners navigating their own leadership challenges.

Transcript

[Dawn Staley]

I do watch sports, but I'm a little morbid. I like. Okay, I like crime.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, yeah.

[Dawn Staley]

You know I do. I like crime. Like if I could go in person to trials, like I went to a double murder trial in Columbia, South Carolina, just for fun. Yes. Like it's different. Like in, uh huh. TV does it no justice, y'. All.

[Michelle Obama]

It's like you want the real thing.

[Dawn Staley]

I want the real thing.

[Michelle Obama]

This episode is brought to you by Rivian and Chase Home Lending. How are you today, my brother?

[Craig Robinson]

I feel really good.

[Unknown]

You know, I had one of my colds recently, but I feel great now. I just needed a little sleep.

[Michelle Obama]

That's good. Too much running around following, chasing around.

[Unknown]

Those boys, those little boys tournaments, you know. It's really fun being an AAU coach.

[Michelle Obama]

Though, you know, our guest today is a big time coach. I'm excited to talk to her.

[Unknown]

But, you know, you know, before we bring dawn out, let me just tell you, I want to. You know, you and I both were gifted Rivians.

[Dawn Staley]

Yes.

[Unknown]

And let me tell you. So I've had mine for about. For a couple of months now.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown]

And it is now my primary car. Of course it's my primary car.

[Michelle Obama]

It is that blue. That is like the Rivian blue Spectacular blue.

[Unknown]

It is.

[Michelle Obama]

It should have a different name. Does it draw a lot of attention? What's the blue called that you have?

[Unknown]

Rivian blue. It's called Rivian blue.

[Michelle Obama]

So do your neighbors, like, see you coming?

[Unknown]

Oh, everybody sees me coming. And you know, we've now taken it on some further trips and the kids love it. You know, you can. They like to sit in the third row and put the second row down and sort of put your legs out. Yeah. When we go far places. But.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, I'm excited. I've tested it out. I have driven around the driveway. But I'm going to get out on the road this summer and it drives so smooth, so easy. I just, I really love the car.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

So I'm glad you're happy with yours and the family is settling in you as Rivian owners.

[Unknown]

We are.

[Michelle Obama]

Congratulations, my friend.

[Unknown]

So I am so excited about our guest today.

[Michelle Obama]

I am too. I really am. It's the first time I'm meeting coach.

[Unknown]

Well, we were fortunate enough to get coach Dawn Staley on ways to win.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown]

And she was fantastic. And she's done a lot for the coaching world. You know, she's done seminars for our national association of Basketball Coaches, which is the Men's Basketball Coaches Association. She's Done stuff for the Women's Basketball Coaches Association. The head coach of the University of South Carolina Gamecocks women's basketball team, a three time Olympic gold medalist and a Naismith Memorial Basketball hall of Fame inductee. And her debut book, Uncommon Favor, is out. Now please welcome our good friend, now I guess we can call her Dawn Staley.

[Michelle Obama]

Welcome, welcome.

[Dawn Staley]

Hey, Coach.

[Unknown]

Oh, wonderful to have you with us.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, my goodness. Well, welcome to imo.

[Dawn Staley]

Thank you.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, congratulations on the new book.

[Dawn Staley]

It's been a whirlwind.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. I can only imagine. And let's tell listeners when it came out.

[Dawn Staley]

Came out May 20th.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dawn Staley]

And when you write a book, you don't know how it's going to be received. Yeah. You're just writing it out of love, out of probably not wanting to forget. So you gotta put it down somewhere and then just. My mother. My mother was a big, big, big influence in my life. And I just kinda wanted to pay tribute to her. And the things that I say raised me. Like basketball raised me.

[Michelle Obama]

That's right.

[Dawn Staley]

North Philly raised me. And it's a tribute to those three things. But everybody that played a role in it.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. And I can imagine that it's well received because it's a beautifully written book. I was saying that your upbringing, your relationship to your mother, your feeling about your community, Philly, the neighborhood you grew up, it's so reminiscent of.

[Unknown]

Of how we grew up.

[Michelle Obama]

How we grew up. You know, my memoir, becoming. I understand that wanting to pay tribute to the people who brought you where you are. Talk a bit more about your. What it was like growing up.

[Dawn Staley]

I actually thought it was great. Like, I never had a care in the world. Like, I mean, my mother was a disciplined mother. So, I mean, I did have a care in the world when it was going against what she wanted. I did. But I felt like I had everything. Like, I felt like I had a desire to compete. I felt like I had a discipline in the household. I felt like I had friends who really, really understood and believed in friendship and camaraderie. I grew up in a neighborhood and like the projects, like, you would never know. Like the block that I grew up on, you would never know. It was low income housing and everything to do with manicure lawns. Like adults taking care of the neighborhood. Friends you can really count on. Like, you can have an argument with one of your friends and then the next moment you're playing basketball, baseball, football with them. And it didn't matter. It didn't lead to anything besides strengthening Your friendship and your trust. I mean, I wouldn't trade it for anywhere else, like, anywhere else in the country.

[Michelle Obama]

And I love the way you full throatedly embrace our communities because a lot of people out there have different views of what it means to grow up in a poor or working class minority area. They think it's all, is it sad, Is it hard, is it dangerous? You know, but you paint the real picture of what life is like for kids like us growing up. These are families. These are people who work every day. Right. How did your mother sort of help you find your way as the youngest, as a kid who was, you know, naturally shy and, you know, you know, speak about her and her. She sounded a lot like you, that she was attuned, she was a listener in order to raise y'.

[Dawn Staley]

All.

[Michelle Obama]

And while she was working, she had to be, you know, busy but keeping an eye out. Talk to us about how she helped you become who you are.

[Dawn Staley]

She helped me become who I am by not sparing a ride.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Dawn Staley]

And that helped shape me. And I feared my mother. Like it was. You didn't want to. You didn't want to break any rules. You didn't want to get sent home with a note. You didn't want to get suspended from school. So she shaped the discipline in me.

[Unknown]

So how have you taken that from your upbringing and implemented on your current players who were brought up differently than you were?

[Dawn Staley]

There's a lot of communication involved in it. Like, and it's a lot of inclusivity. Like, young people talk to their parents a lot. Like every day they do, which is.

[Unknown]

But they don't talk to each other.

[Dawn Staley]

No, but they talk to their parents. So I have to find a way to talk to the parents like me. Like, I forge that relationship with the parents. So if they're talking to their kids every day, I want my message being said to the kid like it is that way. And then I condition our kids to get an understanding of how I like to operate. Just clearly, it's not like I don't have team rules. They're just character traits.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Dawn Staley]

They're not like rules like be on time. That's a character trait.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, my God.

[Dawn Staley]

Communicate.

[Michelle Obama]

Can you say that again? That's a Robinson character trait.

[Dawn Staley]

It is.

[Unknown]

It is.

[Dawn Staley]

Being on time, it's not hard. So when they aren't doing those things, you just, you check them. Hey, you late today. Because it's their careers. It's not my career. I got a career. Like, this is what I do. And I try to tell young People that I've been coaching for 25 years and I have yet, like they're the same old recycle problems.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dawn Staley]

Like I want new problems. I want to solve some new problems. And it's just. And they won't, they won't say anything until it's too late or it could have been resolved in a five minute conversation. So I welcome young people to say it, to use their voices, because I know what using your voice does. It prevents you from being taken advantage of. It allows you clarity of what you like and what you don't like. I try to get them where most 50 year olds are.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Dawn Staley]

Because 50 years, when I turned 50, life cleared up for me. Like it's clear. Like if I don't like something, I'll let you know. Hey, I don't like that. Like everybody do.

[Michelle Obama]

Like, give them a jump start on it.

[Dawn Staley]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

Understand they can, they can start building this muscle earlier than we did. Because I feel the same way. You know, life got a lot better.

[Dawn Staley]

Peaceful. It's peaceful there. It really is peace. You're protecting your peace. Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

I'm listening to you talk dawn and I'm picturing little dawn on the basketball courts playing with all these boys. Right. And you know, I mean, it is rare for somebody to. And it's a blessing to find out early in life what you love and then be able to do it for the rest of your life and make a career out of it. It is a blessing.

[Unknown]

True.

[Michelle Obama]

And I would love to hear more about that.

[Dawn Staley]

Well, I would say this. When I was growing up, for me it was genderless. I was just playing. I didn't know I was a girl until they told me, go put a skirt on and go in the kitchen. I didn't realize that that's what it was, but I didn't care. They didn't know who my mother was. My mother's got the strength to 10 men and thick skin. So the name calling really didn't bother me after a while. At first it does.

[Michelle Obama]

It's like I'm one of five. I'm the youngest of five. Say something that'll make me cry.

[Dawn Staley]

Right. And then you gain the respect of the guys and then the relationship goes to, you're one of us.

[Michelle Obama]

But now with title nine and you know, girls, young girls. Cause I was a tomboy, you know, growing up as a younger with a brother, I did same thing. I was doing everything they were doing. They were boxing, I was boxing. We're playing piggy softball. I was out there. I was running track. I was gonna beat all of them. But I'm, you know, almost 10 years older than you, and the opportunities just like for you were even. It wasn't there for a girl who was a jock to be in organized sports. I spent a lot of time on the sidelines watching him play in leagues and going to his games because I didn't see girls doing any of that. And now that there are more opportunities for girls, I guess my question is, do you see the difference in female athletes who grew up in all girls sports? I mean, they've had it, they've been exposed to it, but because they had the opportunities, they didn't get the chance to, you know, play with the boys. Do you see differences now?

[Dawn Staley]

I do. I just see there's more opportunity for girls. Like, if I look at my team, probably over just my entire career coaching. Right. They've only known it to be a wnba.

[Michelle Obama]

Yep.

[Dawn Staley]

Only know they grew. They were born.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Dawn Staley]

So that's the carrot that's been dangled in front of them for all of their lives. So they, they play now. They participate. They, they play aau.

[Michelle Obama]

They see a future.

[Dawn Staley]

They, they see a future in it. Like in a future here in the States.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, I, I, I'm always curious, and I've met number of wonderful WNBA college female athletes in basketball, and I don't think people really understand how the path is so different, the fact that paid is so unequal, that the life of a professional WNBA player is so different. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about what it was like for you as a professional player? You know, because you could, you know, how did you make ends meet? You know, was that life difficult?

[Dawn Staley]

It was, I would say this. When I, when I graduated from College, graduated from UVA in 1992, my male counterpart was Shaquille O'. Neal. Right? Yeah, Shaquille.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, we know that dude.

[Dawn Staley]

Yeah. $80 million contract. Me, I'm sitting at home, and that mother that cleaned houses, cleaned a house for a man that owned a retail store. So I had to ask my mother, I'm a college graduate, to use her plug, right. To get me a job at his store. And I did retail for about three weeks. And then I'm like, this isn't for me. This isn't for me. Like, once I got that check, that check was like $227. And I'm like, for all that, all of that three weeks, right. So I was waiting to go overseas to play because at my height as a guard, they don't Want guards, they want bigs. So I went over to Segovia, Spain, in October of 1992, played for $35,000, which was decent for me. I didn't have a job.

[Michelle Obama]

It was more than the retail store, way more.

[Dawn Staley]

So I did that. And then 1990, I was playing for being an Olympian. Cause one of my lifelong dreams was to be an Olympian. Because I only saw women play on television two times. National championship and gold medal. And that's what I wanted. So I had to go overseas to play, to get more international experience so I can be ready the next time I try out for an Olympic games, which was 94. Ended up making the 96 team. And then from our year of practicing together in preparation for the 96 games, we knew halfway through that there was going to be a wnba. So we were like the guinea pigs to see if women's basketball could stand the test of time during that year. And then not only did the WNBA was birthed, so was another league, the ABL. So two women's professional leagues started in 96 and 97. So from 92 to 97, it was a struggle. Once I started in the WNBA, I was coaching at Temple University at the same time so I could make ends meet because I had a second job. The WNBA job was my second job.

[Michelle Obama]

But you had to have two jobs.

[Dawn Staley]

I mean, it's not enough for you to just take the paycheck and live year round.

[Unknown]

12 months.

[Dawn Staley]

Yeah. So you had to have supplemental income.

[Craig Robinson]

In this segment brought to you by Chase Home Lending, we're talking about something that hits close to home, literally. Moving, relocating, finding a place to settle, and how those journeys shape who we are. You know, Mish, you know, we've moved around a whole lot in our days from coaching. And what I remember that made home home was it didn't matter where we.

[Unknown]

Were as long as we were together.

[Craig Robinson]

You know, we had to stay in hotels, we had to stay on people's couches. We had to stay all over the.

[Unknown]

Place until we found a place to live.

[Craig Robinson]

But it didn't matter as long as we were together.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, I totally agree. You know, our biggest move in our little Obama family was our move from the south side of Chicago to the White House. Never thought we'd feel settled in that place, but what we realized is that as long as we had each other, we were home.

[Craig Robinson]

Thanks to Chase Home Lending for sponsoring this segment. Having the right support when finding a home is so important. And Chase Home Lending helps people at every stage of the home ownership journey. From first time buyers to. To those relocating for new opportunities, they are committed to helping people in all communities gain confidence in the home buying process. Because owning a home isn't just about having a place to live. It's about building a brighter future for you and your family. Ready to take that first step? Learn [e-mail] start member FDIC equal housing opportunity.

[Michelle Obama]

So are they going to compensate players for that loss of income? Is our salaries keeping up with this new requirement?

[Dawn Staley]

Well, I think the salaries now, and I don't. It is probably anywhere from 75,000 to maybe 250.

[Michelle Obama]

$250,000 compared to an NBA player.

[Dawn Staley]

Oh, there's no comparison.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. I just want the number. I want to say the numbers out loud so that we, you know, because the average NBA player is making millions.

[Dawn Staley]

It's millions.

[Michelle Obama]

Millions if they don't even get playing time. Right?

[Dawn Staley]

Yes. And I will say this in comparison to where the. Like, if we looked at the NBA in its 28th or 29th year, I think we're okay. Like, I think we're okay. How do we get it to.

[Craig Robinson]

It's on par.

[Dawn Staley]

Yeah, it's on par.

[Unknown]

To wear it. Okay.

[Dawn Staley]

But we want to see the near future of WNBA players being able to get a supermax contract. Like a. You know what I'm saying?

[Unknown]

I know exactly what you're saying. And it makes me think so, you know, like the NBA's been around for years and now the WNBA has been around for years. Not as many, but it's been around for years. What's made it so popular now?

[Dawn Staley]

Well, I think it's been popular. I think you have players like Caitlin Clark. She brings a lot of eyeballs to our sport. A lot of them. And so much so that now you're seeing the rest of the league and how good and talented our women are that represent the wnba. Like we played Caitlin Clark's Iowa team on national television in 2024, the highest ever. I think it tapped out at 24 million. Most watched game ever. Right. And I know a lot of people were tuned in to see Caitlin, but what they saw was a South Carolina team that was super talented, that that was on an undefeated run. And I know they walked into something that didn't really know what was about to happen. So I think it's cool that the new eyeballs are coming to our sport and they're seeing how very talented our players are. And is it somewhat controversy? Yeah, but what sport is it? I like the fact that we do have some controversy. It's A sport.

[Unknown]

I've always said that I watch sports not just for the reality of it, but I watch sports to root against the people who I don't like. And if there's no drama, there's no fun. And I love the fact that the WNBA has some drama now. And I think I've always said that it needed more drama, but I was getting to the fact that it feels like to me, college basketball has made the WNBA more popular. Now, with this new house settlement having come through, this is some very recent stuff, so I wanna get your attention.

[Michelle Obama]

Just quickly, just explain for those who may not know what NIL is, just quickly.

[Unknown]

For those who don't understand, name, image and likeness was the only way student athletes could get paid. And now with this new house settlement, as a result of some lawsuits, it is passed now that schools can actually pay a portion of the revenues they earn to the student athletes.

[Dawn Staley]

Yes. Well, first, first it'll be. The NCAA got sued for over $2 billion. So for the next 10 years, the athletes that opt into this. And you don't have to opt in, but if you opt in, you can get some of the, some of the money, settlement money, the settlement money, which is probably $20 million per school. But that doesn't, you know, that's football, that's men's basketball, basketball, and maybe sprinkling a little women's basketball in other Olympic sports.

[Michelle Obama]

How has it changed recruitment?

[Dawn Staley]

I mean, I mean it's, that's the difficult part because you know, the market, the market says that if you're a non contributor and you go into the portal and what.

[Michelle Obama]

So what does it mean to be a non contributor?

[Dawn Staley]

Like you don't play, okay, no playing time. You're leaving the school because you're not playing. You average two points, one rebound, right? They can go ask a school like us for $100,000.

[Michelle Obama]

Wait, how? What?

[Dawn Staley]

Yeah. Yes, easily. And it won't blink. And won't blink. Now if I entertain that they're going to take it to another school, hey, South Carolina's offered me 100 grand. You got 150. And it is just that. It's just that. So for us at South Carolina, I mean, we got a certain amount of money that we have to work with. And I don't over promise I stay within the budget, the revenue share budget that we have. And I do some innovative things as well to help our players out in this space. Like we play games for money and that money goes directly to our players, things like that. Now we have to go Away from our home, we gotta give up home games and play a lot of games on neutral sites in order for us to do that. But to stay in this space and to be competitive, you have to do some out the box things. Now understand, we lead the nation in attendance for the past 10 years. So to give up a home game might mean you're giving up some wins that you would have had at home.

[Unknown]

Some wins and some revenue.

[Dawn Staley]

Yes, and revenue. Yes. Yeah, yes, yes. But revenue for actually is not really. We probably lose a. We probably lose money hosting home games. Yeah, yeah. I mean the concession people make out, you know, but to put the. Turn the lights on and the.

[Michelle Obama]

How are the fans receiving it? The Gamecock fans, how are they feeling about the nil switch and players attitudes? Is there any pushback? Are fans supportive of athletes getting paid?

[Dawn Staley]

Yeah, I'm supportive of it. I really am. I think it's long overdue. Yeah, I do think it's out of control as well. So we gotta find a way to balance, to keep it an amateur sport while allowing young people to go out there and benefit from their name, image and like this. Because five years ago it was all the NC2A benefiting from and it didn't trickle down to the players. And now it's a waterfall down to the players.

[Michelle Obama]

Has it affected the locker room?

[Dawn Staley]

No, not. Knock on wood. I hope it doesn't. I think I'm clear. Like again, I'm clear. I think I do all my talking to the agents and this is what it is. And I tell our players too. I do make them sign NDAs about what they get.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, yeah, I do.

[Dawn Staley]

Now, whether they can stick with that or not, some of them get disgruntled and maybe transfer and just say what I was making and then it could stir up the pot. But I'm very honest and I'll tell them there's a reason why you get paid this and you get paid that. Right? And I'll explain that to them.

[Michelle Obama]

But the players don't need to be in the business of knowing what each other makes.

[Unknown]

But they'll find out. I mean, once you find out, they'll find out.

[Dawn Staley]

Some of them are represented by the same agent as well. That's helpful too. In that way they can help explain it because I'll give my message to the agent and the agent usually does a really good job because they have the same issue. If they get player X a deal for this amount, player B, who's their client, they get them for this amount and they find out they have the same issue, so they know how to handle that dynamic.

[Unknown]

Yeah. But, Don, we typically have a question from a listener that we want to answer. But before we get to that question, I have one more thing that you probably don't know this, that Misha and I's relatives are from South Carolina. Georgetown. Hawley's Island.

[Dawn Staley]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

Our father's side of the family. Our grandfather was born and raised.

[Unknown]

Yeah. And knowing that your mom was from South Carolina and dad. Yeah, and dad. I mean, you know, I mean, we might be related.

[Dawn Staley]

Hello. I think, perhaps.

[Craig Robinson]

But I.

[Michelle Obama]

We got the height, though.

[Dawn Staley]

You do. You do.

[Unknown]

Excuse me. That was good. That was good. You made me lose my train of thought. But, no, given the fact that they were from South Carolina, immigrated to Philly, and now you're back in South Carolina.

[Craig Robinson]

Talk about the feelings.

[Unknown]

The feelings you have being a successful coach in the state where your folks are from and your folks during a time when it wasn't cool to be down in that state if you were us.

[Dawn Staley]

It wasn't. And I think in the book, I mentioned that about my mother and why she left South Carolina. It was because the butcher was giving my mother some food that looked spoiled, and he wanted her to have that. And my mother wasn't taking that home. I mean, my mother had that in her at a very young age. And he said some things to her that. Which meant you got to get out of town. So my mother got out of town, and then, you know, my mother was in philly for over 50 years, and then I left to take the South Carolina job. And I'm like, you coming with me? And she was like, no, I'm not going back down there. But all of her siblings, like, my mother had, like, 16 siblings, so most of her siblings were still in South Carolina. Eventually she said, yes, but now to be in South Carolina, where, you know, I mean, South Carolina does not have a. They have a traditionally rich, racist history.

[Unknown]

Right, right.

[Dawn Staley]

And you feel that, like, when I first got there, coaches would recruit to that. Like. Like I really had something to do with that. I got. But now where I sit, you know, as a black woman, that makes a lot of money in that state. And some people agree with it, and some people, they don't agree with it. I've ingrained myself into the community. Like, the community and I are one. And I do think I say some things that maybe some of them don't like. But I do think the people in South Carolina, they judge me off of my life, not my resume. It's What I've been to the community because it's easy to fall in love with the success, and you get blinded by the success. But it's more of what I've given to the community and what the community's giving back to me. And to be in that community, to have a statue, to have a street named after me, it means a great deal. Because I meet some black people that said they couldn't. They couldn't walk on the campus, and they wouldn't until I got there. And they come to the games. And it's a myriad of people who. I mean, it looks like. I mean, if you look at the people that come to our games, it's a variety of people of all ethnic backgrounds just in unison on one accord that believe in one thing.

[Michelle Obama]

It's the best of this country.

[Dawn Staley]

Exactly. And I feel good about that. I know my purpose. I understand my purpose. Right. And it happened with my passion first, and then my purpose came after the passion, and then now the two are intertwining to create something that it's a model for other. Other states, like South Carolina, just kind of get behind and understand it's bigger than the basketball is actually bigger than the racism. It's bigger than the history. It's become something that I truly love about South Carolina.

[Unknown]

That's great.

[Dawn Staley]

We can be as one.

[Michelle Obama]

And it's a reminder of what is possible, you know, I mean, who we are really as people. You know, if we break through a lot of that history, you know, you. You are living through the fact that communities do want to be unified. It feels better not to have a segregated campus, to have to be in the gym together, all rooting for the same thing. And what you and your team and your games remind not just folks in South Carolina, but the country of this. It's the. It's what's possible. And so I applaud your tenacity and also your courage. Right. Cause it takes some courage to. You know, I mean, you weren't always the statue name street. You know, you came there as an unknown, and you had to build that from the ground up.

[Unknown]

And I gotta say that you could have gotten jobs anywhere. Yeah, you could have gotten jobs anywhere. You took the South Carolina job.

[Dawn Staley]

I did. I took the South Carolina job. Really? Not know. Well, I did know. Meaning. I used to visit family trips. Not in Colombia, more so in the country. Like in the deep country.

[Craig Robinson]

We know the deep country down there.

[Michelle Obama]

When you described it in your book, it's like, yes, that was summer.

[Unknown]

That was summer going down there getting eaten by mosquitoes and all kinds of meeting the cousins.

[Craig Robinson]

By now, viewers of this show know that I used to be a hotel guy. And I mean, I collected the points, the whole gamut, but now I'm an Airbnb guy. One of the biggest reasons I'm an Airbnb guy and is because I have four kids now, two of them have partners. So we're talking at least three rooms. If we go to a hotel, I can get a four room Airbnb and everybody can fit in the same place. We've got a family room we can get together in. We have a kitchen. You know, one of the best parts about it is we do a lot of laundry. And it's great.

[Unknown]

Cause you get to do you have.

[Craig Robinson]

A laundry room in these places. And what we've taken to now is ordering a place that has a pool. So if we are stuck at home, we have something to do. So when the Robinsons are hitting the road, especially with all of us, we're staying at an Airbnb. We've done it in Chicago, we've done it in Martha's Vineyard, we have done it in Washington D.C. we are done with hotels. We are Airbnb, folks. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Financial security isn't just about the here and now. It's about the future. That's why we love what Progressive is doing to help people attain, maintain and build wealth through home ownership. For over 80 years, Progressive has led with the belief that insurance should do more than just protect. It should propel people forward. Their commitment to not only helping more first generation homeowners stay protected, but also support communities through Progressive's Down Payment assistance program. The Up Payment program which will help drive real impact, making the dream of home ownership more attainable for everyone. You know, my wife Kelly and I are currently in the process of redoing our bathroom. We just started out and haven't done the demolition yet. But we know that this will add to the value of our house. So thank you Progressive, for helping families plan ahead and for sponsoring our show. Visit progressive.com OpenTheHouse to learn more. This episode of Imo is brought to you by Cologuard, a non invasive colon cancer screening test. As it stands, colon cancer is on the rise in people under 50, which is why the American Cancer Society recommends that if you're at average risk, you begin screening at 45. Even if you live a healthy lifestyle and don't have symptoms, no one is at low risk for colon cancer. We want to make sure our listeners know that colon cancer can be treatable in nine out of 10 people. But the key here is that it has to be caught early. With the Cologuard test, you can take control of your colon cancer screening through a prescription based test with none of the prep that's required of a colonoscopy. Not only is the Cologuard test effective for colon cancer screening, but it can even detect pre cancer. And in addition to its convenience, the Cologuard test is also affordable. Most insured patients find they pay nothing out of pocket with zero downtime, no special preparation and a screening test that's delivered right to your door. Don't let your health take a backseat. So if you're 45 or older and at average risk, ask your healthcare provider about screening for colon cancer with the Cologuard test. You can also request a Cologuard prescription [e-mail] podcast. The Cologuard test is intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Do not use a Cologuard test if you have adenomas, have inflammatory bowel disease and certain hereditary syndromes, or a personal or family history of colorectal cancer. The Cologuard test is not a replacement for colonoscopy and and high risk patients. Cologuard test performance in adults ages 45 to 49 is estimated based on a large clinical study of patients 50 and older. False positives and false negatives can occur. Cologuard is available by prescription only.

[Dawn Staley]

Which.

[Michelle Obama]

Is a good way to enter into the question from our listeners.

[Unknown]

We have been so you talk about being blessed. Our listeners give us some really good questions. And this question is from Crystal from Dallas.

[F]

Hi Michelle and Craig. My name is Crystal and I love your show. My question is about and for black people, especially black women who are navigating leadership roles in business, community or family. What advice would you give for staying grounded and leading with purpose, especially when facing self doubt or dealing with external pressures? I'm currently in the process of launching my own coaching and consulting business after being laid off for the first time from my corporate job. And I want to ensure I'm showing up authentically and confidently as an expert for my clients. And so any insights you have would mean so much. Thank you.

[Craig Robinson]

Okay, so the first thing I wanna.

[Unknown]

Pull from that question is, you know, she lost her job. That's a big, I mean, you know, I've been fired and it's a big hit to your ego. And what are some things, dawn, that you could give her to sort of pull herself out of. Out of that and sort of head back in the right direction?

[Dawn Staley]

I would say sometimes, whether you get fired or laid off or you leave. Right. I believe sometimes there's a blessing beyond that, and it helps you figure out what your worth is. Like, what you're worth. It makes you sit with yourself. And when you sit with yourself, everybody has doubts. Every single person has doubts. Right. Especially if you lose your job. And once, you know, once you get past that. Because when you're dealing with any kind of problem, there's an emotional part to it and there's a factual part to it, right? So once we deal with the emotions, the facts still sit right there with you. Right? And the fact is, you built some great habits. Like, you build some great life habits. You build some habits as a leader, you build some habits of being disciplined. You built some networking and friendship habits with people who you can call on to help you. You got some mentors, you got some sponsors in your life. It allows you to revert back to those habits. And a lot of times, once we get past the emotional part of it and we lock into the facts, and those are the facts, you're worth more than that. Understand? Unveil your worth. And sometimes you gotta utilize people to see that. And sometimes you gotta utilize your habits that got you to that place.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. And I hear Crystal, you know, I hear the remnants of, you know, imposter syndrome in the question, too, which I think we, as women, particularly women of color, you know, deal with. Because a lot of times you grow up with more what you can't do than what you can do. And I think, dawn, you and I were blessed with having parents who saw what we could do, and at least that voice was a founding part of our growth. So with Crystal, I would, you know, remind her. It's sort of like understanding the facts is that the facts are that, you know, she has to go into this endeavor understanding that she is capable and deserving of the blessings that are coming, you know, and that there are people with less talent, with less skill, less ability, who expect and achieve more just because their bar is higher for themselves. So, you know, it's the mental part of starting something new. There's a mental part to leadership. You gotta stand in your strength and own it. And you can't start a new thing if you're questioning whether you deserve it. And so breaking that habit, especially at a point where maybe she's feeling a Little down. Maybe she's feeling unsure of herself. Is like there is a mental component to success and leadership is that you gotta believe your hype, you know, and it ties into understanding the facts of your skills and owning that.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Now, you both are wonderful leaders and you've developed into leaders. Are there any leadership skills that you can share with Crystal that you've developed along the way that could possibly help her as she moves into this new endeavor?

[Michelle Obama]

Dawn, I heard you throw out a bunch of them just in this conversation and, you know, in just the first few chapters of uncommon favor you've thrown, you know, so, yeah, I mean, I.

[Dawn Staley]

Think one is Crystal has to find out who she is, and she knows. She knows she has to direct it back to who she is because, you know, obviously she had a job, right, with a skill set. And I don't know how long she had that job, but I'm sure the fact that she got the job, her skill set spoke to that. Right? And things change for one reason or another. Again, the blessing part of it just stay to who she is. Let that guide her like Crystal. Let it guide you. Let it guide you. You can't go wrong when it's you. You can't go wrong when you think you're doing it because somebody wants it done that way. So your way is your way. If that's the wrong way, fall on the sword knowing it was the way that you wanted it to go. A lot of times, though, your way won't let you down.

[Unknown]

So be authentic.

[Dawn Staley]

Be authentic. Oh, please, be authentic.

[Unknown]

And that brings me back to something else you talk about. See, my sister's always telling me that the men can't look inward as well as women can. So I'm working on myself every day. Look inside my brother, and I'm thinking about the times that I can admit where I've had self doubt. And it happens even in coaching, because you're responsible for the 15 players you have, but you can't control them. And when it doesn't work out, the first thing we do as coaches is what have we done wrong? And if. And I just want Crystal to understand that having a good team around you combats the self doubt. Because if you have the right team around you, your assistant coaches, your parents, the captain of your team sometimes comes back and says, hey, coach, I don't think we should run point screen away. I think we should run Chin. And you know, I don't think you're on, whatever that means. I knew.

[Dawn Staley]

Dawn, I'm right there with you. I knew dawn, but no, I'm right there.

[Unknown]

I did that on purpose.

[Dawn Staley]

But I'll say this. In my 20, and I just finished my 25th year of coaching, the best decisions that I've made was to hire somebody, somebodies that are much smarter than I am. Like, seriously much smarter than I am, more experienced than I am as a coach. Because it is. I don't know everything, but I want somebody in the room to know about it, to know we have to cover ourselves. So when I was the Olympic coach, head coach, we lost our first two games, exhibition games, one Australia, and the other one was the WNBA All Stars. I'm the black coach, first time black coach, right. So I experienced something I've never experienced in my life. Like, I was paralyzed. Like, what? I can't do this. And you feel the pressure because you gotta perform. You can't be the one that dethrones, you know, the success that USA has had. Right? So I lost sleep. I'm like. But also in the same breath, I just kind of exhaled and said, I have to do it my way. Like, I can't try to play all the players. Even though this is the first time that the entire team was together. I tried to figure out who we had, what the substitution patterns are. And it's a lonely place because the assistant coaches are trying to help and suggest and all of that. But the onus is on me. When it's all said and done, it's going to be me that failed or got the job done. So I just exhaled and I'm saying I'm going to do it my way. Like, if Aja Wilson is the player that I'm most comfortable with, well, I'm going to put her in the starting lineup and we're just going to. We're going to pivot and go from there. And that was just kind of my safe house and everything around that. I just said, okay, this is the decision I'm gonna make. But in making that decision, I actually talked to the players that I was taking out of the starting lineup to put Asia in the starting lineup. She met. She probably didn't like the conversation, but I was truthful and honest. Cause ultimately I just wanted her to be okay or be in a position where she can help us win a gold medal. And then the second thing I did was some of the players that younger players, it was their first time being an Olympian. I actually went to them individually and I said, hey, you may not play a whole lot this Olympic Games. I said, but I hope you Use this opportunity to learn. And if you ever want to be, have this experience again of being a two time Olympian or three time Olympian, then you have to learn this part of it. Don't let this be an opportunity that you're mad and you're in your emotions. You gotta learn. So I set them up to know that they may play or may not play, but I wanted them to be okay with it because I didn't want them to be the ones that would pull in somebody else that wasn't playing and say, you know, because in teams.

[Michelle Obama]

To start that little.

[Dawn Staley]

That. Yes. So just be clear, be unafraid. Crystal. To surround yourself with people who are smarter than you, that know a little bit more in different areas and you just be the conductor and you're just, you know, directing them as to what you need.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, and dawn, as you talked about communicating to the team members that weren't playing and realizing that that was as important as communicating to the starters, that makes me think of another piece of advice, which is, you know, as a business leader, as a leader, how you treat people, you know, how you treat your team, your client base, how you show up, you know, with truth, compassion, empathy, honesty, all of that absolutely matters. You are the leader. So you are modeling the, the mentality of the team, the project, the endeavor, you set that tone. So, Crystal, that means that you have to understand that as the leader, you can't show up half baked. When you're the team member. You can be a little raggedy sometimes, you can have a down day, you can come in slow, but when you're the leader, you know, every day you kind of got to be on your toes. And that's the. That, you know, that's what makes leaders great. That's what sets them apart. But it is a burden. And especially in business, she is setting the tone for the direction and the way her company is going to move.

[Unknown]

So, Crystal, this has been great. Really, this has been great. So some takeaways from Crystal for Crystal.

[Michelle Obama]

Cause my brother is the good. He's the good summation expert of it all. Cause we just talk and it's like, oh, yeah, what did we say to Crystal?

[Unknown]

I'm still coaching.

[Craig Robinson]

I'm still coaching.

[Unknown]

I'm still coaching. Even though I'm sitting here, I'm still coaching. So the first thing that Coach Staley talked about, Crystal, was habits. And I don't remember the number of the chapter, but Respect the Habits was my favorite chapter. That's a chapter in Uncommon favor, and that's Dawn Staley's. Book. So develop habits and stick to them. My sister chimed in with, know that you're capable. You both talked about this. Know that you're capable and and deserving. So that builds up your confidence. Be authentic. That's another one, one of my favorites. Surround yourself with great people and even some who might be better than you are, because we all need to be coached. We all need to be coached forever and ever. And dawn came back with, you've got to communicate as a leader. And this goes in to what Meesh summed it up with was, you can't be raggedy.

[Craig Robinson]

You can't be raggedy.

[Unknown]

You're the leader.

[Dawn Staley]

Absolutely.

[Unknown]

You're the leader. You can't be raggedy. And I mean, and this is for Crystal, but this is for everybody out there listening. These are leadership qualities and traits that everybody can take something away from and.

[Michelle Obama]

That can be powerful. Be powerful.

[Dawn Staley]

Crystal set straight. Yeah, she sat straight.

[Unknown]

This Back to School Season Spend less on your kids with Amazon I remember when my wife, Kelly and I would be running around to a million different stores chasing down spiral notebooks, lunchboxes, and that one specific calculator that somehow every math teacher requires. And look, I love my kids, but I do not love fighting over the last pack of highlighters in a crowded store at 7pm on a Tuesday. That's why I love Amazon. Amazon has everything for back to school backpacks, pencils, clothes, snacks, and even those dry erase markers the teachers secretly hoard. All delivered fast right to my doorstep. One click. No stress.

[Dawn Staley]

Boom.

[Unknown]

And the best part. I can shop from my couch with my now 15 year old and 13 year old. I grab their school supply list and I'm all set. Now instead of running around town stressed out, I get to actually spend the last days of summer with my kids. We're doing movie nights, bike rides, and even, dare I say back to school fashion shows in the living room. Parents, do yourself a favor. Go to Amazon. Get your back to school checklist done in like five minutes while saving a few bucks. So remember, with Amazon's low back to school prices, just spend less on your kids because every dollar you don't spend on them is a dollar you haven't spent on them.

[Craig Robinson]

This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. I love when things just work. No hassle, no confusion, just simple and seamless. That's exactly what I found with my Apple Card. Applying was unbelievably easy. I did it right from my iPhone, saw my credit limit offer and got approved in minutes. And because Apple Card lives in the Wallet app on my iPhone. I always have it with me. One of my favorite things, daily cash back. I mean, who doesn't love getting rewarded for what you're already buying? You can apply in the Wallet app on your iPhone and start using it right away. Subject to credit approval. Apple card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch terms and.

[G]

More at applecard.com August 2025 marks 20 years since Hurricane Katrina changed New Orleans forever. There have been many accounts of the storm's devastation and what it took to rebuild. But behind those headlines is another important story, the story that impacted the lives of thousands of children. That's why I'm excited to tell you about a new podcast. It's called where the Schools Went. Where the Schools Went is a new five part podcast hosted by former school principal Ravi Gupta. It's about what happened to the city schools when the levees broke and how it led to the most radical education experiment in American history. Where the Schools Went traces the decades of history before Katrina and how the high stakes decisions that followed Katrina transformed the entire school system. You'll hear from the voices of the people who lived it, from veteran educators who lost their jobs to the idealists and outsiders who all rushed into New Orleans, to the students and families who lived through it all. Whether you're a parent, an educator, or someone who cares about how communities and public systems can work together, where the Schools Went is a story that you need to hear from the branch in partnership with 74 and Midas Touch. Where the Schools Went is out.

[Michelle Obama]

Now.

[G]

Find it wherever you get your podcasts and start listening today.

[Unknown]

Now, before we go dawn, tell me the story behind your necklaces and bracelets.

[Dawn Staley]

Oh, okay, cool stories. Three years ago, when we won the national championship in 2022.

[Unknown]

I love the fact that you won so many that you just gotta. Which one was it?

[Dawn Staley]

22. Okay. I met this young girl with pediatric cancer.

[Craig Robinson]

Okay.

[Dawn Staley]

And I was with a company that I have a partnership with and they took me to just meet this young lady to give her this duck that does some incredible things. And then they took them through a scavenger hunt. And at the end of the scavenger hunt, they gave her her duck. And then they could, they could make necklaces for their ducks. So I sat with her and I used her color coordination of when she was making a necklace for her duck. And I, I wore it ever since because of strength. Like, she was sitting, we were sitting together. She has cancer. You would never know. Like, you would never know the strength that she sat with, that cancer with, her parents were just a little bit away from her. So I've worn this for three years.

[Michelle Obama]

Wow.

[Dawn Staley]

Later on, like, I did this in May. We were trying to win a national championship that year, the next year. And she actually sent another one. Cause this was getting real, you know, beat down.

[Michelle Obama]

She saw she needs another one. Let me help her out.

[Dawn Staley]

And then, you know, and then young people give me, you know, braces with grit, with uncommon favor, with a lot of. And I wear it until it pops.

[Michelle Obama]

My husband has the same thing Baraki has over the course of his first campaign. People will come and give them their lucky charms, you know, and it could be a rabbit's foot, a little, you know, Buddha or whatever it was. But so many people were praying for him and would give something precious to him. And he kept all those things. You know, he has a drawer full of them. And even to this day now, he takes a few of them every day and puts them in his pocket. You know, just a mix, you know, just in the same way. It's perspective, and it's a blessing. I want to ask one thing. What do you do for fun? You watching any? Do you like reality tv? Are you. I'm gonna say that because my brother. But, you know, what you watching?

[Craig Robinson]

She watches sports. That's reality tv.

[Dawn Staley]

I do watch sports, but I'm a little morbid. I like crime.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, yeah.

[Dawn Staley]

You know, I do. I like crime. Like, if I could go in person to trials, like, I would do a double murder trial in Columbia, South Carolina, just for fun. Yes. Like, it's different. Like, TV does it. No justice, y'. All.

[Michelle Obama]

It's like, you want the real thing.

[Dawn Staley]

I want the real thing.

[Unknown]

Like, this is morbid.

[Dawn Staley]

Like, and the courtroom was set up as such that, you know, it was the guy that was on trial, like, his section. Not even his section. Cause the courtroom was set up that way. And then the people who were actually experts were sitting on this side. So I went in and sat on just what I perceive as the defense side. Right. And then the guy looked back at me, and I didn't know what to do. So I was just like. Like, I just said, what's up? And I'm like. Cause I knew the judge. The judge told me. Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

I'm wondering, like, how do you get your trials?

[Dawn Staley]

It was actually the judge that did the Murdoch case. Wow. Judge Newman.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, wow.

[Dawn Staley]

He's a real good friend of mine. Okay. Like, so he told me he got a double murder case and come on down And I did four days.

[Craig Robinson]

I did take a lunch.

[Unknown]

Sunglasses or anything. You just sat in there?

[Craig Robinson]

No, I showed up like a regular person.

[Dawn Staley]

I did. And then I stayed. Like, I stayed until Thursday. It went four days. The jury were. They were deliberating. And then, I mean, I sat for a couple hours, like, okay, dawn. Then I was like, I gotta leave. Cause it's not. They're not gonna. And then it was like, you know, verdict's in.

[Michelle Obama]

So you. I mean, your heart lasted for the verdict.

[Dawn Staley]

I did.

[Michelle Obama]

Wow.

[Dawn Staley]

I did. Wow. It didn't work.

[Michelle Obama]

Was that the first of many criminal trials that, you know, I don't know how you have courts, Court tv.

[Dawn Staley]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

It's like, that's why you don't have any days off on your time off. You sitting in a courtroom. Courtroom.

[Dawn Staley]

But that. I mean, I walk like. I try to walk every day.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Dawn Staley]

It is a clear to air just.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, after a murder trial, you need to clear your mind.

[Unknown]

Are you a Dateline person?

[Dawn Staley]

Oh, yes. I'm on the unsolved nurseries.

[Michelle Obama]

You saw the Murdoch case, All of that? Yes, I did too.

[Dawn Staley]

Like, did you. I mean, it had me captivated. Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

All right, well, you know, I mean, respect like that. Don.

[Dawn Staley]

Thank you.

[Unknown]

Thank you.

[Michelle Obama]

We didn't expect that one.

[Craig Robinson]

We didn't expect that one. Thanks for sharing.

[Dawn Staley]

That's my next book.

[Michelle Obama]

Right.

[Dawn Staley]

Okay. Basketball Murder mystery. There you go. There you go.

[Michelle Obama]

Bestseller. Well, we know we've got a production company, so you could get the rights, turn it into a movie.

[Dawn Staley]

Okay. Okay.

[Michelle Obama]

All right. It's a deal. You heard it here first.

[Dawn Staley]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

Don, thank you so much. It has been a pleasure. Congratulations on all your success. And, you know, listeners pick up uncommon favor. It is an important read. It's a beautiful story about an amazing life and all the lessons you've learned from it. Worth. Worth a read for sure. And good luck on your book, book tour next season.

[Dawn Staley]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Michelle Obama]

Kill it.

[Dawn Staley]

And thank you for leading up front. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Craig.

[Unknown]

You are welcome.

[Craig Robinson]

Hi, Gretchen. Craig Robinson and my little sister Michelle here, we host a new podcast called IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson. We know you're the queen of giving advice, so we wanted to get a few tips from you.

[Michelle Obama]

You know, Gretchen, a lot of our listeners are going through some major life changes. What advice do you have for folks who are trying to stay grounded in the midst of. Of major life transitions?

[H]

Craig and Michelle, I am so happy to be talking to you. Here are a few questions that might help us gain perspective so consider questions like this. What activities take up my time but are not particularly useful or stimulating for me? Do I spend a lot of time on something that's important to someone else but is not very important to me? If I could magically change one habit in my life, what would I choose? And here's a question. Would I like to have more time in solitude, restorative solitude, or would I like to have more time with friends? You know, just thinking about questions like this can help us start to figure out how we might make our lives happier. With greater self knowledge, we're better able to make hard decisions that reflect ourselves our own nature, our own interests, our own values. In my own case, I have found that the more my life reflects my nature, the happier I get and the more grounded I feel when I'm going through a period of major change or transition.

[Craig Robinson]

For more great advice, search for Happier with Gretchen Rubin Wherever you get your podcasts.